Aaron Ansari.1604 Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said: > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > And yet one dragon can't corrupt another's minions? > > > > Nowhere is this ever stated, anywhere, in the game. It is **pure player speculation** and nothing more. In fact, we have three prime examples of cases where an individual is influenced by multiple Elder Dragons' corruptive energies - Subject Alpha, Kudu's Monster, and Subject Beta. > > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > In terms of Mordremoth not corrupting them, if he brainwashed them and/or they answered his call - how is it not corruption? > > > > Dragon corruption is a magical effect that permanently transforms an individual physically as well as enslaves their will. What Mordremoth did was bombard sylvari with thoughts designed to be interpreted as their own so that they would willingly turn to serve Mordremoth. > > > > The primary difference is the existence of free will - sylvari, and Mordrem Guard, have free will. Mordrem do not. > > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > I believe it’s because they are already dragon minions. They can be brainwashed, but they can’t be corrupted in a traditional sense because technically there isn’t anything to corrupt. Much like if Zhaitan were to call out to the unchained, they wouldn’t be corrupted. > > > > > > Yes, but they're Mordremoths minions, so in a way I suppose it makes sense if they're already corrupted and he just calls out to them. > > > > Elder Dragons [can corrupt their own purified minions.](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Legendary_Corrupted_Facet) > > > > The facets were creations of Glint - effectively purified branded made from the environment, like Crystal Guardians and Crystal Spiders - and this one was corrupted by the Brand, even drops branded champion loot bags, just like Glint's lair is being slowly branded. > > > > They seem more resilient to corruption, but not immune. > > > > In theory, Malyck and his tree would be fully succceptable to being corrupted by Mordremoth. It's stated several times that what protects sylvari from Elder Dragon corruption is the Dream - or more specifically "the Pale Tree's protection" - [even after the reveal of their origin:](https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/points-of-interest-episode-18-summary/) > > > > > only a combination of immense willpower and the protection of the Pale Tree can prevent Mordremoth from taking control. > > > > The method Mordremoth uses, ironically, is the very same protection against corruption: > > > > > Sylvari receive calls to action in the form of the Wyld Hunt—or the Dark Hunt, for Nightmare Courtiers—and these compulsions act as an access point for Mordremoth’s influence. > > > > and > > > > > Pact Commander: Then we destroy the root: Mordremoth's mind. Its strongest attacks come from its mind, _from the Dream_. That's our target. > > > Canach: Sound strategy, Commander. Turn the tables and _attack the dragon the same way it's been attacking us_? Brilliant. > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hearts_and_Minds#Entering_the_lair > > > > The Dream is what prevents corruption, not their existence as dragon minions. > > The 3 examples you have, are where the Asura are involved and could be due to their meddling. Name *one* example, where one dragon minion was naturally taken over by another dragon itself. That's the trouble- name one example where minions of two separate dragons have come into contact naturally. The reason we keep going back to the Inquest experiments is that outside of them we have a sample size of zero. (One, if you count a hastily put-together HoT preview event.) Needless to say, that is _not_ conclusive data. What the data does show, though, is that there are circumstances where a single entity can hold the energies of multiple dragons- both in the Inquest labs, and more widely once the Elder Dragons themselves started capitalizing on the powers of slain rivals. Whether those circumstances are broad enough that we would normally see it occur with the energies of two active, rival dragons is unclear, whether those circumstances are even possible when both sets of corruption have the will of their dragon behind them is unknown, but what _is_ known is that dragon minions are not immune to other kinds of corruption, through the proof of our own eyes in CoE, and that the sylvari immunity* to corruption stems from the Pale Tree, through Word of Dev. *'Immunity' has never truly been the right word anyway, because the sylvari are affected by dragon corruption- it kills them outright. It might not sound as dramatic, but really, they should've been calling it an allergy all this time. : P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Its Nerfing Time.1495 Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 > @"Aaron Ansari.1604" said: > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said: > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > And yet one dragon can't corrupt another's minions? > > > > > > Nowhere is this ever stated, anywhere, in the game. It is **pure player speculation** and nothing more. In fact, we have three prime examples of cases where an individual is influenced by multiple Elder Dragons' corruptive energies - Subject Alpha, Kudu's Monster, and Subject Beta. > > > > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > In terms of Mordremoth not corrupting them, if he brainwashed them and/or they answered his call - how is it not corruption? > > > > > > Dragon corruption is a magical effect that permanently transforms an individual physically as well as enslaves their will. What Mordremoth did was bombard sylvari with thoughts designed to be interpreted as their own so that they would willingly turn to serve Mordremoth. > > > > > > The primary difference is the existence of free will - sylvari, and Mordrem Guard, have free will. Mordrem do not. > > > > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > I believe it’s because they are already dragon minions. They can be brainwashed, but they can’t be corrupted in a traditional sense because technically there isn’t anything to corrupt. Much like if Zhaitan were to call out to the unchained, they wouldn’t be corrupted. > > > > > > > > Yes, but they're Mordremoths minions, so in a way I suppose it makes sense if they're already corrupted and he just calls out to them. > > > > > > Elder Dragons [can corrupt their own purified minions.](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Legendary_Corrupted_Facet) > > > > > > The facets were creations of Glint - effectively purified branded made from the environment, like Crystal Guardians and Crystal Spiders - and this one was corrupted by the Brand, even drops branded champion loot bags, just like Glint's lair is being slowly branded. > > > > > > They seem more resilient to corruption, but not immune. > > > > > > In theory, Malyck and his tree would be fully succceptable to being corrupted by Mordremoth. It's stated several times that what protects sylvari from Elder Dragon corruption is the Dream - or more specifically "the Pale Tree's protection" - [even after the reveal of their origin:](https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/points-of-interest-episode-18-summary/) > > > > > > > only a combination of immense willpower and the protection of the Pale Tree can prevent Mordremoth from taking control. > > > > > > The method Mordremoth uses, ironically, is the very same protection against corruption: > > > > > > > Sylvari receive calls to action in the form of the Wyld Hunt—or the Dark Hunt, for Nightmare Courtiers—and these compulsions act as an access point for Mordremoth’s influence. > > > > > > and > > > > > > > Pact Commander: Then we destroy the root: Mordremoth's mind. Its strongest attacks come from its mind, _from the Dream_. That's our target. > > > > Canach: Sound strategy, Commander. Turn the tables and _attack the dragon the same way it's been attacking us_? Brilliant. > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hearts_and_Minds#Entering_the_lair > > > > > > The Dream is what prevents corruption, not their existence as dragon minions. > > > > The 3 examples you have, are where the Asura are involved and could be due to their meddling. Name *one* example, where one dragon minion was naturally taken over by another dragon itself. > > That's the trouble- name one example where minions of two separate dragons have come into contact naturally. The reason we keep going back to the Inquest experiments is that outside of them we have a sample size of zero. (One, if you count a hastily put-together HoT preview event.) Needless to say, that is _not_ conclusive data. > > What the data does show, though, is that there are circumstances where a single entity can hold the energies of multiple dragons- both in the Inquest labs, and more widely once the Elder Dragons themselves started capitalizing on the powers of slain rivals. Whether those circumstances are broad enough that we would normally see it occur with the energies of two active, rival dragons is unclear, whether those circumstances are even possible when both sets of corruption have the will of their dragon behind them is unknown, but what _is_ known is that dragon minions are not immune to other kinds of corruption, through the proof of our own eyes in CoE, and that the sylvari immunity* to corruption stems from the Pale Tree, through Word of Dev. > > *'Immunity' has never truly been the right word anyway, because the sylvari are affected by dragon corruption- it kills them outright. It might not sound as dramatic, but really, they should've been calling it an allergy all this time. : P Uh, nowhere has it been shown they're not immune to other corruption? They cannot be taken over by another dragon if their own dragon exists to empower and control them. Please cite one example where a minion from one dragon has taken over another, with both dragons alive. I'll wait Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Ansari.1604 Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > @"Aaron Ansari.1604" said: > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said: > > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > And yet one dragon can't corrupt another's minions? > > > > > > > > Nowhere is this ever stated, anywhere, in the game. It is **pure player speculation** and nothing more. In fact, we have three prime examples of cases where an individual is influenced by multiple Elder Dragons' corruptive energies - Subject Alpha, Kudu's Monster, and Subject Beta. > > > > > > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > In terms of Mordremoth not corrupting them, if he brainwashed them and/or they answered his call - how is it not corruption? > > > > > > > > Dragon corruption is a magical effect that permanently transforms an individual physically as well as enslaves their will. What Mordremoth did was bombard sylvari with thoughts designed to be interpreted as their own so that they would willingly turn to serve Mordremoth. > > > > > > > > The primary difference is the existence of free will - sylvari, and Mordrem Guard, have free will. Mordrem do not. > > > > > > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > I believe it’s because they are already dragon minions. They can be brainwashed, but they can’t be corrupted in a traditional sense because technically there isn’t anything to corrupt. Much like if Zhaitan were to call out to the unchained, they wouldn’t be corrupted. > > > > > > > > > > Yes, but they're Mordremoths minions, so in a way I suppose it makes sense if they're already corrupted and he just calls out to them. > > > > > > > > Elder Dragons [can corrupt their own purified minions.](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Legendary_Corrupted_Facet) > > > > > > > > The facets were creations of Glint - effectively purified branded made from the environment, like Crystal Guardians and Crystal Spiders - and this one was corrupted by the Brand, even drops branded champion loot bags, just like Glint's lair is being slowly branded. > > > > > > > > They seem more resilient to corruption, but not immune. > > > > > > > > In theory, Malyck and his tree would be fully succceptable to being corrupted by Mordremoth. It's stated several times that what protects sylvari from Elder Dragon corruption is the Dream - or more specifically "the Pale Tree's protection" - [even after the reveal of their origin:](https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/points-of-interest-episode-18-summary/) > > > > > > > > > only a combination of immense willpower and the protection of the Pale Tree can prevent Mordremoth from taking control. > > > > > > > > The method Mordremoth uses, ironically, is the very same protection against corruption: > > > > > > > > > Sylvari receive calls to action in the form of the Wyld Hunt—or the Dark Hunt, for Nightmare Courtiers—and these compulsions act as an access point for Mordremoth’s influence. > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > Pact Commander: Then we destroy the root: Mordremoth's mind. Its strongest attacks come from its mind, _from the Dream_. That's our target. > > > > > Canach: Sound strategy, Commander. Turn the tables and _attack the dragon the same way it's been attacking us_? Brilliant. > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hearts_and_Minds#Entering_the_lair > > > > > > > > The Dream is what prevents corruption, not their existence as dragon minions. > > > > > > The 3 examples you have, are where the Asura are involved and could be due to their meddling. Name *one* example, where one dragon minion was naturally taken over by another dragon itself. > > > > That's the trouble- name one example where minions of two separate dragons have come into contact naturally. The reason we keep going back to the Inquest experiments is that outside of them we have a sample size of zero. (One, if you count a hastily put-together HoT preview event.) Needless to say, that is _not_ conclusive data. > > > > What the data does show, though, is that there are circumstances where a single entity can hold the energies of multiple dragons- both in the Inquest labs, and more widely once the Elder Dragons themselves started capitalizing on the powers of slain rivals. Whether those circumstances are broad enough that we would normally see it occur with the energies of two active, rival dragons is unclear, whether those circumstances are even possible when both sets of corruption have the will of their dragon behind them is unknown, but what _is_ known is that dragon minions are not immune to other kinds of corruption, through the proof of our own eyes in CoE, and that the sylvari immunity* to corruption stems from the Pale Tree, through Word of Dev. > > > > *'Immunity' has never truly been the right word anyway, because the sylvari are affected by dragon corruption- it kills them outright. It might not sound as dramatic, but really, they should've been calling it an allergy all this time. : P > > Uh, nowhere has it been shown they're not immune to other corruption? They cannot be taken over by another dragon if their own dragon exists to empower and control them. Please cite one example where a minion from one dragon has taken over another, with both dragons alive. > > I'll wait Let me focus on that one bit then- where has a minion of one living dragon come into contact with a minion of a different living dragon? Or are you suggesting that we ought to have seen cross-corruption without any contact between minions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konig Des Todes.2086 Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > The 3 examples you have, are where the Asura are involved and could be due to their meddling. Name *one* example, where one dragon minion was naturally taken over by another dragon itself. This argument fundamentally requires the Inquest, who are akin to infants handling a gun, to be capable of doing more than the Elder Dragons, who are masters of their domain. Does that make any sense? Besides which, we see in CoE story the extent of how the Inquest create their dragon minions - it's literally nothing more than exposing individuals to the corruptive dragon energies that makes minions. In other words, what the Inquest do is purely replicating what the Elder Dragons do, and literally nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Its Nerfing Time.1495 Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said: > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > The 3 examples you have, are where the Asura are involved and could be due to their meddling. Name *one* example, where one dragon minion was naturally taken over by another dragon itself. > > This argument fundamentally requires the Inquest, who are akin to infants handling a gun, to be capable of doing more than the Elder Dragons, who are masters of their domain. Does that make any sense? > > Besides which, we see in CoE story the extent of how the Inquest create their dragon minions - it's literally nothing more than exposing individuals to the corruptive dragon energies that makes minions. > > In other words, what the Inquest do is purely replicating what the Elder Dragons do, and literally nothing more. And yet they've managed to do it? They've managed to combine the energies into one being with all 5?> @"Aaron Ansari.1604" said: > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > @"Aaron Ansari.1604" said: > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said: > > > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > > And yet one dragon can't corrupt another's minions? > > > > > > > > > > Nowhere is this ever stated, anywhere, in the game. It is **pure player speculation** and nothing more. In fact, we have three prime examples of cases where an individual is influenced by multiple Elder Dragons' corruptive energies - Subject Alpha, Kudu's Monster, and Subject Beta. > > > > > > > > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > > In terms of Mordremoth not corrupting them, if he brainwashed them and/or they answered his call - how is it not corruption? > > > > > > > > > > Dragon corruption is a magical effect that permanently transforms an individual physically as well as enslaves their will. What Mordremoth did was bombard sylvari with thoughts designed to be interpreted as their own so that they would willingly turn to serve Mordremoth. > > > > > > > > > > The primary difference is the existence of free will - sylvari, and Mordrem Guard, have free will. Mordrem do not. > > > > > > > > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > > I believe it’s because they are already dragon minions. They can be brainwashed, but they can’t be corrupted in a traditional sense because technically there isn’t anything to corrupt. Much like if Zhaitan were to call out to the unchained, they wouldn’t be corrupted. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, but they're Mordremoths minions, so in a way I suppose it makes sense if they're already corrupted and he just calls out to them. > > > > > > > > > > Elder Dragons [can corrupt their own purified minions.](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Legendary_Corrupted_Facet) > > > > > > > > > > The facets were creations of Glint - effectively purified branded made from the environment, like Crystal Guardians and Crystal Spiders - and this one was corrupted by the Brand, even drops branded champion loot bags, just like Glint's lair is being slowly branded. > > > > > > > > > > They seem more resilient to corruption, but not immune. > > > > > > > > > > In theory, Malyck and his tree would be fully succceptable to being corrupted by Mordremoth. It's stated several times that what protects sylvari from Elder Dragon corruption is the Dream - or more specifically "the Pale Tree's protection" - [even after the reveal of their origin:](https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/points-of-interest-episode-18-summary/) > > > > > > > > > > > only a combination of immense willpower and the protection of the Pale Tree can prevent Mordremoth from taking control. > > > > > > > > > > The method Mordremoth uses, ironically, is the very same protection against corruption: > > > > > > > > > > > Sylvari receive calls to action in the form of the Wyld Hunt—or the Dark Hunt, for Nightmare Courtiers—and these compulsions act as an access point for Mordremoth’s influence. > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > Pact Commander: Then we destroy the root: Mordremoth's mind. Its strongest attacks come from its mind, _from the Dream_. That's our target. > > > > > > Canach: Sound strategy, Commander. Turn the tables and _attack the dragon the same way it's been attacking us_? Brilliant. > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hearts_and_Minds#Entering_the_lair > > > > > > > > > > The Dream is what prevents corruption, not their existence as dragon minions. > > > > > > > > The 3 examples you have, are where the Asura are involved and could be due to their meddling. Name *one* example, where one dragon minion was naturally taken over by another dragon itself. > > > > > > That's the trouble- name one example where minions of two separate dragons have come into contact naturally. The reason we keep going back to the Inquest experiments is that outside of them we have a sample size of zero. (One, if you count a hastily put-together HoT preview event.) Needless to say, that is _not_ conclusive data. > > > > > > What the data does show, though, is that there are circumstances where a single entity can hold the energies of multiple dragons- both in the Inquest labs, and more widely once the Elder Dragons themselves started capitalizing on the powers of slain rivals. Whether those circumstances are broad enough that we would normally see it occur with the energies of two active, rival dragons is unclear, whether those circumstances are even possible when both sets of corruption have the will of their dragon behind them is unknown, but what _is_ known is that dragon minions are not immune to other kinds of corruption, through the proof of our own eyes in CoE, and that the sylvari immunity* to corruption stems from the Pale Tree, through Word of Dev. > > > > > > *'Immunity' has never truly been the right word anyway, because the sylvari are affected by dragon corruption- it kills them outright. It might not sound as dramatic, but really, they should've been calling it an allergy all this time. : P > > > > Uh, nowhere has it been shown they're not immune to other corruption? They cannot be taken over by another dragon if their own dragon exists to empower and control them. Please cite one example where a minion from one dragon has taken over another, with both dragons alive. > > > > I'll wait > > Let me focus on that one bit then- where has a minion of one living dragon come into contact with a minion of a different living dragon? Or are you suggesting that we ought to have seen cross-corruption without any contact between minions? You ignored my question, which pretty much answers it anyway. You don't have one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konig Des Todes.2086 Posted November 26, 2018 Share Posted November 26, 2018 > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > And yet they've managed to do it? They've managed to combine the energies into one being with all 5?> @"Aaron Ansari.1604" said: Yes, they managed to combine the energies of five Elder Dragons into one being, by simply exposing that one being to all four Elder Dragons' energies. In other words, the Inquest do nothing special. They in fact do **less** than what the Elder Dragons do. The same thing would happen if a branded wandered up to Primordus and got corrupted, then wandered up to Jormag and got corrupted, then wandered up to Mordremoth and got corrupted. > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > @Aaron Ansari.1604 said: > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > Uh, nowhere has it been shown they're not immune to other corruption? They cannot be taken over by another dragon if their own dragon exists to empower and control them. Please cite one example where a minion from one dragon has taken over another, with both dragons alive. > > > > > > I'll wait > > > > Let me focus on that one bit then- where has a minion of one living dragon come into contact with a minion of a different living dragon? Or are you suggesting that we ought to have seen cross-corruption without any contact between minions? > > You ignored my question, which pretty much answers it anyway. You don't have one He wasn't ignoring your question. He was answering your question with a question. His point is that "in the wild" there are zero instances of two different types of dragon minions interacting with each other, thus zero instances were a minion _could_ be corrupted by another, except in the Inquest labs. However, he was also implyi9ng that the lacking of evidence is not evidence of lacking - the lack of such scenarios of minion interaction (which would lead to multi-corrupted minions outside of labs) does not mean that multi-corrupted minions are impossible. There is zero reason to believe that Elder Dragons cannot do what the Inquest do by simply exposing people to the Elder Dragons' energies. Hell, one can argue that the Elder Dragons already make multi-corrupted minions in the wild as of Season 3. The Death-Touched Destroyers, Vine-Touched Destroyers, and the Death-Branded... branded are all minions that are corrupted utilizing multiple Elder Dragons' corruptive domains. The only difference is that there's only one Elder Dragon to control the minions' will (which is probably why they don't do what the Inquest have done with Subject Alpha, which proved to be uncontrollable and seemingly mentally unstable yet capable of commanding all five types of dragon minions in CoE). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perilisk.1874 Posted November 26, 2018 Share Posted November 26, 2018 > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said: > > @"perilisk.1874" said: > > Right -- it was outright stated for Tequatl, but he was a champion. We don't have any other concrete data on minions of dead dragons. Minions of living dragons, is a different matter, but the implication has been that their Dragon changed them, rather than that they changed themselves. > > Erm... > * https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Test_Subject > * https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Field_Test > * https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magic_Sucks > * https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Megadestroyer > * https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Concordia_Incident > * https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Champion_Imbued_Aberration_(branded) > * https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Champion_Imbued_Aberration_(destroyer) > * https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Champion_Imbued_Aberration_(icebrood) Right, but those are almost all cases of minions absorbing ambient magic, ley-line magic, etc., and becoming stronger but basically the same. I was talking about the changes that minions started showing with HoT and especially LS3, where icebrood and destroyers began developing death and plant abilities. Edit: That said, it is weird that Sylvari can't eat magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Its Nerfing Time.1495 Posted November 26, 2018 Share Posted November 26, 2018 > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said: > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > And yet they've managed to do it? They've managed to combine the energies into one being with all 5?> @"Aaron Ansari.1604" said: > > Yes, they managed to combine the energies of five Elder Dragons into one being, by simply exposing that one being to all four Elder Dragons' energies. > > In other words, the Inquest do nothing special. They in fact do **less** than what the Elder Dragons do. > > The same thing would happen if a branded wandered up to Primordus and got corrupted, then wandered up to Jormag and got corrupted, then wandered up to Mordremoth and got corrupted. > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > @Aaron Ansari.1604 said: > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > Uh, nowhere has it been shown they're not immune to other corruption? They cannot be taken over by another dragon if their own dragon exists to empower and control them. Please cite one example where a minion from one dragon has taken over another, with both dragons alive. > > > > > > > > I'll wait > > > > > > Let me focus on that one bit then- where has a minion of one living dragon come into contact with a minion of a different living dragon? Or are you suggesting that we ought to have seen cross-corruption without any contact between minions? > > > > You ignored my question, which pretty much answers it anyway. You don't have one > > He wasn't ignoring your question. He was answering your question with a question. > > His point is that "in the wild" there are zero instances of two different types of dragon minions interacting with each other, thus zero instances were a minion _could_ be corrupted by another, except in the Inquest labs. However, he was also implyi9ng that the lacking of evidence is not evidence of lacking - the lack of such scenarios of minion interaction (which would lead to multi-corrupted minions outside of labs) does not mean that multi-corrupted minions are impossible. > > There is zero reason to believe that Elder Dragons cannot do what the Inquest do by simply exposing people to the Elder Dragons' energies. > > Hell, one can argue that the Elder Dragons already make multi-corrupted minions in the wild as of Season 3. The Death-Touched Destroyers, Vine-Touched Destroyers, and the Death-Branded... branded are all minions that are corrupted utilizing multiple Elder Dragons' corruptive domains. The only difference is that there's only one Elder Dragon to control the minions' will (which is probably why they don't do what the Inquest have done with Subject Alpha, which proved to be uncontrollable and seemingly mentally unstable yet capable of commanding all five types of dragon minions in CoE). Multi corrupted controlled by one dragon controlling said energies. It's been shown that dragon energies at opposing ends cancel each other out (primordus/jormag for example), so unless the power was controlled by one, they would end each other yes? And yet the Inquest have managed to contain that. So they have actually done "more" than the Dragons normally could. And yes, he was ignoring the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Ansari.1604 Posted November 26, 2018 Share Posted November 26, 2018 > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > And yes, he was ignoring the point. I was? Your point was that we had not seen evidence, and therefore, we must assume it's impossible, was it not? I challenged that point on two grounds- that the only admissible evidence would be minions of one dragon autonomously corrupting minions of another, and that absence of evidence equates to evidence of absence- and I also did not concede that point, but I did not ignore it. If my previous reasons haven't been persuasive, though, let us instead expand the line of thinking you've presented (which, I hope you will agree, clearly precludes the possibility of ignoring it). You will find that you're unable to cite any case of a skritt, a grawl, or an ettin being corrupted by an Elder Dragon. Should we then conclude that they're unable to be corrupted? Similarly, you will not find any instances of cows or rabbits being corrupted. Have cows and rabbits miraculously held the secret to immunity all this time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teratus.2859 Posted November 26, 2018 Share Posted November 26, 2018 The Sylvari resisted Mordremoth and never succumb to his will thus they were not converted into the more powerful Mordrem forms. The term minion doesn't really apply to them, Yes they have a link to the Jungle Dragon but they were born and nurtured by the Pale Tree as individuals with free will. The Sylvari are not the same as Mordrem, Risen, Branded or Destroyers.. they are unique and none of them gained any dragon power from Mordremoth until they completely succumbed to his will so it makes sense that resisting the dragon also means they resisted his power as well which would have corrupted them. > @"Talonblaze.3175" said: > AND if we include Balthazar, even his magic spread to the others and he didn't even possess dragon magic. Actually he did, back in Living world 3 Balthazar absorbed a great deal of magic from Primordus and Jormag after we broke the machine he was using to channel their powers against one another. This could very well be one of the reasons why his magic was attracted to and absorbed by an unconscious Aurine before Kralkatorrik sucked the rest of it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted November 26, 2018 Share Posted November 26, 2018 > @"Teratus.2859" said: > The Sylvari resisted Mordremoth and never succumb to his will thus they were not converted into the more powerful Mordrem forms. > The term minion doesn't really apply to them, Yes they have a link to the Jungle Dragon but they were born and nurtured by the Pale Tree as individuals with free will. > The Sylvari are not the same as Mordrem, Risen, Branded or Destroyers.. they are unique and none of them gained any dragon power from Mordremoth until they completely succumbed to his will so it makes sense that resisting the dragon also means they resisted his power as well which would have corrupted them. > > > @"Talonblaze.3175" said: > > AND if we include Balthazar, even his magic spread to the others and he didn't even possess dragon magic. > > Actually he did, back in Living world 3 Balthazar absorbed a great deal of magic from Primordus and Jormag after we broke the machine he was using to channel their powers against one another. > This could very well be one of the reasons why his magic was attracted to and absorbed by an unconscious Aurine before Kralkatorrik sucked the rest of it up. The Bloodstone that Balthazar absorbed also contained Zhaitan and Mordremoth magic as well as stated in the white mantle journals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teratus.2859 Posted November 26, 2018 Share Posted November 26, 2018 > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > The Sylvari resisted Mordremoth and never succumb to his will thus they were not converted into the more powerful Mordrem forms. > > The term minion doesn't really apply to them, Yes they have a link to the Jungle Dragon but they were born and nurtured by the Pale Tree as individuals with free will. > > The Sylvari are not the same as Mordrem, Risen, Branded or Destroyers.. they are unique and none of them gained any dragon power from Mordremoth until they completely succumbed to his will so it makes sense that resisting the dragon also means they resisted his power as well which would have corrupted them. > > > > > @"Talonblaze.3175" said: > > > AND if we include Balthazar, even his magic spread to the others and he didn't even possess dragon magic. > > > > Actually he did, back in Living world 3 Balthazar absorbed a great deal of magic from Primordus and Jormag after we broke the machine he was using to channel their powers against one another. > > This could very well be one of the reasons why his magic was attracted to and absorbed by an unconscious Aurine before Kralkatorrik sucked the rest of it up. > > The Bloodstone that Balthazar absorbed also contained Zhaitan and Mordremoth magic as well as stated in the white mantle journals. I've not seen those journals but the Bloodstones or stone was originally created to protect magic from the dragons. It's possible with the deaths of 2 elder dragons though that the magic unleashed was powerful enough to partially corrupt or damage the stones.. then the tampering of the mantle eventually broke one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted November 26, 2018 Share Posted November 26, 2018 > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > The Sylvari resisted Mordremoth and never succumb to his will thus they were not converted into the more powerful Mordrem forms. > > > The term minion doesn't really apply to them, Yes they have a link to the Jungle Dragon but they were born and nurtured by the Pale Tree as individuals with free will. > > > The Sylvari are not the same as Mordrem, Risen, Branded or Destroyers.. they are unique and none of them gained any dragon power from Mordremoth until they completely succumbed to his will so it makes sense that resisting the dragon also means they resisted his power as well which would have corrupted them. > > > > > > > @"Talonblaze.3175" said: > > > > AND if we include Balthazar, even his magic spread to the others and he didn't even possess dragon magic. > > > > > > Actually he did, back in Living world 3 Balthazar absorbed a great deal of magic from Primordus and Jormag after we broke the machine he was using to channel their powers against one another. > > > This could very well be one of the reasons why his magic was attracted to and absorbed by an unconscious Aurine before Kralkatorrik sucked the rest of it up. > > > > The Bloodstone that Balthazar absorbed also contained Zhaitan and Mordremoth magic as well as stated in the white mantle journals. > > I've not seen those journals but the Bloodstones or stone was originally created to protect magic from the dragons. > It's possible with the deaths of 2 elder dragons though that the magic unleashed was powerful enough to partially corrupt or damage the stones.. then the tampering of the mantle eventually broke one. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Grand_Savant_Valis_the_Learned%27s_Research_Journal Here ya go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teratus.2859 Posted November 26, 2018 Share Posted November 26, 2018 > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > The Sylvari resisted Mordremoth and never succumb to his will thus they were not converted into the more powerful Mordrem forms. > > > > The term minion doesn't really apply to them, Yes they have a link to the Jungle Dragon but they were born and nurtured by the Pale Tree as individuals with free will. > > > > The Sylvari are not the same as Mordrem, Risen, Branded or Destroyers.. they are unique and none of them gained any dragon power from Mordremoth until they completely succumbed to his will so it makes sense that resisting the dragon also means they resisted his power as well which would have corrupted them. > > > > > > > > > @"Talonblaze.3175" said: > > > > > AND if we include Balthazar, even his magic spread to the others and he didn't even possess dragon magic. > > > > > > > > Actually he did, back in Living world 3 Balthazar absorbed a great deal of magic from Primordus and Jormag after we broke the machine he was using to channel their powers against one another. > > > > This could very well be one of the reasons why his magic was attracted to and absorbed by an unconscious Aurine before Kralkatorrik sucked the rest of it up. > > > > > > The Bloodstone that Balthazar absorbed also contained Zhaitan and Mordremoth magic as well as stated in the white mantle journals. > > > > I've not seen those journals but the Bloodstones or stone was originally created to protect magic from the dragons. > > It's possible with the deaths of 2 elder dragons though that the magic unleashed was powerful enough to partially corrupt or damage the stones.. then the tampering of the mantle eventually broke one. > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Grand_Savant_Valis_the_Learned%27s_Research_Journal > > Here ya go. Ahh thanks much ^^ I do have that journal somewhere in my bank but totally forgot about it lol They grew with each dragon death, that's a good reminder to have, they must have absorbed a great deal of dragon magic as you said. Makes you wonder just how powerful Kralky would be right now if they hadn't huh O.O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Ansari.1604 Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > The Sylvari resisted Mordremoth and never succumb to his will thus they were not converted into the more powerful Mordrem forms. > > > > The term minion doesn't really apply to them, Yes they have a link to the Jungle Dragon but they were born and nurtured by the Pale Tree as individuals with free will. > > > > The Sylvari are not the same as Mordrem, Risen, Branded or Destroyers.. they are unique and none of them gained any dragon power from Mordremoth until they completely succumbed to his will so it makes sense that resisting the dragon also means they resisted his power as well which would have corrupted them. > > > > > > > > > @"Talonblaze.3175" said: > > > > > AND if we include Balthazar, even his magic spread to the others and he didn't even possess dragon magic. > > > > > > > > Actually he did, back in Living world 3 Balthazar absorbed a great deal of magic from Primordus and Jormag after we broke the machine he was using to channel their powers against one another. > > > > This could very well be one of the reasons why his magic was attracted to and absorbed by an unconscious Aurine before Kralkatorrik sucked the rest of it up. > > > > > > The Bloodstone that Balthazar absorbed also contained Zhaitan and Mordremoth magic as well as stated in the white mantle journals. > > > > I've not seen those journals but the Bloodstones or stone was originally created to protect magic from the dragons. > > It's possible with the deaths of 2 elder dragons though that the magic unleashed was powerful enough to partially corrupt or damage the stones.. then the tampering of the mantle eventually broke one. > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Grand_Savant_Valis_the_Learned%27s_Research_Journal > > Here ya go. The wording there is... odd. Valis doesn't say the Bloodstone absorbed the magic from Zhaitan and Mordremoth, but rather, that the increase of magic in the surrounding environment 'excites' the magic within the Stone. What that actually entails is anyone's guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 > @"Aaron Ansari.1604" said: > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > The Sylvari resisted Mordremoth and never succumb to his will thus they were not converted into the more powerful Mordrem forms. > > > > > The term minion doesn't really apply to them, Yes they have a link to the Jungle Dragon but they were born and nurtured by the Pale Tree as individuals with free will. > > > > > The Sylvari are not the same as Mordrem, Risen, Branded or Destroyers.. they are unique and none of them gained any dragon power from Mordremoth until they completely succumbed to his will so it makes sense that resisting the dragon also means they resisted his power as well which would have corrupted them. > > > > > > > > > > > @"Talonblaze.3175" said: > > > > > > AND if we include Balthazar, even his magic spread to the others and he didn't even possess dragon magic. > > > > > > > > > > Actually he did, back in Living world 3 Balthazar absorbed a great deal of magic from Primordus and Jormag after we broke the machine he was using to channel their powers against one another. > > > > > This could very well be one of the reasons why his magic was attracted to and absorbed by an unconscious Aurine before Kralkatorrik sucked the rest of it up. > > > > > > > > The Bloodstone that Balthazar absorbed also contained Zhaitan and Mordremoth magic as well as stated in the white mantle journals. > > > > > > I've not seen those journals but the Bloodstones or stone was originally created to protect magic from the dragons. > > > It's possible with the deaths of 2 elder dragons though that the magic unleashed was powerful enough to partially corrupt or damage the stones.. then the tampering of the mantle eventually broke one. > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Grand_Savant_Valis_the_Learned%27s_Research_Journal > > > > Here ya go. > > The wording there is... odd. Valis doesn't say the Bloodstone absorbed the magic from Zhaitan and Mordremoth, but rather, that the increase of magic in the surrounding environment 'excites' the magic within the Stone. What that actually entails is anyone's guess. > He does state in the journal that the Bloodstone grew when Zhaitan died and that it happened with more extreme after Mordremoth’s death. “The bloodstone itself continues to grow. Over the past few days, hundreds of new crystals have appeared in the clearing surrounding the stone. Continue reading. This phenomenon coincided with Zhaitan's death just days ago, and I would be foolish to assume the events were unrelated. It's amazing to think the stone could be affected from as far away as Orr! —— Another dragon felled, and the stone reacted far more than when Zhaitan died. We have now harvested enough magic to activate the Unseen One's ancient guardians.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konig Des Todes.2086 Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > Multi corrupted controlled by one dragon controlling said energies. It's been shown that dragon energies at opposing ends cancel each other out (primordus/jormag for example), so unless the power was controlled by one, they would end each other yes? And yet the Inquest have managed to contain that. So they have actually done "more" than the Dragons normally could. Jormag created a minion with opposing energies, though it resulted in something unstable. All three creatures made of multi-energies by the Inquest appear unstable, particularly Subject Alpha. Kudu's Monster, which is a bit more stable, could only channel one energy at a time unlike Alpha or Beta; Beta seems to have gained stability through Kralkatorrik absorbing those powers first. Even then, Mordremoth apparently used death magic without instability. So no, they've not done more than the Elder Dragons could. And the points remain: 1) it **can** be done. 2) there is **zero** evidence that dragon minions are immune to corruption by other Elder Dragons, but evidence countering this claim. and 3) sylvari immunity is outright stated, three times at least, to be caused by "the Pale Tree's protection" that they can ignore to become Soundless (aka the Dream). > @"Teratus.2859" said: > I've not seen those journals but the Bloodstones or stone was originally created to protect magic from the dragons. > It's possible with the deaths of 2 elder dragons though that the magic unleashed was powerful enough to partially corrupt or damage the stones.. then the tampering of the mantle eventually broke one. The Bloodstones apparently absorb ambient magic when its amount greatly increases (at the same time, it slowly leaks out magic when fractured, so ever since the gods broke it into five large pieces, it's been slowly leaking magic). I wouldn't say the act of growing due to more ambient magic corrupted or damaged the stones, since we heard of no problems coming from the Ring of Fire Bloodstone when we were right next door to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Ansari.1604 Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > @"Aaron Ansari.1604" said: > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > The Sylvari resisted Mordremoth and never succumb to his will thus they were not converted into the more powerful Mordrem forms. > > > > > > The term minion doesn't really apply to them, Yes they have a link to the Jungle Dragon but they were born and nurtured by the Pale Tree as individuals with free will. > > > > > > The Sylvari are not the same as Mordrem, Risen, Branded or Destroyers.. they are unique and none of them gained any dragon power from Mordremoth until they completely succumbed to his will so it makes sense that resisting the dragon also means they resisted his power as well which would have corrupted them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Talonblaze.3175" said: > > > > > > > AND if we include Balthazar, even his magic spread to the others and he didn't even possess dragon magic. > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually he did, back in Living world 3 Balthazar absorbed a great deal of magic from Primordus and Jormag after we broke the machine he was using to channel their powers against one another. > > > > > > This could very well be one of the reasons why his magic was attracted to and absorbed by an unconscious Aurine before Kralkatorrik sucked the rest of it up. > > > > > > > > > > The Bloodstone that Balthazar absorbed also contained Zhaitan and Mordremoth magic as well as stated in the white mantle journals. > > > > > > > > I've not seen those journals but the Bloodstones or stone was originally created to protect magic from the dragons. > > > > It's possible with the deaths of 2 elder dragons though that the magic unleashed was powerful enough to partially corrupt or damage the stones.. then the tampering of the mantle eventually broke one. > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Grand_Savant_Valis_the_Learned%27s_Research_Journal > > > > > > Here ya go. > > > > The wording there is... odd. Valis doesn't say the Bloodstone absorbed the magic from Zhaitan and Mordremoth, but rather, that the increase of magic in the surrounding environment 'excites' the magic within the Stone. What that actually entails is anyone's guess. > > > He does state in the journal that the Bloodstone grew when Zhaitan died and that it happened with more extreme after Mordremoth’s death. > > “The bloodstone itself continues to grow. Over the past few days, hundreds of new crystals have appeared in the clearing surrounding the stone. > > Continue reading. > > This phenomenon coincided with Zhaitan's death just days ago, and I would be foolish to assume the events were unrelated. It's amazing to think the stone could be affected from as far away as Orr! > > —— > > Another dragon felled, and the stone reacted far more than when Zhaitan died. We have now harvested enough magic to activate the Unseen One's ancient guardians.” > Yes, but before that: "Our long vigil over the stone has given us important insight. Over time, the stone has grown larger as events excite the magic it contains—much like a balloon expands when heated. Continue reading. The stone is nearly three times larger than it was when we first reclaimed it from the jungle." With that context, and Valis using 'continues' at the start of the second entry, it seems that he's attributing it to a continuation of the phenomenon that he detailed in the first entry. The Bloodstone magic is reacting to the environmental magic, and consequentially, the Stone is growing larger, but he never attributes it to the Stone absorbing energy- indeed, he never says whether the magic within the Stone is even growing more powerful, just that it's expanding its container, and implying that the process is expediting the harvest of magic. I do think the simile is telling, though. Not 'like a balloon expands when filled' but 'like a balloon expands when heated'- when a container grows larger but doesn't actually hold more of its contents. It's a very odd turn of phrase, since it's treating the magic as a substance instead of an energy, and I've no clue why environmental magic would cause Bloodstone magic to react like that... but if all they were saying was the Bloodstone was filling with released magic, there were much clearer ways to do it. This feels deliberate. Deliberate, but like I said, odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 > @"Aaron Ansari.1604" said: > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > @"Aaron Ansari.1604" said: > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > > The Sylvari resisted Mordremoth and never succumb to his will thus they were not converted into the more powerful Mordrem forms. > > > > > > > The term minion doesn't really apply to them, Yes they have a link to the Jungle Dragon but they were born and nurtured by the Pale Tree as individuals with free will. > > > > > > > The Sylvari are not the same as Mordrem, Risen, Branded or Destroyers.. they are unique and none of them gained any dragon power from Mordremoth until they completely succumbed to his will so it makes sense that resisting the dragon also means they resisted his power as well which would have corrupted them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Talonblaze.3175" said: > > > > > > > > AND if we include Balthazar, even his magic spread to the others and he didn't even possess dragon magic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually he did, back in Living world 3 Balthazar absorbed a great deal of magic from Primordus and Jormag after we broke the machine he was using to channel their powers against one another. > > > > > > > This could very well be one of the reasons why his magic was attracted to and absorbed by an unconscious Aurine before Kralkatorrik sucked the rest of it up. > > > > > > > > > > > > The Bloodstone that Balthazar absorbed also contained Zhaitan and Mordremoth magic as well as stated in the white mantle journals. > > > > > > > > > > I've not seen those journals but the Bloodstones or stone was originally created to protect magic from the dragons. > > > > > It's possible with the deaths of 2 elder dragons though that the magic unleashed was powerful enough to partially corrupt or damage the stones.. then the tampering of the mantle eventually broke one. > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Grand_Savant_Valis_the_Learned%27s_Research_Journal > > > > > > > > Here ya go. > > > > > > The wording there is... odd. Valis doesn't say the Bloodstone absorbed the magic from Zhaitan and Mordremoth, but rather, that the increase of magic in the surrounding environment 'excites' the magic within the Stone. What that actually entails is anyone's guess. > > > > > He does state in the journal that the Bloodstone grew when Zhaitan died and that it happened with more extreme after Mordremoth’s death. > > > > “The bloodstone itself continues to grow. Over the past few days, hundreds of new crystals have appeared in the clearing surrounding the stone. > > > > Continue reading. > > > > This phenomenon coincided with Zhaitan's death just days ago, and I would be foolish to assume the events were unrelated. It's amazing to think the stone could be affected from as far away as Orr! > > > > —— > > > > Another dragon felled, and the stone reacted far more than when Zhaitan died. We have now harvested enough magic to activate the Unseen One's ancient guardians.” > > > > Yes, but it was growing before that. > > "Our long vigil over the stone has given us important insight. Over time, the stone has grown larger as events excite the magic it contains—much like a balloon expands when heated. > Continue reading. > The stone is nearly three times larger than it was when we first reclaimed it from the jungle." > > With that context, and Valis using 'continues' at the start of the second entry, it seems that he's attributing it to a continuation of the phenomenon that he detailed in the first entry. The Bloodstone magic is reacting to the environmental magic, and consequentially, the Stone is growing larger, but he never attributes it to the Stone absorbing energy- indeed, he never says whether the magic within the Stone is even growing more powerful, just that it's expanding its container, and implying that the process is expediting the harvest of magic. I just figured that was just what has happening as it doesn’t really explain where the magic went. Is the magic just assaulting the outside shell and dissipating? Is it entering the Bloodstone? Is it going somewhere else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Its Nerfing Time.1495 Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 @Konig, not quite sure how you're not comprehending this, so I'll go a bit slower. Yes, they have gone further because they combined 5 into one. No Elder Dragon has combined more than one, into one being, without them first actually having the powers themselves (i.e. mordremoth/jormag/primordus weren't creating death infused creatures until they had Zhaitan's power). You also completely ignored my point about the powers opposing each other and cancelling each other out, well done you. @Aaron - you ignored my point and still refuse to answer it. It's a simple yes or no question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konig Des Todes.2086 Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 I'd say it's ironic if I wasn't partially convinced at this point you're trolling that it is you who isn't comprehending that the Inquest is literally doing nothing but exposing individuals - and dragon minions - to the Elder Dragon's corruptive magic. If they didn't have labs to channel the corruptive magic, which they do not alter in any way, they'd basically be sending them to the Elder Dragons themselves (or rather, their champions). Your argument is claiming that if a scientist puts an animal that isn't in a crocodile's native environment in the same room as a crocodile and the crocodile eats said animal without any prompting, the scientist has achieved more than crocodiles in the wild that hunt their own local prey. And they really, honestly, haven't. Also, I directly talked about the whole "powers opposing each other and cancelling each other out" bit (which, btw, is rather speculative that it goes beyond Jormag/Primordus at the moment anyways). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Its Nerfing Time.1495 Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said: > I'd say it's ironic if I wasn't partially convinced at this point you're trolling that it is you who isn't comprehending that the Inquest is literally doing nothing but exposing individuals - and dragon minions - to the Elder Dragon's corruptive magic. > > If they didn't have labs to channel the corruptive magic, which they do not alter in any way, they'd basically be sending them to the Elder Dragons themselves (or rather, their champions). > > Your argument is claiming that if a scientist puts an animal that isn't in a crocodile's native environment in the same room as a crocodile and the crocodile eats said animal without any prompting, the scientist has achieved more than crocodiles in the wild that hunt their own local prey. And they really, honestly, haven't. > > Also, I directly talked about the whole "powers opposing each other and cancelling each other out" bit (which, btw, is rather speculative that it goes beyond Jormag/Primordus at the moment anyways). Impressive, you completely missed the point again. The inquest put 5 magics in one being. This has yet to be done by ONE single elder dragon, who didn't already have the powers in them. Also there's nothing speculative thanks to Deux Ex Taimi and her machine, which was attuned to both ice/fire dragons and only affected them both. if they didn't have their labs, they wouldn't be able to expose one individual to 5 elder dragon magics because they'd be corrupted from the first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konig Des Todes.2086 Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > Also there's nothing speculative thanks to Deux Ex Taimi and her machine, which was attuned to both ice/fire dragons and only affected them both. I didn't miss any point, you're just too stubborn to ever accept apparently (or are trolling but if that's the case then you'll not accept this fact either), so I'll ignore that this time and give one final response to you on the other matter: Taimi's Machine only points Jormag and Primordus as opposites because that was their "unique weakness". The notion that every Elder Dragon has another as an opposite, such as Mordremoth to Zhaitan, is speculative, as their unique weakness is known and not the - to quote you - "dragon energies at opposing ends". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Its Nerfing Time.1495 Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said: > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > Also there's nothing speculative thanks to Deux Ex Taimi and her machine, which was attuned to both ice/fire dragons and only affected them both. > > I didn't miss any point, you're just too stubborn to ever accept apparently (or are trolling but if that's the case then you'll not accept this fact either), so I'll ignore that this time and give one final response to you on the other matter: > > Taimi's Machine only points Jormag and Primordus as opposites because that was their "unique weakness". The notion that every Elder Dragon has another as an opposite, such as Mordremoth to Zhaitan, is speculative, as their unique weakness is known and not the - to quote you - "dragon energies at opposing ends". I'm trolling because you can't either: A) Accept a point B) See a point Huh, fancy that. And nice try on the quoting me to try and take what I say out of context. Dragons have their weaknesses and what reason do you have for assuming (should I bold and underline this?) that dragons aren't at opposing ends? If a precedent is set, that's that. Tami's machine was set for those two, imagine it being set for another two hmm? You still also glossed over my other point that Inquest have somehow done something other dragons have not, gee I wonder why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konig Des Todes.2086 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > Dragons have their weaknesses and what reason do you have for assuming (should I bold and underline this?) that dragons aren't at opposing ends? If a precedent is set, that's that. Tami's machine was set for those two, imagine it being set for another two hmm? Proof that you're trolling or at the very least, not reading my replies, honestly, is right here. Because that's not what I said; I never said that the dragons aren't at opposite ends. I said that there's _no actual proof_ for them being opposites or counteractive - I was ignoring my own speculation in this statement and merely stating the facts (something you've yet to do). And a precedent of one is not a precedence, especially when it is countered. Your source for "Elder Dragon energies are in opposing pairs" is that Jormag and Primordus are each other's unique weakness. However, Mordremoth's unique weakness was his own mind, and Zhaitan's unique weakness was his over-reliance on unique minions, while Kralkatorrik's unique weakness is his own crystalline resonance. This means that 2 out of 5 known unique weaknesses is "another Elder Dragon" - and in all honesty, that may not be true, as we see with Jormag's tooth being shattered by ancient jotun fire magic while the spirit of Fire is used by the Kodan to hold off Jormag's corruption, indicating that it is a certain field of fire magic that is Jormag's unique weakness, not specifically Primordus. > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > You still also glossed over my other point that Inquest have somehow done something other dragons have not, gee I wonder why. Because I give up trying to get you to see that they haven't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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