So sick of being a free bag of loot

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > It should not be that way.

> >

> > Whoa, hold on ... it SHOULDN'T be what way? That really good players are successful with classes regardless of what rank unskilled PVPer's give it? Um, no. That's EXACTLY the way it should be.

>

> Any class can be good if the player is good what’s ur point? Than why even balance anything if that was the case. Necro has same or lower damege,no real blocks or invulnerability and the least mobility in the game compared to oh I donno mesmer,nice avatar by the way lol, so just because some people can do well with necro because their really skilled at the game means it’s fine? IMHO I don’t! But I’ve been wrong many times before lol

 

What is YOUR point? You think bad PVPers should have an IWIN class? I mean, I'm asking you what your meaning is. You're not going to make a case for necro getting PVP stuff because bad players can't make it work.

 

My point is pretty simple; if a good player can take a class and play it, make it work, win some lose some ... that seems to me it works as intended. From your posts, you think that's wrong. I don't get that thinking ... so I'm asking you to explain yourself.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > It should not be that way.

> > >

> > > Whoa, hold on ... it SHOULDN'T be what way? That really good players are successful with classes regardless of what rank unskilled PVPer's give it? Um, no. That's EXACTLY the way it should be.

> >

> > Any class can be good if the player is good what’s ur point? Than why even balance anything if that was the case. Necro has same or lower damege,no real blocks or invulnerability and the least mobility in the game compared to oh I donno mesmer,nice avatar by the way lol, so just because some people can do well with necro because their really skilled at the game means it’s fine? IMHO I don’t! But I’ve been wrong many times before lol

>

> What is YOUR point? You think bad PVPers should have an IWIN class? I mean, I'm asking you what your meaning is. You're not going to make a case for necro getting PVP stuff because bad players can't make it work.

>

> My point is pretty simple; if a good player can take a class and play it, make it work, win some lose some ... that seems to me it works as intended. From your posts, you think that's wrong. I don't get that thinking ... so I'm asking you to explain yourself.

 

And I did, in the case of a mmo just because a profession is serviceable does not mean it’s is in a good position in regards to balance within its own mechanics or the game mechanics and in relation to where other professions sit as far as effectiveness. Just cuz someone can be good on necro doesn’t mean it’s on a good spot it means their a good player,if that player were to learn mirage or ranger they’d realize how they’ve been given far better effective tools, more blocks,invulnerability and mobility etc than say as of this topic necro.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

>moderate damage

 

lul

 

instagib backstab with 0 malice.

instagib vault

instagib dj

 

 

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > > It should not be that way.

> > > >

> > > > Whoa, hold on ... it SHOULDN'T be what way? That really good players are successful with classes regardless of what rank unskilled PVPer's give it? Um, no. That's EXACTLY the way it should be.

> > >

> > > Any class can be good if the player is good what’s ur point? Than why even balance anything if that was the case. Necro has same or lower damege,no real blocks or invulnerability and the least mobility in the game compared to oh I donno mesmer,nice avatar by the way lol, so just because some people can do well with necro because their really skilled at the game means it’s fine? IMHO I don’t! But I’ve been wrong many times before lol

> >

> > What is YOUR point? You think bad PVPers should have an IWIN class? I mean, I'm asking you what your meaning is. You're not going to make a case for necro getting PVP stuff because bad players can't make it work.

> >

> > My point is pretty simple; if a good player can take a class and play it, make it work, win some lose some ... that seems to me it works as intended. From your posts, you think that's wrong. I don't get that thinking ... so I'm asking you to explain yourself.

>

> And I did, in the case of a mmo just because a profession is serviceable does not mean it’s is in a good position in regards to balance within its own mechanics or the game mechanics and in relation to where other professions sit as far as effectiveness. Just cuz someone can be good on necro doesn’t mean it’s on a good spot it means their a good player,if that player were to learn mirage or ranger they’d realize how they’ve been given far better effective tools, more blocks,invulnerability and mobility etc than say as of this topic necro.

 

That's just you making a statement .. you have to explain why you think that. What other classes have do not influence what necro has, so that comparison doesn't make sense. This isn't some simple FPS; the interaction of a class with it's skills and the people that play it is way more complex than you obviously recognize; it's not about a class JUST having something; there is a person behind that keyboard using those skills. PVP isn't just about counting beans on classes like you are doing here.

 

And yes, I think that the balance point for Necro PVP is a good player being effective with the class, not scrubs and not elites. It makes sense to balance around average-to-good performance. It makes sense for a class to have planned deficiencies. It makes sense that class have different skills and tools than other classes.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Lol yeah cuz non deadeye thieves hit so hard these days cmon, u literally have to chip away at other classes and they their blocks and invulnerability skills than retreat by time uve taken but of health of them cuz two landed hits and ur dead, my gues is uve got ganked by deadeyes and are salty cuz no way anyone who knows thief or daredevil would say their damage is great compaired to their sustain

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > > > It should not be that way.

> > > > >

> > > > > Whoa, hold on ... it SHOULDN'T be what way? That really good players are successful with classes regardless of what rank unskilled PVPer's give it? Um, no. That's EXACTLY the way it should be.

> > > >

> > > > Any class can be good if the player is good what’s ur point? Than why even balance anything if that was the case. Necro has same or lower damege,no real blocks or invulnerability and the least mobility in the game compared to oh I donno mesmer,nice avatar by the way lol, so just because some people can do well with necro because their really skilled at the game means it’s fine? IMHO I don’t! But I’ve been wrong many times before lol

> > >

> > > What is YOUR point? You think bad PVPers should have an IWIN class? I mean, I'm asking you what your meaning is. You're not going to make a case for necro getting PVP stuff because bad players can't make it work.

> > >

> > > My point is pretty simple; if a good player can take a class and play it, make it work, win some lose some ... that seems to me it works as intended. From your posts, you think that's wrong. I don't get that thinking ... so I'm asking you to explain yourself.

> >

> > And I did, in the case of a mmo just because a profession is serviceable does not mean it’s is in a good position in regards to balance within its own mechanics or the game mechanics and in relation to where other professions sit as far as effectiveness. Just cuz someone can be good on necro doesn’t mean it’s on a good spot it means their a good player,if that player were to learn mirage or ranger they’d realize how they’ve been given far better effective tools, more blocks,invulnerability and mobility etc than say as of this topic necro.

>

> That's just you making a statement .. you have to explain why you think that. What other classes have do not influence what necro has, so that comparison doesn't make sense. This isn't some simple FPS; the interaction of a class with it's skills and the people that play it is way more complex than you obviously recognize; it's not about a class JUST having something; there is a person behind that keyboard using those skills. PVP isn't just about counting beans on classes like you are doing here.

>

> And yes, I think that the balance point for Necro PVP is a good player being effective with the class, not scrubs and not elites. It makes sense to balance around average-to-good performance. It makes sense for a class to have planned deficiencies. It makes sense that class have different skills and tools than other classes.

 

Ok you win a skilled player that can play a completely underpowered spec in comparison to other specs because of their skill translates into a prof being balanced, my bad lol and like ur avatar gues u need to be as equally skilled on mesmer to compete,ok lol

[Psycoprophet.8107]

By ur way of thinking there is no balance indifferences just skill indifferences in games,seems logical

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > > > > It should not be that way.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Whoa, hold on ... it SHOULDN'T be what way? That really good players are successful with classes regardless of what rank unskilled PVPer's give it? Um, no. That's EXACTLY the way it should be.

> > > > >

> > > > > Any class can be good if the player is good what’s ur point? Than why even balance anything if that was the case. Necro has same or lower damege,no real blocks or invulnerability and the least mobility in the game compared to oh I donno mesmer,nice avatar by the way lol, so just because some people can do well with necro because their really skilled at the game means it’s fine? IMHO I don’t! But I’ve been wrong many times before lol

> > > >

> > > > What is YOUR point? You think bad PVPers should have an IWIN class? I mean, I'm asking you what your meaning is. You're not going to make a case for necro getting PVP stuff because bad players can't make it work.

> > > >

> > > > My point is pretty simple; if a good player can take a class and play it, make it work, win some lose some ... that seems to me it works as intended. From your posts, you think that's wrong. I don't get that thinking ... so I'm asking you to explain yourself.

> > >

> > > And I did, in the case of a mmo just because a profession is serviceable does not mean it’s is in a good position in regards to balance within its own mechanics or the game mechanics and in relation to where other professions sit as far as effectiveness. Just cuz someone can be good on necro doesn’t mean it’s on a good spot it means their a good player,if that player were to learn mirage or ranger they’d realize how they’ve been given far better effective tools, more blocks,invulnerability and mobility etc than say as of this topic necro.

> >

> > That's just you making a statement .. you have to explain why you think that. What other classes have do not influence what necro has, so that comparison doesn't make sense. This isn't some simple FPS; the interaction of a class with it's skills and the people that play it is way more complex than you obviously recognize; it's not about a class JUST having something; there is a person behind that keyboard using those skills. PVP isn't just about counting beans on classes like you are doing here.

> >

> > And yes, I think that the balance point for Necro PVP is a good player being effective with the class, not scrubs and not elites. It makes sense to balance around average-to-good performance. It makes sense for a class to have planned deficiencies. It makes sense that class have different skills and tools than other classes.

>

> Ok you win a skilled player that can play a completely underpowered spec in comparison to other specs because of their skill translates into a prof being balanced, my bad lol and like ur avatar gues u need to be as equally skilled on mesmer to compete,ok lol

 

No, I win because it makes sense to balance around skilled players that know how to play their class; if Anet balanced around scrubs or elites, they would miss a significant portion of the population and risk skewing towards too much or not enough. It has nothing to do with my avatar. It has nothing to do with what some other class does. Balancing isn't about who has what skills. It just isn't that simple.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

It’s has a lot to do with what other classes have actually, that’s is a huge factor in balancing in a game where players compete against each other using different classes and tools. But I gues all the balance posts and balance teams are moot and can retire all classes in gw are balanced due to the fact a high skilled player can compete and be effective with all classes lol

[Psycoprophet.8107]

No point in any further balancing due to the fact there isn’t one profession that a skilled player can’t be effective with if their skilled enough and against lesser skilled players,u kno even tho there are huge advantages to using certain classes because their over performing in arenet words even lol anyway this is going in circles for little reason

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> It’s has a lot to do with what other classes have actually, that’s is a huge factor in balancing in a game where players compete against each other using different classes and tools. But I gues all the balance posts and balance teams are moot and can retire all classes in gw are balanced due to the fact a high skilled player can compete and be effective with all classes lol

 

We would like to THINK this because it's fair, but the reality is that it's near impossible to objectively balance equality into the complexity of choices available. The best Anet can do is offer some level of consistent play. I believe they get close to that with constancy of theme.

 

If there was money involved with winning competitions in this game ... you might have a point. Anet abandoned that a long time ago ... along with any idea they have to commit to balancing classes with it.

[KrHome.1920]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> Balancing isn't about who has what skills. It just isn't that simple.

Everything else than balancing for high skill level players will kill the game, because it's non transparent and non rewarding.

 

Possible scenarios:

- When you suck at a lower level with your class which is balanced for optimal high level performance you can still simply improve your skills. And that's exactly what competitve videogames are about and that's why GW2 failed at ESports, because it is not balanced this way.

- When your class is balanced for lower tiers and fails at high level gameplay (current necro state), what can you do? Lose against worse players, lose rank and fight low tier players that are obviously worse than you or... play another class.

 

You are forced to play another class in both scenarios, but:

 

- In scenario 1 you are forced to play another class until you got better for the class you would like to play. It's always possible to improve, so there is always an option. Bad players in scenario 1 are not left alone, they are matched against equally bad players.

- In scenario 2 you are forced to play another class to be able to be competitive at all. Your skill level does not matter. Your class matters. You are matched against players that are not nessessarily your skill level. Frustration and a dying community is the result.

 

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> Lol yeah cuz non deadeye thieves hit so hard these days cmon, u literally have to chip away at other classes and they their blocks and invulnerability skills than retreat by time uve taken but of health of them cuz two landed hits and ur dead, my gues is uve got ganked by deadeyes and are salty cuz no way anyone who knows thief or daredevil would say their damage is great compaired to their sustain

 

Non de thieves can oneshot just as easy.

But since you know so much about thieves I'm sure you know this.

 

Who cares if their sustain damage is not that good (still miles ahead of some other professions) if you can press 2 skills and instagib from stealth?

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > Lol yeah cuz non deadeye thieves hit so hard these days cmon, u literally have to chip away at other classes and they their blocks and invulnerability skills than retreat by time uve taken but of health of them cuz two landed hits and ur dead, my gues is uve got ganked by deadeyes and are salty cuz no way anyone who knows thief or daredevil would say their damage is great compaired to their sustain

>

> Non de thieves can oneshot just as easy.

> But since you know so much about thieves I'm sure you know this.

>

> Who cares if their sustain damage is not that good (still miles ahead of some other professions) if you can press 2 skills and instagib from stealth?

 

Im am not a professional by any stretch but I’ve spent a lot of hrs on thief but I’ve never been able to one shot on a core or daredevil and I don’t use stealth invisibility skills which is maybe why my damage is lower. With that said if what u say is true than why do on numerous occasions well known top thief players( not DE) like sindrener etc avoid most 1v1 due to knowing the class limitations and use it’s strenths to decap and +1 enemies that are distracted and with damage already taken. If the have this magical damage u speak of why are the not great dueler like thier discription and universally known to be at a disadvantage in a 1v1 and have to use cheap mechanics like fight resets and +1. Or are u such a high skill level with thief that without using cheap back stab mechanics thru invisibility to magically one shot and produce higher damage than rest of us? Maybe less players would resort to using such a cheesy mechanic as perma stealth DE if the thief’s other specs weren’t nurfed so hard over the years due to salty whiners who got beat by skilled thieves and couldn’t handle it and maybe thieves wouldn’t get their other specs gutted due to the addition of the cheese DE spec and it’s balancing attempts by arenet

[Obtena.7952]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > Balancing isn't about who has what skills. It just isn't that simple.

> Everything else than balancing for high skill level players will kill the game, because it's non transparent and non rewarding.

>

> Possible scenarios:

> - When you suck at a lower level with your class which is balanced for optimal high level performance you can still simply improve your skills. And that's exactly what competitve videogames are about and that's why GW2 failed at ESports, because it is not balanced this way.

> - When your class is balanced for lower tiers and fails at high level gameplay (current necro state), what can you do? Lose against worse players, lose rank and fight low tier players that are obviously worse than you or... play another class.

>

> You are forced to play another class in both scenarios, but:

>

> - In scenario 1 you are forced to play another class until you got better for the class you would like to play. It's always possible to improve, so there is always an option. Bad players in scenario 1 are not left alone, they are matched against equally bad players.

> - In scenario 2 you are forced to play another class to be able to be competitive at all. Your skill level does not matter. Your class matters. You are matched against players that are not nessessarily your skill level. Frustration and a dying community is the result.

>

 

Hey, the fact is that Anet can't satisfy everyone with balance; if they want to gain the greatest appeal to their players, it makes sense to balance in the range where most players are capable. To be honest, now I think about it more, the balance point is not really relevant. Regardless of whatever point Anet chooses, the fact is that it doesn't make sense to dissect a class by its skills, make comparisons to others and claim it's not balanced. Skills interact with each other and even in between classes; it's not as simple as changing a number to balance.

 

OP doesn't want to be a free loot bag ... he's got options but playing necro clearly isn't one of them for him.

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > Lol yeah cuz non deadeye thieves hit so hard these days cmon, u literally have to chip away at other classes and they their blocks and invulnerability skills than retreat by time uve taken but of health of them cuz two landed hits and ur dead, my gues is uve got ganked by deadeyes and are salty cuz no way anyone who knows thief or daredevil would say their damage is great compaired to their sustain

> >

> > Non de thieves can oneshot just as easy.

> > But since you know so much about thieves I'm sure you know this.

> >

> > Who cares if their sustain damage is not that good (still miles ahead of some other professions) if you can press 2 skills and instagib from stealth?

>

> Im am not a professional by any stretch but I’ve spent a lot of hrs on thief but I’ve never been able to one shot on a core or daredevil and I don’t use stealth invisibility skills which is maybe why my damage is lower. With that said if what u say is true than why do on numerous occasions well known top thief players( not DE) like sindrener etc avoid most 1v1 due to knowing the class limitations and use it’s strenths to decap and +1 enemies that are distracted and with damage already taken. If the have this magical damage u speak of why are the not great dueler like thier discription and universally known to be at a disadvantage in a 1v1 and have to use cheap mechanics like fight resets and +1. Or are u such a high skill level with thief that without using cheap back stab mechanics thru invisibility to magically one shot and produce higher damage than rest of us? Maybe less players would resort to using such a cheesy mechanic as perma stealth DE if the thief’s other specs weren’t nurfed so hard over the years due to salty whiners who got beat by skilled thieves and couldn’t handle it and maybe thieves wouldn’t get their other specs gutted due to the addition of the cheese DE spec and it’s balancing attempts by arenet

 

In fact core thieve and dardevil can "one shot" foes, it's not that complicated. The issue is that it involve too many ressources to make the build viable in competitive environment. Thought it's fun to use in WvW against unsuspecting foes.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > Lol yeah cuz non deadeye thieves hit so hard these days cmon, u literally have to chip away at other classes and they their blocks and invulnerability skills than retreat by time uve taken but of health of them cuz two landed hits and ur dead, my gues is uve got ganked by deadeyes and are salty cuz no way anyone who knows thief or daredevil would say their damage is great compaired to their sustain

> > >

> > > Non de thieves can oneshot just as easy.

> > > But since you know so much about thieves I'm sure you know this.

> > >

> > > Who cares if their sustain damage is not that good (still miles ahead of some other professions) if you can press 2 skills and instagib from stealth?

> >

> > Im am not a professional by any stretch but I’ve spent a lot of hrs on thief but I’ve never been able to one shot on a core or daredevil and I don’t use stealth invisibility skills which is maybe why my damage is lower. With that said if what u say is true than why do on numerous occasions well known top thief players( not DE) like sindrener etc avoid most 1v1 due to knowing the class limitations and use it’s strenths to decap and +1 enemies that are distracted and with damage already taken. If the have this magical damage u speak of why are the not great dueler like thier discription and universally known to be at a disadvantage in a 1v1 and have to use cheap mechanics like fight resets and +1. Or are u such a high skill level with thief that without using cheap back stab mechanics thru invisibility to magically one shot and produce higher damage than rest of us? Maybe less players would resort to using such a cheesy mechanic as perma stealth DE if the thief’s other specs weren’t nurfed so hard over the years due to salty whiners who got beat by skilled thieves and couldn’t handle it and maybe thieves wouldn’t get their other specs gutted due to the addition of the cheese DE spec and it’s balancing attempts by arenet

>

> In fact core thieve and dardevil can "one shot" foes, it's not that complicated. The issue is that it involve too many ressources to make the build viable in competitive environment. Thought it's fun to use in WvW against unsuspecting foes.

 

Pls tell me how to one shot anyone with core or DD without invisibility, and without enemy being almost dead from another engagement,I’m not saying u cant I genuinely want to kno lol I run zerk and scholar and don’t come close

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > Lol yeah cuz non deadeye thieves hit so hard these days cmon, u literally have to chip away at other classes and they their blocks and invulnerability skills than retreat by time uve taken but of health of them cuz two landed hits and ur dead, my gues is uve got ganked by deadeyes and are salty cuz no way anyone who knows thief or daredevil would say their damage is great compaired to their sustain

> >

> > Non de thieves can oneshot just as easy.

> > But since you know so much about thieves I'm sure you know this.

> >

> > Who cares if their sustain damage is not that good (still miles ahead of some other professions) if you can press 2 skills and instagib from stealth?

>

> Im am not a professional by any stretch but I’ve spent a lot of hrs on thief but I’ve never been able to one shot on a core or daredevil and I don’t use stealth invisibility skills which is maybe why my damage is lower. With that said if what u say is true than why do on numerous occasions well known top thief players( not DE) like sindrener etc avoid most 1v1 due to knowing the class limitations and use it’s strenths to decap and +1 enemies that are distracted and with damage already taken. If the have this magical damage u speak of why are the not great dueler like thier discription and universally known to be at a disadvantage in a 1v1 and have to use cheap mechanics like fight resets and +1. Or are u such a high skill level with thief that without using cheap back stab mechanics thru invisibility to magically one shot and produce higher damage than rest of us? Maybe less players would resort to using such a cheesy mechanic as perma stealth DE if the thief’s other specs weren’t nurfed so hard over the years due to salty whiners who got beat by skilled thieves and couldn’t handle it and maybe thieves wouldn’t get their other specs gutted due to the addition of the cheese DE spec and it’s balancing attempts by arenet

 

Think it was obvious I was referring to wvw?!

On core DA/CS/Trick, same thing as ever, assassin's signet + backstab.

 

[Psycoprophet.8107]

U were man I was referring to wvw without using invisibility, I have no issues with people that do I just feel cheap using invisibility lol

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> U were man I was referring to wvw without using invisibility, I have no issues with people that do I just feel cheap using invisibility lol

 

You said thieves had moderate damage hence why I said they can instagib with vault/dj/backstab

Guess you play S/D, S/D damage is not as high but still good, has lots of survival to compensate.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

I usually run trick,Acro and DD with staff and bow in wvw,Assassin sig and agility sig for bit extra power and precision,I gues I could do more dameage with CS or DA just with so many condition and movement impairment being thrown around as well as having to use evades for Defense constantly Acro seems to help with sustain but damage is less

[Psycoprophet.8107]

I like S/D but people I fight seem to have 6 sec of invulnerability and multiple blocks and the few hits u get in take minor chunks outa their hp and if one of theirs hits ur now at half or more hp, don’t get me wrong I get kills often but it’s from vault and weakening charge spam on players that arnt good with their defenses and or are engaged already and I port in and burst their already low health lol

[Psycoprophet.8107]

anyone playing holo,mirage,soulbeast,spellbraker etc that kno their class blocks or is invulnerable through ur burst or u use up ur resources to bait them out but don’t have enough left to take them on, least in my experience. Very well could be that I’m just a bad thief player that I can’t take people down in 1v1 unless they aren’t good with their class yet or their unsuspecting and hurting already lol

[Dace.8173]

> @"Xxnecroxx.4039" said:

> > @"Dace.8173" said:

> > > @"Xxnecroxx.4039" said:

> > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > im speaking of pvp,wvw etc. Pve its decent cuz well your fighting npc’s lol

> > >

> > > not if you are playing end game content, you will be asked to leave T4 challenges/100's/nightmares, never allowed into raids unless you made the raid but then it will take longer to fill because people know necro is garbo in PVE, pretty much any endgame content is locked off from necros and you don't even feel powerful when you are roaming because of the 50 Epi nerfs and that pretty much every skill now requires boon corrupt to actually do damage but in PVE hardly if any PVE enemies have boons and even if they do they do not re-apply them to be reliable damag

> >

> > I wouldn't say never. It's already been shown in previous threads that Necromancers get taken along in end game PvE content.

> >

> > > @"Xxnecroxx.4039" said:

> > > its so stupid that a class like necro is the weakest class in PVE when the game is 90% PVE, just have a harsher split between PVE necro and PVP/WVW necro and make necro powerful LIKE HOT release days, those were the golden times for necro and now after 1k nerfs necro is literally nearly unplayable in end game content which is the really only content worth doing and anything else you feel like you are hitting everything WITH A WET FEN NOODLE, when 90% of the game is PVE you got to make every class feel powerful in it no matter the balance. that is the reason I have not played GW2 for over a year I have invested to much into my necro to feel like kitten when I play him and not enjoy it

> >

> > Because skill split doesn't actually address most of the core issues. If skill split was an actual solution it would be working now. The fact that it isn't, highlights how skill splits won't net you the desired results. Also, no you do not make every class feel powerful no matter the balance. That creates more issues than it solves. At some point, player outcry over the ridiculousness created by that situation would find some folks hit with some fairly harsh nerfs.

> >

> > I'd also like to see where you get that 90% of the game number from. People make claims like that and rarely back it with a credible source that indicates the number should be taken seriously.

> >

>

> try joining pugs with necro most of the time you will be turned down, asked to swap, or just kicked outright, there is VERY FEW EXCEPTIONS, and skill split while it may not be the only thing needed for necro it would be very nice and help, and 90% of the game is PVE ok what 10 PVP maps, all small btw, with 4-5 WvW maps that are actually pretty decent while in PVE you got all of fractals, dungeons, 20+ maps, raids, etc, etc, etc as well as MANY MANY MANY more achievments through PVE then PVP and WvW COMBINED, when a expansion comes along whats most of it? o right PVE not PVP maps or WvW maps. and I said 90% because anyone with half a brain could easily see how much more substantial content in PVE is then there is in PvP/WvW but I guess I was wrong

 

Then don't PUG. Folks act like the only way to do this content is to PUG. That simply is not true. The guy who runs my guild plays Necromancer almost exclusively in pretty much all the content. He doesn't care what other people think of Necromancer he does his thing anyway. If he can't find a PUG he asks in guild if anyone wants to go. Even then, it has been shown in previous threads that Necromancers can PUG.

 

Also, skill split won't solve anything. Moreso since the problems are not 100% around the skills themselves but features of the profession. Also, unless you quote an actual source for that 90% I'm just going to disregard it and assume you made the number up to bolster a weak argument. None of what you've said to justify the number are qualities that would make PvE 90% of the game since people play WvW/PvP for more than just the number of maps. Ad hom attacks do not make your argument credible. Either quote a source for that number or I'm just going to say you made it up based on assumptions as opposed to provable facts.

 

As for the half of a brain, I can Raid with my Reaper anytime I want sooooooo.

 

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"Jeknar.6184" said:

> > Just play Scourge... People always complain about necromancer, but everytime I'm in WvW or PvP there are scourges everywhere, and they are not exactly the easiest class to kill unless they are alone (but then again, necro never been a great duelist).

> >

> > In PvE tho, RIP Necro...

>

> I get ur point for sure just don’t wanna be a aoe spam bot lol not really a playstyle I enjoy and really only way to be effective with scourge,tho I do see the appeal I’d have for others

 

You do realize that you've undermined your point. Someone offered you a solution and you ignored it even though that solution happens to work. That indicates that at least part of the problem is related to yourself and not just ANet. A lot of your complaints seemed to be around what Necromancer isn't as opposed to whether or not it can actually perform.

 

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"Xxnecroxx.4039" said:

> > its so stupid that a class like necro is the weakest class in PVE when the game is 90% PVE, just have a harsher split between PVE necro and PVP/WVW necro and make necro powerful LIKE HOT release days, those were the golden times for necro and now after 1k nerfs necro is literally nearly unplayable in end game content which is the really only content worth doing and anything else you feel like you are hitting everything WITH A WET FEN NOODLE, when 90% of the game is PVE you got to make every class feel powerful in it no matter the balance. that is the reason I have not played GW2 for over a year I have invested to much into my necro to feel like kitten when I play him and not enjoy it

>

> I agree, I made this thread as a vent and a lot of great points were/have been made so far. I think it’s interesting how many players who I suspect play other professions mainly will post things to the effect that necro is fine as is etc,and will have a ranger,mesmer or guard avatar

 

A person's avatar has no bearing on anything. That's just a silly thing to consider. If you can't make an argument without taking shots at a person's avatar then your argument has no substance.

 

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> I have and it’s ok to be blunt, I get ur point. I love the dark them,style and flavor of the skills,arenet did a great job as far as creativity and visually of the profession and that makes me want to play it and don’t get me wrong I do enjoy it and that’s why I bothered making this thread. I’m not saying necro sucks and is not worth playing it’s just frustrating to see the balance team give blocks,invulnerability,high damage and mobility out like candy and leave out classes like necro,thief and ele. Those are real advantages in a combat mmo and classes should be on a more even playing field. I kno perfect balance isn’t reachable but can be a lot closer than what it is now. I play other professions often as well I like boonbeast in wvw often and it’s fun for me in burst but it’s skills etc become boring to me very fast, not saying they are in general and I’d rather have fun than be effective. I’d be great to be both lol but my point is I have tried all classes and their elites save for holo and reaper and core interest me the most skill and visual wise compared to others, exept daredevil lol who doesn’t like martial arts staff concept? But it turned out to be a spam fest and thief shares same issues exept mobility as necro,no good sustain options and damage to compansate for how squishy it is compared to the powercreep that’s other professions have evolved into.

 

Balance is closer than you think. Necromancer can be strong in PvP/WvW if you play to its strengths. That doesn't mean its perfect but very few professions allow for 100% playability the way you want to. If I want to go into PvP and do well I take Holo. If I play Scrapper then I am playing a non-meta Elite and that's on me. At least Necromancer has two work Elites for competitive modes. There are some professions that have only one. Even some that only have one build.

 

Your analysis is also off. Elementalist has great defense. It lacks power. I don't know why you keep tossing Thief into the mix since Deadeye and Daredevil are very strong contenders. They are highly mobile. If they had more blocks they would be far too strong as instead of having straight up blocks and invulnerability they have stealth and the ability to simply disappear. They trade in sustainability for higher mobility and alternate defense tactics. You seem to be lumping in professions without giving proper care to whether they support or detract from your argument or putting their deficiencies into proper context. I would also say they don't give those things out like candy. If they did some of those professions you left off your list would be doing better than they currently are.

 

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> Lol yeah cuz non deadeye thieves hit so hard these days cmon, u literally have to chip away at other classes and they their blocks and invulnerability skills than retreat by time uve taken but of health of them cuz two landed hits and ur dead, my gues is uve got ganked by deadeyes and are salty cuz no way anyone who knows thief or daredevil would say their damage is great compaired to their sustain

 

Um, yeah. That's the playstyle. Thief isn't meant to just getting into the mix of things and do awesome. It's a roamer and sometimes +1. You seem to be arguing that all the professions play the same as you have repeatedly ignored how the profession actually works and why it does well in favor of making the false claim that something is wrong because they lack a list of traits you feel they should have. Well played Thieves/Daredevils/Deadeye get the job done. They may not do it in the fashion you want it to but that is due to balance reasons. You seem to be using balance as a catch all term for the professions all having the same basic abilities and that's not what balance is.

 

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > Lol yeah cuz non deadeye thieves hit so hard these days cmon, u literally have to chip away at other classes and they their blocks and invulnerability skills than retreat by time uve taken but of health of them cuz two landed hits and ur dead, my gues is uve got ganked by deadeyes and are salty cuz no way anyone who knows thief or daredevil would say their damage is great compaired to their sustain

> >

> > Non de thieves can oneshot just as easy.

> > But since you know so much about thieves I'm sure you know this.

> >

> > Who cares if their sustain damage is not that good (still miles ahead of some other professions) if you can press 2 skills and instagib from stealth?

>

> Im am not a professional by any stretch but I’ve spent a lot of hrs on thief but I’ve never been able to one shot on a core or daredevil and I don’t use stealth invisibility skills which is maybe why my damage is lower. With that said if what u say is true than why do on numerous occasions well known top thief players( not DE) like sindrener etc avoid most 1v1 due to knowing the class limitations and use it’s strenths to decap and +1 enemies that are distracted and with damage already taken. If the have this magical damage u speak of why are the not great dueler like thier discription and universally known to be at a disadvantage in a 1v1 and have to use cheap mechanics like fight resets and +1. Or are u such a high skill level with thief that without using cheap back stab mechanics thru invisibility to magically one shot and produce higher damage than rest of us? Maybe less players would resort to using such a cheesy mechanic as perma stealth DE if the thief’s other specs weren’t nurfed so hard over the years due to salty whiners who got beat by skilled thieves and couldn’t handle it and maybe thieves wouldn’t get their other specs gutted due to the addition of the cheese DE spec and it’s balancing attempts by arenet

 

Ok, now I'm convinced, you don't get what balance is. Just because you don't use invisibility doesn't mean there is something wrong with Thief. That means there is something wrong with you. If you aren't doing well with the profession then it's because you are not using all the tools given to you to do well with it. Instead of learning how to play Thief you instead claim its not balanced because it lacks the skills you need to survive to play the way you want to play. That is not balance, that is player preference. Balance is not everything having high damage and high sustain. Balance is not everyone being a great dueler. All of your balance arguments amount to "why doesn't everything play the same way?"

 

You know why top Thieves stick to decape and +1? Because that's what Thief is built around. That's the game play. Thief was given a lot of tools to be able to bounce around the map. They leave the dueling to other people. You seem to not get PvP in this game. This isn't a game where everyone is good at everything. It's a team game in which different professions are given different strengths in order to make the team succeed.

 

You clearly do not understand Thief game play and all your balance arguments revolve around you not being able to do something as opposed to whether or not what you are using was actually meant to do it in the first place. If you are losing with Thief that's because you are clearly not good with it. Everything you've said in this post indicates as much.

 

Necromancer does have balance issues. You, sadly, are no where near any of them.

 

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Dace.8173" said:

> > @"Xxnecroxx.4039" said:

> > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > im speaking of pvp,wvw etc. Pve its decent cuz well your fighting npc’s lol

> >

> > not if you are playing end game content, you will be asked to leave T4 challenges/100's/nightmares, never allowed into raids unless you made the raid but then it will take longer to fill because people know necro is garbo in PVE, pretty much any endgame content is locked off from necros and you don't even feel powerful when you are roaming because of the 50 Epi nerfs and that pretty much every skill now requires boon corrupt to actually do damage but in PVE hardly if any PVE enemies have boons and even if they do they do not re-apply them to be reliable damag

>

> I wouldn't say never. It's already been shown in previous threads that Necromancers get taken along in end game PvE content.

>

> > @"Xxnecroxx.4039" said:

> > its so stupid that a class like necro is the weakest class in PVE when the game is 90% PVE, just have a harsher split between PVE necro and PVP/WVW necro and make necro powerful LIKE HOT release days, those were the golden times for necro and now after 1k nerfs necro is literally nearly unplayable in end game content which is the really only content worth doing and anything else you feel like you are hitting everything WITH A WET FEN NOODLE, when 90% of the game is PVE you got to make every class feel powerful in it no matter the balance. that is the reason I have not played GW2 for over a year I have invested to much into my necro to feel like kitten when I play him and not enjoy it

>

> Because skill split doesn't actually address most of the core issues. If skill split was an actual solution it would be working now. The fact that it isn't, highlights how skill splits won't net you the desired results. Also, no you do not make every class feel powerful no matter the balance. That creates more issues than it solves. At some point, player outcry over the ridiculousness created by that situation would find some folks hit with some fairly harsh nerfs.

 

I don't agree here. They have the possibility to use skillsplit, yet they are doing it very poorly. That's why skillsplit doesn't work.

 

For example they could have chosen to nerf proc-traits in pvp-modes only, by removing the ability to crit. Yet they chose to nerf them in pve as well.

skillsplit?- No, even though these were clearly only PvP related nerds, which also lowered pve DPS.

>

> I'd also like to see where you get that 90% of the game number from. People make claims like that and rarely back it with a credible source that indicates the number should be taken seriously.

>