Warclaw kills Roaming

[Obtena.7952]

> @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> > @"DeadlySynz.3471" said:

> > Warclaw has killed ganking not roaming. People are often confusing roaming for ganking. You can still roam around on warclaw, flip camps and attack towers with a small group. You can also attack other small groups trying to take camps or towers once they're dismounted. You can also duel with other like roamers who have warclaw, just jump off and start attacking each other.

> >

> > Hiding in stealth ready to ambush someone, or killing them on the way to their group or objective isn't roaming, it's ganking. Especially if the player isn't sitting in a build capable of fending off someone in a single or small group setting. That is what warclaw basically ended, and thankfully it did. We're likely to find more pve players starting to filter into WvW now because they can confidently get to their groups and participate.

> >

> > Just as Magnuzone pointed out, play against people interested in fighting you (as they likely are in a build made to do so), problem solved. Ganking is not roaming.

>

> then what do you do if you see an enemy player, cheer? Because it's certainly not engaging or "ganking" by the sounds of it lol

>

> "Ganking" comes with the roaming territory as it does with zergs who "gank" the solo player trying to take a sentry.

 

I don't think that's accurate ... how many time I've seen a ganker pop from stealth to one shot someone in a roaming group taking a camp or sentry ... way fewer than I've seen they pick of solo runners. Why? Because gankers are in it for the easy, no -skill kills and the easy kills are more likely the lone player running to a fight over open territory or pinch points where gankers prey on them.

 

Honestly, I think that's the whole point ... the 'easy' kill rewards now match with the risks. There shouldn't be many easy kill opportunities; they aren't literally going to set themselves up by running in front of you anymore.

 

[tobin.6754]

I like how you guys keep mentioning roaming group, like them group wouldn't chase a single guy roaming/taking camp etc...

[sephiroth.4217]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> > > @"DeadlySynz.3471" said:

> > > Warclaw has killed ganking not roaming. People are often confusing roaming for ganking. You can still roam around on warclaw, flip camps and attack towers with a small group. You can also attack other small groups trying to take camps or towers once they're dismounted. You can also duel with other like roamers who have warclaw, just jump off and start attacking each other.

> > >

> > > Hiding in stealth ready to ambush someone, or killing them on the way to their group or objective isn't roaming, it's ganking. Especially if the player isn't sitting in a build capable of fending off someone in a single or small group setting. That is what warclaw basically ended, and thankfully it did. We're likely to find more pve players starting to filter into WvW now because they can confidently get to their groups and participate.

> > >

> > > Just as Magnuzone pointed out, play against people interested in fighting you (as they likely are in a build made to do so), problem solved. Ganking is not roaming.

> >

> > then what do you do if you see an enemy player, cheer? Because it's certainly not engaging or "ganking" by the sounds of it lol

> >

> > "Ganking" comes with the roaming territory as it does with zergs who "gank" the solo player trying to take a sentry.

>

> I don't think that's accurate ... how many time I've seen a ganker pop from stealth to one shot someone in a roaming group taking a camp or sentry ... zero. Because they are in it for the easy kill and the easy kill aren't players in a group ... it's the lone player running to a fight over open territory or pinch points where gankers prey on them.

>

> Honestly, I think that's the whole point ... the 'easy' kill rewards now match with the risks. In otherwords ... you're only going to catch the high risk players on a gank for the easy kills you want; the risk profile should be determined by the defender, not the attacker.

>

 

I dunno I think its pretty risky to tap an enemy keep and float between the spawn and keep for the purpose of ganking people..

Im a weirdo though, like yesterday I held pang solo against about 10 or so people over the course of half hour then when I died, I held the sentry near Mendons for about 20 minutes before tapping red keep and spawn camping for another half hour there..

I was ganked by the zerg eventually, but that window was long enough for them to lose a T3 tower..

 

Am I a dirty roamer, or a dirty ganker? Zerg ganked me anyway so Im curious why zergers have the moral high ground in this.

[Obtena.7952]

I dunno what you are, but based on the scenario you presented, it doesn't sound to me like you have much of an issue with mounts there ...

 

Hey, you can tap and lure all you like still. If people are coming out to find you, they are LOOKING for a fight. Should be easy if you catch one if your an experienced ganker and they are easy kill noobs.

[CETheLucid.3964]

> @"tobin.6754" said:

> > @"CETheLucid.3964" said:

> > > @"tobin.6754" said:

> > > If you get one shot by de/mesmer on any of the meta zerg class, you're just bad, maybe get good?

> >

> > Your entire build depends on catching someone unaware. You can dismount them easily. You're BSing (or seriously terrible and the mount wouldn't play any part). It's just that it spends your burst so when they're off the mount you can't do your cheese properly.

> >

> > They'll melt you instead. Frankly if you were better at your craft and a bit more flexible, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

>

> I think you misunderstood.

Easy to misunderstand when you frame the context as de/mesmer. Noted.

> @"GaijinGuy.8476" said:

> I don't complain when a zerg steamrolls me (I wouldn't consider this ganking) so I don't see why someone from a havoc group or zerg should complain if someone jumps them while heading back to their group.

Yet this thread exists as mostly gankers complaining they can't secure a kill because new things are scary and adapting is hard. But that's the nature of people I suppose, right?

[DemonSeed.3528]

Why do people think ganking is exclusive to people roaming? I see this from all kinds of people.

[sephiroth.4217]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> I dunno what you are, but based on the scenario you presented, it doesn't sound to me like you have much of an issue with mounts there ...

>

> Hey, you can tap and lure all you like still. If people are coming out to find you, they are LOOKING for a fight. Should be easy if you catch one if your an experienced ganker and they are easy kill noobs.

 

not really no, just adapted is all...

Instead of playing Tempest open field, I now play stealth builds around enemy spawns or stick to overused locations with lots of human traffic

 

currently trying to convince a scrapper friend to join me so we can set up stealth ballistas on the fly to make ganking easier

[Drecien.4508]

Learn to play. Many mesmers and deadeye dismount me sometimes and I just stand there so they get a quick kill and I can go back to what I was doing. Ruining their fun hopefully.

[GaijinGuy.8476]

> @"CETheLucid.3964" said:

 

> Yet this thread exists as mostly gankers complaining they can't secure a kill because new things are scary and adapting is hard. But that's the nature of people I suppose, right?

 

I don't have a problem with people being able to run away, I like the mount. As a ranger I am able to get people off their mounts sometimes. Other times I can't but I don't complain about it I just say "oh well" and move on. I have a problem with people labeling everyone who kills them/tries to kill them a ganker.

 

It's an all out war mode. There are all types of people. Some builds are cheesy (and very frustrating) that excel at 1v1 or "one-shotting" unsuspecting players but will get steamrolled by larger groups. Some builds are designed to excel in a larger group environment, benefiting others and providing benefits to others and are successful at taking down larger groups but struggle when with smaller numbers.

 

Why all the salt? You got killed in WvW? Oh well, just move on. It is a PvP environment where you kill other players after all.

[DemonSeed.3528]

> @"Drecien.4508" said:

> Learn to play.

> I just stand there

 

 

[CETheLucid.3964]

> @"GaijinGuy.8476" said:

> > @"CETheLucid.3964" said:

>

> > Yet this thread exists as mostly gankers complaining they can't secure a kill because new things are scary and adapting is hard. But that's the nature of people I suppose, right?

>

> I don't have a problem with people being able to run away, I like the mount. As a ranger I am able to get people off their mounts sometimes. Other times I can't but I don't complain about it I just say "oh well" and move on. I have a problem with people labeling everyone who kills them/tries to kill them a ganker.

>

> It's an all out war mode. There are all types of people. Some builds are cheesy (and very frustrating) that excel at 1v1 or "one-shotting" unsuspecting players but will get steamrolled by larger groups. Some builds are designed to excel in a larger group environment, benefiting others and providing benefits to others and are successful at taking down larger groups but struggle when with smaller numbers.

>

> Why all the salt? You got killed in WvW? Oh well, just move on. It is a PvP environment where you kill other players after all.

 

You're not wrong. ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯

Well said.

[Drecien.4508]

> @"DemonSeed.3528" said:

> > @"Drecien.4508" said:

> > Learn to play.

> > I just stand there

>

>

 

Not gonna give gankers a fun time. ?

[GaijinGuy.8476]

> @"Drecien.4508" said:

> Learn to play. Many mesmers and deadeye dismount me sometimes and I just stand there so they get a quick kill and I can go back to what I was doing. Ruining their fun hopefully.

 

This is the "oh well, just move on" attitude that more people should have. Sometimes not so nice things happen and you get killed. Oh well, just move on.

And don't go making fun of people like this, I can understand where this person is coming from with their attitude towards mesmers and deadeyes. They can be very frustrating to deal with if you are not built/prepared to take them on.

[GaijinGuy.8476]

> @"CETheLucid.3964" said:

> You're not wrong. ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯

> Well said.

 

Thanks :)

 

[DemonSeed.3528]

> @"GaijinGuy.8476" said:

 

> This is the "oh well, just move on" attitude that more people should have. Sometimes not so nice things happen and you get killed. Oh well, just move on.

> And don't go making fun of people like this, I can understand where this person is coming from with their attitude towards mesmers and deadeyes. They can be very frustrating to deal with if you are not built/prepared to take them on.

 

I accept all my deaths, and then I become better able to deal with them the next time. I'm just surprised no one wants to improve, this game is awesome if people give a chance to try every single thing like all kinds of builds, all the classes, all the weaponsets, and if things become too easy for people who think they are at top notch level, try using traits or gear that would be gimping yourselves in order for a challenge (once in a blue moon you'll see that naked person running around fighting haha). Try all kinds of roles, don't stick to one. Accepting losses and learning from them and how to deal with them can lead one to becoming better, even if it takes a long time. I would never consider myself a zerger or roamer, I wouldn't want to limit myself from opportunities at playing in all kinds of ways. I think right now though, in the state that the game is, it does little to make people want to improve or even motivate them. Well, that could be both the game or the players fault. As it is, it will continue to become an easier game to play and it will become too simplified for most people to enjoy.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > I dunno what you are, but based on the scenario you presented, it doesn't sound to me like you have much of an issue with mounts there ...

> >

> > Hey, you can tap and lure all you like still. If people are coming out to find you, they are LOOKING for a fight. Should be easy if you catch one if your an experienced ganker and they are easy kill noobs.

>

> not really no, just adapted is all...

> Instead of playing Tempest open field, I now play stealth builds around enemy spawns or stick to overused locations with lots of human traffic

>

> currently trying to convince a scrapper friend to join me so we can set up stealth ballistas on the fly to make ganking easier

 

Hey, that's how good MMO players do ... adapting to game change is necessary in MMO's. You're an example of how solo roamers can adapt to the game situation and still get value from the game modes they like playing.

[derd.6413]

> @"reddie.5861" said:

> > @"derd.6413" said:

> > > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > > @"DemonSeed.3528" said:

> > > > Mounts could be changed into a timed summon - 10-15s per summon with 5-8s CD. This is enough to get to their destination whilst giving a sense of urgency and risk still, and people have more chance to catch them instead of the mount running circles around groups of people or singles trying to stop them.

> > > If we just want mounts to be a travel tool, automatic dismount on entering combat end of story. Much simpler implementation than any cds.

> > >

> >

> > or ppl could try to adapt to the changes instead of crying to the forums that their deadeye/mesmer can no longer one shot ppl uninterested in small scale fights (and don't have the build/gear to do so anyway)

>

> do small scale fights even exist nowadays?

> warclaw has destroyed it for glass cannon classes and dont give me kitten that it didnt.

> i play thief main i cant do a kitten to stop some1 from getting off his mount.

>

> i played rev the other day and i could just stop people from capping camp by constantly running rounds, they cant mount up they cant catch me they cant do anything at the end i was the one winning the fight cus i just kept running untill reinforcement came.

> yay the joy?

>

> warclaw needs speed nerf to the point a swiftness character has equal speed to warclaw, why should HoT/Core players not be able to play WvW proper?

> HP nerf

> remove 1 dodge bar (if it was up to me 2 of them 1 dodge enough :))

> no CC immunity

>

> do the above 4 things and u got it balanced.

>

>

> o btw i never really had problem getting 1 banged by mesmer/thief, yes im thief main im kitten thief also according to you hiding all day long.

> nope i barely ever used hide on my thief actually i was roaming on staff thief so no point to hide all the time.

> there is no thief/mesmer in perma hide waiting along road for you to pass by they saw you, most of the time u could have seen them also u could predict a attack coming u could prepare but u didnt.

>

> this is like me saying well i play thief and well i run backwards over map and everytime a big fat blob runs over me.

> give me a mount to run faster backwards and has like 200k hp so i can survive and can keep roaming...

> u need pay attention to your surroundings this why i dont understand some people, if u dont wanna pay attention go play PvE in PvP games u always need keep your eyes open for anything.

>

> for record ofcourse i play scourge also ones in a while and again i never had problem being ganked so bad by thief or mesmer, maybe u should try play thief/mesmer know the play style know their weakness play with it.

> thief is actually not so hard to keep away from you as scourge but since most scourges go like this F1 F2 F3 F4 F5 run run > get ganked by thief again > heal > spam some shades again > die by thief.

>

> why would u spam shades? thief is like a freaking paper he wont come near u when u poo out dmg, put marks under your kitten not all of them cus first mark he will dodge so use mark 2? or 4? one of them has low cd let him dodge then pop marks under your kitten or maybe even wells.

> yes a good thief wont die from scourge but he will most likely kitten off cus ur not being the easy quick kill he was hoping to get.

>

>

> gw2 isnt that hard if thief/mesmer are your problem its because youre that quick and easy kill for them you should just wait for your commander to return so u can hide deep in ur blob safe from these kitten thiefs / mesmers / rangers also i suppose?

 

as far as i've seen roaming is mostly fine since the change, it's gankers whom are mostly affected. you can stop projecting

[Duckota.4769]

> @"derd.6413" said:

> > @"reddie.5861" said:

> > > @"derd.6413" said:

> > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > > > @"DemonSeed.3528" said:

> > > > > Mounts could be changed into a timed summon - 10-15s per summon with 5-8s CD. This is enough to get to their destination whilst giving a sense of urgency and risk still, and people have more chance to catch them instead of the mount running circles around groups of people or singles trying to stop them.

> > > > If we just want mounts to be a travel tool, automatic dismount on entering combat end of story. Much simpler implementation than any cds.

> > > >

> > >

> > > or ppl could try to adapt to the changes instead of crying to the forums that their deadeye/mesmer can no longer one shot ppl uninterested in small scale fights (and don't have the build/gear to do so anyway)

> >

> > do small scale fights even exist nowadays?

> > warclaw has destroyed it for glass cannon classes and dont give me kitten that it didnt.

> > i play thief main i cant do a kitten to stop some1 from getting off his mount.

> >

> > i played rev the other day and i could just stop people from capping camp by constantly running rounds, they cant mount up they cant catch me they cant do anything at the end i was the one winning the fight cus i just kept running untill reinforcement came.

> > yay the joy?

> >

> > warclaw needs speed nerf to the point a swiftness character has equal speed to warclaw, why should HoT/Core players not be able to play WvW proper?

> > HP nerf

> > remove 1 dodge bar (if it was up to me 2 of them 1 dodge enough :))

> > no CC immunity

> >

> > do the above 4 things and u got it balanced.

> >

> >

> > o btw i never really had problem getting 1 banged by mesmer/thief, yes im thief main im kitten thief also according to you hiding all day long.

> > nope i barely ever used hide on my thief actually i was roaming on staff thief so no point to hide all the time.

> > there is no thief/mesmer in perma hide waiting along road for you to pass by they saw you, most of the time u could have seen them also u could predict a attack coming u could prepare but u didnt.

> >

> > this is like me saying well i play thief and well i run backwards over map and everytime a big fat blob runs over me.

> > give me a mount to run faster backwards and has like 200k hp so i can survive and can keep roaming...

> > u need pay attention to your surroundings this why i dont understand some people, if u dont wanna pay attention go play PvE in PvP games u always need keep your eyes open for anything.

> >

> > for record ofcourse i play scourge also ones in a while and again i never had problem being ganked so bad by thief or mesmer, maybe u should try play thief/mesmer know the play style know their weakness play with it.

> > thief is actually not so hard to keep away from you as scourge but since most scourges go like this F1 F2 F3 F4 F5 run run > get ganked by thief again > heal > spam some shades again > die by thief.

> >

> > why would u spam shades? thief is like a freaking paper he wont come near u when u poo out dmg, put marks under your kitten not all of them cus first mark he will dodge so use mark 2? or 4? one of them has low cd let him dodge then pop marks under your kitten or maybe even wells.

> > yes a good thief wont die from scourge but he will most likely kitten off cus ur not being the easy quick kill he was hoping to get.

> >

> >

> > gw2 isnt that hard if thief/mesmer are your problem its because youre that quick and easy kill for them you should just wait for your commander to return so u can hide deep in ur blob safe from these kitten thiefs / mesmers / rangers also i suppose?

>

> as far as i've seen roaming is mostly fine since the change, it's gankers whom are mostly affected. you can stop projecting

 

Id say roaming is in the trash can as well.

[Wafu.9247]

.redacted.

[derd.6413]

> @"Wafu.9247" said:

> All these people complaining about getting 'ganked' like they arent playing a player v player game mode smh, its the risk you take when running a zerg build . People are just going to adapt their builds/strategies more for warclaw and ganking will be fine

 

true, but 1) could they adapt without crying on the forums about how anet needs to delete the mount first.

 

and secondly: when they adapt, the exchanges between zerglings and gankers will be less one sided.

[Dadnir.5038]

I'm pretty sure roamers also have access to the mount so there is no such thing as unfairness. Anyway, just relax guys, ANet will surely soon give you a gold sink that will counter the mount. I'd bet on a WvW trap blueprint that dismount traped players.

[sephiroth.4217]

> @"derd.6413" said:

> > @"Wafu.9247" said:

> > All these people complaining about getting 'ganked' like they arent playing a player v player game mode smh, its the risk you take when running a zerg build . People are just going to adapt their builds/strategies more for warclaw and ganking will be fine

>

> true, but 1) could they adapt without crying on the forums about how anet needs to delete the mount first.

>

> and secondly: when they adapt, the exchanges between zerglings and gankers will be less one sided.

 

maybe not so much delete the mount but certainly allow for CC and such..

That would go a long way for build diversity as I could use Tempest again to CC someone off thier mount.

[Inoki.6048]

Skillfully roaming and ganking are two separate things.

 

Ganking has nothing to do with skill. Quite the contrary, it's the sheer display of weakness, when one needs a group of many to fight few to feel stronger or more confident, or as in most cases, fight a single player to be able to beat them.

 

I often laugh when I meet 2 opponents whilst roaming alone, they run when they see me, but come back when they are 4, or 5, 6+, and never ever do they dare to fight you with even or slightly uneven numbers which you don't mind.

 

Gankers are pathetic. Everyone knows it. They like to call whatever they are doing team play, but what that really looks like is compensating for whatever real life frustrations they may have, or just sheer sadism.

 

With Warclaw people are forced to engage in combat against those willing and prepared for a fight, not compensate on those who don't or are not interested. The closest thing I can think of when I think about ganking is cyberbullying, and commend ANet on imposing measures to combat it. Just as it should be combated in real life, in schools e.g., it should be prevented in games as a game is equally a social environment that should not foster toxicity in any form. Ganking is toxic game play.

[Teratus.2859]

> @"Duckota.4769" said:

> > @"Teratus.2859" said:

> > > @"Magnuzone.8395" said:

> > > Play against ppl who are interested in fighting you, problem solved. Noone likes a ganker.

> >

> > Agreed, ganking and stealth ambushes are 2 reasons I never cared for WvW.

> > It can still happen in the gamemode but at least the mobility gap between classes has been diminished thanks to the mount.

> > Now everyone has the freedom to choose to fight or flight rather than being forced into it constantly by classes that can easily get away from you when you gain the upper hand thanks to a cheap mechanical advantage.. stealth and shadowstep/teleports.

> >

> > It hasn't killed these tactics.. it's just made them more difficult to pull of solo and that's a good thing.

> > WvW should never be an easy place for a solo player to go around killing.. it's a massive multiplayer pvp game mode for a reason.

>

> You are talking about the classes with the lowest sustain. You do realize that right? Thief is the worst profession in the game 1v1 imo. They have mobility because they lack elsewhere. The fact you weren't able to keep up with them tells me you likely played a class more than capable of dealing with them. People seem to not believe that mobility is an important factor when balancing.

 

Yes but you don't need sustain when you can stunlock someone to death from behind within a couple of seconds and have almost 100% success rate at running away if your ambush fails while your victim has no way to get away from you aside from forcing you to run by turning the tide.

 

The Warclaw only makes it more difficult for you to trap someone in combat.. once they're locked in they can't remount and flee.

a couple of thieves are still more than capable of pulling off gank ambushes even on a mounted player.

[nxsage.6578]

It's really sad to watch PVE plebs talk about gankers, if you get ganked while running to your zerg..grow up and learn from your mistakes, think about what you could've done differently to survive that encounter and if you can't, stick with a group that will carry you.

But please, don't talk about roaming.. Roaming isn't just about ganking, there's a certain thrill and skill involved in taking outnumbered fights and the warclaw just ruins that experience.

What's the point of building mobility or even playing roaming classes or coming up with new builds if mounted players are 3x faster than you, immune to cc and have 10k+ hp?

You don't get a cookie for being at last place in a race.. You either catch up or move to a different game. If you just want to tag mobs and run around without getting killed, I'm sure there are champ trains in Queensdale.

I don't want roaming to die, I'm sad that a lot of my friends are leaving because they don't trust ANET to make the right changes. The worst part is that there isn't any work-around or adapting for roamers..roaming is pointless with mounts because it comes down to who's in combat and who isn't in combat..and that shouldn't be the deciding factor of who wins that fight.