Condi mesmer still no nerf

[bravan.3876]

To say it that clear: Portal nerf is only a nerf for skilled mesmer not for all the noobs finally can run mesmer with 3 duel utilities, brainless run far and win everything they meet. Mes got weaker in rotation but thats not a playstyle any noob is good at anyway. Mesmer got noobfriendlier a lot with portal nerf. Hf faceing mesmers carried by illusionary ambush everywhere. Torch+signet of midnight+axe 3+ illu ambush, you will not be able to target the mes like 80% of the fight + the time you need to get him back in target even when you immediately see the right one = unbeatable. Even mesmer running arcane thievery instead will still be annoyingly often out of target.

[everyman.4375]

> @"bravan.3876" said:

> To say it that clear: Portal nerf is only a nerf for skilled mesmer not for all the noobs finally can run mesmer with 3 duel utilities, brainless run far and win everything they meet. Mes got weaker in rotation but thats not a playstyle any noob is good at anyway. Mesmer got noobfriendlier a lot with portal nerf. Hf faceing mesmers carried by illusionary ambush everywhere. Torch+signet of midnight+axe 3+ illu ambush, you will not be able to target the mes like 80% of the fight + the time you need to get him back in target even when you immediately see the right one = unbeatable. Even mesmer running arcane thievery instead will still be annoyingly often out of target.

 

This is nerf makes me so sad, portal is such a good spell, made so many fun or interesting play and they just delete it for no reason. I realy hope they revert it one day cause otherwise portal is dead.

[Vlerk.4761]

@ your thread title; yes condi mesmer did get nerfs.

 

@ your post; mirage is in a decent spot right now, if anything they could use buffs in several areas including their condi damage and survivability.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

[Puts newspaper down for patch notes]

 

So the main issue of condition oriented mirage builds melting things they run into was not addressed, but instead power oriented mesmer builds were gently tapped down and portal was nerfed so mirages are even less mobile and thus prone to lean into the condi duelist build even more?

 

And, to balance this, a hefty chunk of things that could stall them out as duelists, namely boonbeast, spellbreaker and some necro builds have been nerfed?

 

[Chuckles, pulls newspaper back up, sighing]

 

_okayyy~_

[Master Ketsu.4569]

Portal nerf is pretty huge.

[shadowpass.4236]

@"will de grijze jager.6594"

 

It's a waste of time to argue with mesmer mains on the forums. They believe that their class is the weakest in the game, every attack is easy to avoid, they are easy to kill, and everything counters them.

 

But I mean, that's what happens when Anet gives them overpowered spec after overpowered spec and they attribute them killing things to their own skill.

 

Oh, and don't forget that core guardians are overpowered. :^)

[Alatar.7364]

I am usually the first in line to raise a pitchfork on Mirages, but the fact is they **did** get nerfed this patch.

 

On the other hand the true issue of seemingly infinite condi application was not touched at all, but the Axe#2 nerf definitely helps a little bit with that. (even though...2 secs...meh)

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> *Puts newspaper down for patch notes*

>

> So the main issue of condition oriented mirage builds melting things they run into was not addressed, but instead power oriented mesmer builds were gutted and portal was nerfed so mirages are even less mobile and thus prone to lean into the duelist build even more?

>

> And, to balance this, everything that could stall them out as duelists have been also nerfed?

>

> *Chuckles, pulls newspaper back up, sighing* _okayyy~_

 

The only builds getting melted by condi mirage are the three main necro builds, revs, and sick em yolo soulbeast builds and gs mesmers or garbage nonmeta specs. Core guard, firebrand, holosmith, boonbeast, spell breaker, thief and even sd weavers have the cleanses to put up a decent fight with odds varying across the board or at least stall out indefinitely.

[Sampson.2403]

> @"bravan.3876" said:

> To say it that clear: Portal nerf is only a nerf for skilled mesmer not for all the noobs finally can run mesmer with 3 duel utilities, brainless run far and win everything they meet. Mes got weaker in rotation but thats not a playstyle any noob is good at anyway. Mesmer got noobfriendlier a lot with portal nerf. Hf faceing mesmers carried by illusionary ambush everywhere. Torch+signet of midnight+axe 3+ illu ambush, you will not be able to target the mes like 80% of the fight + the time you need to get him back in target even when you immediately see the right one = unbeatable. Even mesmer running arcane thievery instead will still be annoyingly often out of target.

 

Lol its funny because in a way you're kind of right. There are several games that i can look back on and would have taken illus ambush over portal. Thing is that i have won games because of portal too. So it's always been a debate in my own head whether to run it or not with uncooridnated 5 man teams.

 

But now it's a no brainer, unless you're coordinating with people through pre made duo or tournament teams...speaking of coordination what about this new push to talk button feature? Can we talk in pvp games now?

[Ruufio.1496]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"will de grijze jager.6594" said:

> > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > @"will de grijze jager.6594" said:

> > > > > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > > > > Make a boonbeast? Ranger has the best 1v1 specs in the game you shouldnt have an issue.

> > > >

> > > > Mate 1 of the best rangers that is streaming even have fought with a common condi mirage and he had no chance after the nerfs. Condi mesmer din't get nerfed almost. Don't forget nerf to an other class is also a buff for yours.

> > >

> > > Boonbeast hard counters condi mirage. Especially with boonbeast buffed to have access to double protection against both power and condition damage this patch, for some insane reason. If they're losing to condi mirage, they are not a good reanger.

> >

> > Mate the guys is known to be 1 of the top players and evne Helseth says that Condi mirage is broken even playing against there counters, but i din't expect less from a mesmer main to defend the broken condi mirage.

>

> Helseth hasn't played in any real capacity for almost two years now.

 

I wonder why

 

[Alatar.7364]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > *Puts newspaper down for patch notes*

> >

> > So the main issue of condition oriented mirage builds melting things they run into was not addressed, but instead power oriented mesmer builds were gutted and portal was nerfed so mirages are even less mobile and thus prone to lean into the duelist build even more?

> >

> > And, to balance this, everything that could stall them out as duelists have been also nerfed?

> >

> > *Chuckles, pulls newspaper back up, sighing* _okayyy~_

>

> The only builds getting melted by condi mirage are the three main necro builds, revs, and sick em yolo soulbeast builds and gs mesmers or garbage nonmeta specs. Core guard, firebrand, holosmith, boonbeast, spell breaker, thief and even sd weavers have the cleanses to put up a decent fight with odds varying across the board or at least stall out indefinitely.

 

Thief has 3 condi clense. The end.

The other 3 has to activate a non-clense skill first to get to it, so it will take burst dmg as hell, can't even be used to clense during Life/death scenario, so effectively just 1x3 condi clense per 30 sec in Thiefs build.

If it manages to land a Steal and get Plasma, it will have 2sec + 2sec of resistance, the channel can be interrupted and overaly 4sec wont make too much of a difference and thats assuming Thief had to blow out both Plasmas at once instead of separate uses.

[Classic Perception.2507]

> @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> Don't pay attention to will de grijze jager.6594 . He don't know how to read mez nerfs updates. He only knows how to cry no nerf. Let this Troll thread die plz.

 

I'm just going to step in real quick, not to backup OP but because you're not in a position to say anything. You think a-30 % physical damage reduction on a condi spike build is a significant nerf, pls...Don't get me wrong (because you probably will get this wrong given your apparent iq), even though the nerfs are very significant it's too soon to say if they are impactful because of the nerfs to other classes' substain.

 

You're also the guy who thought nerf on lead attacks are good because they prevent deadeyes from one shotting people, when deadeyes don't even use trickery, lol again. I guess you showcase your "patch note reading skills" a lot don't you? You also think it's a good nerf because it prevents s/d from one shotting people...because s/d thief is so good in this meta it does that? Really bruh...just sit down.

 

 

[Solori.6025]

> @"Alatar.7364" said:

> I am usually the first in line to raise a pitchfork on Mirages, but the fact is they **did** get nerfed this patch.

>

> On the other hand the true issue of seemingly infinite condi application was not touched at all, but the Axe#2 nerf definitely helps a little bit with that. (even though...2 secs...meh)

 

Condi duration for condi mes also got nerfed.

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"Alatar.7364" said:

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > > *Puts newspaper down for patch notes*

> > >

> > > So the main issue of condition oriented mirage builds melting things they run into was not addressed, but instead power oriented mesmer builds were gutted and portal was nerfed so mirages are even less mobile and thus prone to lean into the duelist build even more?

> > >

> > > And, to balance this, everything that could stall them out as duelists have been also nerfed?

> > >

> > > *Chuckles, pulls newspaper back up, sighing* _okayyy~_

> >

> > The only builds getting melted by condi mirage are the three main necro builds, revs, and sick em yolo soulbeast builds and gs mesmers or garbage nonmeta specs. Core guard, firebrand, holosmith, boonbeast, spell breaker, thief and even sd weavers have the cleanses to put up a decent fight with odds varying across the board or at least stall out indefinitely.

>

> Thief has 3 condi clense. The end.

> The other 3 has to activate a non-clense skill first to get to it, so it will take burst dmg as hell, can't even be used to clense during Life/death scenario, so effectively just 1x3 condi clense per 30 sec in Thiefs build.

> If it manages to land a Steal and get Plasma, it will have 2sec + 2sec of resistance, the channel can be interrupted and overaly 4sec wont make too much of a difference and thats assuming Thief had to blow out both Plasmas at once instead of separate uses.

 

Between good use of infiltrator's Strike, potentially 4x ectoplasm and all of its evades SD thief shouldn't even be in a position to eat a full burst from a condi mirage and can seriously threaten it in return.

[Vieux P.1238]

> @"Classic Perception.2507" said:

> > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > Don't pay attention to will de grijze jager.6594 . He don't know how to read mez nerfs updates. He only knows how to cry no nerf. Let this Troll thread die plz.

>

> I'm just going to step in real quick, not to backup OP but because you're not in a position to say anything. You think a-30 % physical damage reduction on a condi spike build is a significant nerf, pls...

>

>

I don't just think, i'm telling you. & you or anyone saying otherwise is hypocritical. Tell me you would'nt mind -30% damage to one of your main weapons?

Mirage Axe is already borderline weak in damage before nerf & clunky. Adding - 30% damage is huge.

 

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

Honestly portal nerf is the only actual nerf here. Everything else is insubstantial at best.

 

30% power damage reduction on a skill that has 200 base power? Omg such nerfs.

 

Oh no my skills with 8 second cooldown but 2 ammunition charges got cd increase by a whole 2 seconds? Oh Nooooooo

 

And everything else that makes Condi mirage so oppressive still goes untouched...blinds for days, clones and Condi pressure for days, invulns, dodges and detargetting for days.

 

[Alatar.7364]

> @"Solori.6025" said:

> > @"Alatar.7364" said:

> > I am usually the first in line to raise a pitchfork on Mirages, but the fact is they **did** get nerfed this patch.

> >

> > On the other hand the true issue of seemingly infinite condi application was not touched at all, but the Axe#2 nerf definitely helps a little bit with that. (even though...2 secs...meh)

>

> Condi duration for condi mes also got nerfed.

 

It did?

Sorry I didn't exactly recheck the Update list after first reading.

Would you post for me the change, literally can't look it up now irl.

[Alatar.7364]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"Alatar.7364" said:

> > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > > > *Puts newspaper down for patch notes*

> > > >

> > > > So the main issue of condition oriented mirage builds melting things they run into was not addressed, but instead power oriented mesmer builds were gutted and portal was nerfed so mirages are even less mobile and thus prone to lean into the duelist build even more?

> > > >

> > > > And, to balance this, everything that could stall them out as duelists have been also nerfed?

> > > >

> > > > *Chuckles, pulls newspaper back up, sighing* _okayyy~_

> > >

> > > The only builds getting melted by condi mirage are the three main necro builds, revs, and sick em yolo soulbeast builds and gs mesmers or garbage nonmeta specs. Core guard, firebrand, holosmith, boonbeast, spell breaker, thief and even sd weavers have the cleanses to put up a decent fight with odds varying across the board or at least stall out indefinitely.

> >

> > Thief has 3 condi clense. The end.

> > The other 3 has to activate a non-clense skill first to get to it, so it will take burst dmg as hell, can't even be used to clense during Life/death scenario, so effectively just 1x3 condi clense per 30 sec in Thiefs build.

> > If it manages to land a Steal and get Plasma, it will have 2sec + 2sec of resistance, the channel can be interrupted and overaly 4sec wont make too much of a difference and thats assuming Thief had to blow out both Plasmas at once instead of separate uses.

>

> Between good use of infiltrator's Strike, potentially 4x ectoplasm and all of its evades SD thief shouldn't even be in a position to eat a full burst from a condi mirage and can seriously threaten it in return.

 

Perhaps, but then all it takes to shred Thief is to take 2 hits, 1 it can clense, 2 it is over, while Thief has to stay on Mesmer the entire time. It is easier for Mirage to land two bursts on Thief than it is for Thief to keep on target, interrupts, etc.

It is why I always say that while Thief (lets assume S/D) even though considered a counter to Mirage, will still more than likely lose to equally skilled Mirage.

[Solori.6025]

> @"Alatar.7364" said:

> > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > > @"Alatar.7364" said:

> > > I am usually the first in line to raise a pitchfork on Mirages, but the fact is they **did** get nerfed this patch.

> > >

> > > On the other hand the true issue of seemingly infinite condi application was not touched at all, but the Axe#2 nerf definitely helps a little bit with that. (even though...2 secs...meh)

> >

> > Condi duration for condi mes also got nerfed.

>

> It did?

> Sorry I didn't exactly recheck the Update list after first reading.

> Would you post for me the change, literally can't look it up now irl.

 

Signet of Midnight: This signet's passive effect now grants 180 expertise at level 80 instead of a flat condition duration in order to be consistent with other signet effects.

 

^This happened.

You should notice a higher drop off of condis now unless the mesmer invest in expertise then it will be roughly the same duration, but the mesmer will be a bit squishier

Gone are the days of speccing condi damage and having duration covered by utilities.

This means the Axe and jaunt nerfs are going to be a little more significant than people actually think

[Alatar.7364]

> @"Solori.6025" said:

> > @"Alatar.7364" said:

> > > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > > > @"Alatar.7364" said:

> > > > I am usually the first in line to raise a pitchfork on Mirages, but the fact is they **did** get nerfed this patch.

> > > >

> > > > On the other hand the true issue of seemingly infinite condi application was not touched at all, but the Axe#2 nerf definitely helps a little bit with that. (even though...2 secs...meh)

> > >

> > > Condi duration for condi mes also got nerfed.

> >

> > It did?

> > Sorry I didn't exactly recheck the Update list after first reading.

> > Would you post for me the change, literally can't look it up now irl.

>

> Signet of Midnight: This signet's passive effect now grants 180 expertise at level 80 instead of a flat condition duration in order to be consistent with other signet effects.

>

> ^This happened.

> You should notice a higher drop off of condis now unless the mesmer invest in expertise then it will be roughly the same duration, but the mesmer will be a bit squishier

> Gone are the days of speccing condi damage and having duration covered by utilities.

> This means the Axe and jaunt nerfs are going to be a little more significant than people actually think

 

With this change, it loses 5% from its original Duration.

While undoubtedly a nerf, is 5% going to make literally **any** diference?

[Solori.6025]

> @"Alatar.7364" said:

> > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > > @"Alatar.7364" said:

> > > > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > > > > @"Alatar.7364" said:

> > > > > I am usually the first in line to raise a pitchfork on Mirages, but the fact is they **did** get nerfed this patch.

> > > > >

> > > > > On the other hand the true issue of seemingly infinite condi application was not touched at all, but the Axe#2 nerf definitely helps a little bit with that. (even though...2 secs...meh)

> > > >

> > > > Condi duration for condi mes also got nerfed.

> > >

> > > It did?

> > > Sorry I didn't exactly recheck the Update list after first reading.

> > > Would you post for me the change, literally can't look it up now irl.

> >

> > Signet of Midnight: This signet's passive effect now grants 180 expertise at level 80 instead of a flat condition duration in order to be consistent with other signet effects.

> >

> > ^This happened.

> > You should notice a higher drop off of condis now unless the mesmer invest in expertise then it will be roughly the same duration, but the mesmer will be a bit squishier

> > Gone are the days of speccing condi damage and having duration covered by utilities.

> > This means the Axe and jaunt nerfs are going to be a little more significant than people actually think

>

> With this change, it loses 5% from its original Duration.

> While undoubtedly a nerf, is 5% going to make literally **any** diference?

 

hmm ...

Signet of Midnight gave a flat duration of 20%..

Now in-game it's 12%

So 8% shave

We'll see? If the mobility nerfs , axe power damage nerfs, and buffing of soulbeast don't kill the spec, I'm sure people will be back with pitchforks.

[Chilli.2976]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> Portal getting nerfed is the single most brutal nerf this entire patch.

 

I suggested the 30s CD about 3 years ago, happy to see it finally done.

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"Chilli.2976" said:

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > Portal getting nerfed is the single most brutal nerf this entire patch.

>

> I suggested the 30s CD about 3 years ago, happy to see it finally done.

 

This seems like an oddly spiteful little post.

 

Portal has defined mesmer the way infiltrator's arrow defined thief. The most exciting, strategic, and skilled plays in the game have always been portal plays.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > *Puts newspaper down for patch notes*

> >

> > So the main issue of condition oriented mirage builds melting things they run into was not addressed, but instead power oriented mesmer builds were gutted and portal was nerfed so mirages are even less mobile and thus prone to lean into the duelist build even more?

> >

> > And, to balance this, everything that could stall them out as duelists have been also nerfed?

> >

> > *Chuckles, pulls newspaper back up, sighing* _okayyy~_

>

> The only builds getting melted by condi mirage are the three main necro builds, revs, and sick em yolo soulbeast builds and gs mesmers or garbage nonmeta specs. Core guard, firebrand, holosmith, boonbeast, spell breaker, thief and even sd weavers have the cleanses to put up a decent fight with odds varying across the board or at least stall out indefinitely.

 

Realized this and adjusted my wording, but you grabbed my original post.

Still not very confident in the patch. And they hit portal to boot.

 

[Solori.6025]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"Chilli.2976" said:

> > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > Portal getting nerfed is the single most brutal nerf this entire patch.

> >

> > I suggested the 30s CD about 3 years ago, happy to see it finally done.

>

> This seems like an oddly spiteful little post.

>

> Portal has defined mesmer the way infiltrator's arrow defined thief. The most exciting, strategic, and skilled plays in the game have always been portal plays.

 

I'm not gonna lie. It feels kinda good to not be expected to know portal plays. Really sad this came AFTER a years worth of nerfs though.