Unseating the current Holy Trinity

[zealex.9410]

If only the engine could dedal with more 10 man buffs.

[Scipion.7548]

> @CptAurellian.9537 said:

> It hardly matters whether you have "official barriers" of the kind you suggest or not. That's just formalities. The question that matters is pretty simple: does the class have the tools to do the job? Currently, mesmers have an amazing toolkit for pseudo-tanking, while the other classes don't. Min-maxers just react to what the devs give them, so in any way it ends up with the devs.

 

Of course when I think about "official" roles it automatically bring the tools permitting the class doing its roles.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

All they need to do is make bosses that corrupt boons frequently.

[Azoqu.8917]

> @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said:

> All they need to do is make bosses that corrupt boons frequently.

 

Except the problem is not boons, it's class specific buffs that aren't boons. Therefore they can not be corrupted or countered in any way.

 

The honest easy way to solve this problem is do exactly what WoW did with it's buff system. Seperate every single buff into different categories and give each class access to the same amount of unique buffs but never more than anyone else. I believe WoW has 10 unique buffs and each class provides 3 of them. If you carted this over to GW2 you could have the following:

 

10% power damage

10% condition damage

Outgoing conditions stacks (Sun Spirit, Quickfire)

Life Leech

10% damage reduction (condition, power, or both)

Alacrity

 

There are others you could have but this is a general list. If this was the list, you could make it so each class gives out 2 of the buffs but never any more (eg. Chrono could toss out Alacrity meanwhile Mirage could have +condition damage with base Mesmer having a different boon but only 1). Anet could get even more crafty and have it so that each Specialization, base and elite, gives out 1 buff within the line so each class could currently have access to 7 unique buffs. If they did that then when making a group you just determine who is taking each buff in the raid and make sure you cover the X unique buffs in order to have full coverage. You'd still need a might stacker, a quickness bot, and a Healer but at least for those spots you have ele/cPS/DE/scourge, FB/chrono, and ele/druid/rev/guard.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

> @Azoqu.8917 said:

> > @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said:

> > All they need to do is make bosses that corrupt boons frequently.

>

> Except the problem is not boons, it's class specific buffs that aren't boons. Therefore they can not be corrupted or countered in any way.

>

> The honest easy way to solve this problem is do exactly what WoW did with it's buff system. Seperate every single buff into different categories and give each class access to the same amount of unique buffs but never more than anyone else. I believe WoW has 10 unique buffs and each class provides 3 of them. If you carted this over to GW2 you could have the following:

>

> 10% power damage

> 10% condition damage

> Outgoing conditions stacks (Sun Spirit, Quickfire)

> Life Leech

> 10% damage reduction (condition, power, or both)

> Alacrity

>

> There are others you could have but this is a general list. If this was the list, you could make it so each class gives out 2 of the buffs but never any more (eg. Chrono could toss out Alacrity meanwhile Mirage could have +condition damage with base Mesmer having a different boon but only 1). Anet could get even more crafty and have it so that each Specialization, base and elite, gives out 1 buff within the line so each class could currently have access to 7 unique buffs. If they did that then when making a group you just determine who is taking each buff in the raid and make sure you cover the X unique buffs in order to have full coverage. You'd still need a might stacker, a quickness bot, and a Healer but at least for those spots you have ele/cPS/DE/scourge, FB/chrono, and ele/druid/rev/guard.

 

None of those things would be an issue if you couldn't use boons in conjunction with them. Imagine a boss that utterly punished you for using *any* boons, it would completely change everything. I think the unique buffs are great, there should be more of them added to the other classes to bring them into line with classes that have them, everyone should be able to contribute to support, in a way not through boons.

[CptAurellian.9537]

> @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said:

> Imagine a boss that utterly punished you for using *any* boons, it would completely change everything.

 

Yeah, it would make for an absolutely horrible fight. Almost all classes are designed in a way that they passively fart out various boons, so you can't simply punish people for having boons.

[Bast Bow.2958]

> @Cyninja.2954 said:

> Ah yes, the easy solution to a way more complex problem.

>

> The core problem is not Mesmer, Warrior or Ranger at the moment, those classes being desired is just the result of said problem. **The core problem is and always will be peoples desire for maximum efficiency.** No amount of nerfing, rebalancing or changing will affect this (unless you actually get 2 classes to perform the exact same function within minimal difference to each other). Sure you might shake it up and have other classes take the place of current desired classes, but that would just mean exchanging class A for B.

>

> This is not unique to GW2 by the way. You can see it in any challenging game mode of MMOs (check WoW Mythic+ dungeons for example and how the meta changes there constantly too even though differences might be minimal between roles). The more difficult the content, the higher the demand for maximized group compositions as to reduce the chance of failure.

>

> Also prentending like this was not an issue at the start of GW2 is a pure lie. First off, there was no challenging game content at launch, and even the most challenging content (I'd go with dungeons before fractals were added) had a developing and established priority of which classes were prefered. The amount of maximisation simply increased with higher challenge. Fractals had a very clear optimal group preferance (and still do). Pretending like the game changed even though it did not will not do your argument good.

>

> My recommendation:

>

> - don't expect every class to be similar desired for raids, ever! It won't happen, ever.

> - wait until the new raid meta comes in within the next couple of weeks (after patches, nerfs, balance changes and playtesting of highend guild) before making any type of argument about change

> - play multiple classes (at least 1 desired class) if you are serious about raiding.

> - get good at things most people can't or won't do: Handkiting at Deimos, orbs at KC, tanking, etc. You get a very fast feeling for which things are desired the most, since those are usually the roles/classes you have to wait for the longest.

> - start leading your own raids with your own rules. The fights are by far easy enough to take suboptimal group compositions, especially when players are good at their class. I'd take a good necromancer over a poor elementalist anyday as dps for example.

 

This is the answer I think. There were similar discussions before and I stated the exact same as this poster. Totally agree.

 

[Bast Bow.2958]

delete this one please

 

 

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

> @CptAurellian.9537 said:

> > @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said:

> > Imagine a boss that utterly punished you for using *any* boons, it would completely change everything.

>

> Yeah, it would make for an absolutely horrible fight. Almost all classes are designed in a way that they passively fart out various boons, so you can't simply punish people for having boons.

 

I don't see why, you can build around minimal boons.

[Chadramar.8156]

That (edit: meaning people being punished for having boons) would be an absolutely terrible idea.

 

I agree that consolidating and streamlining the non-boon buffs as well as making them squad-wide would be much better -- along with an equally important close look at the DPS capacity of the classes that are currently only taken as support (or not at all).

[Windler.4815]

Look, I said this was a discussion. This is a suggestion and take it as that. The problem is that anet is giving more and more class specific buffs, instead of sticking to boons. If you're going to monopoly a powerful group buff to one profession, you're purposely tilting profession balance. Get rid of them. Anet is going down the same path that World of Warcraft figured out was not good practice. I know people hate when comparing games, but the reasoning is the same. Remember all the class specific buffs in WoW? Those are gone now. Anet needs to figure this out too.

[ArthurDent.9538]

Overall the problem is that basically all buffs and utility in the entire game can be covered by three classes with only a handful of negligible exceptions. The desire isn't to make them useless but to make them not always be best in slot by a massive margin for everything. Though to be frank I would like to see all 3 builds be suboptimal for once in their lives. Then they can use the lines that rev and necros players have gotten over the years of "the class is fine just not optimal for speed running" then we kick them from raid and fractal groups.

 

. Chrono has so much going for it currently between perma group quickness, perma group alacrity, the only group invulnerability, focus pull, reflects, huge cc, etc. Running without a chrono is simply too much of a handicap to call the spec balanced. Firebrand getting decent access to quickness is helping to remedy this mildly making chronoless comps maybe somewhat competitive but we will see.

 

On its own Druid is a very competitive healer that is about on par with ventari and water ele in regards to healing capabilities. Then they opted to give druid a massive number of unique group dps buffs so that it completely dominates its opposition by doing everything that they can do while allowing the group to do way more damage. PoF has done nothing to change the druid monopoly on healing as it still has all of its group buffs which nothing can compete with.

 

From what I gather, as long as a warrior can do 10k dps and place banners then it will not only be competitive but straight up optimal for any comp. That makes banners insanely overloaded in how much they add for such a boring passive mechanic. Of course warrior is doing about 3x the required 10k dps, and they still bring ps, empower allies, and great cc, so there really is just no reason to run without them ever.

[Zenith.7301]

> @CptAurellian.9537 said:

> The classes must have a dps spec, not necessarily each single elite spec (at least not a fully competitive one). We already have 18 of them, so we can't get all into a raid anyway. Rangers have their dps spec with soulbeast. Dunno whether mirage is capable of doing the job for mesmers, but in doubt, that's an issue specifically for the mesmer dev(s).

>

> Besides, there is _no_ justification for the 20% niche. It is technically possible to make it a 10% niche, which would be a much more healthy short-term solution to the entire issue.

 

Elite specs are for all intents and purposes always more powerful globally than core specs, so good luck with that balance. Also good luck shoving aside mesmer issues with a mesmer balance dev when this balance has been going on for 5 years already, so screw your nerfs until the changes actually manifest after 5+ years.

 

Condi soulbeast isn't even good. You see a 38-40k dps benchmark on a stationary large target golem. Go test condi soul beast on the latest bounties. If those bounty fights are an indicator of encounter design going forward, condi soulbeast is going to suck because condi soulbeast is basically condi ranger, but with a dagger. The bosses literally move prematurely out of all traps and the tiny bonfire fire fields 24/7, and force disengagement at times which also plummets condi ranger dps since shortbow for some stupid reason still requires flanking to apply bleeds, which screws with your raid positioning.

 

And in order to run condi soulbeast, you can't even bring spotter or spirits, which removes all raid utility.

 

Mirage is nowhere close to competitive, it's lagging behind the other condi specs by around 4k DPS, has no cleave whatsoever and significantly more ramp up.

 

You don't get to nerf classes until viable alternative specs exist for those classes. And they don't.

 

But of course this is coming from the crybaby guardian with several viable DPS specs, being the keystone class in WvW, and reigning as dragonhunter and firebrand in spvp. There is no class in a better position gamewide than guardian is, but somehow I don't see you campaigning for toning that game wise dominance down for guardians. No WvW group can run without guardians since they're the single source of group stability and mass CC and retaliation. Really no different from chrono dominance of support in PvE, and let's not forget once mesmer distortion share goes, Guardian is king supreme again with aegis for the group.

[Rennie.6750]

This is the wrong way to look at things. First, this isn't a class balance issue, it's a content design one. If raids were designed to not support tanking/healing/boon gameplay, then there would be no such things and it would be much more friendlier to most classes. Then, when you want class balance, never ask for buffs, you won't get them, and if you do, you'll simply alter the meta and make things worse, because the stronger boons are, the more complex it is to find alternatives. If anything, you should ask for a nerf of the classes that are too commonly seen as mandatory picks. I know a lot of people don't like nerfs but it's how it works in MMOs.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @Rennie.6750 said:

> This is the wrong way to look at things. First, this isn't a class balance issue, it's a content design one. If raids were designed to not support tanking/healing/boon gameplay, then there would be no such things and it would be much more friendlier to most classes. Then, when you want class balance, never ask for buffs, you won't get them, and if you do, you'll simply alter the meta and make things worse, because the stronger boons are, the more complex it is to find alternatives. If anything, you should ask for a nerf of the classes that are too commonly seen as mandatory picks. I know a lot of people don't like nerfs but it's how it works in MMOs.

 

It's not really a content design issue. Well, in a way it is, but not in a way you think.

 

You want the encounter to not support tanking? Then the boss has to not move, or move in a predefined pattern. Want it to not support healing? There cannot be any significant damage, neither on spike nor on pressure. No boons? Well, since boons are a significant boost to dps, then you'd want the dps in the encounter to not matter.

 

I can't think of many potential **raid** encounters where all of those might be true. Even on escort boons and healing are useful and, given the choice, you'd want them included.

 

And no, you don't want to nerf classes just because they are mandatory pick in raids, not unless you buff them first to be on equal terms with other classes _outside_ of their mandatory functions.

 

 

[Rennie.6750]

> @Astralporing.1957 said:

> > @Rennie.6750 said:

> > This is the wrong way to look at things. First, this isn't a class balance issue, it's a content design one. If raids were designed to not support tanking/healing/boon gameplay, then there would be no such things and it would be much more friendlier to most classes. Then, when you want class balance, never ask for buffs, you won't get them, and if you do, you'll simply alter the meta and make things worse, because the stronger boons are, the more complex it is to find alternatives. If anything, you should ask for a nerf of the classes that are too commonly seen as mandatory picks. I know a lot of people don't like nerfs but it's how it works in MMOs.

>

> It's not really a content design issue. Well, in a way it is, but not in a way you think.

>

> You want the encounter to not support tanking? Then the boss has to not move, or move in a predefined pattern. Want it to not support healing? There cannot be any significant damage, neither on spike nor on pressure. No boons? Well, since boons are a significant boost to dps, then you'd want the dps in the encounter to not matter.

>

> I can't think of many potential **raid** encounters where all of those might be true. Even on escort boons and healing are useful and, given the choice, you'd want them included.

>

> And no, you don't want to nerf classes just because they are mandatory pick in raids, not unless you buff them first to be on equal terms with other classes _outside_ of their mandatory functions.

>

>

 

It's a video game, anything can be done content-wise. Anything. A raid could be designed so that no boon works at all, or so that boons do not reach other party members, or really any kind of setting. Dungeons have no defined class setup. That would be a decent baseline for some different flavour of new raids if the devs don't want meta comps.

[Yasi.9065]

If you make all special buffs 10man in raids, we will end up with 9 buff speccs + 1 max dps guy. While that may seem fair to some, it would make pug raiding even more tedious.

 

Fact is, you can finish raids without meta comp. Which I think a lot of people dont have yet realized.

 

But if you want to really topple the "holy trinity of raids" in gw2, you have to take a look at the root of them problem... and thats because its the smallest possible support team providing the most dps increase.

 

Chrono brings invulns, blocks, 100% alacrity, 100% quickness and tanking capabilities.

Druid brings frost spirit, sun spirit, spotter, gotl, goe, cc pets, heals.

Warriors bring discipline banner, strength banner, EA, might, fury.

 

This means, you need to shuffle those things onto other professions, and I think PoF opened that a bit up, though the way it is, you will still need 1 druid, 1 ranger, at least 1 warrior and 1-2 chronos. With a quickness firebrand taking over the quickness part and chrono only providing alacrity anymore, you end up with 4 supporter instead of 3 ^^ Not really any toppling going on with that imo ;)

You can shuffle might and fury to druids with the new harrier set, but that still doesnt solve the banner and EA problem, and you'll end up just shuffling between the trinity professions anyway :>

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said:

> All they need to do is make bosses that corrupt boons frequently.

 

If they wanted to make fights which are annoying rather than fun to play - sure.

[Azoqu.8917]

> @Yasi.9065 said:

> If you make all special buffs 10man in raids, we will end up with 9 buff speccs + 1 max dps guy.

 

Not really, if you do the idea I had you'd only need to fill certain gaps with certain traitlines. If you gave each traitline a specific buff that doesn't stack with any other then you'd make sure to fill that and bring what you'd want otherwise. Take Guardian and Elementalist for example (classes I know the best):

 

Zeal = +10% power damage

Radiance = +5% crit chance

Valor = -10% damage taken

Honor = +10% healing

Virtues = -10% cool down reduction

Dragonhunter = +5% crit damage

Firebrand = +10% condition damage

 

Fire = +10% power damage

Water = +10% healing

Earth = -10% damage taken

Air = +5% crit chance

Arcane = +5% crit damage

Tempest = -10% cool down reduction

Weaver = +10% condition damage

 

This is an example of 7 unique buffs that are shared between 2 professions (I'd make 10 in total, like proccing conditions aka sun spirit) and you'd be able to take many combinations so long as you took each buff at least once. This would solve most of the buffing problems because banners, alacrity, spotter, EA, sun spirit, distortion (make it give aegis to others instead of invuln and share aegis around a bit more), and the others could all go burn in hell.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

> @Feanor.2358 said:

> > @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said:

> > All they need to do is make bosses that corrupt boons frequently.

>

> If they wanted to make fights which are annoying rather than fun to play - sure.

 

I suppose it would be if you were a mindless drone that can't make their own builds, instead of copy/pasting from other websites. I don't see how it would be annoying. To me it would be far more interesting to actually need to plan builds around boon corrupts and condition removal, rather than just stacking as much damage as possible. Every. Single. Time.

[SirPrizeBartSachs.4670]

> @Cristalyan.5728 said:

> > @Nokaru.7831 said:

> > Turn Alacrity into a Boon and make it more common. Delete GotL.

>

> Then you can very well delete the Mesmer from the game.

> **BUT** you forgot that the Alacrity is the **unique** mechanic (according to ANet) belonging **only** to the Chronomancer.

> ........ What you said? It belongs to the Revenants too? ... Hm.... At least only the mesmers have the Moa ! ..... What? The Engineers can hatch Moa also? GRRRR !! ..... Well, we still have the Port..... WHAT? Everyone can have the Portal? And with Adrenaline Mushroom they can use it without CD? Incredible !! GW2 is full of Mesmers?

>

> So, your statement is a little bit wrong. The correct one is: **Turn Alacrity into a Boon and make it more common. Delete the Mesmer**

 

I don't think the developers realized just how mandatory alacrity and quickness would become when they introduced it as the Chronomancer's unique shtick. Now that they realize it, you're seeing attempts to move away from the dominance of Chrono by giving Alacrity to Revenants, and Quickness to Firebrands. **At least this is much better than nerfing the gamechanging effects of Quickness and Alacrity altogether and making Chronomancer a competitive DPS class.**

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Quickness and Alacrity have a much larger % increase on DPS compared to Empower Allies, Spotter, GotL, Pinpoint Distribution? Is that why Mesmer is the only one that has its kit dissected and distributed to other classes, while the others keep their unique buffs?

 

 

[Cyninja.2954]

> @SirPrizeBartSachs.4670 said:

> > @Cristalyan.5728 said:

> > > @Nokaru.7831 said:

> > > Turn Alacrity into a Boon and make it more common. Delete GotL.

> >

> > Then you can very well delete the Mesmer from the game.

> > **BUT** you forgot that the Alacrity is the **unique** mechanic (according to ANet) belonging **only** to the Chronomancer.

> > ........ What you said? It belongs to the Revenants too? ... Hm.... At least only the mesmers have the Moa ! ..... What? The Engineers can hatch Moa also? GRRRR !! ..... Well, we still have the Port..... WHAT? Everyone can have the Portal? And with Adrenaline Mushroom they can use it without CD? Incredible !! GW2 is full of Mesmers?

> >

> > So, your statement is a little bit wrong. The correct one is: **Turn Alacrity into a Boon and make it more common. Delete the Mesmer**

>

> I don't think the developers realized just how mandatory alacrity and quickness would become when they introduced it as the Chronomancer's unique shtick. Now that they realize it, you're seeing attempts to move away from the dominance of Chrono by giving Alacrity to Revenants, and Quickness to Firebrands. **At least this is much better than nerfing the gamechanging effects of Quickness and Alacrity altogether and making Chronomancer a competitive DPS class.**

>

> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Quickness and Alacrity have a much larger % increase on DPS compared to Empower Allies, Spotter, GotL, Pinpoint Distribution? Is that why Mesmer is the only only that has its kit dissected and distributed to other classes, while the others keep their unique buffs?

>

>

 

I agree that I'd rather have more access to alacrity and quickness over multiple classes versus nerfing 1 class. Especially since mesmer has nothing to really fall back on for pve usefullness.

 

Quickness provides a good dps increase but is not as far away as many would like to believe. It is one of the most powerful boons, that is true. So are ferocity and 25 might stacks.

 

Alacritys actually damage increase is not as high as most people like to believe. It's also not the primary reason it gets taken along. Alacrity is brought along for it's rotation altering effect. Some class raid rotations are only achievable via alacrity and as such make it desirable.

 

 

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said:

> > @Feanor.2358 said:

> > > @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said:

> > > All they need to do is make bosses that corrupt boons frequently.

> >

> > If they wanted to make fights which are annoying rather than fun to play - sure.

>

> I suppose it would be if you were a mindless drone that can't make their own builds, instead of copy/pasting from other websites. I don't see how it would be annoying. To me it would be far more interesting to actually need to plan builds around boon corrupts and condition removal, rather than just stacking as much damage as possible. Every. Single. Time.

 

That you don't see it doesn't mean it would. Let me explain. First off, having to tailor your whole build just for one specific fight is already tedious. If we had build templates, this wouldn't be an issue. As it is - no thanks. Second, not being able to rely on buffs is an artificial way to make you fight a boss as if you're level 10 again. No, thanks. I prefer not to be locked out of a large part of the combat system of the game for no good reason. Third, condi pressure exists in raid bosses already, and it isn't countered by everyone adding cleanses to their builds. And it shouldn't. Enforcing a particular choice onto each and every build in a group is simply a terrible design.

 

Lastly, you're free not to maximize your damage if you choose to. You'll be less efficient, that's all. Do too much of that, across the group, and your fight will become a struggle. But it's still a valid choice to make. It is NOT, however, a valid choice to force on everyone.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

> @Feanor.2358 said:

> > @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said:

> > > @Feanor.2358 said:

> > > > @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said:

> > > > All they need to do is make bosses that corrupt boons frequently.

> > >

> > > If they wanted to make fights which are annoying rather than fun to play - sure.

> >

> > I suppose it would be if you were a mindless drone that can't make their own builds, instead of copy/pasting from other websites. I don't see how it would be annoying. To me it would be far more interesting to actually need to plan builds around boon corrupts and condition removal, rather than just stacking as much damage as possible. Every. Single. Time.

>

> That you don't see it doesn't mean it would. Let me explain. First off, having to tailor your whole build just for one specific fight is already tedious. If we had build templates, this wouldn't be an issue. As it is - no thanks. Second, not being able to rely on buffs is an artificial way to make you fight a boss as if you're level 10 again. No, thanks. I prefer not to be locked out of a large part of the combat system of the game for no good reason. Third, condi pressure exists in raid bosses already, and it isn't countered by everyone adding cleanses to their builds. And it shouldn't. Enforcing a particular choice onto each and every build in a group is simply a terrible design.

>

> Lastly, you're free not to maximize your damage if you choose to. You'll be less efficient, that's all. Do too much of that, across the group, and your fight will become a struggle. But it's still a valid choice to make. It is NOT, however, a valid choice to force on everyone.

 

Swapping some traits and or skills is neither tedious or annoying, it takes like 20s. Buffs are the artificial way to make fights trivial, having permanent everything on top of the class specific bonuses is absurd really. There is no reason to think they could not tailor the encounter around the players having no boons, or specifically, *trying* to have as few boons as possible. It's not enforcing every build to have condi clears, but it is forcing team composition choices to mitigate them as well as reducing the amount of boons you use, since they would be corrupted anyway.

 

Your last point goes both ways too, you could use boons in the "boonless" encounter, but you would have to deal with greatly increased condi pressure and healing requirements. It would just change the way you build the team for it. The DPS meta exists for a reason, because there are DPS checks, so that is the choice forced upon everyone, DPS as much as possible with as many boons as possible with as many unique buffs as possible.

 

How boring. It makes team composition boring and it makes gameplay boring because even adding different boss mechanics, you are essentially doing the exact same thing every single time with the same team every single time. Do as much DPS as possible, play the same rotations every time, over and over and over. Now, THAT is tedious.

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said:

> > @Feanor.2358 said:

> > > @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said:

> > > > @Feanor.2358 said:

> > > > > @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said:

> > > > > All they need to do is make bosses that corrupt boons frequently.

> > > >

> > > > If they wanted to make fights which are annoying rather than fun to play - sure.

> > >

> > > I suppose it would be if you were a mindless drone that can't make their own builds, instead of copy/pasting from other websites. I don't see how it would be annoying. To me it would be far more interesting to actually need to plan builds around boon corrupts and condition removal, rather than just stacking as much damage as possible. Every. Single. Time.

> >

> > That you don't see it doesn't mean it would. Let me explain. First off, having to tailor your whole build just for one specific fight is already tedious. If we had build templates, this wouldn't be an issue. As it is - no thanks. Second, not being able to rely on buffs is an artificial way to make you fight a boss as if you're level 10 again. No, thanks. I prefer not to be locked out of a large part of the combat system of the game for no good reason. Third, condi pressure exists in raid bosses already, and it isn't countered by everyone adding cleanses to their builds. And it shouldn't. Enforcing a particular choice onto each and every build in a group is simply a terrible design.

> >

> > Lastly, you're free not to maximize your damage if you choose to. You'll be less efficient, that's all. Do too much of that, across the group, and your fight will become a struggle. But it's still a valid choice to make. It is NOT, however, a valid choice to force on everyone.

>

> Swapping some traits and or skills is neither tedious or annoying, it takes like 20s. Buffs are the artificial way to make fights trivial, having permanent everything on top of the class specific bonuses is absurd really. There is no reason to think they could not tailor the encounter around the players having no boons, or specifically, *trying* to have as few boons as possible. It's not enforcing every build to have condi clears, but it is forcing team composition choices to mitigate them as well as reducing the amount of boons you use, since they would be corrupted anyway.

 

That depends entirely on the class you play. Sure if you are playing a random damage dealer who maybe switches out 1-2 traits and a skill here and there, not a big deal.

 

Now go play a mesmer properly and say that again. The amount of hassle is directly related to how much effort you are willing to put in, how much effort is required and what the expectations are towards your class.

 

Your argument about boons is simply incorrect. Boons add a layer of group composition. The fights are designed with maximum boons in mind. If a fight is to easy with maximum boons, then the scaling and difficulty is off, not the fact that players are prepared and have a good comp (same applies to food and utilities by the way, encounters are designed with those in mind). If you want harder content, that's fine, but then place the blame where it belongs, with the to easy design. Artificially declaring content to easy because of boons is incorrect.

 

> @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said:

>

> Your last point goes both ways too, you could use boons in the "boonless" encounter, but you would have to deal with greatly increased condi pressure and healing requirements. It would just change the way you build the team for it. The DPS meta exists for a reason, because there are DPS checks, so that is the choice forced upon everyone, DPS as much as possible with as many boons as possible with as many unique buffs as possible.

>

> How boring. It makes team composition boring and it makes gameplay boring because even adding different boss mechanics, you are essentially doing the exact same thing every single time with the same team every single time. Do as much DPS as possible, play the same rotations every time, over and over and over. Now, THAT is tedious.

 

I'm not sure how this has anything to do with boons. The entire GW2 gamedesign is around maximum damage while not taking damage or using active avoidance and positioning. This has been clear to everyone since the first dungeons speedruns 5 years ago went live. You are essentially unhappy with how combat in GW2 works. Has nothing to do with boons.