Cyninja.2954 Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Airdive.2613" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Airdive.2613" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > Right now power / precision dose not differ from class to class making it a lot easier to balance with out taking away from a class hp / def would not be that one thing to make a class less of a class. If base hp is not as important then it should be no problem to standardize add a lot more room for classes and elite spec to be more different from each other with out braking the class. > > > > > > > > There are still glaring flaws in your reasoning. Listing just some of them. > > > > 1. Right back at the original topic: the power damage output **is** very much different between different professions, so why on Tyria should health pools and armor classes be equalized? > > > > 2. Base health is not important because you're expected to make full use of the available resources. A lot of different resources, not just your innate health and armor rating. Not every profession is equally good at standing AFK during combat, but them's the breaks, we want more different playstyles, not less. > > > > 3. Standardizing base health is clearly going to *decrease* build diversity while possibly breaking some professions (either thieves/mesmers or thieves/guardians/elementalists). > > > > > > It dose but only because of the class and how they must build. Though all dps class will do the same dmg in time. > > > > It does because of different coefficients. Your power can be the same as mine numerically, but you're not going to reach the same damage as mine when my output is 1.2x(power) and yours is 0.6x(power) **base damage, using the same gear prefix**. > > Again, what's your point? Do you want to normalize damage coefficients too, losing the clarity (harder to compare professions intuitively) and literally breaking half of the weapons of all professions? > > > > > Base health is very important for not getting one shot. > > > If your playing a class because of its base health only then your playing the class for the wrong reason. > > > > You're never getting oneshot in PvE if you're playing any build correctly, even berserker elementalist. And different health is an important balancing point in competitive game modes which you cannot take away without breaking half of the professions. > > If you're having trouble with the combat, though, you might want to learn to play or, indeed, build tankier. This is build diversity for you and the reason why people can play how they want. You're not being forced into anything by the game, so please stop imposing flawed changes on us. > > Coefficients are more base off of melee vs ranged and cd / cast times then hp / def. So you have some of the highest coefficients on the highest hp classes. The thing is over time they get nerfed and normalized because of classes doing to much dmg in pve with no though to there hp / def balancing. Simply put its out dated means of balancing and it needs to go away or at least be reduced. > > Its about 400 free vit from each hp level (4000 hp) its too much if it dose not mean any thing to class balancing. Yes on some level vit dose add more dmg all be it harder to pull off and yes it dose free up a class to build more glass in some game types. You keep talking about ranged and melee classes. Care to explain which classes fit in which distinction? Until you address the vast differences in class mechanics and defensive abilities, no one is going to agree with you in this thread. Those are the major influences on builds and stats run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted October 16, 2018 Author Share Posted October 16, 2018 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Airdive.2613" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Airdive.2613" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > Right now power / precision dose not differ from class to class making it a lot easier to balance with out taking away from a class hp / def would not be that one thing to make a class less of a class. If base hp is not as important then it should be no problem to standardize add a lot more room for classes and elite spec to be more different from each other with out braking the class. > > > > > > > > > > There are still glaring flaws in your reasoning. Listing just some of them. > > > > > 1. Right back at the original topic: the power damage output **is** very much different between different professions, so why on Tyria should health pools and armor classes be equalized? > > > > > 2. Base health is not important because you're expected to make full use of the available resources. A lot of different resources, not just your innate health and armor rating. Not every profession is equally good at standing AFK during combat, but them's the breaks, we want more different playstyles, not less. > > > > > 3. Standardizing base health is clearly going to *decrease* build diversity while possibly breaking some professions (either thieves/mesmers or thieves/guardians/elementalists). > > > > > > > > It dose but only because of the class and how they must build. Though all dps class will do the same dmg in time. > > > > > > It does because of different coefficients. Your power can be the same as mine numerically, but you're not going to reach the same damage as mine when my output is 1.2x(power) and yours is 0.6x(power) **base damage, using the same gear prefix**. > > > Again, what's your point? Do you want to normalize damage coefficients too, losing the clarity (harder to compare professions intuitively) and literally breaking half of the weapons of all professions? > > > > > > > Base health is very important for not getting one shot. > > > > If your playing a class because of its base health only then your playing the class for the wrong reason. > > > > > > You're never getting oneshot in PvE if you're playing any build correctly, even berserker elementalist. And different health is an important balancing point in competitive game modes which you cannot take away without breaking half of the professions. > > > If you're having trouble with the combat, though, you might want to learn to play or, indeed, build tankier. This is build diversity for you and the reason why people can play how they want. You're not being forced into anything by the game, so please stop imposing flawed changes on us. > > > > Coefficients are more base off of melee vs ranged and cd / cast times then hp / def. So you have some of the highest coefficients on the highest hp classes. The thing is over time they get nerfed and normalized because of classes doing to much dmg in pve with no though to there hp / def balancing. Simply put its out dated means of balancing and it needs to go away or at least be reduced. > > > > Its about 400 free vit from each hp level (4000 hp) its too much if it dose not mean any thing to class balancing. Yes on some level vit dose add more dmg all be it harder to pull off and yes it dose free up a class to build more glass in some game types. > > You keep talking about ranged and melee classes. Care to explain which classes fit in which distinction? > > Until you address the vast differences in class mechanics and defensive abilities, no one is going to agree with you in this thread. Those are the major influences on builds and stats run. What ever the class fills it roll at. If your doing border line no dmg or support from a ranged even if you are attking from a ranged dose not make you a ranged class. They are different but they reach the same goal and there no class in the game with out them and as time goes on more classes are getting more effects from other classes. I mean stealth alone use to be a 2 maybe 3 classes effect now its what 5 classes? The free 400 to 800 vit (from base) it just added def that is not needed for balancing at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Airdive.2613" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > @"Airdive.2613" said: > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > Right now power / precision dose not differ from class to class making it a lot easier to balance with out taking away from a class hp / def would not be that one thing to make a class less of a class. If base hp is not as important then it should be no problem to standardize add a lot more room for classes and elite spec to be more different from each other with out braking the class. > > > > > > > > > > > > There are still glaring flaws in your reasoning. Listing just some of them. > > > > > > 1. Right back at the original topic: the power damage output **is** very much different between different professions, so why on Tyria should health pools and armor classes be equalized? > > > > > > 2. Base health is not important because you're expected to make full use of the available resources. A lot of different resources, not just your innate health and armor rating. Not every profession is equally good at standing AFK during combat, but them's the breaks, we want more different playstyles, not less. > > > > > > 3. Standardizing base health is clearly going to *decrease* build diversity while possibly breaking some professions (either thieves/mesmers or thieves/guardians/elementalists). > > > > > > > > > > It dose but only because of the class and how they must build. Though all dps class will do the same dmg in time. > > > > > > > > It does because of different coefficients. Your power can be the same as mine numerically, but you're not going to reach the same damage as mine when my output is 1.2x(power) and yours is 0.6x(power) **base damage, using the same gear prefix**. > > > > Again, what's your point? Do you want to normalize damage coefficients too, losing the clarity (harder to compare professions intuitively) and literally breaking half of the weapons of all professions? > > > > > > > > > Base health is very important for not getting one shot. > > > > > If your playing a class because of its base health only then your playing the class for the wrong reason. > > > > > > > > You're never getting oneshot in PvE if you're playing any build correctly, even berserker elementalist. And different health is an important balancing point in competitive game modes which you cannot take away without breaking half of the professions. > > > > If you're having trouble with the combat, though, you might want to learn to play or, indeed, build tankier. This is build diversity for you and the reason why people can play how they want. You're not being forced into anything by the game, so please stop imposing flawed changes on us. > > > > > > Coefficients are more base off of melee vs ranged and cd / cast times then hp / def. So you have some of the highest coefficients on the highest hp classes. The thing is over time they get nerfed and normalized because of classes doing to much dmg in pve with no though to there hp / def balancing. Simply put its out dated means of balancing and it needs to go away or at least be reduced. > > > > > > Its about 400 free vit from each hp level (4000 hp) its too much if it dose not mean any thing to class balancing. Yes on some level vit dose add more dmg all be it harder to pull off and yes it dose free up a class to build more glass in some game types. > > > > You keep talking about ranged and melee classes. Care to explain which classes fit in which distinction? > > > > Until you address the vast differences in class mechanics and defensive abilities, no one is going to agree with you in this thread. Those are the major influences on builds and stats run. > > What ever the class fills it roll at. If your doing border line no dmg or support from a ranged even if you are attking from a ranged dose not make you a ranged class. > Except that beside some gimmick builds there is no pure ranged or melee classes in this game. > @"Jski.6180" said: > They are different but they reach the same goal and there no class in the game with out them and as time goes on more classes are getting more effects from other classes. I mean stealth alone use to be a 2 maybe 3 classes effect now its what 5 classes? The free 400 to 800 vit (from base) it just added def that is not needed for balancing at all. That is a very dishonest argument. You are basically saying that all class.mechanics and abilities are equally defensive when they clearly are not. Giving certain abilities or unique mechanics to other classes with a new elite specialization has no bearing on this if Arenanet factors that in which they have so far. Daredvil received a third dodge, Mirage is an evade master, firebrand is an aegis spamming machine. You keep ignoring the finetuning that goes into class mechanics not realizing that hitpoint pools are factored in to these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airdive.2613 Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 > @"Jski.6180" said: > Coefficients are more base off of melee vs ranged and cd / cast times then hp / def. So you have some of the highest coefficients on the highest hp classes. The thing is over time they get nerfed and normalized because of classes doing to much dmg in pve with no though to there hp / def balancing. Simply put its out dated means of balancing and it needs to go away or at least be reduced. So, in terms of damage output, should the thief's shortbow become as strong as the deadeye's rifle or should the thief's rifle become as weak as the thief's shortbow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted October 18, 2018 Author Share Posted October 18, 2018 > @"Airdive.2613" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > Coefficients are more base off of melee vs ranged and cd / cast times then hp / def. So you have some of the highest coefficients on the highest hp classes. The thing is over time they get nerfed and normalized because of classes doing to much dmg in pve with no though to there hp / def balancing. Simply put its out dated means of balancing and it needs to go away or at least be reduced. > > So, in terms of damage output, should the thief's shortbow become as strong as the deadeye's rifle or should the thief's rifle become as weak as the thief's shortbow? In some ways yes because of how much shorter of a ranged it is but dagger should be doing the most dmg on thf not realty a talk about that though. On another note support classes are hit by these hp / def different as well. You have some supports who are much more tankly the others making them far better at there roll of being a support for groups. It also free up the support classes who have higher base hp / def to go a bit more dmg throwing off the support / dmg roll balancing in this game more so then it already is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airdive.2613 Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 I hereby refuse to respond to this thread any more. It is a meme at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted October 19, 2018 Author Share Posted October 19, 2018 Its a good point to look at how much more classes hp differ then just def. The worst is 200 armor and 7k ish hp. That a big jump for points 200 armor is no where near as strong as 7k hp (700 vit). Armor is more in line with balancing but hp jumps are too much. The "free" hp should be on the same lines of "free" armor with the mid point being 15k hp only have 200 vit worth of hp (2k) variation both ways. So 13k for low hp and 17k for high hp. This will bring in line much more balancing that the free 4k ish hp swing that we have now with out needing to change dmg numbers as i suggested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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