DragonFury.6243 Posted December 7, 2018 Author Share Posted December 7, 2018 > @"sigur.9453" said: > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Btw. this happend out of boredom with my static + 2 randoms (we don´t do w3 normaly) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.gw2raidar.com/encounter/TonnesPunchesNervousTrustsDrinking > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > setup was: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 chronos > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4 pReaper > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 cScouges > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 cReaper(!) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 support scourge > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > don´t mind the low dps numbers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a) mayor hickups in orb phase (we tried to insta pull in a circle with GS5, which happend 0/6 times) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b) most of us have never been on the golem with necro (okok, we honestly suck with that class) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > c) not min max gear + buffood > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it was a pretty chill (hehe) first try though. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we also 6 or 7(?) manned escort beforehand with 1 chrono rest necro. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > necro does fine in raids. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > no one here is arguing the capability of any profession to clear contents what we are here discussing is why a certain profession keep getting kicked from PUGs before they are allowed to do content > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so you finaly agree that its not a balance issues, perfect. can we now talk about the social issue why necro(an dh also in that regard) have a chance of not beeing accepted? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its is NOT a social issue its A PURE BALANCE issue as in a one certain profession doing way less than any other profession and it did stay at the bottom for too long > > > > > > > > > > > > and you want it to stay the lowest for some reason > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > sry, you sound like you want necro to be the be all, end all meta dps/support/power/condi class. > > > > > > > > > > > > i want necro to be treated inline with other profession i can only assume where this irrational hatred toward necro is coming from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as long as a good player on necro can outdps every other profession played by an average player, its not a balance issue. > > > > > > > > > > LMAO > > > > > > > > > > what a sound argument that good necro can out DPS other profession played by bad players > > > > > > > > > > and a good player on any other profession can out preform god tier necro player by alot > > > > > > > > > > and by your definition its called a social issue > > > > > > > > > > and its not in the middle here is a hint [sC benchmark](https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/ "SC benchmark") you ll see both necro elites are in the bottom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it might me a shocker but golem =/= actuall raidboss. you sound like an elitist! > > > > > > > > > look at the global stats https://www.gw2raidar.com/global_stats an filter by boss. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from the data of gw2raidar stat filter by each boss and by taking the most effective DPS build for each profession on every boss and rank them on scale 1 to 9 (1 top 9 bottom) if a profession have 2 DPS build i ll take the highest and it will be counted as 1 > > > > > > > > the result was > > > > > > > > encounter_____________necromancer rank __ necromancer DPS/NO.1 DPS > > > > > > > > Vale Guardian___________________6________________19.9/24.2 > > > > > > > > Gorseval the Multifarious__________5________________18/21.3 > > > > > > > > Sabetha the Saboteur____________6_________________19.7/23.2 > > > > > > > > Slothasor______________________8_________________17.5/23.8 > > > > > > > > Matthias Gabrel_________________5________________19.6/25 > > > > > > > > Keep Construct_________________7_________________23.8/29 > > > > > > > > Xera_________________________6_________________15.3/18.7 > > > > > > > > Cairn the Indomitable___________9__________________24.4/35.9 > > > > > > > > Mursaat Overseer______________9__________________25.7/33.2 > > > > > > > > Samarog_____________________6__________________14.2/16.3 > > > > > > > > Deimos______________________8__________________16.7/26.8 > > > > > > > > Soulless Horror________________9__________________24.4/32.9 > > > > > > > > Voice in the Void______________4__________________13.9/16.4 > > > > > > > > Conjured Amalgamate__________6__________________35.1/46.5 > > > > > > > > Twin Largos__________________5__________________17.7/25.2 > > > > > > > > Qadim______________________7__________________13.9/18 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conclusion so the global stat from necromancer is 6.25 (highest possible score is 1 and lowest possible score is 9) > > > > > > > > but the fact that necromancer out DPS warrior in most of the time because warrior is a support DPS and taking in account total DPS increase to the whole group , warrior will out perform necromancer and taking that in account the new corrected global stat from necromancer is 7.25 (highest possible score is 1 and lowest possible score is 9) > > > > > > > > and i like to call that necromancer performance coefficient in raid > > > > > > > > and you claim that neromancer is in the middle of pack is as obscured as you claim that the game is balanced because > > > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > > > as long as a good player on necro can outdps every other profession played by an average player, its not a balance issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > good job,well done. > > > > > > > now it would be interessting what scores the other classes have. then we can compare where necro actually stands. > > > > > > > and since appearently you don´t know, warrior has a dps build, so you really should not take banners into account when you compare the dps values. > > > > > > > > > > > > i know necro is underperforming so i did the math its necromancer forum after all and the warrior builds provided by gw2raidar is with banner and we all know that is better than warrior DPS and i did say i ll take the most effective DPS build > > > > > > if you want to do the math for other profession be my guest and from what i saw when i did my calculation necro would be at the bottom and the only other profession that might come close to necro will be ranger > > > > > > > > > > no, full stop! > > > > > first: the warrior build on raidar are WITH an WITHOUT Banners, they sadly share the same "slot". but be assured that the top numbers are done WITHOUT banners. on condi at least, on power psb should be better then core, and then also, without banners. > > > > > second: dont get me wrong here, i don´t mean it hostile, but your score for necro is pretty meaningless if you dont compare it with other classes. > > > > > > > > > > did a "quick one" for warrior and got a "score" of 7,06. so WORSE then necro overall. yet i was perfectly able to join every group as war dps player so far (2 years +). ---> balance doesn´t matter. > > > > > > > > i did told that i ll take the most effective build for each profession so warrior with banner is the most effective build for warriors (DPS increase to the whole group is added to warrior DPS) > > > > and trying to compare warrior to necro is obscured > > > > BTW by taking warrior banner into consideration warrior score will be higher and the corrected necro score is 7.25 > > > > > > you just can´t change values because they don´t fit you good madam/Sir. > > > or do you want do do the math vor chrono dps group increase with the boon share? keep it real here. > > > why is it obscure? explain. > > > what are you talking about? waah?! > > > > > > > i did not change any value and if you want to ignore that warrior is better with banner that is you problem not mine > > and you want to keep it real well warrior give banner necro give nothing > > and chrono boon share is a support(not DPS) and this was about the most effective DPS build > > > > warrior with banners is support! > warrior without banners is dps. > i think you have no clue about raiding and classes in general and thats the problem. may be you have no clue about raiding and classes in general and thats the problem banner warrior is DPS support unlike boon share chrono which is support/tank not DPS unless you considered 7k to 8kDPS is an effective DPS build and i think you are a necro hater after all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonFury.6243 Posted December 7, 2018 Author Share Posted December 7, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > I never I said I know your schedule better than you. I'm just telling you that you aren't being honest if you are saying that you can't benefit from playing with a static group because you haven't learned to play that way and don't know if you can't benefit from it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One of the best parts about this thread is that you say it's not about you ... but clearly you are making it about you. > > > > > > > > > > > > not true i told you that static group wont help me because of my schedule > > > > > > > > > > so how do you know that if you have never learned to play with one? You simply can't conclude you won't benefit from it. You CERTAINLY can't conclude that it's not a valid solution for other people either, **especially** if you claim this thread isn't about you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i ll break it one by one for you > > > > some time i have time to spare Sunday other weeks Monday ohers Friday > > > > some time i have time to spare 8pm some times i have time to spare 10pm > > > > and next week will be other times > > > > so static group wont help me because of my schedule as i told you > > > > and i dont know how to explain this to you any more > > > > > > > > > > You don't know if you can't find a group of people that you can team with because you didn't learn and try; whatever your schedule is, it doesn't automatically exclude you from learning to play and joining groups when you are available ... and as you said before, this thread isn't about you anyways. > > > > > > So when I say this is a L2P issue, it's not because I'm lying or I'm pathetic or I'm denying what happens to necro who try to join PUG. It's because learning to play helps you ... learn to play. > > > > why should necro only raid with static group or start their own group and not allowed in PUGs while every other profession is > > Why? Because if you L2P, it doesn't matter. That's how the game is intentionally designed. > > Besides, your statement doesn't make sense and isn't being honest ... AGAIN. What classes are allowed in a PUG depends on the PUG itself. If any player wants a guaranteed spot on a PUG, they have to play the best DPS meta at the moment. The farther from that you are, the less chance you have to join a PUG. > > Again, you are going down this path of what YOU think should or shouldn't be in the game; it's irrelevant what any individual player thinks the game should be. The game simply can't cater to you as an individual. What is relevant is how the game actually IS and what options you have to deal with the problems you face. >   Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonFury.6243 Posted December 7, 2018 Author Share Posted December 7, 2018 > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Btw. this happend out of boredom with my static + 2 randoms (we don´t do w3 normaly) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.gw2raidar.com/encounter/TonnesPunchesNervousTrustsDrinking > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > setup was: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 chronos > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4 pReaper > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 cScouges > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 cReaper(!) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 support scourge > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > don´t mind the low dps numbers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a) mayor hickups in orb phase (we tried to insta pull in a circle with GS5, which happend 0/6 times) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b) most of us have never been on the golem with necro (okok, we honestly suck with that class) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > c) not min max gear + buffood > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it was a pretty chill (hehe) first try though. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we also 6 or 7(?) manned escort beforehand with 1 chrono rest necro. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > necro does fine in raids. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > no one here is arguing the capability of any profession to clear contents what we are here discussing is why a certain profession keep getting kicked from PUGs before they are allowed to do content > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so you finaly agree that its not a balance issues, perfect. can we now talk about the social issue why necro(an dh also in that regard) have a chance of not beeing accepted? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its is NOT a social issue its A PURE BALANCE issue as in a one certain profession doing way less than any other profession and it did stay at the bottom for too long > > > > > > > > > > > > > and you want it to stay the lowest for some reason > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sry, you sound like you want necro to be the be all, end all meta dps/support/power/condi class. > > > > > > > > > > > > > i want necro to be treated inline with other profession i can only assume where this irrational hatred toward necro is coming from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as long as a good player on necro can outdps every other profession played by an average player, its not a balance issue. > > > > > > > > > > > LMAO > > > > > > > > > > > what a sound argument that good necro can out DPS other profession played by bad players > > > > > > > > > > > and a good player on any other profession can out preform god tier necro player by alot > > > > > > > > > > > and by your definition its called a social issue > > > > > > > > > > > and its not in the middle here is a hint [sC benchmark](https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/ "SC benchmark") you ll see both necro elites are in the bottom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it might me a shocker but golem =/= actuall raidboss. you sound like an elitist! > > > > > > > > > > look at the global stats https://www.gw2raidar.com/global_stats an filter by boss. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from the data of gw2raidar stat filter by each boss and by taking the most effective DPS build for each profession on every boss and rank them on scale 1 to 9 (1 top 9 bottom) if a profession have 2 DPS build i ll take the highest and it will be counted as 1 > > > > > > > > > the result was > > > > > > > > > encounter_____________necromancer rank __ necromancer DPS/NO.1 DPS > > > > > > > > > Vale Guardian___________________6________________19.9/24.2 > > > > > > > > > Gorseval the Multifarious__________5________________18/21.3 > > > > > > > > > Sabetha the Saboteur____________6_________________19.7/23.2 > > > > > > > > > Slothasor______________________8_________________17.5/23.8 > > > > > > > > > Matthias Gabrel_________________5________________19.6/25 > > > > > > > > > Keep Construct_________________7_________________23.8/29 > > > > > > > > > Xera_________________________6_________________15.3/18.7 > > > > > > > > > Cairn the Indomitable___________9__________________24.4/35.9 > > > > > > > > > Mursaat Overseer______________9__________________25.7/33.2 > > > > > > > > > Samarog_____________________6__________________14.2/16.3 > > > > > > > > > Deimos______________________8__________________16.7/26.8 > > > > > > > > > Soulless Horror________________9__________________24.4/32.9 > > > > > > > > > Voice in the Void______________4__________________13.9/16.4 > > > > > > > > > Conjured Amalgamate__________6__________________35.1/46.5 > > > > > > > > > Twin Largos__________________5__________________17.7/25.2 > > > > > > > > > Qadim______________________7__________________13.9/18 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conclusion so the global stat from necromancer is 6.25 (highest possible score is 1 and lowest possible score is 9) > > > > > > > > > but the fact that necromancer out DPS warrior in most of the time because warrior is a support DPS and taking in account total DPS increase to the whole group , warrior will out perform necromancer and taking that in account the new corrected global stat from necromancer is 7.25 (highest possible score is 1 and lowest possible score is 9) > > > > > > > > > and i like to call that necromancer performance coefficient in raid > > > > > > > > > and you claim that neromancer is in the middle of pack is as obscured as you claim that the game is balanced because > > > > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > > > > as long as a good player on necro can outdps every other profession played by an average player, its not a balance issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > good job,well done. > > > > > > > > now it would be interessting what scores the other classes have. then we can compare where necro actually stands. > > > > > > > > and since appearently you don´t know, warrior has a dps build, so you really should not take banners into account when you compare the dps values. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i know necro is underperforming so i did the math its necromancer forum after all and the warrior builds provided by gw2raidar is with banner and we all know that is better than warrior DPS and i did say i ll take the most effective DPS build > > > > > > > if you want to do the math for other profession be my guest and from what i saw when i did my calculation necro would be at the bottom and the only other profession that might come close to necro will be ranger > > > > > > > > > > > > no, full stop! > > > > > > first: the warrior build on raidar are WITH an WITHOUT Banners, they sadly share the same "slot". but be assured that the top numbers are done WITHOUT banners. on condi at least, on power psb should be better then core, and then also, without banners. > > > > > > second: dont get me wrong here, i don´t mean it hostile, but your score for necro is pretty meaningless if you dont compare it with other classes. > > > > > > > > > > > > did a "quick one" for warrior and got a "score" of 7,06. so WORSE then necro overall. yet i was perfectly able to join every group as war dps player so far (2 years +). ---> balance doesn´t matter. > > > > > > > > > > i did told that i ll take the most effective build for each profession so warrior with banner is the most effective build for warriors (DPS increase to the whole group is added to warrior DPS) > > > > > and trying to compare warrior to necro is obscured > > > > > BTW by taking warrior banner into consideration warrior score will be higher and the corrected necro score is 7.25 > > > > > > > > you just can´t change values because they don´t fit you good madam/Sir. > > > > or do you want do do the math vor chrono dps group increase with the boon share? keep it real here. > > > > why is it obscure? explain. > > > > what are you talking about? waah?! > > > > > > > > > > i did not change any value and if you want to ignore that warrior is better with banner that is you problem not mine > > > and you want to keep it real well warrior give banner necro give nothing > > > and chrono boon share is a support(not DPS) and this was about the most effective DPS build > > > > > > > warrior with banners is support! > > warrior without banners is dps. > > i think you have no clue about raiding and classes in general and thats the problem. > > may be you have no clue about raiding and classes in general and thats the problem > banner warrior is DPS support unlike boon share chrono which is support/tank not DPS unless you considered 7k to 8kDPS is an effective DPS build > and i think you are a necro hater after all > may be i need to break it up for you step by step the most effective DPS build MEAN on a certain boss reaper do 10k dps and scourge do 13k dpe i ll take scourge because its the most effective DPS and in case of warrior core , SB or berserker i ll take banner core , SB or berserker because this the most effective build the DPS increase from the banner to the whole team is added to warrior DPS thus warrior out perform necromancer because warrior give banner and necromancer give nothing and before you tell me boon remova/corrup i say SB with banner is better and the corrected global stat from necromancer is 7.25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeceiverX.8361 Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 TL;DR: DF and Axl continue to go on their crusade of proving to the world they do not understand how the game works. Dadnir continues to prove he's one of the few level-headed necros with a grasp of the class' situation game-wide. Obtena continues to prove they understand macro-scale problems and continues to attempt to instill wisdom on serial complainers to no avail. Dace and Jethro win the award for immediately stating the problem is the community more than anything. And Sig is mostly right but repeatedly does a bad job at proving why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dace.8173 Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 > @"Axl.8924" said: > The problem is, look at the scourge support, it says on snowcrows unsubstantial and inefficient, and there you have a reason for elitists to deny you and flat out be elitist against a spec. > > I heard that the ones that were good in support are not fully correct, because of the change to scourge support.Wether this is true or not, its still super niche and very much a class build that has few places to shine or be desired. > > The word of the day is classism, and its not even 100% since its not a social class, but rather comparable to racism, so lets call it class racism. > > If ANET does stuff that encourages class elitism and class racism, then that is what is going to happen. They created some of the problems, so of course they have the responsibility of fixing it. It isn't our fault that the class has limitations that limit our dps to the point where we are less likely to be taken over one of the overlords of dps being:Thief Mesmers holomancers etc, because they have superior dps and these classes also have superior support, so where does that leave scourge in support? helping bad players who die constantly, but even in raids, that wont work since its perma death in escort if you die. I don't think ANet does stuff that encourages class elitism (I wouldn't use a term like class racism, especially in a video game context. Horribly inaccurate and semi-offensive to people who actually face real racism in life. Necromancer players being denied a raid is no where near a person being denied access to something due to the color of their skin). The problems that are present aren't created on purpose and they do try to address them. I think Arena Net would be at fault if they simply ignored Necromancer and did nothing with it. However, the nature of the issue prevents straightforward fixes that other professions or Elites get. Even if ANet simply up'd DPS I have doubts that would induce people to bring one along just due to the inherent elitism. They would have to up Necromancer DPS to the same levels that a Holosmith can output and that just amps up power creep (something folks are getting tired of by the by) and horrible rends balance. PUGs practically want OP and broken stuff in their parties and that isn't healthy for the game. You can't balance your game around elitist attitudes as they aren't really concerned with game balance. What you can do is join groups who don't have those elitist attitudes and who place more value on individual player enjoyment as opposed to speed clears. It's one of the reasons I join guilds. It gives me access to people who think and play like me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conqueror.3682 Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > TL;DR: > > DF and Axl continue to go on their crusade of proving to the world they do not understand how the game works. > Dadnir continues to prove he's one of the few level-headed necros with a grasp of the class' situation game-wide. > Obtena continues to prove they understand macro-scale problems and continues to attempt to instill wisdom on serial complainers to no avail. > Dace and Jethro win the award for immediately stating the problem is the community more than anything. > And Sig is mostly right but repeatedly does a bad job at proving why. > > Actually, this post is even more helpful than the last 2 pages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimon.7840 Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 > @"sigur.9453" said: > > @"Farkon.2170" said: > > > @"Dace.8173" said: > > > > @"Zero.3871" said: > > > > Even when i personally never do PvE (so i cannot speak from my personal experience), i see that there is obviously a Problem with necro in gw2. i also dont understand why People prefer to wait 5 more minutes for Special classes than needing 2 more min with necro in Team. of Course it is stupid, but finally this Situation is real and anet created that by mishandling the necromancer FOR YEARS. Maybe necro could easily do that stuff but anet made community toxic AGAINST necros and **should take responsibility** for this and make the game fun for necro mains again because games should be fun and not frustrating. > > > > > > > > maybe at the very beginning of the game the current performance of necros would be enough, but after all the years of necro underperformance in pve we have that situation (and i really feel with OP, because his screenshoots are real and frustrating). atm, after years of mishandling the Situation there is just 1 solution left, bringing necro exactly in line with others. > > > > > > Arena Net did not make people toxic against Necromancers. That's just silly and a statement you can't support. The situation is not as simplistic as you paint it and ignores far too many important factors. > > > > > > > > > > Indirectly they did. Indirectly they can prevent people from being toxic to Necromancers by giving them a feasible role in which they can contribute to, whether it's DPS, Support, or another viable role. > > With a role then players will have a need for them instead of the opposite. > > Also, there's a lot of assumptions being flung around and I found it amusing when you got mad at my quotes. > > Regardless, the fact of the matter is Necros are underperforming and unfriendly to newer players due to never being updated and their innate limitations as well, we can argue the semantics until we're throwing mud around like monkeys, but it doesn't change that fact. > > But there are already viable dps an support options. They are even meta on some bosses. I think we don't need to talk about wvw. And they are quite the opposite of unfriendly to new players which imo is the main reason of the "necro hate". Regarding viability necros are in line with other professions. Wait. We have 2 bosses where scourge is meta. Soulless horror, but you only take one scourge there, to epi the golems and wurms And sabetha to kite and kill adds. Regarding viability necro is definetly not in line with other professions. No DPS spec that can compete with the other classes No support spec that is good outside of one to carry complete idiots (and then they might still not do enough damage) The big issue with necromancer: anet has to make everything about booncorrupt and area damage, which is just not needed or good for engame pve. Unless they bring a boss, that constantly applies boons to corrupt into bleed/torment/confusion/burning And also make the boss an addboss that is just killing 5billion adds in fast time (power classes might be better for this though) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigur.9453 Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > @"Farkon.2170" said: > > > > @"Dace.8173" said: > > > > > @"Zero.3871" said: > > > > > Even when i personally never do PvE (so i cannot speak from my personal experience), i see that there is obviously a Problem with necro in gw2. i also dont understand why People prefer to wait 5 more minutes for Special classes than needing 2 more min with necro in Team. of Course it is stupid, but finally this Situation is real and anet created that by mishandling the necromancer FOR YEARS. Maybe necro could easily do that stuff but anet made community toxic AGAINST necros and **should take responsibility** for this and make the game fun for necro mains again because games should be fun and not frustrating. > > > > > > > > > > maybe at the very beginning of the game the current performance of necros would be enough, but after all the years of necro underperformance in pve we have that situation (and i really feel with OP, because his screenshoots are real and frustrating). atm, after years of mishandling the Situation there is just 1 solution left, bringing necro exactly in line with others. > > > > > > > > Arena Net did not make people toxic against Necromancers. That's just silly and a statement you can't support. The situation is not as simplistic as you paint it and ignores far too many important factors. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Indirectly they did. Indirectly they can prevent people from being toxic to Necromancers by giving them a feasible role in which they can contribute to, whether it's DPS, Support, or another viable role. > > > With a role then players will have a need for them instead of the opposite. > > > Also, there's a lot of assumptions being flung around and I found it amusing when you got mad at my quotes. > > > Regardless, the fact of the matter is Necros are underperforming and unfriendly to newer players due to never being updated and their innate limitations as well, we can argue the semantics until we're throwing mud around like monkeys, but it doesn't change that fact. > > > > But there are already viable dps an support options. They are even meta on some bosses. I think we don't need to talk about wvw. And they are quite the opposite of unfriendly to new players which imo is the main reason of the "necro hate". Regarding viability necros are in line with other professions. > > Wait. We have 2 bosses where scourge is meta. > > Soulless horror, but you only take one scourge there, to epi the golems and wurms > > And sabetha to kite and kill adds. > > Regarding viability necro is definetly not in line with other professions. > > No DPS spec that can compete with the other classes > No support spec that is good outside of one to carry complete idiots (and then they might still not do enough damage) > > The big issue with necromancer: anet has to make everything about booncorrupt and area damage, which is just not needed or good for engame pve. > > Unless they bring a boss, that constantly applies boons to corrupt into bleed/torment/confusion/burning > And also make the boss an addboss that is just killing 5billion adds in fast time (power classes might be better for this though) Beeing meta is not nessasary to get into pug groups. You sound like an elitist. Ironicly this thread only exists because off people with your mindset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axl.8924 Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > TL;DR: > > DF and Axl continue to go on their crusade of proving to the world they do not understand how the game works. > Dadnir continues to prove he's one of the few level-headed necros with a grasp of the class' situation game-wide. > Obtena continues to prove they understand macro-scale problems and continues to attempt to instill wisdom on serial complainers to no avail. > Dace and Jethro win the award for immediately stating the problem is the community more than anything. > And Sig is mostly right but repeatedly does a bad job at proving why. I disagree. Why should we the player suffer the nerf to grit because of something ANET did? tell me how that is wrong what I said? they created the problem not us, and what if that rune is making eles op? I know they got little hp bars, but still, all it takes is something small like that to break balance, and they nerfed scourge more. For fractals? I would agree necromancers are in a great place mostly, and they are certainly better than before for raids, because reaper Is closer than ever, but don't pretend that necro isn't something like 3k and up below most classes, which is a lot. Also:What did I say wrong about the fact that ANET created a problem by putting defensive and offensive abilities together? Added bonus:All that is being said by obtenna is necros are fine l2p over and over, and that it doesn't matter that they are 3 to 5k below classes on reaper and 8 and up on scourge.Me and dace are the only ones who are talking and not necessarily 100% with Dragon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonFury.6243 Posted December 8, 2018 Author Share Posted December 8, 2018 > @"Axl.8924" said: > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > TL;DR: > > > > DF and Axl continue to go on their crusade of proving to the world they do not understand how the game works. > > Dadnir continues to prove he's one of the few level-headed necros with a grasp of the class' situation game-wide. > > Obtena continues to prove they understand macro-scale problems and continues to attempt to instill wisdom on serial complainers to no avail. > > Dace and Jethro win the award for immediately stating the problem is the community more than anything. > > And Sig is mostly right but repeatedly does a bad job at proving why. > > I disagree. > > Why should we the player suffer the nerf to grit because of something ANET did? tell me how that is wrong what I said? they created the problem not us, and what if that rune is making eles op? I know they got little hp bars, but still, all it takes is something small like that to break balance, and they nerfed scourge more. > > For fractals? I would agree necromancers are in a great place mostly, and they are certainly better than before for raids, because reaper Is closer than ever, but don't pretend that necro isn't something like 3k and up below most classes, which is a lot. > > Also:What did I say wrong about the fact that ANET created a problem by putting defensive and offensive abilities together? > > Added bonus:All that is being said by obtenna is necros are fine l2p over and over, and that it doesn't matter that they are 3 to 5k below classes on reaper and 8 and up on scourge.Me and dace are the only ones who are talking and not necessarily 100% with Dragon. > just to add we had rune and sigil rework and the only profession in the game that get nerf in all game mode is necro rest profession are still waiting for the next balance patch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonFury.6243 Posted December 8, 2018 Author Share Posted December 8, 2018 > @"sigur.9453" said: > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > @"Farkon.2170" said: > > > > > @"Dace.8173" said: > > > > > > @"Zero.3871" said: > > > > > > Even when i personally never do PvE (so i cannot speak from my personal experience), i see that there is obviously a Problem with necro in gw2. i also dont understand why People prefer to wait 5 more minutes for Special classes than needing 2 more min with necro in Team. of Course it is stupid, but finally this Situation is real and anet created that by mishandling the necromancer FOR YEARS. Maybe necro could easily do that stuff but anet made community toxic AGAINST necros and **should take responsibility** for this and make the game fun for necro mains again because games should be fun and not frustrating. > > > > > > > > > > > > maybe at the very beginning of the game the current performance of necros would be enough, but after all the years of necro underperformance in pve we have that situation (and i really feel with OP, because his screenshoots are real and frustrating). atm, after years of mishandling the Situation there is just 1 solution left, bringing necro exactly in line with others. > > > > > > > > > > Arena Net did not make people toxic against Necromancers. That's just silly and a statement you can't support. The situation is not as simplistic as you paint it and ignores far too many important factors. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Indirectly they did. Indirectly they can prevent people from being toxic to Necromancers by giving them a feasible role in which they can contribute to, whether it's DPS, Support, or another viable role. > > > > With a role then players will have a need for them instead of the opposite. > > > > Also, there's a lot of assumptions being flung around and I found it amusing when you got mad at my quotes. > > > > Regardless, the fact of the matter is Necros are underperforming and unfriendly to newer players due to never being updated and their innate limitations as well, we can argue the semantics until we're throwing mud around like monkeys, but it doesn't change that fact. > > > > > > But there are already viable dps an support options. They are even meta on some bosses. I think we don't need to talk about wvw. And they are quite the opposite of unfriendly to new players which imo is the main reason of the "necro hate". Regarding viability necros are in line with other professions. > > > > Wait. We have 2 bosses where scourge is meta. > > > > Soulless horror, but you only take one scourge there, to epi the golems and wurms > > > > And sabetha to kite and kill adds. > > > > Regarding viability necro is definetly not in line with other professions. > > > > No DPS spec that can compete with the other classes > > No support spec that is good outside of one to carry complete idiots (and then they might still not do enough damage) > > > > The big issue with necromancer: anet has to make everything about booncorrupt and area damage, which is just not needed or good for engame pve. > > > > Unless they bring a boss, that constantly applies boons to corrupt into bleed/torment/confusion/burning > > And also make the boss an addboss that is just killing 5billion adds in fast time (power classes might be better for this though) > > Beeing meta is not nessasary to get into pug groups. You sound like an elitist. Ironicly this thread only exists because off people with your mindset. no because off people with your mindset that want necro to stay the lowest DPS profession in the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axl.8924 Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 You could still make your own raids or join a guild dragon. Also when I was talking to dace earlier, I was talking about the intricacies of the tools, and the reason for difficulties of balance, which is still something important, since mechanical balances are something that are problematic. Dace and I I feel are contributing a lot to the conversation, as we are not obsessing over can a necro or can a necro not raid, rather which mechanics we feel could be improved and how and talk about the problems regarding the nature of boon corrupt and it overlapping in pve and why cant this be fixed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonFury.6243 Posted December 8, 2018 Author Share Posted December 8, 2018 > @"Axl.8924" said: > You could still make your own raids or join a guild dragon. > > Also when I was talking to dace earlier, I was talking about the intricacies of the tools, and the reason for difficulties of balance, which is still something important, since mechanical balances are something that are problematic. > > Dace and I I feel are contributing a lot to the conversation, as we are not obsessing over can a necro or can a necro not raid, rather which mechanics we feel could be improved and how and talk about the problems regarding the nature of boon corrupt and it overlapping in pve and why cant this be fixed? > i am not obsessing over can a necro or can a necro not raid, but necro join group or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonFury.6243 Posted December 8, 2018 Author Share Posted December 8, 2018 > @"sigur.9453" said: > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > > > Btw. this happend out of boredom with my static + 2 randoms (we don´t do w3 normaly) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.gw2raidar.com/encounter/TonnesPunchesNervousTrustsDrinking > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > setup was: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 chronos > > > > > > > > > 4 pReaper > > > > > > > > > 2 cScouges > > > > > > > > > 1 cReaper(!) > > > > > > > > > 1 support scourge > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > don´t mind the low dps numbers > > > > > > > > > a) mayor hickups in orb phase (we tried to insta pull in a circle with GS5, which happend 0/6 times) > > > > > > > > > b) most of us have never been on the golem with necro (okok, we honestly suck with that class) > > > > > > > > > c) not min max gear + buffood > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it was a pretty chill (hehe) first try though. > > > > > > > > > we also 6 or 7(?) manned escort beforehand with 1 chrono rest necro. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > necro does fine in raids. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > no one here is arguing the capability of any profession to clear contents what we are here discussing is why a certain profession keep getting kicked from PUGs before they are allowed to do content > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so you finaly agree that its not a balance issues, perfect. can we now talk about the social issue why necro(an dh also in that regard) have a chance of not beeing accepted? > > > > > > > > > > > > its is NOT a social issue its A PURE BALANCE issue as in a one certain profession doing way less than any other profession and it did stay at the bottom for too long > > > > > > and you want it to stay the lowest for some reason > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > sry, you sound like you want necro to be the be all, end all meta dps/support/power/condi class. > > > > > > i want necro to be treated inline with other profession i can only assume where this irrational hatred toward necro is coming from > > > > > > > > > > as long as a good player on necro can outdps every other profession played by an average player, its not a balance issue. > > > > LMAO > > > > what a sound argument that good necro can out DPS other profession played by bad players > > > > and a good player on any other profession can out preform god tier necro player by alot > > > > and by your definition its called a social issue > > > > and its not in the middle here is a hint [sC benchmark](https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/ "SC benchmark") you ll see both necro elites are in the bottom > > > > > > it might me a shocker but golem =/= actuall raidboss. you sound like an elitist! > > > look at the global stats https://www.gw2raidar.com/global_stats an filter by boss. > > > > > > > from the data of gw2raidar stat filter by each boss and by taking the most effective DPS build for each profession on every boss and rank them on scale 1 to 9 (1 top 9 bottom) if a profession have 2 DPS build i ll take the highest and it will be counted as 1 > > the result was > > encounter_____________necromancer rank __ necromancer DPS/NO.1 DPS > > Vale Guardian___________________6________________19.9/24.2 > > Gorseval the Multifarious__________5________________18/21.3 > > Sabetha the Saboteur____________6_________________19.7/23.2 > > Slothasor______________________8_________________17.5/23.8 > > Matthias Gabrel_________________5________________19.6/25 > > Keep Construct_________________7_________________23.8/29 > > Xera_________________________6_________________15.3/18.7 > > Cairn the Indomitable___________9__________________24.4/35.9 > > Mursaat Overseer______________9__________________25.7/33.2 > > Samarog_____________________6__________________14.2/16.3 > > Deimos______________________8__________________16.7/26.8 > > Soulless Horror________________9__________________24.4/32.9 > > Voice in the Void______________4__________________13.9/16.4 > > Conjured Amalgamate__________6__________________35.1/46.5 > > Twin Largos__________________5__________________17.7/25.2 > > Qadim______________________7__________________13.9/18 > > > > conclusion so the global stat from necromancer is 6.25 (highest possible score is 1 and lowest possible score is 9) > > but the fact that necromancer out DPS warrior in most of the time because warrior is a support DPS and taking in account total DPS increase to the whole group , warrior will out perform necromancer and taking that in account the new corrected global stat from necromancer is 7.25 (highest possible score is 1 and lowest possible score is 9) > > and i like to call that necromancer performance coefficient in raid > > and you claim that neromancer is in the middle of pack is as obscured as you claim that the game is balanced because > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > as long as a good player on necro can outdps every other profession played by an average player, its not a balance issue. > > good job,well done. > now it would be interessting what scores the other classes have. then we can compare where necro actually stands. 1-THIEF___________3 2-REVENANT______3.4375 3-ELEMENTALIST___3.9375 4-ENGINEER_______4 5-MESMER_______4.4375 6-GUARDIAN_____5.5625 7-NECROMANCER_6.625 8-WARRIOR______6.9375 9-RANGER_______7.1875 ranger as a profession wont suffer because PUGs still want 1 to 2 as a healer druids(kiter/pusher) warrior as a profession wont suffer because PUGs still want at least 1 for banner necromancer give nothing( boon removal that SB banner job) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabbitUp.8294 Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Btw. this happend out of boredom with my static + 2 randoms (we don´t do w3 normaly) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.gw2raidar.com/encounter/TonnesPunchesNervousTrustsDrinking > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > setup was: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 chronos > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4 pReaper > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 cScouges > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 cReaper(!) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 support scourge > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > don´t mind the low dps numbers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a) mayor hickups in orb phase (we tried to insta pull in a circle with GS5, which happend 0/6 times) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b) most of us have never been on the golem with necro (okok, we honestly suck with that class) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > c) not min max gear + buffood > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it was a pretty chill (hehe) first try though. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we also 6 or 7(?) manned escort beforehand with 1 chrono rest necro. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > necro does fine in raids. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > no one here is arguing the capability of any profession to clear contents what we are here discussing is why a certain profession keep getting kicked from PUGs before they are allowed to do content > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so you finaly agree that its not a balance issues, perfect. can we now talk about the social issue why necro(an dh also in that regard) have a chance of not beeing accepted? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its is NOT a social issue its A PURE BALANCE issue as in a one certain profession doing way less than any other profession and it did stay at the bottom for too long > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and you want it to stay the lowest for some reason > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sry, you sound like you want necro to be the be all, end all meta dps/support/power/condi class. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i want necro to be treated inline with other profession i can only assume where this irrational hatred toward necro is coming from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as long as a good player on necro can outdps every other profession played by an average player, its not a balance issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > LMAO > > > > > > > > > > > > what a sound argument that good necro can out DPS other profession played by bad players > > > > > > > > > > > > and a good player on any other profession can out preform god tier necro player by alot > > > > > > > > > > > > and by your definition its called a social issue > > > > > > > > > > > > and its not in the middle here is a hint [sC benchmark](https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/ "SC benchmark") you ll see both necro elites are in the bottom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it might me a shocker but golem =/= actuall raidboss. you sound like an elitist! > > > > > > > > > > > look at the global stats https://www.gw2raidar.com/global_stats an filter by boss. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from the data of gw2raidar stat filter by each boss and by taking the most effective DPS build for each profession on every boss and rank them on scale 1 to 9 (1 top 9 bottom) if a profession have 2 DPS build i ll take the highest and it will be counted as 1 > > > > > > > > > > the result was > > > > > > > > > > encounter_____________necromancer rank __ necromancer DPS/NO.1 DPS > > > > > > > > > > Vale Guardian___________________6________________19.9/24.2 > > > > > > > > > > Gorseval the Multifarious__________5________________18/21.3 > > > > > > > > > > Sabetha the Saboteur____________6_________________19.7/23.2 > > > > > > > > > > Slothasor______________________8_________________17.5/23.8 > > > > > > > > > > Matthias Gabrel_________________5________________19.6/25 > > > > > > > > > > Keep Construct_________________7_________________23.8/29 > > > > > > > > > > Xera_________________________6_________________15.3/18.7 > > > > > > > > > > Cairn the Indomitable___________9__________________24.4/35.9 > > > > > > > > > > Mursaat Overseer______________9__________________25.7/33.2 > > > > > > > > > > Samarog_____________________6__________________14.2/16.3 > > > > > > > > > > Deimos______________________8__________________16.7/26.8 > > > > > > > > > > Soulless Horror________________9__________________24.4/32.9 > > > > > > > > > > Voice in the Void______________4__________________13.9/16.4 > > > > > > > > > > Conjured Amalgamate__________6__________________35.1/46.5 > > > > > > > > > > Twin Largos__________________5__________________17.7/25.2 > > > > > > > > > > Qadim______________________7__________________13.9/18 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conclusion so the global stat from necromancer is 6.25 (highest possible score is 1 and lowest possible score is 9) > > > > > > > > > > but the fact that necromancer out DPS warrior in most of the time because warrior is a support DPS and taking in account total DPS increase to the whole group , warrior will out perform necromancer and taking that in account the new corrected global stat from necromancer is 7.25 (highest possible score is 1 and lowest possible score is 9) > > > > > > > > > > and i like to call that necromancer performance coefficient in raid > > > > > > > > > > and you claim that neromancer is in the middle of pack is as obscured as you claim that the game is balanced because > > > > > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > > > > > as long as a good player on necro can outdps every other profession played by an average player, its not a balance issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > good job,well done. > > > > > > > > > now it would be interessting what scores the other classes have. then we can compare where necro actually stands. > > > > > > > > > and since appearently you don´t know, warrior has a dps build, so you really should not take banners into account when you compare the dps values. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i know necro is underperforming so i did the math its necromancer forum after all and the warrior builds provided by gw2raidar is with banner and we all know that is better than warrior DPS and i did say i ll take the most effective DPS build > > > > > > > > if you want to do the math for other profession be my guest and from what i saw when i did my calculation necro would be at the bottom and the only other profession that might come close to necro will be ranger > > > > > > > > > > > > > > no, full stop! > > > > > > > first: the warrior build on raidar are WITH an WITHOUT Banners, they sadly share the same "slot". but be assured that the top numbers are done WITHOUT banners. on condi at least, on power psb should be better then core, and then also, without banners. > > > > > > > second: dont get me wrong here, i don´t mean it hostile, but your score for necro is pretty meaningless if you dont compare it with other classes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did a "quick one" for warrior and got a "score" of 7,06. so WORSE then necro overall. yet i was perfectly able to join every group as war dps player so far (2 years +). ---> balance doesn´t matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > i did told that i ll take the most effective build for each profession so warrior with banner is the most effective build for warriors (DPS increase to the whole group is added to warrior DPS) > > > > > > and trying to compare warrior to necro is obscured > > > > > > BTW by taking warrior banner into consideration warrior score will be higher and the corrected necro score is 7.25 > > > > > > > > > > you just can´t change values because they don´t fit you good madam/Sir. > > > > > or do you want do do the math vor chrono dps group increase with the boon share? keep it real here. > > > > > why is it obscure? explain. > > > > > what are you talking about? waah?! > > > > > > > > > > > > > i did not change any value and if you want to ignore that warrior is better with banner that is you problem not mine > > > > and you want to keep it real well warrior give banner necro give nothing > > > > and chrono boon share is a support(not DPS) and this was about the most effective DPS build > > > > > > > > > > warrior with banners is support! > > > warrior without banners is dps. > > > i think you have no clue about raiding and classes in general and thats the problem. > > > > may be you have no clue about raiding and classes in general and thats the problem > > banner warrior is DPS support unlike boon share chrono which is support/tank not DPS unless you considered 7k to 8kDPS is an effective DPS build > > and i think you are a necro hater after all > > > may be i need to break it up for you step by step > the most effective DPS build MEAN on a certain boss reaper do 10k dps and scourge do 13k dpe i ll take scourge because its the most effective DPS > and in case of warrior core , SB or berserker i ll take banner core , SB or berserker because this the most effective build the DPS increase from the banner to the whole team is added to warrior DPS > thus warrior out perform necromancer because warrior give banner and necromancer give nothing and before you tell me boon remova/corrup i say SB with banner is better > and the corrected global stat from necromancer is 7.25 God, this nonsense physically hurts to read. You can't calculate group dps as part of warrior's dps, because that contribution is already included in every dps score of every dps build. Those high scores are only possible with banner buffs and chrono boons. Bannerslave is not a dps build, even if it does higher personal damage than a more typical support like chrono. If you add group contribution to a support's personal dps and remove it from pure dps builds, you will find that bannerslave and chrono have the highest damage, which is why they are brought in the first place. If their group contribution didn't offset the lower personal dps, you would raid with 10 dps builds. So, no, stop counting banners because it suits you. Plus, banner warrior only gets a single squad slot, every additional warrior would have to come as pure dps. As for what utility necro brings, if you think boon corrupt is it, you haven't being paying attention to the raid scene. Chrono already provides enough boon removal for 99% of encounters, what scourge brings as support is barrier and healing, tons of condi removal/conversion, best revival access in the game. And for the dps role, epidemic stacking is best dps you can find in every encounter in which it's possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigur.9453 Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > > > > Btw. this happend out of boredom with my static + 2 randoms (we don´t do w3 normaly) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.gw2raidar.com/encounter/TonnesPunchesNervousTrustsDrinking > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > setup was: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 chronos > > > > > > > > > > 4 pReaper > > > > > > > > > > 2 cScouges > > > > > > > > > > 1 cReaper(!) > > > > > > > > > > 1 support scourge > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > don´t mind the low dps numbers > > > > > > > > > > a) mayor hickups in orb phase (we tried to insta pull in a circle with GS5, which happend 0/6 times) > > > > > > > > > > b) most of us have never been on the golem with necro (okok, we honestly suck with that class) > > > > > > > > > > c) not min max gear + buffood > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it was a pretty chill (hehe) first try though. > > > > > > > > > > we also 6 or 7(?) manned escort beforehand with 1 chrono rest necro. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > necro does fine in raids. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > no one here is arguing the capability of any profession to clear contents what we are here discussing is why a certain profession keep getting kicked from PUGs before they are allowed to do content > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so you finaly agree that its not a balance issues, perfect. can we now talk about the social issue why necro(an dh also in that regard) have a chance of not beeing accepted? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its is NOT a social issue its A PURE BALANCE issue as in a one certain profession doing way less than any other profession and it did stay at the bottom for too long > > > > > > > and you want it to stay the lowest for some reason > > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > > > sry, you sound like you want necro to be the be all, end all meta dps/support/power/condi class. > > > > > > > i want necro to be treated inline with other profession i can only assume where this irrational hatred toward necro is coming from > > > > > > > > > > > > as long as a good player on necro can outdps every other profession played by an average player, its not a balance issue. > > > > > LMAO > > > > > what a sound argument that good necro can out DPS other profession played by bad players > > > > > and a good player on any other profession can out preform god tier necro player by alot > > > > > and by your definition its called a social issue > > > > > and its not in the middle here is a hint [sC benchmark](https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/ "SC benchmark") you ll see both necro elites are in the bottom > > > > > > > > it might me a shocker but golem =/= actuall raidboss. you sound like an elitist! > > > > look at the global stats https://www.gw2raidar.com/global_stats an filter by boss. > > > > > > > > > > from the data of gw2raidar stat filter by each boss and by taking the most effective DPS build for each profession on every boss and rank them on scale 1 to 9 (1 top 9 bottom) if a profession have 2 DPS build i ll take the highest and it will be counted as 1 > > > the result was > > > encounter_____________necromancer rank __ necromancer DPS/NO.1 DPS > > > Vale Guardian___________________6________________19.9/24.2 > > > Gorseval the Multifarious__________5________________18/21.3 > > > Sabetha the Saboteur____________6_________________19.7/23.2 > > > Slothasor______________________8_________________17.5/23.8 > > > Matthias Gabrel_________________5________________19.6/25 > > > Keep Construct_________________7_________________23.8/29 > > > Xera_________________________6_________________15.3/18.7 > > > Cairn the Indomitable___________9__________________24.4/35.9 > > > Mursaat Overseer______________9__________________25.7/33.2 > > > Samarog_____________________6__________________14.2/16.3 > > > Deimos______________________8__________________16.7/26.8 > > > Soulless Horror________________9__________________24.4/32.9 > > > Voice in the Void______________4__________________13.9/16.4 > > > Conjured Amalgamate__________6__________________35.1/46.5 > > > Twin Largos__________________5__________________17.7/25.2 > > > Qadim______________________7__________________13.9/18 > > > > > > conclusion so the global stat from necromancer is 6.25 (highest possible score is 1 and lowest possible score is 9) > > > but the fact that necromancer out DPS warrior in most of the time because warrior is a support DPS and taking in account total DPS increase to the whole group , warrior will out perform necromancer and taking that in account the new corrected global stat from necromancer is 7.25 (highest possible score is 1 and lowest possible score is 9) > > > and i like to call that necromancer performance coefficient in raid > > > and you claim that neromancer is in the middle of pack is as obscured as you claim that the game is balanced because > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > as long as a good player on necro can outdps every other profession played by an average player, its not a balance issue. > > > > good job,well done. > > now it would be interessting what scores the other classes have. then we can compare where necro actually stands. > > 1-THIEF___________3 > 2-REVENANT______3.4375 > 3-ELEMENTALIST___3.9375 > 4-ENGINEER_______4 > 5-MESMER_______4.4375 > 6-GUARDIAN_____5.5625 > 7-NECROMANCER_6.625 > 8-WARRIOR______6.9375 > 9-RANGER_______7.1875 > > ranger as a profession wont suffer because PUGs still want 1 to 2 as a healer druids(kiter/pusher) > warrior as a profession wont suffer because PUGs still want at least 1 for banner > necromancer give nothing( boon removal that SB banner job) > > Good job again. But sadly you still don't get it and show once again that you are at best a beginner when it comes to raids or let's say only playing it super casually. 2 druids is worse than one druid and a sup scourge. Sb banner for boon removal? Seriously? But to get back to the topic. Why I can join pug groups as a DPS warrior and a DPS soulbeast (and necro obviously) while you can't as a dps necro? What are the variables that change in my experience and yours? Do make it easier: it's certainly not balance since we both play the same game. Think about it and maybe you will see the major differences................ It's the person that wants to join a group. And it's the groups that you want to join. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > You could still make your own raids or join a guild dragon. > > > > Also when I was talking to dace earlier, I was talking about the intricacies of the tools, and the reason for difficulties of balance, which is still something important, since mechanical balances are something that are problematic. > > > > Dace and I I feel are contributing a lot to the conversation, as we are not obsessing over can a necro or can a necro not raid, rather which mechanics we feel could be improved and how and talk about the problems regarding the nature of boon corrupt and it overlapping in pve and why cant this be fixed? > > > > i am not obsessing over can a necro or can a necro not raid, but necro join group or not Right .. because necros that join groups don't want to raid >< They just want to RP and have tea and biscuits. Again, this is the dishonesty that people are talking about. The reason you are joining a group is to do raids, etc ... don't be so pedantic to shut down people's discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farkon.2170 Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 I like to RP as a necro all the time. Farkon takes a look at the skull he's holding up, making sure that it's gleaming in the moonlight. Without a polished skull, this focus will not work. Farkon stows the skull into the bag, towards the right corner of the bag, along with other regiments needed for basic spell casting. WIthout such things, the more intricate of spells will be out of reach, and being prepared is key oh yes indeed! But I get kicked out of raid groups because I'm a necro so meh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeceiverX.8361 Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 > @"Conqueror.3682" said: > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > TL;DR: > > > > DF and Axl continue to go on their crusade of proving to the world they do not understand how the game works. > > Dadnir continues to prove he's one of the few level-headed necros with a grasp of the class' situation game-wide. > > Obtena continues to prove they understand macro-scale problems and continues to attempt to instill wisdom on serial complainers to no avail. > > Dace and Jethro win the award for immediately stating the problem is the community more than anything. > > And Sig is mostly right but repeatedly does a bad job at proving why. > > > > > > Actually, this post is even more helpful than the last 2 pages. I call 'em like I see 'em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axl.8924 Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > @"Conqueror.3682" said: > > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > > TL;DR: > > > > > > DF and Axl continue to go on their crusade of proving to the world they do not understand how the game works. > > > Dadnir continues to prove he's one of the few level-headed necros with a grasp of the class' situation game-wide. > > > Obtena continues to prove they understand macro-scale problems and continues to attempt to instill wisdom on serial complainers to no avail. > > > Dace and Jethro win the award for immediately stating the problem is the community more than anything. > > > And Sig is mostly right but repeatedly does a bad job at proving why. > > > > > > > > > > Actually, this post is even more helpful than the last 2 pages. > > I call 'em like I see 'em. Considering the status of raidar, necro is more than viable. If you look at scourge, they are plenty viable as healer, and condi scourge has more than a couple raids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dace.8173 Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 > @"Axl.8924" said: > You could still make your own raids or join a guild dragon. > > Also when I was talking to dace earlier, I was talking about the intricacies of the tools, and the reason for difficulties of balance, which is still something important, since mechanical balances are something that are problematic. > > Dace and I I feel are contributing a lot to the conversation, as we are not obsessing over can a necro or can a necro not raid, rather which mechanics we feel could be improved and how and talk about the problems regarding the nature of boon corrupt and it overlapping in pve and why cant this be fixed? > I'd say I'd have to agree. I think obsessing over the act of joining is pointless and counterproductive. A bunch of screenshots of people saying no isn't a revolutionary knowledge bomb drop. We've known this for 6 years now, so they are somewhat pointless unless the goal is to either complain for the sake of complaining or to manipulate people to your position if they weren't already there. I think there are a lot of practical steps that can be taken that could improve the situation that doesn't rely on ANet balancing Necromancer against the elitist obsessions of the PUG community. There clearly are mechanics that need adjusting and fixing but I have never really bought into the this "woe is me, everything sucks for us" mindset that some people attempt to pass off as constructive conversation. I think you can demand mechanical changes while at the same time working within the social aspect of the game to still get what you want. Working the social aspect is also the only way to prove elitist PUGers wrong and to show people that Necromancer is capable so that over time more and more people start allowing them on teams for end game content. If you are able to demonstrate to enough people that Necromancer is capable of contributing to the team then acceptance onto teams will slowly start moving in the right direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conqueror.3682 Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018  How often does this happen? Also does it happen to other professions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimon.7840 Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 > @"sigur.9453" said: > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > @"Farkon.2170" said: > > > > > @"Dace.8173" said: > > > > > > @"Zero.3871" said: > > > > > > Even when i personally never do PvE (so i cannot speak from my personal experience), i see that there is obviously a Problem with necro in gw2. i also dont understand why People prefer to wait 5 more minutes for Special classes than needing 2 more min with necro in Team. of Course it is stupid, but finally this Situation is real and anet created that by mishandling the necromancer FOR YEARS. Maybe necro could easily do that stuff but anet made community toxic AGAINST necros and **should take responsibility** for this and make the game fun for necro mains again because games should be fun and not frustrating. > > > > > > > > > > > > maybe at the very beginning of the game the current performance of necros would be enough, but after all the years of necro underperformance in pve we have that situation (and i really feel with OP, because his screenshoots are real and frustrating). atm, after years of mishandling the Situation there is just 1 solution left, bringing necro exactly in line with others. > > > > > > > > > > Arena Net did not make people toxic against Necromancers. That's just silly and a statement you can't support. The situation is not as simplistic as you paint it and ignores far too many important factors. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Indirectly they did. Indirectly they can prevent people from being toxic to Necromancers by giving them a feasible role in which they can contribute to, whether it's DPS, Support, or another viable role. > > > > With a role then players will have a need for them instead of the opposite. > > > > Also, there's a lot of assumptions being flung around and I found it amusing when you got mad at my quotes. > > > > Regardless, the fact of the matter is Necros are underperforming and unfriendly to newer players due to never being updated and their innate limitations as well, we can argue the semantics until we're throwing mud around like monkeys, but it doesn't change that fact. > > > > > > But there are already viable dps an support options. They are even meta on some bosses. I think we don't need to talk about wvw. And they are quite the opposite of unfriendly to new players which imo is the main reason of the "necro hate". Regarding viability necros are in line with other professions. > > > > Wait. We have 2 bosses where scourge is meta. > > > > Soulless horror, but you only take one scourge there, to epi the golems and wurms > > > > And sabetha to kite and kill adds. > > > > Regarding viability necro is definetly not in line with other professions. > > > > No DPS spec that can compete with the other classes > > No support spec that is good outside of one to carry complete idiots (and then they might still not do enough damage) > > > > The big issue with necromancer: anet has to make everything about booncorrupt and area damage, which is just not needed or good for engame pve. > > > > Unless they bring a boss, that constantly applies boons to corrupt into bleed/torment/confusion/burning > > And also make the boss an addboss that is just killing 5billion adds in fast time (power classes might be better for this though) > > Beeing meta is not nessasary to get into pug groups. You sound like an elitist. Ironicly this thread only exists because off people with your mindset. I'm not an elitist. By far not. I just wanna be effective for my group, whatever group I play in. If it's in my static or in pugs. But if I put the same amount of work into another class, that I put work into necro, every other class id play, would do more dps or i can keep people at 100% with healing, if they aren't complete dumb players, not even having to rezz them (yeah a lot of druids fail this). So if you can play holo and necro right now, both at 90-95% what would you play? If you now say necro, I don't want to ever have you in my group, because that sounds like: I don't care, I just do what I want, I'm not playing for the group. I got like 4 or 5 classes equipped for raids. And there's not many bosses where I play necro. Because even if I can play other classes only at 90% while I play necro at 99 or 100%, I do more damage with other classes, than with necro. Which leads me to play other classes, because I don't want to get permanently carried by other people's dps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigur.9453 Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > @"Farkon.2170" said: > > > > > > @"Dace.8173" said: > > > > > > > @"Zero.3871" said: > > > > > > > Even when i personally never do PvE (so i cannot speak from my personal experience), i see that there is obviously a Problem with necro in gw2. i also dont understand why People prefer to wait 5 more minutes for Special classes than needing 2 more min with necro in Team. of Course it is stupid, but finally this Situation is real and anet created that by mishandling the necromancer FOR YEARS. Maybe necro could easily do that stuff but anet made community toxic AGAINST necros and **should take responsibility** for this and make the game fun for necro mains again because games should be fun and not frustrating. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > maybe at the very beginning of the game the current performance of necros would be enough, but after all the years of necro underperformance in pve we have that situation (and i really feel with OP, because his screenshoots are real and frustrating). atm, after years of mishandling the Situation there is just 1 solution left, bringing necro exactly in line with others. > > > > > > > > > > > > Arena Net did not make people toxic against Necromancers. That's just silly and a statement you can't support. The situation is not as simplistic as you paint it and ignores far too many important factors. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Indirectly they did. Indirectly they can prevent people from being toxic to Necromancers by giving them a feasible role in which they can contribute to, whether it's DPS, Support, or another viable role. > > > > > With a role then players will have a need for them instead of the opposite. > > > > > Also, there's a lot of assumptions being flung around and I found it amusing when you got mad at my quotes. > > > > > Regardless, the fact of the matter is Necros are underperforming and unfriendly to newer players due to never being updated and their innate limitations as well, we can argue the semantics until we're throwing mud around like monkeys, but it doesn't change that fact. > > > > > > > > But there are already viable dps an support options. They are even meta on some bosses. I think we don't need to talk about wvw. And they are quite the opposite of unfriendly to new players which imo is the main reason of the "necro hate". Regarding viability necros are in line with other professions. > > > > > > Wait. We have 2 bosses where scourge is meta. > > > > > > Soulless horror, but you only take one scourge there, to epi the golems and wurms > > > > > > And sabetha to kite and kill adds. > > > > > > Regarding viability necro is definetly not in line with other professions. > > > > > > No DPS spec that can compete with the other classes > > > No support spec that is good outside of one to carry complete idiots (and then they might still not do enough damage) > > > > > > The big issue with necromancer: anet has to make everything about booncorrupt and area damage, which is just not needed or good for engame pve. > > > > > > Unless they bring a boss, that constantly applies boons to corrupt into bleed/torment/confusion/burning > > > And also make the boss an addboss that is just killing 5billion adds in fast time (power classes might be better for this though) > > > > Beeing meta is not nessasary to get into pug groups. You sound like an elitist. Ironicly this thread only exists because off people with your mindset. > > I'm not an elitist. By far not. I just wanna be effective for my group, whatever group I play in. If it's in my static or in pugs. > > But if I put the same amount of work into another class, that I put work into necro, every other class id play, would do more dps > That's not correct, at least not on every boss. > or i can keep people at 100% with healing, if they aren't complete dumb players, not even having to rezz them (yeah a lot of druids fail this). > Necro is in line with other heal supports, your point is you have different choices? Sounds good to me. > So if you can play holo and necro right now, both at 90-95% what would you play? > If you now say necro, I don't want to ever have you in my group, because that sounds like: I don't care, I just do what I want, I'm not playing for the group. > Since it's about pugs. If you do 90%+ dps it does not matter on which class, you will be top dps most of the times. And yes I actually play to have fun,so I will actually play the class I want to. In the static it depends, mostly it even matters less except you go for more advanced tactics. thats sounds pretty elitist to me btw. > I got like 4 or 5 classes equipped for raids. And there's not many bosses where I play necro. Because even if I can play other classes only at 90% while I play necro at 99 or 100%, I do more damage with other classes, than with necro. Which leads me to play other classes, because I don't want to get permanently carried by other people's dps. I have one power and one condi char for every class, I like to play around. While I do more dps on some classes, it really does not matter. if you do 99% you are not getting carried. I'm used to doing low man fullclears/wings.... 3k+++ dps difference when you go with a full squad does not matter. 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Nimon.7840 Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 > @"sigur.9453" said: > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > > > > @"Farkon.2170" said: > > > > > > > @"Dace.8173" said: > > > > > > > > @"Zero.3871" said: > > > > > > > > Even when i personally never do PvE (so i cannot speak from my personal experience), i see that there is obviously a Problem with necro in gw2. i also dont understand why People prefer to wait 5 more minutes for Special classes than needing 2 more min with necro in Team. of Course it is stupid, but finally this Situation is real and anet created that by mishandling the necromancer FOR YEARS. Maybe necro could easily do that stuff but anet made community toxic AGAINST necros and **should take responsibility** for this and make the game fun for necro mains again because games should be fun and not frustrating. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > maybe at the very beginning of the game the current performance of necros would be enough, but after all the years of necro underperformance in pve we have that situation (and i really feel with OP, because his screenshoots are real and frustrating). atm, after years of mishandling the Situation there is just 1 solution left, bringing necro exactly in line with others. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Arena Net did not make people toxic against Necromancers. That's just silly and a statement you can't support. The situation is not as simplistic as you paint it and ignores far too many important factors. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Indirectly they did. Indirectly they can prevent people from being toxic to Necromancers by giving them a feasible role in which they can contribute to, whether it's DPS, Support, or another viable role. > > > > > > With a role then players will have a need for them instead of the opposite. > > > > > > Also, there's a lot of assumptions being flung around and I found it amusing when you got mad at my quotes. > > > > > > Regardless, the fact of the matter is Necros are underperforming and unfriendly to newer players due to never being updated and their innate limitations as well, we can argue the semantics until we're throwing mud around like monkeys, but it doesn't change that fact. > > > > > > > > > > But there are already viable dps an support options. They are even meta on some bosses. I think we don't need to talk about wvw. And they are quite the opposite of unfriendly to new players which imo is the main reason of the "necro hate". Regarding viability necros are in line with other professions. > > > > > > > > Wait. We have 2 bosses where scourge is meta. > > > > > > > > Soulless horror, but you only take one scourge there, to epi the golems and wurms > > > > > > > > And sabetha to kite and kill adds. > > > > > > > > Regarding viability necro is definetly not in line with other professions. > > > > > > > > No DPS spec that can compete with the other classes > > > > No support spec that is good outside of one to carry complete idiots (and then they might still not do enough damage) > > > > > > > > The big issue with necromancer: anet has to make everything about booncorrupt and area damage, which is just not needed or good for engame pve. > > > > > > > > Unless they bring a boss, that constantly applies boons to corrupt into bleed/torment/confusion/burning > > > > And also make the boss an addboss that is just killing 5billion adds in fast time (power classes might be better for this though) > > > > > > Beeing meta is not nessasary to get into pug groups. You sound like an elitist. Ironicly this thread only exists because off people with your mindset. > > > > I'm not an elitist. By far not. I just wanna be effective for my group, whatever group I play in. If it's in my static or in pugs. > > > > But if I put the same amount of work into another class, that I put work into necro, every other class id play, would do more dps > > > > That's not correct, at least not on every boss. > > > or i can keep people at 100% with healing, if they aren't complete dumb players, not even having to rezz them (yeah a lot of druids fail this). > > > > Necro is in line with other heal supports, your point is you have different choices? Sounds good to me. > > > So if you can play holo and necro right now, both at 90-95% what would you play? > > If you now say necro, I don't want to ever have you in my group, because that sounds like: I don't care, I just do what I want, I'm not playing for the group. > > > > Since it's about pugs. If you do 90%+ dps it does not matter on which class, you will be top dps most of the times. And yes I actually play to have fun,so I will actually play the class I want to. In the static it depends, mostly it even matters less except you go for more advanced tactics. thats sounds pretty elitist to me btw. > > > I got like 4 or 5 classes equipped for raids. And there's not many bosses where I play necro. Because even if I can play other classes only at 90% while I play necro at 99 or 100%, I do more damage with other classes, than with necro. Which leads me to play other classes, because I don't want to get permanently carried by other people's dps. > > I have one power and one condi char for every class, I like to play around. While I do more dps on some classes, it really does not matter. if you do 99% you are not getting carried. I'm used to doing low man fullclears/wings.... 3k+++ dps difference when you go with a full squad does not matter. > > As long as necro isn't on par golem DPS wise. People will always look down on necro. That's just how it is. 3k more pve-dps wouldn't hurt anywhere. Anet just has to work more with the skill split. I mean, they already did it for scourge (icd on dhuumfire) Why can't they make it so necro does 33k DPS as well? Necro is the only class, that doesn't have a benchmark in the 32-33k range. Or just make the bloodversion do 30k (it's at 27-28 right now I believe), cause with VP it could get as well to 32-33k DPS. It's just a way too selfish class, that anet always is afraid to give good DPS, cause it might end up too good in pvp-modes (even though it wouldn't matter, weaknesses will stay, and if you don't know, the weaknesses of a necro, you deserve to die). Or design more bosses with large trash mobs, or with a lot boons to corrupt. Then you could leave necro as it is. 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