Full Counter damage below auto attacks.

[Rysdude.3824]

Can we rename it from Full Counter to “Almost Halfway to a Full Counter?”

[Stand The Wall.6987]

but the daze is 1.5s now

[Red Haired Savage.5430]

People that keep saying that the daze is now longer, you do realize that this daze does NOTHING if they have stability. It doesn't proc attacker's insight to remove boons, it only removes 1 stack of stability, something that any other profession does with a normal CC, honestly AA is a horrible trait if the enemy has access to stability. It's now a burst skill that does less damage that our pitiful auto attack on even dagger.

[Strages.2950]

> @"Henry.5713" said:

> This is the fourth nerf to Full Counter:

>

> 1. _December 11, 2018_

> The damage applied by this skill in competitive modes has been reduced from 75% of PvE to 25% of PvE. Its daze duration in competitive game modes has been increased to 1.5 seconds.

> 2. _March 27, 2018_

> Reduced damage by 14% in PvP and WvW.

> 3. _November 07, 2017_

> Increased recharge from 8 seconds to 12 seconds in PvP and WvW only.

> 4. _October 17, 2017_

> Fixed a bug in which this ability gained the damage bonus from Revenge Counter twice.The base damage of this ability has been reduced by 12.5% in PvP and WvW only.

>

> Even more if we include the Full Counter traits:

>

> 5. _November 07, 2017_

> Reduced the number of conditions transferred from 5 to 3 in PvP and WvW only.

>

> Reminds me a bit of what happened to Berserker. Might be an indication that an expansion is around the corner to make room for something new and even more broken. On a serious note, probably one of the most nerfed skills since Steal. Pretty much what happens when you design a spec around the use of a single mechanic when half of the people just can't deal with it.

 

Basically everything spellbreaker has been nerfed. Break enchantments had a 50% damage nerf, Featherfoot grace got a 10 second cooldown increase, Breaching strike got a 20% damage nerf....

 

I get that the class was overtuned at one point, but this last nerf just kicked SB's teeth in.

[Laughingman.9537]

I tried using mesmer runes just to see if I could extend the daze to 2 seconds and apparently doesnt work, I was not even surprised lol

[TheBravery.9615]

They will probably nerf sight beyond sights next

[lodjur.1284]

I got hit for a 672 damage full counter in WvW today from a full zerk spellbreaker, was kinda cute. The damage seems overnerfed. The only nerf I would have liked to see to full counter (and that should have been instead of many of the damage nerfs) is to not make it trigger the damage portion (still give damage immunity) from skills like wells, symbols and similar. Before anyone says anything, no stepping into that already laid down symbol isn't incredibly clever, it's obvious. But people who keep attacking a full countering spellbreaker with single target skills deserve to eat a pretty hard hit.

[Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485]

> @"lodjur.1284" said:

> I got hit for a 672 damage full counter in WvW today from a full zerk spellbreaker, was kinda cute. The damage seems overnerfed. The only nerf I would have liked to see to full counter (and that should have been instead of many of the damage nerfs) is to not make it trigger the damage portion (still give damage immunity) from skills like wells, symbols and similar. Before anyone says anything, no stepping into that already laid down symbol isn't incredibly clever, it's obvious. But people who keep attacking a full countering spellbreaker with single target skills deserve to eat a pretty hard hit.

 

that is part of the point though. It was meant to punish symbol trap and attack spam. Try being more thoughtful about your symbol or trap placement. No one is claiming to be smart for punishing your lack of foresight.

 

[Curennos.9307]

Now when I see an enemy warrior heading towards mid, I don't get that small tug in my stomach anymore that I do when seeing other classes that, while the build may not be meta, is still feared to a certain extent.

 

Spellbreaker feels like a declawed cat (kitten?) now.

[lodjur.1284]

> @"Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485" said:

> > @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > I got hit for a 672 damage full counter in WvW today from a full zerk spellbreaker, was kinda cute. The damage seems overnerfed. The only nerf I would have liked to see to full counter (and that should have been instead of many of the damage nerfs) is to not make it trigger the damage portion (still give damage immunity) from skills like wells, symbols and similar. Before anyone says anything, no stepping into that already laid down symbol isn't incredibly clever, it's obvious. But people who keep attacking a full countering spellbreaker with single target skills deserve to eat a pretty hard hit.

>

> that is part of the point though. It was meant to punish symbol trap and attack spam. Try being more thoughtful about your symbol or trap placement. No one is claiming to be smart for punishing your lack of foresight.

>

 

Except the "counter" would be I can't use any of these skills at all as long as there's a spellbreaker on the enemy team, that's a super simple counter, yet one that adds no decision making to the game

[losingcontrol.1084]

Spellbreaker was really balanced in the meta with the new tetherbreaker, it wasn't the usual double passive carrying build, and it was rewarding and based on the player skill, and what they did? Nerfed both full counter and megabane and buffed that retard brainless boonbeast even more.

Now even a 10yo can play boonbeast and get up to plat and feel proud.

 

Bu yeah let's nerf warrior because it was a really serious problem in comps yeah...

 

Next time they will get rid of the damage completely, then they will get rid of the daze too.

[Rysdude.3824]

> @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > @"Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485" said:

> > > @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > > I got hit for a 672 damage full counter in WvW today from a full zerk spellbreaker, was kinda cute. The damage seems overnerfed. The only nerf I would have liked to see to full counter (and that should have been instead of many of the damage nerfs) is to not make it trigger the damage portion (still give damage immunity) from skills like wells, symbols and similar. Before anyone says anything, no stepping into that already laid down symbol isn't incredibly clever, it's obvious. But people who keep attacking a full countering spellbreaker with single target skills deserve to eat a pretty hard hit.

> >

> > that is part of the point though. It was meant to punish symbol trap and attack spam. Try being more thoughtful about your symbol or trap placement. No one is claiming to be smart for punishing your lack of foresight.

> >

>

> Except the "counter" would be I can't use any of these skills at all as long as there's a spellbreaker on the enemy team, that's a super simple counter, yet one that adds no decision making to the game

 

So one skill would stop the use of all of yours?

 

[Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485]

> @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > @"Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485" said:

> > > @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > > I got hit for a 672 damage full counter in WvW today from a full zerk spellbreaker, was kinda cute. The damage seems overnerfed. The only nerf I would have liked to see to full counter (and that should have been instead of many of the damage nerfs) is to not make it trigger the damage portion (still give damage immunity) from skills like wells, symbols and similar. Before anyone says anything, no stepping into that already laid down symbol isn't incredibly clever, it's obvious. But people who keep attacking a full countering spellbreaker with single target skills deserve to eat a pretty hard hit.

> >

> > that is part of the point though. It was meant to punish symbol trap and attack spam. Try being more thoughtful about your symbol or trap placement. No one is claiming to be smart for punishing your lack of foresight.

> >

>

> Except the "counter" would be I can't use any of these skills at all as long as there's a spellbreaker on the enemy team, that's a super simple counter, yet one that adds no decision making to the game

 

why are you placing them as traps in that case, and why are you standing in range of them that they are causing you problems? You are making bad decisions.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

> @"spartan.9421" said:

> > @"Spartacus.3192" said:

> > i'll be honest and say FC hit too hard for everything ELSE the skill does. I mean come on if traited (and most builds will use those traits) it gives....

> >

> > Absorbs attack

> > Dazes enemy

> > Gives Protection

> > Removes 1 boon per interrupted enemy

> > Gives adrenaline per boon removed and does additional damage per boon removed

> > Gives you a stack of attackers insight

> > and then if you take revenge counter will give resistance copies condis and does extra damage

> > OR magebane, 10% extra damage, might stacking, pulsing reveal and a pull.

> >

> > Thats a heck of a lot of stuff for one skill on a ~10 sec cd.

> >

> > Did they over nerf the damage?.....Agreed. Is it the end of the world? No.

> >

>

> Wow! It's almost as if the skill was designed to punish players for triggering it, go figure!

>

> It only absorbs one attack if the skill is triggered, only dazes (used to be a .5 second daze, now is 1.5 seconds) if the hit lands, only removes boons if the hit lands, only gives adrenaline per boon if it lands IF traited, only copies three conditions (not transfer, mind you) with only 2 whopping seconds of resistance, and magebane only triggers if the hit lands.

 

 

"If if Only only" "If it land" .... Like ... ALL attacks ?? :# :# So all skills are weak because it needs to hit the enemy to do dmg ???

Because people spam it rashly doesn't mean all these effect are useless or low.

[spartan.9421]

> @"Zhaid Zhem.6508" said:

> > @"spartan.9421" said:

> > > @"Spartacus.3192" said:

> > > i'll be honest and say FC hit too hard for everything ELSE the skill does. I mean come on if traited (and most builds will use those traits) it gives....

> > >

> > > Absorbs attack

> > > Dazes enemy

> > > Gives Protection

> > > Removes 1 boon per interrupted enemy

> > > Gives adrenaline per boon removed and does additional damage per boon removed

> > > Gives you a stack of attackers insight

> > > and then if you take revenge counter will give resistance copies condis and does extra damage

> > > OR magebane, 10% extra damage, might stacking, pulsing reveal and a pull.

> > >

> > > Thats a heck of a lot of stuff for one skill on a ~10 sec cd.

> > >

> > > Did they over nerf the damage?.....Agreed. Is it the end of the world? No.

> > >

> >

> > Wow! It's almost as if the skill was designed to punish players for triggering it, go figure!

> >

> > It only absorbs one attack if the skill is triggered, only dazes (used to be a .5 second daze, now is 1.5 seconds) if the hit lands, only removes boons if the hit lands, only gives adrenaline per boon if it lands IF traited, only copies three conditions (not transfer, mind you) with only 2 whopping seconds of resistance, and magebane only triggers if the hit lands.

>

>

> "If if Only only" "If it land" .... Like ... ALL attacks ?? :# :# So all skills are weak because it needs to hit the enemy to do dmg ???

> Because people spam it rashly doesn't mean all these effect are useless or low.

 

This skill is really easy to dodge/avoid if you aren't bad at the game. Trigger it at range, don't spam attacks, learn to stow weapon, dodge.

 

Buuuut complaining is much easier than any of this.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

I don't complain, on contrary I laugh on warriors who spam FC every time gated 10sec without consideration of enemy's skills and attitude. Like "OMG it's off CD, better press the key .... huh it's not effective, thank Anet".

[Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485]

> @"Zhaid Zhem.6508" said:

> I don't complain, on contrary I laugh on warriors who spam FC every time gated 10sec without consideration of enemy's skills and attitude. Like "OMG it's off CD, better press the key .... huh it's not effective, thank Anet".

 

that was before, now its never effective unless the enemy is running no stun break or unending stability. Pretty funny ~~and useless~~ for a elite mechanic.

[Atticus.7194]

> @"Zhaid Zhem.6508" said:

> I don't complain, on contrary I laugh on warriors who spam FC every time gated 10sec without consideration of enemy's skills and attitude. Like "OMG it's off CD, better press the key .... huh it's not effective, thank Anet".

 

Uh, most of the time what's what you're supposed to do to reset burst skills and get adrenal health up. Sure often you'd like to wait for the most opportune moment to use it but sometimes you just have to, to survive and get going.

 

That aside

 

I honestly think they should just remove damage on full counter all together, remove it from break enchantments, and just make winds of disenchantment a big aoe missile reflect sphere. The theme of spellbreaker to remove boons as been so hilariously corrupted and broken that it is non functional so stop trying to make anything overcomplicated and just make us grant boons instead of removing them and doing damage. That way we'll at least have a damage build (core war) or a full support boonbot build that might be useful in modes cause right now there is absolutetly zero reason to play spellbreaker in any competitive mode.

 

I was just playing wvw and I was doing 900-1200 spellbreaks, it's an absolute joke, most players don't even consider that damage and I noticed ZERO difference with the extra daze duration, none.

 

 

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

I 've never pretended that, not even mention it, but saying FC is now useless and for argument "it needs to hit" ... no.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

rippy mc ripperson


 

[lodjur.1284]

> @"Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485" said:

> > @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > > @"Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485" said:

> > > > @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > > > I got hit for a 672 damage full counter in WvW today from a full zerk spellbreaker, was kinda cute. The damage seems overnerfed. The only nerf I would have liked to see to full counter (and that should have been instead of many of the damage nerfs) is to not make it trigger the damage portion (still give damage immunity) from skills like wells, symbols and similar. Before anyone says anything, no stepping into that already laid down symbol isn't incredibly clever, it's obvious. But people who keep attacking a full countering spellbreaker with single target skills deserve to eat a pretty hard hit.

> > >

> > > that is part of the point though. It was meant to punish symbol trap and attack spam. Try being more thoughtful about your symbol or trap placement. No one is claiming to be smart for punishing your lack of foresight.

> > >

> >

> > Except the "counter" would be I can't use any of these skills at all as long as there's a spellbreaker on the enemy team, that's a super simple counter, yet one that adds no decision making to the game

>

> why are you placing them as traps in that case, and why are you standing in range of them that they are causing you problems? You are making bad decisions.

 

That's exactly my point, the best decisions becomes to the decisions become

 

A Spam my Symbols/Wells/Whatever and hope for the best because whatever I am playing simply doesn't remotely work w/o doing so (something like greatsword power reaper with 1+ wells would be an example, old symbolic DH tho would be another even tho that's no longer a thing really)

 

B Completely ignore the fact that I even have these skills because their use is detrimental and only use them while full counter is on CD, which depending on what you play might just be never.

 

This isn't even the biggest design issue with it, another problem with it is that I get punished for my allies being bad, more so than usual, even when I stow weapon and look at the spellbreaker stand there like an idiot I can get punished because my teammates decides that attacking them is a great a idea

[Atticus.7194]

> @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > @"Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485" said:

> > > @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > > > @"Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485" said:

> > > > > @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > > > > I got hit for a 672 damage full counter in WvW today from a full zerk spellbreaker, was kinda cute. The damage seems overnerfed. The only nerf I would have liked to see to full counter (and that should have been instead of many of the damage nerfs) is to not make it trigger the damage portion (still give damage immunity) from skills like wells, symbols and similar. Before anyone says anything, no stepping into that already laid down symbol isn't incredibly clever, it's obvious. But people who keep attacking a full countering spellbreaker with single target skills deserve to eat a pretty hard hit.

> > > >

> > > > that is part of the point though. It was meant to punish symbol trap and attack spam. Try being more thoughtful about your symbol or trap placement. No one is claiming to be smart for punishing your lack of foresight.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Except the "counter" would be I can't use any of these skills at all as long as there's a spellbreaker on the enemy team, that's a super simple counter, yet one that adds no decision making to the game

> >

> > why are you placing them as traps in that case, and why are you standing in range of them that they are causing you problems? You are making bad decisions.

>

> That's exactly my point, the best decisions becomes to the decisions become

>

> A Spam my Symbols/Wells/Whatever and hope for the best because whatever I am playing simply doesn't remotely work w/o doing so (something like greatsword power reaper with 1+ wells would be an example, old symbolic DH tho would be another even tho that's no longer a thing really)

>

> B Completely ignore the fact that I even have these skills because their use is detrimental and only use them while full counter is on CD, which depending on what you play might just be never.

>

> This isn't even the biggest design issue with it, another problem with it is that I get punished for my allies being bad, more so than usual, even when I stow weapon and look at the spellbreaker stand there like an idiot I can get punished because my teammates decides that attacking them is a great a idea

 

So you think the solution to that is to geld the ability all together and effectively remove all damage from it? Well I'm glad it's not an issue for you fighting a spellbreaker but it is an issue for all the people that want to play one.

[Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485]

> @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > @"Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485" said:

> > > @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > > > @"Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485" said:

> > > > > @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > > > > I got hit for a 672 damage full counter in WvW today from a full zerk spellbreaker, was kinda cute. The damage seems overnerfed. The only nerf I would have liked to see to full counter (and that should have been instead of many of the damage nerfs) is to not make it trigger the damage portion (still give damage immunity) from skills like wells, symbols and similar. Before anyone says anything, no stepping into that already laid down symbol isn't incredibly clever, it's obvious. But people who keep attacking a full countering spellbreaker with single target skills deserve to eat a pretty hard hit.

> > > >

> > > > that is part of the point though. It was meant to punish symbol trap and attack spam. Try being more thoughtful about your symbol or trap placement. No one is claiming to be smart for punishing your lack of foresight.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Except the "counter" would be I can't use any of these skills at all as long as there's a spellbreaker on the enemy team, that's a super simple counter, yet one that adds no decision making to the game

> >

> > why are you placing them as traps in that case, and why are you standing in range of them that they are causing you problems? You are making bad decisions.

>

> That's exactly my point, the best decisions becomes to the decisions become

>

> A Spam my Symbols/Wells/Whatever and hope for the best because whatever I am playing simply doesn't remotely work w/o doing so (something like greatsword power reaper with 1+ wells would be an example, old symbolic DH tho would be another even tho that's no longer a thing really)

>

> B Completely ignore the fact that I even have these skills because their use is detrimental and only use them while full counter is on CD, which depending on what you play might just be never.

>

> This isn't even the biggest design issue with it, another problem with it is that I get punished for my allies being bad, more so than usual, even when I stow weapon and look at the spellbreaker stand there like an idiot I can get punished because my teammates decides that attacking them is a great a idea

 

you cant blame the skill for bad teammates.

[lodjur.1284]

> @"Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485" said:

> > @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > > @"Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485" said:

> > > > @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > > > > @"Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485" said:

> > > > > > @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > > > > > I got hit for a 672 damage full counter in WvW today from a full zerk spellbreaker, was kinda cute. The damage seems overnerfed. The only nerf I would have liked to see to full counter (and that should have been instead of many of the damage nerfs) is to not make it trigger the damage portion (still give damage immunity) from skills like wells, symbols and similar. Before anyone says anything, no stepping into that already laid down symbol isn't incredibly clever, it's obvious. But people who keep attacking a full countering spellbreaker with single target skills deserve to eat a pretty hard hit.

> > > > >

> > > > > that is part of the point though. It was meant to punish symbol trap and attack spam. Try being more thoughtful about your symbol or trap placement. No one is claiming to be smart for punishing your lack of foresight.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Except the "counter" would be I can't use any of these skills at all as long as there's a spellbreaker on the enemy team, that's a super simple counter, yet one that adds no decision making to the game

> > >

> > > why are you placing them as traps in that case, and why are you standing in range of them that they are causing you problems? You are making bad decisions.

> >

> > That's exactly my point, the best decisions becomes to the decisions become

> >

> > A Spam my Symbols/Wells/Whatever and hope for the best because whatever I am playing simply doesn't remotely work w/o doing so (something like greatsword power reaper with 1+ wells would be an example, old symbolic DH tho would be another even tho that's no longer a thing really)

> >

> > B Completely ignore the fact that I even have these skills because their use is detrimental and only use them while full counter is on CD, which depending on what you play might just be never.

> >

> > This isn't even the biggest design issue with it, another problem with it is that I get punished for my allies being bad, more so than usual, even when I stow weapon and look at the spellbreaker stand there like an idiot I can get punished because my teammates decides that attacking them is a great a idea

>

> you cant blame the skill for bad teammates.

 

Yet that's pretty poor design, at least if I can't pick my teammates... Afaik there's no other skill that actively punishes you for having someone bad near you (at least not in a way that matters).

 

> @"Atticus.7194" said:

> > @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > > @"Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485" said:

> > > > @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > > > > @"Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485" said:

> > > > > > @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > > > > > I got hit for a 672 damage full counter in WvW today from a full zerk spellbreaker, was kinda cute. The damage seems overnerfed. The only nerf I would have liked to see to full counter (and that should have been instead of many of the damage nerfs) is to not make it trigger the damage portion (still give damage immunity) from skills like wells, symbols and similar. Before anyone says anything, no stepping into that already laid down symbol isn't incredibly clever, it's obvious. But people who keep attacking a full countering spellbreaker with single target skills deserve to eat a pretty hard hit.

> > > > >

> > > > > that is part of the point though. It was meant to punish symbol trap and attack spam. Try being more thoughtful about your symbol or trap placement. No one is claiming to be smart for punishing your lack of foresight.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Except the "counter" would be I can't use any of these skills at all as long as there's a spellbreaker on the enemy team, that's a super simple counter, yet one that adds no decision making to the game

> > >

> > > why are you placing them as traps in that case, and why are you standing in range of them that they are causing you problems? You are making bad decisions.

> >

> > That's exactly my point, the best decisions becomes to the decisions become

> >

> > A Spam my Symbols/Wells/Whatever and hope for the best because whatever I am playing simply doesn't remotely work w/o doing so (something like greatsword power reaper with 1+ wells would be an example, old symbolic DH tho would be another even tho that's no longer a thing really)

> >

> > B Completely ignore the fact that I even have these skills because their use is detrimental and only use them while full counter is on CD, which depending on what you play might just be never.

> >

> > This isn't even the biggest design issue with it, another problem with it is that I get punished for my allies being bad, more so than usual, even when I stow weapon and look at the spellbreaker stand there like an idiot I can get punished because my teammates decides that attacking them is a great a idea

>

> So you think the solution to that is to geld the ability all together and effectively remove all damage from it? Well I'm glad it's not an issue for you fighting a spellbreaker but it is an issue for all the people that want to play one.

 

I think the skill needs to be buffed from the current state which I very clearly stated, the dmg is a joke, making it only trigger from single target skills would allow them to imo raise it to 100% of PvE damage instead of 25%. It should still give damage immunity vs AoE

[Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485]

> @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > @"Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485" said:

> > > @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > > > @"Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485" said:

> > > > > @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > > > > > @"Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485" said:

> > > > > > > @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > > > > > > I got hit for a 672 damage full counter in WvW today from a full zerk spellbreaker, was kinda cute. The damage seems overnerfed. The only nerf I would have liked to see to full counter (and that should have been instead of many of the damage nerfs) is to not make it trigger the damage portion (still give damage immunity) from skills like wells, symbols and similar. Before anyone says anything, no stepping into that already laid down symbol isn't incredibly clever, it's obvious. But people who keep attacking a full countering spellbreaker with single target skills deserve to eat a pretty hard hit.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > that is part of the point though. It was meant to punish symbol trap and attack spam. Try being more thoughtful about your symbol or trap placement. No one is claiming to be smart for punishing your lack of foresight.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Except the "counter" would be I can't use any of these skills at all as long as there's a spellbreaker on the enemy team, that's a super simple counter, yet one that adds no decision making to the game

> > > >

> > > > why are you placing them as traps in that case, and why are you standing in range of them that they are causing you problems? You are making bad decisions.

> > >

> > > That's exactly my point, the best decisions becomes to the decisions become

> > >

> > > A Spam my Symbols/Wells/Whatever and hope for the best because whatever I am playing simply doesn't remotely work w/o doing so (something like greatsword power reaper with 1+ wells would be an example, old symbolic DH tho would be another even tho that's no longer a thing really)

> > >

> > > B Completely ignore the fact that I even have these skills because their use is detrimental and only use them while full counter is on CD, which depending on what you play might just be never.

> > >

> > > This isn't even the biggest design issue with it, another problem with it is that I get punished for my allies being bad, more so than usual, even when I stow weapon and look at the spellbreaker stand there like an idiot I can get punished because my teammates decides that attacking them is a great a idea

> >

> > you cant blame the skill for bad teammates.

>

> Yet that's pretty poor design, at least if I can't pick my teammates... Afaik there's no other skill that actively punishes you for having someone bad near you (at least not in a way that matters).

>

> > @"Atticus.7194" said:

> > > @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > > > @"Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485" said:

> > > > > @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > > > > > @"Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485" said:

> > > > > > > @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > > > > > > I got hit for a 672 damage full counter in WvW today from a full zerk spellbreaker, was kinda cute. The damage seems overnerfed. The only nerf I would have liked to see to full counter (and that should have been instead of many of the damage nerfs) is to not make it trigger the damage portion (still give damage immunity) from skills like wells, symbols and similar. Before anyone says anything, no stepping into that already laid down symbol isn't incredibly clever, it's obvious. But people who keep attacking a full countering spellbreaker with single target skills deserve to eat a pretty hard hit.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > that is part of the point though. It was meant to punish symbol trap and attack spam. Try being more thoughtful about your symbol or trap placement. No one is claiming to be smart for punishing your lack of foresight.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Except the "counter" would be I can't use any of these skills at all as long as there's a spellbreaker on the enemy team, that's a super simple counter, yet one that adds no decision making to the game

> > > >

> > > > why are you placing them as traps in that case, and why are you standing in range of them that they are causing you problems? You are making bad decisions.

> > >

> > > That's exactly my point, the best decisions becomes to the decisions become

> > >

> > > A Spam my Symbols/Wells/Whatever and hope for the best because whatever I am playing simply doesn't remotely work w/o doing so (something like greatsword power reaper with 1+ wells would be an example, old symbolic DH tho would be another even tho that's no longer a thing really)

> > >

> > > B Completely ignore the fact that I even have these skills because their use is detrimental and only use them while full counter is on CD, which depending on what you play might just be never.

> > >

> > > This isn't even the biggest design issue with it, another problem with it is that I get punished for my allies being bad, more so than usual, even when I stow weapon and look at the spellbreaker stand there like an idiot I can get punished because my teammates decides that attacking them is a great a idea

> >

> > So you think the solution to that is to geld the ability all together and effectively remove all damage from it? Well I'm glad it's not an issue for you fighting a spellbreaker but it is an issue for all the people that want to play one.

>

> I think the skill needs to be buffed from the current state which I very clearly stated, the dmg is a joke, making it only trigger from single target skills would allow them to imo raise it to 100% of PvE damage instead of 25%. It should still give damage immunity vs AoE

 

The design is perfectly fine. Your terrible teammate is not the only one punishing you, you yourself are the root cause of being punished in the end. You who placed yourself in range while working with a teammate who you do not trust to deal with the situation well, you who are not spatially aware enough to mitigate the danger with good placement and dodges.

Is the game badly designed because having bad teammates means you lose a point? Because you lose a battle? When they make a obvious winning team fight into a loss due to their own incompetence?

 

Its time to stop misplacing the blame from a skill working as intended and instead onto the person who caused the skill to catch your unprepared butt.