How to nerf Scrapper properly

[Rusty.9348]

Anyway decisions are made by the devs. They must have some sort of logic behind it, just hard to beleive they are led by QQs.

[kiranslee.4829]

> @"Rusty.9348" said:

> Anyway decisions are made by the devs. They must have some sort of logic behind it, just hard to beleive they are led by QQs.

 

Not hard to me, mesmer/eles sub forums have specific way to QQ so much they eventually get what they wish (as opposed to warriors what are always ,"Fine").

Pvp needs shake up.

[Ganathar.4956]

> @"kiranslee.4829" said:

> > @"Rusty.9348" said:

> > Anyway decisions are made by the devs. They must have some sort of logic behind it, just hard to beleive they are led by QQs.

>

> Not hard to me, mesmer/eles sub forums have specific way to QQ so much they eventually get what they wish (as opposed to warriors what are always ,"Fine").

> Pvp needs shake up.

 

Do they really get what they wish? You would think that ele would actually be good by now if that was the case.

[kiranslee.4829]

> @"Ganathar.4956" said:

> > @"kiranslee.4829" said:

> > > @"Rusty.9348" said:

> > > Anyway decisions are made by the devs. They must have some sort of logic behind it, just hard to beleive they are led by QQs.

> >

> > Not hard to me, mesmer/eles sub forums have specific way to QQ so much they eventually get what they wish (as opposed to warriors what are always ,"Fine").

> > Pvp needs shake up.

>

> Do they really get what they wish? You would think that ele would actually be good by now if that was the case.

 

Eles had prime spot for pve for ages, and the community had a lot to do with it . And i do wish shake up in pvp. I stopped doing it since i got to point that is just boring to me. And its just my opinion , i can fully be wrong what community wish, then again i think for majority of ppl i played with who stopped with similar reasons , stale and boring is the how current state is.

[Odik.4587]

> @"Rusty.9348" said:

> Anyway decisions are made by the devs. They must have some sort of logic behind it, just hard to beleive they are led by QQs.

Lets see...

>! Forgot to add : every NERF thread started with words : Nerf this and only then mirage will be perfectly balanced .

>! People complaint about EM-> its get 3s exhaust. I told by then they will cry even harder after its nerf ,then its became 6s. Its not hard to see consequences when they nerf something that never been an issue. This result in more nerfs ,in anet case they never get what is the problem.

>! Torch had 3 burn stacks if you land it ? You could land 8 stacks if you land both torch skills with a phantasm , everyone been like 'its damn torch bursting ppl down too quick!' , they nerfed burns on torch.

>! People cry that mirage gets insane mobility with a portal . Portal was gutted.

>! Mirage have too much evasion! Anet gutted vigor on core,mirage and core sword2 . They nerfed core to lower evasion on mirage,wp.

>! Ppl cry about 'too much damage' - anet nerf power mesmer and power portion on axe ,removed jaunt stack.

>! Last patch shown that they completely out of touch with thier own game and dont know what to do - except making sure its die for sure (without adressing actual problems : CHAOS+perma reflect + sage combo and scepter of course, axe ambush was nerfed ) . I starting to think Vallun was actually trying to save mirage from what happened in the last patch when said chaos should not be viable

Prove me wrong if you want

 

[Rusty.9348]

@"kiranslee.4829"

Maybe this is where people disagree - some want MOBA style PvP like "be quick or be dead", some prefer it slower and more tactical. It seems we can't have both at the same time.

[Ganathar.4956]

> @"kiranslee.4829" said:

> > @"Ganathar.4956" said:

> > > @"kiranslee.4829" said:

> > > > @"Rusty.9348" said:

> > > > Anyway decisions are made by the devs. They must have some sort of logic behind it, just hard to beleive they are led by QQs.

> > >

> > > Not hard to me, mesmer/eles sub forums have specific way to QQ so much they eventually get what they wish (as opposed to warriors what are always ,"Fine").

> > > Pvp needs shake up.

> >

> > Do they really get what they wish? You would think that ele would actually be good by now if that was the case.

>

> Eles had prime spot for pve for ages, and the community had a lot to do with it . And i do wish shake up in pvp. I stopped doing it since i got to point that is just boring to me. And its just my opinion , i can fully be wrong what community wish, then again i think for majority of ppl i played with who stopped with similar reasons , stale and boring is the how current state is.

 

No, I recall everyone QQing about ele being too good in PvE and yet it took Anet ages to do anything about it, just like with mirage and all the other broken PoF specs in PvP.

[apharma.3741]

> @"Ruufio.1496" said:

> Keep seeing people whine about medic gyro when medic gyro isn't even part of the issue.

>

> Again, any nerfs to medic gyro will just force everyone to use healing turret again since it's _also_ 2 water field, a much larger AOE and grants vigor and reflection and the cooldown is 15s if you know how to actually engi.

>

> Small nerfs/shaves to the barrier spam (bulwark gyro/adaptive armor) and maybe to superspeed duration is all that is needed.

 

So what you're saying is nerf healing turret as well?

[Vagrant.7206]

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"Ruufio.1496" said:

> > Keep seeing people whine about medic gyro when medic gyro isn't even part of the issue.

> >

> > Again, any nerfs to medic gyro will just force everyone to use healing turret again since it's _also_ 2 water field, a much larger AOE and grants vigor and reflection and the cooldown is 15s if you know how to actually engi.

> >

> > Small nerfs/shaves to the barrier spam (bulwark gyro/adaptive armor) and maybe to superspeed duration is all that is needed.

>

> You mean a spec that can 1x3 need few small nerfs? Just wow...

> Scrapper deserve the same treatment as mirage - overkill. Not small nerfs to keep this AED's (you know what I mean). Not like engi desperately need another OP spec . Better to see ele with at least 1 meta/close to meta build

 

Right, mirage is dead, scrapper is so oppressive it needs to die.

 

I mean really? Give me a break with the overexaggeration. Scrapper isn't as good as a lot of the other top sidenoders, because it lacks in anything besides sheer tankiness, which can be countered with a good burst or good CC.

 

Seriously. I can kill bad scrappers on prot holo, no problem. Decent scrappers I stalemate with. But I have way more killing potential on prot holo than I do scrapper. I can also survive encounters that scrapper generally can't.

 

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"Rusty.9348" said:

> > Just showing some support to this. See no reason why a scrapper can't have some power (at last). It has been redesigned well. See no need to nerf it just because somebody can't kill it.

> Oh wait...

> Scrapper is alot better than chronobunker while every single mesmer agree scepter is now OP and need nerfs(its something that carry the build/class)

> BUUUUUUUUUUUT SCRAPPER DOESNT NEED NERFS ... Are you serious ?

> In that case can we buff chrono until it becomes OP as scrapper to be equal at least?

 

Chronobunker was ridiculously OP because not only was it just as tanky as scrapper is now, but it could actually deal a heaping ton of damage to boot, and could finish targets. I don't know how you can compare the two. I remember because I actually ran it for a while and dear god it was easy to play and wreck people with without knowing a thing about the class. In the hands of a skilled player it was far worse.

 

 

[zoopop.5630]

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"Ruufio.1496" said:

> > Keep seeing people whine about medic gyro when medic gyro isn't even part of the issue.

> >

> > Again, any nerfs to medic gyro will just force everyone to use healing turret again since it's _also_ 2 water field, a much larger AOE and grants vigor and reflection and the cooldown is 15s if you know how to actually engi.

> >

> > Small nerfs/shaves to the barrier spam (bulwark gyro/adaptive armor) and maybe to superspeed duration is all that is needed.

>

> You mean a spec that can 1x3 need few small nerfs? Just wow...

> Scrapper deserve the same treatment as mirage - overkill. Not small nerfs to keep this AED's (you know what I mean). Not like engi desperately need another OP spec . Better to see ele with at least 1 meta/close to meta build

 

weren't mirage over powered for over 6 seasons? How's scrapper anything like Condi mirage before and after the rework on confusion?

 

 

One class was able to kill anyone in seconds with no skills at all while sustaining 1vs x at times, and the other class can't kill a single thing beside hold a node 1 vs x.

 

Mirage was on another level in general compared to scrapper during their prime time.

[DaShi.1368]

The door is already open for gutting OP specs. It's disingenuous now to ask for otherwise for scrappers.

[Vagrant.7206]

> @"DaShi.1368" said:

> The door is already open for gutting OP specs. It's disingenuous now to ask for otherwise for scrappers.

 

What does this even mean?

[DaShi.1368]

> @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > @"DaShi.1368" said:

> > The door is already open for gutting OP specs. It's disingenuous now to ask for otherwise for scrappers.

>

> What does this even mean?

 

The door is already open for gutting OP specs. It's disingenuous now to ask for otherwise for scrappers.

[Vagrant.7206]

> @"DaShi.1368" said:

> > @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > > @"DaShi.1368" said:

> > > The door is already open for gutting OP specs. It's disingenuous now to ask for otherwise for scrappers.

> >

> > What does this even mean?

>

> The door is already open for gutting OP specs. It's disingenuous now to ask for otherwise for scrappers.

 

Thanks, repeating yourself really clarifies things.

[whoknocks.4935]

I'm not an engi main, but if next Tuesday they nerf heavily scrapper they will show how much profession preference they have, leaving condi mirage untouched for how many season? 4 or 5?

And scrapper being nerfed after 2 weeks only...

The law is not equal for everyone.

[Iozeph.5617]

> @"derd.6413" said:

> > @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> > It's going to get nerfed. Be it a shave or a hammer it's going to happen. Then this forum can be filled with the opposite threads.

> >

> > "My class was finally fine. Why have you nerfed it."

>

> like that's exclusive to scrapper

 

But by comparison to most other profs it's certainly endemic to Engineer.

[Kicast.1459]

> @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> I'm not an engi main, but if next Tuesday they nerf heavily scrapper they will show how much profession preference they have, leaving condi mirage untouched for how many season? 4 or 5?

> And scrapper being nerfed after 2 weeks only...

> The law is not equal for everyone.

 

dumbass retard argument.

[whoknocks.4935]

> @"Kicast.1459" said:

> > @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> > I'm not an engi main, but if next Tuesday they nerf heavily scrapper they will show how much profession preference they have, leaving condi mirage untouched for how many season? 4 or 5?

> > And scrapper being nerfed after 2 weeks only...

> > The law is not equal for everyone.

>

> kitten kitten argument.

 

Same as your comment.

Lame kitten kitten.

[Quadox.7834]

> @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> > @"Kicast.1459" said:

> > > @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> > > I'm not an engi main, but if next Tuesday they nerf heavily scrapper they will show how much profession preference they have, leaving condi mirage untouched for how many season? 4 or 5?

> > > And scrapper being nerfed after 2 weeks only...

> > > The law is not equal for everyone.

> >

> > kitten kitten argument.

>

> Same as your comment.

> Lame kitten kitten.

 

They didn't leave Mesmer alone, it got nerfed multiple times.

[Vagrant.7206]

> @"Quadox.7834" said:

> > @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> > > @"Kicast.1459" said:

> > > > @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> > > > I'm not an engi main, but if next Tuesday they nerf heavily scrapper they will show how much profession preference they have, leaving condi mirage untouched for how many season? 4 or 5?

> > > > And scrapper being nerfed after 2 weeks only...

> > > > The law is not equal for everyone.

> > >

> > > kitten kitten argument.

> >

> > Same as your comment.

> > Lame kitten kitten.

>

> They didn't leave Mesmer alone, it got nerfed multiple times.

 

The primary reasons it was broken didn't get nerfed until this most recent patch. They made several small adjustments in the hopes they wouldn't have to do major nerfing, but players are clever and found ways around their small adjustments. And it's still in a decent place; it's not nearly as oppressive now (it basically invalidated warrior), but it's still capable.

 

Compare this with how hard turrets got nerfed back in vanilla after the cele turret engi. Many of the turrets are STILL in a bad place after all this time. The only one I see with regularity is healing turret, and sometimes thumper turret.

 

> @"Iozeph.5617" said:

> > @"derd.6413" said:

> > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> > > It's going to get nerfed. Be it a shave or a hammer it's going to happen. Then this forum can be filled with the opposite threads.

> > >

> > > "My class was finally fine. Why have you nerfed it."

> >

> > like that's exclusive to scrapper

>

> But by comparison to most other profs it's certainly endemic to Engineer.

 

What are you even on about?

 

Every player thinks their main class is fine when it's on top. In this case though, scrapper is not on top. Yes, bulwark gyro and sneak gyro need adjusting (I'm not a fan of their performance in PvP), but the spec itself hasn't been fundamentally changed beyond the gyro changes. It's just now finally **VIABLE** and the meta has shifted to a somewhat tankier style that we had back in the HoT days.

[Spartacus.3192]

> @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > @"DaShi.1368" said:

> > The door is already open for gutting OP specs. It's disingenuous now to ask for otherwise for scrappers.

>

> What does this even mean?

 

I think he just wanted to use the word "disingenuous " in a sentence.

[apharma.3741]

> @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > @"Quadox.7834" said:

> > > @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> > > > @"Kicast.1459" said:

> > > > > @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> > > > > I'm not an engi main, but if next Tuesday they nerf heavily scrapper they will show how much profession preference they have, leaving condi mirage untouched for how many season? 4 or 5?

> > > > > And scrapper being nerfed after 2 weeks only...

> > > > > The law is not equal for everyone.

> > > >

> > > > kitten kitten argument.

> > >

> > > Same as your comment.

> > > Lame kitten kitten.

> >

> > They didn't leave Mesmer alone, it got nerfed multiple times.

>

> The primary reasons it was broken didn't get nerfed until this most recent patch. They made several small adjustments in the hopes they wouldn't have to do major nerfing, but players are clever and found ways around their small adjustments. And it's still in a decent place; it's not nearly as oppressive now (it basically invalidated warrior), but it's still capable.

>

> Compare this with how hard turrets got nerfed back in vanilla after the cele turret engi. Many of the turrets are STILL in a bad place after all this time. The only one I see with regularity is healing turret, and sometimes thumper turret.

 

Oh you poor man, if you think the primary reasons were properly addressed this last patch you should probably stop posting on the forums. The issues that made mirage so obnoxious still persist for the most part and it's only 1 random buff away from being complained about in the future.

 

Also many of the turrets that are in a bad place now aren't in a bad place because of the turret engy nerfs, they're like that because they're poorly designed and power creep.

[Iozeph.5617]

> @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> What are you even on about?

>

> Every player thinks their main class is fine when it's on top. In this case though, scrapper is not on top. Yes, bulwark gyro and sneak gyro need adjusting (I'm not a fan of their performance in PvP), but the spec itself hasn't been fundamentally changed beyond the gyro changes. It's just now finally **VIABLE** and the meta has shifted to a somewhat tankier style that we had back in the HoT days.

 

Perhaps you might calm down and then reread what I'd written in regards to the person I'd quoted. I didn't believe it was all that difficult to comprehend.

 

Sigmoid says:

 

@"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> It's going to get nerfed. Be it a shave or a hammer it's going to happen. Then this forum can be filled with the opposite threads.

>

> "My class was finally fine. Why have you nerfed it."

 

Derd Replies:

 

> @"derd.6413" said:

> like that's exclusive to scrapper

 

I reply:

@"Iozeph.5617" said:

> But by comparison to most other profs it's certainly endemic to Engineer.

>

 

What I'd essentially said was that while every profession, at one time or another, has complained of a nerf here and there the Engineer has been plagued by them from beginning to present. It isn't something new to me. I don't play Holosmith, found Scrapper too easily kited then and now(especially after it was nerfed), and as such I don't recall a time when I've ever felt that Engineer was 'fine' or 'on top' -from before HoT til now. If that wasn't evident to you in what I'd said then, what more now that I've explained, then I don't know what more to say to you. /shrug

[Manuhell.2759]

> @"apharma.3741" said:

> Also many of the turrets that are in a bad place now aren't in a bad place because of the turret engy nerfs, they're like that because they're poorly designed and power creep.

 

I remember the discussions about them at the time. A ton of people in this same subforum wanted them nerfed to the floor, whereas many engineers asked for a rework to make them more active. They got nerfed to the floor and barely looked upon since.

They are like that because that's what people overwhemly wanted (and engineers being among the less popular classes back then didn't help either).

 

Beside, it's funny that you mention their design. They were designed as "Immobile allied devices deployed to help defend and control an area.".

And then they were made useless in any mode because they were doing exactly what they were designed for (as i said above, people aside from engineers weren't even asking for reworks, they just wanted them gone). So much for their design, uh.