DragonFury.6243 Posted December 7, 2018 Author Share Posted December 7, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > Well, I didn't want to go there knowing the level of argument it would cause with the OP. But yes, I have had my share of PUG's and my experience is also similar to yours; I think I have been kicked a total of once and it's because I didn't understand. I learned from that, hasn't happened again. Of course, I can't wait for the OP to come call me a liar or pathetic for not proving I joined a PUG with my necro with extensive video coverage, but that's just par for the course at this point. > > > > > > > > > > I don't disagree that necros aren't niche or too low DPS. The discussion here is how to deal with that if you want to team with the class. Maybe I'm hyper realistic but I just don't see Anet coming in and buffing necro with what it needs to make it desirable in PUG teams, considering the history of the game. > > > > > > > > do you remember thief's they were our low dps and unwanted buddies for years and now anet buffed them they are no. 1 dps most wanted on all bosses > > > > so the history of the game is not on your side if anet saw a problem they will act to fix it ( although it may take time ) but if you stand here and say that if a necro get kick from the get go its a L2p issue that wont help any one . > > > > what you did it to adapt to a problem that shouldn't exist same for the advice that i can lead my own group that is just adapting to a problem that shouldn't exist > > > > no profession should be discriminated against for any reason . > > > > > > I think you need to you need to give your head a shake at this point. This EXACT example is precisely what I'm talk about when I say that game history is not in your favour if you compare complain and wait vs. learning to play as the options to team with necro. > > > > > > Are you **honestly** trying to tell me that a semi-random buff in the timeframe of many years that makes a class desirable in PUG teams is a historical game example that FAVOURS necros? If you really think that's favourable to necro players wanting to join pugs vs. learning to play, then you actually don't have anything to complain about here, because you **support** the idea that you have to wait many years before getting a buff that makes necro desirable in PUG team. You **acknowledge** the need for many random changes to the class and many years to pass before being desirable class in PUG teams. This is what you are saying ... that the random buff/complain strategy is BETTER than ... > > > > > > ... taking a few weeks and learning to team. > > > > > > As I've already said, that's your choice and it's open to everyone. > > > > > > > > > > you find a group that are willing to raid with a necro and i am happy for you > > now that solution wont work for every necro that dont have time for static group and want to raid on their spare time why go out of your way and argue that a problem that you yourself faced with PUGs and many other necro also faced doesnt exists and deceptively make as a learn to team up issue > > That's why we discuss this at great length ... you are wrong. You don't have time to find a static? That's not true at all. You certainly have lots of time to collect screen shots and make threads about it. If you just applied your energy elsewhere, you would have been on the road to necro teaming already. /shrug You have choice but it seems making excuses is easier and more favourable to you. > > AGAIN ... I'm NOT arguing this doesn't exist; I've said this at least a dozen times by now (and you wonder why people are calling you dishonest all the time). I'm arguing that ANYONE that learns to play can get a team as a necro. > If i have my phone on me when i am working and have some time to respond to people's like you that doesn't mean I have time to static raid group clear You always assume that all played are like you but in fact they are not And for a change how about you teach us how to team up correctly as a necro and please do step by step analysis with commentary on how to team up the correct way as you in pugs groups Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axl.8924 Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 > @"sigur.9453" said: > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said: > > > > > > Funny how everyone always gives anecdotal proof of how _viable_ Necromancers are. But I believe there is NO issue at all on how viable the Necro as a class is in the PvE endgame. That should also not be the discussion here! > > > > > > It is the fact that they've NEVER been legitimately **optimal** in the whole PvE endgame (save for those periods where they were either bugged or exploitable), and pretty much every other class has been, or is! > > > > > > And really, this is something only ANet can do something about! > > > > > > > > > > https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/necromancer/scourge/condition/ > > > > > > > > > > and there goes your argument. > > > > > no (dps) class is optimal on every boss/situation. nore should any class be, that would be the definition of bad balancing. > > > > > > > > Im going to disagree with you there, since a class should not be excluded from the desire to do that particular raid. > > > > > > > > Having different builds for different raid bosses is one thing, like Eles having large targets and small target. > > > > > > > > The major issue is necros are optimal for 1 or 2 and non meta for the majority of them. > > > > > > > > https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/necromancer/scourge/condition/ > > > > > > > > https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/necromancer/reaper/power/ > > > > > > > > > > > > How is that good design that reaper is only really good for 1 or 2 raids, and the majority of them can skip necro? > > > > > > > > How is it good a build like scourge which is very non meta in pve raids, has its only thing that it has maybe going for it(Support) gutted? > > > > > > > > A class should never be bad at everything, because that is just terrible design. A class who is built up as support can fail at dps, but if it also fails to be a useful support, then that is very bad design.Oversights such as I discussed with dragonfury, and he can confirm this, that the nerf to grit because of a rune oversight, is bad design and questionable. Anet should not have released the new runes without bug testing them. > > > > > > > all dps builds combined, > > > ele is meta on 2 bosses > > > chrono excluded the obvious support part on 4 > > > engee on 6 > > > ranger excluded the obvious support on 0 > > > thief rules supreme. > > > guardian on 7 > > > herold on 3 > > > warrior excluded the obvious support on 0 > > > necro on 2 > > > > > > i see outliers here, but its not necro. > > > > > > necro isn´t bad at everything, NO class is! > > > don´t know why you think sup scourge is bad. > > > > > > > The problem is, look at the scourge support, it says on snowcrows unsubstantial and inefficient, and there you have a reason for elitists to deny you and flat out be elitist against a spec. > > > > I heard that the ones that were good in support are not fully correct, because of the change to scourge support.Wether this is true or not, its still super niche and very much a class build that has few places to shine or be desired. > > > > The word of the day is classism, and its not even 100% since its not a social class, but rather comparable to racism, so lets call it class racism. > > > > If ANET does stuff that encourages class elitism and class racism, then that is what is going to happen. They created some of the problems, so of course they have the responsibility of fixing it. It isn't our fault that the class has limitations that limit our dps to the point where we are less likely to be taken over one of the overlords of dps being:Thief Mesmers holomancers etc, because they have superior dps and these classes also have superior support, so where does that leave scourge in support? helping bad players who die constantly, but even in raids, that wont work since its perma death in escort if you die. > > > > > > > > > > thats the thing with elitist, they deny EVERY CLASS that is not meta on a certain boss the participation. it has nothing to do with necro. but luckily there is a whole lot more groups that only destinct between power/condi + please dont suck. > > sup scourge is probaply the most popular 2nd healer (pugs need 2 healers most of the times) at the moment, on literally every boss. (at least i cant think of a boss atm where sup scourge would suck by design, please correct me if im wrong) > > dps overloards currently are thief, dh, ren, & if we don´t get to picky mirage (super niche like scourge) thats 4/10 classes. necros are not alone. engee is a great overall pick though. > > call it racsim then, i won´t. > > i don´t get the "helping bad players that die" argument. helping players not to die is support? sorry if i ask, how many raid expierence you have? > What I mean is: speed rezzing with scourge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 I don't assume anyone is like me ... I simply know people can learn how to play to team with necro or any class for that matter; people do it all the time. It's a L2P issue. You don't have time to static raid .. but you have time to PUG raid. That makes no sense. Static raid actually takes LESS time to play than a PUG one on average. If you simply don't have time to play, that's not something Anet can fix for you. I already explained to another poster how I found teams that I can play necro with in this thread. Feel free to take your phone while you are at work and read it. You probably missed it while you were thinking up new ways to ignore or misrepresent what people are saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mini Crinny.6190 Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 So the way your thinking is to buff a balanced class because scourge is fine as it is, it's just parts of the community that refuse to take a Necro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swamurabi.7890 Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 Last night there were several groups waiting to do a raid. They were all waiting for Chrono. I guess Chrono is GW2 version of GW1 Monk. Every class having a heal skill in GW2 is a result of all the players waiting in GW1, waiting with LF Monk. I'd expect a Nerf to Support Chrono before you'd get a Support Necro buff or any Necro buff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonFury.6243 Posted December 7, 2018 Author Share Posted December 7, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > I don't assume anyone is like me ... I simply know people can learn how to play to team with necro or any class for that matter; people do it all the time. It's a L2P issue. You don't have time to static raid .. but you have time to PUG raid. That makes no sense. Static raid actually takes LESS time to play than a PUG one on average. If you simply don't have time to play, that's not something Anet can fix for you. > > I already explained to another poster how I found teams that I can play necro with in this thread. Feel free to take your phone while you are at work and read it. You probably missed it while you were thinking up new ways to ignore or misrepresent what people are saying. static raid have a specific time to do raid that why i like puging at any spare time i have link the post how to team up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > I don't assume anyone is like me ... I simply know people can learn how to play to team with necro or any class for that matter; people do it all the time. It's a L2P issue. You don't have time to static raid .. but you have time to PUG raid. That makes no sense. Static raid actually takes LESS time to play than a PUG one on average. If you simply don't have time to play, that's not something Anet can fix for you. > > > > I already explained to another poster how I found teams that I can play necro with in this thread. Feel free to take your phone while you are at work and read it. You probably missed it while you were thinking up new ways to ignore or misrepresent what people are saying. > > static raid have a specific time to do raid that why i like puging at any spare time i have > link the post how to team up Right ... so what are you complaining about if you believe the game history favours necros to get a buff similar to what happened for thieves? According to you, it's simply a matter of waiting for the buff to come. What's the problem? It's funny that you are trying to tell me how necro static groups work when you don't have one and I do. Anyways, you think the random buff/waiting game favours necro's PUG teaming problem, you got it all figured out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonFury.6243 Posted December 7, 2018 Author Share Posted December 7, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > I don't assume anyone is like me ... I simply know people can learn how to play to team with necro or any class for that matter; people do it all the time. It's a L2P issue. You don't have time to static raid .. but you have time to PUG raid. That makes no sense. Static raid actually takes LESS time to play than a PUG one on average. If you simply don't have time to play, that's not something Anet can fix for you. > > > > > > I already explained to another poster how I found teams that I can play necro with in this thread. Feel free to take your phone while you are at work and read it. You probably missed it while you were thinking up new ways to ignore or misrepresent what people are saying. > > > > static raid have a specific time to do raid that why i like puging at any spare time i have > > link the post how to team up > > Right ... so what are you complaining about if you believe the game history favours necros to get a buff similar to what happened for thieves? According to you, it's simply a matter of waiting for the buff to come. What's the problem? > > It's funny that you are trying to tell me how necro static groups work when you don't have one and I do. Anyways, you think the random buff/waiting game favours necro's PUG teaming problem, you got it all figured out. i never ever told you how static group are working i want to pug because that is the better way for me and i told you just to link the post where you explain how to team up in pugs as a necro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > I don't assume anyone is like me ... I simply know people can learn how to play to team with necro or any class for that matter; people do it all the time. It's a L2P issue. You don't have time to static raid .. but you have time to PUG raid. That makes no sense. Static raid actually takes LESS time to play than a PUG one on average. If you simply don't have time to play, that's not something Anet can fix for you. > > > > > > > > I already explained to another poster how I found teams that I can play necro with in this thread. Feel free to take your phone while you are at work and read it. You probably missed it while you were thinking up new ways to ignore or misrepresent what people are saying. > > > > > > static raid have a specific time to do raid that why i like puging at any spare time i have > > > link the post how to team up > > > > Right ... so what are you complaining about if you believe the game history favours necros to get a buff similar to what happened for thieves? According to you, it's simply a matter of waiting for the buff to come. What's the problem? > > > > It's funny that you are trying to tell me how necro static groups work when you don't have one and I do. Anyways, you think the random buff/waiting game favours necro's PUG teaming problem, you got it all figured out. > > i never ever told you how static group are working Sure you did, you just told me you couldn't benefit playing with a static group of people because of your schedule. That's not true. Here is where I tell you it's a L2P issue again, because you clearly don't know how to play in the environment I'm telling you about. You just assumed it wouldn't work for you and that it was more favourable to necro's to just wait around for a random buff than L2P. Again, you wonder why people call you dishonest; this is the reason. It's dishonest to assume you think you know more than the people that play this way. I have a variable schedule ... I get teams on my necro. So really, it's hard to believe that you, who has NEVER attempted to play the way we do, knows more about how it won't work for you than we do about how it can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonFury.6243 Posted December 7, 2018 Author Share Posted December 7, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > I don't assume anyone is like me ... I simply know people can learn how to play to team with necro or any class for that matter; people do it all the time. It's a L2P issue. You don't have time to static raid .. but you have time to PUG raid. That makes no sense. Static raid actually takes LESS time to play than a PUG one on average. If you simply don't have time to play, that's not something Anet can fix for you. > > > > > > > > > > I already explained to another poster how I found teams that I can play necro with in this thread. Feel free to take your phone while you are at work and read it. You probably missed it while you were thinking up new ways to ignore or misrepresent what people are saying. > > > > > > > > static raid have a specific time to do raid that why i like puging at any spare time i have > > > > link the post how to team up > > > > > > Right ... so what are you complaining about if you believe the game history favours necros to get a buff similar to what happened for thieves? According to you, it's simply a matter of waiting for the buff to come. What's the problem? > > > > > > It's funny that you are trying to tell me how necro static groups work when you don't have one and I do. Anyways, you think the random buff/waiting game favours necro's PUG teaming problem, you got it all figured out. > > > > i never ever told you how static group are working > > Sure you did, you just told me you couldn't benefit playing with a static group of people because of your schedule. That's not true. for the love of tyria what is my schedule because you seems to know it better than me i want my schedule for the next week please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonFury.6243 Posted December 7, 2018 Author Share Posted December 7, 2018 > @"sigur.9453" said: > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > Btw. this happend out of boredom with my static + 2 randoms (we don´t do w3 normaly) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.gw2raidar.com/encounter/TonnesPunchesNervousTrustsDrinking > > > > > > > > > > > > > > setup was: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 chronos > > > > > > > 4 pReaper > > > > > > > 2 cScouges > > > > > > > 1 cReaper(!) > > > > > > > 1 support scourge > > > > > > > > > > > > > > don´t mind the low dps numbers > > > > > > > a) mayor hickups in orb phase (we tried to insta pull in a circle with GS5, which happend 0/6 times) > > > > > > > b) most of us have never been on the golem with necro (okok, we honestly suck with that class) > > > > > > > c) not min max gear + buffood > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it was a pretty chill (hehe) first try though. > > > > > > > we also 6 or 7(?) manned escort beforehand with 1 chrono rest necro. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > necro does fine in raids. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > no one here is arguing the capability of any profession to clear contents what we are here discussing is why a certain profession keep getting kicked from PUGs before they are allowed to do content > > > > > > > > > > so you finaly agree that its not a balance issues, perfect. can we now talk about the social issue why necro(an dh also in that regard) have a chance of not beeing accepted? > > > > > > > > its is NOT a social issue its A PURE BALANCE issue as in a one certain profession doing way less than any other profession and it did stay at the bottom for too long > > > > and you want it to stay the lowest for some reason > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > sry, you sound like you want necro to be the be all, end all meta dps/support/power/condi class. > > > > i want necro to be treated inline with other profession i can only assume where this irrational hatred toward necro is coming from > > > > > > as long as a good player on necro can outdps every other profession played by an average player, its not a balance issue. > > LMAO > > what a sound argument that good necro can out DPS other profession played by bad players > > and a good player on any other profession can out preform god tier necro player by alot > > and by your definition its called a social issue > > and its not in the middle here is a hint [sC benchmark](https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/ "SC benchmark") you ll see both necro elites are in the bottom > > it might me a shocker but golem =/= actuall raidboss. you sound like an elitist! > look at the global stats https://www.gw2raidar.com/global_stats an filter by boss. > from the data of gw2raidar stat filter by each boss and by taking the most effective DPS build for each profession on every boss and rank them on scale 1 to 9 (1 top 9 bottom) if a profession have 2 DPS build i ll take the highest and it will be counted as 1 the result was encounter_____________necromancer rank __ necromancer DPS/NO.1 DPS Vale Guardian___________________6________________19.9/24.2 Gorseval the Multifarious__________5________________18/21.3 Sabetha the Saboteur____________6_________________19.7/23.2 Slothasor______________________8_________________17.5/23.8 Matthias Gabrel_________________5________________19.6/25 Keep Construct_________________7_________________23.8/29 Xera_________________________6_________________15.3/18.7 Cairn the Indomitable___________9__________________24.4/35.9 Mursaat Overseer______________9__________________25.7/33.2 Samarog_____________________6__________________14.2/16.3 Deimos______________________8__________________16.7/26.8 Soulless Horror________________9__________________24.4/32.9 Voice in the Void______________4__________________13.9/16.4 Conjured Amalgamate__________6__________________35.1/46.5 Twin Largos__________________5__________________17.7/25.2 Qadim______________________7__________________13.9/18 conclusion so the global stat from necromancer is 6.25 (highest possible score is 1 and lowest possible score is 9) but the fact that necromancer out DPS warrior in most of the time because warrior is a support DPS and taking in account total DPS increase to the whole group , warrior will out perform necromancer and taking that in account the new corrected global stat from necromancer is 7.25 (highest possible score is 1 and lowest possible score is 9) and i like to call that necromancer performance coefficient in raid and you claim that neromancer is in the middle of pack is as obscured as you claim that the game is balanced because > @"sigur.9453" said: > as long as a good player on necro can outdps every other profession played by an average player, its not a balance issue. 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Obtena.7952 Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 I never I said I know your schedule better than you. I'm just telling you that you aren't being honest if you are saying that you can't benefit from playing with a static group because you haven't learned to play that way and don't know if you can't benefit from it. One of the best parts about this thread is that you say it's not about you ... but clearly you are making it about you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonFury.6243 Posted December 7, 2018 Author Share Posted December 7, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > I never I said I know your schedule better than you. I'm just telling you that you aren't being honest if you are saying that you can't benefit from playing with a static group because you haven't learned to play that way and don't know if you can't benefit from it. > > One of the best parts about this thread is that you say it's not about you ... but clearly you are making it about you. not true i told you that static group wont help me because of my schedule and i dont want to be rude and tell my static group to raid when ever it suit me to be at my demand when i ever have time and you said > @"Obtena.7952" said: > Sure you did, you just told me you couldn't benefit playing with a static group of people because of your schedule. That's not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigur.9453 Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > > Btw. this happend out of boredom with my static + 2 randoms (we don´t do w3 normaly) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.gw2raidar.com/encounter/TonnesPunchesNervousTrustsDrinking > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > setup was: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 chronos > > > > > > > > 4 pReaper > > > > > > > > 2 cScouges > > > > > > > > 1 cReaper(!) > > > > > > > > 1 support scourge > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > don´t mind the low dps numbers > > > > > > > > a) mayor hickups in orb phase (we tried to insta pull in a circle with GS5, which happend 0/6 times) > > > > > > > > b) most of us have never been on the golem with necro (okok, we honestly suck with that class) > > > > > > > > c) not min max gear + buffood > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it was a pretty chill (hehe) first try though. > > > > > > > > we also 6 or 7(?) manned escort beforehand with 1 chrono rest necro. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > necro does fine in raids. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > no one here is arguing the capability of any profession to clear contents what we are here discussing is why a certain profession keep getting kicked from PUGs before they are allowed to do content > > > > > > > > > > > > so you finaly agree that its not a balance issues, perfect. can we now talk about the social issue why necro(an dh also in that regard) have a chance of not beeing accepted? > > > > > > > > > > its is NOT a social issue its A PURE BALANCE issue as in a one certain profession doing way less than any other profession and it did stay at the bottom for too long > > > > > and you want it to stay the lowest for some reason > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > sry, you sound like you want necro to be the be all, end all meta dps/support/power/condi class. > > > > > i want necro to be treated inline with other profession i can only assume where this irrational hatred toward necro is coming from > > > > > > > > as long as a good player on necro can outdps every other profession played by an average player, its not a balance issue. > > > LMAO > > > what a sound argument that good necro can out DPS other profession played by bad players > > > and a good player on any other profession can out preform god tier necro player by alot > > > and by your definition its called a social issue > > > and its not in the middle here is a hint [sC benchmark](https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/ "SC benchmark") you ll see both necro elites are in the bottom > > > > it might me a shocker but golem =/= actuall raidboss. you sound like an elitist! > > look at the global stats https://www.gw2raidar.com/global_stats an filter by boss. > > > > from the data of gw2raidar stat filter by each boss and by taking the most effective DPS build for each profession on every boss and rank them on scale 1 to 9 (1 top 9 bottom) if a profession have 2 DPS build i ll take the highest and it will be counted as 1 > the result was > encounter_____________necromancer rank __ necromancer DPS/NO.1 DPS > Vale Guardian___________________6________________19.9/24.2 > Gorseval the Multifarious__________5________________18/21.3 > Sabetha the Saboteur____________6_________________19.7/23.2 > Slothasor______________________8_________________17.5/23.8 > Matthias Gabrel_________________5________________19.6/25 > Keep Construct_________________7_________________23.8/29 > Xera_________________________6_________________15.3/18.7 > Cairn the Indomitable___________9__________________24.4/35.9 > Mursaat Overseer______________9__________________25.7/33.2 > Samarog_____________________6__________________14.2/16.3 > Deimos______________________8__________________16.7/26.8 > Soulless Horror________________9__________________24.4/32.9 > Voice in the Void______________4__________________13.9/16.4 > Conjured Amalgamate__________6__________________35.1/46.5 > Twin Largos__________________5__________________17.7/25.2 > Qadim______________________7__________________13.9/18 > > conclusion so the global stat from necromancer is 6.25 (highest possible score is 1 and lowest possible score is 9) > but the fact that necromancer out DPS warrior in most of the time because warrior is a support DPS and taking in account total DPS increase to the whole group , warrior will out perform necromancer and taking that in account the new corrected global stat from necromancer is 7.25 (highest possible score is 1 and lowest possible score is 9) > and i like to call that necromancer performance coefficient in raid > and you claim that neromancer is in the middle of pack is as obscured as you claim that the game is balanced because > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > as long as a good player on necro can outdps every other profession played by an average player, its not a balance issue. good job,well done. now it would be interessting what scores the other classes have. then we can compare where necro actually stands. and since appearently you don´t know, warrior has a dps build, so you really should not take banners into account when you compare the dps values. 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DragonFury.6243 Posted December 7, 2018 Author Share Posted December 7, 2018 > @"sigur.9453" said: > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > > > Btw. this happend out of boredom with my static + 2 randoms (we don´t do w3 normaly) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.gw2raidar.com/encounter/TonnesPunchesNervousTrustsDrinking > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > setup was: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 chronos > > > > > > > > > 4 pReaper > > > > > > > > > 2 cScouges > > > > > > > > > 1 cReaper(!) > > > > > > > > > 1 support scourge > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > don´t mind the low dps numbers > > > > > > > > > a) mayor hickups in orb phase (we tried to insta pull in a circle with GS5, which happend 0/6 times) > > > > > > > > > b) most of us have never been on the golem with necro (okok, we honestly suck with that class) > > > > > > > > > c) not min max gear + buffood > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it was a pretty chill (hehe) first try though. > > > > > > > > > we also 6 or 7(?) manned escort beforehand with 1 chrono rest necro. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > necro does fine in raids. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > no one here is arguing the capability of any profession to clear contents what we are here discussing is why a certain profession keep getting kicked from PUGs before they are allowed to do content > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so you finaly agree that its not a balance issues, perfect. can we now talk about the social issue why necro(an dh also in that regard) have a chance of not beeing accepted? > > > > > > > > > > > > its is NOT a social issue its A PURE BALANCE issue as in a one certain profession doing way less than any other profession and it did stay at the bottom for too long > > > > > > and you want it to stay the lowest for some reason > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > sry, you sound like you want necro to be the be all, end all meta dps/support/power/condi class. > > > > > > i want necro to be treated inline with other profession i can only assume where this irrational hatred toward necro is coming from > > > > > > > > > > as long as a good player on necro can outdps every other profession played by an average player, its not a balance issue. > > > > LMAO > > > > what a sound argument that good necro can out DPS other profession played by bad players > > > > and a good player on any other profession can out preform god tier necro player by alot > > > > and by your definition its called a social issue > > > > and its not in the middle here is a hint [sC benchmark](https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/ "SC benchmark") you ll see both necro elites are in the bottom > > > > > > it might me a shocker but golem =/= actuall raidboss. you sound like an elitist! > > > look at the global stats https://www.gw2raidar.com/global_stats an filter by boss. > > > > > > > from the data of gw2raidar stat filter by each boss and by taking the most effective DPS build for each profession on every boss and rank them on scale 1 to 9 (1 top 9 bottom) if a profession have 2 DPS build i ll take the highest and it will be counted as 1 > > the result was > > encounter_____________necromancer rank __ necromancer DPS/NO.1 DPS > > Vale Guardian___________________6________________19.9/24.2 > > Gorseval the Multifarious__________5________________18/21.3 > > Sabetha the Saboteur____________6_________________19.7/23.2 > > Slothasor______________________8_________________17.5/23.8 > > Matthias Gabrel_________________5________________19.6/25 > > Keep Construct_________________7_________________23.8/29 > > Xera_________________________6_________________15.3/18.7 > > Cairn the Indomitable___________9__________________24.4/35.9 > > Mursaat Overseer______________9__________________25.7/33.2 > > Samarog_____________________6__________________14.2/16.3 > > Deimos______________________8__________________16.7/26.8 > > Soulless Horror________________9__________________24.4/32.9 > > Voice in the Void______________4__________________13.9/16.4 > > Conjured Amalgamate__________6__________________35.1/46.5 > > Twin Largos__________________5__________________17.7/25.2 > > Qadim______________________7__________________13.9/18 > > > > conclusion so the global stat from necromancer is 6.25 (highest possible score is 1 and lowest possible score is 9) > > but the fact that necromancer out DPS warrior in most of the time because warrior is a support DPS and taking in account total DPS increase to the whole group , warrior will out perform necromancer and taking that in account the new corrected global stat from necromancer is 7.25 (highest possible score is 1 and lowest possible score is 9) > > and i like to call that necromancer performance coefficient in raid > > and you claim that neromancer is in the middle of pack is as obscured as you claim that the game is balanced because > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > as long as a good player on necro can outdps every other profession played by an average player, its not a balance issue. > > good job,well done. > now it would be interessting what scores the other classes have. then we can compare where necro actually stands. > and since appearently you don´t know, warrior has a dps build, so you really should not take banners into account when you compare the dps values. i know necro is underperforming so i did the math its necromancer forum after all and the warrior builds provided by gw2raidar is with banner and we all know that is better than warrior DPS and i did say i ll take the most effective DPS build if you want to do the math for other profession be my guest and from what i saw when i did my calculation necro would be at the bottom and the only other profession that might come close to necro will be ranger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigur.9453 Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > > > > Btw. this happend out of boredom with my static + 2 randoms (we don´t do w3 normaly) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.gw2raidar.com/encounter/TonnesPunchesNervousTrustsDrinking > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > setup was: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 chronos > > > > > > > > > > 4 pReaper > > > > > > > > > > 2 cScouges > > > > > > > > > > 1 cReaper(!) > > > > > > > > > > 1 support scourge > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > don´t mind the low dps numbers > > > > > > > > > > a) mayor hickups in orb phase (we tried to insta pull in a circle with GS5, which happend 0/6 times) > > > > > > > > > > b) most of us have never been on the golem with necro (okok, we honestly suck with that class) > > > > > > > > > > c) not min max gear + buffood > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it was a pretty chill (hehe) first try though. > > > > > > > > > > we also 6 or 7(?) manned escort beforehand with 1 chrono rest necro. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > necro does fine in raids. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > no one here is arguing the capability of any profession to clear contents what we are here discussing is why a certain profession keep getting kicked from PUGs before they are allowed to do content > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so you finaly agree that its not a balance issues, perfect. can we now talk about the social issue why necro(an dh also in that regard) have a chance of not beeing accepted? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its is NOT a social issue its A PURE BALANCE issue as in a one certain profession doing way less than any other profession and it did stay at the bottom for too long > > > > > > > and you want it to stay the lowest for some reason > > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > > sry, you sound like you want necro to be the be all, end all meta dps/support/power/condi class. > > > > > > > i want necro to be treated inline with other profession i can only assume where this irrational hatred toward necro is coming from > > > > > > > > > > > > as long as a good player on necro can outdps every other profession played by an average player, its not a balance issue. > > > > > LMAO > > > > > what a sound argument that good necro can out DPS other profession played by bad players > > > > > and a good player on any other profession can out preform god tier necro player by alot > > > > > and by your definition its called a social issue > > > > > and its not in the middle here is a hint [sC benchmark](https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/ "SC benchmark") you ll see both necro elites are in the bottom > > > > > > > > it might me a shocker but golem =/= actuall raidboss. you sound like an elitist! > > > > look at the global stats https://www.gw2raidar.com/global_stats an filter by boss. > > > > > > > > > > from the data of gw2raidar stat filter by each boss and by taking the most effective DPS build for each profession on every boss and rank them on scale 1 to 9 (1 top 9 bottom) if a profession have 2 DPS build i ll take the highest and it will be counted as 1 > > > the result was > > > encounter_____________necromancer rank __ necromancer DPS/NO.1 DPS > > > Vale Guardian___________________6________________19.9/24.2 > > > Gorseval the Multifarious__________5________________18/21.3 > > > Sabetha the Saboteur____________6_________________19.7/23.2 > > > Slothasor______________________8_________________17.5/23.8 > > > Matthias Gabrel_________________5________________19.6/25 > > > Keep Construct_________________7_________________23.8/29 > > > Xera_________________________6_________________15.3/18.7 > > > Cairn the Indomitable___________9__________________24.4/35.9 > > > Mursaat Overseer______________9__________________25.7/33.2 > > > Samarog_____________________6__________________14.2/16.3 > > > Deimos______________________8__________________16.7/26.8 > > > Soulless Horror________________9__________________24.4/32.9 > > > Voice in the Void______________4__________________13.9/16.4 > > > Conjured Amalgamate__________6__________________35.1/46.5 > > > Twin Largos__________________5__________________17.7/25.2 > > > Qadim______________________7__________________13.9/18 > > > > > > conclusion so the global stat from necromancer is 6.25 (highest possible score is 1 and lowest possible score is 9) > > > but the fact that necromancer out DPS warrior in most of the time because warrior is a support DPS and taking in account total DPS increase to the whole group , warrior will out perform necromancer and taking that in account the new corrected global stat from necromancer is 7.25 (highest possible score is 1 and lowest possible score is 9) > > > and i like to call that necromancer performance coefficient in raid > > > and you claim that neromancer is in the middle of pack is as obscured as you claim that the game is balanced because > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > as long as a good player on necro can outdps every other profession played by an average player, its not a balance issue. > > > > good job,well done. > > now it would be interessting what scores the other classes have. then we can compare where necro actually stands. > > and since appearently you don´t know, warrior has a dps build, so you really should not take banners into account when you compare the dps values. > > i know necro is underperforming so i did the math its necromancer forum after all and the warrior builds provided by gw2raidar is with banner and we all know that is better than warrior DPS and i did say i ll take the most effective DPS build > if you want to do the math for other profession be my guest and from what i saw when i did my calculation necro would be at the bottom and the only other profession that might come close to necro will be ranger no, full stop! first: the warrior build on raidar are WITH an WITHOUT Banners, they sadly share the same "slot". but be assured that the top numbers are done WITHOUT banners. on condi at least, on power psb should be better then core, and then also, without banners. second: dont get me wrong here, i don´t mean it hostile, but your score for necro is pretty meaningless if you dont compare it with other classes. did a "quick one" for warrior and got a "score" of 7,06. so WORSE then necro overall. yet i was perfectly able to join every group as war dps player so far (2 years +). ---> balance doesn´t matter. 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Obtena.7952 Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > I never I said I know your schedule better than you. I'm just telling you that you aren't being honest if you are saying that you can't benefit from playing with a static group because you haven't learned to play that way and don't know if you can't benefit from it. > > > > One of the best parts about this thread is that you say it's not about you ... but clearly you are making it about you. > > not true i told you that static group wont help me because of my schedule so how do you know that if you have never learned to play with one? You simply can't conclude you won't benefit from it. You CERTAINLY can't conclude that it's not a valid solution for other people either, **especially** if you claim this thread isn't about you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonFury.6243 Posted December 7, 2018 Author Share Posted December 7, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > I never I said I know your schedule better than you. I'm just telling you that you aren't being honest if you are saying that you can't benefit from playing with a static group because you haven't learned to play that way and don't know if you can't benefit from it. > > > > > > One of the best parts about this thread is that you say it's not about you ... but clearly you are making it about you. > > > > not true i told you that static group wont help me because of my schedule > > so how do you know that if you have never learned to play with one? You simply can't conclude you won't benefit from it. You CERTAINLY can't conclude that it's not a valid solution for other people either, **especially** if you claim this thread isn't about you. > > i ll break it one by one for you some time i have time to spare Sunday other weeks Monday ohers Friday some time i have time to spare 8pm some times i have time to spare 10pm and next week will be other times so static group wont help me because of my schedule as i told you and i dont know how to explain this to you any more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonFury.6243 Posted December 7, 2018 Author Share Posted December 7, 2018 > @"sigur.9453" said: > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Btw. this happend out of boredom with my static + 2 randoms (we don´t do w3 normaly) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.gw2raidar.com/encounter/TonnesPunchesNervousTrustsDrinking > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > setup was: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 chronos > > > > > > > > > > > 4 pReaper > > > > > > > > > > > 2 cScouges > > > > > > > > > > > 1 cReaper(!) > > > > > > > > > > > 1 support scourge > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > don´t mind the low dps numbers > > > > > > > > > > > a) mayor hickups in orb phase (we tried to insta pull in a circle with GS5, which happend 0/6 times) > > > > > > > > > > > b) most of us have never been on the golem with necro (okok, we honestly suck with that class) > > > > > > > > > > > c) not min max gear + buffood > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it was a pretty chill (hehe) first try though. > > > > > > > > > > > we also 6 or 7(?) manned escort beforehand with 1 chrono rest necro. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > necro does fine in raids. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > no one here is arguing the capability of any profession to clear contents what we are here discussing is why a certain profession keep getting kicked from PUGs before they are allowed to do content > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so you finaly agree that its not a balance issues, perfect. can we now talk about the social issue why necro(an dh also in that regard) have a chance of not beeing accepted? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its is NOT a social issue its A PURE BALANCE issue as in a one certain profession doing way less than any other profession and it did stay at the bottom for too long > > > > > > > > and you want it to stay the lowest for some reason > > > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > > > sry, you sound like you want necro to be the be all, end all meta dps/support/power/condi class. > > > > > > > > i want necro to be treated inline with other profession i can only assume where this irrational hatred toward necro is coming from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as long as a good player on necro can outdps every other profession played by an average player, its not a balance issue. > > > > > > LMAO > > > > > > what a sound argument that good necro can out DPS other profession played by bad players > > > > > > and a good player on any other profession can out preform god tier necro player by alot > > > > > > and by your definition its called a social issue > > > > > > and its not in the middle here is a hint [sC benchmark](https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/ "SC benchmark") you ll see both necro elites are in the bottom > > > > > > > > > > it might me a shocker but golem =/= actuall raidboss. you sound like an elitist! > > > > > look at the global stats https://www.gw2raidar.com/global_stats an filter by boss. > > > > > > > > > > > > > from the data of gw2raidar stat filter by each boss and by taking the most effective DPS build for each profession on every boss and rank them on scale 1 to 9 (1 top 9 bottom) if a profession have 2 DPS build i ll take the highest and it will be counted as 1 > > > > the result was > > > > encounter_____________necromancer rank __ necromancer DPS/NO.1 DPS > > > > Vale Guardian___________________6________________19.9/24.2 > > > > Gorseval the Multifarious__________5________________18/21.3 > > > > Sabetha the Saboteur____________6_________________19.7/23.2 > > > > Slothasor______________________8_________________17.5/23.8 > > > > Matthias Gabrel_________________5________________19.6/25 > > > > Keep Construct_________________7_________________23.8/29 > > > > Xera_________________________6_________________15.3/18.7 > > > > Cairn the Indomitable___________9__________________24.4/35.9 > > > > Mursaat Overseer______________9__________________25.7/33.2 > > > > Samarog_____________________6__________________14.2/16.3 > > > > Deimos______________________8__________________16.7/26.8 > > > > Soulless Horror________________9__________________24.4/32.9 > > > > Voice in the Void______________4__________________13.9/16.4 > > > > Conjured Amalgamate__________6__________________35.1/46.5 > > > > Twin Largos__________________5__________________17.7/25.2 > > > > Qadim______________________7__________________13.9/18 > > > > > > > > conclusion so the global stat from necromancer is 6.25 (highest possible score is 1 and lowest possible score is 9) > > > > but the fact that necromancer out DPS warrior in most of the time because warrior is a support DPS and taking in account total DPS increase to the whole group , warrior will out perform necromancer and taking that in account the new corrected global stat from necromancer is 7.25 (highest possible score is 1 and lowest possible score is 9) > > > > and i like to call that necromancer performance coefficient in raid > > > > and you claim that neromancer is in the middle of pack is as obscured as you claim that the game is balanced because > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > as long as a good player on necro can outdps every other profession played by an average player, its not a balance issue. > > > > > > good job,well done. > > > now it would be interessting what scores the other classes have. then we can compare where necro actually stands. > > > and since appearently you don´t know, warrior has a dps build, so you really should not take banners into account when you compare the dps values. > > > > i know necro is underperforming so i did the math its necromancer forum after all and the warrior builds provided by gw2raidar is with banner and we all know that is better than warrior DPS and i did say i ll take the most effective DPS build > > if you want to do the math for other profession be my guest and from what i saw when i did my calculation necro would be at the bottom and the only other profession that might come close to necro will be ranger > > no, full stop! > first: the warrior build on raidar are WITH an WITHOUT Banners, they sadly share the same "slot". but be assured that the top numbers are done WITHOUT banners. on condi at least, on power psb should be better then core, and then also, without banners. > second: dont get me wrong here, i don´t mean it hostile, but your score for necro is pretty meaningless if you dont compare it with other classes. > > did a "quick one" for warrior and got a "score" of 7,06. so WORSE then necro overall. yet i was perfectly able to join every group as war dps player so far (2 years +). ---> balance doesn´t matter. i did told that i ll take the most effective build for each profession so warrior with banner is the most effective build for warriors (DPS increase to the whole group is added to warrior DPS) and trying to compare warrior to necro is obscured BTW by taking warrior banner into consideration warrior score will be higher and the corrected necro score is 7.25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigur.9453 Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > Btw. this happend out of boredom with my static + 2 randoms (we don´t do w3 normaly) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.gw2raidar.com/encounter/TonnesPunchesNervousTrustsDrinking > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > setup was: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 chronos > > > > > > > > > > > > 4 pReaper > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 cScouges > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 cReaper(!) > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 support scourge > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > don´t mind the low dps numbers > > > > > > > > > > > > a) mayor hickups in orb phase (we tried to insta pull in a circle with GS5, which happend 0/6 times) > > > > > > > > > > > > b) most of us have never been on the golem with necro (okok, we honestly suck with that class) > > > > > > > > > > > > c) not min max gear + buffood > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it was a pretty chill (hehe) first try though. > > > > > > > > > > > > we also 6 or 7(?) manned escort beforehand with 1 chrono rest necro. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > necro does fine in raids. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > no one here is arguing the capability of any profession to clear contents what we are here discussing is why a certain profession keep getting kicked from PUGs before they are allowed to do content > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so you finaly agree that its not a balance issues, perfect. can we now talk about the social issue why necro(an dh also in that regard) have a chance of not beeing accepted? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its is NOT a social issue its A PURE BALANCE issue as in a one certain profession doing way less than any other profession and it did stay at the bottom for too long > > > > > > > > > and you want it to stay the lowest for some reason > > > > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > > > > sry, you sound like you want necro to be the be all, end all meta dps/support/power/condi class. > > > > > > > > > i want necro to be treated inline with other profession i can only assume where this irrational hatred toward necro is coming from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as long as a good player on necro can outdps every other profession played by an average player, its not a balance issue. > > > > > > > LMAO > > > > > > > what a sound argument that good necro can out DPS other profession played by bad players > > > > > > > and a good player on any other profession can out preform god tier necro player by alot > > > > > > > and by your definition its called a social issue > > > > > > > and its not in the middle here is a hint [sC benchmark](https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/ "SC benchmark") you ll see both necro elites are in the bottom > > > > > > > > > > > > it might me a shocker but golem =/= actuall raidboss. you sound like an elitist! > > > > > > look at the global stats https://www.gw2raidar.com/global_stats an filter by boss. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from the data of gw2raidar stat filter by each boss and by taking the most effective DPS build for each profession on every boss and rank them on scale 1 to 9 (1 top 9 bottom) if a profession have 2 DPS build i ll take the highest and it will be counted as 1 > > > > > the result was > > > > > encounter_____________necromancer rank __ necromancer DPS/NO.1 DPS > > > > > Vale Guardian___________________6________________19.9/24.2 > > > > > Gorseval the Multifarious__________5________________18/21.3 > > > > > Sabetha the Saboteur____________6_________________19.7/23.2 > > > > > Slothasor______________________8_________________17.5/23.8 > > > > > Matthias Gabrel_________________5________________19.6/25 > > > > > Keep Construct_________________7_________________23.8/29 > > > > > Xera_________________________6_________________15.3/18.7 > > > > > Cairn the Indomitable___________9__________________24.4/35.9 > > > > > Mursaat Overseer______________9__________________25.7/33.2 > > > > > Samarog_____________________6__________________14.2/16.3 > > > > > Deimos______________________8__________________16.7/26.8 > > > > > Soulless Horror________________9__________________24.4/32.9 > > > > > Voice in the Void______________4__________________13.9/16.4 > > > > > Conjured Amalgamate__________6__________________35.1/46.5 > > > > > Twin Largos__________________5__________________17.7/25.2 > > > > > Qadim______________________7__________________13.9/18 > > > > > > > > > > conclusion so the global stat from necromancer is 6.25 (highest possible score is 1 and lowest possible score is 9) > > > > > but the fact that necromancer out DPS warrior in most of the time because warrior is a support DPS and taking in account total DPS increase to the whole group , warrior will out perform necromancer and taking that in account the new corrected global stat from necromancer is 7.25 (highest possible score is 1 and lowest possible score is 9) > > > > > and i like to call that necromancer performance coefficient in raid > > > > > and you claim that neromancer is in the middle of pack is as obscured as you claim that the game is balanced because > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > as long as a good player on necro can outdps every other profession played by an average player, its not a balance issue. > > > > > > > > good job,well done. > > > > now it would be interessting what scores the other classes have. then we can compare where necro actually stands. > > > > and since appearently you don´t know, warrior has a dps build, so you really should not take banners into account when you compare the dps values. > > > > > > i know necro is underperforming so i did the math its necromancer forum after all and the warrior builds provided by gw2raidar is with banner and we all know that is better than warrior DPS and i did say i ll take the most effective DPS build > > > if you want to do the math for other profession be my guest and from what i saw when i did my calculation necro would be at the bottom and the only other profession that might come close to necro will be ranger > > > > no, full stop! > > first: the warrior build on raidar are WITH an WITHOUT Banners, they sadly share the same "slot". but be assured that the top numbers are done WITHOUT banners. on condi at least, on power psb should be better then core, and then also, without banners. > > second: dont get me wrong here, i don´t mean it hostile, but your score for necro is pretty meaningless if you dont compare it with other classes. > > > > did a "quick one" for warrior and got a "score" of 7,06. so WORSE then necro overall. yet i was perfectly able to join every group as war dps player so far (2 years +). ---> balance doesn´t matter. > > i did told that i ll take the most effective build for each profession so warrior with banner is the most effective build for warriors (DPS increase to the whole group is added to warrior DPS) > and trying to compare warrior to necro is obscured > BTW by taking warrior banner into consideration warrior score will be higher and the corrected necro score is 7.25 you just can´t change values because they don´t fit you good madam/Sir. or do you want do do the math vor chrono dps group increase with the boon share? keep it real here. why is it obscure? explain. what are you talking about? waah?! 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Obtena.7952 Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > I never I said I know your schedule better than you. I'm just telling you that you aren't being honest if you are saying that you can't benefit from playing with a static group because you haven't learned to play that way and don't know if you can't benefit from it. > > > > > > > > One of the best parts about this thread is that you say it's not about you ... but clearly you are making it about you. > > > > > > not true i told you that static group wont help me because of my schedule > > > > so how do you know that if you have never learned to play with one? You simply can't conclude you won't benefit from it. You CERTAINLY can't conclude that it's not a valid solution for other people either, **especially** if you claim this thread isn't about you. > > > > > > i ll break it one by one for you > some time i have time to spare Sunday other weeks Monday ohers Friday > some time i have time to spare 8pm some times i have time to spare 10pm > and next week will be other times > so static group wont help me because of my schedule as i told you > and i dont know how to explain this to you any more > You don't know if you can't find a group of people that you can team with because you didn't learn and try; whatever your schedule is, it doesn't automatically exclude you from learning to play and joining groups when you are available ... and as you said before, this thread isn't about you anyways. So when I say this is a L2P issue, it's not because I'm lying or I'm pathetic or I'm denying what happens to necro who try to join PUG. It's because learning to play helps you ... learn to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonFury.6243 Posted December 7, 2018 Author Share Posted December 7, 2018 > @"sigur.9453" said: > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Btw. this happend out of boredom with my static + 2 randoms (we don´t do w3 normaly) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.gw2raidar.com/encounter/TonnesPunchesNervousTrustsDrinking > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > setup was: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 chronos > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4 pReaper > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 cScouges > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 cReaper(!) > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 support scourge > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > don´t mind the low dps numbers > > > > > > > > > > > > > a) mayor hickups in orb phase (we tried to insta pull in a circle with GS5, which happend 0/6 times) > > > > > > > > > > > > > b) most of us have never been on the golem with necro (okok, we honestly suck with that class) > > > > > > > > > > > > > c) not min max gear + buffood > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it was a pretty chill (hehe) first try though. > > > > > > > > > > > > > we also 6 or 7(?) manned escort beforehand with 1 chrono rest necro. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > necro does fine in raids. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > no one here is arguing the capability of any profession to clear contents what we are here discussing is why a certain profession keep getting kicked from PUGs before they are allowed to do content > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so you finaly agree that its not a balance issues, perfect. can we now talk about the social issue why necro(an dh also in that regard) have a chance of not beeing accepted? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its is NOT a social issue its A PURE BALANCE issue as in a one certain profession doing way less than any other profession and it did stay at the bottom for too long > > > > > > > > > > and you want it to stay the lowest for some reason > > > > > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > > > > > sry, you sound like you want necro to be the be all, end all meta dps/support/power/condi class. > > > > > > > > > > i want necro to be treated inline with other profession i can only assume where this irrational hatred toward necro is coming from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as long as a good player on necro can outdps every other profession played by an average player, its not a balance issue. > > > > > > > > LMAO > > > > > > > > what a sound argument that good necro can out DPS other profession played by bad players > > > > > > > > and a good player on any other profession can out preform god tier necro player by alot > > > > > > > > and by your definition its called a social issue > > > > > > > > and its not in the middle here is a hint [sC benchmark](https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/ "SC benchmark") you ll see both necro elites are in the bottom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it might me a shocker but golem =/= actuall raidboss. you sound like an elitist! > > > > > > > look at the global stats https://www.gw2raidar.com/global_stats an filter by boss. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from the data of gw2raidar stat filter by each boss and by taking the most effective DPS build for each profession on every boss and rank them on scale 1 to 9 (1 top 9 bottom) if a profession have 2 DPS build i ll take the highest and it will be counted as 1 > > > > > > the result was > > > > > > encounter_____________necromancer rank __ necromancer DPS/NO.1 DPS > > > > > > Vale Guardian___________________6________________19.9/24.2 > > > > > > Gorseval the Multifarious__________5________________18/21.3 > > > > > > Sabetha the Saboteur____________6_________________19.7/23.2 > > > > > > Slothasor______________________8_________________17.5/23.8 > > > > > > Matthias Gabrel_________________5________________19.6/25 > > > > > > Keep Construct_________________7_________________23.8/29 > > > > > > Xera_________________________6_________________15.3/18.7 > > > > > > Cairn the Indomitable___________9__________________24.4/35.9 > > > > > > Mursaat Overseer______________9__________________25.7/33.2 > > > > > > Samarog_____________________6__________________14.2/16.3 > > > > > > Deimos______________________8__________________16.7/26.8 > > > > > > Soulless Horror________________9__________________24.4/32.9 > > > > > > Voice in the Void______________4__________________13.9/16.4 > > > > > > Conjured Amalgamate__________6__________________35.1/46.5 > > > > > > Twin Largos__________________5__________________17.7/25.2 > > > > > > Qadim______________________7__________________13.9/18 > > > > > > > > > > > > conclusion so the global stat from necromancer is 6.25 (highest possible score is 1 and lowest possible score is 9) > > > > > > but the fact that necromancer out DPS warrior in most of the time because warrior is a support DPS and taking in account total DPS increase to the whole group , warrior will out perform necromancer and taking that in account the new corrected global stat from necromancer is 7.25 (highest possible score is 1 and lowest possible score is 9) > > > > > > and i like to call that necromancer performance coefficient in raid > > > > > > and you claim that neromancer is in the middle of pack is as obscured as you claim that the game is balanced because > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > as long as a good player on necro can outdps every other profession played by an average player, its not a balance issue. > > > > > > > > > > good job,well done. > > > > > now it would be interessting what scores the other classes have. then we can compare where necro actually stands. > > > > > and since appearently you don´t know, warrior has a dps build, so you really should not take banners into account when you compare the dps values. > > > > > > > > i know necro is underperforming so i did the math its necromancer forum after all and the warrior builds provided by gw2raidar is with banner and we all know that is better than warrior DPS and i did say i ll take the most effective DPS build > > > > if you want to do the math for other profession be my guest and from what i saw when i did my calculation necro would be at the bottom and the only other profession that might come close to necro will be ranger > > > > > > no, full stop! > > > first: the warrior build on raidar are WITH an WITHOUT Banners, they sadly share the same "slot". but be assured that the top numbers are done WITHOUT banners. on condi at least, on power psb should be better then core, and then also, without banners. > > > second: dont get me wrong here, i don´t mean it hostile, but your score for necro is pretty meaningless if you dont compare it with other classes. > > > > > > did a "quick one" for warrior and got a "score" of 7,06. so WORSE then necro overall. yet i was perfectly able to join every group as war dps player so far (2 years +). ---> balance doesn´t matter. > > > > i did told that i ll take the most effective build for each profession so warrior with banner is the most effective build for warriors (DPS increase to the whole group is added to warrior DPS) > > and trying to compare warrior to necro is obscured > > BTW by taking warrior banner into consideration warrior score will be higher and the corrected necro score is 7.25 > > you just can´t change values because they don´t fit you good madam/Sir. > or do you want do do the math vor chrono dps group increase with the boon share? keep it real here. > why is it obscure? explain. > what are you talking about? waah?! > i did not change any value and if you want to ignore that warrior is better with banner that is you problem not mine and you want to keep it real well warrior give banner necro give nothing and chrono boon share is a support(not DPS) and this was about the most effective DPS build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonFury.6243 Posted December 7, 2018 Author Share Posted December 7, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > I never I said I know your schedule better than you. I'm just telling you that you aren't being honest if you are saying that you can't benefit from playing with a static group because you haven't learned to play that way and don't know if you can't benefit from it. > > > > > > > > > > One of the best parts about this thread is that you say it's not about you ... but clearly you are making it about you. > > > > > > > > not true i told you that static group wont help me because of my schedule > > > > > > so how do you know that if you have never learned to play with one? You simply can't conclude you won't benefit from it. You CERTAINLY can't conclude that it's not a valid solution for other people either, **especially** if you claim this thread isn't about you. > > > > > > > > > > i ll break it one by one for you > > some time i have time to spare Sunday other weeks Monday ohers Friday > > some time i have time to spare 8pm some times i have time to spare 10pm > > and next week will be other times > > so static group wont help me because of my schedule as i told you > > and i dont know how to explain this to you any more > > > > You don't know if you can't find a group of people that you can team with because you didn't learn and try; whatever your schedule is, it doesn't automatically exclude you from learning to play and joining groups when you are available ... and as you said before, this thread isn't about you anyways. > > So when I say this is a L2P issue, it's not because I'm lying or I'm pathetic or I'm denying what happens to necro who try to join PUG. It's because learning to play helps you ... learn to play. why should necro only raid with static group or start their own group and not allowed in PUGs while every other profession is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > I never I said I know your schedule better than you. I'm just telling you that you aren't being honest if you are saying that you can't benefit from playing with a static group because you haven't learned to play that way and don't know if you can't benefit from it. > > > > > > > > > > > > One of the best parts about this thread is that you say it's not about you ... but clearly you are making it about you. > > > > > > > > > > not true i told you that static group wont help me because of my schedule > > > > > > > > so how do you know that if you have never learned to play with one? You simply can't conclude you won't benefit from it. You CERTAINLY can't conclude that it's not a valid solution for other people either, **especially** if you claim this thread isn't about you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i ll break it one by one for you > > > some time i have time to spare Sunday other weeks Monday ohers Friday > > > some time i have time to spare 8pm some times i have time to spare 10pm > > > and next week will be other times > > > so static group wont help me because of my schedule as i told you > > > and i dont know how to explain this to you any more > > > > > > > You don't know if you can't find a group of people that you can team with because you didn't learn and try; whatever your schedule is, it doesn't automatically exclude you from learning to play and joining groups when you are available ... and as you said before, this thread isn't about you anyways. > > > > So when I say this is a L2P issue, it's not because I'm lying or I'm pathetic or I'm denying what happens to necro who try to join PUG. It's because learning to play helps you ... learn to play. > > why should necro only raid with static group or start their own group and not allowed in PUGs while every other profession is Why? Because if you L2P, it doesn't matter. That's how the game is intentionally designed. Besides, your statement doesn't make sense and isn't being honest ... AGAIN. What classes are allowed in a PUG depends on the PUG itself. If any player wants a guaranteed spot on a PUG, they have to play the best DPS meta at the moment. The farther from that you are, the less chance you have to join a PUG. Again, you are going down this path of what YOU think should or shouldn't be in the game; it's irrelevant what any individual player thinks the game should be. The game simply can't cater to you as an individual. What is relevant is how the game actually IS and what options you have to deal with the problems you face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigur.9453 Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Btw. this happend out of boredom with my static + 2 randoms (we don´t do w3 normaly) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.gw2raidar.com/encounter/TonnesPunchesNervousTrustsDrinking > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > setup was: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 chronos > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4 pReaper > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 cScouges > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 cReaper(!) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 support scourge > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > don´t mind the low dps numbers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a) mayor hickups in orb phase (we tried to insta pull in a circle with GS5, which happend 0/6 times) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b) most of us have never been on the golem with necro (okok, we honestly suck with that class) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > c) not min max gear + buffood > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it was a pretty chill (hehe) first try though. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we also 6 or 7(?) manned escort beforehand with 1 chrono rest necro. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > necro does fine in raids. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > no one here is arguing the capability of any profession to clear contents what we are here discussing is why a certain profession keep getting kicked from PUGs before they are allowed to do content > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so you finaly agree that its not a balance issues, perfect. can we now talk about the social issue why necro(an dh also in that regard) have a chance of not beeing accepted? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its is NOT a social issue its A PURE BALANCE issue as in a one certain profession doing way less than any other profession and it did stay at the bottom for too long > > > > > > > > > > > and you want it to stay the lowest for some reason > > > > > > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > sry, you sound like you want necro to be the be all, end all meta dps/support/power/condi class. > > > > > > > > > > > i want necro to be treated inline with other profession i can only assume where this irrational hatred toward necro is coming from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as long as a good player on necro can outdps every other profession played by an average player, its not a balance issue. > > > > > > > > > LMAO > > > > > > > > > what a sound argument that good necro can out DPS other profession played by bad players > > > > > > > > > and a good player on any other profession can out preform god tier necro player by alot > > > > > > > > > and by your definition its called a social issue > > > > > > > > > and its not in the middle here is a hint [sC benchmark](https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/ "SC benchmark") you ll see both necro elites are in the bottom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it might me a shocker but golem =/= actuall raidboss. you sound like an elitist! > > > > > > > > look at the global stats https://www.gw2raidar.com/global_stats an filter by boss. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from the data of gw2raidar stat filter by each boss and by taking the most effective DPS build for each profession on every boss and rank them on scale 1 to 9 (1 top 9 bottom) if a profession have 2 DPS build i ll take the highest and it will be counted as 1 > > > > > > > the result was > > > > > > > encounter_____________necromancer rank __ necromancer DPS/NO.1 DPS > > > > > > > Vale Guardian___________________6________________19.9/24.2 > > > > > > > Gorseval the Multifarious__________5________________18/21.3 > > > > > > > Sabetha the Saboteur____________6_________________19.7/23.2 > > > > > > > Slothasor______________________8_________________17.5/23.8 > > > > > > > Matthias Gabrel_________________5________________19.6/25 > > > > > > > Keep Construct_________________7_________________23.8/29 > > > > > > > Xera_________________________6_________________15.3/18.7 > > > > > > > Cairn the Indomitable___________9__________________24.4/35.9 > > > > > > > Mursaat Overseer______________9__________________25.7/33.2 > > > > > > > Samarog_____________________6__________________14.2/16.3 > > > > > > > Deimos______________________8__________________16.7/26.8 > > > > > > > Soulless Horror________________9__________________24.4/32.9 > > > > > > > Voice in the Void______________4__________________13.9/16.4 > > > > > > > Conjured Amalgamate__________6__________________35.1/46.5 > > > > > > > Twin Largos__________________5__________________17.7/25.2 > > > > > > > Qadim______________________7__________________13.9/18 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conclusion so the global stat from necromancer is 6.25 (highest possible score is 1 and lowest possible score is 9) > > > > > > > but the fact that necromancer out DPS warrior in most of the time because warrior is a support DPS and taking in account total DPS increase to the whole group , warrior will out perform necromancer and taking that in account the new corrected global stat from necromancer is 7.25 (highest possible score is 1 and lowest possible score is 9) > > > > > > > and i like to call that necromancer performance coefficient in raid > > > > > > > and you claim that neromancer is in the middle of pack is as obscured as you claim that the game is balanced because > > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > > as long as a good player on necro can outdps every other profession played by an average player, its not a balance issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > good job,well done. > > > > > > now it would be interessting what scores the other classes have. then we can compare where necro actually stands. > > > > > > and since appearently you don´t know, warrior has a dps build, so you really should not take banners into account when you compare the dps values. > > > > > > > > > > i know necro is underperforming so i did the math its necromancer forum after all and the warrior builds provided by gw2raidar is with banner and we all know that is better than warrior DPS and i did say i ll take the most effective DPS build > > > > > if you want to do the math for other profession be my guest and from what i saw when i did my calculation necro would be at the bottom and the only other profession that might come close to necro will be ranger > > > > > > > > no, full stop! > > > > first: the warrior build on raidar are WITH an WITHOUT Banners, they sadly share the same "slot". but be assured that the top numbers are done WITHOUT banners. on condi at least, on power psb should be better then core, and then also, without banners. > > > > second: dont get me wrong here, i don´t mean it hostile, but your score for necro is pretty meaningless if you dont compare it with other classes. > > > > > > > > did a "quick one" for warrior and got a "score" of 7,06. so WORSE then necro overall. yet i was perfectly able to join every group as war dps player so far (2 years +). ---> balance doesn´t matter. > > > > > > i did told that i ll take the most effective build for each profession so warrior with banner is the most effective build for warriors (DPS increase to the whole group is added to warrior DPS) > > > and trying to compare warrior to necro is obscured > > > BTW by taking warrior banner into consideration warrior score will be higher and the corrected necro score is 7.25 > > > > you just can´t change values because they don´t fit you good madam/Sir. > > or do you want do do the math vor chrono dps group increase with the boon share? keep it real here. > > why is it obscure? explain. > > what are you talking about? waah?! > > > > i did not change any value and if you want to ignore that warrior is better with banner that is you problem not mine > and you want to keep it real well warrior give banner necro give nothing > and chrono boon share is a support(not DPS) and this was about the most effective DPS build > warrior with banners is support! warrior without banners is dps. i think you have no clue about raiding and classes in general and thats the problem. 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