Latest Warclaw update

[cryorion.9532]

Warclaw isn't supposed to be alternative to flame rams, but more like supplementing them. So it seems reasonable that the gate damage is low.

 

Insta-finishing enemies is a bit silly though. It is way too easy to pull off.

As other mentioned, running around with Warclaw is too easy with very little risk. Warclaw should have defiance bar that doesn't dismount when broken, but rather stun mount and not be able to move for XY seconds.

And/or there should be traps that dismount. Those traps could be adequately visible so it is not that easy to get dismounted.

 

Visually, the mount is well done, just like rest of the mounts :)

[Ni In.6578]

> @"Redponey.8352"

> I think, we're loosing our time, none of our revendication and will for content( as a one big WvW community) is heard. This post may have been read by anet (moderator) but not by devs.

 

Raymond is the WvW dev.

 

 

[Joey.2769]

Please remove the ability to stealth on the mount. You can get 15 seconds of stealth easy with the scrapper now. With the speed of the mount you can do it outside of draw distance then move invisible right onto an enemy with no tell. If the SMC cloaking waters was nerfed and you can't be invisible while gliding, why is being on a mount invisible allowed?

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"cryorion.9532" said:

> Warclaw isn't supposed to be alternative to flame rams, but more like supplementing them. So it seems reasonable that the gate damage is low.

But its so low its a complete waste of supply compared to actually building a standard ram. Its like a noobtrap, lol.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

> @"EremiteAngel.9765" said:

> Reduced the maximum number of targets on the warclaw’s Battle Maul skill from 10 to 3. Reduced the damage of Battle Maul by 26% in WvW.

 

Common sense fix and truly needed.

[KrHome.1920]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> Even with only 3 targets, I fear that this skill will keep the mounts as a MAD scenario, ultimately discouraging fights, not encouraging it.

>

> Any group fight players are engaged in - regardless of being full zerg or just a 2v2 - that is fairly balanced with people downing and dying on both sides is totally disrupted by the mere *presence* of anyone on a mount. So people might ask themselves... Why even engage open field? Why not just run into a tower/keep so you can fall back if you see mounts? Its worse for the outnumbered as well and we're only talking tiny advantages that rollercoaster fights. 10v10 guild fight, you trade blows, a *single* enemy on a mount appears... Forget about it. Cant fight because if anyone down - heaven forbid 2 at once - you loose because you wont have time to even try and res with the mount rushing in.

>

> If people thought cries about rallybots and griefing guild fights was bad before, oh man.

>

> It is quite disheartening, but maybe I'm thinking too much about it. Without the downed instakill, it would just be another enemy, albeit mobile. But that you can fight.

You could invite soulbeasts or deadeyes in your squad to snipe the mount backline.

 

Or you could see the mechanic as some sort of "no downstate event". Didn't we all ask for it?

 

Mounts are capable of breaking the GWEN meta because they allow a lot more fight strategies (much more dynamic). Is that bad?

 

**@topic:**

Great change. I would even go further and reduce the impact range from 360 to 240 so that people actually have to aim properly with the skill when finishing targets.

[Dediggefedde.4961]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> But its so low its a complete waste of supply compared to actually building a standard ram. Its like a noobtrap, lol.

 

I guess it's for those zergs that already have set up 4 rams. Then with warclaws you can get in a bit faster. if you are two people with 20 material each, you could either build a ram or attack 40 times for 40*2k=80k damage.

Flameram skilled does 4k damage (wiki, without skill-2).

wooden gates have 410k health, requiring 200 warclaw pulls, 100 normal ram attacks or 70 superior ram attacks (62 with structural vulnerability, 57 with siege might).

 

Test of credibility: wooden gate with 2 rams would require~30 hits each, 3.25CD, so roughly 1.6 Minutes.

Spending 200 mats on 3 warclaws to open a wooden gate would take 10 Minutes...

 

Please correct me, if some number is wrong. ^^

[Vrath.1754]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> Or you could see the mechanic as some sort of "no downstate event". Didn't we all ask for it?

>

>

No not even the majority in these forums asked for it per those that voted in the polls. At most it was 50-50.

Acknowledging we are a minor subset of the playerbase and who knows if everyone voted what that would reflect.

 

[Duckota.4769]

> @"Vrath.1754" said:

> > @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > Or you could see the mechanic as some sort of "no downstate event". Didn't we all ask for it?

> >

> >

> No not even the majority in these forums asked for it per those that voted in the polls. At most it was 50-50.

> Acknowledging we are a minor subset of the playerbase and who knows if everyone voted what that would reflect.

>

 

To further elaborate on how this is not even close to the same Ill provide a real scenario I encountered earlier. Good fight with someone. I down them. In true no downstate I win that fight. Its over. However I had very low health and they managed to down me with their down abilities. Then someone on a mount from their team comes in and OH SO SKILLFULLY PRESSES 1 BUTTON AND I LOSE THE FIGHT. When if it was true no downstate he would have showed up and actually would have needed some amount of skill to kill me. Considering he showed up 15s after I was down. I would have had quite a bit of health back by then and probably been out of combat entirely. It is not the same or a substitute.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

> @"Duckota.4769" said:

> > @"Vrath.1754" said:

> > > @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > > Or you could see the mechanic as some sort of "no downstate event". Didn't we all ask for it?

> > >

> > >

> > No not even the majority in these forums asked for it per those that voted in the polls. At most it was 50-50.

> > Acknowledging we are a minor subset of the playerbase and who knows if everyone voted what that would reflect.

> >

>

> To further elaborate on how this is not even close to the same Ill provide a real scenario I encountered earlier. Good fight with someone. I down them. In true no downstate I win that fight. Its over. However I had very low health and they managed to down me with their down abilities. Then someone on a mount from their team comes in and OH SO SKILLFULLY PRESSES 1 BUTTON AND I LOSE THE FIGHT. When if it was true no downstate he would have showed up and actually would have needed some amount of skill to kill me. Considering he showed up 15s after I was down. I would have had quite a bit of health back by then and probably been out of combat entirely. It is not the same or a substitute.

 

I see the point you are trying to make, but really, even without the mount:

- newcomer runs to his team mate and presses 'F'

- newcomer targets you and presses '1' until you die

 

Either way, they defeated you by "OH SO SKILLFULLY PRESSES 1 BUTTON".

 

Personally I greatly dislike how some professions have much more impactful down state abilities than others, which is why in WvW I don't even bother with the stomp, but just cleave them down for safety sake.

 

EDIT: let me also add, I don't particularly like the mount being able to finish off down state players, but I suppose the design team was trying to find something uniquely WvW (or more accurately, not PvE) to add flavour to the mount.

[Duckota.4769]

> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> > @"Duckota.4769" said:

> > > @"Vrath.1754" said:

> > > > @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > > > Or you could see the mechanic as some sort of "no downstate event". Didn't we all ask for it?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > No not even the majority in these forums asked for it per those that voted in the polls. At most it was 50-50.

> > > Acknowledging we are a minor subset of the playerbase and who knows if everyone voted what that would reflect.

> > >

> >

> > To further elaborate on how this is not even close to the same Ill provide a real scenario I encountered earlier. Good fight with someone. I down them. In true no downstate I win that fight. Its over. However I had very low health and they managed to down me with their down abilities. Then someone on a mount from their team comes in and OH SO SKILLFULLY PRESSES 1 BUTTON AND I LOSE THE FIGHT. When if it was true no downstate he would have showed up and actually would have needed some amount of skill to kill me. Considering he showed up 15s after I was down. I would have had quite a bit of health back by then and probably been out of combat entirely. It is not the same or a substitute.

>

> I see the point you are trying to make, but really, even without the mount:

> - newcomer runs to his team mate and presses 'F'

> - newcomer targets you and presses '1' until you die

>

> Either way, they defeated you by "OH SO SKILLFULLY PRESSES 1 BUTTON".

>

> Personally I greatly dislike how some professions have much more impactful down state abilities than others, which is why in WvW I don't even bother with the stomp, but just cleave them down for safety sake.

>

> EDIT: let me also add, I don't particularly like the mount being able to finish off down state players, but I suppose the design team was trying to find something uniquely WvW (or more accurately, not PvE) to add flavour to the mount.

 

No no. What Im saying is the the time between me downing and the newcomer showing up was like 15s. Me and downed guy were spamming 1 on each other while downed which takes forever. In true no downstate he would have been outright finished and by the time the 2nd guy shows up im out of combat and back to full health only missing a few cooldowns. And yeah some downstate abilities are busted.

 

Edit: Prior to the mount the result is the same yeah. I was just comparing this to true no downstate.

[Stalkingwolf.6035]

> @"Ultima.5318" said:

> 3? isnt that a bit extreme? borderline useless if it dont even hit 5.

 

hammer -> nail -> solution :-)

[Turkeyspit.3965]

> @"Duckota.4769" said:

> > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> > > @"Duckota.4769" said:

> > > > @"Vrath.1754" said:

> > > > > @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > > > > Or you could see the mechanic as some sort of "no downstate event". Didn't we all ask for it?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > No not even the majority in these forums asked for it per those that voted in the polls. At most it was 50-50.

> > > > Acknowledging we are a minor subset of the playerbase and who knows if everyone voted what that would reflect.

> > > >

> > >

> > > To further elaborate on how this is not even close to the same Ill provide a real scenario I encountered earlier. Good fight with someone. I down them. In true no downstate I win that fight. Its over. However I had very low health and they managed to down me with their down abilities. Then someone on a mount from their team comes in and OH SO SKILLFULLY PRESSES 1 BUTTON AND I LOSE THE FIGHT. When if it was true no downstate he would have showed up and actually would have needed some amount of skill to kill me. Considering he showed up 15s after I was down. I would have had quite a bit of health back by then and probably been out of combat entirely. It is not the same or a substitute.

> >

> > I see the point you are trying to make, but really, even without the mount:

> > - newcomer runs to his team mate and presses 'F'

> > - newcomer targets you and presses '1' until you die

> >

> > Either way, they defeated you by "OH SO SKILLFULLY PRESSES 1 BUTTON".

> >

> > Personally I greatly dislike how some professions have much more impactful down state abilities than others, which is why in WvW I don't even bother with the stomp, but just cleave them down for safety sake.

> >

> > EDIT: let me also add, I don't particularly like the mount being able to finish off down state players, but I suppose the design team was trying to find something uniquely WvW (or more accurately, not PvE) to add flavour to the mount.

>

> No no. What Im saying is the the time between me downing and the newcomer showing up was like 15s. Me and downed guy were spamming 1 on each other while downed which takes forever. In true no downstate he would have been outright finished and by the time the 2nd guy shows up im out of combat and back to full health only missing a few cooldowns. And yeah some downstate abilities are busted.

>

> Edit: Prior to the mount the result is the same yeah. I was just comparing this to true no downstate.

 

Yes, fair enough. The biggest asset of the mount is speed, and whether it means you losing a fight because reinforcements showed up, or that your circle was contested because enemy players could respond faster is fact of life now.

 

Flip the coin though: you can respond faster to an objective being attacked, and you can rush to the aid of a team mate and be the stomper, not the stompee.

Flip the coin again: after reinforcements wiped your squad, you can all get back to the objective you were sieging faster, leaving the defenders less time to repair, replace siege, or bring in additional reinforcements.

 

Arguing the merits / demerits of this mount is all about perspective and context, and generally results in a circular argument.

[Duckota.4769]

> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> Flip the coin though: you can respond faster to an objective being attacked, and you can rush to the aid of a team mate and be the stomper, not the stompee.

> Flip the coin again: after reinforcements wiped your squad, you can all get back to the objective you were sieging faster, leaving the defenders less time to repair, replace siege, or bring in additional reinforcements.

>

> Arguing the merits / demerits of this mount is all about perspective and context, and generally results in a circular argument.

 

Removed a lot of people in this chain so not everyone gets pinged since its mostly us two talking now.

 

I was quite fine with the speed of things before and I think this digs into class balance when you start making mobility universal. Is core thief going to get more sustain or more dmg now that everyone gets around just as quickly? I'd also rather nobody be stomping with this mount. Id like if it didnt stomp at all. Allowing the mount to stomp was almost an immediately 'indirect nerf' to the warrior banner they just changed to stomp. Im a small scale kind of person. All that means is we quickly get overwhelmed by 50 people because mounts are busted when before they tricked in depending on their mobility and sure we'd die eventually but man was it a lot of fun. Now they just jump on you with 50 mounts which is pretty lame. Its quite funny that because so many people will only fight when they tremendously outnumber someone that the strongest strategy ive found yet is to run into 10 people with my 4 friends just waiting. Let them all attack me to get into combat and then my friends come in and we have a good outnumbered fight. They kite forever if not.

[Graymalkyn.8076]

> @"Sviel.7493" said:

> > @"Ultima.5318" said:

> > 3? isnt that a bit extreme? borderline useless if it dont even hit 5.

>

> The mount itself is already super useful--so much so that it risks becoming mandatory. The engage is just a 14th layer of icing on the cake.

 

I would venture to say that it already is mandatory. The cavalry can now get to a camp and sack it, and turn it, often before the infantry can even get there. That's a lot of XP the infantry is missing out on.

[Metzie.9083]

Hey Folks, regarding the latest "warclaw" update, my thoughts on this. It requires adjustments, no question about it. ;-)

**On skill 1:** *********I agree with @"Ultima.5318" . Why please from 10 to 3? Why not 5? Had it been 5 from the start to then reduce them to 3 okay. Couldn't that have made more sense? Never mind, this isn't really an issue right now. "Change my mind."

**On skill 2:***********As far as acceptable and certainly a helpful skill. Not worth further of the speech at the moment, isn't it? "Change my mind."

**On skill 3:***********Needs an overhaul for sure. For 126 world skill points you expect a little more! I will return to this skill at a later date and another contribution or poll. Then an overhaul will probably be more secondary.

**On skill 4:***********This does not exist (yet). My proposal for general improvement as far as the war claw is concerned, see the following article/poll, participate and vote: [WARCLAW improvement - what is your opinion on ... ?](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/70864/warclaw-improvement-what-is-your-opinion-on "WARCLAW improvement - what is your opinion on ... ?") It is a link, click it, ...

So much for my feedback on the current situation regarding claw and skills.PS: Personally, I like the skill 1 best, so far! The graphic animation, great! :p

[LordMorgul.9845]

the leap nerf is idiotic

 

[Alver Lyko.4693]

> @"LordMorgul.9845" said:

> the leap nerf is idiotic

I agree 100%. Only talking about the speed of travel from point to point, the original leap distance with the mount speed made WvW more fun . Now, with the nerf, less fun. Sigh. Hope they return the leap distance while still fixing in a very targeted way the exploits and unintended issues if that is possible.

[bluberblasen.9684]

restore leap nerf !

make mount skill 1 = 5 targets

remove stomp on skill 1

mount is not immune to cc ( lets tank it 1 or 2 ccs )

Thank You !

 

[zionophir.6845]

reducing targets from 10 to 3 is balanced for roaming and zerging.

[zionophir.6845]

> @"Knopa.7524" said:

> 2k chainpull on 400k t0 gate is 200 chainpulls. 200 mats and pulls to open t0 door is less than useless

 

you need a zerg of warclaws doing chainpulls + the usual sup sieges

[Strider Pj.2193]

 

 

> @"bluberblasen.9684" said:

> restore leap nerf !

> make mount skill 1 = 5 targets

> remove stomp on skill 1

> mount is not immune to cc ( lets tank it 1 or 2 ccs )

> Thank You !

>

 

> @"LordMorgul.9845" said:

> the leap nerf is idiotic

>

 

> @"Alver Lyko.4693" said:

> > @"LordMorgul.9845" said:

> > the leap nerf is idiotic

> I agree 100%. Only talking about the speed of travel from point to point, the original leap distance with the mount speed made WvW more fun . Now, with the nerf, less fun. Sigh. Hope they return the leap distance while still fixing in a very targeted way the exploits and unintended issues if that is possible.

 

Leap distance nerf is likely to reduce to ability to exploit into structures that exists now.

 

It’s a quicker fix than fixing the map/structure itself.

 

Of course, not adding the mount would have been the easiest solution but it’s not like they were told that exploits would be there with mounts.

[bluberblasen.9684]

> @"zionophir.6845" said:

> reducing targets from 10 to 3 is balanced for roaming and zerging.

 

for roaming = who cares ? A Roamer will NEVER be hit by a mount ... because a roamer knows how to dodge...

And 5 targets in a large blob is only fair for melee classes ( oh wait i know all we play are 5 target hammer revs, 5 targets necros, 5 targets guard...)

 

so we stay at pirate ship ... ZzzzZZZzzzZZZZZ

i saw much hope in the mounts for breaking blobs but you all want to stay at boring 1200 range meta..

so i give up my hope in this community..

 

 

[zionophir.6845]

> @"bluberblasen.9684" said:

> > @"zionophir.6845" said:

> > reducing targets from 10 to 3 is balanced for roaming and zerging.

>

> for roaming = who cares ? A Roamer will NEVER be hit by a mount ... because a roamer knows how to dodge...

> And 5 targets in a large blob is only fair for melee classes ( oh wait i know all we play are 5 target hammer revs, 5 targets necros, 5 targets guard...)

>

> so we stay at pirate ship ... ZzzzZZZzzzZZZZZ

> i saw much hope in the mounts for breaking blobs but you all want to stay at boring 1200 range meta..

> so i give up my hope in this community..

>

>

 

usually the max amount of legit roamers are 2-3. 1 is the standard of course.

 

and for the zerging part 3 targets x 50 warclaw map queue zerg. compared to 10 targets x 50 warclaw map queue zerg. thats 150 vs 500 potential targets. the latter is way way high.

 

sounds balanced (no sarcasm).

[Ghosst of Seraphim.8167]

With the leap ability now useless you might as well just get a speed-buff and move on foot. The chain pull is a waste of supply, the damage is nerfed into uselessness. Too bad, I would have bought skins but you killed the kitten before even the first weekend.