Remove Demolisher amulet

[Ralkuth.1456]

> @"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

> Well yeah nerf 4-stat amulets

 

>! im just going to drop all pretense of reason and point out that i believe the main cause of problems in my games is because of certain stat combinations and not because of traits or class matchup indeed surely with the removal of all 4-stat amulets my prospects will improve because clearly players dont know how to build around what is given to grant themselves the edge and soon enough i will come back with requests to nerf 3-stat amulets with any defensive stats on them

>!

>! and i shall ignore the fact that with stats spread over 4 attributes the effectiveness of those attributes decrease significantly to the point that 4-stat amulets will basically be completely pointless oh you guessed it maybe im smartly indirectly vouching for the removal of everything except 3-stat amulets

>!

>! because kitten you and your progress watch me kitten regress

 

After your rather succinct reasoning I find all defensive stats disgusting, and I also abhor all secondary stats, I think it is the main reason I lose games.

No this isn't about you this is entirely about me and how dare you not pay attention to me.

My claims are more important.

 

I still propose we remove all other amulets beside Berzerker's Amulet.

>! because it benefits my build

>! oh yeah can we increase the stats on that too

[Master Ketsu.4569]

> @"Ralkuth.1456" said:

> Smoking is a habit -- it is made to keep me happy and it's clear my job supports this addiction. Condition amulets are too tanky while being able to boast a lot of condition damage, which is ridiculous. It has defensive stats coupled with the condition damage, which is simply ridiculous. Classes with at least 15k HP will have no problem sustaining at all. Absolutely ridiculous. Despite this, they are able to do significant damage, which is beyond ridiculous.

>

> ???

>

> I propose we remove all other amulets beside Berzerker's Amulet.

>

> >! No, I'm not salty. I think the problem is with the traits however, and not the stats.

 

That's more of a game design problem with condition damage as a stat than specific stat combinations.

 

Power requires 3 stats to be decent - Condi only requires one. This is why pretty much every condi bunker build that exists or has ever existed since release has been low-risk high-reward braindead cancer. Rather than address this design mistake directly, anet opted to remove the better condi amulets from PvP and give everyone lots of condi clear.

[Ralkuth.1456]

> @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

>

> That's more of a game design problem with condition damage as a stat than specific stat combinations.

>

> Power requires 3 stats to be decent - Condi only requires one. This is why pretty much every condi bunker build that exists or has ever existed since release has been low-risk high-reward braindead cancer. Rather than address this design mistake directly, anet opted to remove the better condi amulets from PvP and give everyone lots of condi clear.

 

I was trying to be sarcastic about the OP's initial post where it just states facts about the Demolisher Amulet and expects us to be outraged just from knowing how it has Power/Precision/Ferocity... and Toughness! Wow! It just seems to me that if this demand is met, then the excuse will move onto other stat combinations, like Demolisher's cousin Marauder... then all we will have left is Berzerker (slippery slope fallacy).

 

Maybe I should lean back a bit and regard both the stats design and the traits design as flawed.

 

The talk about Condition damage was to highlight how *ridiculous* it sounds to be directing blame at defensive stats on amulets in general (only that, and not other factors in sPvP), and I did not intend for it to be a jab at condition damage, but perhaps it was not the best analogy for this situation.

The design of condition damage, as you say, only requires 1 stat - and the rest is setup so you can live to see the conditions through. This led to double-defensive amulets like Dire which when combined with the design of the condition system made it horrible to fight against (but very "enjoyable" to play as).

 

We can also admire the fact that we have Nomad/Minstrel stats as combinations which if introduced (never) will allow us to kill our opponents through sheer despair induction factor.

[LolLookAtMyAP.8394]

> @"Ralkuth.1456" said:

> > @"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

> > Well yeah nerf 4-stat amulets

>

> >! im just going to drop all pretense of reason and point out that i believe the main cause of problems in my games is because of certain stat combinations and not because of traits or class matchup indeed surely with the removal of all 4-stat amulets my prospects will improve because clearly players dont know how to build around what is given to grant themselves the edge and soon enough i will come back with requests to nerf 3-stat amulets with any defensive stats on them

> >!

> >! and i shall ignore the fact that with stats spread over 4 attributes the effectiveness of those attributes decrease significantly to the point that 4-stat amulets will basically be completely pointless oh you guessed it maybe im smartly indirectly vouching for the removal of everything except 3-stat amulets

> >!

> >! because kitten you and your progress watch me kitten regress

>

> After your rather succinct reasoning I find all defensive stats disgusting, and I also abhor all secondary stats, I think it is the main reason I lose games.

> No this isn't about you this is entirely about me and how dare you not pay attention to me.

> My claims are more important.

>

> I still propose we remove all other amulets beside Berzerker's Amulet.

> >! because it benefits my build

> >! oh yeah can we increase the stats on that too

 

Add up the numbers from 4-stat amulets and 3-stat amulets. Talk about equality!

[Falan.1839]

Why the fuck would you want to remove Demolisher, you still can get literally OneShot with it. Remove all passive lifesavers, then remove all passives so we can all play OneShot one trick poney builds? Go play Counterstrike and so some Headshots, at least there you need skill for it...

[LolLookAtMyAP.8394]

We should also remove Mender's. Avatar amulet and Sage are good options with offense, and FB is too strong in the game right now.

[XenoSpyro.1780]

I did rough testing on toughness amulets with a friend and calculated that 540 is effectively 10% DR; 900 is 20% and 1200 is 30%. For as much resist as you have, you lose twice as much in damage. Anybody complaining about Toughness being too strong probably drank one too many bloodstone mochas.

[Ryan.9387]

> @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > @"Ralkuth.1456" said:

> > Smoking is a habit -- it is made to keep me happy and it's clear my job supports this addiction. Condition amulets are too tanky while being able to boast a lot of condition damage, which is ridiculous. It has defensive stats coupled with the condition damage, which is simply ridiculous. Classes with at least 15k HP will have no problem sustaining at all. Absolutely ridiculous. Despite this, they are able to do significant damage, which is beyond ridiculous.

> >

> > ???

> >

> > I propose we remove all other amulets beside Berzerker's Amulet.

> >

> > >! No, I'm not salty. I think the problem is with the traits however, and not the stats.

>

> That's more of a game design problem with condition damage as a stat than specific stat combinations.

>

> Power requires 3 stats to be decent - Condi only requires one. This is why pretty much every condi bunker build that exists or has ever existed since release has been low-risk high-reward braindead cancer. Rather than address this design mistake directly, anet opted to remove the better condi amulets from PvP and give everyone lots of condi clear.

 

Two stats. Three if you are reliant on "on crit" effects.

[ArthurDent.9538]

I think all amulets except celestial should be removed :)

[Ralkuth.1456]

> @"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

>

> Add up the numbers from 4-stat amulets and 3-stat amulets. Talk about equality!

 

Right, I'm sure it's an amazing discovery that 4-stat amulets have an additional 10% stats, and Celestial amulet has a shocking +22% total attribute amount for no reason at all except to defy equality. And how have we all been blind to this atrocious discrepancy for so long!

And I see your argument went from just Demolisher to all (16 in total) 4-stat amulets, I guess that a +1500% increase in your thread value isn't alarming to you at all?

 

Poor amulets deserve more equality and I think you need to make a thread for each individually.

[otto.5684]

> @"XenoSpyro.1780" said:

> I did rough testing on toughness amulets with a friend and calculated that 540 is effectively 10% DR; 900 is 20% and 1200 is 30%. For as much resist as you have, you lose twice as much in damage. Anybody complaining about Toughness being too strong probably drank one too many bloodstone mochas.

 

Where do I get these. They seem really good. Blood stone fen? ?

[Falan.1839]

Just remove all Amulets and play without gearstats.

[Mr Godlike.6098]

As we are moving away from one-shot meta and the strongest condi builds seems irrelevant (scourge/mirage) in Atm it's natural that more and more builds will jump on demolisher amulet as general pvp rules with defensive stats are:

vs condi -> vitality+condi cleanse

vs power-> toughness+healing power

 

Instead of removing amulets let's look at mechanics that can be unfairly abused with toughness like protection and resistance up time. Let's not forget about differences with HP pools and armor classes.

[Zenix.6198]

> @"Ralkuth.1456" said:

> > @"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

> >

> > Add up the numbers from 4-stat amulets and 3-stat amulets. Talk about equality!

>

> Right, I'm sure it's an amazing discovery that 4-stat amulets have an additional 10% stats, and Celestial amulet has a shocking +22% total attribute amount for no reason at all except to defy equality. And how have we all been blind to this atrocious discrepancy for so long!

> And I see your argument went from just Demolisher to all (16 in total) 4-stat amulets, I guess that a +1500% increase in your thread value isn't alarming to you at all?

>

> Poor amulets deserve more equality and I think you need to make a thread for each individually.

 

3stat amulets have 3000 total stats.

4stat amulets have 3220 total stats. Which is ~7% more

Celestial also has 3220 total stats.

[Ralkuth.1456]

> @"Zenix.6198" said:

>

> 3stat amulets have 3000 total stats.

> 4stat amulets have 3220 total stats. Which is ~7% more

> Celestial also has 3220 total stats.

 

That's me for not doing my research properly.

No actually I was using the stats of the Celestial amulet when it was OP (not 460 per stat but 560, thus the 22% gain... over the 7% gain).

RIP.

 

[Eddbopkins.2630]

Id do and dont want this amulet gone.

I do because it is very base stat dependent. As many stated if you have more then 16k this ammy is great, to great. It offers high damage and high defence.

But for light classes like ele, thf, fighting against this ammy is nothing but a handicap.

The real problem stems from unequal base stats for all classes in pvp. Lets take almost any other fighting game and pit 2 character against each other. They both will have the same amount of hp to start off with but some may hit harder or take less damage, but they all start off with the same amount of hp. If you look at gw2 you have one toon whos hp starts at 11k and then you have another that starts at 17k. Right off the bat, if i was a betting man id put 1000 dollars on the 17k man. If i had knowledge of the game whitch i do id see that demolishers ammy is to strong for some classes. And others cant even dream of using it.

[Ralkuth.1456]

> @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> Id do and dont want this amulet gone.

> I do because it is very base stat dependent. As many stated if you have more then 16k this ammy is great, to great. It offers high damage and high defence.

> But for light classes like ele, thf, fighting against this ammy is nothing but a handicap.

> The real problem stems from unequal base stats for all classes in pvp. Lets take almost any other fighting game and pit 2 character against each other. They both will have the same amount of hp to start off with but some may hit harder or take less damage, but they all start off with the same amount of hp. If you look at gw2 you have one toon whos hp starts at 11k and then you have another that starts at 17k. Right off the bat, if i was a betting man id put 1000 dollars on the 17k man. If i had knowledge of the game whitch i do id see that demolishers ammy is to strong for some classes. And others cant even dream of using it.

 

Class-based amulets?

[incisorr.9502]

Today out of 10 games i've been in 7 or so games with 6+ people using demolisher's amulet

 

arena net sure knows how to balance things owo. better nerf condi every single patch until we're left with only classes that can abuse demo amulet and nothing else

 

if condi wasn;'t as weak and nonexistent as it is now, this amulet wouldnt be such big problem

[otto.5684]

> @"incisorr.9502" said:

> Today out of 10 games i've been in 7 or so games with 6+ people using demolisher's amulet

>

> arena net sure knows how to balance things owo. better nerf condi every single patch until we're left with only classes that can abuse demo amulet and nothing else

>

> if condi wasn;'t as weak and nonexistent as it is now, this amulet wouldnt be such big problem

 

Lack of effective condi builds is a huge problem. But part of the issue is also damage levels. Since power damage levels are so high, most classes with built in sustainability prefer demolisher. It gives them the ability to reduce incoming damage at not that high damage output drop. This is why there is an army of warriors and engi in sPvP now. Also, chrono tanks.

 

On the other side you have few one shot builds left. But that is pretty much it.

 

Anet surely wanted to reduce overall damage, since it was the primary complain for last 6-8 month. But if you do not understand what causes the issues, there is a good chance your supposed fixes, not only will miss the mark, but also make things worse. Last 2 balance patches were an obsolete regress in overall sPvP balance.

[zoopop.5630]

> @"incisorr.9502" said:

> Today out of 10 games i've been in 7 or so games with 6+ people using demolisher's amulet

>

> arena net sure knows how to balance things owo. better nerf condi every single patch until we're left with only classes that can abuse demo amulet and nothing else

>

> if condi wasn;'t as weak and nonexistent as it is now, this amulet wouldnt be such big problem

 

Condi Mirage still being played and wrecking through pugs in rank/unrank.

 

You complain to much for no real reason.

[otto.5684]

> @"zoopop.5630" said:

> > @"incisorr.9502" said:

> > Today out of 10 games i've been in 7 or so games with 6+ people using demolisher's amulet

> >

> > arena net sure knows how to balance things owo. better nerf condi every single patch until we're left with only classes that can abuse demo amulet and nothing else

> >

> > if condi wasn;'t as weak and nonexistent as it is now, this amulet wouldnt be such big problem

>

> Condi Mirage still being played and wrecking through pugs in rank/unrank.

>

> You complain to much for no real reason.

 

I think you are confusing player skill with build effectiveness. I have been playing core warrior, berserker amulet, axe/axe and sword/shield, and wrecking it. I am confident this is not due to this build being good (it is borderline terrible) but cuz I am skilled enough. And in games where I play with equally skilled opponents, I perform poorly.

 

Just cuz there are some Condi Mirages out there that can do very well, that does not mean the build performs well. As it stands it surely does not.

[Twilight Tempest.7584]

> @"otto.5684" said:

> Last 2 balance patches were an obsolete regress in overall sPvP balance.

 

But they gutted condi-Mirage so s'all good amirite? /s

[zoopop.5630]

> @"otto.5684" said:

> > @"zoopop.5630" said:

> > > @"incisorr.9502" said:

> > > Today out of 10 games i've been in 7 or so games with 6+ people using demolisher's amulet

> > >

> > > arena net sure knows how to balance things owo. better nerf condi every single patch until we're left with only classes that can abuse demo amulet and nothing else

> > >

> > > if condi wasn;'t as weak and nonexistent as it is now, this amulet wouldnt be such big problem

> >

> > Condi Mirage still being played and wrecking through pugs in rank/unrank.

> >

> > You complain to much for no real reason.

>

> I think you are confusing player skill with build effectiveness. I have been playing core warrior, berserker amulet, axe/axe and sword/shield, and wrecking it. I am confident this is not due to this build being good (it is borderline terrible) but cuz I am skilled enough. And in games where I play with equally skilled opponents, I perform poorly.

>

> Just cuz there are some Condi Mirages out there that can do very well, that does not mean the build performs well. As it stands it surely does not.

 

Condi Mirage In general Isn't hard to play and it's still very strong in Rank and Unrank. The build itself carries ALOT of bad players, The issue at the moment is that instead of axe you have to use Scepter which A lot of players dont like using because it's a bit clunky.

 

This Incisorr dude just complains about mirage in general being weak when it isn't lmfao. Condi Mirage > Warrior, Rifle Holo, Rev and Necro.

 

These classes beside warriors are some what limited to how much condi removal they have and wont last long vs the condi mirage at all....

[Twilight Tempest.7584]

> @"zoopop.5630" said:

> This Incisorr dude just complains about mirage in general being weak when it isn't lmfao. Condi Mirage > Warrior, Rifle Holo, Rev and Necro.

 

Assuming that by "warrior" you mean core and Berserker (because surely you don't mean Spellbreaker), and by Necro you mean all types, saying that condi-Mirage is only better than 6* out of 27 core and elite specializations in the game tends to prove the opposite of what you are implying.

 

*Didn't count Rifle Holo because that's a build, not a spec.

[zoopop.5630]

> @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said:

> > @"zoopop.5630" said:

> > This Incisorr dude just complains about mirage in general being weak when it isn't lmfao. Condi Mirage > Warrior, Rifle Holo, Rev and Necro.

>

> Assuming that by "warrior" you mean core and Berserker (because surely you don't mean Spellbreaker), and by Necro you mean all types, saying that condi-Mirage is only better than 6* out of 27 core and elite specializations in the game tends to prove the opposite of what you are implying.

>

> *Didn't count Rifle Holo because that's a build, not a spec.

 

No I mean Speall Breaker. You should Assume I'm talking about what's currently Meta/Being Played. You Won't see Core Warrior let alone Berserk in any competitive match up's unless your in low rank games/unrank games.