Update patch = to hell with guardian

[Lucentfir.7430]

I saw that RI nerf coming when it was first introduced. 50% crit was absurdly strong, even for a GM spot but it helped guards stat patch that low base HP pool to comfortable levels. I still think the trait is a lot better than what was in its spot previously. -Cough- Radiant Retaliation-cough-

[Asum.4960]

The issue is less that RI, a Trait that in isolation is way too strong and impactful, was nerfed by 50%, but rather that there was no compensation for it somewhere else to lighten the blow.

Instead there was just another nerf with lesser Smite Conditions. Sure, that also needed tuning down I guess, but outside of nuking people in Gold to maybe Plat 1, the spec was already struggling to compete, especially with how busted Soulbeast etc. is, and still will be.

 

I just don't see a reason to play core Guard over Slb, Holo, Herald and most likely still Mirage etc., especially now, if you care about winning.

 

Soulbeast, which is performing way better than core Guard, especially in Plat+, didn't get anywhere near 50% nerfs on some of their Key Traits or Abilities (except maybe Lesser Muddy Terrain, but the spec is so overloaded it will hardly notice), while also receiving some small buffs to compensate a bit for the minor shaves it got.

 

So I kind of understand how some people mainly playing Core Guard would be upset, even when agreeing with the fact that RI needed to be tuned down a bit.

A 50% nerf is a lot, and with further nerfs in the spec without any compensation, it's going to struggle a lot to stay relevant at higher ranks.

 

Balance is supposed to balance, after all.

[Sorem.9157]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> > > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said:

> > > You (OP) clearly havent played Guardian that much. only 3 nerfs, none of them essential

> >

> > RI change will be massive for PvP...

> >

> >

> >

>

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" confirmed Core Guardian had the second highest win ratio in ranked after Boonbeast. Objectively speaking it needed to be toned down. Old Righteous Instincts was basically 1000 free precision which is nuts when most signets and traits give 180 for any particular stat.

>

> > @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> > > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said:

> > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> > > > > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said:

> > > > > You (OP) clearly havent played Guardian that much. only 3 nerfs, none of them essential

> > > >

> > > > RI change will be massive for PvP...

> > > >

> > >

> > > Its one trait. Use another? It may have been a very good one, but its not like you cant play with a weaker version or a different trait.

> > >

> > > Then again I never relied on a single trait. But maybe thats just me.

> >

> > You can't use Valk ammy without that trait...

> > Core Guard and DH were already under performing in comparison to other specs but now its essentially deleted from PvP..

> >

> > Ontop of that, pretty sure the reason it was nerfed was due to countless threads stating that core guard is "OP", and it is to players below mid gold.

>

> Core guard was nowhere near underperforming. It has the 2nd highest win ratio in ranked after boonbeast. That's a fact. After the nerf Valk Amulet will go from 75% crit chance with fury to 50% which is still great considering the amount of easy sustain core guardian provided as well as how much more power and ferocity and health the has.

 

The fact that a profession has high win-rate means nothing when the majority of the players are in the 1200 rating range. It means it is great for average players and that, perhaps, the skill floor needs to be raised and that is all. You didn't conveniently forget the bell-curve, did you?

 

The "1000 free precision" was never free as it demanded you to choose between running a specialization or a sustain trait line (Honor or Valor), since most of the retaliation is alocated on the Virtues and Zeal (who the fuck picks zeal these days) traitlines and you're forced to run one of those.

 

Even if it were, 1000 free stats isn't much when you realize Guardian is 800 vitality away from having the baseline Warrior/Necromancer HP Pool. Don't come here and tell me that difference in vitality isn't somethign important. People can't and shouldn't use the "free stat" argument that easily, take context into matter and look at the profession as a whole.

 

I'm sure you're smart enough to do that.

[FrizzFreston.5290]

> @"Sorem.9157" said:

> ... look at the profession as a whole.

>

> I'm sure you're smart enough to do that.

 

True, we can't just look at a few nerfs and judge the class just on that, there's more than just nerfs. There's some buffs to signets, staff and torch too. Those are core guard too. Overall core guard got a buff, just not in the area where people wanted them.

[LucianDK.8615]

Would guardians be wanted as DPS now at all? or relegated to support builds.

[Sorem.9157]

> @"FrizzFreston.5290" said:

> > @"Sorem.9157" said:

> > ... look at the profession as a whole.

> >

> > I'm sure you're smart enough to do that.

>

> True, we can't just look at a few nerfs and judge the class just on that, there's more than just nerfs. There's some buffs to signets, staff and torch too. Those are core guard too. Overall core guard got a buff, just not in the area where people wanted them.

 

You also need to look at how practical the nerfs are. Staff trait got a buff but it will not replace Pure of Heart, as both traits are designed for support and Pure of Heart is much much much more effective.

 

Signets as they are today will never be meta for PvP, specially with radiance.

 

Burn Guardian lost burn on block to 20% burn duration, despite the torch buffs, it is a nerf overall.

[otto.5684]

> @"FrizzFreston.5290" said:

> > @"Sorem.9157" said:

> > ... look at the profession as a whole.

> >

> > I'm sure you're smart enough to do that.

>

> True, we can't just look at a few nerfs and judge the class just on that, there's more than just nerfs. There's some buffs to signets, staff and torch too. Those are core guard too. Overall core guard got a buff, just not in the area where people wanted them.

 

Of which none are used in power core or DH builds. Signets are not PvP viable. And burn guardian is not PvP viable even with the buffs, which are significantly minuscule. The patch removes the last PvP viable guardian dps build and does not add anything.