This game mode is not all inclusive

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @"Warlord.9074" said:

> ya the 3 post above Justine don't get the point.

 

Unfortunately many in this thread didn’t get your point.

 

They viewed it as you were asking for more ‘care bear’ Mechanics to level the field which, was no part of your point..

 

As in most things today, things are read very superficially, and certain words elicit a response regardless of the context.

[Kaiser.9873]

> @"Straegen.2938" said:

> > @"Kaiser.9873" said:

> > So lemme get this straight....People good at the game SHOULDN'T be able to farm casuals new to the mode?

>

> I think the issue is less about farming new players and new players not being welcomed and taught the ropes. The current WvW setup actively discourages veterans from guiding new players through the various areas. I straight up leave an area/fight when new players are around.

>

> This in turn creates a hostile new player environment. Few if any new players will stick around after getting run over, and over, and over when they first step into WvW. Veterans should have an incentive to help new players and the game mode itself should have enticing rewards so new players have a vested interest in trying it out.

 

I would agree with this for many servers, but there are at least a few servers that are actively welcoming of newer players. My current server...probably not, but YB was pretty welcoming of newer players at the time I left there.

[Djamonja.6453]

> @"gebrechen.5643" said:

 

> Maguuma, Tarnished Coast, Jade Quarry, HoD, Dragonbrand, Blackgate are dead, the new experiments Crystal Desert, SoS, *SoR are dead again too.

>

> My expectation for the "soon" coming alliances is that one alliance, most likely the Kaineng one, will dominate over what's now FA and the rest will be unhappy lootbags. Prove me wrong. Right, you won't.

>

>

You're pretty wrong about which servers are dead or not. There was no CD experiment either, just people went back to Mag who were on SoR for a few weeks.

[shiri.4257]

> @"gebrechen.5643" said:

> My expectation for the "soon" coming alliances is that one alliance, most likely the Kaineng one, will dominate over what's now FA and the rest will be unhappy lootbags. Prove me wrong. Right, you won't.

 

Damn, did someone mention an alliance? When's the next revolutionary speech coming through here?

 

 

[Warlord.9074]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

 

> Ignoring the fact that neither point killed WvW.

>

 

what actually killed wvw more than any of the toxic things that the players did, was powercreep., by adding extremely hard to balance class mechanics into every expansion. Since WvW balance is tied to PVE balance. Every time that has happened it took over a year to straiten out. There was very little concern of how powercreeping PVE would effect wvw and HoT and PoF drove players away faster than anything. Balance right now is pretty decent at least that has stopped the bleeding from for the most part.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Warlord.9074" said:

> > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > @"Warlord.9074" said:

> > > > @"Caliburn.1845" said:

> > > > So I'm curious, what do you guys think would be the most productive ways to revive WvW communities(or create new ones) and sustain those communities?

> > > >

> > > > All this talk of exclusion or inclusion, Alliances working or not working, servers or guilds working or not working. If its all so obvious, what good improvements can be made to foster communities?

> > >

> > > Create 9 new servers and reduce NA to 3 tiers and stop locking servers, as an immediate bandaid. let who ever is left just stack where ever they want and stop this constant nonsense of matchmaking every 2 months just because anet didn't want to delete serves because a vocal minority complained about server loyalty, which is just yikes since anet is going to delete all the servers anyways. Why does this matter at this point. Delete all of the servers, Give people free transfers whos world got deleted. When there is ques on every map and there is only 3 tiers left people will spread out more. cuz they will not want to wait in que to play.

> > >

> > > That is really the problem with NA and has been for years. Most of the reason for matchup imbalances has nothing to do with coverage and has everything with there being to many servers to support the players base, and anets refusal to just have less servers. Honestly is so stupid that the most easiest and logical way forward and yet is completely overlooked or ignored.

> >

> > Your "immediate bandaid" requires every change that alliances do, except its a one-time and then you have the exact same problems after 2 months, as opposed to alliances solving it for the future. How can that be Anet refusing or overlooking/ignoring it when they are saying its being worked on?

>

> My bandaid requires none of the proposed changes, it's simply what should of just been done. There is no proof at all that alliance system will solve anything. Keep in mind the alliance system idea was proposed by the same people that run the Kaining alliance. Good intentions or not theres a lot to be said about creating rules and structures that help you.

Your bandaid requires deleting and creating new ones in order to spread people out in the tiers. Thats exactly what alliances do. Except your idea hopes that players can balance themselves. The existing system is literally proof that they dont. You're just creating a new problem that will slowly kill WvW because people will trickle up for free as the low tiers die, not down. Alliances doesnt need "proof" it will solve *your* issues with WvW, because it wont. It solves the population discrepancy between T1 and T4 by splitting up players in smaller chunks than links and redistributing them across the worlds at intervals, period. There is no "proof" involved in that. Thats what it will do.

 

/Revolutionary speech

[Solori.6025]

> @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said:

> > @"Caliburn.1845" said:

> > So I'm curious, what do you guys think would be the most productive ways to revive WvW communities(or create new ones) and sustain those communities?

> >

> > All this talk of exclusion or inclusion, Alliances working or not working, servers or guilds working or not working. If its all so obvious, what good improvements can be made to foster communities?

> There's nothing Anet can really do that it hasn't already done or is trying to do. Most of WvW's problems are laid at the feet of the playerbase, who have actively unbalanced the game mode literally every chance they get.

 

This brings to memory the tournaments they used to have for WvW, and how everytime it was annouced people would bandwagon to a lower tier server that wasnt full, stack it, and get the first place rewards.

I think it's understandable to want Anet to fix this broken system.

But people need to start placing the other half of the well deserved blame on the variable that Anet cant seem to ever fix or appease.

 

The playerbase-

 

[Israel.7056]

> @"Solori.6025" said:

> > @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said:

> > > @"Caliburn.1845" said:

> > > So I'm curious, what do you guys think would be the most productive ways to revive WvW communities(or create new ones) and sustain those communities?

> > >

> > > All this talk of exclusion or inclusion, Alliances working or not working, servers or guilds working or not working. If its all so obvious, what good improvements can be made to foster communities?

> > There's nothing Anet can really do that it hasn't already done or is trying to do. Most of WvW's problems are laid at the feet of the playerbase, who have actively unbalanced the game mode literally every chance they get.

>

> This brings to memory the tournaments they used to have for WvW, and how everytime it was annouced people would bandwagon to a lower tier server that wasnt full, stack it, and get the first place rewards.

> I think it's understandable to want Anet to fix this broken system.

> But people need to start placing the other half of the well deserved blame on the variable that Anet cant seem to ever fix or appease.

>

> The playerbase-

>

 

But the implicit assumption of any competitive system must be that humans will do almost anything they can think of to beat the system and win the game if they care about winning. It doesn't make sense to me to blame the players for always trying to find the most efficient path to victory as that should always be expected behavior.

[Solori.6025]

> @"Israel.7056" said:

> > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > > @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said:

> > > > @"Caliburn.1845" said:

> > > > So I'm curious, what do you guys think would be the most productive ways to revive WvW communities(or create new ones) and sustain those communities?

> > > >

> > > > All this talk of exclusion or inclusion, Alliances working or not working, servers or guilds working or not working. If its all so obvious, what good improvements can be made to foster communities?

> > > There's nothing Anet can really do that it hasn't already done or is trying to do. Most of WvW's problems are laid at the feet of the playerbase, who have actively unbalanced the game mode literally every chance they get.

> >

> > This brings to memory the tournaments they used to have for WvW, and how everytime it was annouced people would bandwagon to a lower tier server that wasnt full, stack it, and get the first place rewards.

> > I think it's understandable to want Anet to fix this broken system.

> > But people need to start placing the other half of the well deserved blame on the variable that Anet cant seem to ever fix or appease.

> >

> > The playerbase-

> >

>

> But the implicit assumption of any competitive system must be that humans will do almost anything they can think of to beat the system and win the game if they care about winning. It doesn't make sense to me to blame the players for always trying to find the most efficient path to victory as that should always be expected behavior.

 

I hear you on that, I do.

But then those same players lose the right to complain about the system or lack of participation of the system.

I think it would also be assumed that no one likes to be a punching bag.

Like I said though while anet is no angel (and they could do a lot of things better) I don't think it would be fair to place blame solely on them when the playerbase is the one actively looking to break the system.

[Caliburn.1845]

Aside from a handful of players hacking, which have never to my knowledge actually changed the outcome of any match-up, all WvW players are confined to the rules of the game mode as determined by Anet. Blaming the players for the decline of the game-mode is a ridiculous argument that doesn't hold up at all.

 

Players doing anything in their power to win? That is what players of any game do.

Players no longer care about winning? Anet's fault.

Players no longer care about server loyalty? Anet's fault.

Players have the ability to transfer servers? Anet's Fault

 

The only thing you can blame the playerbase for is getting bored of a game-mode that has seen no significant changes in six years.

[ArchonWing.9480]

WvW dead? Well, I can give you the exact moment and location of the cause of death.

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/2015-03-16

 

Stability: This boon has been changed from a duration stack type to an intensity stack type. Crowd-control effects will remove one instance of stability apiece each time they are applied. Each ability and trait has been adjusted to apply a certain number of stacks. All instances of stability not listed in these release notes will remain at one stack.

 

Well, okay, it didn't die there. Stability was fixed eventually, but too little too late, plus the power creep of the expansions didn't help either. But this moronic change singleghandedly devastated the WvW landscape. Coverage, desert borderlands, and ego driven drama simply do not compare to this one. Well, I guess the whole money grab.... err I mean Guild Hall redesign comes close. If those were disasters, this is an extinction event.