mortrialus.3062 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > Half speed off thieves? And way higher ranged bursting potential,mirage doesn’t even have to be in melee range to burst people down, DE is garbage that shouldn’t have existed so don’t bring up their ranged busts > > > > Power GS Mirage hasn't been a thing since the Confounding Suggestions nerf last season. Even with portal, thieves rotational ability is leagues above mesmer / mirage. The compensation was how Mirage could portal themselves and teammates to places they've been before. This isn't even arguable. > > Thieves are +1 even top players don’t feel 1v1 are worth risk with thief even know there skilled with class and stuck to +1 fights and decap if pvp, a good mesmer is god ov 1v1 and some 1vs2 so ur right can’t compare there,and mirage has ample mobility especially when compared to how loaded the class is, I get that it’s ur class man and it’s a great class and fun but the portal nurf isn’t going to kill it and especially it’s mobility, I play a lot of thief and mirage but mostly ranger so I’m pretty unbiased Mesmers are better 1v1 than thieves but they are still behind Spellbreaker and Boonbeast as 1v1ers, especially with Boonbeast now at Disenchanter Chronomancer levels after getting buffed. Spellbreaker vs. Mirage will stall out every time with the Spellbreaker favored to be able to cap the node. Calling Mesmer a 1v1 god when Boonbeast is a thing is laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > Half speed off thieves? And way higher ranged bursting potential,mirage doesn’t even have to be in melee range to burst people down, DE is garbage that shouldn’t have existed so don’t bring up their ranged busts > > > > > > Power GS Mirage hasn't been a thing since the Confounding Suggestions nerf last season. Even with portal, thieves rotational ability is leagues above mesmer / mirage. The compensation was how Mirage could portal themselves and teammates to places they've been before. This isn't even arguable. > > > > Thieves are +1 even top players don’t feel 1v1 are worth risk with thief even know there skilled with class and stuck to +1 fights and decap if pvp, a good mesmer is god ov 1v1 and some 1vs2 so ur right can’t compare there,and mirage has ample mobility especially when compared to how loaded the class is, I get that it’s ur class man and it’s a great class and fun but the portal nurf isn’t going to kill it and especially it’s mobility, I play a lot of thief and mirage but mostly ranger so I’m pretty unbiased > > Mesmers are better 1v1 than thieves but they are still behind Spellbreaker and Boonbeast as 1v1ers, especially with Boonbeast now at Disenchanter Chronomancer levels after getting buffed. Spellbreaker vs. Mirage will stall out every time with the Spellbreaker favored to be able to cap the node. Calling Mesmer a 1v1 god when Boonbeast is a thing is laughable. Boonbeast is strong dueler for sure,it’s why I chose ranger,not a fan of pew pew playstyle. I still think mirage is slightly ahead for dueling potential tho, I’ve taken down mirages but more so than not their burst is just as high if not more and even with boons up burst my down fast and ranger with owl and gs leap has great mobility but not enough to get away from mirage lol last night 3 of us were trying to kill this little asura mirage and took forever between all the clones, stealth, jaunt and blink couldn’t catch the little guy,course woulda helped if we had a thief or mirage with us to lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 Plus he was obviously more skilled than us I’ll admit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incisorr.9502 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 portal was already pretty bad and i don't understand all the hype around it. People's reasoning on portal is incredibly stupid and the best i heard so far was "if your teammates are dying you can use portal and save them" if your teammates are dying they are garbage and deserve to die. ^That sounds like such a loser thing to say. Why would you need to save your teammates if they are better than the enemy and don't need saving? and with that being said, people should aim to be better than the enemy in equal number pvp so that they won't need saving - portal is the exact opposite of that, it aims to make a weaker comp win due to outrotating and outnumbering but that's just dumb cus if you're better than your enemy you can just stand on 1 place and win the game like that and portal won't come into play anyway with that being said the scary part is that people will drop portal now and they'll realize that portal was never good in the first place anyway2 i don't think the nerf makes sense. I absolutely hate when X value gets changed by 50%+ which is what arena neet keeps doing and it just goes to show unprofessionalism imo. Patch comes from patching up something which means adjusting things and not completely tearing them apart, with arena net and their nerfs its like X value goes -50% and X value goes +50% like wtf? 50% isnt a patch its more like a tear. You cut half of what's already there, how can that be a patch or a tweak or an adjustment it's literally destruction lmao. Portal lasted 60 seconds now it lasts 30 seconds ,you literally cut half of its duration - does that imply that for the 6 years in which the skill was in the game it was 50% too strong and it took you this long to address it? the way patches should be done are minor tweaks and adjustments, portal could've easily been nerfed to 45 second duration (still 25%) instead to 30 and it would be way more fair to everyone anyway that being said, i don't defend portal i dont care about it, get rid of it for it if you want. I just dislike this 50%+ value nerf thing and it's butchered way too many builds ive enjoyed in the past Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaith.8256 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 > @"incisorr.9502" said: > portal was already pretty bad and i don't understand all the hype around it. People's reasoning on portal is incredibly stupid and the best i heard so far was "if your teammates are dying you can use portal and save them" > > if your teammates are dying they are garbage and deserve to die. ^That sounds like such a loser thing to say. Why would you need to save your teammates if they are better than the enemy and don't need saving? and with that being said, people should aim to be better than the enemy in equal number pvp so that they won't need saving - portal is the exact opposite of that, it aims to make a weaker comp win due to outrotating and outnumbering but that's just dumb cus if you're better than your enemy you can just stand on 1 place and win the game like that and portal won't come into play Let me just say that I'm happy portal was limited to a smaller window of play making. However, you're wrong if you think using portal to allow teammates to disengage means your team is not worth saving. And the guy you're replying to is wrong by saying portal was already pretty bad! It's probably the best single skill in game for conquest, but just under utilized in unorganized queues. GW2 PvP leaves many people outnumbered/ganked and focus fired by multiple people. Saving them with portal basically negates all of the enemy's offensive cooldowns. Also you can EZ revive an Ele by the downstate Ele and allies all entering a portal to revive in another location. They're good strategies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xstein.2187 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 > @"Chaith.8256" said: > > @"incisorr.9502" said: > > portal was already pretty bad and i don't understand all the hype around it. People's reasoning on portal is incredibly stupid and the best i heard so far was "if your teammates are dying you can use portal and save them" > > > > if your teammates are dying they are garbage and deserve to die. ^That sounds like such a loser thing to say. Why would you need to save your teammates if they are better than the enemy and don't need saving? and with that being said, people should aim to be better than the enemy in equal number pvp so that they won't need saving - portal is the exact opposite of that, it aims to make a weaker comp win due to outrotating and outnumbering but that's just dumb cus if you're better than your enemy you can just stand on 1 place and win the game like that and portal won't come into play > > > Let me just say that I'm happy portal was limited to a smaller window of play making. However, you're wrong if you think using portal to allow teammates to disengage means your team is not worth saving. And the guy you're replying to is wrong by saying portal was already pretty bad! It's probably the best single skill in game for conquest, but just under utilized in unorganized queues. > > GW2 PvP leaves many people outnumbered/ganked and focus fired by multiple people. Saving them with portal basically negates all of the enemy's offensive cooldowns. Also you can EZ revive an Ele by the downstate Ele and allies all entering a portal to revive in another location. They're good strategies. > > > > This is exactly right. That is why I thought a better fix to portal would be to lower the amount of teammates who could pass through portal in PvP (maybe 2). Mesmer for a long time has been balanced around portal. By lowering the effectiveness of portal in team play while maintaining the solo ability, you make the class easier to balance. However, instead they made it so much more forethought and planning is needed to use portal effectively. Therefore, if portal is used in competitive, team play, there is going to be an even larger discrepancy between team play and solo play while mesmer is STILL balanced around portal if it continues to be used. But alas, the devs leave me disappointed once again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 > @"Xstein.2187" said: > > @"Chaith.8256" said: > > > @"incisorr.9502" said: > > > portal was already pretty bad and i don't understand all the hype around it. People's reasoning on portal is incredibly stupid and the best i heard so far was "if your teammates are dying you can use portal and save them" > > > > > > if your teammates are dying they are garbage and deserve to die. ^That sounds like such a loser thing to say. Why would you need to save your teammates if they are better than the enemy and don't need saving? and with that being said, people should aim to be better than the enemy in equal number pvp so that they won't need saving - portal is the exact opposite of that, it aims to make a weaker comp win due to outrotating and outnumbering but that's just dumb cus if you're better than your enemy you can just stand on 1 place and win the game like that and portal won't come into play > > > > > > Let me just say that I'm happy portal was limited to a smaller window of play making. However, you're wrong if you think using portal to allow teammates to disengage means your team is not worth saving. And the guy you're replying to is wrong by saying portal was already pretty bad! It's probably the best single skill in game for conquest, but just under utilized in unorganized queues. > > > > GW2 PvP leaves many people outnumbered/ganked and focus fired by multiple people. Saving them with portal basically negates all of the enemy's offensive cooldowns. Also you can EZ revive an Ele by the downstate Ele and allies all entering a portal to revive in another location. They're good strategies. > > > > > > > > > This is exactly right. That is why I thought a better fix to portal would be to lower the amount of teammates who could pass through portal in PvP (maybe 2). Mesmer for a long time has been balanced around portal. By lowering the effectiveness of portal in team play while maintaining the solo ability, you make the class easier to balance. However, instead they made it so much more forethought and planning is needed to use portal effectively. Therefore, if portal is used in competitive, team play, there is going to be an even larger discrepancy between team play and solo play while mesmer is STILL balanced around portal if it continues to be used. But alas, the devs leave me disappointed once again. Chaith only mentioned potential team portal plays. Don't forget that a mesmer can take a 1v1 on a node with two options: 1. If he wins: - Cap the point. - Drop portal. - Rotate to team fight. - Portal back to prevent decap from the person on respawn. 2. If he's losing: - Drop portal. - Rotate to team fight. - Portal back once the person capping comes mid (so he's not sitting on the point being useless for 60 seconds while his team is being outnumbered) - Guarantee a decap while potentially saving teammates which then can portal back in with more health + cooldowns onto a still neutral node. This utility was and is still one of the most powerful and impactful skills in Conquest. It's a 72 second cooldown utility that effectively locks down a node for it's duration while providing massive team rotational ability. It's funny seeing mesmer mains trying to downplay this ability lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xstein.2187 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > @"Xstein.2187" said: > > > @"Chaith.8256" said: > > > > @"incisorr.9502" said: > > > > portal was already pretty bad and i don't understand all the hype around it. People's reasoning on portal is incredibly stupid and the best i heard so far was "if your teammates are dying you can use portal and save them" > > > > > > > > if your teammates are dying they are garbage and deserve to die. ^That sounds like such a loser thing to say. Why would you need to save your teammates if they are better than the enemy and don't need saving? and with that being said, people should aim to be better than the enemy in equal number pvp so that they won't need saving - portal is the exact opposite of that, it aims to make a weaker comp win due to outrotating and outnumbering but that's just dumb cus if you're better than your enemy you can just stand on 1 place and win the game like that and portal won't come into play > > > > > > > > > Let me just say that I'm happy portal was limited to a smaller window of play making. However, you're wrong if you think using portal to allow teammates to disengage means your team is not worth saving. And the guy you're replying to is wrong by saying portal was already pretty bad! It's probably the best single skill in game for conquest, but just under utilized in unorganized queues. > > > > > > GW2 PvP leaves many people outnumbered/ganked and focus fired by multiple people. Saving them with portal basically negates all of the enemy's offensive cooldowns. Also you can EZ revive an Ele by the downstate Ele and allies all entering a portal to revive in another location. They're good strategies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is exactly right. That is why I thought a better fix to portal would be to lower the amount of teammates who could pass through portal in PvP (maybe 2). Mesmer for a long time has been balanced around portal. By lowering the effectiveness of portal in team play while maintaining the solo ability, you make the class easier to balance. However, instead they made it so much more forethought and planning is needed to use portal effectively. Therefore, if portal is used in competitive, team play, there is going to be an even larger discrepancy between team play and solo play while mesmer is STILL balanced around portal if it continues to be used. But alas, the devs leave me disappointed once again. > > Chaith only mentioned potential team portal plays. > > Don't forget that a mesmer can take a 1v1 on a node with two options: > > 1. If he wins: > - Cap the point. > - Drop portal. > - Rotate to team fight. > - Portal back to prevent decap from the person on respawn. > > 2. If he's losing: > - Drop portal. > - Rotate to team fight. > - Portal back once the person capping comes mid (so he's not sitting on the point being useless for 60 seconds while his team is being outnumbered) > - Guarantee a decap while potentially saving teammates which then can portal back in with more health + cooldowns onto a still neutral node. > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > @"Xstein.2187" said: > > > @"Chaith.8256" said: > > > > @"incisorr.9502" said: > > > > portal was already pretty bad and i don't understand all the hype around it. People's reasoning on portal is incredibly stupid and the best i heard so far was "if your teammates are dying you can use portal and save them" > > > > > > > > if your teammates are dying they are garbage and deserve to die. ^That sounds like such a loser thing to say. Why would you need to save your teammates if they are better than the enemy and don't need saving? and with that being said, people should aim to be better than the enemy in equal number pvp so that they won't need saving - portal is the exact opposite of that, it aims to make a weaker comp win due to outrotating and outnumbering but that's just dumb cus if you're better than your enemy you can just stand on 1 place and win the game like that and portal won't come into play > > > > > > > > > Let me just say that I'm happy portal was limited to a smaller window of play making. However, you're wrong if you think using portal to allow teammates to disengage means your team is not worth saving. And the guy you're replying to is wrong by saying portal was already pretty bad! It's probably the best single skill in game for conquest, but just under utilized in unorganized queues. > > > > > > GW2 PvP leaves many people outnumbered/ganked and focus fired by multiple people. Saving them with portal basically negates all of the enemy's offensive cooldowns. Also you can EZ revive an Ele by the downstate Ele and allies all entering a portal to revive in another location. They're good strategies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is exactly right. That is why I thought a better fix to portal would be to lower the amount of teammates who could pass through portal in PvP (maybe 2). Mesmer for a long time has been balanced around portal. By lowering the effectiveness of portal in team play while maintaining the solo ability, you make the class easier to balance. However, instead they made it so much more forethought and planning is needed to use portal effectively. Therefore, if portal is used in competitive, team play, there is going to be an even larger discrepancy between team play and solo play while mesmer is STILL balanced around portal if it continues to be used. But alas, the devs leave me disappointed once again. > > Chaith only mentioned potential team portal plays. > > Don't forget that a mesmer can take a 1v1 on a node with two options: > > 1. If he wins: > - Cap the point. > - Drop portal. > - Rotate to team fight. > - Portal back to prevent decap from the person on respawn. > > 2. If he's losing: > - Drop portal. > - Rotate to team fight. > - Portal back once the person capping comes mid (so he's not sitting on the point being useless for 60 seconds while his team is being outnumbered) > - Guarantee a decap while potentially saving teammates which then can portal back in with more health + cooldowns onto a still neutral node. Ya, I know, thanks though. There is still a lager advantage of portal in team vs solo play though. 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shadowpass.4236 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 > @"Xstein.2187" said: > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > @"Xstein.2187" said: > > > > @"Chaith.8256" said: > > > > > @"incisorr.9502" said: > > > > > portal was already pretty bad and i don't understand all the hype around it. People's reasoning on portal is incredibly stupid and the best i heard so far was "if your teammates are dying you can use portal and save them" > > > > > > > > > > if your teammates are dying they are garbage and deserve to die. ^That sounds like such a loser thing to say. Why would you need to save your teammates if they are better than the enemy and don't need saving? and with that being said, people should aim to be better than the enemy in equal number pvp so that they won't need saving - portal is the exact opposite of that, it aims to make a weaker comp win due to outrotating and outnumbering but that's just dumb cus if you're better than your enemy you can just stand on 1 place and win the game like that and portal won't come into play > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me just say that I'm happy portal was limited to a smaller window of play making. However, you're wrong if you think using portal to allow teammates to disengage means your team is not worth saving. And the guy you're replying to is wrong by saying portal was already pretty bad! It's probably the best single skill in game for conquest, but just under utilized in unorganized queues. > > > > > > > > GW2 PvP leaves many people outnumbered/ganked and focus fired by multiple people. Saving them with portal basically negates all of the enemy's offensive cooldowns. Also you can EZ revive an Ele by the downstate Ele and allies all entering a portal to revive in another location. They're good strategies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is exactly right. That is why I thought a better fix to portal would be to lower the amount of teammates who could pass through portal in PvP (maybe 2). Mesmer for a long time has been balanced around portal. By lowering the effectiveness of portal in team play while maintaining the solo ability, you make the class easier to balance. However, instead they made it so much more forethought and planning is needed to use portal effectively. Therefore, if portal is used in competitive, team play, there is going to be an even larger discrepancy between team play and solo play while mesmer is STILL balanced around portal if it continues to be used. But alas, the devs leave me disappointed once again. > > > > Chaith only mentioned potential team portal plays. > > > > Don't forget that a mesmer can take a 1v1 on a node with two options: > > > > 1. If he wins: > > - Cap the point. > > - Drop portal. > > - Rotate to team fight. > > - Portal back to prevent decap from the person on respawn. > > > > 2. If he's losing: > > - Drop portal. > > - Rotate to team fight. > > - Portal back once the person capping comes mid (so he's not sitting on the point being useless for 60 seconds while his team is being outnumbered) > > - Guarantee a decap while potentially saving teammates which then can portal back in with more health + cooldowns onto a still neutral node. > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > @"Xstein.2187" said: > > > > @"Chaith.8256" said: > > > > > @"incisorr.9502" said: > > > > > portal was already pretty bad and i don't understand all the hype around it. People's reasoning on portal is incredibly stupid and the best i heard so far was "if your teammates are dying you can use portal and save them" > > > > > > > > > > if your teammates are dying they are garbage and deserve to die. ^That sounds like such a loser thing to say. Why would you need to save your teammates if they are better than the enemy and don't need saving? and with that being said, people should aim to be better than the enemy in equal number pvp so that they won't need saving - portal is the exact opposite of that, it aims to make a weaker comp win due to outrotating and outnumbering but that's just dumb cus if you're better than your enemy you can just stand on 1 place and win the game like that and portal won't come into play > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me just say that I'm happy portal was limited to a smaller window of play making. However, you're wrong if you think using portal to allow teammates to disengage means your team is not worth saving. And the guy you're replying to is wrong by saying portal was already pretty bad! It's probably the best single skill in game for conquest, but just under utilized in unorganized queues. > > > > > > > > GW2 PvP leaves many people outnumbered/ganked and focus fired by multiple people. Saving them with portal basically negates all of the enemy's offensive cooldowns. Also you can EZ revive an Ele by the downstate Ele and allies all entering a portal to revive in another location. They're good strategies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is exactly right. That is why I thought a better fix to portal would be to lower the amount of teammates who could pass through portal in PvP (maybe 2). Mesmer for a long time has been balanced around portal. By lowering the effectiveness of portal in team play while maintaining the solo ability, you make the class easier to balance. However, instead they made it so much more forethought and planning is needed to use portal effectively. Therefore, if portal is used in competitive, team play, there is going to be an even larger discrepancy between team play and solo play while mesmer is STILL balanced around portal if it continues to be used. But alas, the devs leave me disappointed once again. > > > > Chaith only mentioned potential team portal plays. > > > > Don't forget that a mesmer can take a 1v1 on a node with two options: > > > > 1. If he wins: > > - Cap the point. > > - Drop portal. > > - Rotate to team fight. > > - Portal back to prevent decap from the person on respawn. > > > > 2. If he's losing: > > - Drop portal. > > - Rotate to team fight. > > - Portal back once the person capping comes mid (so he's not sitting on the point being useless for 60 seconds while his team is being outnumbered) > > - Guarantee a decap while potentially saving teammates which then can portal back in with more health + cooldowns onto a still neutral node. > > Ya, I know, thanks though. There is still a lager advantage of portal in team vs solo play though. > Yup. While the advantage is larger in coordinated play, it is still very effective in solo as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadMed.3846 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 This was a much needed Nerf to portal in pvp. Previously, portal offered extremely unfair advantage to the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daishi.6027 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 So... remember those metas where mes were invalidated from the meta, because of everything being worse than the rest of the cast, except portal? I want this to turn out poorly with representation dropping, and A-net to see major statistic changes. Because maybe then they will have hard proof it’s not imba even though so many scrubs cry about it. Fingers crossed that even if we lost portal for good we might have precedent to gain significant baseline power that isn’t so fickle or needing of set up, or blowing so many cool downs that need to land to be effective. You know, like mostly everything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagrant.7206 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 Portal allowed mesmers to literally occupy two spaces at once. If there was an enemy portal down on your point, moving away from it on any other class would guarantee a decap, and possibly a capture for them. There was no counterplay (and still isn't). But now it isn't absolutely awful for classes with low mobility to defend a point that a mesmer has queued a portal onto, while their team gets outnumbered. It also means the mesmer with the portal must move quickly and be sure that they can portal back in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > Portal allowed mesmers to literally occupy two spaces at once. If there was an enemy portal down on your point, moving away from it on any other class would guarantee a decap, and possibly a capture for them. There was no counterplay (and still isn't). But now it isn't absolutely awful for classes with low mobility to defend a point that a mesmer has queued a portal onto, while their team gets outnumbered. It also means the mesmer with the portal must move quickly and be sure that they can portal back in time. Perma stealth Deadeyes can do the exact same thing to you by just running up to a node you're on and stealthing. Leaving you stuck wondering if he's going to leave stealth and decap you as soon as you leave until you see him pop up in another engagement on the map. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airdive.2613 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > Portal allowed mesmers to literally occupy two spaces at once. No matter the situation, mesmers can literally occupy just one space at a time. > If there was an enemy portal down on your point, moving away from it on any other class would guarantee a decap, and possibly a capture for them. There was no counterplay (and still isn't). This isn't quite true. If there is an enemy portal on *your* point, it means the mesmer visited your point and failed to capture it (= you won the skirmish, mesmer's time was lost). Now, they might indeed neutralize the point they recently owned once you leave it, but in the end they spend a rather precious skill to either neutralize a single point (possibly leaving their team outnumbered somewhere else) or stay and capture a single point (leaving their team outnumbered somewhere else for sure). > But now it isn't absolutely awful for classes with low mobility to defend a point that a mesmer has queued a portal onto, while their team gets outnumbered. It also means the mesmer with the portal must move quickly and be sure that they can portal back in time. Well, sort of, but it makes little sense given the opportunistic nature of the skill. The only thing it does is transport people; teleportation is literally the only function of this skill. Teleportation can be utilized well, but can also be failed completely with poor decision making. Ultimately it depends on whether a good moment to open a portal arises, and there's almost no time for such opportune moments to happen within 30 seconds. I mean, yes, you still can purposely transport yourself or your entire team from one node to another, but that's my point: the most straightforward ways to use portal remain roughly the same while more sophisticated decision making took a hit. Please nerf portal, but not like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagrant.7206 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > Portal allowed mesmers to literally occupy two spaces at once. If there was an enemy portal down on your point, moving away from it on any other class would guarantee a decap, and possibly a capture for them. There was no counterplay (and still isn't). But now it isn't absolutely awful for classes with low mobility to defend a point that a mesmer has queued a portal onto, while their team gets outnumbered. It also means the mesmer with the portal must move quickly and be sure that they can portal back in time. > > Perma stealth Deadeyes can do the exact same thing to you by just running up to a node you're on and stealthing. Leaving you stuck wondering if he's going to leave stealth and decap you as soon as you leave until you see him pop up in another engagement on the map. Deadeye has to design most of their build around around perma-stealth for that to happen. They are not doing anything else to pull that kind of move. On the other hand, mesmers just had to use a single skill to do the same exact thing. > @"Airdive.2613" said > No matter the situation, mesmers can literally occupy just one space at a time. You can be obtuse if you want, but I meant *effectively* occupy two spaces at once. > This isn't quite true. > If there is an enemy portal on your point, it means the mesmer visited your point and failed to capture it (= you won the skirmish, mesmer's time was lost). Now, they might indeed neutralize the point they recently owned once you leave it, but in the end they spend a rather precious skill to either neutralize a single point (possibly leaving their team outnumbered somewhere else) or stay and capture a single point (leaving their team outnumbered somewhere else for sure). This play could work both offensively and defensively -- this is what I mean by effectively occupying two spaces at once. If they lost a fight, they could come back later when the other person moved off. Or if they won a point, they could effectively defend that point whilst doing other things. > Well, sort of, but it makes little sense given the opportunistic nature of the skill. The only thing it does is transport people; teleportation is literally the only function of this skill. > Teleportation can be utilized well, but can also be failed completely with poor decision making. Ultimately it depends on whether a good moment to open a portal arises, and there's almost no time for such opportune moments to happen within 30 seconds. > I mean, yes, you still can purposely transport yourself or your entire team from one node to another, but that's my point: the most straightforward ways to use portal remain roughly the same while more sophisticated decision making took a hit. > Please nerf portal, but not like this. The only other method I can think of to "nerf" portal is to allow a team's enemies to take it too, but I don't think that can be coded in, much like you can't pick up other classes environmental weapons. Plus, such a nerf does nothing to prevent the absurd power of juke moves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > Portal allowed mesmers to literally occupy two spaces at once. If there was an enemy portal down on your point, moving away from it on any other class would guarantee a decap, and possibly a capture for them. There was no counterplay (and still isn't). But now it isn't absolutely awful for classes with low mobility to defend a point that a mesmer has queued a portal onto, while their team gets outnumbered. It also means the mesmer with the portal must move quickly and be sure that they can portal back in time. > > > > Perma stealth Deadeyes can do the exact same thing to you by just running up to a node you're on and stealthing. Leaving you stuck wondering if he's going to leave stealth and decap you as soon as you leave until you see him pop up in another engagement on the map. > > Deadeye has to design most of their build around around perma-stealth for that to happen. They are not doing anything else to pull that kind of move. On the other hand, mesmers just had to use a single skill to do the same exact thing. > > > @"Airdive.2613" said > > No matter the situation, mesmers can literally occupy just one space at a time. > > You can be obtuse if you want, but I meant *effectively* occupy two spaces at once. > > > This isn't quite true. > > If there is an enemy portal on your point, it means the mesmer visited your point and failed to capture it (= you won the skirmish, mesmer's time was lost). Now, they might indeed neutralize the point they recently owned once you leave it, but in the end they spend a rather precious skill to either neutralize a single point (possibly leaving their team outnumbered somewhere else) or stay and capture a single point (leaving their team outnumbered somewhere else for sure). > > This play could work both offensively and defensively -- this is what I mean by effectively occupying two spaces at once. If they lost a fight, they could come back later when the other person moved off. Or if they won a point, they could effectively defend that point whilst doing other things. > > > Well, sort of, but it makes little sense given the opportunistic nature of the skill. The only thing it does is transport people; teleportation is literally the only function of this skill. > > Teleportation can be utilized well, but can also be failed completely with poor decision making. Ultimately it depends on whether a good moment to open a portal arises, and there's almost no time for such opportune moments to happen within 30 seconds. > > I mean, yes, you still can purposely transport yourself or your entire team from one node to another, but that's my point: the most straightforward ways to use portal remain roughly the same while more sophisticated decision making took a hit. > > Please nerf portal, but not like this. > > The only other method I can think of to "nerf" portal is to allow a team's enemies to take it too, but I don't think that can be coded in, much like you can't pick up other classes environmental weapons. Plus, such a nerf does nothing to prevent the absurd power of juke moves. You could keep the 60 second duration and bump the cooldown up to 90, 100, 120 seconds. Fun fact, Revenants and Soulbeasts can chase you though portals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteepledHat.1345 Posted December 13, 2018 Author Share Posted December 13, 2018 Portal requires you to sacrifice running to a node, sacrifice a utility slot (Potential stun break, potential condi cleanse, potential engage.), and is on a lonnng 72 second cool down. It's costly for what it does, but what it does is worth it when it's done right. You can't dumbly use portal. You have to be wise about placement and activation. Now you can't even make those choices because it dissipates before you can act in any useful way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroth.4217 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > @"reikken.4961" said: > > it still has an enormous amount of power and potential. It's just less insanely broken > > No. Old portal was drop and leave then use IF needed. New portal is about active use, which is still strong if the player is experienced with pvp. Imo, nothing has changed for a decent player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteepledHat.1345 Posted December 13, 2018 Author Share Posted December 13, 2018 > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > @"reikken.4961" said: > > > it still has an enormous amount of power and potential. It's just less insanely broken > > > > No. > > > Old portal was drop and leave then use IF needed. > New portal is about active use, still strong if the player is experienced with pvp. Well, I'm only plat, but golly I just feel like 30 seconds to run from far to mid leaves me only 15 to do anything useful is kinda a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroth.4217 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 > @"SteepledHat.1345" said: > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > @"reikken.4961" said: > > > > it still has an enormous amount of power and potential. It's just less insanely broken > > > > > > No. > > > > > > Old portal was drop and leave then use IF needed. > > New portal is about active use, still strong if the player is experienced with pvp. > > Well, I'm only plat, but golly I just feel like 30 seconds to run from far to mid leaves me only 15 to do anything useful is kinda a problem. Yea it appears it requires more conviction needed to pull it off effectively or some pre planning and active decision making before dropping the portal... I can see this being an issue for less experienced players such as myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteepledHat.1345 Posted December 13, 2018 Author Share Posted December 13, 2018 > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > @"SteepledHat.1345" said: > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > @"reikken.4961" said: > > > > > it still has an enormous amount of power and potential. It's just less insanely broken > > > > > > > > No. > > > > > > > > > Old portal was drop and leave then use IF needed. > > > New portal is about active use, still strong if the player is experienced with pvp. > > > > Well, I'm only plat, but golly I just feel like 30 seconds to run from far to mid leaves me only 15 to do anything useful is kinda a problem. > > Yea it appears it requires more conviction needed to pull it off effectively or some pre planning and active decision making before dropping the portal... > > I can see this being an issue for less experienced players such as myself. It requires violating the movement speed limitations to use it successfully as it was once. Now there's no way you should take it over other utils. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroth.4217 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 > @"SteepledHat.1345" said: > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > @"SteepledHat.1345" said: > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > @"reikken.4961" said: > > > > > > it still has an enormous amount of power and potential. It's just less insanely broken > > > > > > > > > > No. > > > > > > > > > > > > Old portal was drop and leave then use IF needed. > > > > New portal is about active use, still strong if the player is experienced with pvp. > > > > > > Well, I'm only plat, but golly I just feel like 30 seconds to run from far to mid leaves me only 15 to do anything useful is kinda a problem. > > > > Yea it appears it requires more conviction needed to pull it off effectively or some pre planning and active decision making before dropping the portal... > > > > I can see this being an issue for less experienced players such as myself. > > It requires violating the movement speed limitations to use it successfully as it was once. Now there's no way you should take it over other utils. Im still gunna take it from time to time when I duo, always found it handy to leave a port on home for the guy capping then portal him strait to mid once the cap is completed or to run a port from mid to far to help team mates rotate back into the fight quicker.. Im just a scrub though, but I can still see its potential. The only thing it changes for me is that I cant drop it on a point as a "just in case" situation, being that I could use it to escape bad fights or in case the point becomes contested. No more over commitments in fights for easy bail outs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > @"SteepledHat.1345" said: > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > @"SteepledHat.1345" said: > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > @"reikken.4961" said: > > > > > > > it still has an enormous amount of power and potential. It's just less insanely broken > > > > > > > > > > > > No. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Old portal was drop and leave then use IF needed. > > > > > New portal is about active use, still strong if the player is experienced with pvp. > > > > > > > > Well, I'm only plat, but golly I just feel like 30 seconds to run from far to mid leaves me only 15 to do anything useful is kinda a problem. > > > > > > Yea it appears it requires more conviction needed to pull it off effectively or some pre planning and active decision making before dropping the portal... > > > > > > I can see this being an issue for less experienced players such as myself. > > > > It requires violating the movement speed limitations to use it successfully as it was once. Now there's no way you should take it over other utils. > > Im still gunna take it from time to time when I duo, always found it handy to leave a port on home for the guy capping then portal him strait to mid once the cap is completed or to run a port from mid to far to help team mates rotate back into the fight quicker.. > > Im just a scrub though, but I can still see its potential. > > The only thing it changes for me is that I cant drop it on a point as a "just in case" situation, being that I could use it to escape bad fights or in case the point becomes contested. No more over commitments in fights for easy bail outs. Neither of these are particularly good uses of portal as the time you've "saved" for your teammate is time you yourself spent away from the main engagements you could have been involved in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroth.4217 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > @"SteepledHat.1345" said: > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > @"SteepledHat.1345" said: > > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > @"reikken.4961" said: > > > > > > > > it still has an enormous amount of power and potential. It's just less insanely broken > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Old portal was drop and leave then use IF needed. > > > > > > New portal is about active use, still strong if the player is experienced with pvp. > > > > > > > > > > Well, I'm only plat, but golly I just feel like 30 seconds to run from far to mid leaves me only 15 to do anything useful is kinda a problem. > > > > > > > > Yea it appears it requires more conviction needed to pull it off effectively or some pre planning and active decision making before dropping the portal... > > > > > > > > I can see this being an issue for less experienced players such as myself. > > > > > > It requires violating the movement speed limitations to use it successfully as it was once. Now there's no way you should take it over other utils. > > > > Im still gunna take it from time to time when I duo, always found it handy to leave a port on home for the guy capping then portal him strait to mid once the cap is completed or to run a port from mid to far to help team mates rotate back into the fight quicker.. > > > > Im just a scrub though, but I can still see its potential. > > > > The only thing it changes for me is that I cant drop it on a point as a "just in case" situation, being that I could use it to escape bad fights or in case the point becomes contested. No more over commitments in fights for easy bail outs. > > Neither of these are particularly good uses of portal as the time you've "saved" for your teammate is time you yourself spent away from the main engagements you could have been involved in. It appears you misread. Either that or youve thrown logic out of the window. Im just a scrub, I present 2 examples of many that I thought of and do myself, im sure a player of your stature could present many more. Just in case you did misread, there are no engagements happening when I presented those 2 examples, I just used purely rotational examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > @"SteepledHat.1345" said: > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > > @"SteepledHat.1345" said: > > > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > @"reikken.4961" said: > > > > > > > > > it still has an enormous amount of power and potential. It's just less insanely broken > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Old portal was drop and leave then use IF needed. > > > > > > > New portal is about active use, still strong if the player is experienced with pvp. > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, I'm only plat, but golly I just feel like 30 seconds to run from far to mid leaves me only 15 to do anything useful is kinda a problem. > > > > > > > > > > Yea it appears it requires more conviction needed to pull it off effectively or some pre planning and active decision making before dropping the portal... > > > > > > > > > > I can see this being an issue for less experienced players such as myself. > > > > > > > > It requires violating the movement speed limitations to use it successfully as it was once. Now there's no way you should take it over other utils. > > > > > > Im still gunna take it from time to time when I duo, always found it handy to leave a port on home for the guy capping then portal him strait to mid once the cap is completed or to run a port from mid to far to help team mates rotate back into the fight quicker.. > > > > > > Im just a scrub though, but I can still see its potential. > > > > > > The only thing it changes for me is that I cant drop it on a point as a "just in case" situation, being that I could use it to escape bad fights or in case the point becomes contested. No more over commitments in fights for easy bail outs. > > > > Neither of these are particularly good uses of portal as the time you've "saved" for your teammate is time you yourself spent away from the main engagements you could have been involved in. > > It appears you misread. > For example you going close along side the person who will be capping home so you can portal him to mid "quicker". This is the play you described. The time spent setting up the portal is time spent away from the rest of the team -2. You didn't actually save anyone a walk from close to home. You just did the walk instead of the person capping close. Just for example on Foefire it takes about 15 seconds to run from spawn to base, 15 seconds to run from spawn to home and 15 seconds to run from home to mid. Instead of going from spawn to mid or spawn to home, you're going from spawn to home to mid, spending about 30 seconds to get the mid fight, leaving the team -2 for 15 seconds when the could have had even numbers in the fight. A better use of portal was to send the mesmer home, have equal numbers mid, have the mesmer drop portal on home and come mid. This was the team isn't ever outnumbered anywhere, and if the mid fight goes south the mesmer could rescue their team by dropping a portal from mid to home, allowing their team to retreat, resustain and portal back to the midfight fresh again. This actually maximizes travel speed of your comp and why mesmer almost always goes home at the start of the game. But team fights are sometimes explosive affairs and other times they are long, drawn out ones. And there's going to be a lot of times where this play will fail more times that they help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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