thank god we have player that allow necromancer in end game content

[sigur.9453]

> @"DragonFury.6243" said:

 

> i know you ll say these words so i did reach out to other necros and they accepted to share some images so see if it VERY specific scenario or thread does NOT represent the experience of all necro players

 

thats a blatant lie.

i think @"Sublimatio.6981" postet these pics some while ago. not sure if on reddit or on the forum.

 

 

[DragonFury.6243]

> @"sigur.9453" said:

 

we both a necro main in the same bout and many others

[sigur.9453]

> @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > @"sigur.9453" said:

> >

> >

> > mhm, must be hacks.

> > one for disguising as another class, and one for increasing the dps

>

> i just saw that so its YouTube after all

> and they know that he is teapot LMAO

> and what a nice evidence to show that reaper can join a training group

> i did say to teapot many times before the release of W6 if you truly support necro how about you take your necro to your world first clear for W6 and he ignore that what can you say about Anet partner

> do you want to see teapot say the truth see this at 1:22:30

> "at the end of the day a necro cant compete with raw dps output of these power classes at vale guardian all its good at is during the split phases "

> and what a nice video necro only been used for epi bouncing which was nerfed and only effective in limited times

> and anet consider epi bounce as an exploit they tried to destroy it last balance patch but ended up just nerfing epi by 50% (bounce by 75%)

>

>

 

epi WAS already nerfed when that video took place. facts are a bummer.

[sigur.9453]

> @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > @"sigur.9453" said:

>

> we both a necro main in the same bout and many others

 

you lied, shame on you.

[DragonFury.6243]

> @"sigur.9453" said:

> > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > > @"sigur.9453" said:

> >

> > we both a necro main in the same bout and many others

>

> you lied, shame on you.

 

shame on you for thinking that i am lying and what a nice respond to a undeniable evidence in image form

[sigur.9453]

> @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > @"sigur.9453" said:

> > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > > > @"sigur.9453" said:

> > >

> > > we both a necro main in the same bout and many others

> >

> > you lied, shame on you.

>

> shame on you for thinking that i am lying and what a nice respond to a undeniable evidence in image form

 

you lied, very blatently and for "the whole world to see" , to "proof" you statments. its disgusting.

[DragonFury.6243]

> @"sigur.9453" said:

 

same as obtena you try to make it all about me

its profession/necromancer forum and its not player/dragonfury forums

i bet you see this content in these images as a lie nice argument

[Swamurabi.7890]

I wonder what this thread would look like if you took out all the "non constructive" criticisms and whose posts would be deleted.

[Dace.8173]

> @"Axl.8924" said:

> If they can fix thief dps and a new elite spec can have viable dps, shouldn't it be possible to create a new elite spec that is on par with every other spec?

>

>

 

I'd say yes and no. An Elite is only as good as the Core it's built on. So many of the persistent problems that plague Necromancer will be present in any future Elite, i.e. DPS output having to be balanced against Shroud and the "sustain" it offers. Thief is, overall sadly, a stronger profession (one that I feel deforms the game in many ways but that's a different topic for another day). It is also the case that not all problems are equal and thus while it is frustrating to see another faction get a fix that it needs it does not always translate into another faction in that same game as being able to receive a similar fix. As I've said in other threads, it is often the case that if a problem has persisted for a number of years despite attempts to resolve it then it is more than likely that the issue rests somewhere in the core design of that faction. I've mentioned a number of times that core design problems are difficult to address due to the fact that not everyone agrees that there is an actual problem. Some people are happy with Necromancer's DPS level. Some people have no problem making that work. Some people aren't forced to deal with PUG elitism. Thus some people will not approve of changes to core mechanics that they don't see as problematic. Additionally, contrary to people's wild speculation, ANet doesn't have it out for any faction and wants all of them to thrive. Not being able to get there isn't a question of a lack of will to see Necromancer succeed or ineptitude to fix it but a mixture of complicated and conflicting player desires and expectations.

 

Now, I've said all that because it sets up the yes and no nature of my answer. They will try to get a future Elite to address these issues. So, on the one hand, yes, it is possible. But on the other hand, they are confined with the basics of Necromancer's core design. They'll always be constrained by the Shroud mechanic and have to work within it to some extent. Necromancer's sustainability is tied to the Shroud mechanic so that can always be a limitation on how far they are able to take the DPS aspect of it all without specifically making new sustainability mechanics to compensate for any changes made to Shroud. That interplay will always be there and it is a limitation that will have to be worked around.

 

However, I feel hopeful that they could get there. Scourge does show that it is possible to make the kind of radical design changes needed to get Necromancer at a level that will make some players happy. The entire Elite concept allows them to modify the profession in ways that allow them to keep people who love it as is happy while still exploring fixes to make other people happy. Even Reaper moved in that direction some. I know a lot of folks hate on it because it is not the death-dealing machine they wish it was, or the PvP/WvW duelist folks wish it was, but it isn't bad and there are certainly weaker HoT Elites in the game (Scrapper and Tempest, I'm looking your way). As they continue to experiment with Elites and learn what they can change and modify they are likely to get closer and closer to delivering something that gets Necromancer to where people feels it should be.

 

Whether that will be enough for them to be able to PUG end game content is a different matter entirely. Elitist attitudes don't always change to reflect the mechanical reality (with the exception of when something is clearly OP and/or broken). If they did then Necromancers wouldn't be kicked from groups now as they are fully capable of doing the material in question. There really isn't anything that Arena Net can do that will force PUGs to accept Necromancers. This is why the game has organized guilds.

 

 

[Dace.8173]

> @"sigur.9453" said:

> > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

>

> > i know you ll say these words so i did reach out to other necros and they accepted to share some images so see if it VERY specific scenario or thread does NOT represent the experience of all necro players

>

> thats a blatant lie.

> i think @"Sublimatio.6981" postet these pics some while ago. not sure if on reddit or on the forum.

>

>

 

Why am I not surprised that a blatant lie was said in this thread. I do declare ....

[Kas.3509]

The problem is its not that necros are bad, its players that are stupid. I never kick ppl based on profession, just on their performance.

I'd also never kick someone for low dps if we can complete anyway. Who cares about 30 seconds more or less lol.

 

The truth is only BAD players pick classes like that, because if players are not dying and know mechanics any raid can be done with any dpses, even if its 6 necromancers, so...

The people who pick classes so much are players who are not able to complete without top dps because they make many mistakes on the way. Thats too bad.

 

[Zero.3871]

> @"Kas.3509" said:

> The problem is its not that necros are bad, its players that are stupid. I never kick ppl based on profession, just on their performance.

> I'd also never kick someone for low dps if we can complete anyway. Who cares about 30 seconds more or less lol.

>

> The truth is only BAD players pick classes like that, because if players are not dying and know mechanics any raid can be done with any dpses, even if its 6 necromancers, so...

> The people who pick classes so much are players who are not able to complete without top dps because they make many mistakes on the way. Thats too bad.

>

 

Even when i personally never do PvE (so i cannot speak from my personal experience), i see that there is obviously a Problem with necro in gw2. i also dont understand why People prefer to wait 5 more minutes for Special classes than needing 2 more min with necro in Team. of Course it is stupid, but finally this Situation is real and anet created that by mishandling the necromancer FOR YEARS. Maybe necro could easily do that stuff but anet made community toxic AGAINST necros and **should take responsibility** for this and make the game fun for necro mains again because games should be fun and not frustrating.

 

maybe at the very beginning of the game the current performance of necros would be enough, but after all the years of necro underperformance in pve we have that situation (and i really feel with OP, because his screenshoots are real and frustrating). atm, after years of mishandling the Situation there is just 1 solution left, bringing necro exactly in line with others.

[Swamurabi.7890]

> @"DragonFury.6243" said:

 

> 

 

Just curious, did you go on this raid and what were the results?

 

[DragonFury.6243]

> @"Swamurabi.7890" said:

> > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

>

> > 

>

> Just curious, did you go on this raid and what were the results?

>

 

this picture is not mine it is from other necro so i dont know the answer

[DragonFury.6243]

> @"Dace.8173" said:

> > @"sigur.9453" said:

> > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> >

> > > i know you ll say these words so i did reach out to other necros and they accepted to share some images so see if it VERY specific scenario or thread does NOT represent the experience of all necro players

> >

> > thats a blatant lie.

> > i think @"Sublimatio.6981" postet these pics some while ago. not sure if on reddit or on the forum.

> >

> >

>

> Why am I not surprised that a blatant lie was said in this thread. I do declare ....

 

can someone explain where and when i did this "blatant lie"

i never claimed that those pictures are mine

i did say they are from other necro and i did blank the name because i did promise so

but since sigur recognize the picture yea it fact it was from him

and i did reach out to him and take his permission to share these pictures

again what lie ??

[sigur.9453]

> @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > @"Dace.8173" said:

> > > @"sigur.9453" said:

> > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > >

> > > > i know you ll say these words so i did reach out to other necros and they accepted to share some images so see if it VERY specific scenario or thread does NOT represent the experience of all necro players

> > >

> > > thats a blatant lie.

> > > i think @"Sublimatio.6981" postet these pics some while ago. not sure if on reddit or on the forum.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Why am I not surprised that a blatant lie was said in this thread. I do declare ....

>

> can someone explain where and when i did this "blatant lie"

> i never claimed that those pictures are mine

> i did say they are from other necro and i did blank the name because i did promise so

> but sense sigur recognize the picture yea it fact it was from him

> and i did reach out to him and take his permission to share these pictures

> again what lie ??

 

you wrote, quote : "i know you ll say these words so i did reach out to other necros and they accepted to share some images so see if it VERY specific scenario or thread does NOT represent the experience of all necro players."

 

while it may be true, that the original poster of these images acceptet to share those pictures (there is an actual interessting 8 month old reddit thread with those images)

you lied by implying that "a lot of others" (or in fact you mentioned "all") sent you their horrible expieriences, to strenghen you statment that NO NECRO is allowed in good groups and to further blow up the problem. its a very manipulitive lie. a for afford though, if you actually have contacted the "owner" of those images.

[Swamurabi.7890]

Sounds like we need to start two new threads.

 

1. Necros: Post your raid discrimination chat

2. Necros: Post your teams raid DPS

[Axl.8924]

> @"sigur.9453" said:

> > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > > @"Dace.8173" said:

> > > > @"sigur.9453" said:

> > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > > >

> > > > > i know you ll say these words so i did reach out to other necros and they accepted to share some images so see if it VERY specific scenario or thread does NOT represent the experience of all necro players

> > > >

> > > > thats a blatant lie.

> > > > i think @"Sublimatio.6981" postet these pics some while ago. not sure if on reddit or on the forum.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Why am I not surprised that a blatant lie was said in this thread. I do declare ....

> >

> > can someone explain where and when i did this "blatant lie"

> > i never claimed that those pictures are mine

> > i did say they are from other necro and i did blank the name because i did promise so

> > but sense sigur recognize the picture yea it fact it was from him

> > and i did reach out to him and take his permission to share these pictures

> > again what lie ??

>

> you wrote, quote : "i know you ll say these words so i did reach out to other necros and they accepted to share some images so see if it VERY specific scenario or thread does NOT represent the experience of all necro players."

>

> while it may be true, that the original poster of these images acceptet to share those pictures (there is an actual interessting 8 month old reddit thread with those images)

> you lied by implying that "a lot of others" (or in fact you mentioned "all") sent you their horrible expieriences, to strenghen you statment that NO NECRO is allowed in good groups and to further blow up the problem. its a very manipulitive lie. a for afford though, if you actually have contacted the "owner" of those images.

 

I had a talk with him, and furthermore I uncovered the lie by talking to the real sublimatio.The person told met he previous person changed their name and this one was someone who didn't even play a necromancer.

 

Further to that, I talked this morning with dragonfury and he told me he found these photos.I even asked him:Why don't you just start your own raid? he actually said to me:why should I have to start my own raid? I said don't get angry with me, im just trying to help.

 

While he had a friendly talk, I do think some of what he said while true, I think is a bit exaggerated.

 

For instance:I have done some fractals of tier 4 not CMS or anything, but some regulars, and I was able to do fine.

 

I will admit to never joining pug raids, but I have done open training raids on the site.

 

[DragonFury.6243]

> @"sigur.9453" said:

> > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > > @"Dace.8173" said:

> > > > @"sigur.9453" said:

> > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > > >

> > > > > i know you ll say these words so i did reach out to other necros and they accepted to share some images so see if it VERY specific scenario or thread does NOT represent the experience of all necro players

> > > >

> > > > thats a blatant lie.

> > > > i think @"Sublimatio.6981" postet these pics some while ago. not sure if on reddit or on the forum.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Why am I not surprised that a blatant lie was said in this thread. I do declare ....

> >

> > can someone explain where and when i did this "blatant lie"

> > i never claimed that those pictures are mine

> > i did say they are from other necro and i did blank the name because i did promise so

> > but sense sigur recognize the picture yea it fact it was from him

> > and i did reach out to him and take his permission to share these pictures

> > again what lie ??

>

>

> if you actually have contacted the "owner" of those images.

 

really -_-

i did contacted him and here is his response


 

 

 

[Mini Crinny.6190]

Yeah I can blank out a name and use my alt to make it look like it's someone else

[DragonFury.6243]

> @"Axl.8924" said:

> > @"sigur.9453" said:

> > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > > > @"Dace.8173" said:

> > > > > @"sigur.9453" said:

> > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > > > >

> > > > > > i know you ll say these words so i did reach out to other necros and they accepted to share some images so see if it VERY specific scenario or thread does NOT represent the experience of all necro players

> > > > >

> > > > > thats a blatant lie.

> > > > > i think @"Sublimatio.6981" postet these pics some while ago. not sure if on reddit or on the forum.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Why am I not surprised that a blatant lie was said in this thread. I do declare ....

> > >

> > > can someone explain where and when i did this "blatant lie"

> > > i never claimed that those pictures are mine

> > > i did say they are from other necro and i did blank the name because i did promise so

> > > but sense sigur recognize the picture yea it fact it was from him

> > > and i did reach out to him and take his permission to share these pictures

> > > again what lie ??

> >

> > you wrote, quote : "i know you ll say these words so i did reach out to other necros and they accepted to share some images so see if it VERY specific scenario or thread does NOT represent the experience of all necro players."

> >

> > while it may be true, that the original poster of these images acceptet to share those pictures (there is an actual interessting 8 month old reddit thread with those images)

> > you lied by implying that "a lot of others" (or in fact you mentioned "all") sent you their horrible expieriences, to strenghen you statment that NO NECRO is allowed in good groups and to further blow up the problem. its a very manipulitive lie. a for afford though, if you actually have contacted the "owner" of those images.

>

> I had a talk with him, and furthermore I uncovered the lie by talking to the real sublimatio.The person told met he previous person changed their name and this one was someone who didn't even play a necromancer.

what do you mean by this

and i dont play necro ????

> Further to that, I talked this morning with dragonfury and he told me he found these photos.I even asked him:Why don't you just start your own raid? he actually said to me:why should I have to start my own raid? I said don't get angry with me, im just trying to help.

i didnt told you i found these image i told its not mine but its from another necro on reddit

you told me Why don't you just start your own raid and i gave you the standard answer why a necro should lead their own group in order to get into raid that a fix to a problem that shouldn't exists i dont know really how you perceived from that i was mad at you and i told you that i know you want to help and i am not mad


 

 

 

[DragonFury.6243]

> @"Mini Crinny.6190" said:

> Yeah I can blank out a name and use my alt to make it look like it's someone else

 

i did promise to blank name and i want keep that promise

send me your gmail and i ll send the unblanked picture to you if you dont share it without permission

 

[Obtena.7952]

> @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > Well, I didn't want to go there knowing the level of argument it would cause with the OP. But yes, I have had my share of PUG's and my experience is also similar to yours; I think I have been kicked a total of once and it's because I didn't understand. I learned from that, hasn't happened again. Of course, I can't wait for the OP to come call me a liar or pathetic for not proving I joined a PUG with my necro with extensive video coverage, but that's just par for the course at this point.

> >

> > I don't disagree that necros aren't niche or too low DPS. The discussion here is how to deal with that if you want to team with the class. Maybe I'm hyper realistic but I just don't see Anet coming in and buffing necro with what it needs to make it desirable in PUG teams, considering the history of the game.

>

> do you remember thief's they were our low dps and unwanted buddies for years and now anet buffed them they are no. 1 dps most wanted on all bosses

> so the history of the game is not on your side if anet saw a problem they will act to fix it ( although it may take time ) but if you stand here and say that if a necro get kick from the get go its a L2p issue that wont help any one .

> what you did it to adapt to a problem that shouldn't exist same for the advice that i can lead my own group that is just adapting to a problem that shouldn't exist

> no profession should be discriminated against for any reason .

 

I think you need to you need to give your head a shake at this point. This EXACT example is precisely what I'm talk about when I say that game history is not in your favour if you compare complain and wait vs. learning to play as the options to team with necro.

 

Are you **honestly** trying to tell me that a semi-random buff in the timeframe of many years that makes a class desirable in PUG teams is a historical game example that FAVOURS necros? If you really think that's favourable to necro players wanting to join pugs vs. learning to play, then you actually don't have anything to complain about here, because you **support** the idea that you have to wait many years before getting a buff that makes necro desirable in PUG team. You **acknowledge** the need for many random changes to the class and many years to pass before being desirable class in PUG teams. This is what you are saying ... that the random buff/complain strategy is BETTER than ...

 

... taking a few weeks and learning to team.

 

As I've already said, that's your choice and it's open to everyone.

 

 

[Dace.8173]

> @"Zero.3871" said:

> Even when i personally never do PvE (so i cannot speak from my personal experience), i see that there is obviously a Problem with necro in gw2. i also dont understand why People prefer to wait 5 more minutes for Special classes than needing 2 more min with necro in Team. of Course it is stupid, but finally this Situation is real and anet created that by mishandling the necromancer FOR YEARS. Maybe necro could easily do that stuff but anet made community toxic AGAINST necros and **should take responsibility** for this and make the game fun for necro mains again because games should be fun and not frustrating.

>

> maybe at the very beginning of the game the current performance of necros would be enough, but after all the years of necro underperformance in pve we have that situation (and i really feel with OP, because his screenshoots are real and frustrating). atm, after years of mishandling the Situation there is just 1 solution left, bringing necro exactly in line with others.

 

Arena Net did not make people toxic against Necromancers. That's just silly and a statement you can't support. The situation is not as simplistic as you paint it and ignores far too many important factors.

 

 

[Farkon.2170]

> @"Dace.8173" said:

> > @"Zero.3871" said:

> > Even when i personally never do PvE (so i cannot speak from my personal experience), i see that there is obviously a Problem with necro in gw2. i also dont understand why People prefer to wait 5 more minutes for Special classes than needing 2 more min with necro in Team. of Course it is stupid, but finally this Situation is real and anet created that by mishandling the necromancer FOR YEARS. Maybe necro could easily do that stuff but anet made community toxic AGAINST necros and **should take responsibility** for this and make the game fun for necro mains again because games should be fun and not frustrating.

> >

> > maybe at the very beginning of the game the current performance of necros would be enough, but after all the years of necro underperformance in pve we have that situation (and i really feel with OP, because his screenshoots are real and frustrating). atm, after years of mishandling the Situation there is just 1 solution left, bringing necro exactly in line with others.

>

> Arena Net did not make people toxic against Necromancers. That's just silly and a statement you can't support. The situation is not as simplistic as you paint it and ignores far too many important factors.

>

>

 

Indirectly they did. Indirectly they can prevent people from being toxic to Necromancers by giving them a feasible role in which they can contribute to, whether it's DPS, Support, or another viable role.

With a role then players will have a need for them instead of the opposite.

Also, there's a lot of assumptions being flung around and I found it amusing when you got mad at my quotes.

Regardless, the fact of the matter is Necros are underperforming and unfriendly to newer players due to never being updated and their innate limitations as well, we can argue the semantics until we're throwing mud around like monkeys, but it doesn't change that fact.