Want Opinions on a WvW alternative to Celestial: Sage (sort of)

[Khang Le.9578]

Currently, the Sage Amulet in sPvP gives you ++Power ++Condition +Vitality +Healing, it is Meta and amazing for Scourges, but sadly it is unavailable in PvE. However, if you mix and match correctly you can in fact get very close to the Sage amulet, which is right here:

 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQRArY3fnE9Cl9i10Ae9Cs9ilaBTvxeZ7sRhtRQKAKBEAaAA-jRxgABcr+DTK/AY/BZVCKt+BA-e

 

Ignoring the skills and traits, what is your experienced WvW opinions on this stat combo vs Celestial?

[RisenHowl.2419]

Takes several minutes before the healing power from sages catches up to the flat hp gain from carrion. Carrion has better damage too since neither offer crit/fero

[Khang Le.9578]

I'm not asking for a Carrion vs. Sage in sPvP here, that's a different discussion and btw they're two different builds.

[sostronk.8167]

You need to be more specific in terms of WvW gameplay. We could be talking about solo roaming, small group, guild group or zerg play.

 

- Healing power is only worth investing in if you are in group play. So don't use it if you are solo roaming, invest those stats in other areas.

- Condition damage is garbage for any serious group/guild vs any serious group/guild. Not sure if those exist anymore. But Condition damage has never been an issue for serious guilds. This was before permanent resistance was introduced. There has always been so many group cleanses in the game that any condition damage is virtually negated by any organized composition, rendering investment in condition damage a waste. Resistance covering those few seconds between cleanses only made that stronger. The only reason Condition Damage can work is because of the casual WvW player base. But I base my builds off optimal performance and recommend others do the same.

- Condition damage is good for solo roaming where most encounters are less than 5 group play and group cleansing is lacking.

- I don't recommend investing in much Vitality in large group/guild play. Vitality is more of a counter to Condition damage than Direct Damage (see above for my opinion on that). Toughness is SUBSTANTIALLY better at dealing with Direct Damage.

- Celestial is also garbage in WvW. You are better off full min-maxing.

 

Overall, your build will probably do ok. But it is mostly because WvW players are casuals and the serious/competitive groups left the game. Your build doesn't really cater to any specific WvW gameplay.

[Khang Le.9578]

> @"sostronk.8167" said:

> You need to be more specific in terms of WvW gameplay. We could be talking about solo roaming, small group, guild group or zerg play.

 

Zerg and general open world

 

> - Healing power is only worth investing in if you are in group play. So don't use it if you are solo roaming, invest those stats in other areas.

> - Condition damage is garbage for any serious group/guild vs any serious group/guild. Not sure if those exist anymore. But Condition damage has never been an issue for serious guilds. -- snip -- The only reason Condition Damage can work is because of the casual WvW player base. But I base my builds off optimal performance and recommend others do the same.

 

For my zerg build I'm focusing on boon corruptions and stealing boons so condition damage would be useful as I usually top the meters in Zerg rushes thanks to outputting extreme amount of boon corrupts. Usually 100-150 boons corruption (See STRIP OUT in ArcDPS) in a single fight. I gain a full bar of boons every single time.

 

> - Condition damage is good for solo roaming where most encounters are less than 5 group play and group cleansing is lacking.

 

> - I don't recommend investing in much Vitality in large group/guild play. Vitality is more of a counter to Condition damage than Direct Damage (see above for my opinion on that). Toughness is SUBSTANTIALLY better at dealing with Direct Damage.

 

Vitality increases your life force pool (life force gained is % based while LF cost is static), and let you stack higher barriers on yourself. But usually any form of damage reduction (Toughness) wouldn't help you much in bad zerging situations.

 

> - Celestial is also garbage in WvW. You are better off full min-maxing.

 

And what would the min-max be?

 

> Overall, your build will probably do ok. But it is mostly because WvW players are casuals and the serious/competitive groups left the game. Your build doesn't really cater to any specific WvW gameplay.

 

 

[EremiteAngel.9765]

I recently spoke to One of the TOP Organised guild CRT's Scourge and he shared that he was using full rampagers stats. Precision main, power and condition minor. You can see their GvG against Gv guild in the video below.

 

I think they probably use the same for zerg busting in WvW as I've followed and witnessed them luring and destroying 50 men blobs with Just around 20 of them.

 

scourge seems to be the primary damage dealer.

 

[sostronk.8167]

>Vitality increases your life force pool (life force gained is % based while LF cost is static), and let you stack higher barriers on yourself.

Yeah this is possibly a good point. I haven't really explored Barrier yet, which may throw a spanner in the works.

>And what would the min-max be?

Typically for most classes: Power, Toughness, Precision and Ferocity. For some classes in group composition Healing Power and Concentration.

As a rule of thumb for zerg based builds, I have always aimed to have at least 19k Health, 2800 armor (not toughness) and then aimed to max Effective Power. If your running a group heal build, trade an amount Effective Power for healing Power. If you are running with a group with a backline, you can drop below 2800 armor, but have sets with toughness on hand in case you end up in difficult scenarios.

 

[Khang Le.9578]

> @"EremiteAngel.9765" said:

> I recently spoke to One of the TOP Organised guild CRT's Scourge and he shared that he was using full rampagers stats. Precision main, power and condition minor. You can see their GvG against Gv guild in the video below.

>

> I think they probably use the same for zerg busting in WvW as I've followed and witnessed them luring and destroying 50 men blobs with Just around 20 of them.

>

> scourge seems to be the primary damage dealer.

>

 

I'm afraid you misunderstood my post, I'm not asking for what stats to use in WvW but how would Sage be compared to Celestial as thats what I am currently running and looking for an alternative.

 

> @"sostronk.8167" said:

> Typically for most classes: Power, Toughness, Precision and Ferocity. For some classes in group composition Healing Power and Concentration.

> As a rule of thumb for zerg based builds, I have always aimed to have at least 19k Health, 2800 armor (not toughness) and then aimed to max Effective Power. If your running a group heal build, trade an amount Effective Power for healing Power. If you are running with a group with a backline, you can drop below 2800 armor, but have sets with toughness on hand in case you end up in difficult scenarios.

 

As a scourge I'm not interested in running damage builds as tons of other classes do it better, I'm primarily boon stripping and sustaining myself/allies.

[RisenHowl.2419]

> @"Khang Le.9578" said:

> > @"EremiteAngel.9765" said:

> > I recently spoke to One of the TOP Organised guild CRT's Scourge and he shared that he was using full rampagers stats. Precision main, power and condition minor. You can see their GvG against Gv guild in the video below.

> >

> > I think they probably use the same for zerg busting in WvW as I've followed and witnessed them luring and destroying 50 men blobs with Just around 20 of them.

> >

> > scourge seems to be the primary damage dealer.

> >

>

> I'm afraid you misunderstood my post, I'm not asking for what stats to use in WvW but how would Sage be compared to Celestial as thats what I am currently running and looking for an alternative.

>

> > @"sostronk.8167" said:

> > Typically for most classes: Power, Toughness, Precision and Ferocity. For some classes in group composition Healing Power and Concentration.

> > As a rule of thumb for zerg based builds, I have always aimed to have at least 19k Health, 2800 armor (not toughness) and then aimed to max Effective Power. If your running a group heal build, trade an amount Effective Power for healing Power. If you are running with a group with a backline, you can drop below 2800 armor, but have sets with toughness on hand in case you end up in difficult scenarios.

>

> As a scourge I'm not interested in running damage builds as tons of other classes do it better, I'm primarily boon stripping and sustaining myself/allies.

 

And what everyone is telling you is that sage/celestial are both bad options for scourge in pvp and wvw.

 

Scourge lacks the healing modifiers to utilize healing power as a hybrid and condi scourge lost 40% of its damage with the dhuumfire nerf.

 

Power scourge is on par with Herald damage wise, it's the backbone of every zerg comp for damage

[Khang Le.9578]

> @"RisenHowl.2419" said:

> > @"Khang Le.9578" said:

> > > @"EremiteAngel.9765" said:

> > > I recently spoke to One of the TOP Organised guild CRT's Scourge and he shared that he was using full rampagers stats. Precision main, power and condition minor. You can see their GvG against Gv guild in the video below.

> > >

> > > I think they probably use the same for zerg busting in WvW as I've followed and witnessed them luring and destroying 50 men blobs with Just around 20 of them.

> > >

> > > scourge seems to be the primary damage dealer.

> > >

> >

> > I'm afraid you misunderstood my post, I'm not asking for what stats to use in WvW but how would Sage be compared to Celestial as thats what I am currently running and looking for an alternative.

> >

> > > @"sostronk.8167" said:

> > > Typically for most classes: Power, Toughness, Precision and Ferocity. For some classes in group composition Healing Power and Concentration.

> > > As a rule of thumb for zerg based builds, I have always aimed to have at least 19k Health, 2800 armor (not toughness) and then aimed to max Effective Power. If your running a group heal build, trade an amount Effective Power for healing Power. If you are running with a group with a backline, you can drop below 2800 armor, but have sets with toughness on hand in case you end up in difficult scenarios.

> >

> > As a scourge I'm not interested in running damage builds as tons of other classes do it better, I'm primarily boon stripping and sustaining myself/allies.

>

> And what everyone is telling you is that sage/celestial are both bad options for scourge in pvp and wvw.

>

> Scourge lacks the healing modifiers to utilize healing power as a hybrid and condi scourge lost 40% of its damage with the dhuumfire nerf.

>

> Power scourge is on par with Herald damage wise, it's the backbone of every zerg comp for damage

 

Sage is Meta in sPvP and Celestial is the most used in WvW for most zergs. And I'm not running SR in any of my builds so dhuumfire is moot. But neither of which is the discussion I'm looking for.

[RisenHowl.2419]

> @"Khang Le.9578" said:

> > @"RisenHowl.2419" said:

> > > @"Khang Le.9578" said:

> > > > @"EremiteAngel.9765" said:

> > > > I recently spoke to One of the TOP Organised guild CRT's Scourge and he shared that he was using full rampagers stats. Precision main, power and condition minor. You can see their GvG against Gv guild in the video below.

> > > >

> > > > I think they probably use the same for zerg busting in WvW as I've followed and witnessed them luring and destroying 50 men blobs with Just around 20 of them.

> > > >

> > > > scourge seems to be the primary damage dealer.

> > > >

> > >

> > > I'm afraid you misunderstood my post, I'm not asking for what stats to use in WvW but how would Sage be compared to Celestial as thats what I am currently running and looking for an alternative.

> > >

> > > > @"sostronk.8167" said:

> > > > Typically for most classes: Power, Toughness, Precision and Ferocity. For some classes in group composition Healing Power and Concentration.

> > > > As a rule of thumb for zerg based builds, I have always aimed to have at least 19k Health, 2800 armor (not toughness) and then aimed to max Effective Power. If your running a group heal build, trade an amount Effective Power for healing Power. If you are running with a group with a backline, you can drop below 2800 armor, but have sets with toughness on hand in case you end up in difficult scenarios.

> > >

> > > As a scourge I'm not interested in running damage builds as tons of other classes do it better, I'm primarily boon stripping and sustaining myself/allies.

> >

> > And what everyone is telling you is that sage/celestial are both bad options for scourge in pvp and wvw.

> >

> > Scourge lacks the healing modifiers to utilize healing power as a hybrid and condi scourge lost 40% of its damage with the dhuumfire nerf.

> >

> > Power scourge is on par with Herald damage wise, it's the backbone of every zerg comp for damage

>

> Sage is Meta in sPvP and Celestial is the most used in WvW for most zergs. And I'm not running SR in any of my builds so dhuumfire is moot. But neither of which is the discussion I'm looking for.

 

You are very mistaken man. Check the numbers on your traits and skills, for sages to give more hp than carrion requires you to be in combat for over a minute straight, which is why it isn't meta for scourge. It never has been.

 

Berserker mix is what is meta for wvw for the same reason, healing power adds very little compared to power/fero.

 

Condition damage adds very little to scourge right now since the dhuumfire nerf, which is why literally no one runs condi scourge for wvw. It has half the damage of a power variant. 2s torment and boon corrupts aren't enough to justify running it

[Khang Le.9578]

> @"RisenHowl.2419" said:

> > @"Khang Le.9578" said:

> > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said:

> > > > @"Khang Le.9578" said:

> > > > > @"EremiteAngel.9765" said:

> > > > > I recently spoke to One of the TOP Organised guild CRT's Scourge and he shared that he was using full rampagers stats. Precision main, power and condition minor. You can see their GvG against Gv guild in the video below.

> > > > >

> > > > > I think they probably use the same for zerg busting in WvW as I've followed and witnessed them luring and destroying 50 men blobs with Just around 20 of them.

> > > > >

> > > > > scourge seems to be the primary damage dealer.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > I'm afraid you misunderstood my post, I'm not asking for what stats to use in WvW but how would Sage be compared to Celestial as thats what I am currently running and looking for an alternative.

> > > >

> > > > > @"sostronk.8167" said:

> > > > > Typically for most classes: Power, Toughness, Precision and Ferocity. For some classes in group composition Healing Power and Concentration.

> > > > > As a rule of thumb for zerg based builds, I have always aimed to have at least 19k Health, 2800 armor (not toughness) and then aimed to max Effective Power. If your running a group heal build, trade an amount Effective Power for healing Power. If you are running with a group with a backline, you can drop below 2800 armor, but have sets with toughness on hand in case you end up in difficult scenarios.

> > > >

> > > > As a scourge I'm not interested in running damage builds as tons of other classes do it better, I'm primarily boon stripping and sustaining myself/allies.

> > >

> > > And what everyone is telling you is that sage/celestial are both bad options for scourge in pvp and wvw.

> > >

> > > Scourge lacks the healing modifiers to utilize healing power as a hybrid and condi scourge lost 40% of its damage with the dhuumfire nerf.

> > >

> > > Power scourge is on par with Herald damage wise, it's the backbone of every zerg comp for damage

> >

> > Sage is Meta in sPvP and Celestial is the most used in WvW for most zergs. And I'm not running SR in any of my builds so dhuumfire is moot. But neither of which is the discussion I'm looking for.

>

> You are very mistaken man. Check the numbers on your traits and skills, for sages to give more hp than carrion requires you to be in combat for over a minute straight, which is why it isn't meta for scourge. It never has been.

>

> Berserker mix is what is meta for wvw for the same reason, healing power adds very little compared to power/fero.

>

> Condition damage adds very little to scourge right now since the dhuumfire nerf, which is why literally no one runs condi scourge for wvw. It has half the damage of a power variant. 2s torment and boon corrupts aren't enough to justify running it

 

1. Sage vs Carrion/Deadshot is a different build focusing on two different playstyle, one is a condi pressure the other is condi support/supreme rez capability.

2. Going berserker or vipers in WvW without any defensive stats makes you a rally bot

3. Still not running dhuumfire I don't know where you're going with this I'm not focusing on damage.

4. Again, not what I'm asking for in this post, feel free to make your own post showcasing your own build

[Za Shaloc.3908]

Doesn't seem like there's a super good option. I remember wanting to replicate Sage's setup for my Weaver but I ended up just settling with Cele. Perhaps you could do a mix of Carrion and Apothecary? You'd have a mix of toughness and vitality and you'd be lower on power, but you could always mix and match some other pieces in there too, or infusions and runes. Seems like it'd be hard to balance it out without getting some precision unfortunately.

[Khang Le.9578]

> @"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:

> Doesn't seem like there's a super good option. I remember wanting to replicate Sage's setup for my Weaver but I ended up just settling with Cele. Perhaps you could do a mix of Carrion and Apothecary? You'd have a mix of toughness and vitality and you'd be lower on power, but you could always mix and match some other pieces in there too, or infusions and runes. Seems like it'd be hard to balance it out without getting some precision unfortunately.

 

The current set I'm working on right now have near identical to Sage with some minor precision bonus which is a good thing as it benefits both condi and power side.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQRArf3fnE9CN9iN2Au0A83gFjBbqHEDeBR/sAwBQvtOXzrA-jxxgABQ9EA4W9HmU+JtuAZVCCw+jWhnOJAAA-e

[Za Shaloc.3908]

> @"Khang Le.9578" said:

> > @"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:

> > Doesn't seem like there's a super good option. I remember wanting to replicate Sage's setup for my Weaver but I ended up just settling with Cele. Perhaps you could do a mix of Carrion and Apothecary? You'd have a mix of toughness and vitality and you'd be lower on power, but you could always mix and match some other pieces in there too, or infusions and runes. Seems like it'd be hard to balance it out without getting some precision unfortunately.

>

> The current set I'm working on right now have near identical to Sage with some minor precision bonus which is a good thing as it benefits both condi and power side.

> http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQRArf3fnE9CN9iN2Au0A83gFjBbqHEDeBR/sAwBQvtOXzrA-jxxgABQ9EA4W9HmU+JtuAZVCCw+jWhnOJAAA-e

 

My apologies, I misread your post. Sorry to not help you get your answer. I hear a lot of people in TS/Discord say they like Cele Scourge but I haven't heard any talk of Marshal/Sage-ish. Glad you're enoying it though.

[RisenHowl.2419]

> @"Khang Le.9578" said:

> > @"RisenHowl.2419" said:

> > > @"Khang Le.9578" said:

> > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said:

> > > > > @"Khang Le.9578" said:

> > > > > > @"EremiteAngel.9765" said:

> > > > > > I recently spoke to One of the TOP Organised guild CRT's Scourge and he shared that he was using full rampagers stats. Precision main, power and condition minor. You can see their GvG against Gv guild in the video below.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I think they probably use the same for zerg busting in WvW as I've followed and witnessed them luring and destroying 50 men blobs with Just around 20 of them.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > scourge seems to be the primary damage dealer.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm afraid you misunderstood my post, I'm not asking for what stats to use in WvW but how would Sage be compared to Celestial as thats what I am currently running and looking for an alternative.

> > > > >

> > > > > > @"sostronk.8167" said:

> > > > > > Typically for most classes: Power, Toughness, Precision and Ferocity. For some classes in group composition Healing Power and Concentration.

> > > > > > As a rule of thumb for zerg based builds, I have always aimed to have at least 19k Health, 2800 armor (not toughness) and then aimed to max Effective Power. If your running a group heal build, trade an amount Effective Power for healing Power. If you are running with a group with a backline, you can drop below 2800 armor, but have sets with toughness on hand in case you end up in difficult scenarios.

> > > > >

> > > > > As a scourge I'm not interested in running damage builds as tons of other classes do it better, I'm primarily boon stripping and sustaining myself/allies.

> > > >

> > > > And what everyone is telling you is that sage/celestial are both bad options for scourge in pvp and wvw.

> > > >

> > > > Scourge lacks the healing modifiers to utilize healing power as a hybrid and condi scourge lost 40% of its damage with the dhuumfire nerf.

> > > >

> > > > Power scourge is on par with Herald damage wise, it's the backbone of every zerg comp for damage

> > >

> > > Sage is Meta in sPvP and Celestial is the most used in WvW for most zergs. And I'm not running SR in any of my builds so dhuumfire is moot. But neither of which is the discussion I'm looking for.

> >

> > You are very mistaken man. Check the numbers on your traits and skills, for sages to give more hp than carrion requires you to be in combat for over a minute straight, which is why it isn't meta for scourge. It never has been.

> >

> > Berserker mix is what is meta for wvw for the same reason, healing power adds very little compared to power/fero.

> >

> > Condition damage adds very little to scourge right now since the dhuumfire nerf, which is why literally no one runs condi scourge for wvw. It has half the damage of a power variant. 2s torment and boon corrupts aren't enough to justify running it

>

> 1. Sage vs Carrion/Deadshot is a different build focusing on two different playstyle, one is a condi pressure the other is condi support/supreme rez capability.

> 2. Going berserker or vipers in WvW without any defensive stats makes you a rally bot

> 3. Still not running dhuumfire I don't know where you're going with this I'm not focusing on damage.

> 4. Again, not what I'm asking for in this post, feel free to make your own post showcasing your own build

 

You don't seem to understand, sages provides nothing over carrion regardless of build or playstyle. Sages is always an inferior choice for every necro build. You have the same res capability with both, it's unaffected by healing power.

 

Check out every YouTube video from the last 3 months, you'll find all of the necros running power. Most are running zerkers or zerkers mix because that's the most efficient Stat set, you gain so little from condition damage and healing power that they are wasted stats. With power you have all the same corrupting abilities, but actually contribute to getting downs.

 

If you're running a necro without doing damage, you are a wasted slot. Other classes are better supports. You have the same corrupting ability regardless of your Stat setup

[Khang Le.9578]

> @"RisenHowl.2419" said:

> > @"Khang Le.9578" said:

> > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said:

> > > > @"Khang Le.9578" said:

> > > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said:

> > > > > > @"Khang Le.9578" said:

> > > > > > > @"EremiteAngel.9765" said:

> > > > > > > I recently spoke to One of the TOP Organised guild CRT's Scourge and he shared that he was using full rampagers stats. Precision main, power and condition minor. You can see their GvG against Gv guild in the video below.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I think they probably use the same for zerg busting in WvW as I've followed and witnessed them luring and destroying 50 men blobs with Just around 20 of them.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > scourge seems to be the primary damage dealer.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I'm afraid you misunderstood my post, I'm not asking for what stats to use in WvW but how would Sage be compared to Celestial as thats what I am currently running and looking for an alternative.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > @"sostronk.8167" said:

> > > > > > > Typically for most classes: Power, Toughness, Precision and Ferocity. For some classes in group composition Healing Power and Concentration.

> > > > > > > As a rule of thumb for zerg based builds, I have always aimed to have at least 19k Health, 2800 armor (not toughness) and then aimed to max Effective Power. If your running a group heal build, trade an amount Effective Power for healing Power. If you are running with a group with a backline, you can drop below 2800 armor, but have sets with toughness on hand in case you end up in difficult scenarios.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > As a scourge I'm not interested in running damage builds as tons of other classes do it better, I'm primarily boon stripping and sustaining myself/allies.

> > > > >

> > > > > And what everyone is telling you is that sage/celestial are both bad options for scourge in pvp and wvw.

> > > > >

> > > > > Scourge lacks the healing modifiers to utilize healing power as a hybrid and condi scourge lost 40% of its damage with the dhuumfire nerf.

> > > > >

> > > > > Power scourge is on par with Herald damage wise, it's the backbone of every zerg comp for damage

> > > >

> > > > Sage is Meta in sPvP and Celestial is the most used in WvW for most zergs. And I'm not running SR in any of my builds so dhuumfire is moot. But neither of which is the discussion I'm looking for.

> > >

> > > You are very mistaken man. Check the numbers on your traits and skills, for sages to give more hp than carrion requires you to be in combat for over a minute straight, which is why it isn't meta for scourge. It never has been.

> > >

> > > Berserker mix is what is meta for wvw for the same reason, healing power adds very little compared to power/fero.

> > >

> > > Condition damage adds very little to scourge right now since the dhuumfire nerf, which is why literally no one runs condi scourge for wvw. It has half the damage of a power variant. 2s torment and boon corrupts aren't enough to justify running it

> >

> > 1. Sage vs Carrion/Deadshot is a different build focusing on two different playstyle, one is a condi pressure the other is condi support/supreme rez capability.

> > 2. Going berserker or vipers in WvW without any defensive stats makes you a rally bot

> > 3. Still not running dhuumfire I don't know where you're going with this I'm not focusing on damage.

> > 4. Again, not what I'm asking for in this post, feel free to make your own post showcasing your own build

>

> You don't seem to understand, sages provides nothing over carrion regardless of build or playstyle. Sages is always an inferior choice for every necro build. You have the same res capability with both, it's unaffected by healing power.

>

> Check out every YouTube video from the last 3 months, you'll find all of the necros running power. Most are running zerkers or zerkers mix because that's the most efficient Stat set, you gain so little from condition damage and healing power that they are wasted stats. With power you have all the same corrupting abilities, but actually contribute to getting downs.

>

> If you're running a necro without doing damage, you are a wasted slot. Other classes are better supports. You have the same corrupting ability regardless of your Stat setup

 

Healing Power raises your Barrier by quite a lot, barriers is what makes healing power so good on scourges. A full transfusion ticks also heals you and your allies for more than the self heal you get from Sand Flare. Power is not the only Viable scourge build, check every WvW builds website and you'll find both Cele and Power builds. Here is some good resources for you.

https://builds.vabbi.eu/builds/necromancer.html

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1o_5TWZoE7dTNYgFkffegJEjCOLlK-3fC7sDxJD_uW9c/edit#gid=1271454658

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Necromancer

 

This is for PvE but it showcases Healing Power on a Scourge

[RisenHowl.2419]

> @"Khang Le.9578" said:

> > @"RisenHowl.2419" said:

> > > @"Khang Le.9578" said:

> > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said:

> > > > > @"Khang Le.9578" said:

> > > > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said:

> > > > > > > @"Khang Le.9578" said:

> > > > > > > > @"EremiteAngel.9765" said:

> > > > > > > > I recently spoke to One of the TOP Organised guild CRT's Scourge and he shared that he was using full rampagers stats. Precision main, power and condition minor. You can see their GvG against Gv guild in the video below.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I think they probably use the same for zerg busting in WvW as I've followed and witnessed them luring and destroying 50 men blobs with Just around 20 of them.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > scourge seems to be the primary damage dealer.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I'm afraid you misunderstood my post, I'm not asking for what stats to use in WvW but how would Sage be compared to Celestial as thats what I am currently running and looking for an alternative.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > @"sostronk.8167" said:

> > > > > > > > Typically for most classes: Power, Toughness, Precision and Ferocity. For some classes in group composition Healing Power and Concentration.

> > > > > > > > As a rule of thumb for zerg based builds, I have always aimed to have at least 19k Health, 2800 armor (not toughness) and then aimed to max Effective Power. If your running a group heal build, trade an amount Effective Power for healing Power. If you are running with a group with a backline, you can drop below 2800 armor, but have sets with toughness on hand in case you end up in difficult scenarios.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > As a scourge I'm not interested in running damage builds as tons of other classes do it better, I'm primarily boon stripping and sustaining myself/allies.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > And what everyone is telling you is that sage/celestial are both bad options for scourge in pvp and wvw.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Scourge lacks the healing modifiers to utilize healing power as a hybrid and condi scourge lost 40% of its damage with the dhuumfire nerf.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Power scourge is on par with Herald damage wise, it's the backbone of every zerg comp for damage

> > > > >

> > > > > Sage is Meta in sPvP and Celestial is the most used in WvW for most zergs. And I'm not running SR in any of my builds so dhuumfire is moot. But neither of which is the discussion I'm looking for.

> > > >

> > > > You are very mistaken man. Check the numbers on your traits and skills, for sages to give more hp than carrion requires you to be in combat for over a minute straight, which is why it isn't meta for scourge. It never has been.

> > > >

> > > > Berserker mix is what is meta for wvw for the same reason, healing power adds very little compared to power/fero.

> > > >

> > > > Condition damage adds very little to scourge right now since the dhuumfire nerf, which is why literally no one runs condi scourge for wvw. It has half the damage of a power variant. 2s torment and boon corrupts aren't enough to justify running it

> > >

> > > 1. Sage vs Carrion/Deadshot is a different build focusing on two different playstyle, one is a condi pressure the other is condi support/supreme rez capability.

> > > 2. Going berserker or vipers in WvW without any defensive stats makes you a rally bot

> > > 3. Still not running dhuumfire I don't know where you're going with this I'm not focusing on damage.

> > > 4. Again, not what I'm asking for in this post, feel free to make your own post showcasing your own build

> >

> > You don't seem to understand, sages provides nothing over carrion regardless of build or playstyle. Sages is always an inferior choice for every necro build. You have the same res capability with both, it's unaffected by healing power.

> >

> > Check out every YouTube video from the last 3 months, you'll find all of the necros running power. Most are running zerkers or zerkers mix because that's the most efficient Stat set, you gain so little from condition damage and healing power that they are wasted stats. With power you have all the same corrupting abilities, but actually contribute to getting downs.

> >

> > If you're running a necro without doing damage, you are a wasted slot. Other classes are better supports. You have the same corrupting ability regardless of your Stat setup

>

> Healing Power raises your Barrier by quite a lot, barriers is what makes healing power so good on scourges. A full transfusion ticks also heals you and your allies for more than the self heal you get from Sand Flare. Power is not the only Viable scourge build, check every WvW builds website and you'll find both Cele and Power builds. Here is some good resources for you.

> https://builds.vabbi.eu/builds/necromancer.html

> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1o_5TWZoE7dTNYgFkffegJEjCOLlK-3fC7sDxJD_uW9c/edit#gid=1271454658

> https://metabattle.com/wiki/Necromancer

>

> This is for PvE but it showcases Healing Power on a Scourge

>

 

Running transfusion in a zerg setting is very hit or miss, if you get pulled/locked down at any point during the pulsing heal it will pull 5 downs into the bomb along with you. Which is just giving away 5 rallies. Which is why you will get flamed and kicked from squad for playing it with any guild group unless they specifically request it, too much of a risk compared to just running MI on guards.

 

Here are some good resources for you too:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Main_Page

 

Pay close attention to the healing power modifier for each of the necro skills.

 

Here's your big ones:

Transfusion: 0.3

Desert empowerment: 0.67

Sand cascade: 0.87

Desert shroud: 0.65

Sand flare: 1.5

 

The only one affected by outgoing healing is transfusion, barrier is unaffected. The only one with a healing modifier over 1.0 is sand flare. Which is why healing power is a wasted stat on scourge now, just like condition damage.

 

Play some wvw, you'll find that no one is running Cele scourges but pugs. They bring less to the table, flat out, than power.

[Khang Le.9578]

I'm not sure why you're posting those coefficient, they are quite high compared to the healers counterparts, remember that tranfusion is 9 ticks totaling 2.7 coef. Barrier is indeed affected by Healing power. And I don't know why you're continuing to shove your build in here I'm frankly not interested, power scourges simply don't corrupt as much boons as cele, since they require traits and weapons that compete with corrupting boons, taking SR over Curses, and not taking Spiteful Spirit over Close to Death or Chill of Death over Awaken the Pain.

[RisenHowl.2419]

> @"Khang Le.9578" said:

> I'm not sure why you're posting those coefficient, they are quite high compared to the healers counterparts, remember that tranfusion is 9 ticks totaling 2.7 coef. Barrier is indeed affected by Healing power. And I don't know why you're continuing to shove your build in here I'm frankly not interested, power scourges simply don't corrupt as much boons as cele, since they require traits and weapons that compete with corrupting boons, taking SR over Curses, and not taking Spiteful Spirit over Close to Death or Chill of Death over Awaken the Pain.

 

I just have a problem with misinformation being spread. Barrier is affected by healing power, but not by outgoing heal %, which is why it has shit scaling and isn't worth the Stat investment.

 

I'm saying if your build is based around just corrupting boons, you are not contributing effectively to winning fights. You can run the same exact traits without running cele or sage gear to better effect. If you're going to theorycraft, do it right.

[Khang Le.9578]

You can run the same traits but then you'd lose so much of your effectiveness at outputting power DPS that its pointless, also running Scepter with power stats is stupid. I'm also not spreading any misinformation in here just clearly asking someone who prefer Cele playstyle what their opinion is. You should try running Magi Scourge in raids or T4s and tell me the difference in healing output you can do on 0 Healing vs 1600 Healing.

[RisenHowl.2419]

Do you believe condition damage adds a ton to 15s bleeds that are going to get cleansed in 3s anyways? Power does more for scepter too once you account for cleansing/resist.

 

Your thread is about wvw. I don't have anything to say about it for t4s or raids, but man am I sick of getting wiped because some special necro pug wants to run celestial/heal scourge and transfuses our downs into enemy bombs. It is not a good build, it is literally detrimental to the people you are trying to play with. Talking about it like it is viable is part of the problem because it inspires some other special champ to do it, which will only result in them getting yelled at in game.

 

If you want to be special, there is nothing anyone can do to stop you. But maybe you'll have a better time playing something that's actually good instead?

[Khang Le.9578]

Maybe you should make another post and PSA about running Transfusion badly? I personally have no issues saving my commanders and squads out of fire properly. There is also absolutely no way that you can't stack large amount of condis in a few seconds even if they cleanses, a scourge can sneeze and give someone 8 stacks of torments and burning.

[mindcircus.1506]

> @"Khang Le.9578" said:

> *snip*

 

Why not run Cele? If you PvP a lot you have access to a ton of stat selectable ascended armor.

Cele is really the best choice imho for a WvW scourge, or rather it's the stats I have had the best results from.

 

[Khang Le.9578]

> @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > @"Khang Le.9578" said:

> > *snip*

>

> Why not run Cele? If you PvP a lot you have access to a ton of stat selectable ascended armor.

> Cele is really the best choice imho for a WvW scourge, or rather it's the stats I have had the best results from.

>

 

What I'm currently running, I was just asking if this alternative would be better with the same playstyle, sacrificing ferocity and toughness for higher power and condi. Guess the reason I'm asking is because people run Deadshot/Sage in sPvP and not Celestial.