Vallun's Suggestions for Balance Changes for 2019

[Highlie.7641]

Inf strike range is 900 range already..

Return range is 1200 It's set like that for a reason counter play towards range weapons. The problem has never been inf strike (well maybe when it had infinite range) the problem is you can port through walls in Spvp. (good luck trying to get them to change that after this long though. we tried during the first few years remember)

 

Adding vulnerability to dagger auto's, would create thieves with the ability to stack 10+ vuln with d/d (Cnd and autos) with ease.

 

Improv is the problem. and it has been since they added it to the game. DS has synergy with trickster. removing it from the trick list is not the way to fix this. removing impov is the way to go. (not only would this fix DS but also dual rev steal, which is also problematic)

 

stealth on deadeye. Everyone agrees.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

Most of these changes are pretty spot on. Game would be in a much better spot if the balance team asked themselves what is fun to play against and what isn't.

 

One thing you missed ( Possibly because you play thief and can just boonrip it ) is the stability uptime on Soulbeast and Holosmith is currently way too high. This allows them to just pop their stab stacks and then spam their skills without any fear of being interrupted.

 

Another thing I should note since you spent little time on Revenant. You are mostly correct that Shiro/Glint should be ignored. Those two legends are what the class is largely built around and any attempts to screw with them balance wise often has poor results. However your suggestion to move the quickness from PT to IO would actually be a huge buff because IO does more damage overall. The main problem plaguing rev right now is honestly lack of viable build diversity. Buffing Mallyx / Jalis / Kalla / Maybe even Ventari too in some PvP-centric way would probably improve the matchups where rev can exist and do well. Because Rev doesn't get to choose their utilities directly like other classes, IMO it is only fair that each legend have something "good" on it that makes it situationally worth taking.

 

 

[apharma.3741]

> @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > >

> > > Firebrand already kind of struggles in ranked outside of tourney. If you nerf it much more you risk turning the entire meta into bruisery side node 1v1er builds and nothing else, no dedicated team fighters and no such thing as a dedicated support. Tempest needs to be brought up to FB's level.

> >

> > Yet FB being objectively better support than anything else isn't an issue? Sure stave off the nerfs/reworks till damage across the board has been toned down by a considerable margin but FB gets far too much from taking the line just from getting tomes.

>

> Well firebrand is one of the only 2 support specs that are PvP oriented. Tempest is garbage and should get access to Aoe stability (like stab on aura) and get some of it's previous nerfs reverted.

 

That would be fine except you're wrong. FB is also PvE orientated, do you think it's an accident that they have a mantra to give allies quickness and a trait to give quickness on aegis/stability and the count recharge on the heal mantra? Make no mistake FB was also a PvE support spec as much as it was a PvP support spec.

 

Tempest isn't garbage, did you watch Rom's HoT/Core only 2v2? Yeah guess what the winners were, tempest and reaper because tempest takes a dump on every other support that isn't FB when played as if you have something between your ears. The problem with tempest is that damage is so high that 100% prot and it's sustained healing don't mean anything while being inferior to FB. FB does so well because it can hard mitigate damage with resistance and a plethora of cleanses, against power aegis, prot and great rezzing skills while doing almost everything ele does.

 

The buff to monk runes was the cherry on the cake for them as they spam boons like crazy while tempest doesn't as much. You don't fix power creep by power creep, everyone likes to mention the whole "nerfs hurt twice as much as buffs" rubbish too. Yeah guess what? Buffing something to be better indirectly nerfs all other options as the style you like to play gets left behind but no-one likes to admit that or realise it's a contributory factor to people leaving the game.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Highlie.7641" said:

> stealth on deadeye. Everyone agrees.

 

it being changed i would agree. but he askes just for it to be removed as that.

the issue for the opponent currently is that he cannot interrupt it. the issue for the deadeye currently is that a dodge roll is a pretty long time for the opponent to land a burst / cc at the end of it, wich makes you very vulnerable in your first second(s) of stealth when you want to use it defensively, while it also takes too long pressure off your opponent with a clear animation before the next very obvious animation for a DJ making it even harder to land. i would prefer it being interruptable but faster, without moving place. but i would still like it to use endurance as cost for that skill. it would be more interactive as it could be interrupted and it would give deadeye a better option to utilize highground 'snipe spots' like on a pillar.

 

just removing it and relying on one in the chamber as he said it will mean that we indeed have to build up malice before we can stealth or use utilities, but our only unblockable attack is from stealth. therefor we would be much easier shut down by projectile hate/blocks, still not as bad as p/p due to superior range and DR but the viability would drop alot. an option to compensate this would be moving the unblockable from DJ to rifle 2, but i am sure many would prefer deadeye to stealth more frequent than an unblockable rifle 2.

 

you can make it interactive without just 'remove it' , thats why i said earlier he should propose actual changes and how the build played would look like with those in his oppinon, instead of just asking for removal. same with necro rez, he even said its not that good mostly aside from that one situation where its unfun, but he didnt propose a change to blood necros support to make it more fun, not just against but also playing it yourself.

[Classic Perception.2507]

Just nerf ele and the game is balanced.

[Elxdark.9702]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"Highlie.7641" said:

> > stealth on deadeye. Everyone agrees.

>

> it being changed i would agree. but he askes just for it to be removed as that.

> the issue for the opponent currently is that he cannot interrupt it. the issue for the deadeye currently is that a dodge roll is a pretty long time for the opponent to land a burst / cc at the end of it, wich makes you very vulnerable in your first second(s) of stealth when you want to use it defensively, while it also takes too long pressure off your opponent with a clear animation before the next very obvious animation for a DJ making it even harder to land. i would prefer it being interruptable but faster, without moving place. but i would still like it to use endurance as cost for that skill. it would be more interactive as it could be interrupted and it would give deadeye a better option to utilize highground 'snipe spots' like on a pillar.

>

> just removing it and relying on one in the chamber as he said it will mean that we indeed have to build up malice before we can stealth or use utilities, but our only unblockable attack is from stealth. therefor we would be much easier shut down by projectile hate/blocks, still not as bad as p/p due to superior range and DR but the viability would drop alot. an option to compensate this would be moving the unblockable from DJ to rifle 2, but i am sure many would prefer deadeye to stealth more frequent than an unblockable rifle 2.

>

> you can make it interactive without just 'remove it' , thats why i said earlier he should propose actual changes and how the build played would look like with those in his oppinon, instead of just asking for removal. same with necro rez, he even said its not that good mostly aside from that one situation where its unfun, but he didnt propose a change to blood necros support to make it more fun, not just against but also playing it yourself.

 

heres my change wvw warrior, remove stealth on dodge because it's cancer and it's not healthy for the game, put the old trait back and boom there you have stealth application and counterplay.

 

There's no need for "but if they remove stealth on dodge how is deadeye going to defend itself???" well let me tell you that with the old trait if you used kneel in combat you would get absolutely rekt and that's called punishment, right now every pressure going to you it's simply avoided by dodging x2.

Kneel got qol changes after the rework, it feels smoother to use and it doesn't feel like you're stuck while using it.

 

Remove stealth on dodge, get the old trait back.

[Vieux P.1238]

Well...Op's... that's an opinion...

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Elxdark.9702" said:

> > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > @"Highlie.7641" said:

> > > stealth on deadeye. Everyone agrees.

> >

> > it being changed i would agree. but he askes just for it to be removed as that.

> > the issue for the opponent currently is that he cannot interrupt it. the issue for the deadeye currently is that a dodge roll is a pretty long time for the opponent to land a burst / cc at the end of it, wich makes you very vulnerable in your first second(s) of stealth when you want to use it defensively, while it also takes too long pressure off your opponent with a clear animation before the next very obvious animation for a DJ making it even harder to land. i would prefer it being interruptable but faster, without moving place. but i would still like it to use endurance as cost for that skill. it would be more interactive as it could be interrupted and it would give deadeye a better option to utilize highground 'snipe spots' like on a pillar.

> >

> > just removing it and relying on one in the chamber as he said it will mean that we indeed have to build up malice before we can stealth or use utilities, but our only unblockable attack is from stealth. therefor we would be much easier shut down by projectile hate/blocks, still not as bad as p/p due to superior range and DR but the viability would drop alot. an option to compensate this would be moving the unblockable from DJ to rifle 2, but i am sure many would prefer deadeye to stealth more frequent than an unblockable rifle 2.

> >

> > you can make it interactive without just 'remove it' , thats why i said earlier he should propose actual changes and how the build played would look like with those in his oppinon, instead of just asking for removal. same with necro rez, he even said its not that good mostly aside from that one situation where its unfun, but he didnt propose a change to blood necros support to make it more fun, not just against but also playing it yourself.

>

> heres my change wvw warrior, remove stealth on dodge because it's cancer and it's not healthy for the game, put the old trait back and boom there you have stealth application and counterplay.

>

> There's no need for "but if they remove stealth on dodge how is deadeye going to defend itself???" well let me tell you that with the old trait if you used kneel in combat you would get absolutely rekt and that's called punishment, right now every pressure going to you it's simply avoided by dodging x2.

> Kneel got qol changes after the rework, it feels smoother to use and it doesn't feel like you're stuck while using it.

>

> Remove stealth on dodge, get the old trait back.

 

you didnt read what you quote right? i said i want it to be a skill faster than a dodge roll but interruptable without moving place. just like the old version was faster than a dodge roll but interruptable without moving place. i did perfectly fine with the old deadeye and it was pretty difficult to tell people that deadeye was not as bad as many did claim back then.

i mainly critsize about valluns video that he said to rely on the stolen skills only, wich means you would rely on building up your malice successfully even more. reverting the trait to the old one would be okeish for me, altho i still think it did feel a little clunky to kneel/unkneel for stealth. thats why i proposed a skill, interruptable etc. like the old trait, but i also did say i want to keep the endurance cost for the skill instead of the cooldown, its a little more flexible but its not 'free', while if i just gain a skill with cooldown i get the same stealth without any cost. so you can then use your endurance either for a dodge roll or for stealth, not both at the same time.

[Sampson.2403]

Vallun you didn't go into too much detail about why you think that the chaos mesmer traitline "should not work" in pvp.

[lodjur.1284]

> @"apharma.3741" said:

 

> That would be fine except you're wrong. FB is also PvE orientated, do you think it's an accident that they have a mantra to give allies quickness and a trait to give quickness on aegis/stability and the count recharge on the heal mantra? Make no mistake FB was also a PvE support spec as much as it was a PvP support spec.

 

First off firebrand is def not meta in pve nor has it been. Secondly I meant it as one of the two "real" support (healer) specs that are actual supports in a pvp setting as opposed to something like druid.

 

> Tempest isn't garbage, did you watch Rom's HoT/Core only 2v2? Yeah guess what the winners were, tempest and reaper because tempest takes a dump on every other support that isn't FB when played as if you have something between your ears. The problem with tempest is that damage is so high that 100% prot and it's sustained healing don't mean anything while being inferior to FB. FB does so well because it can hard mitigate damage with resistance and a plethora of cleanses, against power aegis, prot and great rezzing skills while doing almost everything ele does.

 

Did I watch some random tournament? Nope. But given that Tempest is the only pvp healer from hot it being used to fill that role is hardly surprising as it is literally the only PvP healer in HoT, I mean next in line would be jank like ventari or druid, IE not healers in a pvp setting. It doesn't change that it's terrible right now, if you would play support Tempest in ranked (or smallscale WvW for that matter) you'd be shooting yourself in the foot.

 

I am assuming such a tournament had some rules regarding class stacking or similar as well.

 

> The buff to monk runes was the cherry on the cake for them as they spam boons like crazy while tempest doesn't as much. You don't fix power creep by power creep, everyone likes to mention the whole "nerfs hurt twice as much as buffs" rubbish too. Yeah guess what? Buffing something to be better indirectly nerfs all other options as the style you like to play gets left behind but no-one likes to admit that or realise it's a contributory factor to people leaving the game.

 

Monk runes changed nothing. Tempest can keep up at least 5-6 stacks consistently, 10 while actually healing. The 4-5% during low intensity healing didn't change anything.

 

There's no way to nerf firebrand that makes it comparable to Tempest, the amount of utility it offers is so staggering that you'd have to nerf it to uselessness before it isn't a better choice on every single way. A healer not giving/having stab just doesn't work in 2018 and that's just the tip of the iceberg with Tempest.

 

 

[apharma.3741]

> @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > @"apharma.3741" said:

>

> > That would be fine except you're wrong. FB is also PvE orientated, do you think it's an accident that they have a mantra to give allies quickness and a trait to give quickness on aegis/stability and the count recharge on the heal mantra? Make no mistake FB was also a PvE support spec as much as it was a PvP support spec.

>

> First off firebrand is def not meta in pve nor has it been. Secondly I meant it as one of the two "real" support (healer) specs that are actual supports in a pvp setting as opposed to something like druid.

>

> > Tempest isn't garbage, did you watch Rom's HoT/Core only 2v2? Yeah guess what the winners were, tempest and reaper because tempest takes a dump on every other support that isn't FB when played as if you have something between your ears. The problem with tempest is that damage is so high that 100% prot and it's sustained healing don't mean anything while being inferior to FB. FB does so well because it can hard mitigate damage with resistance and a plethora of cleanses, against power aegis, prot and great rezzing skills while doing almost everything ele does.

>

> Did I watch some random tournament? Nope. But given that Tempest is the only pvp healer from hot it being used to fill that role is hardly surprising as it is literally the only PvP healer in HoT, I mean next in line would be jank like ventari or druid, IE not healers in a pvp setting. It doesn't change that it's terrible right now, if you would play support Tempest in ranked (or smallscale WvW for that matter) you'd be shooting yourself in the foot.

>

> I am assuming such a tournament had some rules regarding class stacking or similar as well.

>

> > The buff to monk runes was the cherry on the cake for them as they spam boons like crazy while tempest doesn't as much. You don't fix power creep by power creep, everyone likes to mention the whole "nerfs hurt twice as much as buffs" rubbish too. Yeah guess what? Buffing something to be better indirectly nerfs all other options as the style you like to play gets left behind but no-one likes to admit that or realise it's a contributory factor to people leaving the game.

>

> Monk runes changed nothing. Tempest can keep up at least 5-6 stacks consistently, 10 while actually healing. The 4-5% during low intensity healing didn't change anything.

>

> There's no way to nerf firebrand that makes it comparable to Tempest, the amount of utility it offers is so staggering that you'd have to nerf it to uselessness before it isn't a better choice on every single way. A healer not giving/having stab just doesn't work in 2018 and that's just the tip of the iceberg with Tempest.

>

>

 

Support isn't just defensive you know and while it's not Most Effective Tactic Available it is an option if not a competitor for the current default group.

https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/guardian/firebrand/support/

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Firebrand_-_Support_Healer

 

Maybe you should watch roms_hut on twitch and his tournament, he's won the GW2 world championship so most people think he's got a pretty good handle on what's good and not good.

 

Yeah tomes give far too much baseline and Firebrand needs redesigning. You can't buff everything to FB level and keep players, nearly everyone I knew that used to sink in 3-4 hours every single day left because of the power creep. Buffing tempest will be another reason a load of people leave with only cretin's remaining.

[bravan.3876]

> @"tinyreborn.1938" said:

> I'm going to break this down, because tired to see this lad playing counter (braindead build. bravan2k18) to mesmer and still cry about it all the time

 

What are you talking about? I'm multiclass player and even play condimirage too. That's why i think i'm one of the most objective persons in this forum full of biased mainclass x player. And often enough i flamed ppl for their narrowed overdoing mesmer hate that some ppl even accused me of being a mesmer main.

The difference is: Compared to you i know when i am carried by build. This game is 99% wannabe pro but in the end average at max skilled player on braindead builds think they are good. Simply because whole meta is made for low skilled casuals to feel like heroes even when being bad.

 

You are probably just another Condimirage without enough skill for Powermes and we never see you again when Condimes isn't that braindead anymore. Still the most broken stuff out there is Holo and Soulbeast and Coreguard for that it needs zero braincells to be played effective. FB support is still too strong.

 

That we see 100000000 nerf mesmer threads but barely any about the other classes is due to the fact that every low skilled and low iq boby can just log on these other classes and get carried themself during they still get rekt on Condimes when being bad. Because a Condimes is only broken when played at least on average skill lvl and you still need brain for portal plays and rotations to carry your team.

 

For todays balance patch i hope they nerf Holo into the ground (more cds on holoskills, more cd for going back into holomode, a bit less dmg on some skills and way less sustain or a lot less dmg and bit less sustain). Boonbeast needs nerfs too. I would love to see Guard gets deleted (ofc will never happen and is only to provoke some monkeys) so all the wannabe good bobies go back to hello kitty game what fits their skill and iq much more. (Hello forum ban!)

The most important stuff for mirage is at least double the cd from axe 3 and illusionary ambush (even though only noobs use illusionary ambush instead portal or blink). Chaosline and Inspiration were always the lines make mesmer easy and forgiving to play and that's still the case also both lines got nerfed several times already. Inspiration lately got buffed again. Condiambush skills (from clones mostly) could get a little less condiapplication. For DE: Stealth on dodge is probably from the same genius included stunbreak on dodge into the game. Both should get deleted. Give some complete reworked traits instead. After that take a look, warrior and weaver, as the remaining and untouched easy to play facetank builds, will probably be king then and will need some adjustments after, sadly we only get one big mostly wrong done balance patch and then need to live with the consequences for around 3 months...

 

[MrFoooster.8192]

bring back temporal enchanter trait !

[apharma.3741]

> @"bravan.3876" said:

> > @"tinyreborn.1938" said:

> > I'm going to break this down, because tired to see this lad playing counter (braindead build. bravan2k18) to mesmer and still cry about it all the time

>

> What are you talking about? I'm multiclass player and even play condimirage too. That's why i think i'm one of the most objective persons in this forum full of biased mainclass x player. And often enough i flamed ppl for their narrowed overdoing mesmer hate that some ppl even accused me of being a mesmer main.

> The difference is: Compared to you i know when i am carried by build. This game is 99% wanna pro but in the end average at max skilled player on braindead builds think they are good. Simply because whole meta is made for low skilled casuals to feel like heroes even when being bad.

>

> You are probably just another Condimirage without enough skill for Powermes and we never see you again when Condimes isn't that braindead anymore. Still the most broken stuff out there is Holo and Soulbeast and Coreguard for that it needs zero braincells to be played effective. FB support is still too strong.

>

> That we see 100000000 nerf mesmer threads but barely any about the other classes is due to the fact that every low skilled and low iq boby can just log on these other classes and get carried themself during they still get rekt on Condimes when being bad. Because a Condimes is only broken when played at least on average skill lvl and you still need brain for portal plays and rotations to carry your team.

>

> For todays balance patch i hope they nerf Holo into the ground (more cds on holoskills, more cd for going back into holomode, a bit less dmg on some skills and way less sustain or a lot less dmg and bit less sustain). Boonbeast needs nerfs too. I would love to see Guard gets deleted (ofc will never happen and is only to provoke some monkeys) so all the wannabe good bobies go back to hello kitty game what fits their skill and iq much more. (Hello forum ban!)

> The most important stuff for mirage is at least double the cd from axe 3 and illusionary ambush (even though only noobs use illusionary ambush instead portal or blink). Chaosline and Inspiration were always the lines make mesmer easy and forgiving to play and that's still the case also both lines got nerfed several times already. Inspiration lately got buffed again. Condiambush skills (from clones mostly) could get a little less condiapplication. For DE: Stealth on dodge is probably from the same genius included stunbreak on dodge into the game. Both should get deleted. Give some complete reworked traits instead. After that take a look, warrior and weaver, as the remaining and untouched easy to play facetank builds, will probably be king then and will need some adjustments after, sadly we only get one big mostly wrong done balance patch and then need to live with the consequences for around 3 months...

>

 

As someone who understands the meta a lot more than most you have a responsibility to not get banned on the forums and at least try to counteract the flood of new/not so well informed players. Mind you I think a lot are now looking elsewhere after PoF and the current state of PvP/WvW.

[lodjur.1284]

> @"apharma.3741" said:

> > @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > > @"apharma.3741" said:

> >

> > > That would be fine except you're wrong. FB is also PvE orientated, do you think it's an accident that they have a mantra to give allies quickness and a trait to give quickness on aegis/stability and the count recharge on the heal mantra? Make no mistake FB was also a PvE support spec as much as it was a PvP support spec.

> >

> > First off firebrand is def not meta in pve nor has it been. Secondly I meant it as one of the two "real" support (healer) specs that are actual supports in a pvp setting as opposed to something like druid.

> >

> > > Tempest isn't garbage, did you watch Rom's HoT/Core only 2v2? Yeah guess what the winners were, tempest and reaper because tempest takes a dump on every other support that isn't FB when played as if you have something between your ears. The problem with tempest is that damage is so high that 100% prot and it's sustained healing don't mean anything while being inferior to FB. FB does so well because it can hard mitigate damage with resistance and a plethora of cleanses, against power aegis, prot and great rezzing skills while doing almost everything ele does.

> >

> > Did I watch some random tournament? Nope. But given that Tempest is the only pvp healer from hot it being used to fill that role is hardly surprising as it is literally the only PvP healer in HoT, I mean next in line would be jank like ventari or druid, IE not healers in a pvp setting. It doesn't change that it's terrible right now, if you would play support Tempest in ranked (or smallscale WvW for that matter) you'd be shooting yourself in the foot.

> >

> > I am assuming such a tournament had some rules regarding class stacking or similar as well.

> >

> > > The buff to monk runes was the cherry on the cake for them as they spam boons like crazy while tempest doesn't as much. You don't fix power creep by power creep, everyone likes to mention the whole "nerfs hurt twice as much as buffs" rubbish too. Yeah guess what? Buffing something to be better indirectly nerfs all other options as the style you like to play gets left behind but no-one likes to admit that or realise it's a contributory factor to people leaving the game.

> >

> > Monk runes changed nothing. Tempest can keep up at least 5-6 stacks consistently, 10 while actually healing. The 4-5% during low intensity healing didn't change anything.

> >

> > There's no way to nerf firebrand that makes it comparable to Tempest, the amount of utility it offers is so staggering that you'd have to nerf it to uselessness before it isn't a better choice on every single way. A healer not giving/having stab just doesn't work in 2018 and that's just the tip of the iceberg with Tempest.

> >

> >

>

> Support isn't just defensive you know and while it's not Most Effective Tactic Available it is an option if not a competitor for the current default group.

> https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/guardian/firebrand/support/

> https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Firebrand_-_Support_Healer

>

> Maybe you should watch roms_hut on twitch and his tournament, he's won the GW2 world championship so most people think he's got a pretty good handle on what's good and not good.

>

> Yeah tomes give far too much baseline and Firebrand needs redesigning. You can't buff everything to FB level and keep players, nearly everyone I knew that used to sink in 3-4 hours every single day left because of the power creep. Buffing tempest will be another reason a load of people leave with only cretin's remaining.

 

Well when discussing firebrand in a pvp setting were talking a defensive support, you can't keep moving the goalpost.

 

I am not here for advertising sorry.

 

Well they have painted themselves in a corner by creating firebrand in the first place. Besides its not like giving access to some stab to ele would be massive powercreep. Do firebrand need some nerfs? Sure, but you can't nerf it enough to make Tempest competitive without making the class useless. You can however with a mix of buffs and nerfs make them competitive to each other.

 

 

[tinyreborn.1938]

> @"bravan.3876" said:

I didnt read that wall sadly , not interested :D

I meant he play core guardian (which you called braindead, and I agree ,because I played it too when its been popular but got bored of this autistic playstyle too quick) and always crying about mirage in every thread related to it . "MY ONLY PROBLEM IS THIS ,THAT" and list goes on. You just misunderstood me ,still not excuse to talk shit xD

"another condi mirage without enough skill for power build" I almost cried at that moment dud . As if it was ever good to be ever played in first place .

Never quit playing mesmer and once they eventually make mirage unplayable I would still play mesmer ,you can keep your assumption and calm your tits (if i wont quit game before that happen even)

[apharma.3741]

> @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > > @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > > > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > >

> > > > That would be fine except you're wrong. FB is also PvE orientated, do you think it's an accident that they have a mantra to give allies quickness and a trait to give quickness on aegis/stability and the count recharge on the heal mantra? Make no mistake FB was also a PvE support spec as much as it was a PvP support spec.

> > >

> > > First off firebrand is def not meta in pve nor has it been. Secondly I meant it as one of the two "real" support (healer) specs that are actual supports in a pvp setting as opposed to something like druid.

> > >

> > > > Tempest isn't garbage, did you watch Rom's HoT/Core only 2v2? Yeah guess what the winners were, tempest and reaper because tempest takes a dump on every other support that isn't FB when played as if you have something between your ears. The problem with tempest is that damage is so high that 100% prot and it's sustained healing don't mean anything while being inferior to FB. FB does so well because it can hard mitigate damage with resistance and a plethora of cleanses, against power aegis, prot and great rezzing skills while doing almost everything ele does.

> > >

> > > Did I watch some random tournament? Nope. But given that Tempest is the only pvp healer from hot it being used to fill that role is hardly surprising as it is literally the only PvP healer in HoT, I mean next in line would be jank like ventari or druid, IE not healers in a pvp setting. It doesn't change that it's terrible right now, if you would play support Tempest in ranked (or smallscale WvW for that matter) you'd be shooting yourself in the foot.

> > >

> > > I am assuming such a tournament had some rules regarding class stacking or similar as well.

> > >

> > > > The buff to monk runes was the cherry on the cake for them as they spam boons like crazy while tempest doesn't as much. You don't fix power creep by power creep, everyone likes to mention the whole "nerfs hurt twice as much as buffs" rubbish too. Yeah guess what? Buffing something to be better indirectly nerfs all other options as the style you like to play gets left behind but no-one likes to admit that or realise it's a contributory factor to people leaving the game.

> > >

> > > Monk runes changed nothing. Tempest can keep up at least 5-6 stacks consistently, 10 while actually healing. The 4-5% during low intensity healing didn't change anything.

> > >

> > > There's no way to nerf firebrand that makes it comparable to Tempest, the amount of utility it offers is so staggering that you'd have to nerf it to uselessness before it isn't a better choice on every single way. A healer not giving/having stab just doesn't work in 2018 and that's just the tip of the iceberg with Tempest.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Support isn't just defensive you know and while it's not Most Effective Tactic Available it is an option if not a competitor for the current default group.

> > https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/guardian/firebrand/support/

> > https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Firebrand_-_Support_Healer

> >

> > Maybe you should watch roms_hut on twitch and his tournament, he's won the GW2 world championship so most people think he's got a pretty good handle on what's good and not good.

> >

> > Yeah tomes give far too much baseline and Firebrand needs redesigning. You can't buff everything to FB level and keep players, nearly everyone I knew that used to sink in 3-4 hours every single day left because of the power creep. Buffing tempest will be another reason a load of people leave with only cretin's remaining.

>

> Well when discussing firebrand in a pvp setting were talking a defensive support, you can't keep moving the goalpost.

>

> I am not here for advertising sorry.

>

> Well they have painted themselves in a corner by creating firebrand in the first place. Besides its not like giving access to some stab to ele would be massive powercreep. Do firebrand need some nerfs? Sure, but you can't nerf it enough to make Tempest competitive without making the class useless. You can however with a mix of buffs and nerfs make them competitive to each other.

>

>

 

I'm not moving goal posts, you said FB was exclusively PvP support, I informed you that you were wrong, you persisted. You also seem to not understand or have run into more offensive versions of FB, I believe it's called harrier FB, you may want to look into it.

 

OK but as I say it shows the power of tempest as being the 2nd best support and it is light years ahead of other support even now.

 

FB needs a rework completely. Tomes while a nice idea cannot be given for free like they have. We will see if the massive increase in cool downs will sort out this mess.

[lodjur.1284]

> @"apharma.3741" said:

> > @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > > > @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > > > > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > > >

> > > > > That would be fine except you're wrong. FB is also PvE orientated, do you think it's an accident that they have a mantra to give allies quickness and a trait to give quickness on aegis/stability and the count recharge on the heal mantra? Make no mistake FB was also a PvE support spec as much as it was a PvP support spec.

> > > >

> > > > First off firebrand is def not meta in pve nor has it been. Secondly I meant it as one of the two "real" support (healer) specs that are actual supports in a pvp setting as opposed to something like druid.

> > > >

> > > > > Tempest isn't garbage, did you watch Rom's HoT/Core only 2v2? Yeah guess what the winners were, tempest and reaper because tempest takes a dump on every other support that isn't FB when played as if you have something between your ears. The problem with tempest is that damage is so high that 100% prot and it's sustained healing don't mean anything while being inferior to FB. FB does so well because it can hard mitigate damage with resistance and a plethora of cleanses, against power aegis, prot and great rezzing skills while doing almost everything ele does.

> > > >

> > > > Did I watch some random tournament? Nope. But given that Tempest is the only pvp healer from hot it being used to fill that role is hardly surprising as it is literally the only PvP healer in HoT, I mean next in line would be jank like ventari or druid, IE not healers in a pvp setting. It doesn't change that it's terrible right now, if you would play support Tempest in ranked (or smallscale WvW for that matter) you'd be shooting yourself in the foot.

> > > >

> > > > I am assuming such a tournament had some rules regarding class stacking or similar as well.

> > > >

> > > > > The buff to monk runes was the cherry on the cake for them as they spam boons like crazy while tempest doesn't as much. You don't fix power creep by power creep, everyone likes to mention the whole "nerfs hurt twice as much as buffs" rubbish too. Yeah guess what? Buffing something to be better indirectly nerfs all other options as the style you like to play gets left behind but no-one likes to admit that or realise it's a contributory factor to people leaving the game.

> > > >

> > > > Monk runes changed nothing. Tempest can keep up at least 5-6 stacks consistently, 10 while actually healing. The 4-5% during low intensity healing didn't change anything.

> > > >

> > > > There's no way to nerf firebrand that makes it comparable to Tempest, the amount of utility it offers is so staggering that you'd have to nerf it to uselessness before it isn't a better choice on every single way. A healer not giving/having stab just doesn't work in 2018 and that's just the tip of the iceberg with Tempest.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Support isn't just defensive you know and while it's not Most Effective Tactic Available it is an option if not a competitor for the current default group.

> > > https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/guardian/firebrand/support/

> > > https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Firebrand_-_Support_Healer

> > >

> > > Maybe you should watch roms_hut on twitch and his tournament, he's won the GW2 world championship so most people think he's got a pretty good handle on what's good and not good.

> > >

> > > Yeah tomes give far too much baseline and Firebrand needs redesigning. You can't buff everything to FB level and keep players, nearly everyone I knew that used to sink in 3-4 hours every single day left because of the power creep. Buffing tempest will be another reason a load of people leave with only cretin's remaining.

> >

> > Well when discussing firebrand in a pvp setting were talking a defensive support, you can't keep moving the goalpost.

> >

> > I am not here for advertising sorry.

> >

> > Well they have painted themselves in a corner by creating firebrand in the first place. Besides its not like giving access to some stab to ele would be massive powercreep. Do firebrand need some nerfs? Sure, but you can't nerf it enough to make Tempest competitive without making the class useless. You can however with a mix of buffs and nerfs make them competitive to each other.

> >

> >

>

> I'm not moving goal posts, you said FB was exclusively PvP support, I informed you that you were wrong, you persisted. You also seem to not understand or have run into more offensive versions of FB, I believe it's called harrier FB, you may want to look into it.

>

> OK but as I say it shows the power of tempest as being the 2nd best support and it is light years ahead of other support even now.

>

> FB needs a rework completely. Tomes while a nice idea cannot be given for free like they have. We will see if the massive increase in cool downs will sort out this mess.

 

PvP centric support simply means that it plays as a support in a pvp environment as opposed to druid.

 

It is the 2nd best pvp healer by virtue of being the only pvp healer that isn't firebrand. Being the best in a small tournament with arbitrary rules doesn't change how bad it is in the real game.

 

This nerf will change literally nothing except make firebrand a bit more annoying to play. We will still see 0 Tempests in any sanctioned competitive pvp environment.

[viquing.8254]

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> The only reason mesmer mains vehemently defended broken builds like the Chrono phantasm spam build (never died, had every boon in the game, and 1 shot multiple people just by spamming phantasms) and condi Mirage is because they'll be completely irrelevant again if they aren't playing builds that are completely overpowered and easy to play.

Damned, I though the only reason no-mesmers mains vehemently critisize mesmers since release was because they want to easy rollface everything with their full of 3 on 1 buttons, passives autoproc and op AOE, this while burning their evades randomly. Thanks for open my eyes.

> Oh, don't forget about 1 shot mantra mesmers that can do 20k+ damage from stealth before you can react. Those builds are the epitome of skill. Oh, and INB4

You talk about the 1 shot build that is actually a 6 skills combo with vulnerability on target prerequise and power boon prerequise on a target with no passive lifesaver ?

The summum of viability, sure. =)

 

 

 

 

[kito.1827]

no offense but srsly who cares what some random guy suggests randomly?

 

[Vallun.2071]

> @"Sampson.2403" said:

> Vallun you didn't go into too much detail about why you think that the chaos mesmer traitline "should not work" in pvp.

 

I thought I explained it pretty well. Survivability and burst damage and sustained damage are too broken together. Yea maybe removing the option for survivability isnt as good as making them choose between surviability and damage, but chaos has never been a healthy traitline, just like shadow arts on thief