shadowpass.4236 Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 > @Shikigami.4013 said: > It is hard to believe how bad some people are at understanding the meaning of words. A hit is one hit, a multi-hit are several hits. If someone says "a multi-hit only occurs when a target is down" that means it will only hit the target multiple times if the target is down. How often did it hit the player in the video while he was up? Once. Is one hit a multi-hit? No. The following hits started at hit number two, at which time the target was down. So it mutli-hitted a downed player. If the player had not gone down on the first hit, the other hits would not have happened. It is as simple as that. Show us a video with a player who gets hit like this while standing, then you can say the claim that it only multi-hits downed players is false. Thank you, well said. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aomine.5012 Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 > @Kitten.4162 said: > Gazelles can hit me for 15-18k with a charge before knocking me down for another 6k within 2-3 seconds. > > I've tested this several times within a dueling server, after I witnessed it in my combat logs several times within Plat+ ranked games. > > That's literally my entire health pool, with a cc in mind - while the ranger is hitting me on top of that. :s > > I never had that much of a problem with any of the HoT pets, so I feel like it's an overtuning issue overall. :# > > What do you guys think? I played a total of 40 games in this 2 days, and I haven't see a single good ranger in any match, let alone any good pet that causes me any source of trouble. Scourge, Spellbreaker are way more threatening. PS: I'm in platinum division atm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turk.5460 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 > @shadowpass.4236 said: > > @Turk.5460 said: > > I don't understand why this guy is so stalwartly defending an obvious bug that is detrimental to any sort of competitive experience. > > I'm not defending the bug. I'm saying, Anet can fix the bug IF they also address all of the other bugs we've been posting about since PoF came out. Yet all of those posts and threads that fellow ranger players have made and spent the time and effort to create have been completely ignored. The moment someone complains that ranger has something overpowered, Anet responds immediately. This shouldn't be the case and its what I'm arguing against right now. I think they can fix the bug regardless of whatever else you think needs looking at. This is game-breaking enough as is, nothing should bypass the downed mechanic in the way this does. If it wasn't a problem, there wouldn't be so many threads about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unholy Pillager.3791 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 > @Turk.5460 said: > > @shadowpass.4236 said: > > > @Turk.5460 said: > > > I don't understand why this guy is so stalwartly defending an obvious bug that is detrimental to any sort of competitive experience. > > > > I'm not defending the bug. I'm saying, Anet can fix the bug IF they also address all of the other bugs we've been posting about since PoF came out. Yet all of those posts and threads that fellow ranger players have made and spent the time and effort to create have been completely ignored. The moment someone complains that ranger has something overpowered, Anet responds immediately. This shouldn't be the case and its what I'm arguing against right now. > > I think they can fix the bug regardless of whatever else you think needs looking at. This is game-breaking enough as is, nothing should bypass the downed mechanic in the way this does. If it wasn't a problem, there wouldn't be so many threads about it. Scourge all but bypasses the downed mechanic. If someone is down and a Scourge puts an AoE on them, your team isn't getting them back up. That said, the Rock Gazelle does need a bug fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 > @"Unholy Pillager.3791" said: > > @Turk.5460 said: > > > @shadowpass.4236 said: > > > > @Turk.5460 said: > > > > I don't understand why this guy is so stalwartly defending an obvious bug that is detrimental to any sort of competitive experience. > > > > > > I'm not defending the bug. I'm saying, Anet can fix the bug IF they also address all of the other bugs we've been posting about since PoF came out. Yet all of those posts and threads that fellow ranger players have made and spent the time and effort to create have been completely ignored. The moment someone complains that ranger has something overpowered, Anet responds immediately. This shouldn't be the case and its what I'm arguing against right now. > > > > I think they can fix the bug regardless of whatever else you think needs looking at. This is game-breaking enough as is, nothing should bypass the downed mechanic in the way this does. If it wasn't a problem, there wouldn't be so many threads about it. > > Scourge all but bypasses the downed mechanic. If someone is down and a Scourge puts an AoE on them, your team isn't getting them back up. > > That said, the Rock Gazelle does need a bug fix. @"Turk.5460" "I think they can leave the rest of the class broken but fix the one thing that is performing better than it should." lol. Fix the Gazelle bug. Fix the rest of the bugs. That's all I'm asking. Also good point, a scourge pressing f1 and f5 is enough to kill someone if they just stand in the aoe for the entire duration haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unholy Pillager.3791 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 > @shadowpass.4236 said: > > @"Unholy Pillager.3791" said: > > > @Turk.5460 said: > > > > @shadowpass.4236 said: > > > > > @Turk.5460 said: > > > > > I don't understand why this guy is so stalwartly defending an obvious bug that is detrimental to any sort of competitive experience. > > > > > > > > I'm not defending the bug. I'm saying, Anet can fix the bug IF they also address all of the other bugs we've been posting about since PoF came out. Yet all of those posts and threads that fellow ranger players have made and spent the time and effort to create have been completely ignored. The moment someone complains that ranger has something overpowered, Anet responds immediately. This shouldn't be the case and its what I'm arguing against right now. > > > > > > I think they can fix the bug regardless of whatever else you think needs looking at. This is game-breaking enough as is, nothing should bypass the downed mechanic in the way this does. If it wasn't a problem, there wouldn't be so many threads about it. > > > > Scourge all but bypasses the downed mechanic. If someone is down and a Scourge puts an AoE on them, your team isn't getting them back up. > > > > That said, the Rock Gazelle does need a bug fix. > > "I think they can leave the rest of the class broken but fix the one thing that is performing better than it should." > > lol. > > Fix the Gazelle bug. Fix the rest of the bugs. That's all I'm asking. > > Also good point, a scourge pressing f1 and f5 is enough to kill someone if they just stand in the aoe for the entire duration haha I never said that the Soulbeast doesn't need QoL improvements and possibly buffs (in fact, I specifically _did_ say that it needs those things in threads related to that subject), but I do think that being able to bypass downed state is a problem, no matter who does it. On another note, I'm actually wondering about the mechanics in play here. The charge attack instantly kills a downed player when it hits them, but after testing what should be the same skill in Beast Form, it doesn't appear to do that. What changes do they make to the skills in Beast Form versus when your pet uses them and why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 > @"Unholy Pillager.3791" said: > > @shadowpass.4236 said: > > > @"Unholy Pillager.3791" said: > > > > @Turk.5460 said: > > > > > @shadowpass.4236 said: > > > > > > @Turk.5460 said: > > > > > > I don't understand why this guy is so stalwartly defending an obvious bug that is detrimental to any sort of competitive experience. > > > > > > > > > > I'm not defending the bug. I'm saying, Anet can fix the bug IF they also address all of the other bugs we've been posting about since PoF came out. Yet all of those posts and threads that fellow ranger players have made and spent the time and effort to create have been completely ignored. The moment someone complains that ranger has something overpowered, Anet responds immediately. This shouldn't be the case and its what I'm arguing against right now. > > > > > > > > I think they can fix the bug regardless of whatever else you think needs looking at. This is game-breaking enough as is, nothing should bypass the downed mechanic in the way this does. If it wasn't a problem, there wouldn't be so many threads about it. > > > > > > Scourge all but bypasses the downed mechanic. If someone is down and a Scourge puts an AoE on them, your team isn't getting them back up. > > > > > > That said, the Rock Gazelle does need a bug fix. > > > > "I think they can leave the rest of the class broken but fix the one thing that is performing better than it should." > > > > lol. > > > > Fix the Gazelle bug. Fix the rest of the bugs. That's all I'm asking. > > > > Also good point, a scourge pressing f1 and f5 is enough to kill someone if they just stand in the aoe for the entire duration haha > > I never said that the Soulbeast doesn't need QoL improvements and possibly buffs (in fact, I specifically _did_ say that it needs those things in threads related to that subject), but I do think that being able to bypass downed state is a problem, no matter who does it. > > On another note, I'm actually wondering about the mechanics in play here. The charge attack instantly kills a downed player when it hits them, but after testing what should be the same skill in Beast Form, it doesn't appear to do that. What changes do they make to the skills in Beast Form versus when your pet uses them and why? Oh you quoted me too soon. The top 3 lines were directed towards Turk. Gazelle's Charge and Beastmode Charge are 2 separate skills with the same name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapell.1346 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Can we just look into the not bright side? some of you whining way back that Downstate ruin the game and must remove it entirely, for example: Physical elite skill is a step forward and now that we have the tech to bypass downstate mechanic maybe its an added feat using Exclusive pet or an Exercise to show what they can achieve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostball.9108 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 https://clips.twitch.tv/SpookyAmazonianButterKappaPride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 They need to nerf gazelle's charge damage by 50-60% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerivek.5740 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 > @Turk.5460 said: > I think they can fix the bug regardless of whatever else you think needs looking at. This is game-breaking enough as is, nothing should bypass the downed mechanic in the way this does. If it wasn't a problem, there wouldn't be so many threads about it. Haha I wish this was the case. People were still making daily threads whining about DH right up until PoF. People complain about stuff that isn't OP alll the time. Especially once it become THE thing to complain about. Then everyone jumps on board to use it as a reason to justify their lack of success. Also, this is not me saying that this bug doesn't need to be fixed, because it does...but the amount of complaint threads has very little relevance to what actually is/isn't OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigpapasmurf.5623 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 > @EnderzShadow.2506 said: > This isn't going to be changed. > There are some hard counters in spvp. as Archon mentions above me. > It won't matter in high lvl pvp. > > And most importantly, it's a counter to scourge. > > In the time it takes to get one stomp, a scourge can load me up with condis and murder urdle urdle me. > Fair? I think not. > > Who knows though. Seems like Anet is playing favorites. "We want to lower the size of the points in spvp". Soulbeast in general is a counter to scourge. Pewpew = Scourge dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huehuehueh.5106 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 hey anet, what in the bill cosby is this kitten? https://i.imgur.com/1zuGTOl.jpg 26,252 + 8,507 +14,461 + 8,507 + 14,461 = Instantly blasted with 72,188 damage FROM A PET. My health pool is 23k... Also no downstate lmao! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerivek.5740 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 > @huehuehueh.5106 said: > hey anet, what in the bill cosby is this kitten? > https://i.imgur.com/1zuGTOl.jpg > > 26,252 + 8,507 +14,461 + 8,507 + 14,461 = > Instantly blasted with 72,188 damage FROM A PET. My health pool is 23k... > > Also no downstate lmao! This has already been explained countless times, but that damage wasn't instant and no downstate is clearly not the case. Again people, this bug needs to be fixed but stop claiming that the damage is instant and doesn't have anything to do with downstate. It does nobody any good to spread misinformation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unholy Pillager.3791 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 > @huehuehueh.5106 said: > hey anet, what in the bill cosby is this kitten? > https://i.imgur.com/1zuGTOl.jpg > > 26,252 + 8,507 +14,461 + 8,507 + 14,461 = > Instantly blasted with 72,188 damage FROM A PET. My health pool is 23k... > > Also no downstate lmao! The 26k hit was from the initial hit. Everything else was while you were downed, because of the bug. If you hadn't been downed by the initial hit, none of the others would have occurred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witimir.5982 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Someone can provide an accurate way to reproduce the inflated that is, the fouled Damage from Gazelle? Personally, I did not find it. But I see that one and the same skill can be 1,5k and maybe 7-9k (non-crit). The difference of 400% -500% is abnormal. I think it's a mistake in calculating damage, not the damage itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unholy Pillager.3791 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 > @Witimir.5982 said: > Someone can provide an accurate way to reproduce the inflated that is, the fouled Damage from Gazelle? > Personally, I did not find it. > > But I see that one and the same skill can be 1,5k and maybe 7-9k (non-crit). > The difference of 400% -500% is abnormal. > > I think it's a mistake in calculating damage, not the damage itself. This is just guesswork, but it looks like they stacked as much might/damage as they could using NM/BM/MM. WH5, maul (don't hit your target with it, just use it for the damage boost), sic em, frost spirit, heal as one (for the extra boons). Yes, it's just as abysmal as an actual build as you would expect. Shockingly, being able to possibly one hit kill a single (oblivious) person once every forty seconds and being useless the rest of the time is not the recipe for an effective PvP build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 > @shadowpass.4236 said: > Okay, well I'm fine with balancing everything overall, but why start with Gazelle when there are much more pressing matters to tend to such as SCOURGE AND SPELLBREAKER?!! Why start nerfing things on ranger when there are other things that are more concerning to the balance and overall meta of the game? -.- Just casually observing the whataboutery here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurrTheKing.8571 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 I find the biggest problem is that in the chaos of a mid fight it can often be impossible to see a tiny deer charging you. Other high damage attacks like Eviscerate have a very obvious animation. While the animation on the Rock Gazelle is distinctive, it's still rather small. It has always made way more sense to me for pets to be an extension of the player used for utility. I'm fine with a damage buff on Ranger but only if it's from the player, not the pet. They need to rework how player "controlled" AI works in general. Maybe have them be " attached" to the player and using abilities makes them five forward if they're melee or just give the player a casting time just like any other skill where they point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witimir.5982 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 > @"Unholy Pillager.3791" said: > > @Witimir.5982 said: > > Someone can provide an accurate way to reproduce the inflated that is, the fouled Damage from Gazelle? > > Personally, I did not find it. > > > > But I see that one and the same skill can be 1,5k and maybe 7-9k (non-crit). > > The difference of 400% -500% is abnormal. > > > > I think it's a mistake in calculating damage, not the damage itself. > > This is just guesswork, but it looks like they stacked as much might/damage as they could using NM/BM/MM. WH5, maul (don't hit your target with it, just use it for the damage boost), sic em, frost spirit, heal as one (for the extra boons). > > Yes, it's just as abysmal as an actual build as you would expect. Shockingly, being able to possibly one hit kill a single (oblivious) person once every forty seconds and being useless the rest of the time is not the recipe for an effective PvP build. first is: All that You listed can not give a damage increase of even + 100%. Here we are talking about clearly fixed + 400% - 500% of the tooltip. second is: Even using only everything You listed, cannot reproduce with 100% probability anomalously high damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unholy Pillager.3791 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 > @Witimir.5982 said: > > @"Unholy Pillager.3791" said: > > > @Witimir.5982 said: > > > Someone can provide an accurate way to reproduce the inflated that is, the fouled Damage from Gazelle? > > > Personally, I did not find it. > > > > > > But I see that one and the same skill can be 1,5k and maybe 7-9k (non-crit). > > > The difference of 400% -500% is abnormal. > > > > > > I think it's a mistake in calculating damage, not the damage itself. > > > > This is just guesswork, but it looks like they stacked as much might/damage as they could using NM/BM/MM. WH5, maul (don't hit your target with it, just use it for the damage boost), sic em, frost spirit, heal as one (for the extra boons). > > > > Yes, it's just as abysmal as an actual build as you would expect. Shockingly, being able to possibly one hit kill a single (oblivious) person once every forty seconds and being useless the rest of the time is not the recipe for an effective PvP build. > > first is: > All that You listed can not give a damage increase of even + 100%. > Here we are talking about clearly fixed + 400% - 500% of the tooltip. > > second is: > Even using everything You listed, cannot reproduce with 100% probability anomalously high damage. The target has to have a downed state. Let me guess, you were testing on something that doesn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaklex.6308 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Sounds like what pets need is a lock auto target with a built in snap to target so that they won't miss moving targets...of course whether that's feasible or not is questionable, and I can see the arguments against something like that, but then you could adjust the damage output accordingly knowing it will always hit your target(without touching the utility skill of the pet at all). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witimir.5982 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 > @"Unholy Pillager.3791" said: > > @Witimir.5982 said: > > > @"Unholy Pillager.3791" said: > > > > @Witimir.5982 said: > > > > Someone can provide an accurate way to reproduce the inflated that is, the fouled Damage from Gazelle? > > > > Personally, I did not find it. > > > > > > > > But I see that one and the same skill can be 1,5k and maybe 7-9k (non-crit). > > > > The difference of 400% -500% is abnormal. > > > > > > > > I think it's a mistake in calculating damage, not the damage itself. > > > > > > This is just guesswork, but it looks like they stacked as much might/damage as they could using NM/BM/MM. WH5, maul (don't hit your target with it, just use it for the damage boost), sic em, frost spirit, heal as one (for the extra boons). > > > > > > Yes, it's just as abysmal as an actual build as you would expect. Shockingly, being able to possibly one hit kill a single (oblivious) person once every forty seconds and being useless the rest of the time is not the recipe for an effective PvP build. > > > > first is: > > All that You listed can not give a damage increase of even + 100%. > > Here we are talking about clearly fixed + 400% - 500% of the tooltip. > > > > second is: > > Even using everything You listed, cannot reproduce with 100% probability anomalously high damage. > > The target has to have a downed state. Let me guess, you were testing on something that doesn't? The moment with the knocked down state slipped away from me, but only confirms my idea of an erroneous calculation of the damage caused Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unholy Pillager.3791 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 > @Witimir.5982 said: > > @"Unholy Pillager.3791" said: > > > @Witimir.5982 said: > > > > @"Unholy Pillager.3791" said: > > > > > @Witimir.5982 said: > > > > > Someone can provide an accurate way to reproduce the inflated that is, the fouled Damage from Gazelle? > > > > > Personally, I did not find it. > > > > > > > > > > But I see that one and the same skill can be 1,5k and maybe 7-9k (non-crit). > > > > > The difference of 400% -500% is abnormal. > > > > > > > > > > I think it's a mistake in calculating damage, not the damage itself. > > > > > > > > This is just guesswork, but it looks like they stacked as much might/damage as they could using NM/BM/MM. WH5, maul (don't hit your target with it, just use it for the damage boost), sic em, frost spirit, heal as one (for the extra boons). > > > > > > > > Yes, it's just as abysmal as an actual build as you would expect. Shockingly, being able to possibly one hit kill a single (oblivious) person once every forty seconds and being useless the rest of the time is not the recipe for an effective PvP build. > > > > > > first is: > > > All that You listed can not give a damage increase of even + 100%. > > > Here we are talking about clearly fixed + 400% - 500% of the tooltip. > > > > > > second is: > > > Even using everything You listed, cannot reproduce with 100% probability anomalously high damage. > > > > The target has to have a downed state. Let me guess, you were testing on something that doesn't? > > The moment with the knocked down state slipped away from me, but only confirms my idea of an erroneous calculation of the damage caused What do you mean, "The moment with the knocked down state slipped away from me"? It is not a problem with a damage calculation, what's going on is that it is _hitting several times instead of just once_ when they target is downed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 > @Witimir.5982 said: > > @"Unholy Pillager.3791" said: > > > @Witimir.5982 said: > > > Someone can provide an accurate way to reproduce the inflated that is, the fouled Damage from Gazelle? > > > Personally, I did not find it. > > > > > > But I see that one and the same skill can be 1,5k and maybe 7-9k (non-crit). > > > The difference of 400% -500% is abnormal. > > > > > > I think it's a mistake in calculating damage, not the damage itself. > > > > This is just guesswork, but it looks like they stacked as much might/damage as they could using NM/BM/MM. WH5, maul (don't hit your target with it, just use it for the damage boost), sic em, frost spirit, heal as one (for the extra boons). > > > > Yes, it's just as abysmal as an actual build as you would expect. Shockingly, being able to possibly one hit kill a single (oblivious) person once every forty seconds and being useless the rest of the time is not the recipe for an effective PvP build. > > first is: > All that You listed can not give a damage increase of even + 100%... 25 might on the Gazelle is a 40% power increase. Opening Strike will be 100% crit chance, with 170% crit damage. Remorseless can add another 25% to that. An AoO is 50% additional damage. Sic Em is 40% on top of that. Add in some vulnerability. You can get way above 100% increase, but you are essentially useless the rest of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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