Jski.6180 Posted October 13, 2018 Author Share Posted October 13, 2018 > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > Different classes have different hp but dont have different power. Look at any build web page its an easy way to get an ideal of how much of a differences there is and how you must build to make up for these differences. That not how balancing works your simply just trying to re-balances the game as a player though gear at that point and its never going to work out. > > There is much more to a build's effectiveness than just HP, Armor and Power. Different profession mechanics, traits, utilities, weapon skills and, perhaps most importantly, weapon coefficients, make a big difference. By your reasoning, Warriors should be kings of the game, as they have the best health pool and the best Defense stat from gear. However, if you look at _meta_ builds, they are either Bannerslaves in instanced PvE or Spellbreaker Boon Strippers in PvP/WvW. If they were top of the heap, you'd see more variety in Warrior builds at the pinnacle of the game's meta. > > The way balance seems to work in GW2 is that stats and base health/armor weight are static factors. That still leaves everything else as dynamic factors that the devs change as they see fit. That suggests that the devs do not see your point. To prove your point to where they might notice, you would need a lot more ammunition than you've provided. Necro is the king of the game and rev too. Its not about having the most hp / def its about having enofe hp / def with out needing to give up power. Living at 100 hp is no different then living at 5 hp your still alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > Different classes have different hp but dont have different power. Look at any build web page its an easy way to get an ideal of how much of a differences there is and how you must build to make up for these differences. That not how balancing works your simply just trying to re-balances the game as a player though gear at that point and its never going to work out. > > > > There is much more to a build's effectiveness than just HP, Armor and Power. Different profession mechanics, traits, utilities, weapon skills and, perhaps most importantly, weapon coefficients, make a big difference. By your reasoning, Warriors should be kings of the game, as they have the best health pool and the best Defense stat from gear. However, if you look at _meta_ builds, they are either Bannerslaves in instanced PvE or Spellbreaker Boon Strippers in PvP/WvW. If they were top of the heap, you'd see more variety in Warrior builds at the pinnacle of the game's meta. > > > > The way balance seems to work in GW2 is that stats and base health/armor weight are static factors. That still leaves everything else as dynamic factors that the devs change as they see fit. That suggests that the devs do not see your point. To prove your point to where they might notice, you would need a lot more ammunition than you've provided. > > Necro is the king of the game and rev too. Its not about having the most hp / def its about having enofe hp / def with out needing to give up power. Living at 100 hp is no different then living at 5 hp your still alive. Lol really, in which game modes? Better tell necro and revenant this on the forums, the majority seem to disagree. Also Revenant is medium hitpoints, the class you meant was warrior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted October 13, 2018 Author Share Posted October 13, 2018 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > Different classes have different hp but dont have different power. Look at any build web page its an easy way to get an ideal of how much of a differences there is and how you must build to make up for these differences. That not how balancing works your simply just trying to re-balances the game as a player though gear at that point and its never going to work out. > > > > > > There is much more to a build's effectiveness than just HP, Armor and Power. Different profession mechanics, traits, utilities, weapon skills and, perhaps most importantly, weapon coefficients, make a big difference. By your reasoning, Warriors should be kings of the game, as they have the best health pool and the best Defense stat from gear. However, if you look at _meta_ builds, they are either Bannerslaves in instanced PvE or Spellbreaker Boon Strippers in PvP/WvW. If they were top of the heap, you'd see more variety in Warrior builds at the pinnacle of the game's meta. > > > > > > The way balance seems to work in GW2 is that stats and base health/armor weight are static factors. That still leaves everything else as dynamic factors that the devs change as they see fit. That suggests that the devs do not see your point. To prove your point to where they might notice, you would need a lot more ammunition than you've provided. > > > > Necro is the king of the game and rev too. Its not about having the most hp / def its about having enofe hp / def with out needing to give up power. Living at 100 hp is no different then living at 5 hp your still alive. > > Lol really, in which game modes? > > Better tell necro and revenant this on the forums, the majority seem to disagree. > > Also Revenant is medium hitpoints, the class you meant was warrior. Every one thinks there classes they are playing is not broken lol so always. Just enofe hp and def is what you need. Rev doing high dmg from from far away with mid armor and high def is a problem. As for necro the issues is high hp doing high dmg. Give rev low hp and see how they play give necro lower hp see how they play. The power is the same as well as the precision so it should not effect balancing at all and THAT is the problem. If pve and your never getting hit the hp / def should not mean a thing in your point of view its only pvp where these things are important. Its kind of silly to try to invalidate every thing in pvp because of pve i know a lot of ppl try to make this type of argument. As for warrior its not a problem yet but once they get a real dmg elite spec at a ranged it will be a big problem so these things should be looked at before it becomes a balancing nightmare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airdive.2613 Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 > @"Jski.6180" said: > Give rev low hp and see how they play give necro lower hp see how they play. Now you are literally saying the professions *are* balanced with different health pools and armor classes in mind. If there are differences, they are by design. Also, there's no need to have different power levels at all. Every individual weapon's damage modifiers are already different. Why would you care about your tanky opponent having the same power as you if it turns out your actual damage is 0.7 of your power and your enemy's is 0.4 of theirs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > Different classes have different hp but dont have different power. Look at any build web page its an easy way to get an ideal of how much of a differences there is and how you must build to make up for these differences. That not how balancing works your simply just trying to re-balances the game as a player though gear at that point and its never going to work out. > > > > > > > > There is much more to a build's effectiveness than just HP, Armor and Power. Different profession mechanics, traits, utilities, weapon skills and, perhaps most importantly, weapon coefficients, make a big difference. By your reasoning, Warriors should be kings of the game, as they have the best health pool and the best Defense stat from gear. However, if you look at _meta_ builds, they are either Bannerslaves in instanced PvE or Spellbreaker Boon Strippers in PvP/WvW. If they were top of the heap, you'd see more variety in Warrior builds at the pinnacle of the game's meta. > > > > > > > > The way balance seems to work in GW2 is that stats and base health/armor weight are static factors. That still leaves everything else as dynamic factors that the devs change as they see fit. That suggests that the devs do not see your point. To prove your point to where they might notice, you would need a lot more ammunition than you've provided. > > > > > > Necro is the king of the game and rev too. Its not about having the most hp / def its about having enofe hp / def with out needing to give up power. Living at 100 hp is no different then living at 5 hp your still alive. > > > > Lol really, in which game modes? > > > > Better tell necro and revenant this on the forums, the majority seem to disagree. > > > > Also Revenant is medium hitpoints, the class you meant was warrior. > > Every one thinks there classes they are playing is not broken lol so always. Just enofe hp and def is what you need. Rev doing high dmg from from far away with mid armor and high def is a problem. As for necro the issues is high hp doing high dmg. > > Give rev low hp and see how they play give necro lower hp see how they play. The power is the same as well as the precision so it should not effect balancing at all and THAT is the problem. If pve and your never getting hit the hp / def should not mean a thing in your point of view its only pvp where these things are important. > > Its kind of silly to try to invalidate every thing in pvp because of pve i know a lot of ppl try to make this type of argument. > > As for warrior its not a problem yet but once they get a real dmg elite spec at a ranged it will be a big problem so these things should be looked at before it becomes a balancing nightmare. Mate honestly, please get some experience in the game. The amount of nonsense you are bringing is cringe worthy. Warrior is probably the closest class to being overpowered or always desired in all game modes over an extended period of time. Warrior as of now and ever since Hot has had 2, now 1, guaranteed raid spots due to banners. They have excellent condition and power damage builds. Spellbreaker in WvW was completely overpowered and even after severe nerfs is still a very strong build. All unrelated to the warriors high hitpoint pool or armor. What is evident so far, you have none or near no experience in: - raids - fractals - WvW Just let it be. You are just making yourself look silly at this point to any player with experience in any of these game modes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted October 13, 2018 Author Share Posted October 13, 2018 > @"Airdive.2613" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > Give rev low hp and see how they play give necro lower hp see how they play. > > Now you are literally saying the professions *are* balanced with different health pools and armor classes in mind. If there are differences, they are by design. > Also, there's no need to have different power levels at all. Every individual weapon's damage modifiers are already different. Why would you care about your tanky opponent having the same power as you if it turns out your actual damage is 0.7 of your power and your enemy's is 0.4 of theirs? I am saying they are not balanced as is because of there hp and there ability to attk at a ranged. If you cut there hp they will be more balanced for there ranged and dmg. Modifiers will be normalized all dmg will its just a factor of time. > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > Different classes have different hp but dont have different power. Look at any build web page its an easy way to get an ideal of how much of a differences there is and how you must build to make up for these differences. That not how balancing works your simply just trying to re-balances the game as a player though gear at that point and its never going to work out. > > > > > > > > > > There is much more to a build's effectiveness than just HP, Armor and Power. Different profession mechanics, traits, utilities, weapon skills and, perhaps most importantly, weapon coefficients, make a big difference. By your reasoning, Warriors should be kings of the game, as they have the best health pool and the best Defense stat from gear. However, if you look at _meta_ builds, they are either Bannerslaves in instanced PvE or Spellbreaker Boon Strippers in PvP/WvW. If they were top of the heap, you'd see more variety in Warrior builds at the pinnacle of the game's meta. > > > > > > > > > > The way balance seems to work in GW2 is that stats and base health/armor weight are static factors. That still leaves everything else as dynamic factors that the devs change as they see fit. That suggests that the devs do not see your point. To prove your point to where they might notice, you would need a lot more ammunition than you've provided. > > > > > > > > Necro is the king of the game and rev too. Its not about having the most hp / def its about having enofe hp / def with out needing to give up power. Living at 100 hp is no different then living at 5 hp your still alive. > > > > > > Lol really, in which game modes? > > > > > > Better tell necro and revenant this on the forums, the majority seem to disagree. > > > > > > Also Revenant is medium hitpoints, the class you meant was warrior. > > > > Every one thinks there classes they are playing is not broken lol so always. Just enofe hp and def is what you need. Rev doing high dmg from from far away with mid armor and high def is a problem. As for necro the issues is high hp doing high dmg. > > > > Give rev low hp and see how they play give necro lower hp see how they play. The power is the same as well as the precision so it should not effect balancing at all and THAT is the problem. If pve and your never getting hit the hp / def should not mean a thing in your point of view its only pvp where these things are important. > > > > Its kind of silly to try to invalidate every thing in pvp because of pve i know a lot of ppl try to make this type of argument. > > > > As for warrior its not a problem yet but once they get a real dmg elite spec at a ranged it will be a big problem so these things should be looked at before it becomes a balancing nightmare. > > Mate honestly, please get some experience in the game. The amount of nonsense you are bringing is cringe worthy. > > Warrior is probably the closest class to being overpowered or always desired in all game modes over an extended period of time. > > Warrior as of now and ever since Hot has had 2, now 1, guaranteed raid spots due to banners. They have excellent condition and power damage builds. > > Spellbreaker in WvW was completely overpowered and even after severe nerfs is still a very strong build. All unrelated to the warriors high hitpoint pool or armor. > > What is evident so far, you have none or near no experience in: > - raids > - fractals > - WvW > > Just let it be. You are just making yourself look silly at this point to any player with experience in any of these game modes. If you must know wvw and "old" pve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Airdive.2613" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > Give rev low hp and see how they play give necro lower hp see how they play. > > > > Now you are literally saying the professions *are* balanced with different health pools and armor classes in mind. If there are differences, they are by design. > > Also, there's no need to have different power levels at all. Every individual weapon's damage modifiers are already different. Why would you care about your tanky opponent having the same power as you if it turns out your actual damage is 0.7 of your power and your enemy's is 0.4 of theirs? > > I am saying they are not balanced as is because of there hp and there ability to attk at a ranged. If you cut there hp they will be more balanced for there ranged and dmg. Modifiers will be normalized all dmg will its just a factor of time. > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Different classes have different hp but dont have different power. Look at any build web page its an easy way to get an ideal of how much of a differences there is and how you must build to make up for these differences. That not how balancing works your simply just trying to re-balances the game as a player though gear at that point and its never going to work out. > > > > > > > > > > > > There is much more to a build's effectiveness than just HP, Armor and Power. Different profession mechanics, traits, utilities, weapon skills and, perhaps most importantly, weapon coefficients, make a big difference. By your reasoning, Warriors should be kings of the game, as they have the best health pool and the best Defense stat from gear. However, if you look at _meta_ builds, they are either Bannerslaves in instanced PvE or Spellbreaker Boon Strippers in PvP/WvW. If they were top of the heap, you'd see more variety in Warrior builds at the pinnacle of the game's meta. > > > > > > > > > > > > The way balance seems to work in GW2 is that stats and base health/armor weight are static factors. That still leaves everything else as dynamic factors that the devs change as they see fit. That suggests that the devs do not see your point. To prove your point to where they might notice, you would need a lot more ammunition than you've provided. > > > > > > > > > > Necro is the king of the game and rev too. Its not about having the most hp / def its about having enofe hp / def with out needing to give up power. Living at 100 hp is no different then living at 5 hp your still alive. > > > > > > > > Lol really, in which game modes? > > > > > > > > Better tell necro and revenant this on the forums, the majority seem to disagree. > > > > > > > > Also Revenant is medium hitpoints, the class you meant was warrior. > > > > > > Every one thinks there classes they are playing is not broken lol so always. Just enofe hp and def is what you need. Rev doing high dmg from from far away with mid armor and high def is a problem. As for necro the issues is high hp doing high dmg. > > > > > > Give rev low hp and see how they play give necro lower hp see how they play. The power is the same as well as the precision so it should not effect balancing at all and THAT is the problem. If pve and your never getting hit the hp / def should not mean a thing in your point of view its only pvp where these things are important. > > > > > > Its kind of silly to try to invalidate every thing in pvp because of pve i know a lot of ppl try to make this type of argument. > > > > > > As for warrior its not a problem yet but once they get a real dmg elite spec at a ranged it will be a big problem so these things should be looked at before it becomes a balancing nightmare. > > > > Mate honestly, please get some experience in the game. The amount of nonsense you are bringing is cringe worthy. > > > > Warrior is probably the closest class to being overpowered or always desired in all game modes over an extended period of time. > > > > Warrior as of now and ever since Hot has had 2, now 1, guaranteed raid spots due to banners. They have excellent condition and power damage builds. > > > > Spellbreaker in WvW was completely overpowered and even after severe nerfs is still a very strong build. All unrelated to the warriors high hitpoint pool or armor. > > > > What is evident so far, you have none or near no experience in: > > - raids > > - fractals > > - WvW > > > > Just let it be. You are just making yourself look silly at this point to any player with experience in any of these game modes. > > If you must know wvw and "old" pve. So you know that during vanilla 4xwarrior and 1 Mesmer was meta for dungeons. Necro was absolutely shunned in all pve content. WvW was Guardians first with thief's and warriors roaming. So what are you talking about necro and revenant being king's? Revenant was semi desired in WvW right after HoT beore their Hammer was nerfed shortly after, that was a long time ago. Necro has been strong in WvW due to it's range condi pressure and only condi builds in vanilla (and condi requiring less stats for damage allowing for toughness easier to get splashed in). With Scourge Aoe taking over in PoF. None of those things were influenced by hitpoint pools or armor in any major way. You are way out of touch with the game. These things are minor issues and have near no effect on gear used currently and in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airdive.2613 Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Airdive.2613" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > Give rev low hp and see how they play give necro lower hp see how they play. > > > > Now you are literally saying the professions *are* balanced with different health pools and armor classes in mind. If there are differences, they are by design. > > Also, there's no need to have different power levels at all. Every individual weapon's damage modifiers are already different. Why would you care about your tanky opponent having the same power as you if it turns out your actual damage is 0.7 of your power and your enemy's is 0.4 of theirs? > > I am saying they are not balanced as is because of there hp and there ability to attk at a ranged. If you cut there hp they will be more balanced for there ranged and dmg. Modifiers will be normalized all dmg will its just a factor of time. Are you seriously trying to imply necromancers and warriors (highest health pools) have strong ranged attacks right now? The health and armor difference is there to define professions' resilience to either power or condition damage types. It has nothing to do with the damage in any way, it rather defines interaction with the same profession's active defenses (whether you are better at facetanking, self-healing or disengaging). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted October 13, 2018 Author Share Posted October 13, 2018 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Airdive.2613" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > Give rev low hp and see how they play give necro lower hp see how they play. > > > > > > Now you are literally saying the professions *are* balanced with different health pools and armor classes in mind. If there are differences, they are by design. > > > Also, there's no need to have different power levels at all. Every individual weapon's damage modifiers are already different. Why would you care about your tanky opponent having the same power as you if it turns out your actual damage is 0.7 of your power and your enemy's is 0.4 of theirs? > > > > I am saying they are not balanced as is because of there hp and there ability to attk at a ranged. If you cut there hp they will be more balanced for there ranged and dmg. Modifiers will be normalized all dmg will its just a factor of time. > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Different classes have different hp but dont have different power. Look at any build web page its an easy way to get an ideal of how much of a differences there is and how you must build to make up for these differences. That not how balancing works your simply just trying to re-balances the game as a player though gear at that point and its never going to work out. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is much more to a build's effectiveness than just HP, Armor and Power. Different profession mechanics, traits, utilities, weapon skills and, perhaps most importantly, weapon coefficients, make a big difference. By your reasoning, Warriors should be kings of the game, as they have the best health pool and the best Defense stat from gear. However, if you look at _meta_ builds, they are either Bannerslaves in instanced PvE or Spellbreaker Boon Strippers in PvP/WvW. If they were top of the heap, you'd see more variety in Warrior builds at the pinnacle of the game's meta. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The way balance seems to work in GW2 is that stats and base health/armor weight are static factors. That still leaves everything else as dynamic factors that the devs change as they see fit. That suggests that the devs do not see your point. To prove your point to where they might notice, you would need a lot more ammunition than you've provided. > > > > > > > > > > > > Necro is the king of the game and rev too. Its not about having the most hp / def its about having enofe hp / def with out needing to give up power. Living at 100 hp is no different then living at 5 hp your still alive. > > > > > > > > > > Lol really, in which game modes? > > > > > > > > > > Better tell necro and revenant this on the forums, the majority seem to disagree. > > > > > > > > > > Also Revenant is medium hitpoints, the class you meant was warrior. > > > > > > > > Every one thinks there classes they are playing is not broken lol so always. Just enofe hp and def is what you need. Rev doing high dmg from from far away with mid armor and high def is a problem. As for necro the issues is high hp doing high dmg. > > > > > > > > Give rev low hp and see how they play give necro lower hp see how they play. The power is the same as well as the precision so it should not effect balancing at all and THAT is the problem. If pve and your never getting hit the hp / def should not mean a thing in your point of view its only pvp where these things are important. > > > > > > > > Its kind of silly to try to invalidate every thing in pvp because of pve i know a lot of ppl try to make this type of argument. > > > > > > > > As for warrior its not a problem yet but once they get a real dmg elite spec at a ranged it will be a big problem so these things should be looked at before it becomes a balancing nightmare. > > > > > > Mate honestly, please get some experience in the game. The amount of nonsense you are bringing is cringe worthy. > > > > > > Warrior is probably the closest class to being overpowered or always desired in all game modes over an extended period of time. > > > > > > Warrior as of now and ever since Hot has had 2, now 1, guaranteed raid spots due to banners. They have excellent condition and power damage builds. > > > > > > Spellbreaker in WvW was completely overpowered and even after severe nerfs is still a very strong build. All unrelated to the warriors high hitpoint pool or armor. > > > > > > What is evident so far, you have none or near no experience in: > > > - raids > > > - fractals > > > - WvW > > > > > > Just let it be. You are just making yourself look silly at this point to any player with experience in any of these game modes. > > > > If you must know wvw and "old" pve. > > So you know that during vanilla 4xwarrior and 1 Mesmer was meta for dungeons. Necro was absolutely shunned in all pve content. > > WvW was Guardians first with thief's and warriors roaming. > > So what are you talking about necro and revenant being king's? > > Revenant was semi desired in WvW right after HoT beore their Hammer was nerfed shortly after, that was a long time ago. Necro has been strong in WvW due to it's range condi pressure and only condi builds in vanilla (and condi requiring less stats for damage allowing for toughness easier to get splashed in). With Scourge Aoe taking over in PoF. > > None of those things were influenced by hitpoint pools or armor in any major way. > > You are way out of touch with the game. > > These things are minor issues and have near no effect on gear used currently and in the past. Eles did it better with FG in pve. Stab was not an on and off swich as there was far less hard cc back then. Rev has the best of all worlds flexibility of skills with its ability to swap its "atuments" powerful ranged burst strong condi dmg and strong fast hits. On-top of strong boons and the hp / def to boot with out the lost of any power. Necro is strong because of its eliet spec as its still high hp that can be both a support and strong burst dmg at both melee and long ranged all that is unblockable and impossible to support vs. But this is not a talk about each class this is a talk about how hp / def variation with out power / precision and how this is both a problem now and a problem going forward. > @"Airdive.2613" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Airdive.2613" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > Give rev low hp and see how they play give necro lower hp see how they play. > > > > > > Now you are literally saying the professions *are* balanced with different health pools and armor classes in mind. If there are differences, they are by design. > > > Also, there's no need to have different power levels at all. Every individual weapon's damage modifiers are already different. Why would you care about your tanky opponent having the same power as you if it turns out your actual damage is 0.7 of your power and your enemy's is 0.4 of theirs? > > > > I am saying they are not balanced as is because of there hp and there ability to attk at a ranged. If you cut there hp they will be more balanced for there ranged and dmg. Modifiers will be normalized all dmg will its just a factor of time. > > Are you seriously trying to imply necromancers and warriors (highest health pools) have strong ranged attacks right now? > > The health and armor difference is there to define professions' resilience to either power or condition damage types. It has nothing to do with the damage in any way, it rather defines interaction with the same profession's active defenses (whether you are better at facetanking, self-healing or disengaging). Necromancers yes warriors not yet. Relay confused why war keeps coming up when i been talking about rev. Why is hp / def the only effects that are different i mean each classes use them different to some point and the same can be said each class use power / precision different as well but for some reason it dose not vary too? Its just not good to balance that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Airdive.2613" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > Give rev low hp and see how they play give necro lower hp see how they play. > > > > > > > > Now you are literally saying the professions *are* balanced with different health pools and armor classes in mind. If there are differences, they are by design. > > > > Also, there's no need to have different power levels at all. Every individual weapon's damage modifiers are already different. Why would you care about your tanky opponent having the same power as you if it turns out your actual damage is 0.7 of your power and your enemy's is 0.4 of theirs? > > > > > > I am saying they are not balanced as is because of there hp and there ability to attk at a ranged. If you cut there hp they will be more balanced for there ranged and dmg. Modifiers will be normalized all dmg will its just a factor of time. > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Different classes have different hp but dont have different power. Look at any build web page its an easy way to get an ideal of how much of a differences there is and how you must build to make up for these differences. That not how balancing works your simply just trying to re-balances the game as a player though gear at that point and its never going to work out. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is much more to a build's effectiveness than just HP, Armor and Power. Different profession mechanics, traits, utilities, weapon skills and, perhaps most importantly, weapon coefficients, make a big difference. By your reasoning, Warriors should be kings of the game, as they have the best health pool and the best Defense stat from gear. However, if you look at _meta_ builds, they are either Bannerslaves in instanced PvE or Spellbreaker Boon Strippers in PvP/WvW. If they were top of the heap, you'd see more variety in Warrior builds at the pinnacle of the game's meta. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The way balance seems to work in GW2 is that stats and base health/armor weight are static factors. That still leaves everything else as dynamic factors that the devs change as they see fit. That suggests that the devs do not see your point. To prove your point to where they might notice, you would need a lot more ammunition than you've provided. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Necro is the king of the game and rev too. Its not about having the most hp / def its about having enofe hp / def with out needing to give up power. Living at 100 hp is no different then living at 5 hp your still alive. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol really, in which game modes? > > > > > > > > > > > > Better tell necro and revenant this on the forums, the majority seem to disagree. > > > > > > > > > > > > Also Revenant is medium hitpoints, the class you meant was warrior. > > > > > > > > > > Every one thinks there classes they are playing is not broken lol so always. Just enofe hp and def is what you need. Rev doing high dmg from from far away with mid armor and high def is a problem. As for necro the issues is high hp doing high dmg. > > > > > > > > > > Give rev low hp and see how they play give necro lower hp see how they play. The power is the same as well as the precision so it should not effect balancing at all and THAT is the problem. If pve and your never getting hit the hp / def should not mean a thing in your point of view its only pvp where these things are important. > > > > > > > > > > Its kind of silly to try to invalidate every thing in pvp because of pve i know a lot of ppl try to make this type of argument. > > > > > > > > > > As for warrior its not a problem yet but once they get a real dmg elite spec at a ranged it will be a big problem so these things should be looked at before it becomes a balancing nightmare. > > > > > > > > Mate honestly, please get some experience in the game. The amount of nonsense you are bringing is cringe worthy. > > > > > > > > Warrior is probably the closest class to being overpowered or always desired in all game modes over an extended period of time. > > > > > > > > Warrior as of now and ever since Hot has had 2, now 1, guaranteed raid spots due to banners. They have excellent condition and power damage builds. > > > > > > > > Spellbreaker in WvW was completely overpowered and even after severe nerfs is still a very strong build. All unrelated to the warriors high hitpoint pool or armor. > > > > > > > > What is evident so far, you have none or near no experience in: > > > > - raids > > > > - fractals > > > > - WvW > > > > > > > > Just let it be. You are just making yourself look silly at this point to any player with experience in any of these game modes. > > > > > > If you must know wvw and "old" pve. > > > > So you know that during vanilla 4xwarrior and 1 Mesmer was meta for dungeons. Necro was absolutely shunned in all pve content. > > > > WvW was Guardians first with thief's and warriors roaming. > > > > So what are you talking about necro and revenant being king's? > > > > Revenant was semi desired in WvW right after HoT beore their Hammer was nerfed shortly after, that was a long time ago. Necro has been strong in WvW due to it's range condi pressure and only condi builds in vanilla (and condi requiring less stats for damage allowing for toughness easier to get splashed in). With Scourge Aoe taking over in PoF. > > > > None of those things were influenced by hitpoint pools or armor in any major way. > > > > You are way out of touch with the game. > > > > These things are minor issues and have near no effect on gear used currently and in the past. > > Eles did it better with FG in pve. > and how does that fit your theory that low hitpoint classes are disadvantaged? Ele only worked until FGS was nerfed and even until then the majority still ran 4xwarrior,even 5xwarrior towards the end. > @"Jski.6180" said: > Stab was not an on and off swich as there was far less hard cc back then. > > Rev has the best of all worlds flexibility of skills with its ability to swap its "atuments" powerful ranged burst strong condi dmg and strong fast hits. On-top of strong boons and the hp / def to boot with out the lost of any power. How does this in any way support that hitpoints or armor are advantaging this class even if I was to agree (which I am not since Revenant is still a huge mess, and I mained one for 5 months post Hot)? This seems like a skill and class mechanic issue. > @"Jski.6180" said: > Necro is strong because of its eliet spec as its still high hp that can be both a support and strong burst dmg at both melee and long ranged all that is unblockable and impossible to support vs. > We were just talking about vanilla, but sure I can talk about HoT. Reaper needed a rework to even work in PvE because at launch Greatsword was designed as both condi and power weapon. Necro is designed around having a 2nd hitpoint pool, it's the central class mechanic. The class as such suffers extreme mobility issues. A huge disadvantage in WvW by the way. > @"Jski.6180" said: > But this is not a talk about each class this is a talk about how hp / def variation with out power / precision and how this is both a problem now and a problem going forward. and you still fail to show how any build currently (and in the past) run in any game mode was vastly disadvantaged. For the xth time, it's a minor issue at best and completely outperformed by class balance and mechanics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airdive.2613 Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 > @"Jski.6180" said: > Rev has the best of all worlds flexibility of skills with its ability to swap its "atuments" powerful ranged burst strong condi dmg and strong fast hits. On-top of strong boons and the hp / def to boot with out the lost of any power. I have very little experience playing the revenant, but I'm somewhat surprised by your description (talking about sPvP): - flexibility - you only get to choose two attunements out of four "damage, condition damage, defense, healing" while one of the two is most probably an elite legend anyway; - flexibility - revenant's utility skills are literally fixed to the current legend and can't be adjusted; - powerful ranged burst - what? Do you mean slow and highly telegraphed hammer attacks? - hp / def to boot - what? Revenant is among the squishiest professions with little to no sustain unless it's some sort of a Ventari support, but then they have no damage so it is a huge loss of power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airdive.2613 Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 > @"Jski.6180" said: > Relay confused why war keeps coming up when i been talking about rev. Warriors have the highest base health alongside necromancers, which you argue gives them an edge at ranged fighting. > Why is hp / def the only effects that are different i mean each classes use them different to some point and the same can be said each class use power / precision different as well but for some reason it dose not vary too? Its just not good to balance that way. Come on, not only *does* the damage output vary, it also varies for every individual weapon skill of every individual profession. There's just 0 need to touch the power. There are no skills in the game that would scale with health or armor, and there are **all** skills in the game that scale (with different coefficients) with power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted October 13, 2018 Author Share Posted October 13, 2018 I seem to have to keep repeating my self vs 2 ppl at once so let me leave with this ideal that i keep saying. Hp / def class variation with out power / precision changing and its a problem now and will be a problem down the line. This needs to be fixed my suggestion is to have power / precision vary with the classes OR you standardized every things to let devs twerk the numbers as needed to make a class less op or up. Any thing else is just pointless nose trying to confuse the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 > @"Jski.6180" said: > I seem to have to keep repeating my self vs 2 ppl at once so let me leave with this ideal that i keep saying. > > Hp / def class variation with out power / precision changing and its a problem now and will be a problem down the line. This needs to be fixed my suggestion is to have power / precision vary with the classes OR you standardized every things to let devs twerk the numbers as needed to make a class less op or up. > > Any thing else is just pointless nose trying to confuse the point. High hitpoint classes do not get more precision or power, they have the same amount of gear slots, builds use the same stats and there is no advantage since NO ONE USES VITALITY. I have given PVE examples, I have directed you to metabattle to check for yourself for any other builds. You have brought 0 valid examples to prove your point so far. At this point in time your argument is nothing but noise since it is not in any way backed up by past or present in-game examples (and even the ones you mentioned were totally out of touch or incorrect). Now you can keep arguing in circles and repeating the same incorrect assumptions you have, they do not become more true with time though. EDIT: The active battle system in this game makes base hitpoints and base armor, even with the minor differences between classes, irrelavant when comapred to huge balancing factors such as: class mechanics, utility skills availability and armor stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted October 14, 2018 Author Share Posted October 14, 2018 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > I seem to have to keep repeating my self vs 2 ppl at once so let me leave with this ideal that i keep saying. > > > > Hp / def class variation with out power / precision changing and its a problem now and will be a problem down the line. This needs to be fixed my suggestion is to have power / precision vary with the classes OR you standardized every things to let devs twerk the numbers as needed to make a class less op or up. > > > > Any thing else is just pointless nose trying to confuse the point. > > High hitpoint classes do not get more precision or power, they have the same amount of gear slots, builds use the same stats and there is no advantage since NO ONE USES VITALITY. > > I have given PVE examples, I have directed you to metabattle to check for yourself for any other builds. You have brought 0 examples to prove your point. > > At this point in time your argument is nothing but noise since it is not in any way backed up by past or present in-game examples (and even the ones you mentioned were totally out of touch or incorrect). They have more hp by your own words how is that not an advantage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > I seem to have to keep repeating my self vs 2 ppl at once so let me leave with this ideal that i keep saying. > > > > > > Hp / def class variation with out power / precision changing and its a problem now and will be a problem down the line. This needs to be fixed my suggestion is to have power / precision vary with the classes OR you standardized every things to let devs twerk the numbers as needed to make a class less op or up. > > > > > > Any thing else is just pointless nose trying to confuse the point. > > > > High hitpoint classes do not get more precision or power, they have the same amount of gear slots, builds use the same stats and there is no advantage since NO ONE USES VITALITY. > > > > I have given PVE examples, I have directed you to metabattle to check for yourself for any other builds. You have brought 0 examples to prove your point. > > > > At this point in time your argument is nothing but noise since it is not in any way backed up by past or present in-game examples (and even the ones you mentioned were totally out of touch or incorrect). > > They have more hp by your own words how is that not an advantage? I never said it is no advantage, I've always said it is a not significant enough advantage and completely overshadowed by balance in other areas. Big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted October 14, 2018 Author Share Posted October 14, 2018 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > I seem to have to keep repeating my self vs 2 ppl at once so let me leave with this ideal that i keep saying. > > > > > > > > Hp / def class variation with out power / precision changing and its a problem now and will be a problem down the line. This needs to be fixed my suggestion is to have power / precision vary with the classes OR you standardized every things to let devs twerk the numbers as needed to make a class less op or up. > > > > > > > > Any thing else is just pointless nose trying to confuse the point. > > > > > > High hitpoint classes do not get more precision or power, they have the same amount of gear slots, builds use the same stats and there is no advantage since NO ONE USES VITALITY. > > > > > > I have given PVE examples, I have directed you to metabattle to check for yourself for any other builds. You have brought 0 examples to prove your point. > > > > > > At this point in time your argument is nothing but noise since it is not in any way backed up by past or present in-game examples (and even the ones you mentioned were totally out of touch or incorrect). > > > > They have more hp by your own words how is that not an advantage? > > I never said it is no advantage, I've always said it is a not significant enough advantage and completely overshadowed by balance in other areas. Big difference. It is and as they add in more elite spec it will be more of a problem. If it was not a big advantage then putting every one at the same hp should not be a problem to balance and would make the game a lot easier to balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > I seem to have to keep repeating my self vs 2 ppl at once so let me leave with this ideal that i keep saying. > > > > > > > > > > Hp / def class variation with out power / precision changing and its a problem now and will be a problem down the line. This needs to be fixed my suggestion is to have power / precision vary with the classes OR you standardized every things to let devs twerk the numbers as needed to make a class less op or up. > > > > > > > > > > Any thing else is just pointless nose trying to confuse the point. > > > > > > > > High hitpoint classes do not get more precision or power, they have the same amount of gear slots, builds use the same stats and there is no advantage since NO ONE USES VITALITY. > > > > > > > > I have given PVE examples, I have directed you to metabattle to check for yourself for any other builds. You have brought 0 examples to prove your point. > > > > > > > > At this point in time your argument is nothing but noise since it is not in any way backed up by past or present in-game examples (and even the ones you mentioned were totally out of touch or incorrect). > > > > > > They have more hp by your own words how is that not an advantage? > > > > I never said it is no advantage, I've always said it is a not significant enough advantage and completely overshadowed by balance in other areas. Big difference. > > It is and as they add in more elite spec it will be more of a problem. > > That is your opinion which you have not backed up yet. You can have your opinion, other people have theirs, some of them disagreed with your opinion on this issue. So far that is all you've provided, an opinion. EDIT: > @"Jski.6180" said: > If it was not a big advantage then putting every one at the same hp should not be a problem to balance and would make the game a lot easier to balance. Except that changing the status quo takes work. If the status quo is fine, no work has to be put in. Obviously since Arenanet have not yet seen the need to make changes to the hitpoint pools they either feel as though they have it under control or they don't see a need to change this. You have not yet shown that it is a big advantage. Let's not throw adjectives in to argue something which you have not yet proven. It's a minor advantage at best if not viewed with class mechanics and abilities together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 > @"Jski.6180" said: > The prove is that we have a lot of passive dmg effects in gw2 retaliation and on hit condis eat dps classes alive and its only hp that stops this. It's not HP pool sizes that let you survive (or not) retaliation. It's your rate of attack. It's not low hps that kill DHs and eles on retal - it's traps and meteor shower. As another example, flamethrower engis and rapid fire rangers are going to go down faster to retal than staff daredevils. In short, using slow but powerful attacks lets you survive retal, while using some fast multihit combos will kill you in seconds. Usually regardless of your hp pools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted October 14, 2018 Author Share Posted October 14, 2018 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > I seem to have to keep repeating my self vs 2 ppl at once so let me leave with this ideal that i keep saying. > > > > > > > > > > > > Hp / def class variation with out power / precision changing and its a problem now and will be a problem down the line. This needs to be fixed my suggestion is to have power / precision vary with the classes OR you standardized every things to let devs twerk the numbers as needed to make a class less op or up. > > > > > > > > > > > > Any thing else is just pointless nose trying to confuse the point. > > > > > > > > > > High hitpoint classes do not get more precision or power, they have the same amount of gear slots, builds use the same stats and there is no advantage since NO ONE USES VITALITY. > > > > > > > > > > I have given PVE examples, I have directed you to metabattle to check for yourself for any other builds. You have brought 0 examples to prove your point. > > > > > > > > > > At this point in time your argument is nothing but noise since it is not in any way backed up by past or present in-game examples (and even the ones you mentioned were totally out of touch or incorrect). > > > > > > > > They have more hp by your own words how is that not an advantage? > > > > > > I never said it is no advantage, I've always said it is a not significant enough advantage and completely overshadowed by balance in other areas. Big difference. > > > > It is and as they add in more elite spec it will be more of a problem. > > > > > > That is your opinion which you have not backed up yet. > > You can have your opinion, other people have theirs, some of them disagreed with your opinion on this issue. > > So far that is all you've provided, an opinion. > > EDIT: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > If it was not a big advantage then putting every one at the same hp should not be a problem to balance and would make the game a lot easier to balance. > > Except that changing the status quo takes work. If the status quo is fine, no work has to be put in. > > Obviously since Arenanet have not yet seen the need to make changes to the hitpoint pools they either feel as though they have it under control or they don't see a need to change this. > > You have not yet shown that it is a big advantage. Let's not throw adjectives in to argue something which you have not yet proven. It's a minor advantage at best if not viewed with class mechanics and abilities together. Do you think they will not add in elite spec that are ranged dmg aimed for tankly classes? Elite specs dont changes your hp. Your views on it seem very shorted sighted and the current classes are not balanced or they would of stopped updated and we just had a banace update and it sounds like we are getting another small one soon. Most of the melee aimed elite spec got high tanking effect and added vit to be able to go in to melee but the eleit spec that added in ranged did not lose hp unless you think they will add in a real cost to running an elite spec down the line. I am not agned that ideal seeing a class lose a wepon skill set and changing hp / def depending on what there new elite spec will do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rng.1024 Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 Everyone please take a breath :) It's worth revisiting damage coefficients, as OP's concern is how vitality differs yet power/precision/ferocity doesn't. It's a fair conclusion, but there's more to it than meets the eye. Let's start with the 3 low healthpool classes; Ele, Thief and Guardian. Anyone remember the outcry when meteorshower accidentally got buffed? How Dragonhunter had to receive nerf after nerf since it's release because it was too strong? Even the complaints about thief, now with Deadeye and the "oneshot" mechanic becoming a thing? What do all these have in common? They all have easy access to high damage coefficient skills. The way this works, is the higher your coefficient, the less the opponents armor matter (and therefore it eats away on their vitality instead). This is why these classes can burst. Compare it to mesmer and ranger, they need multiple hits in a short amount of time to build up their damage, having a harder time dealing with their opponents armor value. Others, like warrior, is all about outsustaining and landing the big hits which all have huge tells coupled with long cast times. Condi is condi, it's always been about landing the important hits and bait out cleanses. So even though the low hp classes don't have extra base stats in power/precision/ferocity, their access to high damage coefficients allow them to hit harder with their attacks than f.ex heavier armor classes can. How much harder? A good example is to compare a 1.5 coefficient with a 1.0. What this means, is that your power stat contributes 50% more to your damage - simple as that. This means you get more value out of critical hits, so in a sense you "debuff" the opponents armor value. So even if these classes choose to spec into some defensive gear, they still perform on par with every other dps spec - and here's the important bit - if the attacks land. Of course going anything more tanky than marauder/demolisher makes you lose the coefficient advantage, but this is the reason zerker geared professions with low hp have the highest spikes in the game. At the same time every weapon type have their own damage range, but it's a mixed bag and for every expansion every profession get access to a new one so it doesn't really matter. At this point I want to illustrate exactly how much gear matters. Let's use a thief's backstab as an example, zerker amulet with no rune. He crits. The person being hit is a zerker ele, no rune. Damage done: 5775 This is 49,6% of his hp Now lets gear our ele with the outdated soldier amulet. Damage done: 3932 This is now 19% of his hp So even gearing for the tankiest possible, it simply requires 2,5 extra hits to kill you than if you ran the glassiest there is - which is why the number of connected hits remains the biggest factor when it comes to surviving a fight. The defensive stats scale incredibly well with several opponents though, causing it to often be opted for in the competitive modes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airdive.2613 Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 > @"Jski.6180" said: > I seem to have to keep repeating my self vs 2 ppl at once so let me leave with this ideal that i keep saying. > > Hp / def class variation with out power / precision changing and its a problem now and will be a problem down the line. This needs to be fixed my suggestion is to have power / precision vary with the classes OR you standardized every things to let devs twerk the numbers as needed to make a class less op or up. > > Any thing else is just pointless nose trying to confuse the point. Varying power and precision is absolutely pointless for the reason stated several times now: every individual weapon skill in the game already has a different damage coefficient (scales differently with the same amount of power points) and it is impossible to have, for example, blurred frenzy or kill shot or meteor shower in your build unless you're playing mesmer, warrior, or elementalist, respectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted October 14, 2018 Author Share Posted October 14, 2018 > @"Airdive.2613" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > I seem to have to keep repeating my self vs 2 ppl at once so let me leave with this ideal that i keep saying. > > > > Hp / def class variation with out power / precision changing and its a problem now and will be a problem down the line. This needs to be fixed my suggestion is to have power / precision vary with the classes OR you standardized every things to let devs twerk the numbers as needed to make a class less op or up. > > > > Any thing else is just pointless nose trying to confuse the point. > > Varying power and precision is absolutely pointless for the reason stated several times now: every individual weapon skill in the game already has a different damage coefficient (scales differently with the same amount of power points) and it is impossible to have, for example, blurred frenzy or kill shot or meteor shower in your build unless you're playing mesmer, warrior, or elementalist, respectively. The thing about the different skill the coefficient will keep getting changed to put each class dps on part with other classes in both pve and pvp. Its what anet has keeped doing and seem to keep at it. In the short run yes we see high spike dmg from skill but in time they become normalized but a full roll defining ones. Sadly this has nothing to do with there hp / def so we end up with classes that have good tank hp / def doing high dmg on the same lines of classes with bad tank hp / def. In a way i am trying to say the hp set up from class to class is not working well and should be normalized to being the same much like how power / precision is but there always the chose to have power / precision to vary as well but with a much harder to balance out come. At the same time coefficient only going to go as far as the skills we have now this dose not help the skills we may have down the line. One hopes a ranged dmg spec will have good coefficient but if its an high hp / def class your going to have a high dmg class with high hp / def at a ranged something that would be beyond toxic to the games balancing. I hope they do add in a ranged dps spec for all classes its not just to keep this type of game play from any class and we all should want this the play as you wish mind set and how fun it is to be able to do such a thing on a class you enjoy. So there needs to be balancing with this mind set. Your skills you pointed out have all been nerf in dmg a good bit and brought in line with others skills with out any though to hp / def of that class. Its the truth of balancing in games every one going to do the same dmg in time. Some times it takes longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 > @"Jski.6180" said: > Sadly this has nothing to do with there hp / def so we end up with classes that have good tank hp / def doing high dmg on the same lines of classes with bad tank hp / def. Your argument falls flat, a thief has low hp and medium armor and deal the highest dps in all game modes. Further, despite their low hp they are some of the hardest to kill too, thanks to their stealth and evades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > Sadly this has nothing to do with there hp / def so we end up with classes that have good tank hp / def doing high dmg on the same lines of classes with bad tank hp / def. > > Your argument falls flat, a thief has low hp and medium armor and deal the highest dps in all game modes. Further, despite their low hp they are some of the hardest to kill too, thanks to their stealth and evades. Quoted for truth. Obviously balance and class mechanics can completely override the advantage given by higher hitpoint pools and higher armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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