Inoki.6048 Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 > @"Odinens.5920" said: > > @"BadMed.3846" said: > > > @"Odinens.5920" said: > > > If there's one thing I hate in WvW it's backseat commanders. > > On the contrary, I hate dumb people who would defend bad commanders. It's like blind faith and religious to them that they defy all logic. One must use their own judgement. > > > > Even bigger idiots are the ones who demand that backstage commanders should tag up. Why? If I criticise the president it doesn't mean I should run for president. Get over it! A bad commander is a bad commander. Take it on the chin and learn to play. > > > > > > People make bad decisions. Do you call out good commanders when they make them? Probably not. It's called taking orders, good OR bad, and anyone that's ever been in the military (since you'd like to compare this to a real world scenario) will tell you the military is the least democratic organization in the world. You don't get to vote on an order. Just like following a commander, you don't get a vote....if you don't like the way he's driving you can leave or tag up and try to do better yourself. > > Criticizing commanders in team or map chat does nothing but discourage newer commanders from continuing to learn and command, and keeps people that have never tagged from wanting to, due to inconsiderate people being toxic to their every move. > > Fewer commanders = fewer people following anybody, and that means people new to WvW are less likely to stay. ^ this summed it up nicely. Who in their right mind would waste their time leading ungrateful, unappreciative, abusive, or just toxic people, who btw. can't be arsed to join voice comms and cooperate? Why would you do this to yourself. Reasons listed here are the ones I stopped tagging publicly and just roam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderPanda.1872 Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 > @"BadMed.3846" said: > > @"Odinens.5920" said: > > > @"BadMed.3846" said: > > > Each to their own I guess. Some people like being minions. > > > Btw, military ranks are not 300g a piece. It's different. > > > > Paying for a tag and using it are 2 different things. I've had a tag for almost a year but only use it in PvE. What's your point? > > Everyone using it is not a good commander. Everyone on map has every right to be honest enough to say it and refuse to follow. You like it or not, it's your problem. Sort it out yourself. I'm not sure if you're using freedom of speech in the right way. I think the correct term is harassment and cyberbullying. There are proper ways to voice your disagreement, but calling and raging on map chat calling people 'dumb' is not the correct way to go. Please accept the fact that no one, even yourself, is always correct, and stop calling every other opinion 'dumb' just because you don't agree with it. If you truly believe your opinion is always right, then tag up and prove to us all that you are a genius commander. Maybe people will then start taking your opinions seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadMed.3846 Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 > @"ThunderPanda.1872" said: > > @"BadMed.3846" said: > > > @"Odinens.5920" said: > > > > @"BadMed.3846" said: > > > > Each to their own I guess. Some people like being minions. > > > > Btw, military ranks are not 300g a piece. It's different. > > > > > > Paying for a tag and using it are 2 different things. I've had a tag for almost a year but only use it in PvE. What's your point? > > > > Everyone using it is not a good commander. Everyone on map has every right to be honest enough to say it and refuse to follow. You like it or not, it's your problem. Sort it out yourself. > > I'm not sure if you're using freedom of speech in the right way. I think the correct term is harassment and cyberbullying. There are proper ways to voice your disagreement, but calling and raging on map chat calling people 'dumb' is not the correct way to go. > > Please accept the fact that no one, even yourself, is always correct, and stop calling every other opinion 'dumb' just because you don't agree with it. > > If you truly believe your opinion is always right, then tag up and prove to us all that you are a genius commander. Maybe people will then start taking your opinions seriously. I would suggest that you stop making dumb' assumptions. People react differently in map chat. I'm simply saying it's ok to say that the commander is bad if they are constantly doing the wrong thing and feeding bags. Cyberbullying and harassment are at a completely different level. I think those retaliating and supporting the commander often end up cyberbullying. Once again, telling people to tag up to prove a point is extremely dumb. If I don't appreciate someone's performance, it doesn't mean I should prove myself to be a good performer too. Critics are everywhere. Learn from them. Read and understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadMed.3846 Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > > @"BadMed.3846" said: > > > @"Odinens.5920" said: > > > > @"BadMed.3846" said: > > > > Each to their own I guess. Some people like being minions. > > > > Btw, military ranks are not 300g a piece. It's different. > > > > > > Paying for a tag and using it are 2 different things. I've had a tag for almost a year but only use it in PvE. What's your point? > > > > Everyone using it is not a good commander. Everyone on map has every right to be honest enough to say it and refuse to follow. You like it or not, it's your problem. Sort it out yourself. > > Point wasn’t about refusing to follow or not. > > Point was the map/team chat verbal sniping of people trying. Yes. Everytime I see someone complaining about the commander in team or map chat, the minions start retaliating. Verbal sniping is very subjective. Truth often penetrates egoistic commanders and their followers faster than the average 'pug' out there; who is expected to take any sort of verbal sniping from commanders. If someone is bullying or gets verbally abusive, use the reporting mechanism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUDse.7623 Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 there is no requirement in game knowledge or experience to activate a tag in WvW and you dont need any sort of approval from your team to be allowed to tag. therefor a commander might not always be worth follwing. i dont get how some commanders can demand everyone on the map to follow them, when them being a commander has so little requirements. can also tag up for solo roaming if i need a tag to justify my actions on a map. but as long as commander doesnt demand you to follow him, there is little reason to tell em what they should do unless they specifically ask for advise, just dont follow if you think its not worth your time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Pj.2193 Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 And what good do you do by ‘calling out’ said ‘egoistic’ commander? Just don’t follow them. It’s quite easy. You mention the ‘block’ function. It works quite well I agree. Which, if that is your general thought, why worry about calling it out in map chat? To convince others not to follow the commander? As was said earlier, do what you wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchonWing.9480 Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 > @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said: > > @"ArchonWing.9480" said: > > Remember, you both can be terrible and that's what people are really seeing. Bad commanders should indeed take feedback, but not all feedback is useful. > > I appreciate this statement. Yea, a lot of people go "I'm just voicing my opinion", which is fine, but too many of them are also the "A for effort, everyone gets a ribbon people" who think they have something to share means it's as equally as valid as everyone else's opinion. They just have to realize they're not that special either. The rest of the people just see 2 bads arguing. Just play the game already! ;) > @"MUDse.7623" said: > there is no requirement in game knowledge or experience to activate a tag in WvW and you dont need any sort of approval from your team to be allowed to tag. therefor a commander might not always be worth follwing. i dont get how some commanders can demand everyone on the map to follow them, when them being a commander has so little requirements. can also tag up for solo roaming if i need a tag to justify my actions on a map. but as long as commander doesnt demand you to follow him, there is little reason to tell em what they should do unless they specifically ask for advise, just dont follow if you think its not worth your time. I wish you could block spam invites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobbah.3102 Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 > @"ArchonWing.9480" said: > I love the fact that so many commanders don't realize that if you're 2 miles ahead of your zerg that the enemy will naturally all unload on the first thing in sight. > > They still think they're being "sniped". Same goes for the backliner that's also somewhere in middle of the Pacific. hey I am in the middle of the Pacific ,so that must be the problem ,nope couldnt be I'm frontline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobbah.3102 Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 > @"XatraZaytrax.2601" said: > I leave a commander for a couple of reasons. > 1. They never fully commit to a fight. They sort of get in there and then run away. They throw up siege and run away if there is the slightest opposition. And it is no because they are responding to a call out. I don't find that fun. > 2. As part of number 1, I leave when commanders abandon their zerg. It will seem like we've committed to a fight or objective, and you follow the commander into the fray or jump on siege cause you have maxed stats and a can do good damage with the siege. Then you die because the commander veered off and is running from the fight, everyone who committed to the fight or working the siege are left to die. > I hear you say, it is your fault. You weren't paying attention or not on teamspeak or whatever is being used. Maybe true, but I've had bad luck with headphones -- mostly my cat finding them delicious and I don't want some of the conversations that take place blasting through my speakers. > Which brings me to ... > 3. Insistence on only communicating in voice chat, making it hard to follow if you don't use it. > 4. Insistence that if you don't have the right build, armor, or class you have no business in wvw. I've wvw'ed since launch. I think I make a good pug. I can hold > 5. I know what I am doing and have quietly led fellow roamers to so pretty awesome feats. > I agree one doesn't need to abuse commanders. They are trying and I always give them multiple chance. Some improve. But if they don't they will find themselves zerging alone. Hmm number 3 must be the problem deafness must be the drawback because I cant hear what they are yelling. If you dont like the style do not follow , problem solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchonWing.9480 Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Wait do commanders really run away from their own zergs? And if they ran away, shoudn't you follow instead of trying to 1v50 the other zerg? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavyne.6847 Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 I find it funny the commanders always blaming the "pugs" when their own guild members are dying first and more often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchonWing.9480 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 Yea, them and their super secret comp that's probably worse than what's found on metabattle. I even heard of builds where Stand Your Ground isn't used for frontline guardian. :open_mouth: It's actually pretty pathetic if you lose because of pugs. You should never as a organized group let the pugs outlast you since you monoplized the boon share. Pugs should be dead before they have any time to rallybot. It's the bads in the squads that are rallybotting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trajan.4953 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 > @"gavyne.6847" said: > I find it funny the commanders always blaming the "pugs" when their own guild members are dying first and more often. That would be because their Guild members are staying on tag and pushing while the rest of the pugs are usually scattered and out in Africa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadMed.3846 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > And what good do you do by ‘calling out’ said ‘egoistic’ commander? > You tell the server population to not feed bags following someone incapable of taking the team to victory. > Just don’t follow them. It’s quite easy. > Not enough. Why should it be? Have you not heard commanders telling players to get off map and call out rallybots? Then why treat bad commanders differently. > You mention the ‘block’ function. It works quite well I agree. > Sure. Ok. Well. > Which, if that is your general thought, why worry about calling it out in map chat? To convince others not to follow the commander? > Absolutely. I care about their bags too. We're a team after all. > As was said earlier, do what you wish. Yes. Thats a given! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Pj.2193 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 > @"BadMed.3846" said: > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > > And what good do you do by ‘calling out’ said ‘egoistic’ commander? > > > You tell the server population to not feed bags following someone incapable of taking the team to victory. > > > Just don’t follow them. It’s quite easy. > > > Not enough. Why should it be? Have you not heard commanders telling players to get off map and call out rallybots? Then why treat bad commanders differently. > > > You mention the ‘block’ function. It works quite well I agree. > > > Sure. Ok. Well. > > > Which, if that is your general thought, why worry about calling it out in map chat? To convince others not to follow the commander? > > > Absolutely. I care about their bags too. We're a team after all. > > > As was said earlier, do what you wish. > Yes. Thats a given! > So, you would be willing to do this to a new commander who is going through growing pains. And likely one of the first to complain that their are no commanders in map. Look, toxic commanders deserve issues. I ignore them. And continue on map, if I do choose. But chasing off, and don’t pretend that what you describe wouldn’t, people trying to learn how to be a commander is hurtful to the whole mode. You’re fooling yourself or outright trolling if you even state otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odinens.5920 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 > @"BadMed.3846" said: > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > > > Which, if that is your general thought, why worry about calling it out in map chat? To convince others not to follow the commander? > > > Absolutely. I care about their bags too. We're a team after all. > Which is it, you're a team, or aren't you? Because I've never heard a wide receiver in the middle of a game call out his quarterback for throwing an incomplete pass. They may have words on the sidelines or to each other on the field, where nobody else can hear them, but they aren't gonna go in front of the camera and say "this guy sucks, don't follow him." You want to be a team player then act like one. PM that commander and give him feedback. Calling him out in map/team chat doesn't help anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadMed.3846 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 I get it as some of you love to keep quiet and others feel like you're in the forces and must obey the orders; however, some of us are capable enough to use our brains and share our views. There's nothing stopping that. At least, not the "tag up yourself then" lame argument. Criticising is OK. Verbal abuse and cyber bullying is NOT. I am well within my rights to directly advise a commander, on map of team chat, that it's them who's responsible for the loss and not the pugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juno.1840 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 > @"BadMed.3846" said: > > @"Odinens.5920" said: > > If there's one thing I hate in WvW it's backseat commanders. > On the contrary, I hate dumb people who would defend bad commanders. It's like blind faith and religious to them that they defy all logic. One must use their own judgement. > > Even bigger idiots are the ones who demand that backstage commanders should tag up. Why? If I criticise the president it doesn't mean I should run for president. Get over it! A bad commander is a bad commander. Take it on the chin and learn to play. > Do you call the president directly and explain to them how they are screwing things up?.. and then post that entire conversation in all the major news papers? Because that's what you're doing to the commander. Otherwise your analogy amounts to criticizing the commander with your microphone off -- which means your analogy was garbage. Sounds to me like you, BadMed, are not quite mature enough to understand how to be a good leader. If you were serious about the game mode and making it better, you'd realize that your actions are counter productive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadMed.3846 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 > @"juno.1840" said: > > @"BadMed.3846" said: > > > @"Odinens.5920" said: > > > If there's one thing I hate in WvW it's backseat commanders. > > On the contrary, I hate dumb people who would defend bad commanders. It's like blind faith and religious to them that they defy all logic. One must use their own judgement. > > > > Even bigger idiots are the ones who demand that backstage commanders should tag up. Why? If I criticise the president it doesn't mean I should run for president. Get over it! A bad commander is a bad commander. Take it on the chin and learn to play. > > > > Do you call the president directly and explain to them how they are screwing things up?.. and then post that entire conversation in all the major news papers? Because that's what you're doing to the commander. Otherwise your analogy amounts to criticizing the commander with your microphone off -- which means your analogy was garbage. > > Sounds to me like you, BadMed, are not quite mature enough to understand how to be a good leader. If you were serious about the game mode and making it better, you'd realize that your actions are counter productive. I can see your maturity level right up in your post there kid. You follow your president. I'll be pragmatic and play the game as a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiri.4257 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 > @"BadMed.3846" said: > I get it as some of you love to keep quiet and others feel like you're in the forces and must obey the orders; however, some of us are capable enough to use our brains and share our views. There's nothing stopping that. At least, not the "tag up yourself then" lame argument. > Criticising is OK. Verbal abuse and cyber bullying is NOT. I am well within my rights to directly advise a commander, on map of team chat, that it's them who's responsible for the loss and not the pugs. The capacity of a new commander's brain vs a pug brain are rather similar. perhaps you can organize a community think tank of backseat drivers? hopefully it will include our finest keyboard warriors on these forums! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadMed.3846 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 > @"shiri.4257" said: > The capacity of a new commander's brain vs a pug brain are rather similar. perhaps you can organize a community think tank of backseat drivers? hopefully it will include our finest keyboard warriors on these forums! I'd actually love to do it if I wasn't time poor. However, there is a reason I'm defending backseat drivers. I often see several guildies and friends of commanders jump on as map chat warriors to defend their incapable commanders. I think it's horrible to do so when that one individual is just trying to make a direct point. Truth is bitter! Sometimes I've seen commanders accept their fault and acknowledge it in chat. Things go quite well then. Let's learn to have honest conversations as opposed to sticking with political agendas and behaving like mindless minions. There's nothing wrong with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oOStaticOo.9467 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 One could also think of some of these "backseat drivers" as more like Driving Instructors. Giving advice on how to properly do something instead of ignoring it and allowing for bad driving behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Pj.2193 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Actually it’s more like your 12 y/o kid telling you How to drive despite never having done it themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oOStaticOo.9467 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Actually it's more like an observant middle aged person trying to teach a teen-ish know-it-all who refuses to listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Pj.2193 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Who has never driven. Doesn’t change the analogy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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