Anchoku.8142 Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > I would actually rather see more weapon skills that apply marks. Considering **Marks** are categorized as their own unique type of skill much like guardian symbols and Mesmer clones or phantoms . > > "Clone" Skills are scattered throughout all weapons on mesmer along with "Phantom skills" > "Symbols" are scattered throughout all weapons options of guardian. > > Necromancer "Marks" on the other hand are only on staff and not on any other weapons or utilities. Its almost like Marks were the first type of unique skills to be made in the game and the developers got smarter about spreading similar things out across other weapons on other classes rather than leaving 1 weapon with all of them. > > How no one has noticed and not brought this up is beyond me. Marks have long been Necromancer's version of traps. There is a chance the next elite may add traps as utilities (several other professions have traps there) so another weapon setting traps like staff is possible, though Arenanet may think staff is enough for that even if the specialization adds them on 6-0 slots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodama.6453 Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 > @"Dace.8173" said: > > @"Kodama.6453" said: > > > @"Dace.8173" said: > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > @"Dace.8173" said: > > > > > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > > > > Why is everyone so fixated on super bad ai-minions to play with? > > > > > > > > > > > > They hold you infight when you don't want them to > > > > > > They tank enemies you don't want them to tank > > > > > > They are stupid as f... > > > > > > Gameplay is hell a lot annoying with minions. > > > > > > > > > > > > I really hope they completely remove necro minions and give him actually good utilities instead. > > > > > > Not going to happen anyways > > > > > > > > > > People like minions and there are a lot of folks who want to get the old GW 1 minion master going again. > > > > > > > > It doesn't change the fact that the game isn't really "minion-friendly" and that "minion builds" are seen as "skill-less builds useless in competitive modes". ANet will avoid to raise minions to a level that can be threatening to anyone. And if it's not threatening in any way, "the folks that want the old gw1 minion master" will eternaly be unsatisfied. > > > > > > > > ANet's balance of the necromancer's minions reached a state where minions are in the spot they want them to be (no matter how awful this spot is). Adding weapon skills that summon minions in the equation is bound to break this "balance state" and lead to nerfs to the current traits and skills related to minions. > > > > > > Well, I'm not saying that it's a good idea. Actually not passing judgment on the idea in general. I'm of the opinion that the old builds from GW1 should just be left in the past anyway. I feel trying to get that feel back, those old professions and builds, does more harm to the game than good. I do wish the AIs were better as I'd really love to see a Golemancer Elite for Engineer. > > > > The last thing engineer needs is another elite spec focused on an AI minion type, tbh. > > We already have turrets and gyros, that's enough. > > If the AIs were good I don't think it would be bad. The concept of Engineer pretty much invites lots of AI toys as you build a bunch of stuff to help you out, whether they be turrets, gyros, or golems. If AIs were good, and thus turrets and gyros weren't so bad, then adding another AI based spec wouldn't be that bad. I'm actually amazed that Engineer wasn't already given a golem to summon in Core. It should have been an elite skill like Flesh Golem for Necromancer. Oh well. > > Overall though, the AI should be updated and fixed not just so I can have my Golemancer Elite. It would help out Rangers a lot (though I'm not sure they need it) and it would be a big boon for Necromancers. Minions, gyros, turrets, and pets should all be as useful as Mesmer clones are. It would fix a lot of issues. Question: What kind of need could this type of minion fulfill that we don't already have? Turrets are supposed to be our offensive minions. Gyros are supposed to be our defensive, supportive minions. Not only would I be extremely annoyed to have another bunch of AI pets, but I simply see no reason to add anymore anyway. What kind of niche do you want them to fulfill? And keep in mind: it should be something that makes actual sense with the golem archetype. I really hope that we won't see a golemancer in the near future, I would like Anet to focus on the chemical aspects of the engineer with the next elite spec. Scrapper had a mechanical theme. Holosmith had a hightech cyber theme. Golems would be something in between those two... which would be a waste. Let us explore other aspects of engineering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 this sounds cool man. lets be real tho, say what you wanna say. _auto attacks that summon minions_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 > @"Kodama.6453" said: > > @"Dace.8173" said: > > > @"Kodama.6453" said: > > > > @"Dace.8173" said: > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > @"Dace.8173" said: > > > > > > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > > > > > Why is everyone so fixated on super bad ai-minions to play with? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They hold you infight when you don't want them to > > > > > > > They tank enemies you don't want them to tank > > > > > > > They are stupid as f... > > > > > > > Gameplay is hell a lot annoying with minions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I really hope they completely remove necro minions and give him actually good utilities instead. > > > > > > > Not going to happen anyways > > > > > > > > > > > > People like minions and there are a lot of folks who want to get the old GW 1 minion master going again. > > > > > > > > > > It doesn't change the fact that the game isn't really "minion-friendly" and that "minion builds" are seen as "skill-less builds useless in competitive modes". ANet will avoid to raise minions to a level that can be threatening to anyone. And if it's not threatening in any way, "the folks that want the old gw1 minion master" will eternaly be unsatisfied. > > > > > > > > > > ANet's balance of the necromancer's minions reached a state where minions are in the spot they want them to be (no matter how awful this spot is). Adding weapon skills that summon minions in the equation is bound to break this "balance state" and lead to nerfs to the current traits and skills related to minions. > > > > > > > > Well, I'm not saying that it's a good idea. Actually not passing judgment on the idea in general. I'm of the opinion that the old builds from GW1 should just be left in the past anyway. I feel trying to get that feel back, those old professions and builds, does more harm to the game than good. I do wish the AIs were better as I'd really love to see a Golemancer Elite for Engineer. > > > > > > The last thing engineer needs is another elite spec focused on an AI minion type, tbh. > > > We already have turrets and gyros, that's enough. > > > > If the AIs were good I don't think it would be bad. The concept of Engineer pretty much invites lots of AI toys as you build a bunch of stuff to help you out, whether they be turrets, gyros, or golems. If AIs were good, and thus turrets and gyros weren't so bad, then adding another AI based spec wouldn't be that bad. I'm actually amazed that Engineer wasn't already given a golem to summon in Core. It should have been an elite skill like Flesh Golem for Necromancer. Oh well. > > > > Overall though, the AI should be updated and fixed not just so I can have my Golemancer Elite. It would help out Rangers a lot (though I'm not sure they need it) and it would be a big boon for Necromancers. Minions, gyros, turrets, and pets should all be as useful as Mesmer clones are. It would fix a lot of issues. > > Question: What kind of need could this type of minion fulfill that we don't already have? > Turrets are supposed to be our offensive minions. Gyros are supposed to be our defensive, supportive minions. > > Not only would I be extremely annoyed to have another bunch of AI pets, but I simply see no reason to add anymore anyway. What kind of niche do you want them to fulfill? And keep in mind: it should be something that makes actual sense with the golem archetype. I really hope that we won't see a golemancer in the near future, I would like Anet to focus on the chemical aspects of the engineer with the next elite spec. > > Scrapper had a mechanical theme. Holosmith had a hightech cyber theme. Golems would be something in between those two... which would be a waste. Let us explore other aspects of engineering. Not sure if you are still talking about Necros here but the 'need' that the idea being presented fulfills is simply adding another flavour to the Necro class as an espec. To be honest, there is no 'need' for a weapon that does this, just like there isn't a 'need' for lots of things that give any class the flavours we have ... yet we still have them. That means that 'need' isn't required to see these new ideas introduced to the game. Personally, my current problem with minions is that they are skills and they kind of stand alone, not really linked to any particular theme or idea ... other than the idea that a Necro can command minions. Frankly, I would like to see that idea developed more deeply because it's not as abstract as Reaper or Scrouge. Commanding minions raised from dead or assembled from 'parts' is a VERY necromatic thing to do. > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > this sounds cool man. lets be real tho, say what you wanna say. > _auto attacks that summon minions_ The way I see it, that's a very plausible design. As an AA, I can imagine a minion that does explosive damage, similar to how Engineer Grenades work, but it would have to have a twist and not be exactly like Grenades. Like ... the attack isn't dodgeable ... but you can kill the minion. Just throwing ideas out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > I would actually rather see more weapon skills that apply marks. Considering **Marks** are categorized as their own unique type of skill much like guardian symbols and Mesmer clones or phantoms . > > > > "Clone" Skills are scattered throughout all weapons on mesmer along with "Phantom skills" > > "Symbols" are scattered throughout all weapons options of guardian. > > > > Necromancer "Marks" on the other hand are only on staff and not on any other weapons or utilities. Its almost like Marks were the first type of unique skills to be made in the game and the developers got smarter about spreading similar things out across other weapons on other classes rather than leaving 1 weapon with all of them. > > > > How no one has noticed and not brought this up is beyond me. > > _Lich form_ used to have "marks" which is why there is a "marks" trait. It sure is now pretty irrelevant in the context of the current game though. > You know i forgot about those (i dont use lich as often tehse days.) But you are right. > Anyway, _grasping dead_, _enfeebling blood_ or the "old" _unholy feast_ could have been transformed into marks if it was a concern. (Even _putrid explosion_ could very well be transformed into a mark) You know those are not half bad ideas. I would have loved or would still love to see those incorporated as marks. Across other weapons. > > The same way they could transform a few of the staff marks into regular skill and it would most likely benefit the weapon skillset (for example, _putrid mark_ and _reaper's mark_ would be good candidates for self centered aoe effect, while _chillblain_ don't really need to be an aoe skill). I would love for necro staff to get the guardian treatment as far as auto chains, and knocking off some of the lesser marks int better skills. Outrid and reapers mark would be good to remain for aoe effect but mark of blood and chilblain I would be totally fine with dropping for something with a bit more punch regardless if its offensive or utility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dace.8173 Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 > @"Kodama.6453" said: > > @"Dace.8173" said: > > > @"Kodama.6453" said: > > > > @"Dace.8173" said: > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > @"Dace.8173" said: > > > > > > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > > > > > Why is everyone so fixated on super bad ai-minions to play with? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They hold you infight when you don't want them to > > > > > > > They tank enemies you don't want them to tank > > > > > > > They are stupid as f... > > > > > > > Gameplay is hell a lot annoying with minions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I really hope they completely remove necro minions and give him actually good utilities instead. > > > > > > > Not going to happen anyways > > > > > > > > > > > > People like minions and there are a lot of folks who want to get the old GW 1 minion master going again. > > > > > > > > > > It doesn't change the fact that the game isn't really "minion-friendly" and that "minion builds" are seen as "skill-less builds useless in competitive modes". ANet will avoid to raise minions to a level that can be threatening to anyone. And if it's not threatening in any way, "the folks that want the old gw1 minion master" will eternaly be unsatisfied. > > > > > > > > > > ANet's balance of the necromancer's minions reached a state where minions are in the spot they want them to be (no matter how awful this spot is). Adding weapon skills that summon minions in the equation is bound to break this "balance state" and lead to nerfs to the current traits and skills related to minions. > > > > > > > > Well, I'm not saying that it's a good idea. Actually not passing judgment on the idea in general. I'm of the opinion that the old builds from GW1 should just be left in the past anyway. I feel trying to get that feel back, those old professions and builds, does more harm to the game than good. I do wish the AIs were better as I'd really love to see a Golemancer Elite for Engineer. > > > > > > The last thing engineer needs is another elite spec focused on an AI minion type, tbh. > > > We already have turrets and gyros, that's enough. > > > > If the AIs were good I don't think it would be bad. The concept of Engineer pretty much invites lots of AI toys as you build a bunch of stuff to help you out, whether they be turrets, gyros, or golems. If AIs were good, and thus turrets and gyros weren't so bad, then adding another AI based spec wouldn't be that bad. I'm actually amazed that Engineer wasn't already given a golem to summon in Core. It should have been an elite skill like Flesh Golem for Necromancer. Oh well. > > > > Overall though, the AI should be updated and fixed not just so I can have my Golemancer Elite. It would help out Rangers a lot (though I'm not sure they need it) and it would be a big boon for Necromancers. Minions, gyros, turrets, and pets should all be as useful as Mesmer clones are. It would fix a lot of issues. > > Question: What kind of need could this type of minion fulfill that we don't already have? > Turrets are supposed to be our offensive minions. Gyros are supposed to be our defensive, supportive minions. > > Not only would I be extremely annoyed to have another bunch of AI pets, but I simply see no reason to add anymore anyway. What kind of niche do you want them to fulfill? And keep in mind: it should be something that makes actual sense with the golem archetype. I really hope that we won't see a golemancer in the near future, I would like Anet to focus on the chemical aspects of the engineer with the next elite spec. > > Scrapper had a mechanical theme. Holosmith had a hightech cyber theme. Golems would be something in between those two... which would be a waste. Let us explore other aspects of engineering. This isn't really the place to talk about Engineer. I only mentioned Engineer because I was making a broader point about the need to improve AIs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dace.8173 Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > this sounds cool man. lets be real tho, say what you wanna say. > _auto attacks that summon minions_ I don't see them doing an auto attack that summon minions. If they did I imagine they would be so weak as to be useless since you would be spamming a bunch of them as part of an auto chain. > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > I would love for necro staff to get the guardian treatment as far as auto chains, and knocking off some of the lesser marks int better skills. Outrid and reapers mark would be good to remain for aoe effect but mark of blood and chilblain I would be totally fine with dropping for something with a bit more punch regardless if its offensive or utility. I would have to admit that I do find Necromancer staff to be lackluster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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