Zerg Heal Scrapper post-patch

[Dediggefedde.4961]

I really like to run a heal scrapper in WvW zerg fights.

Previously we had three tasks: Sustain Heal, Condi Conversion, Group Superspeed.

To achieve that goal, we would take medikit, EG, bulwark-gyro (group stability/projectiles), blast-gyro and supply crate.

 

Now that Final Salvo is missing, there is no real superspeed anymore. This makes blast-gyro pretty useless.

The new "kinetic stabilizers" has no CD and triggers pretty often in zerg fights (hammer-5, -3-combo, crate). I think I get a pretty good stability and superspeed uptime. Since Arc-DPS ist broken, I'm not sure if rapid-regeneration still heals the same or more or less.

 

But what would be a nice choice to replace blast gyro?

Slick shoes might be nice for personal super-speed and addition stun-source to trigger kinetic-stabilizers and thus rapid regeneration...

 

I also heard healrev got a great buff.

It's sad that the scrapper's superspeed role is gone to differentiate more from healrevs...

But I guess the condi-cleanse, boon-output and Sustain-Heal is still better... Or what do you think?

[PeLi.5498]

Before the scrappers was unique with their superspeed. Now isnt. Maybe now has more sustained healing, but as a WvW player, superspeed saves a lot of more lifes (and take away using offensively) So, sad day.

Those are a good ideas. I thought about Applied Force looking for quickness (more healing speam 1-medkit for ex) with Elixir U or someting like that, but no idea.

The sadness consumes me :V

[miriforst.1290]

Problem is that super speed still does not stack in duration which makes it harder to profit from rapid regen and thus MDF. Atleast from the stability side i get a beefy stack if i hit 5 tagets without being blinded/blocked/immuned (stab) for a short duration as opposed to the on demand but low intensity stacks from the gyros. However those 5 procs still only provide 3 seconds of super speed.

[Dediggefedde.4961]

> @"PeLi.5498" said:

> Before the scrappers was unique with their superspeed. Now isnt. Maybe now has more sustained healing, but as a WvW player, superspeed saves a lot of more lifes (and take away using offensively) So, sad day.

> Those are a good ideas. I thought about Applied Force looking for quickness (more healing speam 1-medkit for ex) with Elixir U or someting like that, but no idea.

> The sadness consumes me :V

 

I think someone calculated the estimated healing output pre-patch if you run applied force and Elixir-U. You got a big quickness uptime (45% applied force, 25% U and 20% toss U) and the healing was a lot stronger... Now Toss Elixir-U is without quickness, though, so you only get 45% of applied force and 12% of elixir U. Not sure if this is still better than using kinetic stabilizers to make use of rapid regeneration.

 

Unless you manage to always pull shocking-speed off properly, toolbelts of blast-gyro and slick-shoes are your only relyable source of superspeed now...

So I feel like you need an additional CC skill, like slick-shoes or blast-gyro, which also provide super-speed.

[CRrabbit.1284]

> @"Dediggefedde.4961" said:

> I really like to run a heal scrapper in WvW zerg fights.

> Previously we had three tasks: Sustain Heal, Condi Conversion, Group Superspeed.

> To achieve that goal, we would take medikit, EG, bulwark-gyro (group stability/projectiles), blast-gyro and supply crate.

>

> Now that Final Salvo is missing, there is no real superspeed anymore. This makes blast-gyro pretty useless.

> The new "kinetic stabilizers" has no CD and triggers pretty often in zerg fights (hammer-5, -3-combo, crate). I think I get a pretty good stability and superspeed uptime. Since Arc-DPS ist broken, I'm not sure if rapid-regeneration still heals the same or more or less.

>

> But what would be a nice choice to replace blast gyro?

> Slick shoes might be nice for personal super-speed and addition stun-source to trigger kinetic-stabilizers and thus rapid regeneration...

>

> I also heard healrev got a great buff.

> It's sad that the scrapper's superspeed role is gone to differentiate more from healrevs...

> But I guess the condi-cleanse, boon-output and Sustain-Heal is still better... Or what do you think?

 

You don't have to worry about super speed as long as you have plenty heralds in squad

[AphoticEssance.7592]

Until Superspeed Support Scrapper became a thing, I was unwelcome for the most part in large group play in WvW. I was happy to finally be wanted in groups while on Engy with Scrapper. This patch runed that.

 

Thanks for crushing my dreams Anet.

[Threather.9354]

Just move to Zephyr holo like real men. DPS AND SUPERSPEED!

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crystal_Configuration:_Zephyr

 

It took people over 2 years to realise how op final salvo is. Lets see how long it will take to realise how op Zephyr is. No target cap. 50 people, 1 holo.

 

Granted holo is way harder to play and survive on that scrapper. Its like completely different class with different skills everywhere except on heal...

 

Condi conversion build is the best one for holo.

 

[AphoticEssance.7592]

Does that give SS to group?.. if not who cares.. it does not fix group comp issue

 

[Stand The Wall.6987]

did final salvo have a target cap?

anyway I guess shocking speed + rev stab road is your best bet now.

[PeLi.5498]

> @"CRrabbit.1284" said:

> > @"Dediggefedde.4961" said:

> > I really like to run a heal scrapper in WvW zerg fights.

> > Previously we had three tasks: Sustain Heal, Condi Conversion, Group Superspeed.

> > To achieve that goal, we would take medikit, EG, bulwark-gyro (group stability/projectiles), blast-gyro and supply crate.

> >

> > Now that Final Salvo is missing, there is no real superspeed anymore. This makes blast-gyro pretty useless.

> > The new "kinetic stabilizers" has no CD and triggers pretty often in zerg fights (hammer-5, -3-combo, crate). I think I get a pretty good stability and superspeed uptime. Since Arc-DPS ist broken, I'm not sure if rapid-regeneration still heals the same or more or less.

> >

> > But what would be a nice choice to replace blast gyro?

> > Slick shoes might be nice for personal super-speed and addition stun-source to trigger kinetic-stabilizers and thus rapid regeneration...

> >

> > I also heard healrev got a great buff.

> > It's sad that the scrapper's superspeed role is gone to differentiate more from healrevs...

> > But I guess the condi-cleanse, boon-output and Sustain-Heal is still better... Or what do you think?

>

> You don't have to worry about super speed as long as you have plenty heralds in squad

 

Rev superspeed was insignificant compared with the scrapper superspeed. Now all of us suffer this. The problem of Anet is that they just care about PvE and the rest of us, you know.

[miriforst.1290]

> @"PeLi.5498" said:

> > @"CRrabbit.1284" said:

> > > @"Dediggefedde.4961" said:

> > > I really like to run a heal scrapper in WvW zerg fights.

> > > Previously we had three tasks: Sustain Heal, Condi Conversion, Group Superspeed.

> > > To achieve that goal, we would take medikit, EG, bulwark-gyro (group stability/projectiles), blast-gyro and supply crate.

> > >

> > > Now that Final Salvo is missing, there is no real superspeed anymore. This makes blast-gyro pretty useless.

> > > The new "kinetic stabilizers" has no CD and triggers pretty often in zerg fights (hammer-5, -3-combo, crate). I think I get a pretty good stability and superspeed uptime. Since Arc-DPS ist broken, I'm not sure if rapid-regeneration still heals the same or more or less.

> > >

> > > But what would be a nice choice to replace blast gyro?

> > > Slick shoes might be nice for personal super-speed and addition stun-source to trigger kinetic-stabilizers and thus rapid regeneration...

> > >

> > > I also heard healrev got a great buff.

> > > It's sad that the scrapper's superspeed role is gone to differentiate more from healrevs...

> > > But I guess the condi-cleanse, boon-output and Sustain-Heal is still better... Or what do you think?

> >

> > You don't have to worry about super speed as long as you have plenty heralds in squad

>

> Rev superspeed was insignificant compared with the scrapper superspeed. Now all of us suffer this. The problem of Anet is that they just care about PvE and the rest of us, you know.

 

And they think this is going to make scrapper compete with holo in raids while making it *more* selfish? Even the people who argued for a 1% more damage team bonus when you had your gyro had a better imagination than this.

 

I came back a few weeks ago to a wvw in which scrappers where approved of at last and now this junk is the idea of a buff when it affects the one build deemed at least as close to meta as we get in that mode?

 

Why not meddle with that other grand master trait which is supposed to be the offensive option on a bunkerspec?

[Caligrafers Blade.3871]

> @"AphoticEssance.7592" said:

> Until Superspeed Support Scrapper became a thing, I was unwelcome for the most part in large group play in WvW. I was happy to finally be wanted in groups while on Engy with Scrapper. This patch runed that.

>

> Thanks for crushing my dreams Anet.

 

Same here. It was my only wvw toon, and I loved the gyros. Going to go to a corner and cry quietly.

[Hoodie.1045]

> @"Dediggefedde.4961" said:

> But what would be a nice choice to replace blast gyro?

 

Tool kit with the power wrench trait. I know that this will result in losing some healing output from inventions, but personally I prefer using tools over inventions whenever I play support scrapper. With tool kit, you have a 13 seconds unblockable CC skill, thunderclap and rocket charge used in thunderclap's lightning field.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

I changed to Heal Rev.

(But had no time to test it.

 

Main reason is that they removed perma quickness.

 

Without it the heal output from the medi kit is to low.

 

I heard that the new Ventari aura heals for 3 to 3,5k on 10 targets.

 

 

[Dediggefedde.4961]

> @"Hoodie.1045" said:

> > @"Dediggefedde.4961" said:

> > But what would be a nice choice to replace blast gyro?

>

> Tool kit with the power wrench trait. I know that this will result in losing some healing output from inventions, but personally I prefer using tools over inventions whenever I play support scrapper. With tool kit, you have a 13 seconds unblockable CC skill, thunderclap and rocket charge used in thunderclap's lightning field.

 

"loosing some healing" means halfing it. In my arc-dps medical-dispersion-field is the top outgoing heal output and together with regeneration takes around 80% of total heal output.

Please remember I talk about heal-scrappers: you want super speed to trigger rapid regeneration in order to heal allies with medical dispersion field. If you replace medical dispersion field by a source of superspeed, you are losing your primary objective.

You can replace alchemy by tools, but loos all your boon-output and also halfing your heal output due to comeback-cure loss.

 

So, toolkit is probably the best match for rapid regeneration, but not compatible with a good heal-scrapper build.

 

> @"AphoticEssance.7592" said:

> Until Superspeed Support Scrapper became a thing, I was unwelcome for the most part in large group play in WvW. I was happy to finally be wanted in groups while on Engy with Scrapper. This patch runed that.

 

> @"DanAlcedo.3281" said:

> I changed to Heal Rev.

> (But had no time to test it.

> Main reason is that they removed perma quickness.

> Without it the heal output from the medi kit is to low.

> I heard that the new Ventari aura heals for 3 to 3,5k on 10 targets.

 

Superspeed was just one aspect of the scrapper, though.

The cleanse and boon-output as well as the sustain-heal is still better than heal-revs.

It is painful for the zerg to loose that mechanic, which effectively sped up pushes or saved slackers, but I still think healscrappers are a good addition to zergs.

 

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> did final salvo have a target cap?

5 people got superspeed inside the lightning field every... 1s tick for 2s duration if I remember correctly.

Meaning, if the zerg run though, you can easily distribute the 2s over 2-4 groups than ran through the field.

 

> @"Threather.9354" said:

> Just move to Zephyr holo like real men. DPS AND SUPERSPEED!

> It took people over 2 years to realise how op final salvo is. Lets see how long it will take to realise how op Zephyr is. No target cap. 50 people, 1 holo.

> Granted holo is way harder to play and survive on that scrapper. Its like completely different class with different skills everywhere except on heal...

> Condi conversion build is the best one for holo.

 

Condi conversion with antitoxin runes is the strongest anti-condi build in the game right now, with something like 9 cleanses per second on average.

Maybe with grieving stats and solar focusing lense... Or you go pack rune maroudeur for less cleanses and more damage.

 

The sad thing is a passive nerf to conversion holo and heal-scrapper.

Both have the advantage of exceling in condition cleanses.

But now the meta still shifts more to power builds.

There are still plenty of conditions, but you won't need the cleanse so much anymore.

Especially since with 3s Superspeed on demand Holo can just overwrite movement impeding conditions.

 

That sad, The final-salvo lightning fields were much broader than the holo-launchpad.

As a scrapper, most people got the superspeed.

As a holo everyone needs to know your mechanic in order to aim for running through your field...

 

 

[DanAlcedo.3281]

> @"Dediggefedde.4961" said:

> > @"Hoodie.1045" said:

> > > @"Dediggefedde.4961" said:

> > > But what would be a nice choice to replace blast gyro?

> >

> > Tool kit with the power wrench trait. I know that this will result in losing some healing output from inventions, but personally I prefer using tools over inventions whenever I play support scrapper. With tool kit, you have a 13 seconds unblockable CC skill, thunderclap and rocket charge used in thunderclap's lightning field.

>

> "loosing some healing" means halfing it. In my arc-dps medical-dispersion-field is the top outgoing heal output and together with regeneration takes around 80% of total heal output.

> Please remember I talk about heal-scrappers: you want super speed to trigger rapid regeneration in order to heal allies with medical dispersion field. If you replace medical dispersion field by a source of superspeed, you are losing your primary objective.

> You can replace alchemy by tools, but loos all your boon-output and also halfing your heal output due to comeback-cure loss.

>

> So, toolkit is probably the best match for rapid regeneration, but not compatible with a good heal-scrapper build.

>

> > @"AphoticEssance.7592" said:

> > Until Superspeed Support Scrapper became a thing, I was unwelcome for the most part in large group play in WvW. I was happy to finally be wanted in groups while on Engy with Scrapper. This patch runed that.

>

> > @"DanAlcedo.3281" said:

> > I changed to Heal Rev.

> > (But had no time to test it.

> > Main reason is that they removed perma quickness.

> > Without it the heal output from the medi kit is to low.

> > I heard that the new Ventari aura heals for 3 to 3,5k on 10 targets.

>

> Superspeed was just one aspect of the scrapper, though.

> The cleanse and boon-output as well as the sustain-heal is still better than heal-revs.

> It is painful for the zerg to loose that mechanic, which effectively sped up pushes or saved slackers, but I still think healscrappers are a good addition to zergs.

>

> > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > did final salvo have a target cap?

> 5 people got superspeed inside the lightning field every... 1s tick for 2s duration if I remember correctly.

> Meaning, if the zerg run though, you can easily distribute the 2s over 2-4 groups than ran through the field.

>

> > @"Threather.9354" said:

> > Just move to Zephyr holo like real men. DPS AND SUPERSPEED!

> > It took people over 2 years to realise how op final salvo is. Lets see how long it will take to realise how op Zephyr is. No target cap. 50 people, 1 holo.

> > Granted holo is way harder to play and survive on that scrapper. Its like completely different class with different skills everywhere except on heal...

> > Condi conversion build is the best one for holo.

>

> Condi conversion with antitoxin runes is the strongest anti-condi build in the game right now, with something like 9 cleanses per second on average.

> Maybe with grieving stats and solar focusing lense... Or you go pack rune maroudeur for less cleanses and more damage.

>

> The sad thing is a passive nerf to conversion holo and heal-scrapper.

> Both have the advantage of exceling in condition cleanses.

> But now the meta still shifts more to power builds.

> There are still plenty of conditions, but you won't need the cleanse so much anymore.

> Especially since with 3s Superspeed on demand Holo can just overwrite movement impeding conditions.

>

> That sad, The final-salvo lightning fields were much broader than the holo-launchpad.

> As a scrapper, most people got the superspeed.

> As a holo everyone needs to know your mechanic in order to aim for running through your field...

>

>

 

Im actually sad about all this.

Was nice to be able to play Engi in WvW and be appreciated.

 

But im to much of a min maxer to play something „meh“.

 

 

[Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365]

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> did final salvo have a target cap?

> anyway I guess shocking speed + rev stab road is your best bet now.

 

each pulse had a target cap of 5 players

[shortcake.8659]

Final Salvo was giving way too much superspeed anyway. That build was dumb. Superspeed was meant to be short powerful bursts of mobility, not something you get fairly constant uptime with. There's already swiftness for that. If you want 0 effort pulsing aoe healing to replace rapid regen, just play a herald.

[Dawdler.8521]

I used final salvo on my zerg heal scrapper mostly for the stab on push while the superspeed was an extra bonus so honestly... I'm not so sure this will really hurt my overall performance. In fact I'll probably just go applied force instead for easy quickness and thus more heals - I never really had access to that before as I ran the cleanse elixir in addition to the usual bulwark/elixir gun combo. Yes I'm a selfish scrapper.

 

But I dont know, probably wont even run it until reset anyway, dont raid much.

[miriforst.1290]

> @"shortcake.8659" said:

> Final Salvo was giving way too much superspeed anyway. That build was dumb. Superspeed was meant to be short powerful bursts of mobility, not something you get fairly constant uptime with. There's already swiftness for that. If you want 0 effort pulsing aoe healing to replace rapid regen, just play a herald.

 

There are a lot of dumb stuff on every single class, compared to scourges eating through boons like its free candy and turning them into debilitating conditions, revenants landing massive slams from safe distance, guardian rez balls or yellow snow bubbles of collateral casualties this is fairly harmless. You say its dumb but it was something a scrapper could do in a larger team environment, similar to how a mesmer can veil or otherwise.

 

Scrapper already has a problem with identity. It does not need the things it actually does well compared to other more prevalent specs to be taken away at the moment.

 

Especially not as a misguided buff. Had it been a nerf i would be more okay with it. But white elephant buffs do equal damage while being more insidious as the devs will probably just call it a day and think he/she fixed scrapper.

[obdmac.5147]

Scrapper "pure support" frontline regen healer/frontline "blast/leap" condi conversion/rear stragglers-group field-speed build was difficult to play well, outside accepted meta, and altruist as you're not getting bags on this build. It's bizarre that a try-hard to be mediocre build was nerfed.

Back to boring meta I guess. I want all my all my laurels and ascended materials back!

[Stand The Wall.6987]

might as well play heal holo and grab the superspeed trait lol.

[PeLi.5498]

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> might as well play heal holo and grab the superspeed trait lol.

 

Maybe change Rapid Regeneration for Heat Therapy... :V and spam Holo leap

[obdmac.5147]

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> might as well play heal holo and grab the superspeed trait lol.

Holo is strong for soloing. Scrapper is useless. MMO solo?

Final Salvo was nice for providing newbies superspeed to catch up to the zerg so they didn't get picked off. Sorry newbies, anet likes you getting picked off easy. It had virtually no utility for the vet players in the zerg, because while moving the lighting field is far behind. And when standing still the zerg doesn't want lighting fields.

Scrapper was WEAK and they nerfed it. Bizzare!

 

[Threather.9354]

> @"obdmac.5147" said:

> > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > might as well play heal holo and grab the superspeed trait lol.

> Holo is strong for soloing. Scrapper is useless. MMO solo?

> Final Salvo was nice for providing newbies superspeed to catch up to the zerg so they didn't get picked off. Sorry newbies, anet likes you getting picked off easy. It had virtually no utility for the vet players in the zerg, because while moving the lighting field is far behind. And when standing still the zerg doesn't want lighting fields.

> Scrapper was WEAK and they nerfed it. Bizzare!

 

Actually you could detonate the gyros yourself and being on voice comms, landing the lightning field that it even hits the commander isnt that hard.

 

No1 blasts field these days anyways. Smokes maybe but not midfight. There's barely any regroups because the massive amount of heals already existing.