And after that what will happen?

[Pifil.5193]

> @"mercury ranique.2170" said:

> Wether this story goes on as living world seasons or an expansion is unknown.

 

Yep, it's entirely possible that they may at some stage in the future add another expansion. It's also very unlikely that they are working on one now, otherwise they would have mentioned it in the recent post.

 

> I doubt a decission to put GW2 on maintanance mode would not be done without disclosing information about future projects the studio is working on. The main reason is that investors would want to know where they are investing in. When they know, the players will also know.

 

I don't know if that's quite true, around the time of the layoffs they cancelled several unannounced projects that the investors either didn't know anything about or else the investors _did_ know about them but we, the players, _didn't_.

 

> We do know:

> - Future projects are currently not called expansion packs

> - There are 4 content teams working on GW2 content (something I hardly call maintanance mode).

 

They say they are creating "four fully staffed content teams" but we don't know what that actually means in terms of numbers or their delivery schedule (you could "fully staff" a team to deliver an episode every 2 years, you could also "fully staff" a larger team to deliver the same episode in 1 year).

 

We also don't know what impact this shuffling will have on their current projects. All we know is that before they had the layoffs and reorganisation the releases in LS4 were on average over a month further apart than releases in LS3. Only time will tell if that improves or worsens in LS5 and into whatever future content looks like. I think they need to start delivering quality, timely time content again.

[AlexxxDelta.1806]

> @"mercury ranique.2170" said:

> I'll be honest. I know most games have x-pacs or dlc's. Untill HoT-accouncement in 2015, we had 3 years of living world content without any plans annouced for x-pacs or DLC's. Season one was one of the most active seasons when it comes to releases. There was at one point a new release once every 2 weeks. This envolved less map and less content, but loads of story. They also had 4 content teams working on this, going in rotation to do such a tight release schedule. I am not sayng to expect the same, and season one had it's flaws (the option to replay it as one of them), but it was rich content and lots of fun.

> Seeing the expected release of xpacs and dlc's as a sign of how healthy the game is, is flawed imo

 

I agree with your last point that expansions shouldn't be the only sign of a healthy game.

 

To your point about LS1 being one of the most active periods of the game though, do we have any indication that the following season(s) will follow the same model? I mean, we got confirmation about the "less maps" part but I saw nothing about delivering more story content or tightening release schedule. And I'd consider getting less content (maps) while staying on current release schedule and breadth of story content, to be a sign of deteriorating "health". Anet's post mentioned trying to keep up with the 3 month schedule but LS4 was closer to 4 than 3. So if we are still talking about 3 to 4 (at best) releases a year, offering fewer maps than now...it's just not enough.

 

Of course we still have to see what they really mean with "extending existing maps", since this affects the amount of content we will be getting. But the recent post does leave some room for speculation.

[Trise.2865]

Isn't it obvious? They're shutting down. Nothing can ever exist after this next chapter because nobody told you it would.

[ROMANG.1903]

I think the game needs a 3rd elite spec per class to be healthy and diverse. Wether that comes with expansions or living world does not matter to me, though I tend to prefer expansions when it comes to the structure of storytelling...

[Raventree.8302]

> @"ROMANG.1903" said:

> I think the game needs a 3rd elite spec per class to be healthy and diverse. Wether that comes with expansions or living world does not matter to me, though I tend to prefer expansions when it comes to the structure of storytelling...

 

I agree. I can understand the strategic move to stick with the LS format, so my forecast is not as necessarily bleak as some others. However, I am concerned about getting at least some expac-quality features in the LS format. I really enjoyed the diversity provided by the elite specializations and I was really looking forward to more of those.

[mercury ranique.2170]

> @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said:

> > @"mercury ranique.2170" said:

> > I'll be honest. I know most games have x-pacs or dlc's. Untill HoT-accouncement in 2015, we had 3 years of living world content without any plans annouced for x-pacs or DLC's. Season one was one of the most active seasons when it comes to releases. There was at one point a new release once every 2 weeks. This envolved less map and less content, but loads of story. They also had 4 content teams working on this, going in rotation to do such a tight release schedule. I am not sayng to expect the same, and season one had it's flaws (the option to replay it as one of them), but it was rich content and lots of fun.

> > Seeing the expected release of xpacs and dlc's as a sign of how healthy the game is, is flawed imo

>

> I agree with your last point that expansions shouldn't be the only sign of a healthy game.

>

> To your point about LS1 being one of the most active periods of the game though, do we have any indication that the following season(s) will follow the same model? I mean, we got confirmation about the "less maps" part but I saw nothing about delivering more story content or tightening release schedule. And I'd consider getting less content (maps) while staying on current release schedule and breadth of story content, to be a sign of deteriorating "health". Anet's post mentioned trying to keep up with the 3 month schedule but LS4 was closer to 4 than 3. So if we are still talking about 3 to 4 (at best) releases a year, offering fewer maps than now...it's just not enough.

>

> Of course we still have to see what they really mean with "extending existing maps", since this affects the amount of content we will be getting. But the recent post does leave some room for speculation.

 

No we do not have any indication that it will follow the same model, except that they have as much teams as back then (although size may vary), they are leaving the idea that each episode needs to have certain aspects to be succesfull (new map, new legendary, etc), and they are going to have more creative freedom. How it works out..I do not know. I do not expect it tobe the same as season one (and it had it flaws anyhows). I do think these steps, away from set formats and how it is done, are good steps.

 

Arenanet always shined cause they didn't follow the format. The game is called an MMORPG, but they actually broke with many things set by games like WoW and by doing so they changed the genre as a whole. This started in GW1, and continued in GW2. A few examples.

- No monthly fees

- Achievements as a grind between content releases

- promotion of coop instead of loottags

- no periodic xpacs, but smaller packages of content, more spread out

 

In this there is always a balance. On one hand you want to be innovative, but in doing so, you attract new players that have expectations based on other existing games. In my opinion, the introduction of Raids and Expansions has pushed the game too much as a game that copies others then that is original. Arenanet's biggest quality is to innovate, not to copy. In this, I see more freedom and challenge in having 4 teams working in competition, but without set formats.

 

 

[Einlanzer.1627]

> @"XenesisII.1540" said:

> > @"Balsa.3951" said:

> > im really confused when i read those.

> > Anet states new content is incoming, customer respond i want new content !

> >

>

> Because expansions are more than just story and zone content, it's also about new class/race/skills/traits/weapons/new systems/etc, things that regularly don't get released on anything but an expansion.

>

> I'm sure they've been working on an expansion since PoF release, just with how things have been going for them there's going to be a major delay.

>

 

Yes, and the problem is that, frankly, the game needs those things more than it needs story content.

 

This is why continuing to push LW updates in lieu of expansions is folly.

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"Kurrilino.2706" said:

> Wow........... this level of denial is epic.

>

> What part of Mike Zadorojny directly saying there won't be an expansion is so difficult to understand?

 

Not mentioning an expansion equals "directly saying there won't be one"? Wow... this level of putting words in someone else's mouth is epic.

 

> @"Einlanzer.1627" said:

> frankly, the game needs those things more than it needs story content.

 

It's true that there are a lot of things the game could use before new story content.

[sigur.9453]

> @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> > @"Kurrilino.2706" said:

> > Wow........... this level of denial is epic.

> >

> > What part of Mike Zadorojny directly saying there won't be an expansion is so difficult to understand?

>

> Not mentioning an expansion equals "directly saying there won't be one"? Wow... this level of putting words in someone else's mouth is epic.

>

> > @"Einlanzer.1627" said:

> > frankly, the game needs those things more than it needs story content.

>

> It's true that there are a lot of things the game could use before new story content.

 

To be fair, if you read between the lines it exactly says that. The important sentence was filteterd through the pr department though.

"The Living World of Guild Wars 2 is a great way for us to accomplish all of that. "

Let that sink in.

[kharmin.7683]

> @"Einlanzer.1627" said:

 

> This is why continuing to push LW updates in lieu of expansions is folly.

Maybe not. Perhaps this is tempering expectations. I believe that everyone would expect new elite specs with expansions; however, Anet hasn't really managed to balance what's currently available. Should they then release more expacs with more elites and spiral further into the abyss of imbalance? Maybe LW updates are ways to release some fresh content without the potentially worsening of things that releasing expacs might bring?

 

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"sigur.9453" said:

> To be fair, if you read between the lines it exactly says that. The important sentence was filteterd through the pr department though.

> **"The Living World of Guild Wars 2 is a great way for us to accomplish all of that. "**

> Let that sink in.

It's not a new claim. It's very old one - they made it first time during **LS1**. Unfortunately, the past experiences have shown they were never able to deliver on it.

[Einlanzer.1627]

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > @"Einlanzer.1627" said:

>

> > This is why continuing to push LW updates in lieu of expansions is folly.

> Maybe not. Perhaps this is tempering expectations. I believe that everyone would expect new elite specs with expansions; however, Anet hasn't really managed to balance what's currently available. Should they then release more expacs with more elites and spiral further into the abyss of imbalance? Maybe LW updates are ways to release some fresh content without the potentially worsening of things that releasing expacs might bring?

>

 

You don't ever stop balancing. Not releasing new gameplay options over "balance" concerns is even more folly than what I said above.

[sigur.9453]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"sigur.9453" said:

> > To be fair, if you read between the lines it exactly says that. The important sentence was filteterd through the pr department though.

> > **"The Living World of Guild Wars 2 is a great way for us to accomplish all of that. "**

> > Let that sink in.

> It's not a new claim. It's very old one - they made it first time during **LS1**. Unfortunately, the past experiences have shown they were never able to deliver on it.

 

Your point is? (serious question)

You mean this sentence is irrelevant since they wrote it once before?

 

[kharmin.7683]

> @"Einlanzer.1627" said:

> > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > @"Einlanzer.1627" said:

> >

> > > This is why continuing to push LW updates in lieu of expansions is folly.

> > Maybe not. Perhaps this is tempering expectations. I believe that everyone would expect new elite specs with expansions; however, Anet hasn't really managed to balance what's currently available. Should they then release more expacs with more elites and spiral further into the abyss of imbalance? Maybe LW updates are ways to release some fresh content without the potentially worsening of things that releasing expacs might bring?

> >

>

> You don't ever stop balancing. Not releasing new gameplay options over "balance" concerns is even more folly than what I said above.

 

Point being that maybe they are struggling so much with balance issues that it would be unwise to inject more. Doing so could kill the game as people would be more disgusted with the balance issues and leave for good.

[Knighthonor.4061]

I am late to the news. Will check the forum now

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"sigur.9453" said:

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > @"sigur.9453" said:

> > > To be fair, if you read between the lines it exactly says that. The important sentence was filteterd through the pr department though.

> > > **"The Living World of Guild Wars 2 is a great way for us to accomplish all of that. "**

> > > Let that sink in.

> > It's not a new claim. It's very old one - they made it first time during **LS1**. Unfortunately, the past experiences have shown they were never able to deliver on it.

>

> Your point is? (serious question)

> You mean this sentence is irrelevant since they wrote it once before?

No, i meant that based on past experiences, you should not expect too much out of it. Not only their previous attempts to live up to that idea were a failure, but also they've shown us that their definition of an expac-equivalent content is much, much wider than for most people, and includes things that are on a far much smaller scale than the expacs we've got so far (hint: according to Anet, **LS2** was an expac-level content).

 

[robertthebard.8150]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said:

> > It's way too soon to make assumptions that GW2 is heading into a maintenance mode after LS5 / 6 or whether ANET will refocus on an expac at some point.

> No, it isn't. If they haven't started work on expac already, they won't have it ready for after LS5. If they have to do another back-to back LS to LS, it will delay possibility of expac by _another_ ~18 months. That's **2023** at the earliest. Possibly even later. By that time the point would be moot - either the game would be doing fine in expacless mode (something i don't really believe in, based on past experiences with Anet and their similar attempts so far), or the consequences would have already happened by then and expac would be too late to salvage the situation.

>

> Besides, if they don't have the resources to work on expac now, they are far less likely to have resources to work on big stuff later on as well.

>

> For me, if they aren't working on expac now, it doesn't mean "maintenance mode" yet, but it's definitely a "lowered resources and effort" one. And a greater possibility of actual maintenance mode in the future.

>

 

Um, you really can't have it both ways, so which one is it? If they can't work on an expansion while working on LSs, how are they going to have one in the works now to satisfy your conditions, but, at the same time, they can't have it in the works during another LS?

[sigur.9453]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"sigur.9453" said:

> > > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > > @"sigur.9453" said:

> > > > To be fair, if you read between the lines it exactly says that. The important sentence was filteterd through the pr department though.

> > > > **"The Living World of Guild Wars 2 is a great way for us to accomplish all of that. "**

> > > > Let that sink in.

> > > It's not a new claim. It's very old one - they made it first time during **LS1**. Unfortunately, the past experiences have shown they were never able to deliver on it.

> >

> > Your point is? (serious question)

> > You mean this sentence is irrelevant since they wrote it once before?

> No, i meant that based on past experiences, you should not expect too much out of it. Not only their previous attempts to live up to that idea were a failure, but also they've shown us that their definition of an expac-equivalent content is much, much wider than for most people, and includes things that are on a far much smaller scale than the expacs we've got so far (hint: according to Anet, **LS2** was an expac-level content).

>

 

Then we have a misunderstanding here. I quoted their sentence to show another poster where they (anet) were saying "no more exp. We double down on LS". I am not a fan of this myself. LS episodes won't bring me to reinstall the game. Agreeing on the rest of your post.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"robertthebard.8150" said:

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said:

> > > It's way too soon to make assumptions that GW2 is heading into a maintenance mode after LS5 / 6 or whether ANET will refocus on an expac at some point.

> > No, it isn't. If they haven't started work on expac already, they won't have it ready for after LS5. If they have to do another back-to back LS to LS, it will delay possibility of expac by _another_ ~18 months. That's **2023** at the earliest. Possibly even later. By that time the point would be moot - either the game would be doing fine in expacless mode (something i don't really believe in, based on past experiences with Anet and their similar attempts so far), or the consequences would have already happened by then and expac would be too late to salvage the situation.

> >

> > Besides, if they don't have the resources to work on expac now, they are far less likely to have resources to work on big stuff later on as well.

> >

> > For me, if they aren't working on expac now, it doesn't mean "maintenance mode" yet, but it's definitely a "lowered resources and effort" one. And a greater possibility of actual maintenance mode in the future.

> >

>

> Um, you really can't have it both ways, so which one is it? If they can't work on an expansion while working on LSs, how are they going to have one in the works now to satisfy your conditions, but, at the same time, they can't have it in the works during another LS?

I'm not sure i understand what you're trying to say here. I didn't say they can't work on an expansion while working on LS. I said, that they won't _release_ an expansion in the middle of a LS season. So, if they won't have it ready when LS5 ends (and they are unlikely to have it ready, unless they are already working on it), it will have to be delayed for another LS season. So, another 18-20 months (or more).

Well, i suppose in such a case they _could_ not start next LS at all, and simply do nothing waiting till expac is finished, but a longer content drought would hardly be healthy for the game. It's no longer in a state good enough to be able to withstand it without some really severe consequences.

 

Thus, if they aren't working on expac now, then the game **is** winding down from full support into a "reduced effort" mode. It may not be on life support yet, but it is a few steps closer towards it.

[Klowdy.3126]

> @"Healix.5819" said:

> Prior to the layoffs, in the context of season 5, they had said that the plan was to release expansion level stories and features over the next couple years. Disregarding that he had previously said there wouldn't be an expansion, at least not any time soon, that statement also implied there wouldn't be an expansion for years, which now makes a lot more sense considering they weren't working on GW2. With their other game now cancelled, and them hopefully back on GW2, they would just now be planning an expansion, so unless they rush it, it's still 2 years out and not something they can talk about.

 

I don't need new maps, stories, or masteries, I would just like some new elite specs. I enjoy new playstyles over new stories, and I dont need anything after mounts, lol.

[OutOfOrder.3719]

Although I am not a fan of the living world episodes due to primarily playing PvP and WvW content, i do feel the 3 new mounts that were introduced with Living World season 4 as great additions to Guild Wars 2.