Superior Runes of Sanctuary & Abrasive Grit [merged]

[Ganathar.4956]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"Ganathar.4956" said:

> > > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > > @"cylin.7048" said:

> > > > Weaver needs no nerf, only this specific rune.

> > >

> > > I believe scourges were saying the exact same thing before the nerf bat fell.

> >

> > Looks like it's time for Anet to put PvP ele out of it's misery. RIP

>

> This wouldn't be an especialy wise decision but let's be honest, a runeset that can grant up to 1 minute of swiftness thanks to evading damage is certainly not broken in ANet's view. After all metric show that it is pretty easy for most of the profession to stack 1 minute of swiftness by themself already, so how can this be an issue?

 

Don't forget, if they nerf the rune of evasion eles can just switch to antitoxin runes to double their condi cleanse instead. Since the vast majority of ele cleansing comes from cleansing water and woven stride, it almost gets doubled because each application of these traits cleanses 1 condition. Time to finally finish off the class and make sure that it's never played again.

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Ganathar.4956" said:

> Don't forget, if they nerf the rune of evasion eles can just switch to antitoxin runes to double their condi cleanse instead. Since the vast majority of ele cleansing comes from cleansing water and woven stride, it almost gets doubled because each application of these traits cleanses 1 condition. Time to finally finish off the class and make sure that it's never played again.

 

Antitoxin is tamed compared to runes of evasions, I don't think they would be a real issue on ele. No, I think we should worry more about all those runeset that increase the health pool by 10%, it will obviously make elementalists way to tanky. :)

[Lily.1935]

I really don't like this situation.

 

Here's a better idea. Why not instead of nerfing necromancer support.... AGAIN! *HIGH PITCHED EAR PIERCING SCREAMING!* Instead of doing that. Why don't you change the runes of Sanctuary from healing causes barrier to barrier grants health to you and allies you apply it to. Or stability, or might, or protection. Or constantly nerf necromancer... Whichever... I'm not salty. *FLIPS TABLE AND BREALS A DESK!* Anet, seriously, stop it with this backwards balance.

 

Also, for those wondering about my previous post. I wasn't advocating for necro nerfs. No. More for other rune buffs and changes. Also I'm usually for unique changes, not harmful ones like this.

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Lily.1935" said:

> I really don't like this situation.

>

> Here's a better idea. Why not instead of nerfing necromancer support.... AGAIN! *HIGH PITCHED EAR PIERCING SCREAMING!* Instead of doing that. Why don't you change the runes of Sanctuary from healing causes barrier to barrier grants health to you and allies you apply it to. Or stability, or might, or protection. Or constantly nerf necromancer... Whichever... I'm not salty. *FLIPS TABLE AND BREALS A DESK!* Anet, seriously, stop it with this backwards balance.

>

> Also, for those wondering about my previous post. I wasn't advocating for necro nerfs. No. More for other rune buffs and changes. Also I'm usually for unique changes, not harmful ones like this.

 

I'd vote for: 6th bonus - apply regeneration (2s) whenever you apply barrier. No ICD.

After all, why would a rune with boon duration have a 6th bonus totally unrelated to boons.

[felincyriac.5981]

it comes to a point when it's impossible to keep track of ICD's, since they are hidden. The UI needs to be reworked, to incorporate this type of information. Ofc the better solution would have been something more intuitive than slapping an ICD on it, but I've come to realise the balancing in this game is a bit of joke so I digress.

[Lily.1935]

> @"felincyriac.5981" said:

> it comes to a point when it's impossible to keep track of ICD's, since they are hidden. The UI needs to be reworked, to incorporate this type of information. Ofc the better solution would have been something more intuitive than slapping an ICD on it, but I've come to realise the balancing in this game is a bit of joke so I digress.

 

Yes, we need more UI bloat.

[TexZero.7910]

> @"cylin.7048" said:

> Weaver needs no nerf, only this specific rune. Weaver just has the problem that a certain super high skilled pro keeps on posting the best of his fights so everyone thinks thats how weavers usually roll. They don't.

 

Good joke. Ele needs this change because the rune is OP on 1/27 specs. Clearly it's the real logical winner to nerf the trait and not the rune interacting with it because that would lead to individual player frustrations on not being able to control when it procs. Because you know our playerbase has all that individual knowledge readily available to them on the best UI to exist. Anet knows we're just that dang good, that they'd rather blame the player than the systems team who designed a bad system.

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Hitman.5829" said:

> > @"Conqueror.3682" said:

> > > @"Hitman.5829" said:

> > > That trait was too OP to start with.

> > > It removes conditions, it grants might, and it does all that to allies as well.

> >

> > It was never OP because we dont had that frecuency to get barriers, what are you talking about?

> >

> > The solution was to nerf the rune, no the trait. They buffed the might for compensation, but the condition removal stays the same.

> >

> > So, remove a condition every 5 seconds, what a dumb solution...

>

> Have you counted the number of necros in WvW?

> Multiply each by 5 and you get the number of allies affected by this trait.

> The trait was OP and it needed nerfing.

>

> Im surprise it took anet this long to nerf this trait.

 

So with this logic you need to nerf guard like crazy. Empower heals and gives might per pulse. At 5 targets. Op op op!!!

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Hot Boy.7138" said:

> someone made a joke that they would nerf necro instead of nerfing the rune. Crazy how they actually did just that.

 

Actually. That was me and it wasn't a joke. That's just how anet works:

Only doing minimal work without having to think too much.

 

There were so many good proposals, how to change the rune (make it not trigger on lifesteal, make it only trigger for heals above a certain threshhold)

But you know, that would have required work.

And they chose to not do anything so they nerfed the trait.

 

But just that they forgot to maybe see the interaction with this trait when implementing such a rune, shows how incompetent they are.

 

I feel like we players know more about their game, than they do themselves.

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > @"cylin.7048" said:

> > Weaver needs no nerf, only this specific rune. Weaver just has the problem that a certain super high skilled pro keeps on posting the best of his fights so everyone thinks thats how weavers usually roll. They don't.

>

> Good joke. Ele needs this change because the rune is OP on 1/27 specs. Clearly it's the real logical winner to nerf the trait and not the rune interacting with it because that would lead to individual player frustrations on not being able to control when it procs. Because you know our playerbase has all that individual knowledge readily available to them on the best UI to exist. Anet knows we're just that dang good, that they'd rather blame the player than the systems team who designed a bad system.

 

In reality this rune is nothing similar to the whole scourge issue.

Evasion rune is strong on weaver yes but it is limited for starters only 1 condition can be removed per second with the setup and I think only one of their skills evades for 2 seconds or something. So for starters the amount of conditions removed is limited by how many dodges and evades a person can do. Weaver just happens to have a good number of them.

 

In reality though people point out weaver when this rune could be even more broken on daredevil who can achieve a similar setup and is less limited by cooldowns on dodges also removing multiple conditions on evading an attack.

 

This rune is strong on a few professions... heck even core warrior dodge just as much as a daredevil does (the good ones anyways) can abuse this rune for insane condition clear along side weapon swap clearing.

 

But seriously the biggest differences that **rune of evasions potential is limited to the number of evades a profession can do** unlike abrasive grit which had no limitations as long as you attacked something with any skill regardless to how much damage you dealt. There is 0 limiting factor in this game on how much you can attack something but there is a limit on how much you can evaded even with weaver. Scourge on the other hand a profession with instant or near instant aoe's on demand that can't be stopped at that. The potential is not nearly on the same level as rune of evasion to call it broken.

 

I mean i just named 3 specs off the top of my head that i know can dodge a lot that in itself shows that the rune is not on the same level of being busted like sanctuary was which was only god tier on scourge with abrasive grit because it fits into a few different professions and not just a single 1 with a single elite spec.

 

This whole things is just so silly.

 

Its a shame that the necro community is trying to take low blows at other professions just because of small fix that might work out better in the long run for the spec in general.

[TexZero.7910]

> @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > > @"cylin.7048" said:

> > > Weaver needs no nerf, only this specific rune. Weaver just has the problem that a certain super high skilled pro keeps on posting the best of his fights so everyone thinks thats how weavers usually roll. They don't.

> >

> > Good joke. Ele needs this change because the rune is OP on 1/27 specs. Clearly it's the real logical winner to nerf the trait and not the rune interacting with it because that would lead to individual player frustrations on not being able to control when it procs. Because you know our playerbase has all that individual knowledge readily available to them on the best UI to exist. Anet knows we're just that dang good, that they'd rather blame the player than the systems team who designed a bad system.

>

> In reality this rune is nothing similar to the whole scourge issue.

> Evasion rune is strong on weaver yes but it is limited for starters only 1 condition can be removed per second with the setup and I think only one of their skills evades for 2 seconds or something. So for starters the amount of conditions removed is limited by how many dodges and evades a person can do. Weaver just happens to have a good number of them.

>

> In reality though people point out weaver when this rune could be even more broken on daredevil who can achieve a similar setup and is less limited by cooldowns on dodges also removing multiple conditions on evading an attack.

>

> This rune is strong on a few professions... heck even core warrior dodge just as much as a daredevil does (the good ones anyways) can abuse this rune for insane condition clear along side weapon swap clearing.

>

> But seriously the biggest differences that **rune of evasions potential is limited to the number of evades a profession can do** unlike abrasive grit which had no limitations as long as you attacked something with any skill regardless to how much damage you dealt. There is 0 limiting factor in this game on how much you can attack something but there is a limit on how much you can evaded even with weaver. Scourge on the other hand a profession with instant or near instant aoe's on demand that can't be stopped at that. The potential is not nearly on the same level as rune of evasion to call it broken.

>

> I mean i just named 3 specs off the top of my head that i know can dodge a lot that in itself shows that the rune is not on the same level of being busted like sanctuary was which was only god tier on scourge with abrasive grit because it fits into a few different professions and not just a single 1 with a single elite spec.

>

> This whole things is just so silly.

>

> Its a shame that the necro community is trying to take low blows at other professions just because of small fix that might work out better in the long run for the spec in general.

 

It's limited by the number of evades you say ?

 

If only that was the case. It's not as it will proc multiple times on one evade action. But you'd know that if you watched the video highlighting the problem.

You'd also know that this issue is a rune specific issue as the class has no innate way of getting swiftness that many times in succession to proc cleansing water, just as necro did not have a means to proc barrier enough ways and times to trigger Abrasive Grit. Hence why both of these interactions only showcased themselves to be problems when the reworked runes appeared and not before.

 

But hey lets blame the necro class for using logic when the Devs themselves said the simple solution was to attack the rune, but instead of doing that they did what they thought was good for a "HEALTHY GAME STATE". Because you know barrier spamming with no ICD is great for the game! As is like having permanant boons is and having a figurative 87 condition cleanses is amirite ?

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> But seriously the biggest differences that **rune of evasions potential is limited to the number of evades a profession can do**

 

Except that each dodge allow an unlimited amount of attack evaded in the frame time of the dodge. In 0.5s of dodge/evade frame you can very well evade 50 attacks or a 100 or even a 1000.

[XECOR.2814]

> @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > > @"cylin.7048" said:

> > > Weaver needs no nerf, only this specific rune. Weaver just has the problem that a certain super high skilled pro keeps on posting the best of his fights so everyone thinks thats how weavers usually roll. They don't.

> >

> > Good joke. Ele needs this change because the rune is OP on 1/27 specs. Clearly it's the real logical winner to nerf the trait and not the rune interacting with it because that would lead to individual player frustrations on not being able to control when it procs. Because you know our playerbase has all that individual knowledge readily available to them on the best UI to exist. Anet knows we're just that dang good, that they'd rather blame the player than the systems team who designed a bad system.

>

> In reality this rune is nothing similar to the whole scourge issue.

> Evasion rune is strong on weaver yes but it is limited for starters only 1 condition can be removed per second with the setup and I think only one of their skills evades for 2 seconds or something. So for starters the amount of conditions removed is limited by how many dodges and evades a person can do. Weaver just happens to have a good number of them.

>

> In reality though people point out weaver when this rune could be even more broken on daredevil who can achieve a similar setup and is less limited by cooldowns on dodges also removing multiple conditions on evading an attack.

>

> This rune is strong on a few professions... heck even core warrior dodge just as much as a daredevil does (the good ones anyways) can abuse this rune for insane condition clear along side weapon swap clearing.

>

> But seriously the biggest differences that **rune of evasions potential is limited to the number of evades a profession can do** unlike abrasive grit which had no limitations as long as you attacked something with any skill regardless to how much damage you dealt. There is 0 limiting factor in this game on how much you can attack something but there is a limit on how much you can evaded even with weaver. Scourge on the other hand a profession with instant or near instant aoe's on demand that can't be stopped at that. The potential is not nearly on the same level as rune of evasion to call it broken.

>

> I mean i just named 3 specs off the top of my head that i know can dodge a lot that in itself shows that the rune is not on the same level of being busted like sanctuary was which was only god tier on scourge with abrasive grit because it fits into a few different professions and not just a single 1 with a single elite spec.

>

> This whole things is just so silly.

>

> Its a shame that the necro community is trying to take low blows at other professions just because of small fix that might work out better in the long run for the spec in general.

 

Removes condition on every evade so if weaver uses 2sec evasion on 50necro marks then he clears 50 condi stacks instantly. Btw weaver can perma evade before nerfs. Idk about the current situation of weaver but i assume they could keep up atleast 70% evade time. Also evasion is better than condi immunity. Since evasion can ignore both power and condi damage now while destroying all necro marks and different kinds of dh and theif traps for example.

[Nimon.7840]

> @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > > @"cylin.7048" said:

> > > Weaver needs no nerf, only this specific rune. Weaver just has the problem that a certain super high skilled pro keeps on posting the best of his fights so everyone thinks thats how weavers usually roll. They don't.

> >

> > Good joke. Ele needs this change because the rune is OP on 1/27 specs. Clearly it's the real logical winner to nerf the trait and not the rune interacting with it because that would lead to individual player frustrations on not being able to control when it procs. Because you know our playerbase has all that individual knowledge readily available to them on the best UI to exist. Anet knows we're just that dang good, that they'd rather blame the player than the systems team who designed a bad system.

>

> In reality this rune is nothing similar to the whole scourge issue.

> Evasion rune is strong on weaver yes but it is limited for starters only 1 condition can be removed per second with the setup and I think only one of their skills evades for 2 seconds or something. So for starters the amount of conditions removed is limited by how many dodges and evades a person can do. Weaver just happens to have a good number of them.

>

> In reality though people point out weaver when this rune could be even more broken on daredevil who can achieve a similar setup and is less limited by cooldowns on dodges also removing multiple conditions on evading an attack.

>

> This rune is strong on a few professions... heck even core warrior dodge just as much as a daredevil does (the good ones anyways) can abuse this rune for insane condition clear along side weapon swap clearing.

>

> But seriously the biggest differences that **rune of evasions potential is limited to the number of evades a profession can do** unlike abrasive grit which had no limitations as long as you attacked something with any skill regardless to how much damage you dealt. There is 0 limiting factor in this game on how much you can attack something but there is a limit on how much you can evaded even with weaver. Scourge on the other hand a profession with instant or near instant aoe's on demand that can't be stopped at that. The potential is not nearly on the same level as rune of evasion to call it broken.

>

> I mean i just named 3 specs off the top of my head that i know can dodge a lot that in itself shows that the rune is not on the same level of being busted like sanctuary was which was only god tier on scourge with abrasive grit because it fits into a few different professions and not just a single 1 with a single elite spec.

>

> This whole things is just so silly.

>

> Its a shame that the necro community is trying to take low blows at other professions just because of small fix that might work out better in the long run for the spec in general.

 

While I agree, that the interaction was broken with abrasive grit and sanctuary.

Evasion + weaver or other classes with condiremove on dodge or swiftness application is pretty op as well.

 

I'll take that weaver as example, because it's the best known:

If now necro puts ghastly breach on the weaver, the weaver can just facetank it, use sword water 2 at the very end of it, and the outcome:

No conditions left on the weaver and the weaver is back at 100% health.

So basically this rune countered the elite alone.

 

That's like having a rune, that makes you immune to cc's.

[Ney Matogrosso.5736]

> @"NecroSummonsMors.7816" said:

> Dont nerf abrasive gift. It was fine before the rune. Put the internal cooldown on barrier generation on the rune

 

Agree, just nerf the rune, it can take off lots of cond and give max might too fast... I agree that a icd in the rune will be enought... 1 sec is not enought..

 

[trueanimus.4085]

so is it still worth getting these runes or not?

 

[Snellibee.2761]

The people crying about Weavers with Rune of Evasion are obviously full on condi players. it's hilarious seeing people panic because theres finally a solution to all the condi cancer. This is what happens when people get used to OP builds.

Weaver is all the way on the other side of Meta, now that they have something wich is actually a hard counter against condi y'all want it nerfed. Pathetic.

Also don't forget if you're a good Scourge and you can kite, a Weaver wouldn't be able to out dps your barrier generation and healing, just saying. Feels like all of you condi Scourges got used to being able to stand still and throw condi at everyone untill they die, I see it all the time. But Scourges that are actually smart and good are way more difficult to kill if they don't kill me.

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Snellibee.2761" said:

> The people crying about Weavers with Rune of Evasion are obviously full on condi players. it's hilarious seeing people panic because theres finally a solution to all the condi cancer. This is what happens when people get used to OP builds.

> Weaver is all the way on the other side of Meta, now that they have something wich is actually a hard counter against condi y'all want it nerfed. Pathetic.

> Also don't forget if you're a good Scourge and you can kite, a Weaver wouldn't be able to out dps your barrier generation and healing, just saying. Feels like all of you condi Scourges got used to being able to stand still and throw condi at everyone untill they die, I see it all the time. But Scourges that are actually smart and good are way more difficult to kill if they don't kill me.

 

Nobody care about the fact that weaver can cleanse by exploiting it's own interaction with a specific rune. People just point out that it is a shame to nerf a specialization to keep a rune effect. Weaver's interaction is just used as an example of how destructive it might be for a profession as well if it was given the same treatment as the scourge for the same kind of exploit.

[Snellibee.2761]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"Snellibee.2761" said:

> > The people crying about Weavers with Rune of Evasion are obviously full on condi players. it's hilarious seeing people panic because theres finally a solution to all the condi cancer. This is what happens when people get used to OP builds.

> > Weaver is all the way on the other side of Meta, now that they have something wich is actually a hard counter against condi y'all want it nerfed. Pathetic.

> > Also don't forget if you're a good Scourge and you can kite, a Weaver wouldn't be able to out dps your barrier generation and healing, just saying. Feels like all of you condi Scourges got used to being able to stand still and throw condi at everyone untill they die, I see it all the time. But Scourges that are actually smart and good are way more difficult to kill if they don't kill me.

>

> Nobody care about the fact that weaver can cleanse by exploiting it's own interaction with a specific rune. People just point out that it is a shame to nerf a specialization to keep a rune effect. Weaver's interaction is just used as an example of how destructive it might be for a profession as well if it was given the same treatment as the scourge for the same kind of exploit.

 

Didn't the rune give scourge perma 25 stacks of might and perma condi clear? So basically insane offensive and defensive abilities? If that's the case then i can see why they nerfed Scourge instead of the rune, it is a different situation on Weaver though because the rune only works vs condi players and doesn't give him buffs that makes him a god versus everyone.

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Snellibee.2761" said:

> > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > @"Snellibee.2761" said:

> > > The people crying about Weavers with Rune of Evasion are obviously full on condi players. it's hilarious seeing people panic because theres finally a solution to all the condi cancer. This is what happens when people get used to OP builds.

> > > Weaver is all the way on the other side of Meta, now that they have something wich is actually a hard counter against condi y'all want it nerfed. Pathetic.

> > > Also don't forget if you're a good Scourge and you can kite, a Weaver wouldn't be able to out dps your barrier generation and healing, just saying. Feels like all of you condi Scourges got used to being able to stand still and throw condi at everyone untill they die, I see it all the time. But Scourges that are actually smart and good are way more difficult to kill if they don't kill me.

> >

> > Nobody care about the fact that weaver can cleanse by exploiting it's own interaction with a specific rune. People just point out that it is a shame to nerf a specialization to keep a rune effect. Weaver's interaction is just used as an example of how destructive it might be for a profession as well if it was given the same treatment as the scourge for the same kind of exploit.

>

> Didn't the rune give scourge perma 25 stacks of might and perma condi clear? So basically insane offensive and defensive abilities? If that's the case then i can see why they nerfed Scourge instead of the rune, it is a different situation on Weaver though because the rune only works vs condi players and doesn't give him buffs that makes him a god versus everyone.

 

Nice. You cleanse all condis and have like how many evades you can use against power players?

 

How shall a necro for example kill an ele?

If the ele is good, this will never happen. Even before evasion rune.

 

In addition you have insane amounts of healing on ele, as well as block an invulnerability.

 

Necro just has health as defensive mechanic.

 

 

Also most Condi builds aren't op. At least not necros.

Cause Condi build will require you to survive long enough to have that ticking damage kill an enemy.

Power builds right now, just oneshot anything even targets with 3k armor.

 

 

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Snellibee.2761" said:

> > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > @"Snellibee.2761" said:

> > > The people crying about Weavers with Rune of Evasion are obviously full on condi players. it's hilarious seeing people panic because theres finally a solution to all the condi cancer. This is what happens when people get used to OP builds.

> > > Weaver is all the way on the other side of Meta, now that they have something wich is actually a hard counter against condi y'all want it nerfed. Pathetic.

> > > Also don't forget if you're a good Scourge and you can kite, a Weaver wouldn't be able to out dps your barrier generation and healing, just saying. Feels like all of you condi Scourges got used to being able to stand still and throw condi at everyone untill they die, I see it all the time. But Scourges that are actually smart and good are way more difficult to kill if they don't kill me.

> >

> > Nobody care about the fact that weaver can cleanse by exploiting it's own interaction with a specific rune. People just point out that it is a shame to nerf a specialization to keep a rune effect. Weaver's interaction is just used as an example of how destructive it might be for a profession as well if it was given the same treatment as the scourge for the same kind of exploit.

>

> Didn't the rune give scourge perma 25 stacks of might and perma condi clear? So basically insane offensive and defensive abilities? If that's the case then i can see why they nerfed Scourge instead of the rune, it is a different situation on Weaver though because the rune only works vs condi players and doesn't give him buffs that makes him a god versus everyone.

 

Don't woven stride have a specific 3 second cool down on gaining swiftness to avoid abusive proc of the trait when you suffer repeatedly from soft CC? Thing which is bypassed by the fact that the rune don't have any ICD on giving swiftness which then grant regen (without ICD) from woven stride. Woven stride, just like AG was, is perfectly tune for most of the runesets however, the broken interaction with rune of evasion (like AG had with rune of sanctuary) allow to proc an unlimited amount of swiftness wichch then proc an unlimited amount of regen which then cure an unlimited amount of condition.

 

Woven stride in itself is perfectly fine in my opinion, it allow other elementalist swiftness source to proc the regen without a bothersome ICD and it's fine, but objectively, with the evade runeset, it is as broken as AG with the sanctuary runeset. And again, we don't ask for weaver nerfs but we put thing into perspective with another example of the same broken interactions which could lead to the same stupid balance nerf from ANet.

 

PS: Weaver's interaction with rune of evasion grant him perma swiftness (with an increased effectiveness), perma regen and almost immunity to conditions. I don't think that mobility (swiftness) and sustain (regen) lose out on 25 might stacks. Especially since it's very easy to build 25 might stacks on most of the professions in this game.

[Snellibee.2761]

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > @"Snellibee.2761" said:

> > > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said:

> > > > The people crying about Weavers with Rune of Evasion are obviously full on condi players. it's hilarious seeing people panic because theres finally a solution to all the condi cancer. This is what happens when people get used to OP builds.

> > > > Weaver is all the way on the other side of Meta, now that they have something wich is actually a hard counter against condi y'all want it nerfed. Pathetic.

> > > > Also don't forget if you're a good Scourge and you can kite, a Weaver wouldn't be able to out dps your barrier generation and healing, just saying. Feels like all of you condi Scourges got used to being able to stand still and throw condi at everyone untill they die, I see it all the time. But Scourges that are actually smart and good are way more difficult to kill if they don't kill me.

> > >

> > > Nobody care about the fact that weaver can cleanse by exploiting it's own interaction with a specific rune. People just point out that it is a shame to nerf a specialization to keep a rune effect. Weaver's interaction is just used as an example of how destructive it might be for a profession as well if it was given the same treatment as the scourge for the same kind of exploit.

> >

> > Didn't the rune give scourge perma 25 stacks of might and perma condi clear? So basically insane offensive and defensive abilities? If that's the case then i can see why they nerfed Scourge instead of the rune, it is a different situation on Weaver though because the rune only works vs condi players and doesn't give him buffs that makes him a god versus everyone.

>

> Nice. You cleanse all condis and have like how many evades you can use against power players?

>

> How shall a necro for example kill an ele?

> If the ele is good, this will never happen. Even before evasion rune.

>

> In addition you have insane amounts of healing on ele, as well as block an invulnerability.

>

> Necro just has health as defensive mechanic.

>

>

> Also most Condi builds aren't op. At least not necros.

> Cause Condi build will require you to survive long enough to have that ticking damage kill an enemy.

> Power builds right now, just oneshot anything even targets with 3k armor.

>

>

 

You see, the thing a lot of people don't understand is, Elementalist have incredibly low hp and toughness. Everyone just sees that we have 7 dodges available and a lot of healing (if you take a healing build, not just a dps or normal build, a build MEANT for a lot of healing). But what people don't seem to get is that any power build can basically 3 shot an elementalist. Power builds are so insane against ele it's unreasonable. You talk about invul on ele but the only thing we have is Arcane Shield wich blocks 3 attacks and has a cooldown of 40 seconds, how is this great? Especially since for S/D Weaver you can't take this utility slot because you'll have to lose one of the essential utilities you need to survive. If you don't take Teleport you have no mobility whatsoever, if you don't take Twist of Fate you don't have all the evades everyone talks about and if you don't take Primordial Stance your dps is lower than it already is. Weavers do absolute NO dps btw.

 

Weaver's only place in the game right now, is a build against condi builds, it's a hard counter so to say against those who play condi builds to be a hard counter to non condi cleansing builds. Any power build played by a player that isn't complete garbage should be able to kill a Weaver, if you don't the problem is with YOU.

 

How a necro can kill an ele? as Reaper, how mirage can kill an ele? as power mirage. You need to understand that Weaver is only somewhat viable against condi builds.

Any spellbreaker will make easy breakfast of any ele.

 

Also I know a lot of people see Cellofrag and think "oh so this is what all Weavers do, so Weaver is amazing right?". No. Cellofrag has over 10k hours on his ele alone, this is the amount of hours you need to spend into something to be able to MASTER it. Looking at him and determine how the class performs based on him is completely wrong.

 

Theres a good reason barely anyone plays Weaver, and only the people that never touched the class before will cry because they don't know the effort you need to do in order to survive by anything, everyone is used to their 'press one button and remove 1/4th of the enemy's health' kind of playstyle that you start to cry when you have to spent that extra 30 seconds in order to kill someone because he has more evades than any other class.

[Snellibee.2761]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"Snellibee.2761" said:

> > > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said:

> > > > The people crying about Weavers with Rune of Evasion are obviously full on condi players. it's hilarious seeing people panic because theres finally a solution to all the condi cancer. This is what happens when people get used to OP builds.

> > > > Weaver is all the way on the other side of Meta, now that they have something wich is actually a hard counter against condi y'all want it nerfed. Pathetic.

> > > > Also don't forget if you're a good Scourge and you can kite, a Weaver wouldn't be able to out dps your barrier generation and healing, just saying. Feels like all of you condi Scourges got used to being able to stand still and throw condi at everyone untill they die, I see it all the time. But Scourges that are actually smart and good are way more difficult to kill if they don't kill me.

> > >

> > > Nobody care about the fact that weaver can cleanse by exploiting it's own interaction with a specific rune. People just point out that it is a shame to nerf a specialization to keep a rune effect. Weaver's interaction is just used as an example of how destructive it might be for a profession as well if it was given the same treatment as the scourge for the same kind of exploit.

> >

> > Didn't the rune give scourge perma 25 stacks of might and perma condi clear? So basically insane offensive and defensive abilities? If that's the case then i can see why they nerfed Scourge instead of the rune, it is a different situation on Weaver though because the rune only works vs condi players and doesn't give him buffs that makes him a god versus everyone.

>

> Don't woven stride have a specific 3 second cool down on gaining swiftness to avoid abusive proc of the trait when you suffer repeatedly from soft CC? Thing which is bypassed by the fact that the rune don't have any ICD on giving swiftness which then grant regen (without ICD) from woven stride. Woven stride, just like AG was, is perfectly tune for most of the runesets however, the broken interaction with rune of evasion (like AG had with rune of sanctuary) allow to proc an unlimited amount of swiftness wichch then proc an unlimited amount of regen which then cure an unlimited amount of condition.

>

> Woven stride in itself is perfectly fine in my opinion, it allow other elementalist swiftness source to proc the regen without a bothersome ICD and it's fine, but objectively, with the evade runeset, it is as broken as AG with the sanctuary runeset. And again, we don't ask for weaver nerfs but we put thing into perspective with another example of the same broken interactions which could lead to the same stupid balance nerf from ANet.

>

> PS: Weaver's interaction with rune of evasion grant him perma swiftness (with an increased effectiveness), perma regen and almost immunity to conditions. I don't think that mobility (swiftness) and sustain (regen) lose out on 25 might stacks. Especially since it's very easy to build 25 might stacks on most of the professions in this game.

 

Everyone talking about this unlimited regen but nobody seems to know how almost useless this is, like I said above, Ele has no health and no toughness, meaning basically every attack an enemy does will hit for more than 2k and easily 8-10k (wich is more than half our hp). The amount of regen you recieve with this rune is not enough to outheal half of the damage if an enemy would just use his autoattacks. Don't act like Weaver got perma insane heals without any effort because it's not like that. Play the class first and then you can talk about how it works and in what scenario's it would be good.

 

Also you can't stack 25 might on Weaver even if you did all the combo fields there are, and if you did you're left with no skills anymore to attack anyone with.

 

 

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Snellibee.2761" said:

>

> Everyone talking about this unlimited regen but nobody seems to know how almost useless this is, like I said above, Ele has no health and no toughness, meaning basically every attack an enemy does will hit for more than 2k and easily 8-10k (wich is more than half our hp). The amount of regen you recieve with this rune is not enough to outheal half of the damage if an enemy would just use his autoattacks. Don't act like Weaver got perma insane heals without any effort because it's not like that. Play the class first and then you can talk about how it works and in what scenario's it would be good.

>

 

First, you are underestimating regen especially when you got mobility alongside (improved swiftness) and a lot of evade frame. Second, the health/toughness argument is probably the worst excuse a player can pull up in this game. If anything, the health/toughness argument show either a lack of understanding of the elementalist's profession or poor build choices.

 

> Also you can't stack 25 might on Weaver even if you did all the combo fields there are, and if you did you're left with no skills anymore to attack anyone with.

>

>

 

If you can only stack 25 might stack as a weaver by blowing your everything, then you are using a build which is seriously lacking. Building might for self as an ele is very very easy and you don't need to rely on combo field for that (well it can help but it's not necessary). No seriously there is so many way to build might on an elementalist that your sentence just feel ridiculously out of place.

[Snellibee.2761]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"Snellibee.2761" said:

> >

> > Everyone talking about this unlimited regen but nobody seems to know how almost useless this is, like I said above, Ele has no health and no toughness, meaning basically every attack an enemy does will hit for more than 2k and easily 8-10k (wich is more than half our hp). The amount of regen you recieve with this rune is not enough to outheal half of the damage if an enemy would just use his autoattacks. Don't act like Weaver got perma insane heals without any effort because it's not like that. Play the class first and then you can talk about how it works and in what scenario's it would be good.

> >

>

> First, you are underestimating regen especially when you got mobility alongside (improved swiftness) and a lot of evade frame. Second, the health/toughness argument is probably the worst excuse a player can pull up in this game. If anything, the health/toughness argument show either a lack of understanding of the elementalist's profession or poor build choices.

>

> > Also you can't stack 25 might on Weaver even if you did all the combo fields there are, and if you did you're left with no skills anymore to attack anyone with.

> >

> >

>

> If you can only stack 25 might stack as a weaver by blowing your everything, then you are using a build which is seriously lacking. Building might for self as an ele is very very easy and you don't need to rely on combo field for that (well it can help but it's not necessary). No seriously there is so many way to build might on an elementalist that your sentence just feel ridiculously out of place.

 

it's clear that you've never used ele in a competitive scene, I am not underestimating regen, with todays power creep and CC the regen is almost useless as most classes need to use 3-4 skills to kill an ele, you just don't see the problem here.

Thing is, there is only one viable build for weaver, wich is the mender healing bunker build. All other builds will get absolute shit on in pvp.

 

Please, play in platinum as Weaver first before you even comment about the class, you have no idea what you're talking about at all.

 

PS: The health/toughness argument is very much valid for S/D Weavers. You take a class that can only participate in close melee combat ( 130 range) and you give it the lowest health and toughness of all classes. What do you get? A class that is extremely squishy and will get destroyed by anyone that has a sense of timing in their bones. If anything all these evades that we have is lackluster to how squishy our class is. Also don't forget, you can't attack while evading so if the Weaver is busting his ass off getting all rotations right to take no damage, you will take no damage either.