WvW needs an amlet system!

[Spartacus.3192]

The crappiest part of Spvp is the amulet system and you want to bring it to WvW? No thanks x1 million.

[Inoki.6048]

I too thought about this for a long time and I think this could prove to be beneficial, with tweaks. I think an Amulet system could be the direction to to foster a healthier WvW environment, although we know toxicity and elitism are hard to combat, as competition brings out the worst in people.

 

Allowing to equip what is needed could help eliminate class discrimination, as gearing up would be as simple as making a toon, leveling it to 80 with tomes, and selecting an amulet with runes and sigils as in PvP.

 

I like this idea a lot.

 

Same would apply as in PvP - no foods, which we know raise stats to extreme values in most cases, or elevate the broken state of some classes, just look at endurance food.

[Eleazar.9478]

> @"Spartacus.3192" said:

> The crappiest part of Spvp is the amulet system and you want to bring it to WvW? No thanks x1 million.

 

Why is it bad? I've said numerous times wvw could have it's own specific stats and the fights in spvp are light years better

[Eleazar.9478]

> @"OscLin.7253" said:

> No. A damage nerf across the board is more needed. Creating builds and comps is a huge part of the game for people more into the game mode. An amulet system would destroy wvw and is just an insult to all those who theorycraft builds and groupcomps. OP should maybe try and get good instead. If something kills you over and over the info is there to analyse what is killing you. Use that and adapt. If you die to better players, no shame, train more.

 

1) if wvw has it's own stats and runes theory crafting would be fine, especially since wvw revolves around fights not points

 

2) the traits and such would still be there thus those builds would be fine

 

3) while I would agree with you for a stat Nerf a flat damage Nerf only would bother me because then you would just get a sustain heavy meta (wouldn't mind a melee train again but small fights would suck)

[Eleazar.9478]

> @"Straegen.2938" said:

> sPvP was built so that all classes can compete on an even footing in a relatively small arena. Amulets do two things, simplify the parity between classes and make it so that competitive players didn't have to gear grind.

>

> WvW is designed as an end game option for PvE players. Take the gear out of WvW, players would riot and it would drive a substantial portion of the players out while attracting virtually nobody to replace them.

 

I see your point but my problem is the game is 6 years old and the endgame gear platues thus making it only a grind for new players. It's a grind to equality? That doesn't sound fun.

[Eleazar.9478]

> @"ArchonWing.9480" said:

> The other thing is that nobody dies because they didn't have ascended armor. If you run into 20 AOEs you are going to die all the same. If you think you are dying because of that, then you are simply not very good at gw2 (not just wvw), especially since new players that buy PoF already get exotics. And yes, there are certain builds out there that can one shot you more or less, but if this is a common event, then again, this is a player issue that no amount of balance can save. And don't say "well, hurr, I am PvP expert", because this is the same thing as joining a fractal, dying in the first few seconds, and then saying this shouldn't happen because you are pro wvw player (lol, pro anything in this game....)

>

> It also doesn't help that the difference between full ascended and full ascended with exotic armor is probably less than 10%. If you can't get ascended trinkets, well, I don't know what to say.

>

> The perceived balance issues come down to how classes scale en masse and more of a factor of how skills compound each other. Changing into an amulet system would not remove perma-stelath, nor would rangers suddenly be welcome in zergs. My much more practical solution of normalizing certain stats when they come into wvw, would solve most problems anyways, I think.

>

> But what I'm really saying is that this issue is much like a snowball in hell.

 

I would totally support that idea I was just thinking a catch all to help newer blood get into wvw

[Eleazar.9478]

> @"biczkowski.2961" said:

> No. Amulet is e-sport PvP clutch for MMORPGs. WoW did the same. They introduced stat templates to their Battle Grounds. With the results of record low player participation so they reverted this change just after one expansion. Only place that has still stat templates is WoW's failed attempt at e-sport arena.

>

> Turns out people like gear in gear-centric games like MMORPGs and if they prefer pure skill based games with proper e-sport modes they don't play MMORPGs in the first place.

>

 

Sure than why don't they go all in I think the half-butting kills the game mode

[Eleazar.9478]

> @"joneirikb.7506" said:

> Just something that irks me:

>

> When people say that the PVE/WVW stat system gives more creativity/choices etc.

>

> (ascended berserker used as example)

> weapon 251, 179, 179

> head 64,45,45

> shoulder 47,34,34

> chest 141,101,101

> hands 47,34,34

> legs 94,67,67

> feet 47,34,34

> amulet 157,108,108

> ring 126,85,85

> ring 126,85,85

> earring 110,74,74

> earring 110,74,74

> back 63,40,40

>

> This isn't creativity, choices, or any real gameplay depth, this is "Spreadsheet the game". Complexity for complexity's sake without adding any actual gameplay depth.

>

> The entire depth of gameplay, builds, and the combat lies in the actual action combat combined with the REST of the build options: Traits, Weapons, Sigils, Runes, Utilities/heal/Elite. To a certain degree Foods, since some of them do give new abilities/options.

>

> As such, I find that the PVP amulet system focuses more on the actual build system, and encourage just as much creativity as the PVE system. With the added "benefit" (from a design and gameplay point of view) of adding inherent weaknesses to builds, as opposed to PVE system where you can build away your weaknesses (bad design).

>

> ---

>

> The way the game is played these days, with multiple damage multiplications and chained invulnerable/evade skills, they could honestly remove ALL STATS from all gear, runes, food etc. And let everyone run around with 1000 base stats. We would honestly notice less difference that most would believe.

>

> (To Be Fair, personally I am more interested in the amulet system for simple convenience, because I'm sick of swapping gear around, and runes etc. Not because I personally think it would solve much for balancing. I think balancing the actual combat would come more from nerfing all the powercreep from expansion with multiple nukes, until we have gameplay like we did before summer2015 patch.)

>

> ---

>

> > Dueling and small gvg aren't quite gone, but they are not as present as before because that stuff DOESN'T BELONG in WVW. You want to duel or GvG, go to the OS arena or the larger area in EotM. Don't take up map space on maps that are (or can be at any second) queued to take or defend WvW objectives. Most duelers and GvG players have been chased out. I know I siege them every chance I get.

>

> Wow, I say, lets delete everything that doesn't belong in zerg !

>

> Let's start with Thief, Ranger, Mesmer, Engineer! Now lets delete all the elite specs we don't need in zergs, so that will leave what? Firebrand, Scourge, Weaver, Herald, and Spellbreaker? Oh and delete all stat sets we don't need in zerg, and runes, and sigils, and foods. Don't let anyone enter wvw if they don't run these stuff!

>

> Because heavens forbid people play what they want in an open sandbox style content, where you're supposed to play as you like, how you want!

>

> Sorry, got a bit frustrated there, just trying to point out how restrictive your comment really was/can be seen. I mean I personally can't stand zergs, that doesn't mean I think zergs have no place in WvW, and I don't try to argue for changes to break up zergs (other than in jest, I'd still love to see friendly fire + body collision as a test week!).

 

Hey man that's some excellent feedback

[Spartacus.3192]

The only way i would vote for an amulet system in WvW is if they would implement what ive been asking for pvp for years and that is a system where we can select 3 sets of stats.

 

Right now we can only select an amulet in pvp which basically sets the stats for every piece of "gear", weapons, armor, trinkets.

I have posted numerous time that pvp should allow you to choose an "amulet" (for lack of a better word) for

 

Weapons

Armor

Trinkets.

 

This way you can have more flexibility. I mean just look at what ANET has done recently,. They have added a lot of runes with +10% max health which significantly helps low base health classes like thief, guardian and ele. Those classes are pigeon holed into using only a very small amount of amulets right now.

 

As an example you could choose

Weapons - (Berserker)

Armor - (Marauder)

Trinkets - (Cavalier)

 

This isnt complicated for newbies to learn and would open up a lot more variety.

 

[Eleazar.9478]

> @"Spartacus.3192" said:

> The only way i would vote for an amulet system in WvW is if they would implement what ive been asking for pvp for years and that is a system where we can select 3 sets of stats.

>

> Right now we can only select an amulet in pvp which basically sets the stats for every piece of "gear", weapons, armor, trinkets.

> I have posted numerous time that pvp should allow you to choose an "amulet" (for lack of a better word) for

>

> Weapons

> Armor

> Trinkets.

>

> This way you can have more flexibility. I mean just look at what ANET has done recently,. They have added a lot of runes with +10% max health which significantly helps low base health classes like thief, guardian and ele. Those classes are pigeon holed into using only a very small amount of amulets right now.

>

> As an example you could choose

> Weapons - (Berserker)

> Armor - (Marauder)

> Trinkets - (Cavalier)

>

> This isnt complicated for newbies to learn and would open up a lot more variety.

>

 

I'd actually be pretty cool with this have a tumbs up

[alain.1659]

Buildcrafting is a big part of the wvw, and it is fun. You can create something unique, craft it to work with the skills and weapons you want. Amulet system would destroy this and force everyone into same builds and weapon sets. Using different parts/stats, interesting combinations is the biggest enjoyment i have from wvw. If you are not creative enough, you fail. If you can create something that you love and works well, you get your reward. Please do not limit the imagination of the players by forcing them into same professions. Current trait system is already limiting with the PoF elites and meta builds. Let us have freedom, freedom to create something as unique as this game allows.

[Eleazar.9478]

> @"alain.1659" said:

> Buildcrafting is a big part of the wvw, and it is fun. You can create something unique, craft it to work with the skills and weapons you want. Amulet system would destroy this and force everyone into same builds and weapon sets. Using different parts/stats, interesting combinations is the biggest enjoyment i have from wvw. If you are not creative enough, you fail. If you can create something that you love and works well, you get your reward. Please do not limit the imagination of the players by forcing them into same professions. Current trait system is already limiting with the PoF elites and meta builds. Let us have freedom, freedom to create something as unique as this game allows.

 

Tell me how so? Having a small stat difference will barely change anything due to the way scaling works.

 

Also once again wvw could have it's own stat sets.

[alain.1659]

Because I sit down and calculate the amount of max hp I need to survive the initial burst of a thief/mes/ranger. Then I calculate the healing power I need to get back to my feet, not to full hp, just enough to start my rotation. Then I need the exact amount of condi to dmg my opponent. Not too much, otherwise he would cleanse it, just barely enough to chain it with my burst to force him into panic. So small amounts matter to me, and to people like me.

I like specific utility sets and traits in my toons. But they are mostly underpowered ones. So I need to adjust my build around those skills/traits to make them work enough. I have a really long and possibly idiotic calculations about them. But they are my calculations and the build is crafted for my gameplay, for me to get comfy with my char. It is not meta-lvl strong. Not even that good. But I make it work. Especially on ele and engi. I like it this way. If you want to use amulet-like stats, you can use it. Current system does not prevent you to do so. But If what you tell us happens, amulet system comes, I will not be able to do what I like. So what we have now enables us, both of us, to play how we want. Forcing others to play how you want is not right. You can do what you want now. Yet yout freedom ends where mine begins.

[Ashtaeroth.3940]

You keep repeating the same thing over and over and over again. You ask how small stat changes can make a difference. You are told how they can make a difference. You ask again how they can make a difference and again being told how. You once again ignore the points given and ask to be explained how. Repeat ad infinitum. And try to shoehorn the amulet stats into it completely ignoring every response given to you. People like min maxing, I most certainly like to tweak my own builds every odd hour trying to figure out where I can squeeze another 100 points or if I should change a trait line to compensate something. That is build diversity I can make almost any kind of build and still be successful depending on what I aim to do with it, this comes from skill not stats.

You are given plenty of constructive responses yet you refuse to accept them and seem to think your way is the only correct way. This is not a discussion anymore when you refuse to look at the faults of your own opinion and give in even a little while others do so.

> @"Eleazar.9478" said:

> I did I gave you plenty you just don't accept them and it's good that you do it's a discussion forum sorry

You said it yourself.

[lodjur.1284]

> @"Eleazar.9478" said:

> 1) GW2 IS not a gear power fantasy, its always been a fashion wars anti grind system, with an amulet system new or pve players could quickly get into the mode and be efficient quickly due to their nature exotics often times are easier just getting ascended first and then transferring stats this probably means a daunting grind for any player looking to get into wvw (at least a week for more hard core players who haven't wvw or are on the newer scale)

 

A week to get ascended for a pve player is a lot, idk how much pve you've done but you get so much ascended that lacking the space for it all is the biggest issue.

 

For actual new players ascended is roughly 500-600g so like 30ish hours of farming or 25ish euros worth of gems, that's reasonable.

 

> 2) stats are way out of wack in wvw currently you can break the dps numbers with any dps class and 1 shot people before they can react or you face un-killable builds, a stat system could reign the outliers and might allow much more enjoyable fights small and big scale

 

Just wrong. First off there's no unkillable builds in WvW and the one closest to unkillable are the mobility builds running zerker/marauder (excluding full troll builds like nomad daredevil) . Secondly the 1 shots are class issues.

 

> 3)but stats and build diversity, surprisingly enough there's actually more build diversity in pvp (if the surprisingly well maintained metabattle is to go off of, which as 2x more builds than wvw)

 

Wrong. There isn't in anything reasonably ranked there's between 6 and 9 builds that anyone actually runs then every 5 games you get someone in your team not running that and lose cause of it. WvW has far more viable builds, they're just not on metabattle (which is generally also outdated)

 

> 4) fights during the night would actually be way more unpredictable with a amulet system if a commander found his comp was weak he/she could then quickly regear the squad for comps and such

 

More ability to mindlessly press the buttons some stranger tells people to, oh joy i can see how new players wouldn't find that awful /sarcasm

 

> 5) this would encourage experimentation, since people and groups could switch on the fly they could then be free to try new combos and such

 

You already can, just try in exotics or actually theorycraft it or pony up for the gear

 

> 6) but min maxing and hybrid.... who says wvw would use the pvp stats and runes wvw could then have its OWN balance this could give the wvw and skills team some ideas to put in maybe even push the mode without breaking others (for example sigil of annulment in pvp is beautiful but its a pvp only sigil)

 

So you want them to make an entire new gear system that's gonna fix no issues cause you don't wanna grind gear?

 

> 7) you cant ask for wvw to be balanced if the stats are out wack

 

The classes are, the stats was there in a completely different and much better meta. Therefore they can't be the cause.

 

> Cons: id imagine it would be very controversial to all of us who have legy armor, weapons and trinkets like crazy, (yes I said us as I have lots too) but I wouldn't be propzing this if the game mode was healthy, imo pvp has better fights just is way less fun since it revolves around point rotation and can be very demoralizing when due to win/loss ect.

 

I have full legendary armor (all weights) and the thought of "losing" that didn't even cross my mind, someone deleting that armor wouldn't make me quit, an amulet system would. PvP fights are the worst ones I've encountered in gw2, incredibly repetitive and player skill matters very little outside of rotations.

[Eleazar.9478]

> @"lodjur.1284" said:

For actual new players ascended is roughly 500-600g so like 30ish hours of farming or 25ish euros worth of gems, that's reasonable.

>

So after almost another games full content or a full time job you can now be equal with other players? That's ridiculous.

 

> Just wrong. First off there's no unkillable builds in WvW and the one closest to unkillable are the mobility builds running zerker/marauder (excluding full troll builds like nomad daredevil) . Secondly the 1 shots are class issues.

>

Ever play apocthory druid? Or Weaver or misntrial firebrand you ain't killing them unless you have a hard counter or greater numbers.

>

> Wrong. There isn't in anything reasonably ranked there's between 6 and 9 builds that anyone actually runs then every 5 games you get someone in your team not running that and lose cause of it. WvW has far more viable builds, they're just not on metabattle (which is generally also outdated)

>

Like what? The only build difference I see has to do with the mechanics of wvw vs PvP (PvP requires you to hold a small area while wvw has big open spaces and larger longer team fights)

 

> More ability to mindlessly press the buttons some stranger tells people to, oh joy i can see how new players wouldn't find that awful /sarcasm

 

Lol what does that even mean it's the same combat system.

>

> You already can, just try in exotics or actually theorycraft it or pony up for the gear

 

You can only get core exotics easily, the good stats you need to grind pve for it, I've actually found it easier to transfer asended or just go legendary than to grind for hours in pve.

 

> So you want them to make an entire new gear system that's gonna fix no issues cause you don't wanna grind gear?

 

As I've said numerous times I have full legendary and 5 legendary weapons and mulitple gear stats so those point is mute since you know unlike a new player I've played since launch in fact read my posts again.

 

And it's not a new system while it would be instensive to add amulet system once it's set up it shouldn't in theory be all that hard to add new stats as well they're just numbers.

 

>

> The classes are, the stats was there in a completely different and much better meta. Therefore they can't be the cause.

 

First off PvP has a reduction in stats, you can't get 3k base power going full zerk you can only heal for so much, it's very hard to get 3k toughens and vit and good healing stats can push things to extreme.

 

> I have full legendary armor (all weights) and the thought of "losing" that didn't even cross my mind, someone deleting that armor wouldn't make me quit, an amulet system would. PvP fights are the worst ones I've encountered in gw2, incredibly repetitive and player skill matters very little outside of rotations.

 

That literally makes no sense, in wvw zerg fights currently come down to listen to your tag and bomb where they tell you to bomb. Hell if you have a good comp you shouldn't even be worrying about healing or taking intitative as staying tight with permanent boons and relying on others to either dps or support or tell you where to position is the name of the game.

 

Roaming and small scale fights are just PvP with open areas and no point rotation focus none of that had to do with amulets

[lodjur.1284]

> @"Eleazar.9478" said:

> > @"lodjur.1284" said:

> For actual new players ascended is roughly 500-600g so like 30ish hours of farming or 25ish euros worth of gems, that's reasonable.

> >

> So after almost another games full content or a full time job you can now be equal with other players? That's ridiculous.

 

You have to actually play the game, the horror

 

> > Just wrong. First off there's no unkillable builds in WvW and the one closest to unkillable are the mobility builds running zerker/marauder (excluding full troll builds like nomad daredevil) . Secondly the 1 shots are class issues.

> >

> Ever play apocthory druid? Or Weaver or misntrial firebrand you ain't killing them unless you have a hard counter or greater numbers.

 

Played with/against all the mentioned, all of those are killable by 1 player (if they actually fight it out), it just takes a while which seems reasonable for a bunker build.

 

> > Wrong. There isn't in anything reasonably ranked there's between 6 and 9 builds that anyone actually runs then every 5 games you get someone in your team not running that and lose cause of it. WvW has far more viable builds, they're just not on metabattle (which is generally also outdated)

> >

> Like what? The only build difference I see has to do with the mechanics of wvw vs PvP (PvP requires you to hold a small area while wvw has big open spaces and larger longer team fights)

 

There you go, you explained the difference, also WvW isn't locked to a terrible amulet system that railroads the players in one of 6-9 viable builds, so there's that too

 

> > More ability to mindlessly press the buttons some stranger tells people to, oh joy i can see how new players wouldn't find that awful /sarcasm

>

> Lol what does that even mean it's the same combat system.

 

If you dont get it, youre never gonna get it

 

> > You already can, just try in exotics or actually theorycraft it or pony up for the gear

>

> You can only get core exotics easily, the good stats you need to grind pve for it, I've actually found it easier to transfer asended or just go legendary than to grind for hours in pve.

 

So you have to play the game a little bit, I can think of worse things

 

> > So you want them to make an entire new gear system that's gonna fix no issues cause you don't wanna grind gear?

>

> As I've said numerous times I have full legendary and 5 legendary weapons and mulitple gear stats so those point is mute since you know unlike a new player I've played since launch in fact read my posts again.

 

You say that, but the point youre trying to make is contradicting it, I call bs

 

Also "Look at me I have played since launch I know things"

 

> And it's not a new system while it would be instensive to add amulet system once it's set up it shouldn't in theory be all that hard to add new stats as well they're just numbers.

 

Still development time that could be used for something that wouldn't make everyone I know instantly quit the game

 

> >

> > The classes are, the stats was there in a completely different and much better meta. Therefore they can't be the cause.

>

> First off PvP has a reduction in stats, you can't get 3k base power going full zerk you can only heal for so much, it's very hard to get 3k toughens and vit and good healing stats can push things to extreme.

 

Yet it still has been super degenerate at times (no idea how it is atm), that should tell you something

 

> > I have full legendary armor (all weights) and the thought of "losing" that didn't even cross my mind, someone deleting that armor wouldn't make me quit, an amulet system would. PvP fights are the worst ones I've encountered in gw2, incredibly repetitive and player skill matters very little outside of rotations.

>

> That literally makes no sense, in wvw zerg fights currently come down to listen to your tag and bomb where they tell you to bomb. Hell if you have a good comp you shouldn't even be worrying about healing or taking intitative as staying tight with permanent boons and relying on others to either dps or support or tell you where to position is the name of the game.

 

I mean PvP fights as in fights in sPvP which you seem to think are so awesome. WvW fights are nice even if zergfights are 111111111111111 spam and brain-off.

 

> Roaming and small scale fights are just PvP with open areas and no point rotation focus none of that had to do with amulets

 

So sPvP without what sPvP is actually about, sPvP isn't about PvP.

[Trinnitty.8256]

Basically you can have a wvw hero panel that has every stat/rune/sigil/food available like we have now in game. Every piece of gear would have selectable stat like legendary has now but special wvw menu. Let players select what they want like that instead of having to go after gear to have perfect meta builds. (I'm almost done with 4th wvw legendary armor set) and I would still be happy if everyone in wvw game mode could have instant access to all stat combos. It doesn't have to be a copy and paste spvp amulet system.

[sephiroth.4217]

One of the main reasons I dont play WvW anymore is due to power creep..

 

So on one hand, it would be nice to normalise stats as best as possible but on the other hand, playing a Condi healing tank spec or instagib power build is always going to net me easy kills with little effort..

 

TLDR: Im good either way.