Please make PoF HPs elites instead of veterans?

[ugrakarma.9416]

> @OriOri.8724 said:

> Show me where Anet promised that all HPs will always be soloable then.

 

they didnt promised, but PoF is clearly focused on repair HoT mistakes.

[TEKnowledgy.1760]

This is probably only thing i disliked about HoT was champ hp points. While not all was, atleast half are. As for DS most was behind the meta wall. (didn't mind it to much but if one cant land a squad doing the meta its impossible to complete the map).

I'm not even in PoF yet, but I can still respect a vet HP. (even elite in my opinion would be fine)

 

I'm like "MMAI.5892" having champ hp points really messes with people that like to go about things at their own pace, to complete maps without having to hassle for LFG ad or get lucky and catch 3+ people doing a champ HP. Otherwise I don't mind them, but makes one feel a bit held back.

Hell, I could even handle elites for HP in HoT wouldn't minded it, but the champ thing is a bit bottle necking on the solo minded people, like myself and/or others that prefer to do things at their own pace. Without being forced to play at other peoples pace (HP trains for instance).

 

If this was a poll, i say keep'em vets. I'm not one to shy away from hard content, but at the same time I understand perspective of others that just want to get certain things done at there own pace and or feel like they are being held back, because of a champ or meta wall..

[Crinn.7864]

I'm with the OP. Right now the HP mobs are often easier than the ambient mobs in a lot of cases.

 

The first HP mob I encountered was that Djinn thing in the first zone. I summoned it, pressed random damage buttons and it fell over dead. I remember thing something along the lines of "that's it?"

 

If they must be veterans, at least make them hit hard.

 

> @ugrakarma.9416 said:

> > @OriOri.8724 said:

> > Show me where Anet promised that all HPs will always be soloable then.

>

> they didnt promised, but PoF is clearly focused on repair HoT mistakes.

 

No PoF is just a return to core tyria. The hearts are the same, the difficulty is the same, the events are the same, the only difference is we have mounts now.

[Ohoni.6057]

> @joneirikb.7506 said:

>Even if I agreed with that, there are plenty enough of Hero Challenges in the game that this isn't an issue.

 

No, there are never plenty of HPs. Next. . .

 

>All I am saying is that there is space for both camps, without locking one or the other out.

 

No, there is no need for both camps. All the HPs are for all the players, The "camp" that wants tougher enemies can have tougher enemies that aren't HPs. There is no need whatsoever for tougher enemies that "must" be HPs.

 

>Wow, talk about negotiations breakdown.

 

The confusion was in thinking that a negotiation was taking place.

 

>And Elite Spez is Character Progress, so shouldn't you have to work a little bit for it ?

 

But Champ mobs are not "working for it." If you have a large group of people they are relatively easy. If you solo them, most builds cannot handle many types of Champs. No fixed level of actual player challenge can be guaranteed for all players at all times. Besides, as you pointed out, players might have other options to avoid these, so even if they went in players wouldn't "have to work for it" if they really didn't want to. So again, what's the point in making the whole process less convenient?

 

>If we continue down this path, someone is going to demand that every Hero Challenge should be a "channel", so they doesn't have to fight or do anything at all to get their Elite Spez.

 

That'd be nice. The fewer barriers between getting my alts capable in their new elite specs, the better. I think the post-HoT progression system was a bit off from the start, players just want to jump in and be able to try out the new specs, not be left with an incomplete class for half the expansion's content while they're trying to get the class together. The PoF specs are a bit better designed than the HoT ones in this regard, since they unlock at least one linear trait line before anything else, but if that's not the trait line you wanted it's no real benefit. What they need to do is move back to something their original trait unlocking system, where you could manually unlock EACH trait that you wanted, not in any fixed order. That way you could pick and choose the exact traits and utilities that _you_ feel are impoartant to _your_ build as soon as possible, and then, once your build is secured and playable, you can take your time unlocking the rest of the spec.

 

>PS Looking at the numbers of Hero Challenges in POF, I'd say make 4 (40 hp) of them into elites/champions, that way you still have 250 you can get by other means + veterans. Enough for Elite Spez, but you might have to look a bit more.

 

Or, and I'm just throwing this out there, make zero of them elites/champs, and players who want to fight elite/champ mobs can just fight any of the hundreds of other elite/champs that exist in the game. Maybe try the bounty system?

 

 

[Zedek.8932]

Excelsior.

 

I really dislike that idea. For someone playing alone that's already a horrible enough task to get it done (yesterday I was lucky that a bunch of Charr appeared like the cat gang in front of my house in the morning so I did get 30 hero points), but I also have a problem with the immersion part of it. Why is it so important for me to fire a few bullets into a "champion", "veteran" etc. enemy that I suddenly can select a new option in the build menu. I'd rather like to see some sort of drive-by levelling like in GTA: San Andreas, where you gained training of certain things by simply doing it. Why would I not be able to e.g. 7 deadeye marks until I killed some random guy and earning the hero points? What is so heroic about that? And why is it that, when I am e.g. dealing damage with my daggers, that I suddenly can get better with the rifle or pistols?

 

I know I derailed somewhat, but it's just dull and stupid enough already. The mastery system is great and I like it, it has a steep curve but at least grants you basic things. The hero points are totally All-Or-Nothing setup. But as someone mentioned, you get so many ambient veterans already running around, sometimes I just can shadow step trough the environment because of my paper maché raptor taking 2 hits and suddenly I am surrounded by 4 veterans because no-one bothered to kill them so they could pile up. In that broken pyramid thingy I tried for like 1 hour to get to places but I was constantly interrupted, let alone the fight for the HP itself (that never took place because I gave up). The only thing I want is to get my build done so I can fight. Right now, I feel it's a big chicken-and-egg-problem: It's harder to fight to get the hero points because I don't have the elite specs unlocked yet.

 

Right now, the hero points are already "Zerg or GTFO" in many scenarios, and as said in the paragraph above, it does not make any sense to me why my Asura would have to do that at all to get "heroic" and "stronger". I'd rather have some sort of mastery sytem tied to the EXP, so shooting easy enemy does not really work - and a certain point you mastered your skill and can use it forever. Not just seeking an icon on the map and zerg it down with 48 people.

 

 

 

[mnpksage.4290]

If there are no trash mobs to aggro near them, sure, I don't mind elites. Otherwise, veterans are plenty when you're also fighting 3 hydras and 6 scarabs.

[Hyper Cutter.9376]

Making the PoF HPs regular veterans is one of the best things Anet did in PoF, especially from a map completion standpoint.

 

Literally every single one of my level 80 characters (and I have _34_) has full central Tyrian map completion, while I've only map completed HoT _twice_, and the HPs are pretty much the entire reason why.

[Xbon.9086]

The vets are fine, not everyone plays super optimal builds set for le uber end game, the vets are a good level of challenge, while still being soloable when nobody else is around.

[Ellisande.5218]

Michael Scott: [screaming] NOO GOD! NO. GOD. PLEASE. NO. NO!!! NO!!! NOOOOOO!!!

 

If you want to chew glass go solo the Heart of Thorns HPs.

 

Stop trying to ruin my fun.

 

What you should be asking for is a difficulty slider that changes the stats of your personal character. On the hardest difficulty your character only has 1 hp and only does 1 damage. Have fun.

[joneirikb.7506]

> @MMAI.5892 said:

> @joneirikb.7506

>

> HPs are also needed for map completion which is one reason, for me, that I don't want to see them made harder. If there is a market for solo-able, single encounter content, that current events (Champion spawns) and bounties don't fill, then I think a better route would be to deepen the bounty system with creatures that are soloable for high end players. This allows people who really don't care about upping their challenge game to still get map completion and elite specs while providing a venue for those who want more challenging encounters in open world content. Plus I think it could give the bounty system more depth and replayability.

 

That is a very good point. And the only counter argument I can come up with is that; I'd expect many of the same people that wants HC easier, would also complain that they couldn't do these solo-challenges, so they had to be nerfed/made easier.

 

But +1 to that post.

 

---

 

> @Ohoni.6057 said:

> > @joneirikb.7506 said:

> >Even if I agreed with that, there are plenty enough of Hero Challenges in the game that this isn't an issue.

>

> No, there are never plenty of HPs. Next. . .

>

 

You need 500 HP for unlocking all Elite Spez, there are 904 HP available from HC in the entire game/world. That is 404 spare. That is plenty.

 

> >All I am saying is that there is space for both camps, without locking one or the other out.

>

> No, there is no need for both camps. All the HPs are for all the players, The "camp" that wants tougher enemies can have tougher enemies that aren't HPs. There is no need whatsoever for tougher enemies that "must" be HPs.

>

> >Wow, talk about negotiations breakdown.

>

 

So in short, you're not interested in discussing, not interested in listening to other peoples thoughts or opinions. Then I have no reason to bother listening to yours either, consider yourself ignored.

 

> The confusion was in thinking that a negotiation was taking place.

>

> >And Elite Spez is Character Progress, so shouldn't you have to work a little bit for it ?

>

> But Champ mobs are not "working for it." If you have a large group of people they are relatively easy. If you solo them, most builds cannot handle many types of Champs. No fixed level of actual player challenge can be guaranteed for all players at all times. Besides, as you pointed out, players might have other options to avoid these, so even if they went in players wouldn't "have to work for it" if they really didn't want to. So again, what's the point in making the whole process less convenient?

>

 

GW2 is also an MMO game, and one of ANet's core tenets of the game, that people should want to play together. So if *1* HC on each map was an Elite or even a Champion, it would make people have to play together for that one HC, while still being able to complete all the other HC's solo (and thus have enough HP for the Elite Spez).

 

The motivation can be map completion, gamer ocd to complete everything, the joy of the fight, the fun of play together with others, etc. That is up to each individual.

 

> >If we continue down this path, someone is going to demand that every Hero Challenge should be a "channel", so they doesn't have to fight or do anything at all to get their Elite Spez.

>

> That'd be nice. The fewer barriers between getting my alts capable in their new elite specs, the better. I think the post-HoT progression system was a bit off from the start, players just want to jump in and be able to try out the new specs, not be left with an incomplete class for half the expansion's content while they're trying to get the class together. The PoF specs are a bit better designed than the HoT ones in this regard, since they unlock at least one linear trait line before anything else, but if that's not the trait line you wanted it's no real benefit. What they need to do is move back to something their original trait unlocking system, where you could manually unlock EACH trait that you wanted, not in any fixed order. That way you could pick and choose the exact traits and utilities that _you_ feel are impoartant to _your_ build as soon as possible, and then, once your build is secured and playable, you can take your time unlocking the rest of the spec.

>

 

*sigh* cheapen the one progress level that feels worthwhile in this game.

 

> >PS Looking at the numbers of Hero Challenges in POF, I'd say make 4 (40 hp) of them into elites/champions, that way you still have 250 you can get by other means + veterans. Enough for Elite Spez, but you might have to look a bit more.

>

> Or, and I'm just throwing this out there, make zero of them elites/champs, and players who want to fight elite/champ mobs can just fight any of the hundreds of other elite/champs that exist in the game. Maybe try the bounty system?

>

 

I wouldn't mind this, if there was some valid options for challenging solo content. I can run around and find random stuff to fight, but a lot of players prefers to have something that gives them some sort of progress (rewards, heropoints, masteries, achivements, whatever), and just running around beating random mobs generally doesn't do that (Personally I'm fine with that, but I don't expect others to be). And how long would it take for people to cry that the "Challenging Solo content" be nerfed because they can't solo it on every alt in white gera without dying ?

 

---

 

> @Ohoni.6057 said:

> > @Nash.2681 said:

> > It might be just me, but all this "PoF story is too hard", "no, plz don't make this totally brainless easy-peazy fights any harder or I can't do it" threads lately give me the impression, that the average skill level of GW2 players just reached a new all-time-low.

>

> No, it's always been like that, you just haven't noticed, apparently. This has NEVER been a game for players looking for hardcore challenge, it's always been a game dominated by players that enjoy casual combat, engaging without being too punishing. It was only HoT that was poorly designed to fit this audience.

>

 

Actually, the majority of GW1 players moving over was closer to the "hardcore" type, it was very PVP focused, and even the PVE difficulty was something else entirely. And this game has been made from the start with a very good active action combat system, designed for PVP in the same way as GW1 was. This is actually a game that is designed so difficulty should be overcome by mastering the controls/combat/build.

 

Unfortunately they caved in during Beta, and made the ENTIRE tyria way too easy, instead of having progressive difficulty with the map levels. Resulting in Orr at launch becoming a killing ground, because no one had learned to play by the time they got there. So they nerfed Orr as well, which just meant people got slaughtered when they got to the next area before it got nerfed etc.

 

Many people look to the "no grinding" Anet tenet as one of the things that promote the "casual" player-base, but in fact, that too is made around the whole PVP aspect, because they didn't want PVP to be grindy, you shouldn't have to grind gear just to be able to play PVP, nor to alter builds for PVP etc. This is a continuation of GW1 designs, where you could make own PVP characters that was max level, with everything you had on your account unlocked, and top gear etc.

 

If anything, the Expansionpacks (both) shows that if ANet desided to make a PVE only game from the get go, we would likely have tonns of grinding!

[Despond.2174]

No thanks. And for anyone without half decent gear, many of these vets are challenging, especially ones that are always near vet hydras. I remember struggling on some HPs with good builds/gear, it's just the right difficulty for soloing without having to rely on a group.

[Mea.5491]

> @otto.5684 said:

> TBH, I would like champions, similar to HoT

 

I agree. I enjoy HoT HP runs with random people, that's how I made most of my friends in this game and it can be done in an hour, I don't understand all the whining. GW2 is supposed to be a massively multiplayer game, not a single player borefest.

[Rauderi.8706]

:-1:

Many of the current HPs are a decent balance. As enemies start to creep into Elite or Champion, their damage reaches unacceptable levels for solo play, and their HP bars are way too big. An appropriate challenge is _either_:

•high performance (avoiding high damage, etc) for a shorter time (lower HP)

_or_

•moderate challenge (countered by defense and sustain) for a longer period (invulnerability periods, enemy healing, higher HP).

 

From what I've seen of PoF HPs, they tilt toward the latter, and that's okay.

[mulzi.8273]

If you special cupcakes want more of a challenge, go solo one of the champ bounties. I'm sure your eliteness will carry you through _that_ challenge and make it fun for you.

[Offair.2563]

Take off your gears and trinkets to make them harder. This way people who dont mind whacking a vet for points won't be punished by your proposal and you get a longer fight.

 

Win/win.

[Lambros Augustus.6594]

Think there should be new thread that says please get rid of elites from game, they never seem to drop anything and would prefer champ over elite for the treasure box as for hp vet is fine as I feel my toon is a bit underpowered with 20 mobs magnetized to my mount.

[MMAI.5892]

> @joneirikb.7506 said:

> > @MMAI.5892 said:

> > @joneirikb.7506

> >

> > HPs are also needed for map completion which is one reason, for me, that I don't want to see them made harder. If there is a market for solo-able, single encounter content, that current events (Champion spawns) and bounties don't fill, then I think a better route would be to deepen the bounty system with creatures that are soloable for high end players. This allows people who really don't care about upping their challenge game to still get map completion and elite specs while providing a venue for those who want more challenging encounters in open world content. Plus I think it could give the bounty system more depth and replayability.

>

> That is a very good point. And the only counter argument I can come up with is that; I'd expect many of the same people that wants HC easier, would also complain that they couldn't do these solo-challenges, so they had to be nerfed/made easier.

>

> But +1 to that post.

 

Thank you! And yeah, you're always going to have people wanting things easier just like you're always going to have people wanting things harder. But in regards to map completion, up until HoT it was relatively easy to get (Dry Top changed that up a little, but not impossibly, IMO). Since map completion tends to be tied to things like collections for specialization, maxing out specs, legendaries, general map completion rewards, annnnnnnnnnd I think that's about it? I could be missing something there. I'd hate to see the skill bar set too high for someone who just wants to roll through a map, tag all the points they need and be done with it.

 

I think the solo challenges could be either? What I mean is (should it be a bounty system thing) the current bounties seem like they'd be hard if not impossible to do solo because of some of the unstable magic abilities some of the mobs get [insert countdown here to a youtube video proving me wrong]. So, you could have some bounties that use ones that are manageable (though hard) for one player but other players could still do in groups if they chose. Maybe a title or some other reward for those with the fortitude to do them alone!

 

 

[Killerbot.8645]

thank you but no, requiring a group for nearly all HPs in HoT was horrible.

[holodoc.5748]

Add four different difficulty options to choose from during HP activation, each with different awards of course:

- "Can I play, Daddy?", spawns a veteran, rewards 10 milling stones

- "Don't hurt me.", spawns a champ, rewards 100 gold ore

- "Bring 'em on!", spawns an elite, rewards 1000 barbed thorns

- "I am Death incarnate!", spawns a legendary, rewards 10 of whatever "psychoactive substance" the choya are using

[Ayumi Spender.1082]

No because I do enjoy being able to solo hero points again and play at my pace and not have to hope "Anyone on the map want to help with..." or deal with hoping on an HP train for PoF.

 

I don't see the fun/challenge in those stupid Golems in HoT. Just feels cheap and unfair.

Quite a few in PoF are already challenging even as veterans alone due to some of their attacks and quite a bit of aggro around. I say PoF did it right. To hell with HoT's set up.

[Ahlen.7591]

> @Lunarlife.5128 said:

> > @castlemanic.3198 said:

> > NO PLEASE DEAR GOD NO.

> >

> > Veterans are perfect right now for hero point balance and should remain this way, because to some, elite mobs are too punishing.

>

> This. Not all classes can solo elites.

 

ALL classes can solo elites.

 

Not all players can perhaps, but all classes absolutely can.

[Endless Soul.5178]

> @holodoc.5748 said:

> Add four different difficulty options to choose from during HP activation, each with different awards of course:

> - "Can I play, Daddy?", spawns a veteran, rewards 10 milling stones

> - "Don't hurt me.", spawns a champ, rewards 100 gold ore

> - "Bring 'em on!", spawns and elite, rewards 1000 barbed thorns

> - "I am Death incarnate!", spawns a legendary, rewards 10 of whatever "psychoactive substance" the choya are using

 

I got a chuckle from the Wolfenstein references. :)

[MMAI.5892]

> @holodoc.5748 said:

> Add four different difficulty options to choose from during HP activation, each with different awards of course:

> - "Can I play, Daddy?", spawns a veteran, rewards 10 milling stones

> - "Don't hurt me.", spawns a champ, rewards 100 gold ore

> - "Bring 'em on!", spawns an elite, rewards 1000 barbed thorns

> - "I am Death incarnate!", spawns a legendary, rewards 10 of whatever "psychoactive substance" the choya are using

 

clearly the rewards should be

2500 Bloodstone dust

2500 Dragonite Ore

2500 Emperyal Fragments

and

RNG to get 5 gossamer scraps (45%) 5mithril ore (45%) 1 thick leather section (9.99999%) or 1 random lodestone (0.00001%) :)

[tenryuta.2014]

> @Khisanth.2948 said:

> Eh ... was doing a HP then two sand lions decide to join in then a hydra. Bounty can also spawn nearby. Pretty ambivalent about it though. Already gone through PoF once and I have no desire to go through it again unlike core and HoT. Something just seems to be off about PoF.

 

weapons dont look as good as aurics and

blah blah blah, the story is whack half way in or sooner, blah blah blah[end spoiler](what a coincidence that happened, right?)

 

and im still waiting for hot HPs to have vets so i can actually make a t2 legendary-_-(i need wvw heroics to bypass this bullshit)

[Ellisande.5218]

> @Mea.5491 said:

> > @otto.5684 said:

> > TBH, I would like champions, similar to HoT

>

> I agree. I enjoy HoT HP runs with random people, that's how I made most of my friends in this game and it can be done in an hour, I don't understand all the whining. GW2 is supposed to be a massively multiplayer game, not a single player borefest.

 

I did those because I had to in order to get the HPs. I hated every second of it.