Vallun's Suggestions for Balance Changes for 2019

[dDuff.3860]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"dDuff.3860" said:

> > "Remove stealth on dodge, period" — removing an only trait that gives deadeye viablity is even a bigger meme. But wait, you want to remove it and don't give anything instead?

> >

> > > @"dominik.9721" said:

> > > Like always good and especally unbiased overview/suggestions

> >

> >

>

> I think he suggested stealth on cantrips instead.

 

No, he said, use the trait for stolen items on cantrips, this trait in another tier and a terrible lackluster for improvisation trait, because no synergy.

 

[MrFoooster.8192]

make chaos unplayable in pvp ?

[viquing.8254]

> @"bravan.3876" said:

>Ofc condition dmg is a dot dmg. You hit your stuff one time and the dmg effect ticks over time. Even for confusion it is like that.

On a side note, It's easier to counter a 20 stacks confusion burst with a 4 sec duration than 10 confusion during 8 sec, with no condiclear.

 

> @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said :

>Mesmer has an insane amount of lockdown through Blinds, Daze and target breaks. Even evade and iFrames making your enemy unable to interact with you. This is kind of a null point.

Blinds are melee, insane daze is single target melee ( 5if traited.) 32 sec CD, target break is 2, evade uptime is bad compared to other perma vigor class.

 

>Vallun is one of the few veterans still playing this game. His knowledge of the game trumps most players.

Cool :

* Even veterans player can say bullshit.

* He is not alone.

 

> @"bravan.3876" said :

>Most condibuilds can permanently apply condis. No one can take enough condiremove except vs a burn guard. All other builds also have more than enough cover condis.

Actually most condibuilds = condimirage or scourge.

Why did you need condiremove when you can :

1) evade the condi attack. (talking about mirage, 3 axe, clone ambush, 3 clones F2, 3 scepter and torch skills aren't instants unblocable skills.)

2) if you fail your evade pop resistance or condiclear.

 

> @"Gaming Digi.9741" said :

>Condition builds ARE easier to play.

No, that's why you have only two class with it.

>Compared to the effort any Power based class places for an encounter, a Condition Based class can lay back and let its conditions do the work.

Okey, you have power class who do 7k+ with no set up and easy perma op boon, that even a penguin can play it, than you have power class with hard set up who can burst once every 12 sec with 60% chance of missing burst.

It has been a long time since every meta power build are in the first case.

>Let's be real here: can YOU, incisorr, as a Condition player, dodge all the abilities that give you Conditions while still applying pressure?

Dunno for him but : talking about mirage, 3 axe, clone ambush, 3 clones F2, 3 scepter and torch skills.

Dodging 4 skills is manageable especially when half can be brained because of clone IA(by los or oor.).

 

>Condition vs power: you must have been joking. You must have. Your basic heal on most classes heal direct damage once in an interval, which can yes be CCd, but if placed well, will nullify direct damage placed on you.

How a 10k heal on a 25 sec CD can nullify a 7k/hit power damage ?

 

>2: GW2 PvP has more than enough metabuilds who base their damage on DoT conditions (which confusion also is a part of since it deals damage over time the more you use your skills, which you NEED to use to cleanse it...).

Yes, 2 class over 9 who are based on condi is too much.

 

 

BTW is NA PvP that different from EU PvP ???

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"viquing.8254" said:

> > @"bravan.3876" said:

> >Ofc condition dmg is a dot dmg. You hit your stuff one time and the dmg effect ticks over time. Even for confusion it is like that.

> On a side note, It's easier to counter a 20 stacks confusion burst with a 4 sec duration than 10 confusion during 8 sec, with no condiclear.

>

> > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said :

> >Mesmer has an insane amount of lockdown through Blinds, Daze and target breaks. Even evade and iFrames making your enemy unable to interact with you. This is kind of a null point.

> Blinds are melee, insane daze is single target melee ( 5if traited.) 32 sec CD, target break is 2, evade uptime is bad compared to other perma vigor class.

>

> >Vallun is one of the few veterans still playing this game. His knowledge of the game trumps most players.

> Cool :

> * Even veterans player can say kitten.

> * He is not alone.

>

> > @"bravan.3876" said :

> >Most condibuilds can permanently apply condis. No one can take enough condiremove except vs a burn guard. All other builds also have more than enough cover condis.

> Actually most condibuilds = condimirage or scourge.

> Why did you need condiremove when you can :

> 1) evade the condi attack. (talking about mirage, 3 axe, clone ambush, 3 clones F2, 3 scepter and torch skills aren't instants unblocable skills.)

> 2) if you fail your evade pop resistance or condiclear.

>

> > @"Gaming Digi.9741" said :

> >Condition builds ARE easier to play.

> No, that's why you have only two class with it.

> >Compared to the effort any Power based class places for an encounter, a Condition Based class can lay back and let its conditions do the work.

> Okey, you have power class who do 7k+ with no set up and easy perma op boon, that even a penguin can play it, than you have power class with hard set up who can burst once every 12 sec with 60% chance of missing burst.

> It has been a long time since every meta power build are in the first case.

> >Let's be real here: can YOU, incisorr, as a Condition player, dodge all the abilities that give you Conditions while still applying pressure?

> Dunno for him but : talking about mirage, 3 axe, clone ambush, 3 clones F2, 3 scepter and torch skills.

> Dodging 4 skills is manageable especially when half can be brained because of clone IA(by los or oor.).

>

> >Condition vs power: you must have been joking. You must have. Your basic heal on most classes heal direct damage once in an interval, which can yes be CCd, but if placed well, will nullify direct damage placed on you.

> How a 10k heal on a 25 sec CD can nullify a 7k/hit power damage ?

>

> >2: GW2 PvP has more than enough metabuilds who base their damage on DoT conditions (which confusion also is a part of since it deals damage over time the more you use your skills, which you NEED to use to cleanse it...).

> Yes, 2 class over 9 who are based on condi is too much.

>

>

> BTW is NA PvP that different from EU PvP ???

 

And reapers have over taken scourge in ranked. At this point it's mostly just Mirages.

[dominik.9721]

All those random mirage mains who had ZERO presence druing ESL times coming out of their caves, defending their class and thinking they are relevant now LMFAO

 

There is a reason you guys have been irrelevant for like 5 years, showing up with mirage now

 

[Jaka.3182]

Remove pof2win specs and game is balanced. (apart from radiant hammer/gs guard).

 

On more serious note... nerf survavibility/escape capabilities. As DH or core ranger I can not kill any pof2win specs if they decide to run. Sbreaker is somehow faster even thou i have perma swiftness (class that can 3-4 hit you down is also faster...?), sbeast also outrun me, de stealths, mirage... lol, holo stealths/invuln.

Dont get me wrong, dh is ok-ish and I can compete with meta but not when it comes to running. It is so broken and in plat, when I peak in... everybody runs. And this is where we are headed. Pvp became burst or run. Actual fighting time is going down and running and hiding time is going up, pvp now consist more and more on burst or hide/run etc.

I actually dont want to reach plat because in gold there is less running and more fighting.

And each balance update give us more and more quickness, super speed etc... runwars2

[viquing.8254]

> @"dominik.9721" said:

> All those random mirage mains who had ZERO presence druing ESL times coming out of their caves, defending their class and thinking they are relevant now LMFAO

>

> There is a reason you guys where irrelevant for like 5 years, showing up with mirage now

>

 

1) Yeah I was WvW main player during ESL because PvP community was too much toxic, it's 100% assumed, a problem with that ?

2) Because you with the amount of rage chats you produce in game think you are more relevant ?

 

[dominik.9721]

> @"viquing.8254" said:

> > @"dominik.9721" said:

> > All those random mirage mains who had ZERO presence druing ESL times coming out of their caves, defending their class and thinking they are relevant now LMFAO

> >

> > There is a reason you guys where irrelevant for like 5 years, showing up with mirage now

> >

>

> 1) Yeah I was WvW main player during ESL because PvP community was too much toxic, it's 100% assumed, a problem with that ?

> 2) Because you with the amount of rage chats you produce in game think you are more relevant ?

>

 

I don't care about relevance now since the game itself with it's PvP is not relevant anymore.

At least I was relevant back then when top tier players did actually care and played for money.

 

And guess what you alrdy have played thousand of PvP games in que during those times: you played scepter mesmer 24/7 and were pretty much on the same lvl like sile*cia on thief.

 

But nice try.

[viquing.8254]

I started PvP when they remove the 5 teamplayer vs soloPlayer concept which were if I'm right during season 5 (23 december 2016.).

And it was more for legendary backpacks and gold for WvW uses than for PvP hype.

 

During HoT I was playing a chronotank exotic build which considering the rating performance of other mes was not that bad. I play scepter in WvW roam since beginning and in PvP since PoF but nice try, yes.

And I prefer people who play PvP for fun than for money.

[Tiah.3091]

Agree with the OP on most points.

On Mirage: I don't really care about nerfing Chaos traitline (as the ONLY remaining source of vigor, rofl). And I don't think it would affect a lot of people either.

But the rant about pistol doing "too much damage"?

That is weird, to say the least.

 

The only mirage weapon worth ranting about is, probably, the axe. Or well.. not even the axe itself -- it's doing a lot of damage, but it's kinda balanced by being melee range, as Vallun said himself.

 

**What he did miss, however, is that Axe-3 is a legit TARGET BREAK with EIGHT SECONDS COOLDOWN. AND 0.75 s of evade frames. AND very strong condi application. AND decent power damage**

 

Isn't it too much to have on a single ability with such short cooldown? Remove target break on cast, and condi mirage will be 100% fine.

[Gaming Digi.9741]

> @"viquing.8254" said:

> > @"bravan.3876" said:

> >Ofc condition dmg is a dot dmg. You hit your stuff one time and the dmg effect ticks over time. Even for confusion it is like that.

> On a side note, It's easier to counter a 20 stacks confusion burst with a 4 sec duration than 10 confusion during 8 sec, with no condiclear.

>

> > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said :

> >Mesmer has an insane amount of lockdown through Blinds, Daze and target breaks. Even evade and iFrames making your enemy unable to interact with you. This is kind of a null point.

> Blinds are melee, insane daze is single target melee ( 5if traited.) 32 sec CD, target break is 2, evade uptime is bad compared to other perma vigor class.

>

> >Vallun is one of the few veterans still playing this game. His knowledge of the game trumps most players.

> Cool :

> * Even veterans player can say kitten.

> * He is not alone.

>

> > @"bravan.3876" said :

> >Most condibuilds can permanently apply condis. No one can take enough condiremove except vs a burn guard. All other builds also have more than enough cover condis.

> Actually most condibuilds = condimirage or scourge.

> Why did you need condiremove when you can :

> 1) evade the condi attack. (talking about mirage, 3 axe, clone ambush, 3 clones F2, 3 scepter and torch skills aren't instants unblocable skills.)

> 2) if you fail your evade pop resistance or condiclear.

>

> > @"Gaming Digi.9741" said :

> >Condition builds ARE easier to play.

> No, that's why you have only two class with it.

> >Compared to the effort any Power based class places for an encounter, a Condition Based class can lay back and let its conditions do the work.

> Okey, you have power class who do 7k+ with no set up and easy perma op boon, that even a penguin can play it, than you have power class with hard set up who can burst once every 12 sec with 60% chance of missing burst.

> It has been a long time since every meta power build are in the first case.

> >Let's be real here: can YOU, incisorr, as a Condition player, dodge all the abilities that give you Conditions while still applying pressure?

> Dunno for him but : talking about mirage, 3 axe, clone ambush, 3 clones F2, 3 scepter and torch skills.

> Dodging 4 skills is manageable especially when half can be brained because of clone IA(by los or oor.).

>

> >Condition vs power: you must have been joking. You must have. Your basic heal on most classes heal direct damage once in an interval, which can yes be CCd, but if placed well, will nullify direct damage placed on you.

> How a 10k heal on a 25 sec CD can nullify a 7k/hit power damage ?

>

> >2: GW2 PvP has more than enough metabuilds who base their damage on DoT conditions (which confusion also is a part of since it deals damage over time the more you use your skills, which you NEED to use to cleanse it...).

> Yes, 2 class over 9 who are based on condi is too much.

>

>

> BTW is NA PvP that different from EU PvP ???

 

I would diminish the quote to only what I found relevant but I can't since on phone. 4 skills that can be evaded : yes, but you cannot evade four skills that are chained well. As i said, player level make for an easier play on condition compared to power since conditions are DoT, thus making them relevant over time. And to be honest, you cannot always cleanse 5+ condis when you have confusion and torment up without losing half of your health. As a side note, torch skills count as 2, scepter 3 and ambush count as 2, adding to all the rest that is 7 skills that are manageable to dodge on their own. Don't get me started as to how, paired, they get deadly and impossible to evade all due to game mechanic restriction. Please don't say Cobdi Mirage needs to be buffed... That is what you are hinting towards.

 

It's more like 3 out of 9 : Curse Scourge and blood Scourge are different in their usage, add to that Carrion Ineptitude and condition sage (the chaos variant) and that's 4/10, which is almost half (almost) that are meta builds on condition based damage. I may be wrong on my maths though.

 

As for skills applying pressure through condis: there are waaaaaaaaay more than only 4 skills to dodge. Even the autoattack on staff, paired with 2 to 3 clones, gets very strong through wide condi stacking.

 

As for the op perma boon, I assume you are talking about boonbeast and Holosmith with 3 elixirs. They are broken and should be nerfed since they have to much of everything. Thank you for bringing that up.

 

I never played EU PvP since I need my reaction time, so I ca't comment on your question ^^ But as WP in his GotD said: "The only difference between eU and NA pvp is the amount of players in the queue time. I would even say EU gets worse in downtime." Slightly alterred as my memory would let me remember. He went on a rant about that in one of his latest (and yes, Wooden potatoe I believe is relevant, since his mechanical skill AND game knowledge are both rather high, even between veterans. Just like Vallun.)

[Gaming Digi.9741]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"viquing.8254" said:

> > > @"bravan.3876" said:

> > >Ofc condition dmg is a dot dmg. You hit your stuff one time and the dmg effect ticks over time. Even for confusion it is like that.

> > On a side note, It's easier to counter a 20 stacks confusion burst with a 4 sec duration than 10 confusion during 8 sec, with no condiclear.

> >

> > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said :

> > >Mesmer has an insane amount of lockdown through Blinds, Daze and target breaks. Even evade and iFrames making your enemy unable to interact with you. This is kind of a null point.

> > Blinds are melee, insane daze is single target melee ( 5if traited.) 32 sec CD, target break is 2, evade uptime is bad compared to other perma vigor class.

> >

> > >Vallun is one of the few veterans still playing this game. His knowledge of the game trumps most players.

> > Cool :

> > * Even veterans player can say kitten.

> > * He is not alone.

> >

> > > @"bravan.3876" said :

> > >Most condibuilds can permanently apply condis. No one can take enough condiremove except vs a burn guard. All other builds also have more than enough cover condis.

> > Actually most condibuilds = condimirage or scourge.

> > Why did you need condiremove when you can :

> > 1) evade the condi attack. (talking about mirage, 3 axe, clone ambush, 3 clones F2, 3 scepter and torch skills aren't instants unblocable skills.)

> > 2) if you fail your evade pop resistance or condiclear.

> >

> > > @"Gaming Digi.9741" said :

> > >Condition builds ARE easier to play.

> > No, that's why you have only two class with it.

> > >Compared to the effort any Power based class places for an encounter, a Condition Based class can lay back and let its conditions do the work.

> > Okey, you have power class who do 7k+ with no set up and easy perma op boon, that even a penguin can play it, than you have power class with hard set up who can burst once every 12 sec with 60% chance of missing burst.

> > It has been a long time since every meta power build are in the first case.

> > >Let's be real here: can YOU, incisorr, as a Condition player, dodge all the abilities that give you Conditions while still applying pressure?

> > Dunno for him but : talking about mirage, 3 axe, clone ambush, 3 clones F2, 3 scepter and torch skills.

> > Dodging 4 skills is manageable especially when half can be brained because of clone IA(by los or oor.).

> >

> > >Condition vs power: you must have been joking. You must have. Your basic heal on most classes heal direct damage once in an interval, which can yes be CCd, but if placed well, will nullify direct damage placed on you.

> > How a 10k heal on a 25 sec CD can nullify a 7k/hit power damage ?

> >

> > >2: GW2 PvP has more than enough metabuilds who base their damage on DoT conditions (which confusion also is a part of since it deals damage over time the more you use your skills, which you NEED to use to cleanse it...).

> > Yes, 2 class over 9 who are based on condi is too much.

> >

> >

> > BTW is NA PvP that different from EU PvP ???

>

> And reapers have over taken scourge in ranked. At this point it's mostly just Mirages.

 

Let me just ask, at what rating in ranked are you playing? In g3 and higher, scpurges have come back. In most matches I see at least 1 in teams, sometimes two PER team. Reaper, on the other hand, are present every second other game. What non-sense did you just say? Or is it me that misinterpretted what you said?

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"Gaming Digi.9741" said:

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > @"viquing.8254" said:

> > > > @"bravan.3876" said:

> > > >Ofc condition dmg is a dot dmg. You hit your stuff one time and the dmg effect ticks over time. Even for confusion it is like that.

> > > On a side note, It's easier to counter a 20 stacks confusion burst with a 4 sec duration than 10 confusion during 8 sec, with no condiclear.

> > >

> > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said :

> > > >Mesmer has an insane amount of lockdown through Blinds, Daze and target breaks. Even evade and iFrames making your enemy unable to interact with you. This is kind of a null point.

> > > Blinds are melee, insane daze is single target melee ( 5if traited.) 32 sec CD, target break is 2, evade uptime is bad compared to other perma vigor class.

> > >

> > > >Vallun is one of the few veterans still playing this game. His knowledge of the game trumps most players.

> > > Cool :

> > > * Even veterans player can say kitten.

> > > * He is not alone.

> > >

> > > > @"bravan.3876" said :

> > > >Most condibuilds can permanently apply condis. No one can take enough condiremove except vs a burn guard. All other builds also have more than enough cover condis.

> > > Actually most condibuilds = condimirage or scourge.

> > > Why did you need condiremove when you can :

> > > 1) evade the condi attack. (talking about mirage, 3 axe, clone ambush, 3 clones F2, 3 scepter and torch skills aren't instants unblocable skills.)

> > > 2) if you fail your evade pop resistance or condiclear.

> > >

> > > > @"Gaming Digi.9741" said :

> > > >Condition builds ARE easier to play.

> > > No, that's why you have only two class with it.

> > > >Compared to the effort any Power based class places for an encounter, a Condition Based class can lay back and let its conditions do the work.

> > > Okey, you have power class who do 7k+ with no set up and easy perma op boon, that even a penguin can play it, than you have power class with hard set up who can burst once every 12 sec with 60% chance of missing burst.

> > > It has been a long time since every meta power build are in the first case.

> > > >Let's be real here: can YOU, incisorr, as a Condition player, dodge all the abilities that give you Conditions while still applying pressure?

> > > Dunno for him but : talking about mirage, 3 axe, clone ambush, 3 clones F2, 3 scepter and torch skills.

> > > Dodging 4 skills is manageable especially when half can be brained because of clone IA(by los or oor.).

> > >

> > > >Condition vs power: you must have been joking. You must have. Your basic heal on most classes heal direct damage once in an interval, which can yes be CCd, but if placed well, will nullify direct damage placed on you.

> > > How a 10k heal on a 25 sec CD can nullify a 7k/hit power damage ?

> > >

> > > >2: GW2 PvP has more than enough metabuilds who base their damage on DoT conditions (which confusion also is a part of since it deals damage over time the more you use your skills, which you NEED to use to cleanse it...).

> > > Yes, 2 class over 9 who are based on condi is too much.

> > >

> > >

> > > BTW is NA PvP that different from EU PvP ???

> >

> > And reapers have over taken scourge in ranked. At this point it's mostly just Mirages.

>

> Let me just ask, at what rating in ranked are you playing? In g3 and higher, scpurges have come back. In most matches I see at least 1 in teams, sometimes two PER team. Reaper, on the other hand, are present every second other game. What non-sense did you just say? Or is it me that misinterpretted what you said?

 

I tend to hover around Mid P1-Mid P2. Scourges are still in matches, but reapers are noticeably more common. Even Anet Ben mentioned Reaper had one of the highest participation and win ratios of last season.

[Dadnir.5038]

Thief: Fair point for sword range and _dagger's storm_ interaction with _improvisation_. Imo healing skills and elite skills shouldn't be affected by the trait.

Ranger: Not sure weakness on axe 3 is gamebreaking enough to warrant a nerf. Maybe bothersome for power spec but that's all.

Engineer: Not sure any of the things pointed out were relevant, Engineers always had that much defense and it wasn't an issue in any way.

Warrior: Agree that rampage on 90s cool down isn't wise balance wise. Best thing that could happen to the game would be to remove transform elite skills and replace them by regular skills.

Revenant: Seem balanced for you even if it also seem to bug you.

Guardian: So standardize all rallying skills to a 3 seconds cast time?

Necromancer: Fair point on axe 2. Blood magic though... If it's nerfed, you'll just see other professions spec for the same result or even better. Not sure it's a great idea to nerf it on necro when there is worse hiding behind.

Mesmer: Not sure chaos is the main offender of the mesmer.

Elementalist: I just lol'd at what you suggested. "weaver have to much evade, we need windows of opportunity to deal damage to them": This sentence may even get the palm of the irony when the very first issue of elementalists in PvP (all spec) is their inability to create windows of opportunity for themself. There is much work to do on the elementalist but none of what you said would make them better in PvP if anything it would make a majority of the elementalist even more bitter, forcing them into a support gameplay that they are sick of since HoT.

 

Weakness/slow hate made my day.

 

All in all it very much look like the analysis of somebody that play thief power builds and is good at it. Something that the gameplay behind your analysis seem to confort. Your suggestion show that you like fast paced combat with clear start and clear end. You do not like to see your burst reduced or nullified by anything else than a dodge and find horrifying that what you worked for (down) can be undone by ralying skills.

 

So, while some points are good and even intelligent, some other greatly lack in foresight and come from a terribly biased point of view that do not take into account gameplay diversity in PvP.

[Gaming Digi.9741]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"Gaming Digi.9741" said:

> > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > @"viquing.8254" said:

> > > > > @"bravan.3876" said:

> > > > >Ofc condition dmg is a dot dmg. You hit your stuff one time and the dmg effect ticks over time. Even for confusion it is like that.

> > > > On a side note, It's easier to counter a 20 stacks confusion burst with a 4 sec duration than 10 confusion during 8 sec, with no condiclear.

> > > >

> > > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said :

> > > > >Mesmer has an insane amount of lockdown through Blinds, Daze and target breaks. Even evade and iFrames making your enemy unable to interact with you. This is kind of a null point.

> > > > Blinds are melee, insane daze is single target melee ( 5if traited.) 32 sec CD, target break is 2, evade uptime is bad compared to other perma vigor class.

> > > >

> > > > >Vallun is one of the few veterans still playing this game. His knowledge of the game trumps most players.

> > > > Cool :

> > > > * Even veterans player can say kitten.

> > > > * He is not alone.

> > > >

> > > > > @"bravan.3876" said :

> > > > >Most condibuilds can permanently apply condis. No one can take enough condiremove except vs a burn guard. All other builds also have more than enough cover condis.

> > > > Actually most condibuilds = condimirage or scourge.

> > > > Why did you need condiremove when you can :

> > > > 1) evade the condi attack. (talking about mirage, 3 axe, clone ambush, 3 clones F2, 3 scepter and torch skills aren't instants unblocable skills.)

> > > > 2) if you fail your evade pop resistance or condiclear.

> > > >

> > > > > @"Gaming Digi.9741" said :

> > > > >Condition builds ARE easier to play.

> > > > No, that's why you have only two class with it.

> > > > >Compared to the effort any Power based class places for an encounter, a Condition Based class can lay back and let its conditions do the work.

> > > > Okey, you have power class who do 7k+ with no set up and easy perma op boon, that even a penguin can play it, than you have power class with hard set up who can burst once every 12 sec with 60% chance of missing burst.

> > > > It has been a long time since every meta power build are in the first case.

> > > > >Let's be real here: can YOU, incisorr, as a Condition player, dodge all the abilities that give you Conditions while still applying pressure?

> > > > Dunno for him but : talking about mirage, 3 axe, clone ambush, 3 clones F2, 3 scepter and torch skills.

> > > > Dodging 4 skills is manageable especially when half can be brained because of clone IA(by los or oor.).

> > > >

> > > > >Condition vs power: you must have been joking. You must have. Your basic heal on most classes heal direct damage once in an interval, which can yes be CCd, but if placed well, will nullify direct damage placed on you.

> > > > How a 10k heal on a 25 sec CD can nullify a 7k/hit power damage ?

> > > >

> > > > >2: GW2 PvP has more than enough metabuilds who base their damage on DoT conditions (which confusion also is a part of since it deals damage over time the more you use your skills, which you NEED to use to cleanse it...).

> > > > Yes, 2 class over 9 who are based on condi is too much.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > BTW is NA PvP that different from EU PvP ???

> > >

> > > And reapers have over taken scourge in ranked. At this point it's mostly just Mirages.

> >

> > Let me just ask, at what rating in ranked are you playing? In g3 and higher, scpurges have come back. In most matches I see at least 1 in teams, sometimes two PER team. Reaper, on the other hand, are present every second other game. What non-sense did you just say? Or is it me that misinterpretted what you said?

>

> I tend to hover around Mid P1-Mid P2. Scourges are still in matches, but reapers are noticeably more common. Even Anet Ben mentioned Reaper had one of the highest participation and win ratios of last season.

 

Last seaskn indeed. They were everywhere and were the necro you wanted. In current season though, a plat player would know that scourge has betterpotential through all the utility it has, and also know that they are in overabundance. Or i may be wrong and my past 50 matches all have been lies. I'm jokinf around on that, but Scourges are, I believe, way more popular than reaper as of this season.

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"Gaming Digi.9741" said:

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > @"Gaming Digi.9741" said:

> > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > > @"viquing.8254" said:

> > > > > > @"bravan.3876" said:

> > > > > >Ofc condition dmg is a dot dmg. You hit your stuff one time and the dmg effect ticks over time. Even for confusion it is like that.

> > > > > On a side note, It's easier to counter a 20 stacks confusion burst with a 4 sec duration than 10 confusion during 8 sec, with no condiclear.

> > > > >

> > > > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said :

> > > > > >Mesmer has an insane amount of lockdown through Blinds, Daze and target breaks. Even evade and iFrames making your enemy unable to interact with you. This is kind of a null point.

> > > > > Blinds are melee, insane daze is single target melee ( 5if traited.) 32 sec CD, target break is 2, evade uptime is bad compared to other perma vigor class.

> > > > >

> > > > > >Vallun is one of the few veterans still playing this game. His knowledge of the game trumps most players.

> > > > > Cool :

> > > > > * Even veterans player can say kitten.

> > > > > * He is not alone.

> > > > >

> > > > > > @"bravan.3876" said :

> > > > > >Most condibuilds can permanently apply condis. No one can take enough condiremove except vs a burn guard. All other builds also have more than enough cover condis.

> > > > > Actually most condibuilds = condimirage or scourge.

> > > > > Why did you need condiremove when you can :

> > > > > 1) evade the condi attack. (talking about mirage, 3 axe, clone ambush, 3 clones F2, 3 scepter and torch skills aren't instants unblocable skills.)

> > > > > 2) if you fail your evade pop resistance or condiclear.

> > > > >

> > > > > > @"Gaming Digi.9741" said :

> > > > > >Condition builds ARE easier to play.

> > > > > No, that's why you have only two class with it.

> > > > > >Compared to the effort any Power based class places for an encounter, a Condition Based class can lay back and let its conditions do the work.

> > > > > Okey, you have power class who do 7k+ with no set up and easy perma op boon, that even a penguin can play it, than you have power class with hard set up who can burst once every 12 sec with 60% chance of missing burst.

> > > > > It has been a long time since every meta power build are in the first case.

> > > > > >Let's be real here: can YOU, incisorr, as a Condition player, dodge all the abilities that give you Conditions while still applying pressure?

> > > > > Dunno for him but : talking about mirage, 3 axe, clone ambush, 3 clones F2, 3 scepter and torch skills.

> > > > > Dodging 4 skills is manageable especially when half can be brained because of clone IA(by los or oor.).

> > > > >

> > > > > >Condition vs power: you must have been joking. You must have. Your basic heal on most classes heal direct damage once in an interval, which can yes be CCd, but if placed well, will nullify direct damage placed on you.

> > > > > How a 10k heal on a 25 sec CD can nullify a 7k/hit power damage ?

> > > > >

> > > > > >2: GW2 PvP has more than enough metabuilds who base their damage on DoT conditions (which confusion also is a part of since it deals damage over time the more you use your skills, which you NEED to use to cleanse it...).

> > > > > Yes, 2 class over 9 who are based on condi is too much.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > BTW is NA PvP that different from EU PvP ???

> > > >

> > > > And reapers have over taken scourge in ranked. At this point it's mostly just Mirages.

> > >

> > > Let me just ask, at what rating in ranked are you playing? In g3 and higher, scpurges have come back. In most matches I see at least 1 in teams, sometimes two PER team. Reaper, on the other hand, are present every second other game. What non-sense did you just say? Or is it me that misinterpretted what you said?

> >

> > I tend to hover around Mid P1-Mid P2. Scourges are still in matches, but reapers are noticeably more common. Even Anet Ben mentioned Reaper had one of the highest participation and win ratios of last season.

>

> Last seaskn indeed. They were everywhere and were the necro you wanted. In current season though, a plat player would know that scourge has betterpotential through all the utility it has, and also know that they are in overabundance. Or i may be wrong and my past 50 matches all have been lies. I'm jokinf around on that, but Scourges are, I believe, way more popular than reaper as of this season.

 

Scourge has more potential, but needs a firebrand to really unlock that potential. Reaper is a bit more self sufficient in that regard which is why it's generally doing so well in ranked where lots of players fly solo. Scourge is fairly popular, but Reaper is at least just as popular if not more.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Seems like opening threads with personal opinion on balance changes is meta now...

Third thread of the kind in one week. I mean why the heck don't you all post on one thread?

 

Also nerfing chaos. lul

[apharma.3741]

Thief:

Infiltrators strike - a good reason to try the change.

 

Vuln on dagger auto - no put it on heartseeker if needed but DP is already very annoying with it's poison + weakness application vs anyone with limited cleanses so I'd rather not see another cover condi.

 

Dagger storm - I don't agree I think reducing the duration and damage a little might be a good idea to 3s and remove 1-2 of the attacks.

 

DE- yeah get rid of stealth on dodge agreed but DE needs a lot of work in general.

 

Ranger:

Agreed they've been power creeping ranger outside of druid skills for a few years, THEY ARE DOING THIS TO OTHER CLASSES TOO!

 

Winter's Bite - I'd also say reduce the duration of the weakness to 3-5s, ranger already poops cripple and weakness in traits. When you hit with winter's bite it adds a buff to the pet like a poison etc so if the pet is dodged it consumes the buff/stack.

 

Ectoplasm - I'd rather they nerfed ectoplasm because it's far too strong objectively, It's not necessary to have that many.

 

Muddy terrain - lesser muddy terrain, no slow and lower pulses. Make ICD same as the skill muddy terrain.

 

Troll Ungent - cast is OK imo, 3/4s is OK

 

Sick em - Agreed 20% for player.

 

I'd also up the cool downs on axe 2 and 3 by 2s.

 

Engineer:

Elixir U + toss - Agreed remove perma quickness, change the boons I would say make one give alacrity, the other resistance maybe?

 

Elixir S - remove the passive and put a new trait in there agreed double elixir S isn't good to play against. Maybe new trait instead heals on elixir use to fit with alchemy.

 

Heat Therapy - Yes it heals for too much, I don't see a way to keep it as a heal and make it more interactive or harder to get so I would nerf the healing.

 

HGH + Mechanised deployment: This allows CDR that's far too much for toss elixirs and tool belt skills in general that belong to a category. I think they should change mechanised deployment to only affect tool belt skills that do not have a CDR trait but increase it a bit.

 

Warrior:

Rampage: I don't mind either way but the CD increase should be reflected in increasing elixir X CD too.

 

Shake it off: That's power creep for you, it was buffed because it couldn't keep up with the power creep and spamfiesta. Only thing I can see needing doing is reducing cleanses down to 4/3 while reducing condition spam across classes.

 

Revenant:

I don't agree. I think it still stacks might (just like some other classes) far too easily solo so would like that toning down to reduce it's damage. It isn't bad in the current meta but I think damage atm is far too high.

 

Guardian:

Core Guardian - It does way too much damage. I think a good target is righteous instincts and reduce the crit chance to 20% so they have to playy something with crit chance again.

 

Ray of Judgement - I'd lower the damage a fair bit and as you say add an immob to the first strike.

 

Signet of Mercy - I don't agree, look at all the other rez skills in the game with long CDs and long casts, they're mostly pointless as a stomp or cleave will kill before the rez. You can move the downed and CC the guard.

 

FB - It has too much added baseline from tomes and eclipses everything in support. I don't see a way to balance it with numbers unless you increase the cast time to get tomes like it was in beta. I think it needs taking back to redesign at a fundamental level. Yes I know in the meta it's balanced but the meta is insanely power creeped.

 

Necromancer:

Ritual of Life - I don't think the trait is the issue. It's annoying don't get me wrong but I think it's the synergy between it and Transfusion that's the issue. Maybe reduce how much healing power affects revive?

 

Ghastly Claws - Only source of LF generation so I'd either increase CD and add LF generation elsewhere or reduce the damage. I'd say reduce damage imo.

 

Scourge - See notes on torment. Maybe reduce the burning by 1s but I think torment is the bigger issue.

 

Mesmer:

The damage is the problem not chaos. Nerf chaos and you deny any play style that isn't burst, that you're advocating making an entire line completely useless is a little concerning.

 

Pistol - It's not actually that good, bleed is the worst condi there is and it does ~2000 damage in bleeds and then maybe another 1k in power. I'd suggest increasing the cast on the phantasm so 1 dodge = all or 90% damage avoided.

 

Axe - This is OK? TF are you smoking? You know that the ambush is ranged right? The axe ambush and axes of symmetry do too many condition stacks from the player and should be halved.

 

Elementalist:

For Tempest to be viable damage and FB need massive nerfs. Might trait on aura was removed, they now cleanse and it's still in fire line. Tempest is the 2nd best support bar none. If FB was removed tomorrow you'd either see people playing tempest or no support at all.

 

Weapon skills - yes the evades on weapon skills need an increase in cool down or I'd rather see a reduction in evade time.

 

The biggest buff to ele you can give is to nerf damage across the board. The class works by reducing damage taken through protection + weakness and healing up what it takes with sustain and some constant bursts of healing. What you asked for to change to be "more interactive" is not possible without completely reworking the class from core upwards. I don't see a problem with them being a decent sustained 1v1 fight, they die very easily to a +1 and even with a reduction in everyone's power this would still hold true.

 

Edit:

Torment: Torment does tons of damage and generally has stacks last as long as bleed. I think it needs the confusion treatment where it does more damage when moving but does little to no damage standing still with considerable reductions to duration across all classes.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bleeding

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Torment

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"apharma.3741" said:

> Thief:

> Infiltrators strike - a good reason to try the change.

>

> Vuln on dagger auto - no put it on heartseeker if needed but DP is already very annoying with it's poison + weakness application vs anyone with limited cleanses so I'd rather not see another cover condi.

>

> Dagger storm - I don't agree I think reducing the duration and damage a little might be a good idea to 3s and remove 1-2 of the attacks.

>

> DE- yeah get rid of stealth on dodge agreed but DE needs a lot of work in general.

>

> Ranger:

> Agreed they've been power creeping ranger outside of druid skills for a few years, THEY ARE DOING THIS TO OTHER CLASSES TOO!

>

> Winter's Bite - I'd also say reduce the duration of the weakness to 3-5s, ranger already poops cripple and weakness in traits. When you hit with winter's bite it adds a buff to the pet like a poison etc so if the pet is dodged it consumes the buff/stack.

>

> Ectoplasm - I'd rather they nerfed ectoplasm because it's far too strong objectively, It's not necessary to have that many.

>

> Muddy terrain - lesser muddy terrain, no slow and lower pulses. Make ICD same as the skill muddy terrain.

>

> Troll Ungent - cast is OK imo, 3/4s is OK

>

> Sick em - Agreed 20% for player.

>

> I'd also up the cool downs on axe 2 and 3 by 2s.

>

> Engineer:

> Elixir U + toss - Agreed remove perma quickness, change the boons I would say make one give alacrity, the other resistance maybe?

>

> Elixir S - remove the passive and put a new trait in there agreed double elixir S isn't good to play against. Maybe new trait instead heals on elixir use to fit with alchemy.

>

> Heat Therapy - Yes it heals for too much, I don't see a way to keep it as a heal and make it more interactive or harder to get so I would nerf the healing.

>

> HGH + Mechanised deployment: This allows CDR that's far too much for toss elixirs and tool belt skills in general that belong to a category. I think they should change mechanised deployment to only affect tool belt skills that do not have a CDR trait but increase it a bit.

>

> Warrior:

> Rampage: I don't mind either way but the CD increase should be reflected in increasing elixir X CD too.

>

> Shake it off: That's power creep for you, it was buffed because it couldn't keep up with the power creep and spamfiesta. Only thing I can see needing doing is reducing cleanses down to 4/3 while reducing condition spam across classes.

>

> Revenant:

> I don't agree. I think it still stacks might (just like some other classes) far too easily solo so would like that toning down to reduce it's damage. It isn't bad in the current meta but I think damage atm is far too high.

>

> Guardian:

> Core Guardian - It does way too much damage. I think a good target is righteous instincts and reduce the crit chance to 20% so they have to playy something with crit chance again.

>

> Ray of Judgement - I'd lower the damage a fair bit and as you say add an immob to the first strike.

>

> Signet of Mercy - I don't agree, look at all the other rez skills in the game with long CDs and long casts, they're mostly pointless as a stomp or cleave will kill before the rez. You can move the downed and CC the guard.

>

> FB - It has too much added baseline from tomes and eclipses everything in support. I don't see a way to balance it with numbers unless you increase the cast time to get tomes like it was in beta. I think it needs taking back to redesign at a fundamental level. Yes I know in the meta it's balanced but the meta is insanely power creeped.

>

> Necromancer:

> Ritual of Life - I don't think the trait is the issue. It's annoying don't get me wrong but I think it's the synergy between it and Transfusion that's the issue. Maybe reduce how much healing power affects revive?

>

> Ghastly Claws - Only source of LF generation so I'd either increase CD and add LF generation elsewhere or reduce the damage. I'd say reduce damage imo.

>

> Scourge - See notes on torment. Maybe reduce the burning by 1s but I think torment is the bigger issue.

>

> Mesmer:

> The damage is the problem not chaos. Nerf chaos and you deny any play style that isn't burst, that you're advocating making an entire line completely useless is a little concerning.

>

> Pistol - It's not actually that good, bleed is the worst condi there is and it does ~2000 damage in bleeds and then maybe another 1k in power. I'd suggest increasing the cast on the phantasm so 1 dodge = all or 90% damage avoided.

>

> Axe - This is OK? TF are you smoking? You know that the ambush is ranged right? The axe ambush and axes of symmetry do too many condition stacks from the player and should be halved.

>

> Elementalist:

> For Tempest to be viable damage and FB need massive nerfs. Might trait on aura was removed, they now cleanse and it's still in fire line. Tempest is the 2nd best support bar none. If FB was removed tomorrow you'd either see people playing tempest or no support at all.

>

> Weapon skills - yes the evades on weapon skills need an increase in cool down or I'd rather see a reduction in evade time.

>

> The biggest buff to ele you can give is to nerf damage across the board. The class works by reducing damage taken through protection + weakness and healing up what it takes with sustain and some constant bursts of healing. What you asked for to change to be "more interactive" is not possible without completely reworking the class from core upwards. I don't see a problem with them being a decent sustained 1v1 fight, they die very easily to a +1 and even with a reduction in everyone's power this would still hold true.

>

> Edit:

> Torment: Torment does tons of damage and generally has stacks last as long as bleed. I think it needs the confusion treatment where it does more damage when moving but does little to no damage standing still with considerable reductions to duration across all classes.

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bleeding

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Torment

 

Firebrand already kind of struggles in ranked outside of tourney. If you nerf it much more you risk turning the entire meta into bruisery side node 1v1er builds and nothing else, no dedicated team fighters and no such thing as a dedicated support. Tempest needs to be brought up to FB's level.

[Math.5123]

> @"apharma.3741" said:

> Winter's Bite - I'd also say reduce the duration of the weakness to 3-5s, ranger already poops cripple and weakness in traits. When you hit with winter's bite it adds a buff to the pet like a poison etc so if the pet is dodged it consumes the buff/stack.

 

This is wrong, the skill does not get consumed until the pet actually hits with the attack.

 

> Guardian:

> Core Guardian - It does way too much damage. I think a good target is righteous instincts and reduce the crit chance to 20% so they have to playy something with crit chance again.

>

> Ray of Judgement - I'd lower the damage a fair bit and as you say add an immob to the first strike.

 

Core guardian has lower damage potential than holo, reaper and str war. All the while having lower mobility and no form of disengage. Burst is the only thing it has. Reducing the crit chance will render the build completely useless because you're forced into Marauder (which means losing out on 450 ferocity). You already can't kill a lot of classes.

I love how you're advocating for nerfs on one of the weaker classes in the meta right now. Rev literally does everything a core guard does but better. (apart from dueling mesmers)

I really want the old Ray of Judgement back. Guards didn't need more damage.

[shadowpass.4236]

> @"dominik.9721" said:

> All those random mirage mains who had ZERO presence druing ESL times coming out of their caves, defending their class and thinking they are relevant now LMFAO

>

> There is a reason you guys have been irrelevant for like 5 years, showing up with mirage now

>

 

Pretty much exactly this.

 

The only reason mesmer mains vehemently defended broken builds like the Chrono phantasm spam build (never died, had every boon in the game, and 1 shot multiple people just by spamming phantasms) and condi Mirage is because they'll be completely irrelevant again if they aren't playing builds that are completely overpowered and easy to play.

 

Oh, don't forget about 1 shot mantra mesmers that can do 20k+ damage from stealth before you can react. Those builds are the epitome of skill. Oh, and INB4

"these builds are squishy so they're balanced" ... Blink + Jaunt + Mirage Thrust (up to 4 times) and you're anywhere from 2250 to 4050 range away from your target. (omegaLUL)

[apharma.3741]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

>

> Firebrand already kind of struggles in ranked outside of tourney. If you nerf it much more you risk turning the entire meta into bruisery side node 1v1er builds and nothing else, no dedicated team fighters and no such thing as a dedicated support. Tempest needs to be brought up to FB's level.

 

Yet FB being objectively better support than anything else isn't an issue? Sure stave off the nerfs/reworks till damage across the board has been toned down by a considerable margin but FB gets far too much from taking the line just from getting tomes.

 

 

 

> @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > Winter's Bite - I'd also say reduce the duration of the weakness to 3-5s, ranger already poops cripple and weakness in traits. When you hit with winter's bite it adds a buff to the pet like a poison etc so if the pet is dodged it consumes the buff/stack.

>

> This is wrong, the skill does not get consumed until the pet actually hits with the attack.

>

> > Guardian:

> > Core Guardian - It does way too much damage. I think a good target is righteous instincts and reduce the crit chance to 20% so they have to playy something with crit chance again.

> >

> > Ray of Judgement - I'd lower the damage a fair bit and as you say add an immob to the first strike.

>

> Core guardian has lower damage potential than holo, reaper and str war. All the while having lower mobility and no form of disengage. Burst is the only thing it has. Reducing the crit chance will render the build completely useless because you're forced into Marauder (which means losing out on 450 ferocity). You already can't kill a lot of classes.

> I love how you're advocating for nerfs on one of the weaker classes in the meta right now. Rev literally does everything a core guard does but better. (apart from dueling mesmers)

> I really want the old Ray of Judgement back. Guards didn't need more damage.

 

Sorry I was meaning that the weakness application should act like a venom skill as in if you miss (the pet misses) then the stack is removed. I know that is not how it is currently working, I watched the video too.

 

Core guard can literally 100-0 any class or at least get them to the point where they're effectively dead in a +1 situation and they can do it in the blink of an eye. Then have follow up damage with sword and focus if they need, decent sustain from meditations with invuln for an extra 4k heal if needed with no need for healing power. Core guard has very good burst and great sustain for a core spec especially for a burst spec, I would argue it is by far the strongest core spec. Generally other burst specs have poor sustained damage and even worse sustained healing/damage mitigation, the only benefit they have is their superior disengage.

 

I think ALL damage is far too high atm, I would love to see damage across all meta builds scaled back with increases to cool downs, adressing boon spam that has spiralled out of control since HoT. No exceptions even mesmer, the condition stacks it throws out is insane ontop of them being incredibly oppressive conditions.

[lodjur.1284]

> @"apharma.3741" said:

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> >

> > Firebrand already kind of struggles in ranked outside of tourney. If you nerf it much more you risk turning the entire meta into bruisery side node 1v1er builds and nothing else, no dedicated team fighters and no such thing as a dedicated support. Tempest needs to be brought up to FB's level.

>

> Yet FB being objectively better support than anything else isn't an issue? Sure stave off the nerfs/reworks till damage across the board has been toned down by a considerable margin but FB gets far too much from taking the line just from getting tomes.

 

Well firebrand is one of the only 2 support specs that are PvP oriented. Tempest is garbage and should get access to Aoe stability (like stab on aura) and get some of it's previous nerfs reverted.

[Hyper Cutter.9376]

> @"apharma.3741" said:

> Edit:

> Torment: Torment does tons of damage and generally has stacks last as long as bleed. I think it needs the confusion treatment where it does more damage when moving but does little to no damage standing still with considerable reductions to duration across all classes.

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bleeding

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Torment

I'd rather they not, because I'm sure they'll do the same stupid thing they did with confusion and make it utterly worthless in PVE.

[Nerah.8235]

Not sure about the Necro suggestions?

So, first, all Necros (including base profession) need a strong ranged (power) attack, since they are super-duper slow: currently, that burst is Axe 2 (also generates decent LF). There is no other ranged burst. Longer cool-downs just mean less burst, which seems unfair since necromancers already seem to have about the longest cool-downs across the board for both weapons and utilities. Staff has good range, but no burst (and hideously long cool-downs). Scepter has some range, but no burst, and scales more with condi than power. Dagger? No range. All other classes have a ton of blocks and other active defenses, which reduce the Axe 2 damage (in some cases to zero), so I don't see where a necro Axe nerf does anything really productive for the mode as a whole. Also, the Axe needs a ton of Vuln to do decent damage, which means that you need to put in a lot of prep work to even get the damage that you are concerned with [bearing in mind you can see the sloooow necro the entire time]. Contrast to something like mirage burst.

Second, the Blood Magic nerf. Not sure where to go with this. It is the "only" support trait for core and reaper. Sure, it can rez quickly and reliably: that is the main support it provides, by design. If that gets nerfed, then the traitline becomes trash. The other stuff (Life from Death, etc.) really only functions well if you have an enormous investment in healing power, which means your damage ouptut is crippled. I get that people don't like it when they can't kill opponents, but there is an easy solution: focus the necromancer first. Problem solved (and the necro MUST eat all the damage, either from HP pool or from shroud/barrier)!

I just hate seeing suggestions to nerf necro when it already has so many glaring weaknesses that MUST be played around in order to be successful. No other profession has as many or as obvious deficiencies as necro.