Why should I pay for the story, when I already have bought both expansions?

[Skotlex.7580]

I do think that maybe, perhaps, at some point, ANet should make the really old content free, just like they did with the core game when the first expansion hit. Otherwise, new players will keep seeing an ever mounting cash wall when they inquire into what it costs to get into GW2 and they take into account all LS releases.

 

The current model works because a free release keeps players logging in, and those are potential buyers. In other words, if all episodes were free, chunks of casual players wouldn't bother to login (knowing they can just login whenever and get all content they missed), thus costing ANet potential gem shop customers. Just like login rewards, they need to keep players motivated to login frequently, and the gemshop updated regularly with goodies that will get some of them to spend cash.

 

Maybe the reason ANet feels the current method is fine is because players have the option to unlock the content in game with gold by converting. Would new players feel any less "cheated" if additional maps cost 100 gold each instead of gems? Then they wouldn't outright think ANet is trying to rob them... even if the end result is similar (some will just buy gems and convert them to gold...).

 

 

[Neutra.6857]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> Arenanet has been treating new players badly for a rather long time and the disjointed story is a huge part of it, especially for players that buy both expansions and can't experience the story between them. I know it's a loyalty reward for players that are logging in monthly, but it's something that is not communicated well (if at all) to new players. Plus the whole mess with Season 1 that is also not available for newer players and there is little to no explanation for them. Sure we know why Season 1 isn't available, sure we know why the episodes are released this way, but new players don't and the game is doing a terrible job at telling them.

 

Uhuh, Anet treating new players badly is why so many vets where pissed when HOT came out and there was no extra character slot and the cost of for new people to buy HOT (plus core game) was significantly less then it was for vets to buy core game and then to buy HOT.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"kasoki.5180" said:

> Finally, your argument about it "not being free because you pay fur sub" is semantics for semantics sake. Its like those people that screech whenever someone uses the term free healthcare.

> Like, we all know what was meant when i said "free if you subscribe". Making points about semantics just for semantics sake contributes little to the discussion. My main point still remains, and that is that in other MMO story is far more accessible to new players, and also cheaper

But **is** it cheaper? You are completely ignoring subscription costs here, which aren't small. In fact, they are huge. Compared to them, GW2 LS costs are peanuts. And remember, no subscription-based game is going to waive subscription costs for you just as a reward for being active (because that would be ridiculous), like it happens with GW2 and LS costs.

 

Remember, it's 2.5$ per episode, which happens at best once per 3 months. Where are you going to find a subscription based game with subscription costs below 1$ monthly? In ESO, brought up as an example, when looked at it this way, content is 16x more costly than in GW2. And that's ignoring the fact you can get current LS episodes for free.

[kasoki.5180]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"kasoki.5180" said:

> > Finally, your argument about it "not being free because you pay fur sub" is semantics for semantics sake. Its like those people that screech whenever someone uses the term free healthcare.

> > Like, we all know what was meant when i said "free if you subscribe". Making points about semantics just for semantics sake contributes little to the discussion. My main point still remains, and that is that in other MMO story is far more accessible to new players, and also cheaper

> But **is** it cheaper? You are completely ignoring subscription costs here, which aren't small. In fact, they are huge. Compared to them, GW2 LS costs are peanuts. And remember, no subscription-based game is going to waive subscription costs for you just as a reward for being active (because that would be ridiculous), like it happens with GW2 and LS costs.

>

> Remember, it's 2.5$ per episode, which happens at best once per 3 months. Where are you going to find a subscription based game with subscription costs below 1$ monthly? In ESO, brought up as an example, when looked at it this way, content is 16x more costly than in GW2. And that's ignoring the fact you can get current LS episodes for free.

 

I was looking at things from the perspective of new/returning players. For them its not 2.5 every few months because their starting position is that they need to buy all the historical content,at this point basically 3 seasons of LWS + 2 expansions. If i subscribe to WoW I get entire story outside most recent expansion for 13 Euros. For that money I can buy a single LWS Guild Wars 2. So yes, it is cheaper. Subscriptions are obviously more costly for players in the long run. But I don't consider it as a negative since it can provide company with resources for more quality content. (Dont get me wrong, I think that LWS are great)

 

> @"Neutra.6857" said:

> > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > Arenanet has been treating new players badly for a rather long time and the disjointed story is a huge part of it, especially for players that buy both expansions and can't experience the story between them. I know it's a loyalty reward for players that are logging in monthly, but it's something that is not communicated well (if at all) to new players. Plus the whole mess with Season 1 that is also not available for newer players and there is little to no explanation for them. Sure we know why Season 1 isn't available, sure we know why the episodes are released this way, but new players don't and the game is doing a terrible job at telling them.

>

> Uhuh, Anet treating new players badly is why so many vets where pissed when HOT came out and there was no extra character slot and the cost of for new people to buy HOT (plus core game) was significantly less then it was for vets to buy core game and then to buy HOT.

 

You do realize that two demographics can be treated badly at the same time for different reasons? Its not either/or situation here thats the problem.

[kasoki.5180]

> @"Hugheszie.6291" said:

> > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > @"kasoki.5180" said:

> >

> > > This game can barely get any new players.

> >

> > Please cite your source for this fact. Otherwise, only ANet has this data and, if your argument were true, I'm sure that they would find ways to remedy it.

>

> Well, the comment "This game can barely get any new players" isn't true. Anet should see a spike since battle for azeroth launched, as the mass exodus happened.

> Almost my entire guild left WoW and play GW2 now. Many other player would of followed - I've found so many people in GW2 who have left Wow in the last couple of months. People running around called "LichKing***" "Aundiun***" "Horde***" etc.

 

I have already provided the source that google interest for GW2 isn't really experienceing any significant changes. The fact that your friends have switched games doesn't change the general trend. I have recently returned to WoW, so have many of my friends. That doesn't mean that general trend of WoW is increase in playerbase

[MoriMoriMori.5349]

> @"Skotlex.7580" said:

> I do think that maybe, perhaps, at some point, ANet should make the really old content free, just like they did with the core game when the first expansion hit. Otherwise, new players will keep seeing an ever mounting cash wall when they inquire into what it costs to get into GW2 and they take into account all LS releases.

 

I would be satisfied with just a *significant* discount (-50% at least). As this content is rather old, anyway, and it's just that - an additional content (not a new game in any way), with a story of.. ok quality, at best. As I said, I can buy extremely good games at Steam, with way, way better stories and with a whole new game included in the package (Witcher series, Metro series, TES series etc) few years after their release for very little money (5-15$), then why have I pay for the same kind of outdated content in GW2 as if it's been released this year? This just feels as I'm robbed and forced to buy overpriced digital things.

 

[Skotlex.7580]

> @"MoriMoriMori.5349" said:

> > @"Skotlex.7580" said:

> > I do think that maybe, perhaps, at some point, ANet should make the really old content free, just like they did with the core game when the first expansion hit. Otherwise, new players will keep seeing an ever mounting cash wall when they inquire into what it costs to get into GW2 and they take into account all LS releases.

>

> I would be satisfied with just a *significant* discount (-50% at least). As this content is rather old, anyway, and it's just that - an additional content (not a new game in any way), with a story of.. ok quality, at best. As I said, I can buy extremely good games at Steam, with way, way better stories and with a whole new game included in the package (Witcher series, Metro series, Morrowind series etc) few years after their release for very little money (5-15$), then why have I pay for the same kind of outdated content in GW2 as if it's been released this year? This just feels as I'm robbed and forced to buy overpriced digital things.

 

But that's the issue: people aren't forced to buy anything to experience the whole story here because it can be acquired in game. But new players don't know that, or they may may not have a means to amass the gold required without being forced to skip the story.

 

For instance, if a new player wants to play LS2 before heading into HOT, that leaves them stuck farming gold in the silverwastes (probably an awful experience for a story minded player). At least with LS3, they can use the HOT metas (like auric basin) to start saving for the next chapters.

 

Considering that it doesn't even grants access to new maps, I do think LS2 should be free (or much cheaper to acquire) than LS3 or LS4.

[kharmin.7683]

> @"MoriMoriMori.5349" said:

> That's it. So it **can't be** acquired in game by quite a lot of players, despite many like to claim it can be.

This is patently false. It can be acquired in game, but if players would prefer not to grind gold to convert to gems, then Anet has offered the alternative of purchasing gems outright which can then be used to purchase content. Just because certain players do not like a particular avenue does not make it something that "can't be acquired."

 

[MoriMoriMori.5349]

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > @"MoriMoriMori.5349" said:

> > That's it. So it **can't be** acquired in game by quite a lot of players, despite many like to claim it can be.

> This is patently false. It can be acquired in game, but if players would prefer not to grind gold to convert to gems, then Anet has offered the alternative of purchasing gems outright which can then be used to purchase content. Just because certain players do not like a particular avenue does not make it something that "can't be acquired."

 

You can acquire a personal villa on Bali and a private jet - you just need to try a bit harder. The fact something is theoretically possible is of no use for majority of people for whom this will stay like that - a theory.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

What's the rush? It took me many months to 'finish' Core Tyria and the PS. It takes less than a month to acquire 60 Gold for an Episode, and that's doing very little (Dailies). Why do 'new' players have to rush through the content, when most of us did not?

Truly, there is more to the game than just the 'story'. And, if that is all one is interested in, there's going to be disappointment once one is caught up with the story. Probably a single-player RPG would be better suited.

[MoriMoriMori.5349]

> @"Cerioth.7062" said:

> Why, I have not actively grinded anything in the game for 2 years and I have 11 legendaries.

 

And I've been playing for a month already, and I've earned around 30 gold so far. I hit 80lv week ago, and I can't even advance to HOT which I bought because I feel badly about missing a lot of story. So either I need to wait for another few months, hoping that the gold I need will be accumulated while I'm playing for fun with no grind, just to get to the content I've already paid for, or pay for an overpriced, outdated extra story content which costs as much as **a separate game of an excellent quality on Steam**, or grind day and night to get more gold. Neither of three seems like an option to me, they all are quite atrocious.

[Maikimaik.1974]

> @"MoriMoriMori.5349" said:

> > @"Cerioth.7062" said:

> > Why, I have not actively grinded anything in the game for 2 years and I have 11 legendaries.

>

> And I've been playing for a month already, and I've earned around 30 gold so far. I hit 80lv week ago, and I can't even advance to HOT which I bought because I feel badly about missing a lot of story. So either I need to wait for another few months, hoping that the gold I need will be accumulated while I'm playing for fun with no grind, just to get to the content I've already paid for, or pay for an overpriced, outdated extra story content which costs as much as **a separate game of an excellent quality on Steam**, or grind day and night to get more gold. Neither of three seems like an option to me, they all are quite atrocious.

 

Then stop complaining and stop playing. The price is not going to change, and that's a good thing because the price is low enough. If you don't think it's worth spending money on, then it isn't worth playing at all.

[kharmin.7683]

> @"MoriMoriMori.5349" said:

> > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > @"MoriMoriMori.5349" said:

> > > That's it. So it **can't be** acquired in game by quite a lot of players, despite many like to claim it can be.

> > This is patently false. It can be acquired in game, but if players would prefer not to grind gold to convert to gems, then Anet has offered the alternative of purchasing gems outright which can then be used to purchase content. Just because certain players do not like a particular avenue does not make it something that "can't be acquired."

>

> You can acquire a personal villa on Bali and a private jet - you just need to try a bit harder. The fact something is theoretically possible is of no use for majority of people for whom this will stay like that - a theory.

 

That's not even the same argument. The point is either one can afford LS episodes or one cannot; the method of obtaining them does not make them such that they "can't be" acquired.

 

The majority of players are able to afford LS episodes with the current structure. If they weren't, then ANet would offer a different solution, or the game would fold.

[MoriMoriMori.5349]

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> That's not even the same argument.

 

Sure, if you say so. That's a high-quality counter-argument you are presenting here, I don't even know how to object..

 

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

>The point is either one can afford LS episodes or one cannot; the method of obtaining them does not make them such that they "can't be" acquired.

 

The point is that it doesn't feel like a fair deal, and more like an forcing an overpriced content on you - and a lot of people will just ignore it, will watch the story on youtube, yet still will get alienated against the company for such kind of marketing. And, when you buy those DLCs, at no point they warn you you'll need to buy anything else to be able to actually enjoy content which come with them - that's no doubt shady marketing here, same as when you are lured into purchasing something for "extremely low price of 9.99$", only to discover later there are tons of extra options you'll need to buy for it to be of any use. Shame on you, Anet.

 

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> The majority of players are able to afford LS episodes with the current structure. If they weren't, then ANet would offer a different solution, or the game would fold.

 

That's a very far-fetched assumption, which I bet you can't even back up with solid evidence. Anet as well could just don't care that much about those who reject buying it, instead making those few who decide to buy it to pay times more than it really worth, to make up for those who didn't - what seems more like a case to me, as for the content like this price is surely way over the top. A mediocre, generic story, (mostly) boring, shallow character, simplistic cut-scenes and (mostly) meh-tier voice acting, several years since it was released, bring almost nothing new in terms of gameplay - and it costs the same as older Witcher and Metro games which are times better in every possible department and actually a full separate games. Yea, totally fair deal, Anet, thanks but no.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Sounds like you would be happier playing one of those Steam games. The pricing structure here is unlikely to change, and if participating in Dailies is a 'grind', I feel this game is better suited to others.

 

Best of luck.

[MoriMoriMori.5349]

> @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> Sounds like you would be happier playing one of those Steam games. The pricing structure here is unlikely to change, and if participating in Dailies is a 'grind', I feel this game is better suited to others.

 

It's grind by definition. A repetitive, devoid of any fun and challenge activity where you don't solve any problems but just click and hit buttons mindlessly to get through it asap. I avoid it (and similar activities) as a plague exactly because I came here to play a game, not to participate in some job-like chores you need to do to just afford to pay your bills. What I can't get is why all those other people do those boring, devoid of any actual game elements things in game while they could just get themselves a 2nd job IRL with much better future perspectives, or just tend to their lawn - it's exactly the same kind of thing they do in game, after all, just with no real, tangible profit.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Again, sounds like this game is just not for you.

[Skotlex.7580]

I feel quite a few people are missing the actual complain in this thread?

 

In short, if somebody buys the game with the intention of playing through the story foremost, they could (very likely, actually) end up buying both expansions and then feeling very disappointed to learn they need to either pay up to get the missing parts of the story, or start farming to buy the rest of the content (which involves skipping story segments to get access to the related farms).

 

Neither one appeals these new players.

 

My suggestion to ANet is to just make LS2 free with the purchase of Hot, that way new players won't bump into this until they are done with Hot, and by then they should have access to enough farms and be savvy enough to farm the required gold to move forward.

[Emprer.7256]

> @"perilisk.1874" said:

> They get the same gold salary as everyone else playing the game.

 

I just read you reply and am not sure why I was quoted. Are you in agreement with what I'm saying or not? My post was disagreeing with the reasons OP used to construct his/her argument about how there's potentially a market for people who live in places where $50 is 1/3 of their salary. What did you mean by gold salary? I am honestly confused. If you are saying OP can earn gold in game and convert it into gems, we are essentially thinking the same. I suggest that you leave a more elaborate comment in the future and actually read what people are saying.

[Ashen.2907]

> @"MoriMoriMori.5349" said:

> > @"Skotlex.7580" said:

> > But that's the issue: people aren't forced to buy anything to experience the whole story here because it can be acquired in game. But new players don't know that, or they may may not have a means to amass the gold required without being forced to skip the story.

> > For instance, if a new player wants to play LS2 before heading into HOT, that leaves them stuck farming gold in the silverwastes (probably an awful experience for a story minded player). At least with LS3, they can use the HOT metas (like auric basin) to start saving for the next chapters.

>

> That's it. So it **can't be** acquired in game by quite a lot of players, despite many like to claim it can be. And, ironically, those are the players who need it most, as newcomers are more interested in such kind of things in the first place, than salty veterans who are more into PvP and high-lv challenges. And I also dare to say that not even every veteran out there will be able to amass that much gold without turning game into zero-fun grind (which I have no intention to do at any point, personally, for example as any grind kills the game itself, imo).

>

>

 

You get enough gold just from logging in and doing dailies to pay for LS.

[HazyDaisy.4107]

> @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > @"MoriMoriMori.5349" said:

> > > @"Skotlex.7580" said:

> > > But that's the issue: people aren't forced to buy anything to experience the whole story here because it can be acquired in game. But new players don't know that, or they may may not have a means to amass the gold required without being forced to skip the story.

> > > For instance, if a new player wants to play LS2 before heading into HOT, that leaves them stuck farming gold in the silverwastes (probably an awful experience for a story minded player). At least with LS3, they can use the HOT metas (like auric basin) to start saving for the next chapters.

> >

> > That's it. So it **can't be** acquired in game by quite a lot of players, despite many like to claim it can be. And, ironically, those are the players who need it most, as newcomers are more interested in such kind of things in the first place, than salty veterans who are more into PvP and high-lv challenges. And I also dare to say that not even every veteran out there will be able to amass that much gold without turning game into zero-fun grind (which I have no intention to do at any point, personally, for example as any grind kills the game itself, imo).

> >

> >

>

> You get enough gold just from logging in and doing dailies to pay for LS.

 

Not to mention you get 400 free gems plus gold at certain AP milestones and just gold at other milestones, plus the stuff you loot along the way up the AP ladder that can be sold for more funds.

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"MoriMoriMori.5349" said:

> > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > @"MoriMoriMori.5349" said:

> > > That's it. So it **can't be** acquired in game by quite a lot of players, despite many like to claim it can be.

> > This is patently false. It can be acquired in game, but if players would prefer not to grind gold to convert to gems, then Anet has offered the alternative of purchasing gems outright which can then be used to purchase content. Just because certain players do not like a particular avenue does not make it something that "can't be acquired."

>

> You can acquire a personal villa on Bali and a private jet - you just need to try a bit harder. The fact something is theoretically possible is of no use for majority of people for whom this will stay like that - a theory.

 

Your argument is dishonest and not applicable.

 

Acquiring a villa or private jet is actually not possible at almost any salary in any country over the lifespan of one person. If one is to take the salaries of 99% of all employees for example.

 

The simple act of logging in and doing dailies supplies a GW2 account with over 100 gold per month in value (2 gold daily + logging rewards which can be sold etc.) with efficient farms ranging from 15-30 gold per hour.

 

This places living World Episodes at around 2 per month or 1 per approximately 2 hour grind (giving players different methods of acquisition). Significantly lower than a lifetime commitment like a jet or villa and absolutely achievable. Completely unrelated to a player's real life wage or financial ability.

 

Please remain honest in your arguments if you expect others to take you seriously.

[ParanoidKami.2867]

They make Living World a timed exclusive to have you log in. It's a way of bringing back players.

[Squirrel.6318]

I agree it's a stupid, money grab. And the living stories are necessary for the story. I'm missing like episode 3 of the current living season, no way in hell am I going to spend like $10 just for that 1 episode so I skipped it. No idea what the new charr clan is and stuff like that. Oklahoma clan or whatever

 

It's really expensive for a new player too christ. It's like you gotta spend $20 USD which is like $27 CAD or something for canadian players, for one of the living story seasons.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Squirrel.6318" said:

> It's really expensive for a new player too christ. It's like you gotta spend $20 USD which is like $27 CAD or something for canadian players, for one of the living story seasons.

So, less than 2 months of WoW subscription? Yeah, it's soo expensive [/sarcasm].