Personal DPS and other self-tracking

[Obtena.7952]

To be fair, I'm not sure a meter to monitor those kinds of effects would tell you much; you can't tell if it was you or your team mate that didn't prevent bad things from happening to them. Team mate A takes a big hit and goes down ... even if you had a meter to track that, how would it tell you how to improve your game? You don't even know why he took that hit. Furthermore, you won't be able to check whatever meter is telling you that during the raid anyways; I mean, you're a little busy doing a raid.

 

I'm for damage LOGS, but a meter while you play ... just don't see the purpose except to draw attention (good or bad) to individuals.

[deadpool.7036]

While you play is just a real-time log viewer really.... It's way handier to have than stopping combat, stopping gameplay, and reading logs for 10 minutes only to try again.

 

If I'm playing WoW, and I'm halfway through a fight, I absolutely check my meter, I try to check it as often as possible. Because I know I can make mistakes, sometimes it's blatant and I can correct mid-fight (forgot a buff, or dps is consistently low did I forget to change talents?). Another window is setup for incoming damage, I can spot when another player might not know a mechanic, I can then politely explain to avoid something deadly. Then maybe they tell me "yeah, sorry, saw it last second" or "I was stunned"... Then the group can further assist by shifting priorities.

 

Group composition can be tricky and sometimes on-the-fly changes can make a big difference.

 

Not sure how real-time makes it worse. Again, in the context of a personal-only meter.

[TamX.1870]

> @"deltaconnected.4058" said:

> Depends on what you consider "the right thing" to be. What if 10 seconds later your team get's hit by a massive CoR which ends up costing the game? All of a sudden "the right thing" was not to use your block to prevent a teammates death and instead to let them die and hold the point yourself and block the CoR.

 

This is true, of course. I didn't say that measuring right values would be easy, I said that measuring only DPS or HPS gives you false evaluations at certain things. Classes that can protect other people would benefit to see when their blocks worked, and how much dmg ppl took without blocks(*). That way you would later see that giving a block to certain attack - assuming that it was impossible to revive the knocked-off person - were wrongly timed because bit later the team would take damage to wipe half of the group. You would learn, and next time you might decide to leave the knocked-off person without aegis, because you'd expect a big hit in the near future.

 

(*) In the previous game I was playing, I was indeed implementing such kind of measurement to the tool: we didn't have all the data, but we approximated the efficiency of blocks and partial blocks based on the damage made by hits without them.

 

> No matter how you look at it every single action can be gauged as both "you did good" and "you did bad" at the same time because of the infinite and computationally impossible amount of futures available. As a tool developer I just hope that you know that what you're asking for is well outside the realm of what is possible.

 

Well, I slightly disagree. I agree with you about that meters should only show results that are based on real data, but it does not mean that they couldn't show the data in such manner that benefits you as a player. For example, to your example, lets think a meter that can show a time line when you delivered aegis to people, and how much damage the team was taking. It would show you in this particular case that the aegis you gave to person to prevent her/him to be knocked out led to situation where shortly after that half of your team was wiped. I really don't see such tracking to be impossible to implement. But yes, in general, I agree with you, not all things you do to make your team to success are easy to measure.

 

EDIT: Just an example. I am using ArcDPS. Last few days in WvW roaming on my ranger I have tried to learn to use Smokescale smoke field not to blast it for stealth, but to use it to blind people. I would really appreciate to have a tool to tell me what attack I blinded. Just an example.

[Cyanchiv.2583]

Before DPS meters were widely used people relied on meta builds that were based on casual observation, instead of actual numbers, to determine usefulness (such as when all dungeon parties were zerker warriors). People were still excluded for not running certain builds. With DPS meters people can run a variety of builds, and prove they can pull their own weight even when not copy and pasting a meta build.

 

The guild I'm with uses meters to assist players with improving in the game, however there is a huge issue with DPS meters. They are not being used frequently to improve player's builds and skill, but to exclude players from content, or even shame them.

 

I unfortunately do not have a good answer for the negatives DPS meters bring, but I'd like to see a change that allows players to improve without shaming or excluding them.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"deadpool.7036" said:

> While you play is just a real-time log viewer really.... It's way handier to have than stopping combat, stopping gameplay, and reading logs for 10 minutes only to try again.

>

> If I'm playing WoW, and I'm halfway through a fight, I absolutely check my meter, I try to check it as often as possible. Because I know I can make mistakes, sometimes it's blatant and I can correct mid-fight (forgot a buff, or dps is consistently low did I forget to change talents?). Another window is setup for incoming damage, I can spot when another player might not know a mechanic, I can then politely explain to avoid something deadly. Then maybe they tell me "yeah, sorry, saw it last second" or "I was stunned"... Then the group can further assist by shifting priorities.

>

> Group composition can be tricky and sometimes on-the-fly changes can make a big difference.

>

> Not sure how real-time makes it worse. Again, in the context of a personal-only meter.

 

The real time is when people abuse it to kick others, plus it's not necessary to check and have a DPS meter real time. This game just doesn't need it. Check your WoW baggage at the door; you're late to the party, this game has a market and is successful because it's NOT WoW.

[deadpool.7036]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"deadpool.7036" said:

> > While you play is just a real-time log viewer really.... It's way handier to have than stopping combat, stopping gameplay, and reading logs for 10 minutes only to try again.

> >

> > If I'm playing WoW, and I'm halfway through a fight, I absolutely check my meter, I try to check it as often as possible. Because I know I can make mistakes, sometimes it's blatant and I can correct mid-fight (forgot a buff, or dps is consistently low did I forget to change talents?). Another window is setup for incoming damage, I can spot when another player might not know a mechanic, I can then politely explain to avoid something deadly. Then maybe they tell me "yeah, sorry, saw it last second" or "I was stunned"... Then the group can further assist by shifting priorities.

> >

> > Group composition can be tricky and sometimes on-the-fly changes can make a big difference.

> >

> > Not sure how real-time makes it worse. Again, in the context of a personal-only meter.

>

> The real time is when people abuse it to kick others, plus it's not necessary to check and have a DPS meter real time. This game just doesn't need it. Check your WoW baggage at the door; you're late to the party, this game has a market and is successful because it's NOT WoW.

 

Still an mmo with similar features and foundations... it's not 100% unique. Trying to be constructive here...

 

I just explained why real time can be helpful. Do you mean to dismiss that or do you really think real time doesn't provide a conveince while theory-crafting? (Again, my context is PERSONAL-only dps)

 

I'm hearing more and more that I'm not allowed to take the game seriously. I have to play casually. And trying to do my best is game-breaking...

[deadpool.7036]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> ...WoW baggage at the door; you're late to the party, this game has a market and is successful because it's NOT WoW.

 

Late? So the game is dying? I played GW. I trialed GW2.... Wasn't very memorable at the time.

 

I think it successful for a lot more reasons than what you've stated and I think another is the community. But if we're just gonna start poking and pointing here... We're going to start undermining the community...

[deadpool.7036]

> @"Cyanchiv.2583" said:

> Before DPS meters were widely used people relied on meta builds that were based on casual observation, instead of actual numbers, to determine usefulness (such as when all dungeon parties were zerker warriors). People were still excluded for not running certain builds. With DPS meters people can run a variety of builds, and prove they can pull their own weight even when not copy and pasting a meta build.

>

> The guild I'm with uses meters to assist players with improving in the game, however there is a huge issue with DPS meters. They are not being used frequently to improve player's builds and skill, but to exclude players from content, or even shame them.

>

> I unfortunately do not have a good answer for the negatives DPS meters bring, but I'd like to see a change that allows players to improve without shaming or excluding them.

 

So basically, meters or not.... People we're already exhibit in the same behaviors.

[Obtena.7952]

No, you just came late.

 

You're right though, GW2 is successful for LOTS of reasons and many of those reasons are related to how GW2 doesn't do what other MMOs do. Not sure what you mean by undermining; I don't have a problem with something that would log information so people can study themselves. I do have a problem with ingame functions that people abuse others with that are in opposition to one of the selling points of the game. I'm willing to bet it's one of the many reasons we don't have them as well.

[Gop.8713]

Voted for better meter support, I'd prefer it if anet just included one in the game itself. That said I don't use one myself, but if other ppl want to I'm all for them having the tools available . . .

[Kam.4092]

> @"deadpool.7036" said:

> I figured I'd make this more anonymous, feel free to chime in if compelled to.

>

> I come from a world (not this game) of DPS meters that people use to make a lot of decisions with. While we might not be kicking anyone, we probably will not re-ingite the guy with better gear who did half of anyone's dps and offers no other utility.

>

> There seems to be a long standing stigma with DPS meters in this game, probably for good reasons. After reading the posts, seeing the arena net response, and general position of the meters themselves.

>

> How many people are using them? How many people want nothing to do with them, even if it's just for personal use? Overall damage and other things is listed at the end of a PvP round, but this isnt super helpful when trying to gauge combat on the fly.

>

> Would we want to see a built-in logging function? Or maybe a lua-based scripting mechanism in the game to make it to easier and more controllable for add-on developers?

 

Why are you digging up a dead horse just to beat it again? This was already talked about to death.

[deltaconnected.4058]

> @"TamX.1870" said:

> This is true, of course. I didn't say that measuring right values would be easy, I said that measuring only DPS or HPS gives you false evaluations at certain things. Classes that can protect other people would benefit to see when their blocks worked, and how much dmg ppl took without blocks(*). That way you would later see that giving a block to certain attack - assuming that it was impossible to revive the knocked-off person - were wrongly timed because bit later the team would take damage to wipe half of the group. You would learn, and next time you might decide to leave the knocked-off person without aegis, because you'd expect a big hit in the near future.

>

> (*) In the previous game I was playing, I was indeed implementing such kind of measurement to the tool: we didn't have all the data, but we approximated the efficiency of blocks and partial blocks based on the damage made by hits without them.

> Well, I slightly disagree. I agree with you about that meters should only show results that are based on real data, but it does not mean that they couldn't show the data in such manner that benefits you as a player. For example, to your example, lets think a meter that can show a time line when you delivered aegis to people, and how much damage the team was taking. It would show you in this particular case that the aegis you gave to person to prevent her/him to be knocked out led to situation where shortly after that half of your team was wiped. I really don't see such tracking to be impossible to implement. But yes, in general, I agree with you, not all things you do to make your team to success are easy to measure.

 

But knowing if your block worked is still undefined - the opponent has the option to not use said large attack if they see or anticipate that you'll block it, or decide to use another skill on another teammate. If you program the gameplay guide (I wouldn't call it a meter at this point) to use an in-the-moment decision and the opponent waited you out, it would tell you you wasted your block. If you programmed it to guess if it was useful you will ALWAYS find a plausible future in which it is eg. you might've used it to buy time for another skill to come off cooldown for yourself or a teammate. In this kind of combat system with this many variables, many of which are human, no two situations are ever going to be the same so unless it's something as painfully obvious as 'I stood in the red and died' - and therefore can be measured in a DPS/HPS way and why DPS/HPS is the go-to stat - you'll always be able to find some way where what you did is intentional and good and some way it was not. As I mentioned in my other post's example, even predicted damage is impossible to use for determining the value of a block because you can win the battle but still lose the war.

 

What you seem to be suggesting is equivalent to programmatically reviewing someone's gameplay video, but the program can only do what the programmer programmed it to do whereas what you need is real intelligence.

 

> EDIT: Just an example. I am using ArcDPS. Last few days in WvW roaming on my ranger I have tried to learn to use Smokescale smoke field not to blast it for stealth, but to use it to blind people. I would really appreciate to have a tool to tell me what attack I blinded. Just an example.

 

It may be in the per-skill tooltip in your damage taken overview. If not, I probably missed it and will add it to there in the future (either tooltip or by summary mouseover like in buffs stripped/removed).

 

Unrelated but since I see a lot of mentions of using personal-only stats for improvement in this thread: for the same reasons, there are too many variables to make it possible to assign a "how much weight do I give quickness" for directly increasing damage by attacking faster or "how much weight do I give stability" for indirectly increasing damage by skipping mechanics that would interrupt my rotation. Personal DPS (and any personal stat really), for the most part, is a function of the group so without knowing the group it's effectively worthless.

[zombyturtle.5980]

> @"Cynn.1659" said:

> **Dps meters need to be removed**

> Dps meters are the worst thing that has happened to this amazing game. They ruin all the fun for real playerbase,not even 1% of the players finished even one raid boss. Raids and dps meters bring nothing but toxic elitism to the game. You can't even have fun in tier one fractals these days, as someone will be insulting you for the way you play. Raids need to go away and dps meters need to be banned. Real part of the playerbase that keeps the game running plays open world. It's the best kind of content this game has to offer.

> **What does open world offer?**

> 1. Joy of exploration.

> 2. Teamwork of overcoming challenges.

> 3. People helping each other.

> 4. Gathering of useful resources..

> 5. Feeling like you are part of the big world, striving to make a difference.

>

> **What do raids offer?**

> 1. Toxic elitism that starts ruining the game for everyone.

>

> **What needs to change?**

> Arena Net Must stop wasting time on developing raids for less than 1% of the playebase composed of nothing but toxic elitists. We could be getting new open world maps every 1,5 months if it wasn't being for the developer time wasted on developing content that nobody plays. And we can't even try to join that content, because toxic elitists will kick anyone for anything they don't like. Ever since raids were introduced, the quality of the game has been getting worse.

>

>

> Arena Net please make this game great again, where we all can enjoy ourselves without being assaulted by toxicity from all angles.

>

 

I guess we better remove pvp and wvw too since people are toxic elitists there. Oh and auric basin too since people get toxic when one lane is killed too fast. Dont forget mad kings labyrinth, fighting over tagging mobs goes against gw2 design philosophy. /s

[Reverielle.3972]

> @"deadpool.7036" said:

> > @"Reverielle.3972" said:

> > There is more to combat than just DPS, it's a fairly misleading number that is often given too much weight. Now many players understand this, and know how to use it, but far more players don't understand it and it's appropriate application, leading to misuse, and abuse.

>

> There it is.

>

> Someone just stated that, in the current context, we are all decently aware that there's more than just DPS that plays a factor in group success, anyone who says or acts otherwise is a bit ignorant. DPS meter or not, ignorance cannot be done away with.

>

> So again, my proposal and desire is to at least have accurate, personal measurement of performance. My concern, is the lack or support. The problem, seems community driven.

>

> So let's say I'm recruiting for what is seemingly the most difficult content in the game... What process should I use to determine who to invite? Any current method (seems to be) as good as a coin toss.

>

> WoW suffers from this as well. Gear level, previous achievements, dps, class, even proof they've completed stuff that is more difficult.... Doesn't mean they will positively contribute to the group. And a lack of foresight can cause the next hour to be excruciatingly frustrating when you learn the player has probably been carried the entire way.

 

I understand what you're saying. and I guess in a way this is one reason why guild/parties/friend-lists evolved into what they are today: So we can attempt content together that is impossible to do alone, with others of like-mind and like-skill.

 

Recruiting randomly for such things is - and always will - be a gamble . Sometimes it turns out awful, sometimes it turns out amazing. I think a dps meter is not the answer (completely or partially) to such things - especially in this game where group damage is so intimately tied, not just to one player's ability, but the entire group/raid/squad.

[Dreamy Lu.3865]

I believe I am a good example to probably describe the most typical case of what happens with DPS meters: Hating it due to not knowing how much positive it can bring, then learning what can be done and discovering how supportive it is. Hereafter how was my experience with those tools.

 

Step 1 / Hate:

At first, I hated it, mainly based on all what I heard about (mainly: They bring toxicity), and also due to a few cases where I got kicked by guys using DPS and deciding my performances are not good enough.

 

Step 2 / Discovery:

I started learning raids and at same time, I became a bit more hardcore at WvW. I needed to learn playing certain classes and it was so difficult... Guildies then recommended me to use a DPS meter, so I can see:

- My own DPS based on what skills I used and combined.

- Best time to cast my DPS skills by seeing when experienced players with same class than me are casting (when their DPS goes up).

- How are my performances compared to experienced players with same class than me.

 

I decided to give it a go and I was really surprised: It was a bless!

I suddenly had in front of my eyes a tool showing me the performances of my skills concretely, and how they combine together. WOW! From there, I started to be able to improve and completely changed my mind about DPS meters. I could no more play without it for raids and WvW (I don't use it in PvE explorable).

 

Step 3 / Love:

I love DPS meters and can only recommend them. I agree on DPS meters used as a learning tool for self and as a supportive tool for a team, agreed by all team members, to practice together in order to reach a nice team performance (for raid or wvw for example).

I disagree when a DPS meter is misused to filter players and kick off some based on whoever decide that a performance is too low.

 

My personal opinion: Anet should integrate into the game the possibility:

- To see own DPS performance because it really incredibly helps.

- To share the data to others only if we want (tick/untick option "data sharing to team" for example).

That way, each of us would be free to use it or not, for self or within a team.

 

Until something like that does exist, each of us has to adapt behaviour around DPS meters. My recommendation to those who vote that they hate it: Give it a go. Try it and build up your opinion on a concrete experience, to see how good it is for self (and in team if you work in a team), when used properly as a supportive tool. It is understandable to hate it, but it is important to also understand that it brings lot of good too. It is all a matter of how we use it.

 

For DPS meters - like for any other tools - there will always be players misusing the tool for unfair purposes. There is not much we can do about that. There will always be players like that. And if it is not with DPS meters, it will be with something else. It is an utopia to believe that the toxic behavior are alone due to the use of DPS meters. No way. Toxic behaviours are due to people behaving toxic, with or without tools.

[Amerikajinn.4635]

> @"Cynn.1659" said:

> **Dps meters need to be removed**

> Dps meters are the worst thing that has happened to this amazing game. They ruin all the fun for real playerbase,not even 1% of the players finished even one raid boss. Raids and dps meters bring nothing but toxic elitism to the game. You can't even have fun in tier one fractals these days, as someone will be insulting you for the way you play. Raids need to go away and dps meters need to be banned. Real part of the playerbase that keeps the game running plays open world. It's the best kind of content this game has to offer.

> **What does open world offer?**

> 1. Joy of exploration.

> 2. Teamwork of overcoming challenges.

> 3. People helping each other.

> 4. Gathering of useful resources..

> 5. Feeling like you are part of the big world, striving to make a difference.

>

> **What do raids offer?**

> 1. Toxic elitism that starts ruining the game for everyone.

>

> **What needs to change?**

> Arena Net Must stop wasting time on developing raids for less than 1% of the playebase composed of nothing but toxic elitists. We could be getting new open world maps every 1,5 months if it wasn't being for the developer time wasted on developing content that nobody plays. And we can't even try to join that content, because toxic elitists will kick anyone for anything they don't like. Ever since raids were introduced, the quality of the game has been getting worse.

>

>

> Arena Net please make this game great again, where we all can enjoy ourselves without being assaulted by toxicity from all angles.

>

 

Woah buddy, sounds like you've got a bit of a bias there. Not only have you grossly under-represented what makes raids great you only focus on the positive for what you like and the negative for what you don't. It would be easy to flip that mindset and make open world look bad:

 

**What does open world offer?**

1. Pressing your auto-attack button and being part of a zerg of people where your own individual contribution makes little difference

 

**What do raids offer?**

1. The chance to learn and master a difficult encounter

2. The feeling of satisfaction when you defeat a boss you and a group have been working to learn for an extended period of time

3. A new level of depth of understanding that one can learn about their favorite profession/build

4. Unlocking of cool and unique cosmetic items

5. Feeling like you are part of a team that works together to overcome a difficult challenge.

 

However, just like yours this is an extremely unfair and biased view of these two forms of content, much like your view toward those who enjoy raids. I myself have spent large amounts of time both doing raids and helping to organize open world PvE events, offering help to Necromancer players by writing guides and teaching players fractals. Yet your comment places your assumption that I must be:

 

>nothing but [a] toxic elitist

 

Even beyond my own individual case, there are entire communities (like the [GW2 Raid Academy](https://www.gw2raidacademy.com)) that have built themselves around helping people learn raids. Are they toxic elitists as well?

 

Consider for a moment, if you berate and insult people that choose to play the game a different way does that not place you in the same category as those you're calling out for insulting people in tier one fractals? Both Open World and Raids are different ways for people to enjoy this game, and neither are mutually exclusive in terms of what people can and cannot enjoy playing. The quality of the game has not gotten worse since raids were added, you've chosen to only see the bad and completely miss the good.

 

DPS meters are much the same, if you only see the bad then of course they will look like the means toxic players use to belittle and demean others. However, there is just as much in the way of positivity that can be gained. People can use them to perform diagnostics, determine how effective certain combinations of skills are for a given situation, even see if one is able to provide the boons they want to help support a group. It's important to maintain a clear and unbiased view when looking at discussions like these.

 

[Laila Lightness.8742]

The dps meter is not issue then it comes to toxic behavior since people abuses instead of helping the underperfoming player improve and therefor improve the understanding .they kick wich makes a bad enviroment low dps is one thing wich can be helped to improve. Since we had toxic behavior before meter like in dungeons wich some proffesions was locked out for they were considered bad. Dps meter showed that these could do dps of decent numbers the meter is a tool its people who uses it who is issue after all.

[Maleman.7435]

> @"Cynn.1659" said:

 

> **What needs to change?**

> We could be getting new open world maps every 1,5 months if it wasn't being for the developer time wasted on developing content that nobody plays. And we can't even try to join that content, because toxic elitists will kick anyone for anything they don't like. Ever since raids were introduced, the quality of the game has been getting worse.

 

Careful what you wish for. I would rather support reworking of existing maps on a regular basis rather than new maps, or we'll start having problems with too many maps and the player base spread too thin. This can lead to dead regions.

[kharmin.7683]

I don't agree with DPS meters in principle but since I don't raid they really don't affect me. However, for those screaming about elitism and toxicity, there is nothing preventing you from creating your own non-DPS raid group.

 

/me shrugs

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Dreamy Lu.3865" said:

> I believe I am a good example to probably describe the most typical case of what happens with DPS meters: Hating it due to not knowing how much positive it can bring, then learning what can be done and discovering how supportive it is. Hereafter how was my experience with those tools.

>

> Step 1 / Hate:

> At first, I hated it, mainly based on all what I heard about (mainly: They bring toxicity), and also due to a few cases where I got kicked by guys using DPS and deciding my performances are not good enough.

>

> Step 2 / Discovery:

> I started learning raids and at same time, I became a bit more hardcore at WvW. I needed to learn playing certain classes and it was so difficult... Guildies then recommended me to use a DPS meter, so I can see:

> - My own DPS based on what skills I used and combined.

> - Best time to cast my DPS skills by seeing when experienced players with same class than me are casting (when their DPS goes up).

> - How are my performances compared to experienced players with same class than me.

>

> I decided to give it a go and I was really surprised: It was a bless!

> I suddenly had in front of my eyes a tool showing me the performances of my skills concretely, and how they combine together. WOW! From there, I started to be able to improve and completely changed my mind about DPS meters. I could no more play without it for raids and WvW (I don't use it in PvE explorable).

>

> Step 3 / Love:

> I love DPS meters and can only recommend them. I agree on DPS meters used as a learning tool for self and as a supportive tool for a team, agreed by all team members, to practice together in order to reach a nice team performance (for raid or wvw for example).

> I disagree when a DPS meter is misused to filter players and kick off some based on whoever decide that a performance is too low.

>

> My personal opinion: Anet should integrate into the game the possibility:

> - To see own DPS performance because it really incredibly helps.

> - To share the data to others only if we want (tick/untick option "data sharing to team" for example).

> That way, each of us would be free to use it or not, for self or within a team.

>

> Until something like that does exist, each of us has to adapt behaviour around DPS meters. My recommendation to those who vote that they hate it: Give it a go. Try it and build up your opinion on a concrete experience, to see how good it is for self (and in team if you work in a team), when used properly as a supportive tool. It is understandable to hate it, but it is important to also understand that it brings lot of good too. It is all a matter of how we use it.

>

> For DPS meters - like for any other tools - there will always be players misusing the tool for unfair purposes. There is not much we can do about that. There will always be players like that. And if it is not with DPS meters, it will be with something else. It is an utopia to believe that the toxic behavior are alone due to the use of DPS meters. No way. Toxic behaviours are due to people behaving toxic, with or without tools.

 

There are other ways to do that without the DPS meters people imagine.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

I would like an in-game DPS meter developed by ANET that displays personal DPS, logs, etc only.

 

I prefer this because:

1- it will be accurate

2- it will be approved and meet ANETs ToA.

3- it will be safe to use, install, and will not interfere with the game in any negative fashion.

 

 

 

[Laila Lightness.8742]

> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> I would like an in-game DPS meter developed by ANET that displays personal DPS, logs, etc only.

>

> I prefer this because:

> 1- it will be accurate

> 2- it will be approved and meet ANETs ToA.

> 3- it will be safe to use, install, and will not interfere with the game in any negative fashion.

>

>

>

 

It already exists combat log but you have to calculate the results yourself

[blambidy.3216]

Me personally the meters are fine till you get toxic within the game. I like them because it encourages me to get better with my rotations. It lets me look at who is not trying their best in raids.

 

But honestly I would truly like to see better information on it. Or a manual within the buff traits. How to determine if this number is better then this and why? It took me a month or 2 to understand the buff numbers in arc.

 

I just wish arenanet made them within the game. Like people told me gw1 already had build templates, but why is it not built into the game? I understand arc is safe but some people still don’t believe it. It would just be nice if they made an in game arc. In game build template. Etc.

 

The only thing I wish is a meter for healing. How much you should be healing everyone. How much 1 person never got healed, etc.

 

 

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

I'd like to see better support for meters in the game for a variety of reasons, but I don't think it would be a good use of ANet's time to support it. As long as @"deltaconnected.4058" and colleagues are able to support ArcDPS & GW2Radar etc, we have the tools we need to get better.

 

I'd rather ANet spent the similar resources shoring up the API for all the other things we need from it. It currently gets short-shrift.

 

 

****

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> We all know when we miss a dodge or eat that massive hit ... I don't need a meter for that.

I can guarantee "we" all don't know.

(That said, I agree with @"deltaconnected.4058"'s point that even with a near-ideal meter, we still wouldn't be able to measure everything important during the fight.)

 

 

 

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

The Original Poster for this thread took great care to craft a poll to generate feedback about DPS meters; let's try to respect that by staying on topic. There are plenty of other threads to discuss the popularity of raids and their importance to the game, the emphasis on fractal dungeons over traditional dungeons, and the allocation of resources towards fixing bugs, revamping older maps, etc.