Megametzler.5729 Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > Aren't the tournaments for full teams? Yepp. Well... once/if they come out someday. :tongue: €: Or was that sarcasm...? Anyway, I hope not.^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amaranthe.3578 Posted October 19, 2018 Author Share Posted October 19, 2018 > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > > Seperate the leaderboards if you want to make it fair. No point in discussing "lol just form teams" or "lol u just wanna get carried". Not for the millionth time. > > > > > > > > I dont mind that at all. > > > > But if the population isnt large enough to support both then just form teams. > > > > > > But if the population isnt large enough to support both then just make soloQ. > > > > > > You see where this ends? We need some new idea. Some form of matchmaking with seperate leaderboards, but a fair matchmaking to _keep all people play together_. Rework the teamQ-access to matches - only duos of about the same rank on each side for example, not one high duo on one side, and two lower ones on the other. That is what they _should_ do. > > > > > > Simply bringing titles back is extremely cheap and makes the titles less and less worthy. Even new titles - what the heck, how much time can that consume? Most of the legendary titles sound like a mixture from metal bands anyway. And I can't hear "swiss will come soon" or "2on2 tourneys are high priority" anymore. Instead of some real rework of the system, some real improvement of the matchmaking _with teams_, they just try to keep as many people playing with the fewest effort possible. > > > > > > But I am an ele main in PvP, I know what it feels like to get the runaround. > > > > > > €: Oh I forgot. If they would finally finish swiss tournaments, will they revert the duoQ again? Because that will be the on-demand place for competitive teamQ, right? I start thinking we are being fooled. > > > > But this is a team-based game...and ranked is where people are supposed to play competetively...thats like throwing random soccer players together and saying its competetive. > > Apart from that being a very poor example*, did you read anything I wrote? > > *Of course you can. Every player has the same opportunity. Now throw in some duos - Messi and Ronaldo carrying teams and Neymar crying alone - or full teams - lol - and you have a great situation like we have now. Unbalanced leaderboards. Solo queue is for UNranked Ranked should be for teams X_X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megametzler.5729 Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > > > Seperate the leaderboards if you want to make it fair. No point in discussing "lol just form teams" or "lol u just wanna get carried". Not for the millionth time. > > > > > > > > > > I dont mind that at all. > > > > > But if the population isnt large enough to support both then just form teams. > > > > > > > > But if the population isnt large enough to support both then just make soloQ. > > > > > > > > You see where this ends? We need some new idea. Some form of matchmaking with seperate leaderboards, but a fair matchmaking to _keep all people play together_. Rework the teamQ-access to matches - only duos of about the same rank on each side for example, not one high duo on one side, and two lower ones on the other. That is what they _should_ do. > > > > > > > > Simply bringing titles back is extremely cheap and makes the titles less and less worthy. Even new titles - what the heck, how much time can that consume? Most of the legendary titles sound like a mixture from metal bands anyway. And I can't hear "swiss will come soon" or "2on2 tourneys are high priority" anymore. Instead of some real rework of the system, some real improvement of the matchmaking _with teams_, they just try to keep as many people playing with the fewest effort possible. > > > > > > > > But I am an ele main in PvP, I know what it feels like to get the runaround. > > > > > > > > €: Oh I forgot. If they would finally finish swiss tournaments, will they revert the duoQ again? Because that will be the on-demand place for competitive teamQ, right? I start thinking we are being fooled. > > > > > > But this is a team-based game...and ranked is where people are supposed to play competetively...thats like throwing random soccer players together and saying its competetive. > > > > Apart from that being a very poor example*, did you read anything I wrote? > > > > *Of course you can. Every player has the same opportunity. Now throw in some duos - Messi and Ronaldo carrying teams and Neymar crying alone - or full teams - lol - and you have a great situation like we have now. Unbalanced leaderboards. > > Solo queue is for UNranked > Ranked should be for teams X_X Ah, yes. Now I got it. Of course, it is in the name alrea-... wait it isn't! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kako.1930 Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > > > Seperate the leaderboards if you want to make it fair. No point in discussing "lol just form teams" or "lol u just wanna get carried". Not for the millionth time. > > > > > > > > > > I dont mind that at all. > > > > > But if the population isnt large enough to support both then just form teams. > > > > > > > > But if the population isnt large enough to support both then just make soloQ. > > > > > > > > You see where this ends? We need some new idea. Some form of matchmaking with seperate leaderboards, but a fair matchmaking to _keep all people play together_. Rework the teamQ-access to matches - only duos of about the same rank on each side for example, not one high duo on one side, and two lower ones on the other. That is what they _should_ do. > > > > > > > > Simply bringing titles back is extremely cheap and makes the titles less and less worthy. Even new titles - what the heck, how much time can that consume? Most of the legendary titles sound like a mixture from metal bands anyway. And I can't hear "swiss will come soon" or "2on2 tourneys are high priority" anymore. Instead of some real rework of the system, some real improvement of the matchmaking _with teams_, they just try to keep as many people playing with the fewest effort possible. > > > > > > > > But I am an ele main in PvP, I know what it feels like to get the runaround. > > > > > > > > €: Oh I forgot. If they would finally finish swiss tournaments, will they revert the duoQ again? Because that will be the on-demand place for competitive teamQ, right? I start thinking we are being fooled. > > > > > > But this is a team-based game...and ranked is where people are supposed to play competetively...thats like throwing random soccer players together and saying its competetive. > > > > Apart from that being a very poor example*, did you read anything I wrote? > > > > *Of course you can. Every player has the same opportunity. Now throw in some duos - Messi and Ronaldo carrying teams and Neymar crying alone - or full teams - lol - and you have a great situation like we have now. Unbalanced leaderboards. > > Solo queue is for UNranked > Ranked should be for teams X_X I disagree, they should both be ranked. Maybe with separate leaderboards/queues, but both still ranked with unranked on the side, like how hotjoin used to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gw niko.1049 Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 For a seperate premate-queue and solo-queue, the population might be not enough. It already was mentioned. If you mix both together, premade-teams would probably destroy solo players. I suppose Solo players are farming pve-players to a very high degree then. They won´t like this.... xD Due to uncountable amounts of bad-decisions Anet made in the past, the very most of the actually competetiv-pvp players are gone, what I call the original-pvp-community. It´s gone. Now, maybe exacly because of that, Anet brought pve-rewards in pvp. With that it was and is sealed. PvP belongs now to the PvE-community and they want a easy, relaxed gameplay and nothing stressfull and competetiv. With a large amount of casuals and PvE players playing PvP, it´s obvious Anet will continou to give them what they want. I actually think the combat itself is the most problem itself. I carried games with most classes on diffened builds in the past. You feeled the impact you had back then. Today I don´t and I see it in streams from helseth for example, how he playes perfectly fine and gets beaten 200 to 500 and this does happens not rarely at all. I consider the PvP today a spamm to a high degree. I aknowledge that you can still see a difference between a good player and a bad one. You can see how the pro´s are in platinum to legendary actually. But the gap between a good, skilled player and casual almost doesn´t exist anymore. Maybe between a pro and total noob. But not between a average and pro player. Judging by the x-pack meta-builds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amaranthe.3578 Posted October 19, 2018 Author Share Posted October 19, 2018 > @"Kako.1930" said: > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > > > > Seperate the leaderboards if you want to make it fair. No point in discussing "lol just form teams" or "lol u just wanna get carried". Not for the millionth time. > > > > > > > > > > > > I dont mind that at all. > > > > > > But if the population isnt large enough to support both then just form teams. > > > > > > > > > > But if the population isnt large enough to support both then just make soloQ. > > > > > > > > > > You see where this ends? We need some new idea. Some form of matchmaking with seperate leaderboards, but a fair matchmaking to _keep all people play together_. Rework the teamQ-access to matches - only duos of about the same rank on each side for example, not one high duo on one side, and two lower ones on the other. That is what they _should_ do. > > > > > > > > > > Simply bringing titles back is extremely cheap and makes the titles less and less worthy. Even new titles - what the heck, how much time can that consume? Most of the legendary titles sound like a mixture from metal bands anyway. And I can't hear "swiss will come soon" or "2on2 tourneys are high priority" anymore. Instead of some real rework of the system, some real improvement of the matchmaking _with teams_, they just try to keep as many people playing with the fewest effort possible. > > > > > > > > > > But I am an ele main in PvP, I know what it feels like to get the runaround. > > > > > > > > > > €: Oh I forgot. If they would finally finish swiss tournaments, will they revert the duoQ again? Because that will be the on-demand place for competitive teamQ, right? I start thinking we are being fooled. > > > > > > > > But this is a team-based game...and ranked is where people are supposed to play competetively...thats like throwing random soccer players together and saying its competetive. > > > > > > Apart from that being a very poor example*, did you read anything I wrote? > > > > > > *Of course you can. Every player has the same opportunity. Now throw in some duos - Messi and Ronaldo carrying teams and Neymar crying alone - or full teams - lol - and you have a great situation like we have now. Unbalanced leaderboards. > > > > Solo queue is for UNranked > > Ranked should be for teams X_X > > I disagree, they should both be ranked. Maybe with separate leaderboards/queues, but both still ranked with unranked on the side, like how hotjoin used to be. You disagree? Playing with random people without any comms is super casual...why rank it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > > > Dont you want to push people to forming groups-? > > > > > > > > Yes but only on the fly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What? > > > > PvP as it stands now rewards the group that is quickest to get its kitten together after being shoved together at random. > > > > So, yes. But only on the fly. > > > > Whether that is the best way of doing that is very debatable. > > Are we playing the same game? Do you actually see any meaningful coordination in solo queue? > If youre forming the group at random for them then the people didnt form a group X_X My sarcasm has been missed apparently. That's the whole point. There's no meaningful coordination because_ people are not doing or cannot easily do that upon being paired with four other players they may not have ever seen. _ The winner of the match is usually the team that struggles to semi-cohesive before the other one. Your technical skills are not the only thing carrying you in the pvp scene as it is, a large portion is impromptu leadership or impromptu cooperation, both qualities that solo players ironically lack. Again, whether or not that is the correct way of determining ladder placement is debatable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sampson.2403 Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 I used to spend most of my time playing Runescape, but I was turning into a fat, sweaty, hairy virgin that had a neckbeard and a mullet that connected somehow. I’m still all of that, but now I do things like listen to Mozart in my basement and chow down on grown-adult foreskins I stole from my local hospital. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fearless.3569 Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > > > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > > > > Dont you want to push people to forming groups-? > > > > > > > > > > Yes but only on the fly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What? > > > > > > PvP as it stands now rewards the group that is quickest to get its kitten together after being shoved together at random. > > > > > > So, yes. But only on the fly. > > > > > > Whether that is the best way of doing that is very debatable. > > > > Are we playing the same game? Do you actually see any meaningful coordination in solo queue? > > If youre forming the group at random for them then the people didnt form a group X_X > > My sarcasm has been missed apparently. > > That's the whole point. There's no meaningful coordination because_ people are not doing or cannot easily do that upon being paired with four other players they may not have ever seen. _ > > The winner of the match is usually the team that struggles to semi-cohesive before the other one. Your technical skills are not the only thing carrying you in the pvp scene as it is, a large portion is impromptu leadership or impromptu cooperation, both qualities that solo players ironically lack. > > Again, whether or not that is the correct way of determining ladder placement is debatable. So far I've seen quite a few matches where 2 or 3 of my teammates just either - refuse to fight on point. - refuse to respond to pings - lemming into mid one by one only to die with in a matter of a few seconds. - And my favorite, after seeing we have the win in the bag one of my teammates just decide to leave the game. Forcing us into a 4v5 match only to lose. I honestly don't understand how the game can properly rank me. When I'm the only one on my team that is playing the objectives.(Capping and Decapping) Like what is wrong with this game's PvP community. And why are their no Low Priority queues for players who continue to do these things. Smite and DOTA sends these types of players to Low Priority queue so they can play on a team with other like players. And forces them to win matches to get out. Much better ranked environment in those two games. I mean what is the purpose of a leaderboard if no one is refereeing the PvP scene? It almost defeats the point of playing Ranked in this game. Better off doing like the rest of my team auto running into walls and just no playing the game to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amaranthe.3578 Posted October 19, 2018 Author Share Posted October 19, 2018 > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > > > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > > > > Dont you want to push people to forming groups-? > > > > > > > > > > Yes but only on the fly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What? > > > > > > PvP as it stands now rewards the group that is quickest to get its kitten together after being shoved together at random. > > > > > > So, yes. But only on the fly. > > > > > > Whether that is the best way of doing that is very debatable. > > > > Are we playing the same game? Do you actually see any meaningful coordination in solo queue? > > If youre forming the group at random for them then the people didnt form a group X_X > > My sarcasm has been missed apparently. > > That's the whole point. There's no meaningful coordination because_ people are not doing or cannot easily do that upon being paired with four other players they may not have ever seen. _ > > The winner of the match is usually the team that struggles to semi-cohesive before the other one. Your technical skills are not the only thing carrying you in the pvp scene as it is, a large portion is impromptu leadership or impromptu cooperation, both qualities that solo players ironically lack. > > Again, whether or not that is the correct way of determining ladder placement is debatable. I see Like I already said before the experience you describe seem to fit an UNranked/casual PvP environment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kako.1930 Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > > > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > > > > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > > > > > Dont you want to push people to forming groups-? > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes but only on the fly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What? > > > > > > > > PvP as it stands now rewards the group that is quickest to get its kitten together after being shoved together at random. > > > > > > > > So, yes. But only on the fly. > > > > > > > > Whether that is the best way of doing that is very debatable. > > > > > > Are we playing the same game? Do you actually see any meaningful coordination in solo queue? > > > If youre forming the group at random for them then the people didnt form a group X_X > > > > My sarcasm has been missed apparently. > > > > That's the whole point. There's no meaningful coordination because_ people are not doing or cannot easily do that upon being paired with four other players they may not have ever seen. _ > > > > The winner of the match is usually the team that struggles to semi-cohesive before the other one. Your technical skills are not the only thing carrying you in the pvp scene as it is, a large portion is impromptu leadership or impromptu cooperation, both qualities that solo players ironically lack. > > > > Again, whether or not that is the correct way of determining ladder placement is debatable. > > I see > Like I already said before the experience you describe seem to fit an UNranked/casual PvP environment Unranked would be more appropriate for people trying new builds or professions they're inexperienced at playing, or just trying out pvp for the first time. Some people play solo and would like to be put with and against other solo players who are confident enough in their profession/build and skill to go ranked. I don't think there's a problem with that. There is a problem with all the generalizing statements like "Solo players are just noobs who don't know how to play," though. Just because you have a bias against solo players doesn't make it true. If there was a separate queue for solo players, you could play in your own team queue with all your premade buddies and not ever have to see the solo players. The only possible downside is that you might experience longer queue times, but you wouldn't be able to complain about all of the things that have been listed as supposedly solo-only flaws. You could scoff all you want at the solo leaderboard, calling it illegitimate and whatever other opinions you might have, but I don't think a person's ability to choose their teammates ahead of time or use voice chat makes them any more skilled than someone playing without those things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rizigmar.2681 Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > Seperate the leaderboards if you want to make it fair. No point in discussing "lol just form teams" or "lol u just wanna get carried". Not for the millionth time. But then everyone is just going to go for solo and it's going to take ages for a team players to climb especially with how low the population is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroth.4217 Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 > @"Sampson.2403" said: > I used to spend most of my time playing Runescape, but I was turning into a fat, sweaty, hairy virgin that had a neckbeard and a mullet that connected somehow. > > I’m still all of that, but now I do things like listen to Mozart in my basement and chow down on grown-adult foreskins I stole from my local hospital. What? Why would you listen to Mozart? Frank Sinatra is so much better ? "I did it, myyyyyyyyyyyyy wayyyyyyyyyyy" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amaranthe.3578 Posted October 20, 2018 Author Share Posted October 20, 2018 > @"Kako.1930" said: > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > > > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > > > > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > > > > > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > > > > > > Dont you want to push people to forming groups-? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes but only on the fly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What? > > > > > > > > > > PvP as it stands now rewards the group that is quickest to get its kitten together after being shoved together at random. > > > > > > > > > > So, yes. But only on the fly. > > > > > > > > > > Whether that is the best way of doing that is very debatable. > > > > > > > > Are we playing the same game? Do you actually see any meaningful coordination in solo queue? > > > > If youre forming the group at random for them then the people didnt form a group X_X > > > > > > My sarcasm has been missed apparently. > > > > > > That's the whole point. There's no meaningful coordination because_ people are not doing or cannot easily do that upon being paired with four other players they may not have ever seen. _ > > > > > > The winner of the match is usually the team that struggles to semi-cohesive before the other one. Your technical skills are not the only thing carrying you in the pvp scene as it is, a large portion is impromptu leadership or impromptu cooperation, both qualities that solo players ironically lack. > > > > > > Again, whether or not that is the correct way of determining ladder placement is debatable. > > > > I see > > Like I already said before the experience you describe seem to fit an UNranked/casual PvP environment > > Unranked would be more appropriate for people trying new builds or professions they're inexperienced at playing, or just trying out pvp for the first time. Some people play solo and would like to be put with and against other solo players who are confident enough in their profession/build and skill to go ranked. I don't think there's a problem with that. There is a problem with all the generalizing statements like "Solo players are just noobs who don't know how to play," though. Just because you have a bias against solo players doesn't make it true. If there was a separate queue for solo players, you could play in your own team queue with all your premade buddies and not ever have to see the solo players. The only possible downside is that you might experience longer queue times, but you wouldn't be able to complain about all of the things that have been listed as supposedly solo-only flaws. You could scoff all you want at the solo leaderboard, calling it illegitimate and whatever other opinions you might have, but I don't think a person's ability to choose their teammates ahead of time or use voice chat makes them any more skilled than someone playing without those things. I really dont think thats the purpose on unranked...as it stands right now it almost has no purpose because all the good rewards are from ranked. I havent made those silly statements you mentioned, I do however say that you can never have the same level of teamwork in a solo queue as you will with a team. Theres a reason that in team-based competetive game people form teams, you dont see people playing high level soccer or basketball with random strangers do you? Thank god that at least we dont have a solo queue for fractals yet(why not?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megametzler.5729 Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 > @"Rizigmar.2681" said: > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > Seperate the leaderboards if you want to make it fair. No point in discussing "lol just form teams" or "lol u just wanna get carried". Not for the millionth time. > > But then everyone is just going to go for solo and it's going to take ages for a team players to climb especially with how low the population is. What? So forcing people into teams should be the way to go? No no. That's why I suggested a serious rework of the matchmaker above, so soloQ and teamQ can play together without the salt of total vlowouts (or reduce it at least). Let teams in the queue have some restrictions - equallyish placed duos on both sides for example - and maybe lower the impact of these games for solo players. Just do not let duos count as two unconnected individuals, because the effect of voice communication are hard to value correctly for forming a proper team. But as I said, that would require some more effort from Anets side. Better just copy old titles into the rewards and act like "we are all working on swiss (once we find an intern who's willing to do anything for zero payment)". :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kako.1930 Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > @"Rizigmar.2681" said: > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > Seperate the leaderboards if you want to make it fair. No point in discussing "lol just form teams" or "lol u just wanna get carried". Not for the millionth time. > > > > But then everyone is just going to go for solo and it's going to take ages for a team players to climb especially with how low the population is. > > What? So forcing people into teams should be the way to go? No no. That's why I suggested a serious rework of the matchmaker above, so soloQ and teamQ can play together without the salt of total vlowouts (or reduce it at least). Let teams in the queue have some restrictions - equallyish placed duos on both sides for example - and maybe lower the impact of these games for solo players. Just do not let duos count as two unconnected individuals, because the effect of voice communication are hard to value correctly for forming a proper team. > > But as I said, that would require some more effort from Anets side. Better just copy old titles into the rewards and act like "we are all working on swiss (once we find an intern who's willing to do anything for zero payment)". :lol: This would work best probably. Unfortunately, everyone wants only their way and nobody else's. It's either only team q, or only solo q, and unsurprisingly, that only discourages one half or the other from playing.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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