Returning Players... Looking Grim?

[Gehenna.3625]

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > @"Edward H Angle.1407" said:

> > Looks like a bad time to come back. No one wants to spend hundreds of their hard earned dollars in a game only to see it possible shut down later on

>

> GW2 is a game. It's entertainment. Who spends their hard earned money going to the movies only to complain about it once the movie ends? If people are considering GW2 some kind of financial investment, then I suggest that they consult with a licensed financial analyst and place their money elsewhere.

 

Erm when you go to a movie and you didn't like it, you're going to complain about it afterwards. So I don't really understand your analogy here.

[kharmin.7683]

> @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > @"Edward H Angle.1407" said:

> > > Looks like a bad time to come back. No one wants to spend hundreds of their hard earned dollars in a game only to see it possible shut down later on

> >

> > GW2 is a game. It's entertainment. Who spends their hard earned money going to the movies only to complain about it once the movie ends? If people are considering GW2 some kind of financial investment, then I suggest that they consult with a licensed financial analyst and place their money elsewhere.

>

> Erm when you go to a movie and you didn't like it, you're going to complain about it afterwards. So I don't really understand your analogy here.

 

Has nothing to do with liking it or not. Please don't misread my analogy. The point is once it is over, there is no use complaining about it. Just like people seem to want to complain when GW2 ends. Which it inevitably will.

[Gehenna.3625]

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > > @"Edward H Angle.1407" said:

> > > > Looks like a bad time to come back. No one wants to spend hundreds of their hard earned dollars in a game only to see it possible shut down later on

> > >

> > > GW2 is a game. It's entertainment. Who spends their hard earned money going to the movies only to complain about it once the movie ends? If people are considering GW2 some kind of financial investment, then I suggest that they consult with a licensed financial analyst and place their money elsewhere.

> >

> > Erm when you go to a movie and you didn't like it, you're going to complain about it afterwards. So I don't really understand your analogy here.

>

> Has nothing to do with liking it or not. Please don't misread my analogy. The point is once it is over, there is no use complaining about it. Just like people seem to want to complain when GW2 ends. Which it inevitably will.

This makes zero sense. If I'm misreading your analogy you just didn't establish it very well. Whether or not there's a point in complaining, doesn't change the fact that people will because they felt they didn't get their money's worth.

 

The problem with a game like this is that it comes with horribly overpriced micro-transactions. People may have gotten used to the prices or argue other games are worse blah blah blah. The point remains is that they are overpriced just the same. So when people spend all that money on such items, they want to get their money's worth for it, meaning that if you spend a lot on it and the game shuts down shortly after they will have had less value out of it than if the game would go on for another 5 years.

 

The issue there is that when you buy mtx, you don't actually own them. You only buy the usage of them as long as the game is around or still viable to play. I would be loathe to drop hundreds of dollars or whichever currency on a game only to find out the game is not going to be supported anymore. Now to be clear, I'm NOT saying that's the case here, but I do understand that people do want some assurance of a game's continuity when they come to spending a lot of cash on it.

 

[derd.6413]

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > > @"Edward H Angle.1407" said:

> > > > Looks like a bad time to come back. No one wants to spend hundreds of their hard earned dollars in a game only to see it possible shut down later on

> > >

> > > GW2 is a game. It's entertainment. Who spends their hard earned money going to the movies only to complain about it once the movie ends? If people are considering GW2 some kind of financial investment, then I suggest that they consult with a licensed financial analyst and place their money elsewhere.

> >

> > Erm when you go to a movie and you didn't like it, you're going to complain about it afterwards. So I don't really understand your analogy here.

>

> Has nothing to do with liking it or not. Please don't misread my analogy. The point is once it is over, there is no use complaining about it. Just like people seem to want to complain when GW2 ends. Which it inevitably will.

 

your analogy doesn't really work given that gw2 's financial model would reflect a tv series more then a movie. and even then bad word of mouth can devastate a movies sale after the premiere

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > > > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > > > @"Edward H Angle.1407" said:

> > > > > Looks like a bad time to come back. No one wants to spend hundreds of their hard earned dollars in a game only to see it possible shut down later on

> > > >

> > > > GW2 is a game. It's entertainment. Who spends their hard earned money going to the movies only to complain about it once the movie ends? If people are considering GW2 some kind of financial investment, then I suggest that they consult with a licensed financial analyst and place their money elsewhere.

> > >

> > > Erm when you go to a movie and you didn't like it, you're going to complain about it afterwards. So I don't really understand your analogy here.

> >

> > Has nothing to do with liking it or not. Please don't misread my analogy. The point is once it is over, there is no use complaining about it. Just like people seem to want to complain when GW2 ends. Which it inevitably will.

> This makes zero sense. If I'm misreading your analogy you just didn't establish it very well. Whether or not there's a point in complaining, doesn't change the fact that people will because they felt they didn't get their money's worth.

>

> The problem with a game like this is that it comes with horribly overpriced micro-transactions. People may have gotten used to the prices or argue other games are worse blah blah blah. The point remains is that they are overpriced just the same. So when people spend all that money on such items, they want to get their money's worth for it, meaning that if you spend a lot on it and the game shuts down shortly after they will have had less value out of it than if the game would go on for another 5 years.

>

> The issue there is that when you buy mtx, you don't actually own them. You only buy the usage of them as long as the game is around or still viable to play. I would be loathe to drop hundreds of dollars or whichever currency on a game only to find out the game is not going to be supported anymore. **Now to be clear, I'm NOT saying that's the case here, but I do understand that people do want some assurance of a game's continuity when they come to spending a lot of cash on it.**

>

 

Actually you are, you keep saying things and then put in a last minute:"This is not what I am saying" to try to make yourself unbiased, which you are.

 

If enough players are buying micro-transactions at a given price and continue to do so, then they are not over priced. That is your personal opinion.

 

If people are willing to spend money on a temporary good and continue to do so, then that is their decision and you not agreeing with it is your personal opinion.

 

People can demand all they want. It's up to the studio to decide when and what to announce, especially in a situation where new plans likely aren't even in place. To make any type of assumptions based on the fact that 1 day after such an announcement there is no x year road map is unreasonable. Or reasonable depending on how paranoid one is. Here let me try:"Now I'm not saying this is the case here, but I would absolutely understand when people are unreasonably paranoid about it."

 

EDIT: just to be clear, there is nothing wrong with being biased, but at least owe up to it.

[kharmin.7683]

(sigh)

 

Ok. I will try to be more clear without using analogies.

 

GW2 is a game. It's main purpose is entertainment (if not it's only purpose). Just like many other things in life that people may or may not choose to spend money on for its entertainment value, at the end of things it is still entertainment with no tangible result. There is nothing physical that can be kept as a result of the money spent. There is no return on the investment of cash.

 

As such, there can not be any assurances that the game's entertainment value can be equal to whatever each individual player invests in time and money -- no entertainment avenue of any sort can possibly account for that. If players in GW2 are concerned about getting something out of the game for their money, other than entertainment, then they are deluding themselves.

 

It is up to each, individual player to determine the entertainment value of GW2. Micro-transactions or not, the player needs to be responsible with their own resources (time/money) and determine whether or not the entertainment is worth the investment which will yield no other return. This is why I don't play sub-based games; they are not worth the return for me but apparently many others do get a high enough level of entertainment to keep those games alive.

 

 

[Gehenna.3625]

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > > @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > > > > @"Edward H Angle.1407" said:

> > > > > > Looks like a bad time to come back. No one wants to spend hundreds of their hard earned dollars in a game only to see it possible shut down later on

> > > > >

> > > > > GW2 is a game. It's entertainment. Who spends their hard earned money going to the movies only to complain about it once the movie ends? If people are considering GW2 some kind of financial investment, then I suggest that they consult with a licensed financial analyst and place their money elsewhere.

> > > >

> > > > Erm when you go to a movie and you didn't like it, you're going to complain about it afterwards. So I don't really understand your analogy here.

> > >

> > > Has nothing to do with liking it or not. Please don't misread my analogy. The point is once it is over, there is no use complaining about it. Just like people seem to want to complain when GW2 ends. Which it inevitably will.

> > This makes zero sense. If I'm misreading your analogy you just didn't establish it very well. Whether or not there's a point in complaining, doesn't change the fact that people will because they felt they didn't get their money's worth.

> >

> > The problem with a game like this is that it comes with horribly overpriced micro-transactions. People may have gotten used to the prices or argue other games are worse blah blah blah. The point remains is that they are overpriced just the same. So when people spend all that money on such items, they want to get their money's worth for it, meaning that if you spend a lot on it and the game shuts down shortly after they will have had less value out of it than if the game would go on for another 5 years.

> >

> > The issue there is that when you buy mtx, you don't actually own them. You only buy the usage of them as long as the game is around or still viable to play. I would be loathe to drop hundreds of dollars or whichever currency on a game only to find out the game is not going to be supported anymore. **Now to be clear, I'm NOT saying that's the case here, but I do understand that people do want some assurance of a game's continuity when they come to spending a lot of cash on it.**

> >

>

> Actually you are, you keep saying things and then put in a last minute:"This is not what I am saying" to try to make yourself unbiased, which you are.

That is a false accusation. I'm not saying that the game is at an end or will be soon. I am saying that when people have that fear that this is an understandable reaction with regards to spending money on it.

 

Oh and thanks for saying I'm unbiased, but as a lot of what I say is my opinion I cannot claim being unbiased. I try my best to get as close to it as I can but that doesn't mean it's reasonable to think I actually achieve it.

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > > > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > > > @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > > > > > @"Edward H Angle.1407" said:

> > > > > > > Looks like a bad time to come back. No one wants to spend hundreds of their hard earned dollars in a game only to see it possible shut down later on

> > > > > >

> > > > > > GW2 is a game. It's entertainment. Who spends their hard earned money going to the movies only to complain about it once the movie ends? If people are considering GW2 some kind of financial investment, then I suggest that they consult with a licensed financial analyst and place their money elsewhere.

> > > > >

> > > > > Erm when you go to a movie and you didn't like it, you're going to complain about it afterwards. So I don't really understand your analogy here.

> > > >

> > > > Has nothing to do with liking it or not. Please don't misread my analogy. The point is once it is over, there is no use complaining about it. Just like people seem to want to complain when GW2 ends. Which it inevitably will.

> > > This makes zero sense. If I'm misreading your analogy you just didn't establish it very well. Whether or not there's a point in complaining, doesn't change the fact that people will because they felt they didn't get their money's worth.

> > >

> > > The problem with a game like this is that it comes with horribly overpriced micro-transactions. People may have gotten used to the prices or argue other games are worse blah blah blah. The point remains is that they are overpriced just the same. So when people spend all that money on such items, they want to get their money's worth for it, meaning that if you spend a lot on it and the game shuts down shortly after they will have had less value out of it than if the game would go on for another 5 years.

> > >

> > > The issue there is that when you buy mtx, you don't actually own them. You only buy the usage of them as long as the game is around or still viable to play. I would be loathe to drop hundreds of dollars or whichever currency on a game only to find out the game is not going to be supported anymore. **Now to be clear, I'm NOT saying that's the case here, but I do understand that people do want some assurance of a game's continuity when they come to spending a lot of cash on it.**

> > >

> >

> > Actually you are, you keep saying things and then put in a last minute:"This is not what I am saying" to try to make yourself unbiased, which you are.

> That is a false accusation. I'm not saying that the game is at an end or will be soon. I am saying that when people have that fear that this is an understandable reaction with regards to spending money on it.

>

> Oh and thanks for saying I'm unbiased, but as a lot of what I say is my opinion I cannot claim being unbiased. I try my best to get as close to it as I can but that doesn't mean it's reasonable to think I actually achieve it.

 

Yes, because the small victories one has over someone having a typo in his 4th language is worth gloating over. I'll let you have it, seems it made you happy.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

I don't expect this game to be in danger. The game still makes quite a bit of money, so there is no reason to axe it. Hell, even Guild Wars 1 is still online after all those years end even had quite a bit of updates last year.

 

The outcome may be that development can be slowed a bit with a smaller team, but we'll have to wait for information about this. It may affect the release dates of future expansions and the amount / scale of new content we may get. But I think we can still play GW2 fine in ten years from now. Hopefully with a bunch of expansions.

[Gehenna.3625]

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > > @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > > > > @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > > > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Edward H Angle.1407" said:

> > > > > > > > Looks like a bad time to come back. No one wants to spend hundreds of their hard earned dollars in a game only to see it possible shut down later on

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > GW2 is a game. It's entertainment. Who spends their hard earned money going to the movies only to complain about it once the movie ends? If people are considering GW2 some kind of financial investment, then I suggest that they consult with a licensed financial analyst and place their money elsewhere.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Erm when you go to a movie and you didn't like it, you're going to complain about it afterwards. So I don't really understand your analogy here.

> > > > >

> > > > > Has nothing to do with liking it or not. Please don't misread my analogy. The point is once it is over, there is no use complaining about it. Just like people seem to want to complain when GW2 ends. Which it inevitably will.

> > > > This makes zero sense. If I'm misreading your analogy you just didn't establish it very well. Whether or not there's a point in complaining, doesn't change the fact that people will because they felt they didn't get their money's worth.

> > > >

> > > > The problem with a game like this is that it comes with horribly overpriced micro-transactions. People may have gotten used to the prices or argue other games are worse blah blah blah. The point remains is that they are overpriced just the same. So when people spend all that money on such items, they want to get their money's worth for it, meaning that if you spend a lot on it and the game shuts down shortly after they will have had less value out of it than if the game would go on for another 5 years.

> > > >

> > > > The issue there is that when you buy mtx, you don't actually own them. You only buy the usage of them as long as the game is around or still viable to play. I would be loathe to drop hundreds of dollars or whichever currency on a game only to find out the game is not going to be supported anymore. **Now to be clear, I'm NOT saying that's the case here, but I do understand that people do want some assurance of a game's continuity when they come to spending a lot of cash on it.**

> > > >

> > >

> > > Actually you are, you keep saying things and then put in a last minute:"This is not what I am saying" to try to make yourself unbiased, which you are.

> > That is a false accusation. I'm not saying that the game is at an end or will be soon. I am saying that when people have that fear that this is an understandable reaction with regards to spending money on it.

> >

> > Oh and thanks for saying I'm unbiased, but as a lot of what I say is my opinion I cannot claim being unbiased. I try my best to get as close to it as I can but that doesn't mean it's reasonable to think I actually achieve it.

>

> Yes, because the small victories one has over someone having a typo in his 4th language is worth gloating over. I'll let you have it, seems it made you happy.

 

English is not my first language either and I hardly find your comment sincere when you use it as an opportunity to brag about how many languages you speak. Also a typo is not related to how well you speak or in this case write a language. It could've happened in your primary language as well and it can happen to anyone, myself included. I didn't mind picking up on the irony of you saying the opposite of what you intended that's for sure but I know full well it was a mistake and not what you intended to write. So no need to be so hostile towards me for pointing it out. You would've I'm sure if the roles had been reversed and I wouldn't have blamed you for it.

 

This is not a victory, it was just funny and I pointed it out. That's all. I find it much more concerning that you seem to have a very binary approach to these discussions and seem to see things in terms of winning or losing. I'm definitely much more concerned with your lack of nuance than a simple mistype that could've happened to anyone.

 

[kharmin.7683]

Highly recommend that we stay on topic. :)

[Wukie.1794]

> @"Burate.4219" said:

> Greetings! Quick thought as I read the article about Arena Net's Layoff coming out and with a few negative threads I've seen pop up here and there about GW2 and some of the community within my world, is Guild Wars 2 good for new/returning players? (Question for me personally) Bit of background about me: Purchased the game back in 2013 when I finally came back from Basic Training, loved the game... unfortunately grew apart from it due to various reasons. 6 years later, SOOOOO much has changed/been added, I'm in love with the game again. (Though if im honest, i do feel a bit overwhelmed at times) I figured, if i can knock out the main quests (1/3 so far :D), and the living world scenarios, I can definitely get a better grasp of the game! However, I'm a bit nervous to commit all my time/money to the game if its "dying", as I saw a player & article say.

> Would love to know the communities view, and not a couple articles and players spatting negativity all the time about GW2.

>

> Much love

 

You are going to have people that swear the game is going to be shut down, and you are going to have people that refuse to believe anything is wrong because they love the game and don't want to believe it themselves. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. I tend to see it as not a good thing. With mass layoffs the landscape of the game has to change. They are struggling to release content already (read the quotes from the CEO), so how in the world is a mass layoff going to improve the situation? Also, its NCSoft, ultimately. Anyone who has gamed for a number of years knows you can never trust what they say.

[Zaklex.6308]

Players need to stop being so PARANOID, just play the damned game and don't worry about it!

[Wukie.1794]

> @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> Players need to stop being so PARANOID, just play the damned game and don't worry about it!

 

It's kind of important to get an idea of what's going on with the game. It determines whether I keep spending money in the gem store or not. I won't be spending any more until solid information comes out, not the weird announcement that sounds like they are trying to cover up the severity of the situation. In the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter if the game shuts down tomorrow. I just don't want to spend a lot of money on gems today if it is going to. I will gladly play the game and not worry about it, but it just means they won't be getting any more of my money until I see if they are full of it or not. If NCSoft wasn't involved I probably wouldn't be as cautious.

[Erasculio.2914]

> @"Burate.4219" said:

> Would love to know the communities view, and not a couple articles and players spatting negativity all the time about GW2.

 

Honestly, your best bet would be to wait and see. Probably even ArenaNet doesn't know how many people or who will be laid off. Once we know that, it will be easier to judge whether it was just a matter of letting go people who were just working on small side projects, or if the studio suffered a massive blow.

 

I would suggest not spending money on anything for now (so don't buy gems or inventory slots or any skin), and wait a bit until we have more information. You can just farm gold to buy the gems with anyway.

 

 

[Xecil.2798]

> @"Batel.9206" said:

> It's nothing more than the usual doom and gloom surrounding news of this sort. ArenaNet laying off some staff? O NO THE GAME IS ENDINGGGGGG!!!1! It isn't. ArenaNet just posted an announcement that says, paraphrased, "we hear your concerns; don't worry. This isn't going to affect our game." [Here's the link. ](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/69249/update-from-arenanet "Here's the link. ")

>

> If you're returning, welcome back! :) The game is wonderful - and yes, it can feel rather overwhelming at first, but just take it slowly and easily, and *have fun* playing. You'll get the hang of it! (I can't really offer advice about what's changed or not; I've only been here a year, myself. Still, welcome back and I hope you have fun!)

 

Considering NCSoft has nuked two IPs that had loyal fans, one of which wasn't doing that bad financially, yeah, we have a legitimate reason to be worried.

[Tiviana.2650]

> @"Xecil.2798" said:

> > @"Batel.9206" said:

> > It's nothing more than the usual doom and gloom surrounding news of this sort. ArenaNet laying off some staff? O NO THE GAME IS ENDINGGGGGG!!!1! It isn't. ArenaNet just posted an announcement that says, paraphrased, "we hear your concerns; don't worry. This isn't going to affect our game." [Here's the link. ](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/69249/update-from-arenanet "Here's the link. ")

> >

> > If you're returning, welcome back! :) The game is wonderful - and yes, it can feel rather overwhelming at first, but just take it slowly and easily, and *have fun* playing. You'll get the hang of it! (I can't really offer advice about what's changed or not; I've only been here a year, myself. Still, welcome back and I hope you have fun!)

>

> Considering NCSoft has nuked two IPs that had loyal fans, one of which wasn't doing that bad financially, yeah, we have a legitimate reason to be worried.

 

I agree be concerned but dont freak out. Im not a fan of companies that manhandle smaller subsidiaries , there is always the threat of them culling smaller ips that they dont deem profitable enough. We just have to hope that they see how many people love gw2 and leave it alone.

[Magnus Godrik.5841]

I will say forget the whole layoff thing. We are 2 expacs in an i suggest you get them both. Community is very helpful and for you coming back, there is so much to do.

[PookieDaWombat.6209]

Welcome back. As someone who is pretty well known for being very critical of things that Anet has/will do, on the whole this is still a solid game and community with a TON of things to do in game both solo and with others. Its still legit one of the best games/MMOs out there and there are lots of things that are better/streamlined than they had been back in 2013. All in all its been a net gain on enjoyment of the game and plenty of people taking part that you shouldn't want for any interactions in game as well.

[Burate.4219]

Much love for all the input. I've purchased both expacs and even the living worlds :D Looking forward to seeing Tyria in all its glory!

[Zaklex.6308]

> @"Wukie.1794" said:

> > @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> > Players need to stop being so PARANOID, just play the damned game and don't worry about it!

>

> It's kind of important to get an idea of what's going on with the game. It determines whether I keep spending money in the gem store or not. I won't be spending any more until solid information comes out, not the weird announcement that sounds like they are trying to cover up the severity of the situation. In the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter if the game shuts down tomorrow. I just don't want to spend a lot of money on gems today if it is going to. I will gladly play the game and not worry about it, but it just means they won't be getting any more of my money until I see if they are full of it or not. If NCSoft wasn't involved I probably wouldn't be as cautious.

 

With as many side projects as ArenaNet was working on, on highly doubt the layoffs are affecting GW2, it's the only thing they actually produce and it still makes money. It's all those people working on the side projects that are being let go, which will reduce the drain on the income(which by the way was approximately $12,500 per employee per month in the last quarter, and that includes all 400 employees, so it was actually higher than that for the GW2 staff).

[Blude.6812]

READ the 1st paragraph!!!!!!! and relax https://www.pcgamer.com/guild-wars-studio-arenanet-will-reportedly-undergo-layoffs/?fbclid=IwAR1ExDFuZcbMQvkpJm-YfWLxJmknD9OPVoHQRIlg4pc401unjOm5e348DKs&utm_campaign=buffer_pcgamerfb&utm_content=bufferdfbc9&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook

[Sylvyn.4750]

Was thinking about returning myself soon, but the financials don't look good...GW2 sales are down 55% from 4Q 2017 to 4Q 2018: [http://global.ncsoft.com/global/ir/earnings.aspx](http://global.ncsoft.com/global/ir/earnings.aspx "http://global.ncsoft.com/global/ir/earnings.aspx")

[Rogalicus.7465]

> @"Sylvyn.4750" said:

> Was thinking about returning myself soon, but the financials don't look good...GW2 sales are down 55% from 4Q 2017 to 4Q 2018: [http://global.ncsoft.com/global/ir/earnings.aspx](http://global.ncsoft.com/global/ir/earnings.aspx "http://global.ncsoft.com/global/ir/earnings.aspx")

 

You do realise that Q4 2017 was when Path of Fire launched, right?

[Goettel.4389]

Something tells me GW2 isn't going anywhere, even if it isn't the most profitable game in the world. There's so many gem skinned players around, I'm guessing it'll be whaling for years to come. Just go play and enjoy. Your money isn't wasted if you get your time's worth. It's all make-belief anyway :-)