Eurantien.4632 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 > @"Shadelang.3012" said: > @"Eleazar.9478" it all depends. Its possible though (edited) > > It was mentioned before but people need to realize just how slow the animations on the spirits are. It takes a long time to get them up. Edited (I forgot that their animation time was sped up. So this isn't as big a deal as long as they aren't cc'd the second they arrive.) > > And were forgetting the biggest problem with wvw. The shear amount of AoE and CC spam. Spirits don't get stability. They don't get aegis. They don't get boons from other players unless there are less than 4 players in range. And what they DO get is completely uncontrollable. So heres my thing. Who cares how good the effect is if they don't go off. From what I am reading the only even slightly controllable way to use a spirit is INTENTIONALLY SUICIDE THEM for a natures vengeance proc assuming it still causes them to use their actives when they die. (Edit: Now that I remember that their animation times were sped up this isn't AS BAD. But its still a risk) > > So that would involve you summoning the elite and starting its wind up animation. Or having it PRE SUMMONED and hoping it doesn't get accidentally killed (Because remember they have to be within 600 range of your group to provide the passive buffs now) then when an ally goes down basically running ON TOP OF THE ALLY (Keep in mind the entire enemy team is going to be nuking that ally. And even traited your maximum spirit active range is 360 now) activating the spirit. And HOPING either it gets the cast off and isn't affected by slow, daze, stun, fear, launch, knockback OR it dies immediately and that its death casting animation is somehow fast enough to rez the ally before they pop. (Edit: This is still a risk. We hae more wiggle room than I originally thought, I feel that the elite is worth more consideration but you still need to sacrifice a grandmaster trait for it. But its possible) > > That.... Isn't reliable. Even if they couldn't be affected by enemy player skills they still wouldnt be reliable. Having a melee range aoe immobilize on stone spirit sounds nice right? No. You have to have it precast. AND then summon it. AND get through the animation. All for a short range immobilize that may or may not have any effect depending on if it gets cleansed instantly or they have resistance. (Edit: I don't feel like any of the spirits aside from the elite and MAYBE the heal will be worth using in WvW. The others just don't have affects that are worth counting on or that will have any significant impact on the fight) > > Same issue with frost spirit active... and with storm spirit active...and sun spirit. Even the elite and heal spirits are affected by this. (Edit: The heal and elite spirits are still worth testing though. My biggest concerns with the other spirits is there is too much of a risk of their actives actually doing nothing) > > How can I ask my group to let me take a frontline party spot for something that MIGHT work. (Edit: This is still a concern. Though with the elite acting as a stab source it may be worth looking at in a frontline damage/boon provider build.) > > So the stability sounds nice. But you have to precast it and then get through everything else to get that stab. And if you use it for stab you won't have it available for the rez if you need it. If you try for both its likely to either not work or get you killed even if it does. (Edit: This is still a risk. Alot can go wrong. But if it works you can swing a fight. I wonder if the rezzed ally will get the stab) > > Ill be testing this next Friday probably. Tuesday depends on whats going on that night. But I just don't have much hope because they havn't dealt with any of the core problems the spirits have besides their mobility (At least not according to the patch notes). And THAT came with hard nerfs to their actual usefulness overall with the possible exception of the elite. (Edit: This is still a concern) > > TL;DR. If the active skills are now instant cast. I.E we pop the button and the spirit INSTANTLY uses the ability on us. (NO WINDUP) its possible. But if not I just can't see it being worth taken over something else. And thats IF spirits aren't target-able (And nothing so far says they aren't still target-able.) (Edit: This is still a concern, but slightly mitigated by the above comments) > > Ill be honest. This patch annoys me. Scrapper basically got what we have asked for spirits for an extremely long time for their gyros. (Can't be targeted, follows the scrapper) This patch doesn't feel like a rework. It feels like a nerf for PvE disguised as one. (They require more micro in PvE now that they suicide over time... and last I checked spirits are still not counted as players as far as healing goes so they will be the LAST ones healed. Hope your overhealing your raid alot). (Edit: As someone mentions below the health drain is likely to be easily managed in PvE atleast.) > > Edit: I will say the elite spirit has potential as a stab source. But honestly thats the only one. And it involves giving up a MASSIVE amount of damage for the ranger. > > Edit 2: Would be great if the elite spirit active was an AOE Stunbreak. Could be used in a reactionary way then. (Leave it behind. Get stunned. Pop it for a stunbreak and stab for your party as well as to rez those who go down. Lets you save dolyak for later in the fight when cooldowns start to run out) Remember everyone, the instant-cast activation of spirit actives (what we currently have) is being replaced by a 0.25s cast to teleport the spirit. Then the the spirit must do its own animation 1-1.5s. Providing a lot of time for possible cleave. It is also unclear if the stability on spirit of nature is as the spirit is using its skill or AFTER its done using the skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleazar.9478 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 > @"Eurantien.4632" said: > Remember everyone, the instant-cast activation of spirit actives (what we currently have) is being replaced by a 0.25s cast to teleport the spirit. Then the the spirit must do its own animation 1-1.5s. Providing a lot of time for possible cleave. > > It is also unclear if the stability on spirit of nature is as the spirit is using its skill or AFTER its done using the skill. That's a very good point, crap, if the spirits works like that and are still useless I think I'll be done with gw2 for awhile maybe I'll just play my warrior/engie more (I did love havocing with a scrapper) , I'm pretty tired of current balance, not much room for expermintation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krispera.5087 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Welp, I'm one of those that asked for Spirit changes, but NOT THIS TYPE of change ! It's very bad to keep and nerf the spirit HP and then teleport/active it to you. 100% chance it will die. Completely useless in PvP and WvW, worse in PvE. Why didn't they just made spirits immune ? Their active skills aren't good enough to justify being CC-able with low HP. Now, example, if your Sun Spirit is going to die soon, you Active it, then it dies in melee even before doing it's slow as hell animation. Instead to just make it simplier, they made it overly complicated and at the same time nerfed them. Why were Gyros changes so perfect but Spirits so bad ? Meanwhile, Glyphs on Druid are still useless. Minor buff to Condi Ranger, but it will never good as a Condi Firebrand. Just look at the sheer AoE/Cleaving and BURST burning application from them, it's night and day. Also, **UNSPLIT SPLITBLADE** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderzShadow.2506 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Oh Golly Gee Anet, thank you so much for more spirit changes. It's what I've always wanted @"Krispera.5087" **Thanks a lot!** Why don't spirits actually move or move like they used to. Why don't they do more than the useless $h1te they do already? Spirits suck. No one uses them. They have sucked for quite a long time. I don't understand why this is a focus. There are so many things that could be better for Rangers. Pets could get some love. Different abilities, more reliable staying on target and doing dmg. Druid could use some love. Sword 2, I for one, would like it if much like the thief sword and give more time to use the leap. Sword 2-make it instant. or **also** give it stability+evade frame so I can reliably use it every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Za Shaloc.3908 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 I'm gonna go ahead and add my suggested changes to make glyphs more appealing. In particular I find Glyph of Unity to be an abysmal elite skill and in dire need of attention. Some of the other glyphs have nice potential but could be updated to make them more competitive. Glyph of Rejuvenation: Non-CA: Additionally apply regeneration to self. CA: Additionally apply regeneration to nearby allies (not self). Glyph of Alignment: Now a ground-target AoE. (900 range) Non-CA: Increase power coefficient. Increase poison stacks to 3, up from 2. CA: Removes 3 conditions, up from 2. Glyph of Empowerment: Now instant-cast Non-CA: Now increases damage by 20% for 4 seconds in PvP and WvW only, CA: No changes Glyph of Equality: Non-CA: No changes. CA: No longer removes conditions. Now additionally applies Stability [5x] for 6 seconds to nearby allies. Glyph of Tides: Effects are switched. Radius reduced to 300, down from 360. Now a ground-target AoE (600 range). Glyph of Unity: Non-CA: Additionally, reveals tethered foes for the tether duration. If a tethered foe breaks the leash, they are immobilized and blinded. If the foe remains tethered for the entire duration, they are slowed, weakened, and chilled. Initial skill is blockable, but the other effects are unblockable. CA: Reduce heal ICD to 0.5 seconds. Additionally, if a tethered ally breaks the leash, they are granted resistance and superspeed. If the ally remains tethered for the entire duration, they are healed and have 3 conditions removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lydia.7913 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Every time I look at Spirits, I'm like, "......... eeeeeeeeeeeeehhhh, I'll pass." These changes don't affect this conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quadox.7834 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 > @"EnderzShadow.2506" said: > Oh Golly Gee Anet, thank you so much for more spirit changes. > It's what I've always wanted > > @"Krispera.5087" **Thanks a lot!** > > Why don't spirits actually move or move like they used to. > Why don't they do more than the useless $h1te they do already? > > Spirits suck. No one uses them. > They have sucked for quite a long time. > I don't understand why this is a focus. > > There are so many things that could be better for Rangers. > Pets could get some love. Different abilities, more reliable staying on target and doing dmg. > > Druid could use some love. > > Sword 2, I for one, would like it if much like the thief sword and give more time to use the leap. > > Sword 2-make it instant. > or **also** give it stability+evade frame so I can reliably use it every time. > > > > "Why don't spirits actually move or move like they used to. Why don't they do more than the useless $h1te they do already?" Because spirits were complete cancer in PvP back then. "Spirits suck. No one uses them." Correct me if I'm wrong but i thought spirits were good in certain areas in PvE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anduriell.6280 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 > @"Quadox.7834" said: > "Why don't spirits actually move or move like they used to. Why don't they do more than the useless $h1te they do already?" > Because spirits were complete cancer in PvP back then. nobody was complaining back then about the petting zoo actually. What was annoying was to cast the active when killed, and that was the actual complain which weren't many either. "Why if i killed the spirit i still take damage.." was the common complain. Lets stop with the fallacy. > @"Quadox.7834" said: > "Spirits suck. No one uses them." > Correct me if I'm wrong but i thought spirits were good in certain areas in PvE? They won't anymore be usable in the only area where could be used (raids) anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quadox.7834 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 > @"anduriell.6280" said: > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > "Why don't spirits actually move or move like they used to. Why don't they do more than the useless $h1te they do already?" > > Because spirits were complete cancer in PvP back then. > nobody was complaining back then about the petting zoo actually. What was annoying was to cast the active when killed, and that was the actual complain which weren't many either. "Why if i killed the spirit i still take damage.." was the common complain. > Lets stop with the fallacy. > > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > "Spirits suck. No one uses them." > > Correct me if I'm wrong but i thought spirits were good in certain areas in PvE? > They won't anymore be usable in the only area where could be used (raids) anymore. > No, people complained because it was one of the easiest meta builds Gw2 PvP has ever seen, with skill cap and floor below boonbeast. It's not easy to make "pet builds" like minion necro, turret engi, spirit ranger, viable without being stupid. And this is certainly not a Gw2-exclusive problem. About raids I have no idea. If what you say is true then it is a shame! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eurantien.4632 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > @"EnderzShadow.2506" said: > > Oh Golly Gee Anet, thank you so much for more spirit changes. > > It's what I've always wanted > > > > @"Krispera.5087" **Thanks a lot!** > > > > Why don't spirits actually move or move like they used to. > > Why don't they do more than the useless $h1te they do already? > > > > Spirits suck. No one uses them. > > They have sucked for quite a long time. > > I don't understand why this is a focus. > > > > There are so many things that could be better for Rangers. > > Pets could get some love. Different abilities, more reliable staying on target and doing dmg. > > > > Druid could use some love. > > > > Sword 2, I for one, would like it if much like the thief sword and give more time to use the leap. > > > > Sword 2-make it instant. > > or **also** give it stability+evade frame so I can reliably use it every time. > > > > > > > > > > "Why don't spirits actually move or move like they used to. Why don't they do more than the useless $h1te they do already?" > Because spirits were complete cancer in PvP back then. > > "Spirits suck. No one uses them." > Correct me if I'm wrong but i thought spirits were good in certain areas in PvE? I think spirits were considered broken back then because nobody really knew how to play the game. They had animations, they were easy to dodge, and they died to cleave. Spirit ranger would not be viable now without the old Nature's Vengeance that activated spirits on death because there is way more damage now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderzShadow.2506 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 > @"Eurantien.4632" said: > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > @"EnderzShadow.2506" said: > > > Oh Golly Gee Anet, thank you so much for more spirit changes. > > > It's what I've always wanted > > > > > > @"Krispera.5087" **Thanks a lot!** > > > > > > Why don't spirits actually move or move like they used to. > > > Why don't they do more than the useless $h1te they do already? > > > > > > Spirits suck. No one uses them. > > > They have sucked for quite a long time. > > > I don't understand why this is a focus. > > > > > > There are so many things that could be better for Rangers. > > > Pets could get some love. Different abilities, more reliable staying on target and doing dmg. > > > > > > Druid could use some love. > > > > > > Sword 2, I for one, would like it if much like the thief sword and give more time to use the leap. > > > > > > Sword 2-make it instant. > > > or **also** give it stability+evade frame so I can reliably use it every time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Why don't spirits actually move or move like they used to. Why don't they do more than the useless $h1te they do already?" > > Because spirits were complete cancer in PvP back then. > > > > "Spirits suck. No one uses them." > > Correct me if I'm wrong but i thought spirits were good in certain areas in PvE? > > I think spirits were considered broken back then because nobody really knew how to play the game. They had animations, they were easy to dodge, and they died to cleave. Spirit ranger would not be viable now without the old Nature's Vengeance that activated spirits on death because there is way more damage now. Thank you Eurantein, on point as always. I'ts more of the same from anet. They repeatedly make the same mistakes. They buff things that should be nerfed, They nerf things that should be buffed They ignore Experienced Class mains in many parts of the game and especially in PvP/WvW They work on things, NO ONE cares about. Its just not Rangers, it's this way with every class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quadox.7834 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 > @"Eurantien.4632" said: > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > @"EnderzShadow.2506" said: > > > Oh Golly Gee Anet, thank you so much for more spirit changes. > > > It's what I've always wanted > > > > > > @"Krispera.5087" **Thanks a lot!** > > > > > > Why don't spirits actually move or move like they used to. > > > Why don't they do more than the useless $h1te they do already? > > > > > > Spirits suck. No one uses them. > > > They have sucked for quite a long time. > > > I don't understand why this is a focus. > > > > > > There are so many things that could be better for Rangers. > > > Pets could get some love. Different abilities, more reliable staying on target and doing dmg. > > > > > > Druid could use some love. > > > > > > Sword 2, I for one, would like it if much like the thief sword and give more time to use the leap. > > > > > > Sword 2-make it instant. > > > or **also** give it stability+evade frame so I can reliably use it every time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Why don't spirits actually move or move like they used to. Why don't they do more than the useless $h1te they do already?" > > Because spirits were complete cancer in PvP back then. > > > > "Spirits suck. No one uses them." > > Correct me if I'm wrong but i thought spirits were good in certain areas in PvE? > > I think spirits were considered broken back then because nobody really knew how to play the game. They had animations, they were easy to dodge, and they died to cleave. Spirit ranger would not be viable now without the old Nature's Vengeance that activated spirits on death because there is way more damage now. IIRC they provided passive buffs which were too strong, and this was the problem rather than the actives. I agree they would be bad now due to increased cleave etc. which is part of my point; pet builds are hard to get right both in terms of balance and fun. The same is the case with turret engi (we all remember that time...) and even Mesmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eurantien.4632 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > @"Eurantien.4632" said: > > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > > @"EnderzShadow.2506" said: > > > > Oh Golly Gee Anet, thank you so much for more spirit changes. > > > > It's what I've always wanted > > > > > > > > @"Krispera.5087" **Thanks a lot!** > > > > > > > > Why don't spirits actually move or move like they used to. > > > > Why don't they do more than the useless $h1te they do already? > > > > > > > > Spirits suck. No one uses them. > > > > They have sucked for quite a long time. > > > > I don't understand why this is a focus. > > > > > > > > There are so many things that could be better for Rangers. > > > > Pets could get some love. Different abilities, more reliable staying on target and doing dmg. > > > > > > > > Druid could use some love. > > > > > > > > Sword 2, I for one, would like it if much like the thief sword and give more time to use the leap. > > > > > > > > Sword 2-make it instant. > > > > or **also** give it stability+evade frame so I can reliably use it every time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Why don't spirits actually move or move like they used to. Why don't they do more than the useless $h1te they do already?" > > > Because spirits were complete cancer in PvP back then. > > > > > > "Spirits suck. No one uses them." > > > Correct me if I'm wrong but i thought spirits were good in certain areas in PvE? > > > > I think spirits were considered broken back then because nobody really knew how to play the game. They had animations, they were easy to dodge, and they died to cleave. Spirit ranger would not be viable now without the old Nature's Vengeance that activated spirits on death because there is way more damage now. > > IIRC they provided passive buffs which were too strong, and this was the problem rather than the actives. > > I agree they would be bad now due to increased cleave etc. which is part of my point; pet builds are hard to get right both in terms of balance and fun. The same is the case with turret engi (we all remember that time...) and even Mesmer. The passive buffs were negligible besides for sun spirit and the elite spirit. Sun spirit burn procs were huge as was the healing from nature. The other spirit passives were negligible. The true strength was the fact that the spirit actives covered the point and people did not dodge them. Storm spirit did 3k damage and dazed for 3s then when it died it did it again, not to mention the sun spirit burning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quadox.7834 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 > @"Eurantien.4632" said: > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > @"Eurantien.4632" said: > > > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > > > @"EnderzShadow.2506" said: > > > > > Oh Golly Gee Anet, thank you so much for more spirit changes. > > > > > It's what I've always wanted > > > > > > > > > > @"Krispera.5087" **Thanks a lot!** > > > > > > > > > > Why don't spirits actually move or move like they used to. > > > > > Why don't they do more than the useless $h1te they do already? > > > > > > > > > > Spirits suck. No one uses them. > > > > > They have sucked for quite a long time. > > > > > I don't understand why this is a focus. > > > > > > > > > > There are so many things that could be better for Rangers. > > > > > Pets could get some love. Different abilities, more reliable staying on target and doing dmg. > > > > > > > > > > Druid could use some love. > > > > > > > > > > Sword 2, I for one, would like it if much like the thief sword and give more time to use the leap. > > > > > > > > > > Sword 2-make it instant. > > > > > or **also** give it stability+evade frame so I can reliably use it every time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Why don't spirits actually move or move like they used to. Why don't they do more than the useless $h1te they do already?" > > > > Because spirits were complete cancer in PvP back then. > > > > > > > > "Spirits suck. No one uses them." > > > > Correct me if I'm wrong but i thought spirits were good in certain areas in PvE? > > > > > > I think spirits were considered broken back then because nobody really knew how to play the game. They had animations, they were easy to dodge, and they died to cleave. Spirit ranger would not be viable now without the old Nature's Vengeance that activated spirits on death because there is way more damage now. > > > > IIRC they provided passive buffs which were too strong, and this was the problem rather than the actives. > > > > I agree they would be bad now due to increased cleave etc. which is part of my point; pet builds are hard to get right both in terms of balance and fun. The same is the case with turret engi (we all remember that time...) and even Mesmer. > > The passive buffs were negligible besides for sun spirit and the elite spirit. Sun spirit burn procs were huge as was the healing from nature. The other spirit passives were negligible. The true strength was the fact that the spirit actives covered the point and people did not dodge them. Storm spirit did 3k damage and dazed for 3s then when it died it did it again, not to mention the sun spirit burning. Sun spirit is what i remember to be so annoying. But IIRC the healing per second was also very high (for the times). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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