derd.6413 Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 > @"Teratus.2859" said: > I would say Reaper has more in common with Wraiths than Skulls tbh > > When it comes to new elite specs though I'm at a bit of a loss this time.. I can't really think of much more they can do with the elite specs.. > Although I do like a concept i've got in mind for duel greatsword wielding Warrior which I call the Jugganaut (I know there's a skill with the name) > But other than that.. yeah i'm drawing a total blank for the rest of the classes, makes me glad it's not my job to think them up right now XD we've got enough anime MMOs no need to convert gw2 into one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teratus.2859 Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 > @"derd.6413" said: > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > I would say Reaper has more in common with Wraiths than Skulls tbh > > > > When it comes to new elite specs though I'm at a bit of a loss this time.. I can't really think of much more they can do with the elite specs.. > > Although I do like a concept i've got in mind for duel greatsword wielding Warrior which I call the Jugganaut (I know there's a skill with the name) > > But other than that.. yeah i'm drawing a total blank for the rest of the classes, makes me glad it's not my job to think them up right now XD > > we've got enough anime MMOs no need to convert gw2 into one Dunno where anime MMO's comes from but the inspiration for that Warrior spec actually comes from Ganondorfs design in Hyrule Warriors :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derd.6413 Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > I would say Reaper has more in common with Wraiths than Skulls tbh > > > > > > When it comes to new elite specs though I'm at a bit of a loss this time.. I can't really think of much more they can do with the elite specs.. > > > Although I do like a concept i've got in mind for duel greatsword wielding Warrior which I call the Jugganaut (I know there's a skill with the name) > > > But other than that.. yeah i'm drawing a total blank for the rest of the classes, makes me glad it's not my job to think them up right now XD > > > > we've got enough anime MMOs no need to convert gw2 into one > > Dunno where anime MMO's comes from but the inspiration for that Warrior spec actually comes from Ganondorfs design in Hyrule Warriors :P googled it, it's extremely anime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lily.1935 Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 I think necromancer with stealth would be fine even if they still had shroud. I've been working on an elite spec that might have some stealth for the past few months. Yeah, it's been rough getting it to work properly but its doable without it being overwhelming. I have some neat ideas for this fan elite spec. It is going to use a sword, it is a vampiric elite spec. It does have a shroud. Some unique flavors for it is that the shroud damages the user over time as it decays but offers life stealing, I'm still working out the bugs with that, it's really difficult to balance that out. Some of its moves cause bleeding to the user which gives you buffs based on traits as well as completely changing the skills of your sword for a short period of time. I wanted to use orders as its skill type but the synergy between its aggressive style and supportive skills hasn't been meshing too well in my head so I might scrap that idea and look elsewhere. I'm hoping I find time for it soon. I'd like to hammer it out, but it's been a struggle with work lately. It isn't even the only fan elite spec I said I'd design. I still need to hammer out the ritualist too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dceptaconroy.7928 Posted February 3, 2019 Author Share Posted February 3, 2019 Lily, you other necro scribes are great and I take my hat off to you, for the time spent in hashing out these ideas. It takes effort and resolve knowing it'll be picked apart in both good and bad ways here. Who knows, there's even an off chance a dev could find inspiration. Any brainstorming via 'actual' players has to be as important and knowledgeable as any Anet head. Keep it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derd.6413 Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 > @"Lily.1935" said: > I think necromancer with stealth would be fine even if they still had shroud. I've been working on an elite spec that might have some stealth for the past few months. Yeah, it's been rough getting it to work properly but its doable without it being overwhelming. > > I have some neat ideas for this fan elite spec. It is going to use a sword, it is a vampiric elite spec. It does have a shroud. Some unique flavors for it is that the shroud damages the user over time as it decays but offers life stealing, I'm still working out the bugs with that, it's really difficult to balance that out. Some of its moves cause bleeding to the user which gives you buffs based on traits as well as completely changing the skills of your sword for a short period of time. I wanted to use orders as its skill type but the synergy between its aggressive style and supportive skills hasn't been meshing too well in my head so I might scrap that idea and look elsewhere. I'm hoping I find time for it soon. I'd like to hammer it out, but it's been a struggle with work lately. > > It isn't even the only fan elite spec I said I'd design. I still need to hammer out the ritualist too. From that description and given what suggestions usually are i'd say it's an unfocused spec mostly based on lifesteal thief that's thematicly derivative of bloodmagic. Just a guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 Thematically there is countless possibilities for necromancer's e-specs. We can even say that anything is possible. The real issues lies in the differents philosophies attached to the necromancer's design: soaking damage through health point instead of avoiding damage, impairing foe's mobility instead of outpacing your foes, needing to be agressive to build sustain instead of passive mean of sustain, wilting your opponent's strength instead of building up your own... etc. > The Scourge is the Mummy or other Egyptian themed movies with powerful Undead Sand Liches. If it is, then from my point of view it's a fail... Except for the "sand", the scourge don't really have anything in common with those sand liches that you can see in those movies. Usually egyptian's undead type have strong bond with insects (scarabs) and tend to transform themselve into sand, not protects themselve or allies with sand. While I think that stealth wouldn't be anticlimatic on the necromancer from a thematic point of view, I think it goes against it's design philosophy. The same goes for a necromancer with high amount of "mobility". From my point of view, we have higher probabilities to see the necromancer having some kind of damage transfert toward a minion or the necromancer hindering the ability to dodge than more mobility, dodge or stealth on the necromancer. That's how the design limit the necromancer's thematic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NecroSummonsMors.7816 Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 I would really like a ghost/wraith elite spec, maybe with more mobility and active defences and less AoE, to give necro a more duelist possilibity, that would fit the wraith mask. But imho Anet is not following the masks at all. Said that I'd really a vampire spec too, with double sword and blood magic/sacrifice themed, for example sacrifice life force to gain awesome siphoning capabilities or ability to boost yourself or your allies. (Leave any minion out of elite spec thx bb ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lily.1935 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 > @"derd.6413" said: > > @"Lily.1935" said: > > I think necromancer with stealth would be fine even if they still had shroud. I've been working on an elite spec that might have some stealth for the past few months. Yeah, it's been rough getting it to work properly but its doable without it being overwhelming. > > > > I have some neat ideas for this fan elite spec. It is going to use a sword, it is a vampiric elite spec. It does have a shroud. Some unique flavors for it is that the shroud damages the user over time as it decays but offers life stealing, I'm still working out the bugs with that, it's really difficult to balance that out. Some of its moves cause bleeding to the user which gives you buffs based on traits as well as completely changing the skills of your sword for a short period of time. I wanted to use orders as its skill type but the synergy between its aggressive style and supportive skills hasn't been meshing too well in my head so I might scrap that idea and look elsewhere. I'm hoping I find time for it soon. I'd like to hammer it out, but it's been a struggle with work lately. > > > > It isn't even the only fan elite spec I said I'd design. I still need to hammer out the ritualist too. > > From that description and given what suggestions usually are i'd say it's an unfocused spec mostly based on lifesteal thief that's thematicly derivative of bloodmagic. > > Just a guess My elite specs are always focus. Don't judge it based on minor detail thoughts on it. Deathcap is an elite spec that has extremely strong focus to it. And I want Pulse tracker to be just as focused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 ATM, the necromancer's e-spec are: - Reaper is a slasher from horror movies. The monster that slowly crawl to it's target, chilling their heart by fear and hitting like a truck. - Scourge is a... Coastguard from "Baywatch". There is this distinct feeling of sending buoy (shade and barrier) to your allies, the tormenting sunburns from staying to long tanning on the beach and the sand in your shoes when you return home... I hope the next e-spec don't fall lower, trying to give us "it" and ending giving us "pierrot". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trollocks.5084 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 I'd love the next spec to be a copy of the DAOC Necromancer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dceptaconroy.7928 Posted February 5, 2019 Author Share Posted February 5, 2019 > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > ATM, the necromancer's e-spec are: > - Reaper is a slasher from horror movies. The monster that slowly crawl to it's target, chilling their heart by fear and hitting like a truck. > - Scourge is a... Coastguard from "Baywatch". There is this distinct feeling of sending buoy (shade and barrier) to your allies, the tormenting sunburns from staying to long tanning on the beach and the sand in your shoes when you return home... > > I hope the next e-spec don't fall lower, trying to give us "it" and ending giving us "pierrot". With that description of scourge Dadnir it's a good thing you didnt get into the design team and replace the finger shoulders with the red bay watch apparel. Toons f skill transform animation would have been the Hoff and Pamela. Trail of anguish would have to be tweaked so that slow stylized beach run look comes into play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 > @"dceptaconroy.7928" said: > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > ATM, the necromancer's e-spec are: > > - Reaper is a slasher from horror movies. The monster that slowly crawl to it's target, chilling their heart by fear and hitting like a truck. > > - Scourge is a... Coastguard from "Baywatch". There is this distinct feeling of sending buoy (shade and barrier) to your allies, the tormenting sunburns from staying to long tanning on the beach and the sand in your shoes when you return home... > > > > I hope the next e-spec don't fall lower, trying to give us "it" and ending giving us "pierrot". > > With that description of scourge Dadnir it's a good thing you didnt get into the design team and replace the finger shoulders with the red bay watch apparel. Toons f skill transform animation would have been the Hoff and Pamela. Trail of anguish would have to be tweaked so that slow stylized beach run look comes into play. But we would have the swimsuit armor! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akrasia.5469 Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 > @"Lily.1935" said: > The themes that we're seeing in the Elite specs are inspired by horror movies. The reaper is the slow moving Tanky Movie horror monster like Jason, Pyramid Head, that sort of thing. The Scourge is the Mummy or other Egyptian themed movies with powerful Undead Sand Liches. So we're likely to see other Horror tropes rise with that. The Wraith is more Folklore and not supper popular in terms of Films. The Poltergeist would be more in line with this, so a Spec Summoning Ghosties(Ritualist), The Vampire spec, a Zombie spec or Eldritch Horror spec. These are what I see as the most likely. How about a Frankenstein based elite that has an evil engineer feel to it? Swapping weapon kits and summoning "the monster" as it's mechanics change. As a Sylvari necro I wouldn't mind seeing a swamp creature necro elite. As for mechanics, I'd like to see stealth for Necro. It's a trait every good movie monster has. Jason always seems to disappear and then show up in front of you. Vampires, Ghosts, and hell even Zombies all get the kill most times by surprise. Not being able to see the scary monster is part of the horror. It's WAY overdue to give necros stealth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 > @"derd.6413" said: > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > even without a shroud stealth necro would be a bad idea > > > > Why? > > Personally I don't think this would be an issue balance wise since the core necromancer don't have excessive mobility or one shot mechanism inbuilt in it's weapon skills and utility skills. Where I see an issue is more that it doesn't fit well with the defensive philosophy of the necromancer because it's an indirect damage avoidance mechanism while the necromancer's defense philosophy is to not "avoid" damage. > > > > Thematicaly, stealth fit with quite a few folklore monster (vampire, specter, ghost or even the most common murderer from thrillers/horror movie tend to be proficient at staying hidden from prying eyes). I'd even say that it's already quite surprising that stealth didn't make it to the necromancer up to now. > > hit the nail on the head there "stealth as a mechanic doesn't fit necro" I think for necro to get stealth it would require a rework to stealth as a whole to be honest. - 1 stealth does not do much for pve - stealth can be hard to balance and we all know that necro with anything remotely good will get complained about by everyone who is not a necro regardless of what the mechanic is. - Anet needs to let go of the staple that necro should always be slow but hit hard. (too many classes in the game right now) that hit harder and are several times faster not only i mobility but in skill use and skill recovery. To say stealth does not fit on necro is probably true its more like camouflage would be more accurate That said Dadnir is correct. Vampires, killers, Users of dark arts. Often like to stay hidden until the time is right and often can vanish without a trace. Even if they are not out right turning invisible it could be correct to say that they are very well mastered when it comes to the art of disengage or camouflage. I could see necro getting a lesser stealth mechanic that partly hides them and that maybe prevents them from being directly targeted by skills that often require a target for them to hit but still susceptible to aoe or your standard sword swing melee. Perhaps if they are beyond a certain range they are completely invisible to some one who might be looking for them etc. This could fit a vampire or ghostly wraith spec very easily both which seem to be popular ideas at the moment I think regardless of what idea anet pics next its going to synergies with one of the core lines there is really nothing wrong with this concept even though core covers others ideas that you called out such as blood magic with vampire, or death magic with some others etc. But lets be real core necroamancer is a jack of all trades who is lesser of a jack. Blood magic is realistically stealing death magics job and death magic needs to considerably be improved. Soul reaping no longer really covers ghostly or spectral aspects now that the spectral traits have been removed from it. Blood magic with a vampire type line would be nice and make for great synergy to make the line stand out. If we see a dark hexing ritualist it will probably aline with curses which is some what the same thing. In truth though I think any idea we toss up that seems solid and or strong as a mechanic can arguably be shot down as "It wont fit necro" because necro is never allowed to keep anything thats solid and strong as a mechanic at least not intact as a whole. When something is moderately unpleasant it gets removed or changed because its unfun for other players. How ever when we see this happen on other classes they hardly get touched. Its always been a bit biased imo anet has always had the chance to do greater unique ideas on necromancer and its elite specs but if something is not fun for people fighting against it or they dont want to recode something it gets the lazy fix rather than a well thought out fix regardless if its pvp or pve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derd.6413 Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > even without a shroud stealth necro would be a bad idea > > > > > > Why? > > > Personally I don't think this would be an issue balance wise since the core necromancer don't have excessive mobility or one shot mechanism inbuilt in it's weapon skills and utility skills. Where I see an issue is more that it doesn't fit well with the defensive philosophy of the necromancer because it's an indirect damage avoidance mechanism while the necromancer's defense philosophy is to not "avoid" damage. > > > > > > Thematicaly, stealth fit with quite a few folklore monster (vampire, specter, ghost or even the most common murderer from thrillers/horror movie tend to be proficient at staying hidden from prying eyes). I'd even say that it's already quite surprising that stealth didn't make it to the necromancer up to now. > > > > hit the nail on the head there "stealth as a mechanic doesn't fit necro" > > snipp the issue i have with the ghost/vamp suggestions is that they usually are just core necro line but better, rather then do something interesting with it. same kinda goes for the stealth suggestions (that or they're poorly thought out) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 > @"derd.6413" said: > the issue i have with the ghost/vamp suggestions is that they usually are just core necro line but better, rather then do something interesting with it. same kinda goes for the stealth suggestions (that or they're poorly thought out) This is an argument that is valid for most of the e-specs released by ANet though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 > @"derd.6413" said: > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > > even without a shroud stealth necro would be a bad idea > > > > > > > > Why? > > > > Personally I don't think this would be an issue balance wise since the core necromancer don't have excessive mobility or one shot mechanism inbuilt in it's weapon skills and utility skills. Where I see an issue is more that it doesn't fit well with the defensive philosophy of the necromancer because it's an indirect damage avoidance mechanism while the necromancer's defense philosophy is to not "avoid" damage. > > > > > > > > Thematicaly, stealth fit with quite a few folklore monster (vampire, specter, ghost or even the most common murderer from thrillers/horror movie tend to be proficient at staying hidden from prying eyes). I'd even say that it's already quite surprising that stealth didn't make it to the necromancer up to now. > > > > > > hit the nail on the head there "stealth as a mechanic doesn't fit necro" > > > > snipp > > the issue i have with the ghost/vamp suggestions is that they usually are just core necro line but better, rather then do something interesting with it. same kinda goes for the stealth suggestions (that or they're poorly thought out) Well lets look at a few things For example Reaper is roughly just a more offensive version of core with the cost of range for powerful melee. Everything reaper does can be done on core so its just a better line of spite / and soul reaping mixed together. The only thing different about reaper is that its melee focused which is not an option core necro really has at all. Yes you have dagger but you cant fight a warrior with a dagger you will get steam rolled. A necromancers survivability up till reaper was dependent on conditioning foes down so that you could kite them and wait for them to make mistakes and punish them for it. Reaper compensates some of this weakness by granted the necro with a boosted shroud (walk into a reaper shroud without a plan and you die) Scourge on the other hand is a totally different monster its basically its own "Better" core necromancer. Now... yes its different, but at the same time its poorly constructed in my eyes. It grants powerful aoe prowess for controlling the battle field with zone pressure. But necromancer already had this in its kit. Reaper cleaves a pretty wide area even in its melee range has skills like Grasping darkness, and Nightfall on the great sword. Reaper also has shouts which focus on aoe to the core to reach their maximum effectiveness. To extend this even more Core has the option of wide aoe weapons like staff and scepter. Blood magic boast wells which are also aoe focused, Death shroud has skills like tainted shackles and life transfer which are aoe pressure focused. Necormancer already had tons of aoe and yet anet chose to add more and just make it "Better" by simply making aoe pressure more available, which by the way people who have to play against it dislike very much. Anet took aoe and support via boon corrupt and zone control on necro and made it slightly better by making it more available thats scourge in a nutshell. In short this was the least creative idea they ever done because they simply added more of something necromancer already had tons of options for even if the options were not super strong in its core kit and even within reapers kit. At this point any idea thats too different "wont fit because its not the same at all or would be mechanically too strong in theory thus making it to unfair or unpleasant to play against" or "is just a better version of something that core necro already has, thus is a bad idea or not thought out very well." Stealth is a no Mobility is a no Blocks are a no Evades are a no Insta 1 shot burst are a no Must always have a plethora of boon corrupt yes (i dont know why) Must always be slow Must always have long ish cooldown recharges Must often have more risk than reward than other classes If it has the same weapon as another core class it must be slower by default So when we really start looking at ideas that could make necro different as far as playing there wont ever be something thats just a better version of something core kit kinda already has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadvillager.1956 Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > SNIIIIIP > So when we really start looking at ideas that could make necro different as far as playing there wont ever be something thats just a better version of something core kit kinda already has. > That feels a little too bland of a description to me. IMO, every espec up until now took something from the core necro, twisted it and put it back. Reaper is not just a better spite, it is spite on steroids with intimidating and (almost) devastating blows added in. Scourge is a curse traitline focused around longtermed wells that can pulse damage, support, corrupt or all of the above at the same time (damn balance team make up your mind!). This in turn makes all the elite specs feel very coherent and fun to combine, in contrast to other classes that are stuck with effective but weird feeling trait combos. As for the next elite spec, we might have the freedom to either grab the next traitline and blend it with literally anything we can think off OR we think of ways to introduce completely new mechanics for necro by abusing the shroud. Stealth: use life force to turn invisible for a maximum of x seconds, time spent invisible increases your damage. Mobility: use life force to create death nodes around you, use life force to teleport between death nodes. Blocks: use life force to gain x buff on abilities F1-F5. Instashot: use life force to turn into a death tornado exploding once your life force reaches zero, damage amplifies with the time spent in the death tornado. Its really easy, someone just has to put time into it. And there is people getting paid for exactly that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > _snip_ Well, the necromancer face a situation that is interesting in the fact that it focus less on thematic than on it's differents design philosophy. - Defense? The necromancer's defense philosophy is to soak damage through health point. - Buff? The necromancer's philosophy is to destroy them not to give them. - Mobility? The necromancer's philosophy is to reduce the mobility of it's opponent, not to increase it's own. - ... etc. In a way it's extremly frustrating for the players because it's counter-intuitive and like you said, if ANet continue to follow these philosophies, the necromancer won't ever feel different but always having a better version of what he already got. However, in another way, ANet still have more than enough room to develop tools around these philosophies. For example, Mirage and Daredevil have a lot of evade and this create an uproar, it wouldn't be much of a stretch to imagine that ANet is readying itself to introduce a necromancer e-spec that counter the idea of dodging instead of giving more dodge to the necromancer. They just need to build things around weakness, introduce a mechanism that deal damage to the endurance bar and put it on a necromancer e-spec. (the issue being that it wouldn't change anything to the necromancer and that other professions would instantly vomit profanities about how OP this new e-spec is... Something that happen with each new necromancer e-spec) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > _snip_ > > Well, the necromancer face a situation that is interesting in the fact that it focus less on thematic than on it's differents design philosophy. > - Defense? The necromancer's defense philosophy is to soak damage through health point. If necro had proper defensive tools or traits to handle the sheer amount of damage that is thrown out in 2019 I would agree but anet has never done this properly no matter how much hp or toughness you can stack on necro you can still be 1 shot by a another profession where the moblity, evades, and or sheer damage drasticaly over powers te philosophy of soaking damage. > - Buff? The necromancer's philosophy is to destroy them not to give them. If the philosophy of necromancer was properly managed to keep up with how other philosophies have improved or changed I would be perfectly fine with not going against them for new elite spec ideas but thats not happening and it seems that anet is not ever really looking at doing such a thing. > - Mobility? The necromancer's philosophy is to reduce the mobility of it's opponent, not to increase it's own. We have seen increases to mobility in several ways but not ways to increases the effectiveness of mobility impairing effects so this is a problem. > - ... etc. > > In a way it's extremly frustrating for the players because it's counter-intuitive and like you said, if ANet continue to follow these philosophies, the necromancer won't ever feel different but always having a better version of what he already got. > > However, in another way, ANet still have more than enough room to develop tools around these philosophies. For example, Mirage and Daredevil have a lot of evade and this create an uproar, it wouldn't be much of a stretch to imagine that ANet is readying itself to introduce a necromancer e-spec that counter the idea of dodging instead of giving more dodge to the necromancer. They just need to build things around weakness, introduce a mechanism that deal damage to the endurance bar and put it on a necromancer e-spec. (the issue being that it wouldn't change anything to the necromancer and that other professions would instantly vomit profanities about how OP this new e-spec is... Something that happen with each new necromancer e-spec) If we had things that improved necros philosophies to a great extent I might not be opposed to things being a certain way. Lets think, Necro with traits that effect things like "impairing conditions being more effective Chill, Cripple, Weakness being 33% more effective etc / affecting the distance of movement skills" (which use to be a thing) would be nice but seen as too strong and too un fun to play against while being practically non beneficial in pve. Fear becoming a hard stun effect so that its not countered by both condition cleanse, resistance, and break stuns / stability. As you said it would lead to people vomiting profanities up till the point it gets culled which in itself is extremely biased as heck. Because things like this have not happened I cant say that its not wrong to want to go against some of necros philosophies because its super frustrating when other philosophies are growing stronger which allows other professions to gain newer and stronger mechanics while necro is stuck ideally at the same level it has been from Pre HoT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 > @"Deadvillager.1956" said: > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > SNIIIIIP > > So when we really start looking at ideas that could make necro different as far as playing there wont ever be something thats just a better version of something core kit kinda already has. > > > > That feels a little too bland of a description to me. IMO, every espec up until now took something from the core necro, twisted it and put it back. Reaper is not just a better spite, it is spite on steroids with intimidating and (almost) devastating blows added in. Scourge is a curse traitline focused around longtermed wells that can pulse damage, support, corrupt or all of the above at the same time (kitten balance team make up your mind!). This in turn makes all the elite specs feel very coherent and fun to combine, in contrast to other classes that are stuck with effective but weird feeling trait combos. Well thats kind of the point i was making there should be nothing wrong with elite spec ideas such as vampire etch even though we already have a blood magic line. There should be no reason to argue that its not a good idea just because it would be a better version of x or y. But there seems to be alot of that going around. > > As for the next elite spec, we might have the freedom to either grab the next traitline and blend it with literally anything we can think off OR we think of ways to introduce completely new mechanics for necro by abusing the shroud. Stealth: use life force to turn invisible for a maximum of x seconds, time spent invisible increases your damage. Mobility: use life force to create death nodes around you, use life force to teleport between death nodes. Blocks: use life force to gain x buff on abilities F1-F5. Instashot: use life force to turn into a death tornado exploding once your life force reaches zero, damage amplifies with the time spent in the death tornado. Its really easy, someone just has to put time into it. And there is people getting paid for exactly that. Well the idea is that some people are pretty much saying cant do that cause blocks dont fit into necro, stealth simply wont fit into necro while i dont agree with that its just the counter argument that I often get tired of hearing. We can stick to necro philosophies and people wont like them when they are strong resulting in their culling and if we consider things out side of the box from necro philosophies we simply put "cant have it because of that reason" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derd.6413 Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > @"Deadvillager.1956" said: > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > SNIIIIIP > > > So when we really start looking at ideas that could make necro different as far as playing there wont ever be something thats just a better version of something core kit kinda already has. > > > > > > > That feels a little too bland of a description to me. IMO, every espec up until now took something from the core necro, twisted it and put it back. Reaper is not just a better spite, it is spite on steroids with intimidating and (almost) devastating blows added in. Scourge is a curse traitline focused around longtermed wells that can pulse damage, support, corrupt or all of the above at the same time (kitten balance team make up your mind!). This in turn makes all the elite specs feel very coherent and fun to combine, in contrast to other classes that are stuck with effective but weird feeling trait combos. > > Well thats kind of the point i was making there should be nothing wrong with elite spec ideas such as vampire etch even though we already have a blood magic line. There should be no reason to argue that its not a good idea just because it would be a better version of x or y. But there seems to be alot of that going around. > > > > > As for the next elite spec, we might have the freedom to either grab the next traitline and blend it with literally anything we can think off OR we think of ways to introduce completely new mechanics for necro by abusing the shroud. Stealth: use life force to turn invisible for a maximum of x seconds, time spent invisible increases your damage. Mobility: use life force to create death nodes around you, use life force to teleport between death nodes. Blocks: use life force to gain x buff on abilities F1-F5. Instashot: use life force to turn into a death tornado exploding once your life force reaches zero, damage amplifies with the time spent in the death tornado. Its really easy, someone just has to put time into it. And there is people getting paid for exactly that. > > Well the idea is that some people are pretty much saying cant do that cause blocks dont fit into necro, stealth simply wont fit into necro while i dont agree with that its just the counter argument that I often get tired of hearing. We can stick to necro philosophies and people wont like them when they are strong resulting in their culling and if we consider things out side of the box from necro philosophies we simply put "cant have it because of that reason" > I find that especs that get added (at least the well deigned ones) ar least try to put an interesting spin on core concepts which i don't see in forum suggestions. "The same but better" rather then "the same but diffrent" (if that makes sense) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 > @"derd.6413" said: > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > @"Deadvillager.1956" said: > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > SNIIIIIP > > > > So when we really start looking at ideas that could make necro different as far as playing there wont ever be something thats just a better version of something core kit kinda already has. > > > > > > > > > > That feels a little too bland of a description to me. IMO, every espec up until now took something from the core necro, twisted it and put it back. Reaper is not just a better spite, it is spite on steroids with intimidating and (almost) devastating blows added in. Scourge is a curse traitline focused around longtermed wells that can pulse damage, support, corrupt or all of the above at the same time (kitten balance team make up your mind!). This in turn makes all the elite specs feel very coherent and fun to combine, in contrast to other classes that are stuck with effective but weird feeling trait combos. > > > > Well thats kind of the point i was making there should be nothing wrong with elite spec ideas such as vampire etch even though we already have a blood magic line. There should be no reason to argue that its not a good idea just because it would be a better version of x or y. But there seems to be alot of that going around. > > > > > > > > As for the next elite spec, we might have the freedom to either grab the next traitline and blend it with literally anything we can think off OR we think of ways to introduce completely new mechanics for necro by abusing the shroud. Stealth: use life force to turn invisible for a maximum of x seconds, time spent invisible increases your damage. Mobility: use life force to create death nodes around you, use life force to teleport between death nodes. Blocks: use life force to gain x buff on abilities F1-F5. Instashot: use life force to turn into a death tornado exploding once your life force reaches zero, damage amplifies with the time spent in the death tornado. Its really easy, someone just has to put time into it. And there is people getting paid for exactly that. > > > > Well the idea is that some people are pretty much saying cant do that cause blocks dont fit into necro, stealth simply wont fit into necro while i dont agree with that its just the counter argument that I often get tired of hearing. We can stick to necro philosophies and people wont like them when they are strong resulting in their culling and if we consider things out side of the box from necro philosophies we simply put "cant have it because of that reason" > > > > I find that especs that get added (at least the well deigned ones) ar least try to put an interesting spin on core concepts which i don't see in forum suggestions. > > "The same but better" rather then "the same but diffrent" (if that makes sense) Well for something to be the same but different you need to give it something somewhere that it otherwise is not good at or simply never had good angle on doing. So looking at @"Dadnir.5038" here when I think about this. We must keep necromancers core philosophy. This means in short - no hard blocks - no mobility increases - no additional evades - no stealth - no break target - is condition dependent even on power builds - Is vulnerable to crowd control - Must have moderate to considerable levels of aoe - Must use Hp to sustain itself rather than damage avoidance of any kind even if tools are not given to increase this effect to the equality of damage avoidance tools - Must apply a plethora of conditions including cripple / weakness - Must have scattered Boon corrupt - Must be slow this includes any weapon that comes from an elite spec (must be slower than all other professions that can use that same weapon type) - Self boon generation is limited to might, protection, a bit of swiftness (again) And this is just to name a few of the obvious ones. So our ideas need to keep these philosophies while being different from the current 3 play styles of core, reaper, and scourge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derd.6413 Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > @"Deadvillager.1956" said: > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > SNIIIIIP > > > > > So when we really start looking at ideas that could make necro different as far as playing there wont ever be something thats just a better version of something core kit kinda already has. > > > > > > > > > > > > > That feels a little too bland of a description to me. IMO, every espec up until now took something from the core necro, twisted it and put it back. Reaper is not just a better spite, it is spite on steroids with intimidating and (almost) devastating blows added in. Scourge is a curse traitline focused around longtermed wells that can pulse damage, support, corrupt or all of the above at the same time (kitten balance team make up your mind!). This in turn makes all the elite specs feel very coherent and fun to combine, in contrast to other classes that are stuck with effective but weird feeling trait combos. > > > > > > Well thats kind of the point i was making there should be nothing wrong with elite spec ideas such as vampire etch even though we already have a blood magic line. There should be no reason to argue that its not a good idea just because it would be a better version of x or y. But there seems to be alot of that going around. > > > > > > > > > > > As for the next elite spec, we might have the freedom to either grab the next traitline and blend it with literally anything we can think off OR we think of ways to introduce completely new mechanics for necro by abusing the shroud. Stealth: use life force to turn invisible for a maximum of x seconds, time spent invisible increases your damage. Mobility: use life force to create death nodes around you, use life force to teleport between death nodes. Blocks: use life force to gain x buff on abilities F1-F5. Instashot: use life force to turn into a death tornado exploding once your life force reaches zero, damage amplifies with the time spent in the death tornado. Its really easy, someone just has to put time into it. And there is people getting paid for exactly that. > > > > > > Well the idea is that some people are pretty much saying cant do that cause blocks dont fit into necro, stealth simply wont fit into necro while i dont agree with that its just the counter argument that I often get tired of hearing. We can stick to necro philosophies and people wont like them when they are strong resulting in their culling and if we consider things out side of the box from necro philosophies we simply put "cant have it because of that reason" > > > > > > > I find that especs that get added (at least the well deigned ones) ar least try to put an interesting spin on core concepts which i don't see in forum suggestions. > > > > "The same but better" rather then "the same but diffrent" (if that makes sense) > > Well for something to be the same but different you need to give it something somewhere that it otherwise is not good at or simply never had good angle on doing. > So looking at @"Dadnir.5038" here when I think about this. > > We must keep necromancers core philosophy. This means in short > - no hard blocks > - no mobility increases > - no additional evades > - no stealth > - no break target > - is condition dependent even on power builds > - Is vulnerable to crowd control > - Must have moderate to considerable levels of aoe > - Must use Hp to sustain itself rather than damage avoidance of any kind even if tools are not given to increase this effect to the equality of damage avoidance tools > - Must apply a plethora of conditions including cripple / weakness > - Must have scattered Boon corrupt > - Must be slow this includes any weapon that comes from an elite spec (must be slower than all other professions that can use that same weapon type) > - Self boon generation is limited to might, protection, a bit of swiftness (again) > > And this is just to name a few of the obvious ones. > > So our ideas need to keep these philosophies while being different from the current 3 play styles of core, reaper, and scourge? > no,that'd be unreasonable but you have to put more thought into it then "let's add stealth because jumpscares, lol" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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