The Complete Rifle and Deadeye Fix Thread

[Asur.9178]

Nobody's going to mention the bug with mark and being downed?

[Zacchary.6183]

> @Asur.9178 said:

> Nobody's going to mention the bug with mark and being downed?

 

The thing is that it might be intended. I have not added it because nobody really knows what anet wanted to do with it. Mark applies a buff to you and a visual effect to the one you marked. However, you lose all buffs when downed. Since the malice generation is applied through a buff, it would make sense that being downed would completely negate that. It would be a good idea to inform Anet of some kind of change if this is an issue.

[babazhook.6805]

I think shadow meld a bit wonky when it comes to Improv resets because of the ammo system. I was tinkering with it as well and I THINK but am not certain that if IMPROV gets a cantrip reset , Shadow meld will not reset if you have one charge left as it not considered on cooldown.

[Zacchary.6183]

> @babazhook.6805 said:

> I think shadow meld a bit wonky when it comes to Improv resets because of the ammo system. I was tinkering with it as well and I THINK but am not certain that if IMPROV gets a cantrip reset , Shadow meld will not reset if you have one charge left as it not considered on cooldown.

 

To be technical, each use is on a 45s CD and one doesn't start until the other completes. Though it probably simply doesn't affect it because of the ammo system.

[Riddle.2714]

> @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> I've not had a problem with one shotting people without the stars aligning. It depends on how you build, which most people build to some sort of meta, instead of to their playstyle which would probably be a LOT stronger than a meta build. One of my favorite builds revolves around using traps, knock downs, and fast might stacking. Generally kills players in one or two stacks of malice.

 

That's why I said it won't hurt PvP much, compared to straight increase in overall damage. Perfect DJ are mostly accomplished during PvE where we had those dps race.

[Lyger.5429]

> @Zacchary.6183 said:

> > @Asur.9178 said:

> > Nobody's going to mention the bug with mark and being downed?

>

> The thing is that it might be intended. I have not added it because nobody really knows what anet wanted to do with it. Mark applies a buff to you and a visual effect to the one you marked. However, you lose all buffs when downed. Since the malice generation is applied through a buff, it would make sense that being downed would completely negate that. It would be a good idea to inform Anet of some kind of change if this is an issue.

 

Probably wouldn't hurt to mention it and see what they say.

[YOUNGaz.5690]

I've had a bug as well where an enemy dies right at the end of Mark's cast time and fails to proc Renewing Gaze. Mark will go on full cooldown but Malice will disappear and not generate. Happens not that often, seems the window is very small for it to do this.

 

Rest of the list looks good, I'd also add to Death's Retreat that with a target selected, it teleports away from the target instead of backwards relative to the direction your character is facing. Could be intended functionality but the tooltip suggests it should function the same way Withdraw or RFI should, relative to character's facing.

 

As for Mark lost when downed, I'm unsure if it's intended but I submitted it as bug in game anyway. I really, really want to believe devs wouldn't be so punishing to render so many skills, traits, entire builds, pretty much the entire elite spec and its mechanic and everything it offers, useless for the duration of cooldown of Mark when downed and res'd in a game that's so forgiving of being downed. Even if they wanted you to lose malice and start generating from 0 when up again, I can live with, but Mark disappearing all together is unacceptable and if it's a conscious decision, it needs to be changed. It's no fun and makes playing Deadeye potentially useless to take into any sort of coordinated group content if half your skills and traits don't work when you need them to.

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

> @Elxdark.9702 said:

>

> I'm really confused about Perfectionist because it has a 8s cd but it only procs once per mark, so why does it even have a cd? it makes no sense **unless** it was supposed to proc again...

 

I think it is to balance Cantrips just in case Improvisation resets its cooldown.

 

Picture this scenario;

- Apply Mark

- Kneel (stealth)

- DJ (revealed) - triggers Revealed Malice - Malice count 1 - time: 1 seconds

- Shadow Meld (stealth) - Malice count 2

- DJ (revealed) - triggers Revealed Malice - Malice count 3 - time: 3 seconds

- Shadow Meld (stealth) - Malice count 4

- Any Attack (revealed) - triggers Revealed Malice - Malice count Max - triggers Perfectionist - time: 4 seconds

- Mercy

 

If applying Mark resets Cantrips through Improv, you can rinse and repeat.

[Elxdark.9702]

> @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:

> > @Elxdark.9702 said:

> >

> > I'm really confused about Perfectionist because it has a 8s cd but it only procs once per mark, so why does it even have a cd? it makes no sense **unless** it was supposed to proc again...

>

> I think it is to balance Cantrips just in case Improvisation resets its cooldown.

>

> Picture this scenario;

> - Apply Mark

> - Kneel (stealth)

> - DJ (revealed) - triggers Revealed Malice - Malice count 1 - time: 1 seconds

> - Shadow Meld (stealth) - Malice count 2

> - DJ (revealed) - triggers Revealed Malice - Malice count 3 - time: 3 seconds

> - Shadow Meld (stealth) - Malice count 4

> - Any Attack (revealed) - triggers Revealed Malice - Malice count Max - triggers Perfectionist - time: 4 seconds

> - Mercy

>

> If applying Mark resets Cantrips through Improv, you can rinse and repeat.

 

You can't even do that because improv doesn't work on shadow meld lol...

 

But let's imagine you can do that, do you really think it makes sense? I'm not sure but I'm being logical here, why would they put a 8s cd for Perfecionist if it only procs once? it really doesn't make any sense. Its probably bugged because there's no way you make it proc twice between 8s.

 

Also your example isn't even possible because you will get the cd on improv in the first mark so mercy won't be able to proc improv in that case.

 

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

> @Elxdark.9702 said:

> > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:

> > > @Elxdark.9702 said:

> > >

> > > I'm really confused about Perfectionist because it has a 8s cd but it only procs once per mark, so why does it even have a cd? it makes no sense **unless** it was supposed to proc again...

> >

> > I think it is to balance Cantrips just in case Improvisation resets its cooldown.

> >

> > Picture this scenario;

> > - Apply Mark

> > - Kneel (stealth)

> > - DJ (revealed) - triggers Revealed Malice - Malice count 1 - time: 1 seconds

> > - Shadow Meld (stealth) - Malice count 2

> > - DJ (revealed) - triggers Revealed Malice - Malice count 3 - time: 3 seconds

> > - Shadow Meld (stealth) - Malice count 4

> > - Any Attack (revealed) - triggers Revealed Malice - Malice count Max - triggers Perfectionist - time: 4 seconds

> > - Mercy

> >

> > If applying Mark resets Cantrips through Improv, you can rinse and repeat.

>

> You can't even do that because improv doesn't work on shadow meld lol...

>

> But let's imagine you can do that, do you really think it makes sense? I'm not sure but I'm being logical here, why would they put a 8s cd for Perfecionist if it only procs once? it really doesn't make any sense. Its probably bugged because there's no way you make it proc twice between 8s.

>

> Also your example isn't even possible because you will get the cd on improv in the first mark so mercy won't be able to proc improv in that case.

>

 

Improv resets SM for me. It will not reset if you're in the ammo CD, which is 5s, but it resets if you're on the skill CD, which is 45s.

 

The ICD of Improv only triggers if it resets any skills (as far as I can tell at least), so it will not trigger on the first Mark when everything is out of CD. However, you are right, this will only work twice because of the ICD. In this case, yeah, it seems redundant with double ICDs.

[Xtinct.7031]

I do like the suggestion on increasing the stolen item condition application base duration and perhaps increasing the stacks on the damaging condition by +2 or so. Because at this moment deadeye has no real build diversity other than power.

[Maugetarr.6823]

For a quick fix in terms of numbers for rifle, I'd just like to see them bring the auto-attack multiplier up to 0.925 (Just over untraited DPS for Long Range Shot at max range and equal to the traited version) for kneeling, and 0.65 for standing (Equal to DPS of untraited Long Range Shot at closest Range). For mechanics, the easiest fix to tackle would be to make the autos pierce 1-2 targets. For more complicated redesigns, refer to my earlier post (if the devs read this for input before the next balance patch).

 

Edit: Slightly different suggestions in addition to the above:

 

Move Death's Retreat to the standing #3 weapon skill because virtually all of our in combat ports/evades/rolls on weapon skills are tied to #3. Put 3RB in the standing #4 slot. Put in a 600 range ground target shadowstep into kneeling #3 at maybe 4 initiative, instant cast to allow for some tricky plays.

[Zacchary.6183]

BTW if anyone has an idea on an alternative skill/fix to any of the rifle skills, I am all ears.

[Maugetarr.6823]

> @Zacchary.6183 said:

> BTW if anyone has an idea on an alternative skill/fix to any of the rifle skills, I am all ears.

 

1) Buff standing auto to 0.65, now pierces 1-2 targets

2) move Death's Retreat to the number 3 skill (fix pathing too)

3) Put 3RB in as the number 4 skill

4) Buff kneeling auto to 0.9-0.925, now pierces 1-2 targets

5) Buff Spotters Shot to 1.25

6) Add a backwards roll skill to kneeling 3 (evade 0.5 seconds total time 0.75 seconds, 4 initiative)

7) Snipers Cover made baseline over kneel

8) Moving/Dodging/Jumping breaks kneel

 

 

[Siltherium.3492]

God, this is going to be a big response:

 

> @Zacchary.6183 said:

> # Bug Fixes

 

I have experimented the following issue: If you mark a target, kill it, swap to another target quickly, kill it, and repeat this on a quick succession, the mark go bug and dont reset on kill, even if the target is done. It has happen to me between 5 and 10 times, but is unconsistently, so I couldn't add anything else to it.

 

> @Zacchary.6183 said:

> # Rifle Damage < Unload Damage

> * So let's give Rifle a 10-15% damage increase across the board. That would put Rifle standing skills just under or on par with p/p damage while giving Kneeling skills a clear damage advantage.

 

I'm agree with that. Rifle is supoused to be played arround Kneel, so if you are walking, the Damage shouldn't surpass the P/P one. But when you are kneel, the damage must be god enough to surpass any ranged weapon from Deadeye.

 

> @Zacchary.6183 said:

> # The New Stolen Skills

> This issue is actually something the all of the Deadeye's boon/condition skills have. The base durations are too low to be any degree of rewarding. Even with concentration stacked and malice, their durations are pitiful and do not warrant using a Deadeye for support in most situations.

 

I really like the stolen skills, expecially when you combine the double one from DA with the DE Traits, making them buff you and your allies with 20 power instantly. The point here is than the other buffs are utterly useless, except maybe Aegys. A longer Boon duration would be fine. I haven't tried Viper equipement to have a real opinipon about conditions.

 

> @Zacchary.6183 said:

> # Rifle 2, Both Standing and Kneeling

 

Here we are with the initiative cost problem. Rifle drain tons of initiative which makes that if the enemy avoid the damage somehow you are suppoused to retreat and wait until you ara capable to use your bigger skills again. This works in PvP and WvW in the fact that you are suppouse to be a sniper, and if you position is unsafe, you lock and load, take another position, and start again. I understand the "rol". But in PvE this means that the DPS sucks, coz a thief without initiative is nothing. So yeah: We need a mechanic to regain initiative with the rifle. Idk which one, but one.

 

> @Zacchary.6183 said:

> # Range Vs. Longbow Range and Common Sense

> The longbow and it's arc allows arrows to reach up to ~~2000~~ 1750 range even though the indicated range is 1500. This is stupid and very immersion breaking for a sniper to be outranged by a bow.

 

2000 range seems a bit extreme to me. I would be fine with a 1800 range on kneel. Idd, I find it very apropiate to the "sniper" stereotype class. Ranger is good as it is always than you can outranged then a "little" while we are still and they can move themselfs.

 

> @Zacchary.6183 said:

> # Mobility and Kneeling

> This is another player issue. As a sniper archetype, you are supposed to provide cover fire for your allies instead of directly engaging targets and pick out specific targets within enemy forces so the circumstance tilts in your team's favor. Deadeye forces this archetype through playstyle by suppressing mobility in exchange for damage. But let's pretend Rifle and the spec supposed to have mobility and "fix" it, because people seem to want to melee with it. Biggest complaint here is the kneel should be canceled upon jumping or dodge roll. While this is completely unnecessary, due to the fact that Kneel/Free Action is instant and **requires twitch reaction to use to it's full potential**, let's try to improve it along side Death's Retreat's cost anyway.

>

> * Allow jump to immediately cancel kneel without it cleansing movement impairing conditions like Free Action does... or you could just use free action **for it's free movement impairment cleanse.**

> * As for Death's Retreat, simply reduce the initiative cost by 1. It has less control and less range than SB 5 so why should it be as costly?

 

My only problem with Kneel is that you don't gain any kind of stability with the position. You are literaly on the ground level, you should be more stable. This would "fix" the main problem in WvW where you will get an Obstruction except you are at the very border of the cliff. Place where any other class can pull you and turn your "Deadeye" into a "Swolleneye".

[babazhook.6805]

As far as the boon durations go on stolen skill (along with condition durations) they are fine. I really do not think the consequences of extending them recognized.

 

Looking at the shortest duration boons and conditions just to make the point.

 

From the Revenant we get a very good damage skill and one of the more useful boons that being torment and Resistance.

 

Torment base is 8 seconds duration for three stacks. That is huge. The duration add is 20 percent per malice stack meaning at 5 malice stacks you are getting 16 seconds. Granted it cleansed before that but it hardly a low duration.

 

Reistance base is 3 seconds. That woukld seem low but with 5 malice stacks thats 6 seconds and that not low at all. With improv traited you can get 12 seconds resistance. If you maximize use via proper timing of mercy (wait till malice 5 use/use mercy reseat and repeat) you get access to another 12 seconds. Imagine if a single second added to this. It would become 8 base, then 16 then 24 then 32 this applyable to up to 5 allies.

 

It important to remember that no Concentration needed at all. You get this added boon duration via Malice and the same applies to Conditions. In PRE POF power builds many did not train expertise so the CC type conditions would have low durations. With no Expertise in the build at all in a build a power thief can get just ar load on 10 stacks vuln for 10 seconds aginst engineers which can be followed up by another with Improv traited. A single use of steal mobility off a ranger can get you a 2 sec immob with 6 seconds superspeed. This can really help you track them down if they flee. Again increase either of those times by a second and it becomes too much.

 

 

 

 

[Yureii.4236]

I personally think that the cast time for marking a target should be removed. Steal has no cast time, and removing the marks cast time would help with the fluidity and speed of the class' combat (refresh mark during a skill channel).

[Zenith.7301]

I don't want the weapons changed to have useless hybrid skills. Hybrid weapons suck in PvE, and dead eye should not be a condition spec. You already have condi daredevil and core thief for condi options.

 

Leave deadeye to be the power spec it should be.

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

id like to see some consistency on marking to gain specific items, not gain a random item each time from pve mobs. why cant we have it like this: mark while facing an enemy 90 degrees to steal speed, mark while marking from the right side to steal strength, mark from the left to steal their defense...would make more active combat and we can aim for what item we want!

[Maugetarr.6823]

A suggestion for the Deadeye trait line:

 

They could change up the marking and malice system to be a little bit more like adrenaline. Something like gaining 1 tick of malice each time you hit a target in combat with an ICD of 2 seconds. You also don't need to mark a target to start building malice, letting you save the mark for mug/SoH/ initiative gain for mid fight. You don't lose malice when your target dies, only when you get OOC, and then it degenerates at 1 tick a second. You deal 2% more damage per stack of malice, and 7% more damage to your marked target.

 

Edit; With this change Perfectionist and Maleficent Seven would need a minor addition.

 

Perfectionist: add "If you have 5 or more malice when you make a target gain boons when you mark the target" (same boons, duration, and ICD as currently.)

 

Maleficent Seven: Change the wording to Maleficent Seven heals you. Same idea, add "if you have 7 malice when you mark a target, maleficent seven heals you."

 

Proposed, but not necessary, addition for Be Quick or Be Killed with this rework: "Quickness duration is increased by 10% for each stack of malice you have" (making max duration 6 seconds).

 

[Elxdark.9702]

> @Maugetarr.6823 said:

> A suggestion for the Deadeye trait line:

>

> They could change up the marking and malice system to be a little bit more like adrenaline. Something like gaining 1 tick of malice each time you hit a target in combat with an ICD of 2 seconds. You also don't need to mark a target to start building malice, letting you save the mark for mug/SoH/ initiative gain for mid fight. You don't lose malice when your target dies, only when you get OOC, and then it degenerates at 1 tick a second. You deal 2% more damage per stack of malice, and 7% more damage to your marked target.

 

Malice decay has been asked by a lot of users including me, like you said it would be quite nice for it to work as adrenaline does for warriors.

[Maugetarr.6823]

> @Elxdark.9702 said:

> > @Maugetarr.6823 said:

> > A suggestion for the Deadeye trait line:

> >

> > They could change up the marking and malice system to be a little bit more like adrenaline. Something like gaining 1 tick of malice each time you hit a target in combat with an ICD of 2 seconds. You also don't need to mark a target to start building malice, letting you save the mark for mug/SoH/ initiative gain for mid fight. You don't lose malice when your target dies, only when you get OOC, and then it degenerates at 1 tick a second. You deal 2% more damage per stack of malice, and 7% more damage to your marked target.

>

> Malice decay has been asked by a lot of users including me, like you said it would be quite nice for it to work as adrenaline does for warriors.

 

I think it would help even out malice against multiple targets in all 3 game modes without having to increase the rate of gaining malice.

[kash.9213]

> @Elxdark.9702 said:

> > @Maugetarr.6823 said:

> > A suggestion for the Deadeye trait line:

> >

> > They could change up the marking and malice system to be a little bit more like adrenaline. Something like gaining 1 tick of malice each time you hit a target in combat with an ICD of 2 seconds. You also don't need to mark a target to start building malice, letting you save the mark for mug/SoH/ initiative gain for mid fight. You don't lose malice when your target dies, only when you get OOC, and then it degenerates at 1 tick a second. You deal 2% more damage per stack of malice, and 7% more damage to your marked target.

>

> Malice decay has been asked by a lot of users including me, like you said it would be quite nice for it to work as adrenaline does for warriors.

 

That's what's great about DD and Staff, it couples well with traits like acro with builds can feed itself by action where DE has some down time that can be filled.

[MakubeC.3026]

I think some great suggestion in here are:

 

1. Not losing all malice when marking the same target in a row. Make it decay at a greater rate after mark is over. Marking the same target stops the decay and triggers its regeneration.

2. Jumping breaks kneel. Kneels allows you to move 200 units without breaking for re position.

3. Mark is instant cast OR not affected by line of sight.

4. Sniper's cover is integrated with kneel.

5. One in the chamber is changed to something else.

6. Stolen kits have their effects enhanced.

 

My suggestions:

One in the chamber: When hitting a foe from x range on the side or the back, regain one Initiative.

Unforgiving: Hitting a foe from range on the side or the back will make your bullet ricochet once.

[Turk.5460]

One in the chamber is OK as a first tier trait if it were to be modified to include a 20% cooldown decrease on Cantrips.