Commanders after losing a fight

[luzonophir.7134]

> @"Junkpile.7439" said:

> This game need npc commanders. Those would probably be much smarter than player commanders. :D

 

i've seen kraits dodging my rifle warrior's kill shot, centaurs in kessex hills evading my whirling axe and fucking mordrems in dragon stand fight like 1 level up to pro pvpers.

[gebrechen.5643]

> @"Zero.3871" said:

> > @"DanAlcedo.3281" said:

> > And thats why i want to see all allied players on the map as green dots.

> >

> > Where the kitten is everybody?!?!???!!

> >

>

> I HAVE FOUND THEM!!!! on spawn… Clearing their bank.

 

Nah, that's what I thought after seeing that 60 EBG queue last week. There were 5-10 people standing around at spawn and EB keep combined and the pin had 31 in his squad + 4. That still leaves a lot of numbers for roamers. Wonder where or what they roam.

I support the "like to see all allied players as dots on the map - thingie"

 

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @"gebrechen.5643" said:

> > @"Zero.3871" said:

> > > @"DanAlcedo.3281" said:

> > > And thats why i want to see all allied players on the map as green dots.

> > >

> > > Where the kitten is everybody?!?!???!!

> > >

> >

> > I HAVE FOUND THEM!!!! on spawn… Clearing their bank.

>

> Nah, that's what I thought after seeing that 60 EBG queue last week. There were 5-10 people standing around at spawn and EB keep combined and the pin had 31 in his squad + 4. That still leaves a lot of numbers for roamers. Wonder where or what they roam.

> I support the "like to see all allied players as dots on the map - thingie"

>

 

I guess I would ask what the real benefit of that would be?

 

I can honestly say enough commanders don’t like just anyone following them, and those that DO want them following them might just turn it into a toxic mess.

 

 

[Blackarps.1974]

The best ones are the ones that have 50/50 squads, lose 10 people on engage then are already back in their keeps from running while their slow players are still getting eaten alive.

[SkyShroud.2865]

Commanding isn't hard these days since you do not have call for blast. The only difficult part of commanding now is getting people to join you on coms. If you got tons of people on coms, you can easily roll people down, if you only got handful, not much different from pug zerg without com.

[zionophir.6845]

you don't even need comms to command coz i've seen a pug commander who doesn't even (spam) type his commands with mixed population of milita pwned Cloudfly's JQ strong group before.

 

and that commander only had 6 people in his squad. the rest, of course, are not in the squad.

[Trajan.4953]

> @"zionophir.6845" said:

> you don't even need comms to command coz i've seen a pug commander who doesn't even (spam) type his commands with mixed population of milita pwned Cloudfly's JQ strong group before.

>

> and that commander only had 6 people in his squad. the rest, of course, are not in the squad.

 

Random pugs vs. Random pugs are not really a good metric for a decent fight.

[zionophir.6845]

> @"Trajan.4953" said:

> > @"zionophir.6845" said:

> > you don't even need comms to command coz i've seen a pug commander who doesn't even (spam) type his commands with mixed population of milita pwned Cloudfly's JQ strong group before.

> >

> > and that commander only had 6 people in his squad. the rest, of course, are not in the squad.

>

> Random pugs vs. Random pugs are not really a good metric for a decent fight.

 

it was random pugs vs Cloudfly's guild and some JQ pugs.

 

You should've seen it. was EPIC.

 

well it was classified = For Our Eyes Only anyway so yeah.

 

Note: "Hidden Tactics"

[Lordz.4167]

> @"JusticeRetroHunter.7684" said:

> In my experience commanding and following other commanders, the majority of wipes happen because of

>

> A -Squirreling

> B -180 Retreating

> C -Bad positioning

>

> When commanders ignore their tail, especially while wandering in enemy territory while under siege, they won’t have enough numbers when engaging the enemy zerg(bad positioning) if you decide to squirrel around in said territory, and not engage and push the other zergs back line, then you’ll get picked off 1 by 1. If you squirrel about and then the enemy decides to push and THEN you 180 retreat, that’s how you wipe.

>

> This is the reason commanders lose fights most of the time. Sometimes what I see is the Zerg itself not understanding or following a commander who may actually be trying to push or gain a better position, but the Zerg won’t listen, and eventually the Zerg dies because of those three things mentioned above.

>

> When commanders say “get on tag” you should get on tag...because in most situations when you aren’t pushing on the tag you are just detrimental to the Zerg. If you notice a tag that pushes head on into another Zerg, it’s a sign of a bad commander. Good commanders will always push into the back line by circling around (forcing the enemy Zerg to move so that the tail is more obvious) and push straight into the tail, which usually forces an enemy retreat (which is when they wipe)

>

> If you notice in guild v guild Zerg battles it’s about 20 minutes of Zerg dance-off to try and get a good position and opportunity to reach into the tail. A good gvg Zerg will move so tightly that no tail will ever be present...which is why they are so deadly.

 

Well said. Bro

[ArchonWing.9480]

I love the fact that so many commanders don't realize that if you're 2 miles ahead of your zerg that the enemy will naturally all unload on the first thing in sight.

 

They still think they're being "sniped". Same goes for the backliner that's also somewhere in middle of the Pacific.

[avey.4201]

I block commanders who turn and run, may as well lay down and give them the kill, 10v20 you can run away and die with no kills, or hit them killing around 60% before you die.

[BadMed.3846]

I laugh at commanders who demand the map queue to join their squad or leave the map. Dude, I came to kill fireflies in EBG, let me do that!

 

Also, the worst commanders often just blame the pugs. Like the lost wolves on a kane stack.

[Inoki.6048]

> @"BadMed.3846" said:

> I laugh at commanders who demand the map queue to join their squad or leave the map. Dude, I came to kill fireflies in EBG, let me do that!

>

> Also, the worst commanders often just blame the pugs. Like the lost wolves on a kane stack.

 

sounds like Deso, Vabbi, WSR and a few others you're talking about.

[BadMed.3846]

> @"Inoki.6048" said:

> > @"BadMed.3846" said:

> > I laugh at commanders who demand the map queue to join their squad or leave the map. Dude, I came to kill fireflies in EBG, let me do that!

> >

> > Also, the worst commanders often just blame the pugs. Like the lost wolves on a kane stack.

>

> sounds like Deso, Vabbi, WSR and a few others you're talking about.

 

I'm sure it would be present there too. I was talking about NA. I'm sure most people on NA know what I'm talking about.

[Threather.9354]

> @"BadMed.3846" said:

> Also, the worst commanders often just blame the pugs. Like the lost wolves on a kane stack.

 

This is pretty much all the commanders these days. The level is so low., not just the commander, also the playerbase...

 

Great guilds are gone, there's some good ones left, and most active people bandvagon the moment they start losing fights thus almost no1 is keeping their own skilllevel.

 

For veteran decent commanders at this stage of game it is pretty obvious what corrupts do and which boons and conditions are important so they forget to explain this stuff to the new players. Then theres also mostly other commanders that have no clue what they're doing and can't tell difference of what will happen from moving left right back or front.

 

Anyways what I am saying is that commanders and communities should teach their players. Not only promote builds and voice comms but also explain how they work. It doesn't matter how many people you have on voice comms if you're not utilizing it. The group should get better every day regarding the game, not stay the same or regress...

 

 

[Odinens.5920]

If there's one thing I hate in WvW it's backseat commanders. There's really only one thing I say to them when I see them goin off on a commander in chat - Tag up or shut up!

 

It takes a certain amount of courage and confidence to tag up and have people follow you. Unless you have it, and are willing to show that you possess it, you can pretty much say hello to my block list, cuz I have no respect for you at that point, and couldn't care less what else you may have to say.

[LetoII.3782]

Nobody likes backseat drivers

Hence the phrase

[Odinens.5920]

> @"BadMed.3846" said:

> > @"Odinens.5920" said:

> > If there's one thing I hate in WvW it's backseat commanders.

> On the contrary, I hate dumb people who would defend bad commanders. It's like blind faith and religious to them that they defy all logic. One must use their own judgement.

>

> Even bigger idiots are the ones who demand that backstage commanders should tag up. Why? If I criticise the president it doesn't mean I should run for president. Get over it! A bad commander is a bad commander. Take it on the chin and learn to play.

>

>

 

People make bad decisions. Do you call out good commanders when they make them? Probably not. It's called taking orders, good OR bad, and anyone that's ever been in the military (since you'd like to compare this to a real world scenario) will tell you the military is the least democratic organization in the world. You don't get to vote on an order. Just like following a commander, you don't get a vote....if you don't like the way he's driving you can leave or tag up and try to do better yourself.

 

Criticizing commanders in team or map chat does nothing but discourage newer commanders from continuing to learn and command, and keeps people that have never tagged from wanting to, due to inconsiderate people being toxic to their every move.

 

Fewer commanders = fewer people following anybody, and that means people new to WvW are less likely to stay.

[XatraZaytrax.2601]

I leave a commander for a couple of reasons.

1. They never fully commit to a fight. They sort of get in there and then run away. They throw up siege and run away if there is the slightest opposition. And it is no because they are responding to a call out. I don't find that fun.

2. As part of number 1, I leave when commanders abandon their zerg. It will seem like we've committed to a fight or objective, and you follow the commander into the fray or jump on siege cause you have maxed stats and a can do good damage with the siege. Then you die because the commander veered off and is running from the fight, everyone who committed to the fight or working the siege are left to die.

I hear you say, it is your fault. You weren't paying attention or not on teamspeak or whatever is being used. Maybe true, but I've had bad luck with headphones -- mostly my cat finding them delicious and I don't want some of the conversations that take place blasting through my speakers.

Which brings me to ...

3. Insistence on only communicating in voice chat, making it hard to follow if you don't use it.

4. Insistence that if you don't have the right build, armor, or class you have no business in wvw. I've wvw'ed since launch. I think I make a good pug. I can hold

5. I know what I am doing and have quietly led fellow roamers to so pretty awesome feats.

I agree one doesn't need to abuse commanders. They are trying and I always give them multiple chance. Some improve. But if they don't they will find themselves zerging alone.

[BadMed.3846]

Each to their own I guess. Some people like being minions.

Btw, military ranks are not 300g a piece. It's different.

[ArchonWing.9480]

> @"BadMed.3846" said:

> > @"Odinens.5920" said:

 

> Even bigger idiots are the ones who demand that backstage commanders should tag up. Why? If I criticise the president it doesn't mean I should run for president. Get over it! A bad commander is a bad commander. Take it on the chin and learn to play.

>

>

 

Nah. It's more like if you criticize the president by asking him why doesn't he just fire Congress. In that case, you don't even understand what a president can or cannot do, and are simply talking because you want to be heard.

 

Remember, you both can be terrible and that's what people are really seeing. Bad commanders should indeed take feedback, but not all feedback is useful.

 

Finally, why are people idiots for weighing between having a bag tag or no tag at all? You don't provide any benefit to them and if you logged off they wouldn't care. In fact, it'd be a net benefit to them. Just because they're protecting their own interests doesn't make them idiots.

[Odinens.5920]

> @"BadMed.3846" said:

> Each to their own I guess. Some people like being minions.

> Btw, military ranks are not 300g a piece. It's different.

 

Paying for a tag and using it are 2 different things. I've had a tag for almost a year but only use it in PvE. What's your point?

[BadMed.3846]

> @"Odinens.5920" said:

> > @"BadMed.3846" said:

> > Each to their own I guess. Some people like being minions.

> > Btw, military ranks are not 300g a piece. It's different.

>

> Paying for a tag and using it are 2 different things. I've had a tag for almost a year but only use it in PvE. What's your point?

 

Everyone using it is not a good commander. Everyone on map has every right to be honest enough to say it and refuse to follow. You like it or not, it's your problem. Sort it out yourself.

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @"BadMed.3846" said:

> > @"Odinens.5920" said:

> > > @"BadMed.3846" said:

> > > Each to their own I guess. Some people like being minions.

> > > Btw, military ranks are not 300g a piece. It's different.

> >

> > Paying for a tag and using it are 2 different things. I've had a tag for almost a year but only use it in PvE. What's your point?

>

> Everyone using it is not a good commander. Everyone on map has every right to be honest enough to say it and refuse to follow. You like it or not, it's your problem. Sort it out yourself.

 

Point wasn’t about refusing to follow or not.

 

Point was the map/team chat verbal sniping of people trying.

[Shroud.2307]

> @"ArchonWing.9480" said:

> Remember, you both can be terrible and that's what people are really seeing. Bad commanders should indeed take feedback, but not all feedback is useful.

 

I appreciate this statement.