Everything oneshots you.

[gebrechen.5643]


 

 

I don't know what you mean by "abilities that can oneshot you".

 

 

 

 

[Psycoprophet.8107]

The damage is too high. Arenet may have handed out a lot of blocks, invulnerability and mobility to combat its increase,save a few profession they left out lol. Keeping a check on the damage in first place would have been ideal, create more enjoyable sustained duels that can better make use of some of the creative combat mechanics and skills arenet has developed. Would also alow more viable build diversity,adding mechanics or skills to deal with something broken is just adding more to the problem and creating more broken mechanics and skills,it’s especially a problem when only half the professions get these bandaids added to their skills etc

[Burnfall.9573]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> The damage is too high. Arenet may have handed out a lot of blocks, invulnerability and mobility to combat its increase,save a few profession they left out lol. Keeping a check on the damage in first place would have been ideal, create more enjoyable sustained duels that can better make use of some of the creative combat mechanics and skills arenet has developed. Would also alow more viable build diversity,adding mechanics or skills **to deal with something broken is just adding more to the problem and creating more broken mechanics and skills,itS**s especially a problem when only half the professions get these bandaids added to their skills etc

 

well said

 

' *You don't extinguish fire by adding more fire* '

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> The damage is too high. Arenet may have handed out a lot of blocks, invulnerability and mobility to combat its increase,save a few profession they left out lol. Keeping a check on the damage in first place would have been ideal, create more enjoyable sustained duels that can better make use of some of the creative combat mechanics and skills arenet has developed. Would also alow more viable build diversity,adding mechanics or skills to deal with something broken is just adding more to the problem and creating more broken mechanics and skills,it’s especially a problem when only half the professions get these bandaids added to their skills etc

Yet when you ask... basicly everybody... what the definition of "skill" is they will say running high risk low reward builds - ie glass cannons - and then they shun the sustain builds as OP, low risk and abuse of mechanics.

 

So what is it we want?

[lodjur.1284]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > The damage is too high. Arenet may have handed out a lot of blocks, invulnerability and mobility to combat its increase,save a few profession they left out lol. Keeping a check on the damage in first place would have been ideal, create more enjoyable sustained duels that can better make use of some of the creative combat mechanics and skills arenet has developed. Would also alow more viable build diversity,adding mechanics or skills to deal with something broken is just adding more to the problem and creating more broken mechanics and skills,it’s especially a problem when only half the professions get these bandaids added to their skills etc

> Yet when you ask... basicly everybody... what the definition of "skill" is they will say running high risk low reward builds - ie glass cannons - and then they shun the sustain builds as OP, low risk and abuse of mechanics.

>

> So what is it we want?

 

Well that depends on what circles you move in. Basically "everybody" I know agrees that burst+mobility is less "skilled" than sustain builds. But skilled is a very loose and subjective term, so is what kind of fights one finds enjoyable.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > The damage is too high. Arenet may have handed out a lot of blocks, invulnerability and mobility to combat its increase,save a few profession they left out lol. Keeping a check on the damage in first place would have been ideal, create more enjoyable sustained duels that can better make use of some of the creative combat mechanics and skills arenet has developed. Would also alow more viable build diversity,adding mechanics or skills to deal with something broken is just adding more to the problem and creating more broken mechanics and skills,it’s especially a problem when only half the professions get these bandaids added to their skills etc

> > Yet when you ask... basicly everybody... what the definition of "skill" is they will say running high risk low reward builds - ie glass cannons - and then they shun the sustain builds as OP, low risk and abuse of mechanics.

> >

> > So what is it we want?

>

> Well that depends on what circles you move in. Basically "everybody" I know agrees that burst+mobility is less "skilled" than sustain builds. But skilled is a very loose and subjective term, so is what kind of fights one finds enjoyable.

 

i guess that mostly is because of what people consider as risky and rewarding. while dwadler called the glass cannons high risk & low reward , the ones calling burst+mobility less skilled usually say that those are low risk (good escape options) , high reward (one little distraction of the opponent is enough).

this also depends on context, can you use suprise / distraction or not. if you can, then burst+mobility is often 'less skilled' - aka better/efficient.

[lodjur.1284]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > The damage is too high. Arenet may have handed out a lot of blocks, invulnerability and mobility to combat its increase,save a few profession they left out lol. Keeping a check on the damage in first place would have been ideal, create more enjoyable sustained duels that can better make use of some of the creative combat mechanics and skills arenet has developed. Would also alow more viable build diversity,adding mechanics or skills to deal with something broken is just adding more to the problem and creating more broken mechanics and skills,it’s especially a problem when only half the professions get these bandaids added to their skills etc

> > > Yet when you ask... basicly everybody... what the definition of "skill" is they will say running high risk low reward builds - ie glass cannons - and then they shun the sustain builds as OP, low risk and abuse of mechanics.

> > >

> > > So what is it we want?

> >

> > Well that depends on what circles you move in. Basically "everybody" I know agrees that burst+mobility is less "skilled" than sustain builds. But skilled is a very loose and subjective term, so is what kind of fights one finds enjoyable.

>

> i guess that mostly is because of what people consider as risky and rewarding. while dwadler called the glass cannons high risk & low reward , the ones calling burst+mobility less skilled usually say that those are low risk (good escape options) , high reward (one little distraction of the opponent is enough).

> this also depends on context, can you use suprise / distraction or not. if you can, then burst+mobility is 'less skilled' - aka better/efficient.

 

 

Ye exactly imo sustain builds are much higher risk because you can't reset

Well all viable builds in wvw either have decent sustain (in groups this can mean having a pet firebrand) or good mobility. Otherwise they simply don't work. So in practice there's no build that everyone would consider to be "high risk" that isn't just high risk because it's bad.

 

Most people call for example power mirage or thief glass cannons but they really aren't with the active defenses available.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

IMHO professions that have higher sustain should have good damage but not great,access to protection buffs(-33 damage) no invul skills, a block and just enough mobility to traverse maps and duel efficiently, medium Susan classes better damage, less access to protection buffs,a block and no invul. Glass classes highest damage,teleport,block and a invulnerability skill( high CD, low duration) no access to protection buffs. Arenet balance team I gues thinks the high sustain professions should have the invul,blocks,protection access,really high damage,great mobility, necro excluded.the glass classes of the game get damage on same lever as classes with way higher sustain yet way less access to defensive options other then better mobility(not by much in a lot of cases) which results in pike and retreat play styles which isn’t healthy,too few classes give enough meaningful support to the team in a for a mmo so get tight metas with not only same few builds but also classes and that’s not healthy. Example necro and reaper I always get frustrated with its lack of mobility,blocks and invul access compared to other professions with natural high sustain professions but maybe it’s the other classes have too much not that necro has to little. Games got a lot going for it and I find the community pretty decent as well as can be expected from us humans lol but game needs a lot of changes as far as balance direction. Pve is decent but all pvp modes are so imbalanced that new players get frustrated and don’t bother with them which is unfortunate

[Psycoprophet.8107]

To the post above issue I find is high sustain builds that use tons of blocks and invulnerability skills also have access to good mobility tools,Boonbeast i swoop,greatsword leap,same for warrior, guard leap and teleport,holo shrink invul and stealth access and than thief has ability to reset but very little else to compansate. A class shouldn’t have to depend on whittling away defenses as well as being so glassy it needs to reset,if it’s natural sustain and access to defensives are so low it’s reseting fights as its main way to service than it should have a high enough burst to take any profession down in a single bust if opponent doesn’t skillfully use there deffensive options effectively to avoid the unhealthy stab and run crap that thief is now which isn’t fun for either party’s in most cases. Mirage is poorly balanced because it has access to far to many things compared to the other professions

[apharma.3741]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > The damage is too high. Arenet may have handed out a lot of blocks, invulnerability and mobility to combat its increase,save a few profession they left out lol. Keeping a check on the damage in first place would have been ideal, create more enjoyable sustained duels that can better make use of some of the creative combat mechanics and skills arenet has developed. Would also alow more viable build diversity,adding mechanics or skills to deal with something broken is just adding more to the problem and creating more broken mechanics and skills,it’s especially a problem when only half the professions get these bandaids added to their skills etc

> Yet when you ask... basicly everybody... what the definition of "skill" is they will say running high risk low reward builds - ie glass cannons - and then they shun the sustain builds as OP, low risk and abuse of mechanics.

>

> So what is it we want?

 

I think most people can agree that a build with a high amount of passive effects is on the lower end of risk/skill. By passive effects I mean where something happens with no user interaction at all like protective ward on ranger, the multitudes of passive effects on ele/engineer for being hit or CC'd.

 

I guess it also depends on stats as well, no-one will deny that running berserker gear on low/medium health classes is higher risk especially in the meta with so much damage. Running high toughness + protection is pretty much going to counter almost all power classes to the point where the other person shouldn't really win, you might not either but you take so little damage you can afford many mistakes. However itself might be weak to condition builds if not having cleanses or high vitality.

 

Many people will point at condition builds as being low risk high reward. In some ways they are in many ways they aren't. You can dodge and block most "bursts" of condition damage and if you look at how much damage the autos do compared to power it's usually less damage without factoring the ability to cleanse. There are some condition builds that are too strong, they burst too much, too fast in a very oppressive way while having the ability to escape but is it any worse than the power builds that can do that too which will kill you in seconds?

 

Personally I think more skilful builds are those where all traits/skills require user input and the ones at the lower end of the skill/risk spectrum are those builds where there's no real counter or weakness outside of them making a mistake. So that's pretty much holo/soulbeast/druid/condition mirage and while condition builds are your best bet against them they're certainly not going to go down without a fight to condition builds if they use their noggins.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Deadeye should lose perma-stealth aswell, I know some people would complain that a thief can pop in and kill them but it makes more sense for a glassy class than for a guard for example sword teleporting in and bursting u to 0 while having Ageis and protection up whole time lol

[Psycoprophet.8107]

All classes should have the tools if played skillfully to counter all other professions like guard has eagis, thief mobility and burst,necro debuffs and Condi damage or power if reaper etc each should have their own thing that’s effective but arenet given most of the classes mix bag of other professions tricks and some already had enough, it’s to a point where mesmers a better thief and guards a better warrior etc

[Psycoprophet.8107]

I’m a ranger main that uses the dirty Boonbeast build and I’m not nearly as skilled as most of u out there, I’ve been playing for 3 yrs but man their are great players out their and I’ve won some duels I shouldn’t have, do I want ranger toned down? Not if other classes wernt but if other classes were toned down to and some buffed I wouldn’t be upset about it. Yeah I’m a hypercrit but most use overturned builds or cheese as a way to counteract others builds and cheese lol