Fractal Meta

Warscythes.9307 · April 15, 2019

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > > > @"Xxnecroxx.4039" said:

> > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > > > > > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:

> > > > > > > https://discretize.eu/builds

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Please realize, any of these builds will perform excellent. Even the "good" builds. The only reason the good builds are considered good and not meta is because they do not fit as perfectly into the meta setup. I can tell you from experience that both Daredevil and Power Reaper can top dps charts with minimal effort.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Power Reaper especially is very new player friendly since it has necromancers self-sustain while pushing very nice damage.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Mini Crinny.6190" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Xxnecroxx.4039" said:

> > > > > > > > > pretty much every class can be used in fractals well, even T100's and challenges etc

> > > > > > > > > well all except necro, never try to play necro into t100's etc, even in some T4's just don't bring a necro

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Except Necro is actually really good in fracs, but keep thinking like that.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Scourge is good in fractals. Reaper meh. Reaper doesn't have enough corrupts to take away the boons, enemies apply

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You really need to stop giving advice if you have no experience in the game mode. Power Reaper is a very strong, easy to play and safe power dps for fractals.

> > > > >

> > > > > but as someone else said, yes you CAN play power reaper, but you can play another class and easily get more value from it, more damage, boons, utility, etc. necro brings nothing that useful to the table that you cant just have another class do and still have it outperform the necro. unless you are in a bad group and you play necro PERFECTLY you will be lacking in damage.

> > > >

> > > > Yes, and if all players were skilled enough to play their classes well, this would not be an issue.

> > > >

> > > > Given the average skill level of most players in T4 (and even some on CMs), I guarantee you a good power reaper will outperform all of them. I've seen Power Reapers outperform good Dragonhunters. The class is insanely easy to play. Again, the only reason it's not considered meta is because other classes are just slightly better (in a good players hands).

> > >

> > > Sorry but: this should never happen.

> > > And reaper isn't as easy as you might think.

> > >

> > > A friend of mine is support chrono main. He can even do the fresh air weaver rotation (that's much more complicated than reapers rotation in my opinion) yet he barely gets to 23k DPS on the golem with reaper.

> > >

> > > If you say, that in pug groups a well played reaper is better than a mediocre played weaver (just an example).

> > > You assume here a very well played reaper. But how do you know, that the reaper player is good? #nooffens

> > > And let's be honest. A mediocre played reaper is worse than a mediocre played dragon hunter.

> > >

> > > U need cc? Just save the elite trap on DH

> > > U need cc on reaper? Yes reaper has more cc than DH, but it's harder to get to these cc skills and use them properly in you rotation.

> > >

> > > Reaper isn't as noob-friendly as you might think. Especially with the most recent nerfs to sustain and the most recent changes with soul barbs.

> > > Also knowing when (and especially how) to destroy your minions so they don't get you infight is a big point on playing necro.

> > >

> > > Yes I might not have played fractals for 2 months now. But literally nothing changed for the most classes since I last played fracs.

> > >

> > > >

> > > > The same goes for Daredevil. A good Daredevil will outperform a decent Dragonhunter or other dps. Let's not even mention weaver.

> > >

> >

> > Yes, so let me get this strait:

> > - https://discretize.eu/ , basically the snowcrows for fractals with even overlapping players explains and names the necromancer good (1 tier below meta)

>

> Actually it's 2 tiers below meta, if you'd look correctly. It's only mentioned as a good build. Right after the meta and great builds.

>

> Basically it's just snowcrows build copied! Not even having the latest build. (I don't want to make their site bad)

> Great let me quote from their site:

>

> "However, large amounts of self-produced Vulnerability, Quickness and Might will allow this build to perform well as a "solo carry" build that suffers less from underperforming teammates and heavily rewards a skilled user." - but if you have decent teammates, other classes will do better than reaper.

>

> "The Power Reaper build, while not one of the strongest in terms of DPS, is a versatile build that can modify itself to suit a variety of scenarios without many issues."

>

> They even point out a bloodmagic variant, but don't mention that

> 1. This will let you dmg drop by a noticeable amount

> 2. Without mentioning the wells trait

>

> But good reapers will know. So let's not care about that right? - wrong! People asking how certain builds are doing either aren't mains of that class or look into high level play of these classes for the first time.

> So you have to assume they aren't reaper god's.

> But you are comparing those very good players to average players, assuming that all Necro players are automatically necro gods.

>

> > - there is speed clear fractal videos on youtube clearly showing power reaper being top dps or very very close as far back as 8 months and more (before the buffs in the last 6 months patches)

>

> Didn't find a single video, where reaper was taken for Speedclear and was top DPS.

>

> > - people who clear fractals daily as well as CMs (like myself) have seen reaper perform on the level I have explained which correlates with what high skill players say

> >

> > Yet you, a self admitted not fractal T4 active player, know better. Reaper was strong 8 months ago, it has been buffed since then. I'm sorry, I won't waste time on convincing forum warriors of facts. If you want to stay in your little self-pity bubble, that's fine by me. It is not reflected in the class.

>

> Buffs for reaper?

> August 2018 reaper reciever like a 10% overall dmg buff.

> After that:

> are you thinking at the buffs, that were made to compensate for the dmg loss reaper had, from getting dmg nerfs, which ended up reaper doing almost the same DPS than before?

> Sorry but you got no point here.

>

> >

> > The reason DH is superior to reaper has hardly to do with cc... to even suggest this. Sad. DH is superior to Reaper due to: reflects, stability, aegis on demand and higher burst. CC is not even part of the equation. DH is among the classes with the highest ability to adapt currently, if people make the effort.

>

> I was only pointing out one strength that reaper has over DH, as an example.

> Now even you are saying that DH is stronger than reaper xD.

> That's pretty inconsistent of you.

>

> And I never said, that reaper is bad. I said that there are (way) better classes even right now (power reaper seems to be in the best spot since hot launch)

> Quote from discretize: "The Power Dragonhunter is currently a good and easy to play build for fractals."

>

> If You compare that to the reaper description, you have to be way smarter when playing reaper.

>

> So again: it's not the easiest class to play. But. I think I'm gonna stop discussing with you here and now.

> As you showed you have only very little knowledge about the balance that happened since your mentioned time.

>

I can answer reaper buffs.

There were 3 changes that affected reaper in general from last patch.

Nightfall: Increased the damage of this skill by 50% in PvE only.

Cold Shoulder: Increased the amount of bonus damage that this trait grants from 10% to 15% in PvE only.

Reduced all banners' stat gains from 170 to 100 at level 80.

I know people here scoffed at the nightfall buff, but that is actually about 2%~ increase because you get couple ticks in shroud with +600 ferocity.

Most important is the banner nerf, power reaper is probably the least affected class because we overcap crit by a huge amount. Every other class suffered a hit while reaper is barely affected. Yes Reaper still bench roughly the same amount(30.4k~) as before, but all the other classes has been brought down by significant amount.

Agrippa Oculus.3726 · April 15, 2019

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > @"Xxnecroxx.4039" said:

> > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:

> > > > https://discretize.eu/builds

> > >

> > > This.

> > >

> > > Please realize, any of these builds will perform excellent. Even the "good" builds. The only reason the good builds are considered good and not meta is because they do not fit as perfectly into the meta setup. I can tell you from experience that both Daredevil and Power Reaper can top dps charts with minimal effort.

> > >

> > > Power Reaper especially is very new player friendly since it has necromancers self-sustain while pushing very nice damage.

> > >

> > > > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > > > > @"Mini Crinny.6190" said:

> > > > > > @"Xxnecroxx.4039" said:

> > > > > > pretty much every class can be used in fractals well, even T100's and challenges etc

> > > > > > well all except necro, never try to play necro into t100's etc, even in some T4's just don't bring a necro

> > > > >

> > > > > Except Necro is actually really good in fracs, but keep thinking like that.

> > > >

> > > > Scourge is good in fractals. Reaper meh. Reaper doesn't have enough corrupts to take away the boons, enemies apply

> > >

> > > You really need to stop giving advice if you have no experience in the game mode. Power Reaper is a very strong, easy to play and safe power dps for fractals.

> >

> > but as someone else said, yes you CAN play power reaper, but you can play another class and easily get more value from it, more damage, boons, utility, etc. necro brings nothing that useful to the table that you cant just have another class do and still have it outperform the necro. unless you are in a bad group and you play necro PERFECTLY you will be lacking in damage.

>

> Yes, and if all players were skilled enough to play their classes well, this would not be an issue.

>

> Given the average skill level of most players in T4 (and even some on CMs), I guarantee you a good power reaper will outperform all of them. I've seen Power Reapers outperform good Dragonhunters. The class is insanely easy to play. Again, the only reason it's not considered meta is because other classes are just slightly better (in a good players hands).

>

> The same goes for Daredevil. A good Daredevil will outperform a decent Dragonhunter or other dps. Let's not even mention weaver.

It's funny how you always say how good the Necro (in this case the Reaper) performs in the PvE endgame, while it's literally, factually capped by actual proven numbers, DPS-wise. So you want to prove the community otherwise, by coming up with anecdotal stories, how good this Reaper was this one time and even that other time ...

Because I'd like to find the good in all people, I just presume your motive is to tell the (PUGing) community (here) that we should finally stop shaming the Necro, because they're not all that bad! A noble pursuit ( :+1: )

But on the other hand, you do fondly keep the rumour up on how **easy** the Necro is to play. Which is in it's very nature a very subjective thing to say, and which only fuels the resistance in accepting the Necro in the PvE endgame. I'm not particularly in favor of anecdotal argumentation myself, but, like I said, such a subjective argument is very hard to proof with _real_ evidence anyway, so here I go. Let me compare a few DPS builds out there (per class):

- Sword Weaver: .... very easy to get higher numbers out in no-time than the Necro can ever even reach ... definitely not THAT hard to master when you choose the Bolt to the Heart variant. Hell, I will even go out of my way here: easier to master its rotation than the Power Reaper's (because of encounter consistencies (no faster depleting Shroud, etc.), and again, higher DPS!!!

- Same counts for Daredevil AND Deadeye. I don't have to explain those, I assume. Those rotations are really braindead.

- Soulbeast ... easy (try it, you'll be amazed) to get some real good numbers out of it ... again, far higher than the Reaper can ever reach! Ow and far more superior than Reaper in general, cause it can actually provide valuable support to the group, while maintaining high dps.

- Is it self sufficient builds you want: maybe not the easiest to play (but again, that's highly subjective), the Chrono is the one that is (f)actually **the** most self-sufficient. Ow and if you master it ... it literally laughs at DPS numbers a Reaper can produce!

- Dragonhunter: easy rotation, more DPS, and like you said yourself, more valuable to the group! And if you want to be _far_ more supportive to the whole group and do comparable in real situations DPS to that of a Power Reaper (let me repeat that **with far** more group support), try the power (you don't even have to go condi here) Firebrand, which pretty much has the same if not easier rotation.

- Warrior ... even _with_ Banners they do about the same, if not more DPS than the Reaper. And how easy it is to play ... don't get me started! I mean, with my eyes closed. Want some more active play, try Spellbreaker ... actually better in Boon-hate than the Reaper (wow, you say, but yea, really!), _and_ providing better support and about the same DPS ... ow wait, we're not there yet: also having great innate defences, if you compare it to the Reaper ... for those people that say that Shroud is meant for defence ... (there goes your DPS).

- Holo (sword), not that hard to master (compared to rifle or better yet, condi), a bit more DPS than Reaper. And more consistent encounter wise, if you have good support, you will have less suffering from conditional impacts as the Reaper has, who is highly dependant of the duration of its Shroud.

- Revenant might be in the same boat as the Necro, to be fairly honest, don't know the exact status there.

- Reaper itself: Maybe not _the_ hardest rotation on its own (although there are easier rotations imo), and indeed quite self-sufficient, but drops on the DPS chart once it gets damaged/CC-ed in shroud. He can't be healed in shroud, and will therefore lose quite some DPS. the Power Reaper DPS numbers is actually quite _encounter_ conditional instead of party conditional!!! Keep that in mind. It is therefore not THAT easy to play!

And this is just comparing the classes on a power level here (as this is more a Fractal thread). I'm not even talking about condi, which is strangely enough not the Necro's forte either ... Definitely not the Reapers' at least: or if you really want a challenging min-maxing experience, try the condi Reaper ... especially the shroud dancing is fun, not rewarding though!

Cyninja.2954 · April 15, 2019

> @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > @"Xxnecroxx.4039" said:

> > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > > > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:

> > > > > https://discretize.eu/builds

> > > >

> > > > This.

> > > >

> > > > Please realize, any of these builds will perform excellent. Even the "good" builds. The only reason the good builds are considered good and not meta is because they do not fit as perfectly into the meta setup. I can tell you from experience that both Daredevil and Power Reaper can top dps charts with minimal effort.

> > > >

> > > > Power Reaper especially is very new player friendly since it has necromancers self-sustain while pushing very nice damage.

> > > >

> > > > > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > > > > > @"Mini Crinny.6190" said:

> > > > > > > @"Xxnecroxx.4039" said:

> > > > > > > pretty much every class can be used in fractals well, even T100's and challenges etc

> > > > > > > well all except necro, never try to play necro into t100's etc, even in some T4's just don't bring a necro

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Except Necro is actually really good in fracs, but keep thinking like that.

> > > > >

> > > > > Scourge is good in fractals. Reaper meh. Reaper doesn't have enough corrupts to take away the boons, enemies apply

> > > >

> > > > You really need to stop giving advice if you have no experience in the game mode. Power Reaper is a very strong, easy to play and safe power dps for fractals.

> > >

> > > but as someone else said, yes you CAN play power reaper, but you can play another class and easily get more value from it, more damage, boons, utility, etc. necro brings nothing that useful to the table that you cant just have another class do and still have it outperform the necro. unless you are in a bad group and you play necro PERFECTLY you will be lacking in damage.

> >

> > Yes, and if all players were skilled enough to play their classes well, this would not be an issue.

> >

> > Given the average skill level of most players in T4 (and even some on CMs), I guarantee you a good power reaper will outperform all of them. I've seen Power Reapers outperform good Dragonhunters. The class is insanely easy to play. Again, the only reason it's not considered meta is because other classes are just slightly better (in a good players hands).

> >

> > The same goes for Daredevil. A good Daredevil will outperform a decent Dragonhunter or other dps. Let's not even mention weaver.

>

> It's funny how you always say how good the Necro (in this case the Reaper) performs in the PvE endgame, while it's literally, factually capped by actual proven numbers, DPS-wise. So you want to prove the community otherwise, by coming up with anecdotal stories, how good this Reaper was this one time and even that other time ...

> Because I'd like to find the good in all people, I just presume your motive is to tell the (PUGing) community (here) that we should finally stop shaming the Necro, because they're not all that bad! A noble pursuit ( :+1: )

> But on the other hand, you do fondly keep the rumour up on how **easy** the Necro is to play. Which is in it's very nature a very subjective thing to say, and which only fuels the resistance in accepting the Necro in the PvE endgame. I'm not particularly in favor of anecdotal argumentation myself, but, like I said, such a subjective argument is very hard to proof with _real_ evidence anyway, so here I go. Let me compare a few DPS builds out there (per class):

> - Sword Weaver: .... very easy to get higher numbers out in no-time than the Necro can ever even reach ... definitely not THAT hard to master when you choose the Bolt to the Heart variant. Hell, I will even go out of my way here: easier to master its rotation than the Power Reaper's (because of encounter consistencies (no faster depleting Shroud, etc.), and again, higher DPS!!!

> - Same counts for Daredevil AND Deadeye. I don't have to explain those, I assume. Those rotations are really braindead.

> - Soulbeast ... easy (try it, you'll be amazed) to get some real good numbers out of it ... again, far higher than the Reaper can ever reach! Ow and far more superior than Reaper in general, cause it can actually provide valuable support to the group, while maintaining high dps.

> - Is it self sufficient builds you want: maybe not the easiest to play (but again, that's highly subjective), the Chrono is the one that is (f)actually **the** most self-sufficient. Ow and if you master it ... it literally laughs at DPS numbers a Reaper can produce!

> - Dragonhunter: easy rotation, more DPS, and like you said yourself, more valuable to the group! And if you want to be _far_ more supportive to the whole group and do comparable in real situations DPS to that of a Power Reaper (let me repeat that **with far** more group support), try the power (you don't even have to go condi here) Firebrand, which pretty much has the same if not easier rotation.

> - Warrior ... even _with_ Banners they do about the same, if not more DPS than the Reaper. And how easy it is to play ... don't get me started! I mean, with my eyes closed. Want some more active play, try Spellbreaker ... actually better in Boon-hate than the Reaper (wow, you say, but yea, really!), _and_ providing better support and about the same DPS ... ow wait, we're not there yet: also having great innate defences, if you compare it to the Reaper ... for those people that say that Shroud is meant for defence ... (there goes your DPS).

> - Holo (sword), not that hard to master (compared to rifle or better yet, condi), a bit more DPS than Reaper. And more consistent encounter wise, if you have good support, you will have less suffering from conditional impacts as the Reaper has, who is highly dependant of the duration of its Shroud.

> - Revenant might be in the same boat as the Necro, to be fairly honest, don't know the exact status there.

>

> And this is just comparing the classes on a power level here (as this is more a Fractal thread). I'm not even talking about condi, which is strangely enough not the Necro's forte either ... Definitely not the Reapers' at least: or if you really want a challenging min-maxing experience, try the condi Reaper ... especially the shroud dancing is fun, not rewarding though!

Let me explain since people love telling new players how easy everything is while having played this game for 6+ years:

- new players do not dodge. If you played with some, you'd notice this immediately. There is a transition period for people to get used to GW2. Yes, this will be affected by how skilled a player is and how fast he can learn

- necro IS easy to play since it is one of the MOST forgiving classes next to warrior. I'm not going by rotation (which again is not that hard on necromancer) but by overall: how much does a person have to adapt to GW2?

- to even mention chrono... yes chrono is not hard, yet I still meet 80% of chronos who can't even get their initial pre-stack done right. That's the level of performance we are talking about. Not to mention the amount of skill and trait changing required. Sorry but if you are recommending chrono to a new player and putting it off as easy, you have missed your mark by a mile

- yes, Warrior is also an easy class to play, very fogiving and thanks to banners almost guaranteed a spot. Guess that's why it's meta

- no, Dragonhunter is NOT easy for a new player. At least not for the average T4 fractal player. Stop running in your perfect static groups and actually play some PUG group T4s (I'm not even going to talk about CMs). DH is easy IF you have passed beyond the basics.

- condi has currently no place in fractals except for massive cleave and abuse of epidemic say at the end of Siren's Reef where a condi FB or condi scourge will clean house

Necro, both power and condi are fine for a new player and will be the most forgiving builds you can take. There is even a low skill full clear 4 scourge+1druid meta by now. People really need to stop the entire necro hate (and even more the entire necro self-pity). For fractals necro is absolutely valid.

Agrippa Oculus.3726 · April 15, 2019

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:

> > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > > @"Xxnecroxx.4039" said:

> > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > > > > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:

> > > > > > https://discretize.eu/builds

> > > > >

> > > > > This.

> > > > >

> > > > > Please realize, any of these builds will perform excellent. Even the "good" builds. The only reason the good builds are considered good and not meta is because they do not fit as perfectly into the meta setup. I can tell you from experience that both Daredevil and Power Reaper can top dps charts with minimal effort.

> > > > >

> > > > > Power Reaper especially is very new player friendly since it has necromancers self-sustain while pushing very nice damage.

> > > > >

> > > > > > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > > > > > > @"Mini Crinny.6190" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Xxnecroxx.4039" said:

> > > > > > > > pretty much every class can be used in fractals well, even T100's and challenges etc

> > > > > > > > well all except necro, never try to play necro into t100's etc, even in some T4's just don't bring a necro

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Except Necro is actually really good in fracs, but keep thinking like that.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Scourge is good in fractals. Reaper meh. Reaper doesn't have enough corrupts to take away the boons, enemies apply

> > > > >

> > > > > You really need to stop giving advice if you have no experience in the game mode. Power Reaper is a very strong, easy to play and safe power dps for fractals.

> > > >

> > > > but as someone else said, yes you CAN play power reaper, but you can play another class and easily get more value from it, more damage, boons, utility, etc. necro brings nothing that useful to the table that you cant just have another class do and still have it outperform the necro. unless you are in a bad group and you play necro PERFECTLY you will be lacking in damage.

> > >

> > > Yes, and if all players were skilled enough to play their classes well, this would not be an issue.

> > >

> > > Given the average skill level of most players in T4 (and even some on CMs), I guarantee you a good power reaper will outperform all of them. I've seen Power Reapers outperform good Dragonhunters. The class is insanely easy to play. Again, the only reason it's not considered meta is because other classes are just slightly better (in a good players hands).

> > >

> > > The same goes for Daredevil. A good Daredevil will outperform a decent Dragonhunter or other dps. Let's not even mention weaver.

> >

> > It's funny how you always say how good the Necro (in this case the Reaper) performs in the PvE endgame, while it's literally, factually capped by actual proven numbers, DPS-wise. So you want to prove the community otherwise, by coming up with anecdotal stories, how good this Reaper was this one time and even that other time ...

> > Because I'd like to find the good in all people, I just presume your motive is to tell the (PUGing) community (here) that we should finally stop shaming the Necro, because they're not all that bad! A noble pursuit ( :+1: )

> > But on the other hand, you do fondly keep the rumour up on how **easy** the Necro is to play. Which is in it's very nature a very subjective thing to say, and which only fuels the resistance in accepting the Necro in the PvE endgame. I'm not particularly in favor of anecdotal argumentation myself, but, like I said, such a subjective argument is very hard to proof with _real_ evidence anyway, so here I go. Let me compare a few DPS builds out there (per class):

> > - Sword Weaver: .... very easy to get higher numbers out in no-time than the Necro can ever even reach ... definitely not THAT hard to master when you choose the Bolt to the Heart variant. Hell, I will even go out of my way here: easier to master its rotation than the Power Reaper's (because of encounter consistencies (no faster depleting Shroud, etc.), and again, higher DPS!!!

> > - Same counts for Daredevil AND Deadeye. I don't have to explain those, I assume. Those rotations are really braindead.

> > - Soulbeast ... easy (try it, you'll be amazed) to get some real good numbers out of it ... again, far higher than the Reaper can ever reach! Ow and far more superior than Reaper in general, cause it can actually provide valuable support to the group, while maintaining high dps.

> > - Is it self sufficient builds you want: maybe not the easiest to play (but again, that's highly subjective), the Chrono is the one that is (f)actually **the** most self-sufficient. Ow and if you master it ... it literally laughs at DPS numbers a Reaper can produce!

> > - Dragonhunter: easy rotation, more DPS, and like you said yourself, more valuable to the group! And if you want to be _far_ more supportive to the whole group and do comparable in real situations DPS to that of a Power Reaper (let me repeat that **with far** more group support), try the power (you don't even have to go condi here) Firebrand, which pretty much has the same if not easier rotation.

> > - Warrior ... even _with_ Banners they do about the same, if not more DPS than the Reaper. And how easy it is to play ... don't get me started! I mean, with my eyes closed. Want some more active play, try Spellbreaker ... actually better in Boon-hate than the Reaper (wow, you say, but yea, really!), _and_ providing better support and about the same DPS ... ow wait, we're not there yet: also having great innate defences, if you compare it to the Reaper ... for those people that say that Shroud is meant for defence ... (there goes your DPS).

> > - Holo (sword), not that hard to master (compared to rifle or better yet, condi), a bit more DPS than Reaper. And more consistent encounter wise, if you have good support, you will have less suffering from conditional impacts as the Reaper has, who is highly dependant of the duration of its Shroud.

> > - Revenant might be in the same boat as the Necro, to be fairly honest, don't know the exact status there.

> >

> > And this is just comparing the classes on a power level here (as this is more a Fractal thread). I'm not even talking about condi, which is strangely enough not the Necro's forte either ... Definitely not the Reapers' at least: or if you really want a challenging min-maxing experience, try the condi Reaper ... especially the shroud dancing is fun, not rewarding though!

>

> Let me explain since people love telling new players how easy everything is while having played this game for 6+ years:

> - new players do not dodge. If you played with some, you'd notice this immediately. There is a transition period for people to get used to GW2. Yes, this will be affected by how skilled a player is and how fast he can learn

> - necro IS easy to play since it is one of the MOST forgiving classes next to warrior. I'm not going by rotation (which again is not that hard on necromancer) but by overall: how much does a person have to adapt to GW2?

> - to even mention chrono... yes chrono is not hard, yet I still meet 80% of chronos who can't even get their initial pre-stack done right. That's the level of performance we are talking about. Not to mention the amount of skill and trait changing required. Sorry but if you are recommending chrono to a new player and putting it off as easy, you have missed your mark by a mile

> - yes, Warrior is also an easy class to play, very fogiving and thanks to banners almost guaranteed a spot. Guess that's why it's meta

> - no, Dragonhunter is NOT easy for a new player. At least not for the average T4 fractal player. Stop running in your perfect static groups and actually play some PUG group T4s (I'm not even going to talk about CMs). DH is easy IF you have passed beyond the basics.

> - condi has currently no place in fractals except for massive cleave and abuse of epidemic say at the end of Siren's Reef where a condi FB or condi scourge will clean house

>

> Necro, both power and condi are fine for a new player and will be the most forgiving builds you can take. There is even a low skill full clear 4 scourge+1druid meta by now. People really need to stop the entire necro hate (and even more the entire necro self-pity). For fractals necro is absolutely valid.

I'm not saying the Necro is not forgiving. Btw, so are many other classes: and DH is one of them with those many blocks, inbuilt toughness, etc., but if you're just soaking up damage with the Necro, you're DPS is terrible and therefore utterly useless to a group. Just like any other new player that doesn't dodge. In other words, it's _always_ easy to be useless, doesn't matter which class you play!!

Agrippa Oculus.3726 · April 15, 2019

Let me add a question: is this thread about T4 fractals or fractals in general (genuine question)? If it's T4: then please don't discuss players that don't dodge, they don't have a place in T4 fractals, imo. There's a huge open world and T1 and T2 for them

Btw, **IF** there are new people that just want to choose a class to get familiar with so they can end up in the PvE endgame being (very) useful, without having to learn a new class (not saying that OP is such a person, but just hypothetically). The Necro is not the class **I** would recommend to such people at the very moment. The _subjective_ learning curve aside, is it not better to recommend the Mesmer (although _maybe_ harder to master), Ranger or Warrior, because it has a proven track record in the PvE endgame? Imo: why would anyone recommend anything that is on subjective reasoning while there are proven numbers/statistics out there (again if and only if this thread is about class recommendations for new players that eventually would like to play in the PvE endgame. I'm not talking about look and feel, etc.)

Cyninja.2954 · April 15, 2019

> @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:

> Let me add a question: is this thread about T4 fractals or fractals in general (genuine question)? If it's T4: then please don't discuss players that don't dodge, they don't have a place in T4 fractals, imo. There's a huge open world and T1 and T2 for them

>

> Btw, **IF** there are new people that just want to choose a class to get familiar with so they can end up in the PvE endgame being (very) useful, without having to learn a new class (not saying that OP is such a person, but just hypothetically). The Necro is not the class **I** would recommend to such people at the very moment. The _subjective_ learning curve aside, is it not better to recommend the Mesmer (although _maybe_ harder to master), Ranger or Warrior, because it has a proven track record in the PvE endgame? Imo: why would anyone recommend anything that is on subjective reasoning while there are proven numbers/statistics out there (again if and only if this thread is about class recommendations for new players that eventually would like to play in the PvE endgame. I'm not talking about look and feel, etc.)

I guess that is up to personal preference. I like suggesting necromancer because it offers the overall easiest access and start into the game. Be it pet builds for open world, the innate tankiness, etc.

The numbers/statistics out there are based around optimized play, which I have never disputed. It is a huge leap to tell someone: well once you CAN play the game, this class will be great. That's not how entry into a new MMO works or should work. There is nothing stopping a player to start the game on warrior, necromancer or ranger and then transition to other classes once they have the basics down.

On top of all that, I have made my case why I do not believe necromancer to be in such a terrible state as people always want to make the class out to be. Especially now and across multiple game modes.

Literally the ONLY reason I would consider not to recommend necromancer to new players is the exact biased, outdated preconception that the class is so much worse than everything else. Those times are long gone.

lare.5129 · April 15, 2019

yesterday make cms+t4, setup: druid, chrno sup, p gurad, necro reaper, chrno pDps

partry ask's 200kp req.

lare.5129 · April 15, 2019

also as sup chrono I othen make lfg cms+t4 200kp scourges ..

If in 10 minutes find 3 dps scourgs - I update title to seach druid, and whit this setup we go.

If no scourges joined - take any dps excepts thiefs, and start as is.

Agrippa Oculus.3726 · April 15, 2019

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:

> > Let me add a question: is this thread about T4 fractals or fractals in general (genuine question)? If it's T4: then please don't discuss players that don't dodge, they don't have a place in T4 fractals, imo. There's a huge open world and T1 and T2 for them

> >

> > Btw, **IF** there are new people that just want to choose a class to get familiar with so they can end up in the PvE endgame being (very) useful, without having to learn a new class (not saying that OP is such a person, but just hypothetically). The Necro is not the class **I** would recommend to such people at the very moment. The _subjective_ learning curve aside, is it not better to recommend the Mesmer (although _maybe_ harder to master), Ranger or Warrior, because it has a proven track record in the PvE endgame? Imo: why would anyone recommend anything that is on subjective reasoning while there are proven numbers/statistics out there (again if and only if this thread is about class recommendations for new players that eventually would like to play in the PvE endgame. I'm not talking about look and feel, etc.)

>

> I guess that is up to personal preference. I like suggesting necromancer because it offers the overall easiest access and start into the game. Be it pet builds for open world, the innate tankiness, etc.

And you're doing it again, while it's even faulty as well! The Necro is not tanky, unless you're playing it wrong (i.e. useless to the rest of the group in PvE endgame scenarios)! And there are far tankier builds/classes out there: Warrior, Guardian, etc.

If you (and again, I don't know what your motive is) really want the community to be more accepting towards the Necro in the PvE endgame, don't say these nonsense, how overall easy they are and good for beginning players. Every class is, in its particular way! It's actually **THAT** misused argument that makes them somewhat a pariah in the endgame. Maybe even more to the fact that they are literally capped (DPS-wise, etc.)!

Dadnir.5038 · April 15, 2019

I'm always amazed to see players talking about "new" players in T4 fractal. Come on, if you've reach T4 in fractal you're by no mean a new player and you're expected to know how to dodge as well as the various mechanisms of most of the fractals.

Cyninja.2954 · April 15, 2019

> @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:

> > > Let me add a question: is this thread about T4 fractals or fractals in general (genuine question)? If it's T4: then please don't discuss players that don't dodge, they don't have a place in T4 fractals, imo. There's a huge open world and T1 and T2 for them

> > >

> > > Btw, **IF** there are new people that just want to choose a class to get familiar with so they can end up in the PvE endgame being (very) useful, without having to learn a new class (not saying that OP is such a person, but just hypothetically). The Necro is not the class **I** would recommend to such people at the very moment. The _subjective_ learning curve aside, is it not better to recommend the Mesmer (although _maybe_ harder to master), Ranger or Warrior, because it has a proven track record in the PvE endgame? Imo: why would anyone recommend anything that is on subjective reasoning while there are proven numbers/statistics out there (again if and only if this thread is about class recommendations for new players that eventually would like to play in the PvE endgame. I'm not talking about look and feel, etc.)

> >

> > I guess that is up to personal preference. I like suggesting necromancer because it offers the overall easiest access and start into the game. Be it pet builds for open world, the innate tankiness, etc.

>

> And you're doing it again, while it's even faulty as well! The Necro is not tanky, unless you're playing it wrong (i.e. useless to the rest of the group in PvE endgame scenarios)! And there are far tankier builds/classes out there: Warrior, Guardian, etc.

> If you (and again, I don't know what your motive is) really want the community to be more accepting towards the Necro in the PvE endgame, don't say these nonsense, how overall easy they are and good for beginning players. Every class is, in its particular way! It's actually **THAT** misused argument that makes them somewhat a pariah in the endgame. Maybe even more to the fact that they are literally capped (DPS-wise, etc.)!

Sorry but I heavily disagree. You are leaving out a huge fraction of the player base. Necromancer is very well a lot tankier than elementalist, thief or even guardian once stripped of aegis.

You are still focusing on a skill level far beyond what people who start doing fractals play on or even what level some PUG groups play on in T4. There is a vast difference between being useless or dead. A necromancer will be useless a lot longer than other classes which are dead at that point in time.

There is a reason why healers are almost mandatory in PUG T4 runs. Think on why that might be.

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> I'm always amazed to see players talking about "new" players in T4 fractal. Come on, if you've reach T4 in fractal you're by no mean a new player and you're expected to know how to dodge as well as the various mechanisms of most of the fractals.

Yeah, now think back on how big the skill gap for players in T4 fractals is. There is enough T4 players who can be considered new.

Nimon.7840 · April 15, 2019

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > > > > @"Xxnecroxx.4039" said:

> > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:

> > > > > > > > https://discretize.eu/builds

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > This.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Please realize, any of these builds will perform excellent. Even the "good" builds. The only reason the good builds are considered good and not meta is because they do not fit as perfectly into the meta setup. I can tell you from experience that both Daredevil and Power Reaper can top dps charts with minimal effort.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Power Reaper especially is very new player friendly since it has necromancers self-sustain while pushing very nice damage.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Mini Crinny.6190" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Xxnecroxx.4039" said:

> > > > > > > > > > pretty much every class can be used in fractals well, even T100's and challenges etc

> > > > > > > > > > well all except necro, never try to play necro into t100's etc, even in some T4's just don't bring a necro

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Except Necro is actually really good in fracs, but keep thinking like that.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Scourge is good in fractals. Reaper meh. Reaper doesn't have enough corrupts to take away the boons, enemies apply

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You really need to stop giving advice if you have no experience in the game mode. Power Reaper is a very strong, easy to play and safe power dps for fractals.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > but as someone else said, yes you CAN play power reaper, but you can play another class and easily get more value from it, more damage, boons, utility, etc. necro brings nothing that useful to the table that you cant just have another class do and still have it outperform the necro. unless you are in a bad group and you play necro PERFECTLY you will be lacking in damage.

> > > > >

> > > > > Yes, and if all players were skilled enough to play their classes well, this would not be an issue.

> > > > >

> > > > > Given the average skill level of most players in T4 (and even some on CMs), I guarantee you a good power reaper will outperform all of them. I've seen Power Reapers outperform good Dragonhunters. The class is insanely easy to play. Again, the only reason it's not considered meta is because other classes are just slightly better (in a good players hands).

> > > >

> > > > Sorry but: this should never happen.

> > > > And reaper isn't as easy as you might think.

> > > >

> > > > A friend of mine is support chrono main. He can even do the fresh air weaver rotation (that's much more complicated than reapers rotation in my opinion) yet he barely gets to 23k DPS on the golem with reaper.

> > > >

> > > > If you say, that in pug groups a well played reaper is better than a mediocre played weaver (just an example).

> > > > You assume here a very well played reaper. But how do you know, that the reaper player is good? #nooffens

> > > > And let's be honest. A mediocre played reaper is worse than a mediocre played dragon hunter.

> > > >

> > > > U need cc? Just save the elite trap on DH

> > > > U need cc on reaper? Yes reaper has more cc than DH, but it's harder to get to these cc skills and use them properly in you rotation.

> > > >

> > > > Reaper isn't as noob-friendly as you might think. Especially with the most recent nerfs to sustain and the most recent changes with soul barbs.

> > > > Also knowing when (and especially how) to destroy your minions so they don't get you infight is a big point on playing necro.

> > > >

> > > > Yes I might not have played fractals for 2 months now. But literally nothing changed for the most classes since I last played fracs.

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > The same goes for Daredevil. A good Daredevil will outperform a decent Dragonhunter or other dps. Let's not even mention weaver.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Yes, so let me get this strait:

> > > - https://discretize.eu/ , basically the snowcrows for fractals with even overlapping players explains and names the necromancer good (1 tier below meta)

> >

> > Actually it's 2 tiers below meta, if you'd look correctly. It's only mentioned as a good build. Right after the meta and great builds.

> >

> > Basically it's just snowcrows build copied! Not even having the latest build. (I don't want to make their site bad)

> > Great let me quote from their site:

> >

> > "However, large amounts of self-produced Vulnerability, Quickness and Might will allow this build to perform well as a "solo carry" build that suffers less from underperforming teammates and heavily rewards a skilled user." - but if you have decent teammates, other classes will do better than reaper.

> >

> > "The Power Reaper build, while not one of the strongest in terms of DPS, is a versatile build that can modify itself to suit a variety of scenarios without many issues."

> >

> > They even point out a bloodmagic variant, but don't mention that

> > 1. This will let you dmg drop by a noticeable amount

> > 2. Without mentioning the wells trait

> >

> > But good reapers will know. So let's not care about that right? - wrong! People asking how certain builds are doing either aren't mains of that class or look into high level play of these classes for the first time.

> > So you have to assume they aren't reaper god's.

> > But you are comparing those very good players to average players, assuming that all Necro players are automatically necro gods.

> >

>

> Want me to start listing the downsides of the other classes? I never said reaper was better than DH. Go through what I actually said please.

>

> > > - there is speed clear fractal videos on youtube clearly showing power reaper being top dps or very very close as far back as 8 months and more (before the buffs in the last 6 months patches)

> >

> > Didn't find a single video, where reaper was taken for Speedclear and was top DPS.

> >

>

> So you can't youtube. Literally the first 2 videos of typing in the following: gw2 fractal speed clear cm reaper

>

> are both from 99 and 100 cm, both runs sub 10 minutes, both runs reaper is either tops dps or very close behind the soulbeast (try beating a soulbeast on dps in fractals on any class), both videos from 8 months ago pre buffs.

>

> > > - people who clear fractals daily as well as CMs (like myself) have seen reaper perform on the level I have explained which correlates with what high skill players say

> > >

> > > Yet you, a self admitted not fractal T4 active player, know better. Reaper was strong 8 months ago, it has been buffed since then. I'm sorry, I won't waste time on convincing forum warriors of facts. If you want to stay in your little self-pity bubble, that's fine by me. It is not reflected in the class.

> >

> > Buffs for reaper?

> > August 2018 reaper reciever like a 10% overall dmg buff.

> > After that:

> > are you thinking at the buffs, that were made to compensate for the dmg loss reaper had, from getting dmg nerfs, which ended up reaper doing almost the same DPS than before?

> > Sorry but you got no point here.

> >

>

> Yeah, try again. I'm sure looking at only the benchmark numbers is a great way to judge the performance increase outside of actual real scenarios. Even IF it was only a 10% buff, which it was not since a lot of quality of life improvements and self buff uptime are not reflected in the benchmarks (since those are done with max buffs all the time). Nice try though, shows you have not been playing the class for a while and definitely not consistently for over 3/4 of a year.

It is the only way to judge. While other classes may be dependant on alacrity, reaper looses a lot of dmg when target isn't chilled. Can you reach 100% chill uptime on the power reaper rotation?

Who are you to judge, how much, often or what class I play?

Qol changes do not improve DPS. They just improve qol.

And what qol changes do you have in mind?

Soul barbs? - Was kind of a buff-nerf.

Reapers onslaught? - even the worst mesmer I ever had in my group did get a 50% quickness uptime, which is exactly what you will reach with the trait equipped (actually a little bit less with the newest rotation - thanks to soul barbs)

You should really get your information more carefully:

I'm telling you this

as an almost full-time necro player, playing all variants and different kind of builds

As a very enthusiastic build crafter/theorie rafter

As a former necro mentor in both pve guild and wvw guild (hot times)

As an a current wvw necro guild mentor.

As someone that plays gw2 almost every day

> @"Warscythes.9307" said:

> > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > > > > @"Xxnecroxx.4039" said:

> > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:

> > > > > > > > https://discretize.eu/builds

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > This.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Please realize, any of these builds will perform excellent. Even the "good" builds. The only reason the good builds are considered good and not meta is because they do not fit as perfectly into the meta setup. I can tell you from experience that both Daredevil and Power Reaper can top dps charts with minimal effort.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Power Reaper especially is very new player friendly since it has necromancers self-sustain while pushing very nice damage.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Mini Crinny.6190" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Xxnecroxx.4039" said:

> > > > > > > > > > pretty much every class can be used in fractals well, even T100's and challenges etc

> > > > > > > > > > well all except necro, never try to play necro into t100's etc, even in some T4's just don't bring a necro

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Except Necro is actually really good in fracs, but keep thinking like that.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Scourge is good in fractals. Reaper meh. Reaper doesn't have enough corrupts to take away the boons, enemies apply

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You really need to stop giving advice if you have no experience in the game mode. Power Reaper is a very strong, easy to play and safe power dps for fractals.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > but as someone else said, yes you CAN play power reaper, but you can play another class and easily get more value from it, more damage, boons, utility, etc. necro brings nothing that useful to the table that you cant just have another class do and still have it outperform the necro. unless you are in a bad group and you play necro PERFECTLY you will be lacking in damage.

> > > > >

> > > > > Yes, and if all players were skilled enough to play their classes well, this would not be an issue.

> > > > >

> > > > > Given the average skill level of most players in T4 (and even some on CMs), I guarantee you a good power reaper will outperform all of them. I've seen Power Reapers outperform good Dragonhunters. The class is insanely easy to play. Again, the only reason it's not considered meta is because other classes are just slightly better (in a good players hands).

> > > >

> > > > Sorry but: this should never happen.

> > > > And reaper isn't as easy as you might think.

> > > >

> > > > A friend of mine is support chrono main. He can even do the fresh air weaver rotation (that's much more complicated than reapers rotation in my opinion) yet he barely gets to 23k DPS on the golem with reaper.

> > > >

> > > > If you say, that in pug groups a well played reaper is better than a mediocre played weaver (just an example).

> > > > You assume here a very well played reaper. But how do you know, that the reaper player is good? #nooffens

> > > > And let's be honest. A mediocre played reaper is worse than a mediocre played dragon hunter.

> > > >

> > > > U need cc? Just save the elite trap on DH

> > > > U need cc on reaper? Yes reaper has more cc than DH, but it's harder to get to these cc skills and use them properly in you rotation.

> > > >

> > > > Reaper isn't as noob-friendly as you might think. Especially with the most recent nerfs to sustain and the most recent changes with soul barbs.

> > > > Also knowing when (and especially how) to destroy your minions so they don't get you infight is a big point on playing necro.

> > > >

> > > > Yes I might not have played fractals for 2 months now. But literally nothing changed for the most classes since I last played fracs.

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > The same goes for Daredevil. A good Daredevil will outperform a decent Dragonhunter or other dps. Let's not even mention weaver.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Yes, so let me get this strait:

> > > - https://discretize.eu/ , basically the snowcrows for fractals with even overlapping players explains and names the necromancer good (1 tier below meta)

> >

> > Actually it's 2 tiers below meta, if you'd look correctly. It's only mentioned as a good build. Right after the meta and great builds.

> >

> > Basically it's just snowcrows build copied! Not even having the latest build. (I don't want to make their site bad)

> > Great let me quote from their site:

> >

> > "However, large amounts of self-produced Vulnerability, Quickness and Might will allow this build to perform well as a "solo carry" build that suffers less from underperforming teammates and heavily rewards a skilled user." - but if you have decent teammates, other classes will do better than reaper.

> >

> > "The Power Reaper build, while not one of the strongest in terms of DPS, is a versatile build that can modify itself to suit a variety of scenarios without many issues."

> >

> > They even point out a bloodmagic variant, but don't mention that

> > 1. This will let you dmg drop by a noticeable amount

> > 2. Without mentioning the wells trait

> >

> > But good reapers will know. So let's not care about that right? - wrong! People asking how certain builds are doing either aren't mains of that class or look into high level play of these classes for the first time.

> > So you have to assume they aren't reaper god's.

> > But you are comparing those very good players to average players, assuming that all Necro players are automatically necro gods.

> >

> > > - there is speed clear fractal videos on youtube clearly showing power reaper being top dps or very very close as far back as 8 months and more (before the buffs in the last 6 months patches)

> >

> > Didn't find a single video, where reaper was taken for Speedclear and was top DPS.

> >

> > > - people who clear fractals daily as well as CMs (like myself) have seen reaper perform on the level I have explained which correlates with what high skill players say

> > >

> > > Yet you, a self admitted not fractal T4 active player, know better. Reaper was strong 8 months ago, it has been buffed since then. I'm sorry, I won't waste time on convincing forum warriors of facts. If you want to stay in your little self-pity bubble, that's fine by me. It is not reflected in the class.

> >

> > Buffs for reaper?

> > August 2018 reaper reciever like a 10% overall dmg buff.

> > After that:

> > are you thinking at the buffs, that were made to compensate for the dmg loss reaper had, from getting dmg nerfs, which ended up reaper doing almost the same DPS than before?

> > Sorry but you got no point here.

> >

> > >

> > > The reason DH is superior to reaper has hardly to do with cc... to even suggest this. Sad. DH is superior to Reaper due to: reflects, stability, aegis on demand and higher burst. CC is not even part of the equation. DH is among the classes with the highest ability to adapt currently, if people make the effort.

> >

> > I was only pointing out one strength that reaper has over DH, as an example.

> > Now even you are saying that DH is stronger than reaper xD.

> > That's pretty inconsistent of you.

> >

> > And I never said, that reaper is bad. I said that there are (way) better classes even right now (power reaper seems to be in the best spot since hot launch)

> > Quote from discretize: "The Power Dragonhunter is currently a good and easy to play build for fractals."

> >

> > If You compare that to the reaper description, you have to be way smarter when playing reaper.

> >

> > So again: it's not the easiest class to play. But. I think I'm gonna stop discussing with you here and now.

> > As you showed you have only very little knowledge about the balance that happened since your mentioned time.

> >

>

> I can answer reaper buffs.

>

> There were 3 changes that affected reaper in general from last patch.

>

> Nightfall: Increased the damage of this skill by 50% in PvE only.

> Cold Shoulder: Increased the amount of bonus damage that this trait grants from 10% to 15% in PvE only.

> Reduced all banners' stat gains from 170 to 100 at level 80.

>

> I know people here scoffed at the nightfall buff, but that is actually about 2%~ increase because you get couple ticks in shroud with +600 ferocity.

>

> Most important is the banner nerf, power reaper is probably the least affected class because we overcap crit by a huge amount. Every other class suffered a hit while reaper is barely affected. Yes Reaper still bench roughly the same amount(30.4k~) as before, but all the other classes has been brought down by significant amount.

But did not affect reaper much (giving 600-1000 more dps on golem)

And these changes were made to make up for the huge DPS loss of chilling nova nerf

Which ended up to be equal (comparing pre chilling nova nerf and last patches buffs)

Yes banner changes hit everyone, but there are still classes that are able to pull of 36-39k DPS and higher. Which is 20%-30% more than necro has.

Warscythes.9307 · April 15, 2019

The buffs did matter for the exact reasons I gave above, the numbers appear smaller because the 70 power nerf on banner did hurt but it hindered other classes more. If you get buffed by 1k and everybody else lost 1k. That's not just a dps buff of 1k because you are not doing a comparison in a vacuum.

Also no, I still don't understand how exactly is chilling nova nerf a huge dps loss. Chilling nova is literally 2% of a power reaper's dps based on dps logs. Nerfing the crit was really nothing. If anything the bigger loss on golem dps was the change on soul barbs because in theory you could have maintain the shroud bonus forever.

Please don't give me the 36-39k BS. That's golem dps. You know better than that, do you really think people are taking rifle deadeye other than some extreme niche case? Look at the specs that people actually play, more specifically look at the specs that reapers are most similar to. Namely dragonhunters and power holosmith. Both are melee heavy dps with strong cc. DH lost around 800 dps, Power holo lost around 1.5k. Currently DH bench at 32.8k at huge hitbox, Holo at 31.5k, Reaper at 30.4k. There is no 20-30% damage gap unless you want to tell me that DH and power holos are terrible too because they can't hit 36-39k. The dps difference right now between Reaper and most meta classes is around 5-10%. That's really it.

DragonFury.6243 · April 15, 2019

> @"Zaraki.5784" said:

> 2 other guildmates and me (1 of them druid) always run a T4 party composed by 4 condi scourges and one druid (or firebrand rarely).

> We love that comp, it surely takes a bit longer than standard meta comp but it's way WAY safer.

> @"lare.5129" said:

> also as sup chrono I othen make lfg cms+t4 200kp scourges ..

> If in 10 minutes find 3 dps scourgs - I update title to seach druid, and whit this setup we go.

> If no scourges joined - take any dps excepts thiefs, and start as is.

yea yea

its fun to play DPS scourge on T4 with Frailty

it fun to lose 50% of your LF just to activate desert shroud

it fun that all your LF generation skills give you 25% less

its been this way since January 8, 2019 its ANET subtle way to say to necro stay out of fractal

and necro is the lowest DPS profession because he can take a lot of damage

simple fix can necro have a trait that halves his HP and give him 30% damage modifier

every one will be happy "new" player can still play cele high HP minionmancer and not "new" player can do decent DPS on glass build

melandru.3876 · April 15, 2019