Elusive Mind Needs Some Love

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

> @"tinyreborn.1938" said:

> ALSO since when mirage even more broken than before? After all those nerfs its way weaker than its used to be by a lot . Before mirage could play sword torch staff and now if you play it you dont do any pressure and cant 1x1 anything . May be you are right, all nerfs made mirage stronger... Can we do the same with other overperforming classes? Make them busted via nerfs! You made my day lad

 

They did not get stronger numbers wise, the nerf just made more people slot a stronger trait since EM is now so unappealing. Their presence as a whole in the PVP sphere is now worse because the nerf to EM did not fix the issue, it just made more mirages slot IH.

 

> @"tinyreborn.1938" said:

> > **(Wootofok u talking about here?)**

 

Mirages can, due to Mirage cloak, evade when stunned, even without taking Elusive Mind. Every other class in the game has to slot a utility skill to address stuns. Mirage does not. all it costs them is endurance.

 

I'm getting the feeling you don't understand the kind of advantage that affords, though.

 

[Tiah.3091]

> @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> All the balance team has to do is revert that one skill and Holosmith is probably balanced.

 

Suuuure!

1) 70% uptime avatar form with above-than-berserker level of damage and 2-5 seconds cooldowns.

2) perma-stability through corona burst trait

3) perma swiftness, protection and regen

4) Perma-vigor and dodges every 5 sec

5) 20k overall heals per 30 seconds

6) 3 skills chain CC

7) 600 units dash on 2 seconds cooldown

 

All of the above, while wearing glass amulet like demo. With 0 concentration.

 

Suuuuuure. Holo is perfectly fine, apart from Ele U.

 

 

[tinyreborn.1938]

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > @"tinyreborn.1938" said:

> > ALSO since when mirage even more broken than before? After all those nerfs its way weaker than its used to be by a lot . Before mirage could play sword torch staff and now if you play it you dont do any pressure and cant 1x1 anything . May be you are right, all nerfs made mirage stronger... Can we do the same with other overperforming classes? Make them busted via nerfs! You made my day lad

>

> They did not get stronger numbers wise, the nerf just made more people slot a stronger trait since EM is now so unappealing. Their presence as a whole in the PVP sphere is now worse because the nerf to EM did not fix the issue, it just made more mirages slot IH.

>

> > @"tinyreborn.1938" said:

> > > **(Wootofok u talking about here?)**

>

> Mirages can, due to Mirage cloak, evade when stunned, even without taking Elusive Mind. Every other class in the game has to slot a utility skill to address stuns. Mirage does not. all it costs them is endurance.

>

> I'm getting the feeling you don't understand the kind of advantage that affords, though.

>

 

I'm more than aware what mirage cloak does. Other classes doesnt use their dodges for offence as mirage does while having gutted vigor. Be happy he burn 1-2 dodges to cover stuns and not being able to pressure you and forced to retreat.

You confused me like mirage need to dodge to distarget xD

I still dont understand what is your complain there? Number of mesmers decreased thanks to all nerfs. Very few ppl I see on lb that play mesmer (and they are not really high there)

Complains about dodge in cc is like ... other classes dont have mirage elite spec feature , pls fix

[Nath Forge Tempete.1645]

You bette go removing it and replace it with something completely different... elusive mind is a design problem ... it was completely overpowered to be able to dodge basedline at start... but a breakstun in addition. It's a bad joke from Anet honestly.

 

(and then they said Weaver was a important time effort ... which is super lackluster anyway. They better not put effort in ele anymore tbh.)

[kodesh.2851]

I agree IM needs a buff or rather slight un-nerf. As it stands there's basically no reason to take it over IH on any spec.

[Devilman.1532]

> @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > @"Devilman.1532" said:

> > and the MESEMERLOLTRAIN rolls on... don't you guys get it? Its what they consider their "signature class" that many of the Devs play. It will never be razed tot he ground like other classes int he history of this game have been and to a degree still are.

>

> Arent you the guy playing Broken passives Holo?

 

Nope wouldn't play that trashbag if you paid me

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

> @"tinyreborn.1938" said:

> Complains about dodge in cc is like ... other classes dont have mirage elite spec feature , pls fix

 

This isn't what I'm saying either.

 

What I'm saying is that, on a class that is already difficult to burst by nature of their class, they are also allowed to avoid bursts too easily in the event that they get tagged by a stun. Landing a stun or hard cc on a Mirage should at the very least mean they _have_ to burn a utility skill to remove it or avoid follow ups, so that when they consider builds, skills in the event they are cced take up space on their skill bar.

 

It seems like this was even the intended functionality of the class, as Anet included a grandmaster trait that GIVES them the ability to break hard cc on dodge at the cost of endurance regen. But nobody is considering the skill because...why would you need to if you can just dodge in place and effectively ignore the consequences of the stun anyway?

 

I'm not saying every class needs this functionality, nor am I saying that mirage needs to be nerfed to the ground. As it stands right now though, being able to avoid any bursts as long as you have endurance gives Mirages too much survivability for what they can do.

 

 

> @"tinyreborn.1938" said:

> Other classes doesnt use their dodges for offence as mirage does while having gutted vigor. Be happy he burn 1-2 dodges to cover stuns and not being able to pressure you and forced to retreat.

 

My whole point is he should be considering burning utilities to cover stuns like everyone else. right now, the defensive tree is too large.

 

Vs any class that has a burst combo that relies on one or two key skills, right now the burst can be mitigated by dodge, distortion, blink or jaunt, Power break, Signet of Midnight, having blinding dissipation slotted, and probably a couple of other things, no matter how the mirage was outplayed. And given that vigor is not gutted as long as people refuse to take Elusive Mind (which, again, they don't need to take because they can dodge while disabled by nature of Mirage Cloak anyway), as long as a mirage has 50 endurance they are effectively immune to setups or any combo strings that rely on cc.

 

And that on top of a handful of their skills being able to dictate whether or not you have the correct target/any target at all is too much. This is one of the only classes in the game that requires you to manage your target locks, anticipation of attacks coming from stealth, untelegraphed disables and both movement and skill punishing condition stacks, with the difference between this and thief being that they don't even get punished for failing all of that (or, if you prefer, being outplayed), because as long as they have 50 endurance they cannot be set up for burst.

 

Either they need to be annoying and able to rack up damage, but fragile if you DO catch them, or attrition based but less dangerous. Right now they have both, and there's a predictable amount of people saying that's fine.

 

Asking players to monitor the mirage's options from stealth, the charges on power lock, the stacks of torment and confusion they put on you, their ability to force you to drop target or switch targets to one of their clones, whether or not their sword 2 is on cooldown, whether or not their distortion shatter is on cooldown, and keep tabs of the very small window of them having no dodges AND no breakstun utilities before you even BEGIN to consider bursting them isn't fair to the person on receiving end. While you're waiting for that tiny window of them having no resources, they're damaging you for free. Even thief has to respect stuns, and they have the lowest HP in the game.

 

[tinyreborn.1938]

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

I really should went through this wall ...again ? I could but I'm sick and feel bad for it

>Asking players to monitor the mirage's options from stealth etc.etc.etc

Asking players to play the game ... How dare you?!

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

> @"tinyreborn.1938" said:

> > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> I really should went through this wall ...again ? I could but I'm sick and feel bad for it

> >Asking players to monitor the mirage's options from stealth etc.etc.etc

> Asking players to play the game ... How dare you?!

 

Obviously I was mistaken in thinking I could reason with you about this. <3

[tinyreborn.1938]

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > @"tinyreborn.1938" said:

> > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > I really should went through this wall ...again ? I could but I'm sick and feel bad for it

> > >Asking players to monitor the mirage's options from stealth etc.etc.etc

> > Asking players to play the game ... How dare you?!

>

> Obviously I was mistaken in thinking I could reason with you about this. <3

Okay <3

[incisorr.9502]

there are 3 holos and rangers in top 10 regularly but there's 1-3 mirages in... TOP 40 .. of the european leaderboard

 

i think facts speak for themselves, mirage is nowhere near as good as before due to all the nerfs and it can use some buffs not just on EM

 

> vigor uptime was reduced by 50%

> condi duration was overall reduced by 20-%ish

> burn was reworked to have less stacks (which means less burst damage)

> confusion doesn't do damage for the skill that cleanses it any more (it did before)

 

on top of that power classes were buffed throughout time so power is already much better than condi in general

 

on top of that the rise of boonbeast also hinders mesmer because boonbeast is a counter to mesmer

[Sampson.2403]

Everyones focusing on a single element of the mirage kit and getting way too caught up in the mechanics of mirage cloak.

 

You need to look at the entire kit of each spec not just one trait. The synergy that full counter has with the rest of a spellbreakers kit or the insanity of a holos kit, or the boon beast kit are all easily on par with that of the mirage kit.

 

A slippery class that uses clones, stealth and spams confusion/torment for damage requires an investment in l2p against time which most people are just too lazy to do.

[Blue.1207]

Elusive mind is currently pretty gimp. If Anet wants to rework it then it’s time to remove the ability to dodge when CC’d as a base mirage ability (op beyond heck), and move it into elusive mind while halving the exhaustion duration.

[viquing.8254]

> @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> Being able to evade while CCed is inherently broken so

 

It's less broken than having 60%+ stability uptime and/or plethora of breakstunt with strong side effects, just look at what you have, apart necro who is teamfight op but lack breakstunts, everyone have many tools to evade CC.

 

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"Oslaf Beinir.5842" said:

> > Why use EM when IH is there?

>

> Just the condition cleanse on dodge really.

That's it.

[Zaraki.5784]

Ah, mesmers complaining about their OPness not being enough, now I've seen everything!