Short term plans?

[shiri.4257]

The question is not what wvw can do for you. But what you can do for wvw.

[LightBrave.5638]

Ah so the assertion here is WvW does generate money? So then ANET is either negligent or incompetent. That right? ANET will do as little as it has to do to make sure WvW moves forward. You all posting how you spend money and only play WvW in a WvW forum where only 5 of you post is not reassuring. You may be right, that NEW people are still playing WvW. But I assure you that the DECAY rate is HIGHER than the new player rate. I would indeed place money on that bet. I believe there were calls for 3 Tiers not 4? We are sure we can't move back to 5 yet with all these new players? hmm

[Gemnaid.4219]

> @"Substance E.4852" said:

> > @"oOStaticOo.9467" said:

> > They don't have to answer to the players. It's their game.

>

> Grade A business model there.

 

It’s actually “Business model of the year, 2018”

[oOStaticOo.9467]

> @"Kilo.2539" said:

> > @"oOStaticOo.9467" said:

> > > @"Kilo.2539" said:

> > > > @"oOStaticOo.9467" said:

> > > > They don't have to answer to the players. It's their game. They can dish out information when and if they want. You don't own a majority stock in the company so you can't make demands of them. Just be happy with any information they give us and deal with it.

> > >

> > > Where did I demand anything? I asked a question which is the god kitten purpose of online forums. I won’t “just be happy” because I’m a paying customer who’s not happy. Gfy.

> >

> > You are a "one time" paying customer. You bought the game and then you don't have to pay another penny after that. If you choose to do so then that is on you. If you are not happy with the product you purchase then you don't have to use the product and can go somewhere else and try something else instead. Sorry I struck a nerve there fella, just stating the facts.

>

> I've probably spent more on this franchise then you make in 6 months, fella.

 

Nice assumption. However, still does not negate my saying that you pay one time for the game. After that whatever you spend is entirely on you. You do not have to buy HoT or PoF to play this game or WvW. Does it help? Sure. But you still don't have to buy them. Anything else you buy from the gem store is purely cosmetic. Nothing gives you an advantage over the next player from the gem store.

[TinkTinkPOOF.9201]

> @"LightBrave.5638" said:

> Ah so the assertion here is WvW does generate money? So then ANET is either negligent or incompetent. That right? ANET will do as little as it has to do to make sure WvW moves forward. You all posting how you spend money and only play WvW in a WvW forum where only 5 of you post is not reassuring. You may be right, that NEW people are still playing WvW. But I assure you that the DECAY rate is HIGHER than the new player rate. I would indeed place money on that bet. I believe there were calls for 3 Tiers not 4? We are sure we can't move back to 5 yet with all these new players? hmm

 

Most WvW players don't come here, and the ones who do go on forums, don't come to the official forums. Most people stick to server Discords. One of the main reasons for this is the very little interaction the WvW section gets from anet (among other things). PvE forums? first page has 7+ threads with posts from anet employees, WvW section has one, and that one post is actually an "update" post that has taken 6 months to make. Even when WvW was very active, with queues on every map for most of the day no matter the server, the main complaint people had was zero communication to the WvW community, and lack of notice for changes, or changes not even listed in patch notes when they happened.

 

[Kilo.2539]

> @"oOStaticOo.9467" said:

> > @"Kilo.2539" said:

> > > @"oOStaticOo.9467" said:

> > > > @"Kilo.2539" said:

> > > > > @"oOStaticOo.9467" said:

> > > > > They don't have to answer to the players. It's their game. They can dish out information when and if they want. You don't own a majority stock in the company so you can't make demands of them. Just be happy with any information they give us and deal with it.

> > > >

> > > > Where did I demand anything? I asked a question which is the god kitten purpose of online forums. I won’t “just be happy” because I’m a paying customer who’s not happy. Gfy.

> > >

> > > You are a "one time" paying customer. You bought the game and then you don't have to pay another penny after that. If you choose to do so then that is on you. If you are not happy with the product you purchase then you don't have to use the product and can go somewhere else and try something else instead. Sorry I struck a nerve there fella, just stating the facts.

> >

> > I've probably spent more on this franchise then you make in 6 months, fella.

>

> Nice assumption. However, still does not negate my saying that you pay one time for the game. After that whatever you spend is entirely on you. You do not have to buy HoT or PoF to play this game or WvW. Does it help? Sure. But you still don't have to buy them. Anything else you buy from the gem store is purely cosmetic. Nothing gives you an advantage over the next player from the gem store.

 

Honestly I have nothing more to contribute here.

 

I can post an Update though:

 

No official communication in regards to the current state of WvW... but I have “been warned” by a rando moderator.

[Kilo.2539]

> @"Kilo.2539" said:

> > @"oOStaticOo.9467" said:

> > > @"Kilo.2539" said:

> > > > @"oOStaticOo.9467" said:

> > > > > @"Kilo.2539" said:

> > > > > > @"oOStaticOo.9467" said:

> > > > > > They don't have to answer to the players. It's their game. They can dish out information when and if they want. You don't own a majority stock in the company so you can't make demands of them. Just be happy with any information they give us and deal with it.

> > > > >

> > > > > Where did I demand anything? I asked a question which is the god kitten purpose of online forums. I won’t “just be happy” because I’m a paying customer who’s not happy. Gfy.

> > > >

> > > > You are a "one time" paying customer. You bought the game and then you don't have to pay another penny after that. If you choose to do so then that is on you. If you are not happy with the product you purchase then you don't have to use the product and can go somewhere else and try something else instead. Sorry I struck a nerve there fella, just stating the facts.

> > >

> > > I've probably spent more on this franchise then you make in 6 months, fella.

> >

> > Nice assumption. However, still does not negate my saying that you pay one time for the game. After that whatever you spend is entirely on you. You do not have to buy HoT or PoF to play this game or WvW. Does it help? Sure. But you still don't have to buy them. Anything else you buy from the gem store is purely cosmetic. Nothing gives you an advantage over the next player from the gem store.

>

> Honestly I have nothing more to contribute here.

>

> I can post an Update though:

>

> No official communication in regards to the current state of WvW... but I have “been warned” by a rando moderator.

 

Apparently the title of the thread was inappropriate as well?

[LordEnki.9283]

They doubtfully have any short term plans. They've neglected the game mode for years. I agree about the classes too, yet support chrono gets nerfed again because they don't care how it affects WvW. The nerf was more about SPvP and PvE.

[XECOR.2814]

My honest opinion is that wvw is boring period. It is for people who have more time and less work on their hands. Currently wvw looks like an alpha or beta level of development content wise.

 

Big empty plain maps are sleep inducing and siege, tower and keep assets looks like they are from 90's. No npcs, no fun events or wildlife. Because of all these things combined wvw seems lifeless from new player's point of view.

I personally dislike the skyboxes in this game.

 

If they want to redeem this gamemode, they need to revamp art assets together with alliance system.

 

[Blackarps.1974]

At least throw us a bone and add some QoL updates as they are finished while we wait for the restructure. Its so sad scrolling down on patch days and the WvW section be empty.

[Substance E.4852]

> @"oOStaticOo.9467" said:

> > @"Substance E.4852" said:

> > > @"oOStaticOo.9467" said:

> > > They don't have to answer to the players. It's their game.

> >

> > Grade A business model there.

>

> Again, their game, not ours. We purchased the ability to play their game. They have the control to develop the game however they want. Honestly if the developers listened to the ideas of all the players, the game would be a crappy game. They are doing the best they can to try to satisfy the people playing the game all while trying to stay within the vision they had of the game. Try starting your own business or game and do nothing but listen to what everybody else tells you you should do with it and see how well it goes.

 

Nice false binary there big guy.

 

It's entirely possible to listen to constructive feedback while ignoring dumb ideas. If Anet can't muster the agency to sift through the noise then that's on them. They've only been at this whole "making games thing" for the last ~13 years.

 

But hey, by all means, ask Bioware how well "lol we can do what we want" has been working out for them.

 

 

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

Well, given how wildstar went, I'm just glad the game is still being actively supported.

[subversiontwo.7501]

> @"oOStaticOo.9467" said:

> They are doing the best they can to try to satisfy the people playing the game all while trying to stay within the vision they had of the game.

The #1 reason people are upset is that they **do not try their best** and they **have not stayed within the vision of the game**. If you climb to the most overview perspective you can I would hazard the guess that the game's, and by extension the company's, biggest problem is that it is still in a pandarian hangover. When the game released its two selling points were open world PvE and PvP (WvW). Many of the problems we see facing the game now seems due to resources being split, odd priorities being made and malbalances appearing through the complexity of multiple systems (skill splits etc.).

 

That change of focus came when Blizzard botched their expansion around the release of "our" game, and alot of players went looking for a new game and what followed was a major cash grab into the selling points of WoW (namely arena play and raids). The stream of ideas just flipped, GW2 went from the pioneer (that built systems that other games copied) to the follower (grabbing market shares by recreating others' tired old content because that is what ~~payers~~ players were used to). What we still see to this day is a knot of systems and general schizofrenia from that cash grab where the game doesn't really know what it wants to be besides Living world, which is odd given its clear vision and direction at release. The reason WvW gets less attention than other non-LW modes is the age-old reason that it needs less attention, it isn't very design-intensive. However, that is not to be confused with needing no attention and there are also breaking points if the WvW eco system is not given enough twirls or when it has been interrupted by outside force (eg., balance issues).

 

**So is the game mode dying?**

It's hard to tell since we do not sit on the facts, but given that there are now servers as high as tier 2 that have trouble fielding tags in prime time is undoubtedly reason for concern - or that there are so few commander-producing guilds left that when a single guild leaves a server that server takes a tumble into a freefall through the tiers. Those are quite ill-boding symptoms.

 

It has also dragged along the diseases of its infancy to this day (off-hours, pop-balance, scoring, rewards) but now it has compounded with growing transfer problems and more recently been plagued with rather large and rather lingering balance issues that we have not seen before, at least nowhere near the current scale. It may not be something new but it can easily be understood as something that is in motion but has picked up alot of momentum and speed in fairly recent time. That is also cause for concern, especially with alliances only aiming to provide a foundation to further build upon. If something takes time and momentum builds it may also be hard to stop it later.

 

 

**Are WvW players a small vocal minority who are never pleased?**

This becomes a chicken and egg analogy: Do Anet not care because the playerbase is reportedly small or is the playerbase reportedly small because Anet have not cared? What we know is that it has been given dwindling little attention over a full six years, to the point where community representatives from other game modes (or games) make jokes about it. What is true is that GW2 WvW remains the market leader of the RvR / open PvP niche, among all games.

 

No other game does it better in 2018, at least within the fantasy (MMO) genre. If anything, the WvW playerbase' fault is that it is not vocal enough (on public platforms) with no go-to Youtube personality etc. As someone else mentioned the playerbase has often kept to its closed server communities as that is the design of the mode. Teapot has dabbled a bit in throwing some bones to WvW in that regard but, however welcome, that is a sideshow both for him and for the community. There have been some good videos made lately (such as the Why-I-don't-play series) touching upon WvW but those are one-offs and not persistant enough to cut through the noise. One thing is for sure though, bad press seems far more effective than trying to communicate over in-community platforms, that is quite disheartening. Do we have to go out of our way, hurting the game, to facilitate ample response? A brave new world.

 

**Is the playerbase too small to pay attention to?**

Again, we do not sit on the statistics but I would be surprised if, for example, the active raiding community is larger yet there have been a number of wings since inception with quality and generally well-received resource-demanding content on at least a yearly basis if not higher. If you just look at maps there are more raid maps than WvW maps even thoug the WvW mode is much older. There are many other aspects in which raiding garners more attention as well for not appearant reason (rewards, balance, fixes etc.). The maps are a simple boiled-down comparison though with WvW having been given two new maps over the course of six-to-seven years, both bad. If you look beyond the game however, there is certainly enough demand for RvR / open PvP games to turn it productive and GW2 remains in the driver's seat so there is alot of potential going to waste and that is probably what annoys me the most. We all stand to gain quite alot from doing quite little, yet, more needs to be done than Raymond shouldering it all alone ;).

 

Not to whizz on the raiders' parade, but it serves a good example as to why claims that the neglect is due to the playerbase being too small are just wrong. I rather stick to lack of direction, self-imposed overbearing complexity, priorities and miscalculations in those priorities as my estimations. Especially considering the untapped potential outside of the game. How many millions of dollars did CU raise again? Yeah, no, that argument does not hold up.

 

**Do the WvW playerbase not buy gems?**

It really depends on what you compare it to or how you compare it. If it is a straight up comparison of slices of the playerbase, well sure, see the chicken-and-egg remarks being the smallest market leader still means there is large untapped potential and still well enough of a market share to be worth investing development resources into.

 

Others have already answered how players behave and I can only chime in with that. Comparing open world PvE and open world PvP through some average I'd say that WvW seem to come more equipped with expansions and gemstore items overall. The community self-regulates builds and specs towards a higher pressure of buying expansions and when a 50-man squad goes off a cliff the vast majority of players have glider skins and whatnot. I've seen nothing to suggest that the PvE community spend more on gems on average (at least not when you factor in gold-to-gem transfers that also drives the gem market). Everybody enjoys fashion wars in GW2 regardless of mode.

 

That is without mentioning that for the past six years people in WvW have also been paying gems for server transfers, something no other players have been subjected to or continue to be. Considering that it ruins the systems WvW has been built upon and remains built upon to this day (and seems to be kept being built upon going forward) it is especially tickling. Nothing tipped me into negativity as much as that in the Alliance update two. If WvW is valuable enough to milk like that then at least give the mode some comparable attention and build systems that fit into that rather than attempting to build around it and then just cave in.

 

**In some sort of closing**

If instead of comparing slices of the existing playerbase which more than anything is the result of choices made, you look at potential, global market appeal and attention - I would say that the WvW playerbase is much more sturdy than those of other games or modes, if anything. Where would the PvE aspects of the game have been if all attention it had been given in six years was two maps that the vast majority of the playerbase hated along with a couple unfinished systems while being stringed along and milked? That playerbase would have been gone ages ago. There are loud complaints about LS not appearing quick enough on monthly basis and good raid wings on yearly basis. If only WvW was even half that lucky or got even one thing, to such a magnitude, made (and received) so well.

 

Note to self:

I shouldn't be posting at 4am, I probably won't muster the energy to make this more coherent. It felt like a good idea at first, a brick later I am not so sure.