Glacial.9516 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 > @Kichwas.7152 said: > > @Zaltys.7649 said: > > So a new player buys the expansion (note that the base game is no longer sold), and finds out that he can't actually access the content that was advertised. > > > > I can't imagine that turning out well. > > > Well... for contrast... this is exactly what FFXIV does. Not only do you have to level all the way through, you have to complete the 'main story quest' for all past content. Roughly 300-500 quests... each of which is a chain process (quests there are not just, go here and do this... each quest is about the length of an entire chapter of a GW2 'story'... you can be sitting at top level for a couple of months before you are even allowed into the next stage of the zones because you still have a few hundred 'chapters' to finish...) > > FFXIV still manages to get new people to put up with that, and is still growing. I think they overdo this in the opposite extreme from GW2... but they get away with it. > This is very true, and it's one of the main reasons I utterly despise the FF14 story. It's in complete contrast to the way (I believe) it should work. Rush through a story with more fetch quests than content just so that you can unlock new classes and areas only to find even more quests barring you from the next map. I much prefer to meander and explore a map, unlocking things as I go (and turning back if I discover mobs are too strong). Anyway. I think GW2 has it right. Let the players decide for themselves. If they trip and fall so be it, it's a learning experience. That said we could use more tutorials (as was said earlier in the thread) esp. on Break bars and Combo fields, perhaps with projectiles and reflects as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowywonders.1378 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 At first, I was completely against this idea because the start of the game is very dry compared to end game, I would recommend to everyone to use the boost right away. But now, these people that boosted are complaining that the game is too hard and cry for an easier game. It happened with HoT and PoF. The requirement should be to have 3 level 80s (different proffs) then you can use it. That, or have a little test area to prove you know how the game works. I say this as a purely selfish reason, I don't want the game to get watered down anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaltys.7649 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 > @Kichwas.7152 said: > They should be pushing new people to Path of Fire. It's vibrant and alive with story, and you can play it at a casual pace without being stressed. A story full of unfamiliar names and places, I wouldn't expect new players to make much sense out of it. Especially if they've never played GW1. And it's been five years since the launch, more than enough time for old GW1 players to jump aboard, so whoever joins now is probably completely new. Certainly doesn't help that season 1 is gone, and 2 and 3 are behind paywalls. Imagine playing the PoF storyline without knowing anything about Rytlock, Canach, Taimi, Balthazar, Glint, Aurene, etc. It's not going to be an enjoyable story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dovienya.6597 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 A fresh account instead of being ported to the Silverwastes could instead be ported to their race's starting zone when the activate the boost, and be required to play through a heart, get lead to the dodging tutorial, do a dynamic event, look at a vista, use their city's bank, give pop up advice about traits, which other weapons are available to the class, how to join a guild and things when the tutorial is over... a link to a wiki page for future reference... you know, an organized tutorial the way most themepark MMO's do it? Since they aren't expecting a lot of the players to stick around in Core Tyria long enough to benefit from NPE, this would be a compromise. Something that would take very little time but get them started learning how to play GW2. It's also something that would take an experienced player all of 3 minutes to complete, in the event of a duplicate account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omar Aschi Popp.7496 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 > @Menadena.7482 said: > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > > > @Zeivu.3615 said: > > > > @Shirlias.8104 said: > > > > What you suggest may be right, but also could be perceived really bad by somebody who purchased the game. > > > > > > > > A friend ask another friend to come to gw2 to play together. > > > > The friend is not sure cause he doesn't like to lvl up in another mmo, but hey there's a boost lvl cap! > > > > So the friend tries but he's stuck to use the boost till 1000 ap ( which are nothing to me... combo fields, mechanics, attack glitches and so on can be learned through hours of playing, and could not be necessarily related to the number of achies ). > > > > > > > > Also what about a solo player? > > > > If you buy the game you'll have a boost! But you can only use it after hours of playing! > > > > > > > > Though i pretty understand and share your thoughts, i am not sure about the solution you propose. > > > > > > God forbid you have to play the MMORPG game you buy... Honestly, I have been against the booster from the beginning, but if it _**HAS**_ to exist, it should be gated by earning lv80 for the first time. > > > > This. Same with wp unlock. Behind 100% map on 1 char > > Which I completely disagree with. Just because I do not have every last POI on the same character I can not unlock WPs? Kitten that. Do what you want. Tired of arguing. Back in my day we had to play the game, you know, to play the game. For fun of playing it. Back in my day cheat codes didn't cost money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahlen.7591 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 G> @Ellisande.5218 said: > "I've lost track of the number of players who were outright lost and frustrated with their experience in Heart of Thorns and Path Fire." > > I'm a veteran returning player who had several 80s under my belt when I tried out Heart of Thorns. It was one of the worst MMO experiences of my life and easily the worst expansion to any game I've ever played. Everything was wrong. It felt like Anet listened to a small niche of players and made an expansion catered specifically to those players and no one else. To counter this anecdote with another and make it pointless: I'm also a veteran who had several 80's and Heart of Thorns was of the best MMO experiences of my life, and easily the best expansion to any game I've ever played. To the topic: Bad players are gonna bad whether they're boosted or not. Don't punish new good players trying to stop the bad ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellsqueen.3045 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 > @Dovienya.6597 said: > A fresh account instead of being ported to the Silverwastes could instead be ported to their race's starting zone when the activate the boost, and be required to play through a heart, get lead to the dodging tutorial, do a dynamic event, look at a vista, use their city's bank, give pop up advice about traits, which other weapons are available to the class, how to join a guild and things when the tutorial is over... a link to a wiki page for future reference... you know, an organized tutorial the way most themepark MMO's do it? Since they aren't expecting a lot of the players to stick around in Core Tyria long enough to benefit from NPE, this would be a compromise. Something that would take very little time but get them started learning how to play GW2. > > It's also something that would take an experienced player all of 3 minutes to complete, in the event of a duplicate account. > > > The only issue I see with having a boosted player start in their cultural city that even though they are scaled down they can still EASILY destroy those mobs, so easy that they don't learn anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mea.5491 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 > @hellsqueen.3045 said: > But many end up dragging down the team in certain situations and in others end up hindering themselves. > I recruited two people from the Eater of Souls discussion not too long ago who claimed the fight was too hard. I took them into my guild and we got them new gear and gave them a build to compliment it based on the weapons they liked using the most and suddenly they realized that they were stronger and far more survivable because they were suddenly killing things more than dying. Again, this depends on the player. My friend who just got GW2 is doing fine in the Soldier gear he got with the max lvl booster and wants to keep it (he always plays tank in traditional MMOs). He finished PoF story in Soldier's 100% solo without issues. Killing things faster does not mean more survivability. I've been playing GW2 since beta and main an invincible Celestial Engineer. Killing things faster didn't work for me. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kichwas.7152 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 > @Glacial.9516 said: > > @Kichwas.7152 said: > > > @Zaltys.7649 said: > > > So a new player buys the expansion (note that the base game is no longer sold), and finds out that he can't actually access the content that was advertised. > > > > > > I can't imagine that turning out well. > > > > Well... for contrast... this is exactly what FFXIV does. Not only do you have to level all the way through, you have to complete the 'main story quest' for all past content. Roughly 300-500 quests... each of which is a chain process (quests there are not just, go here and do this... each quest is about the length of an entire chapter of a GW2 'story'... you can be sitting at top level for a couple of months before you are even allowed into the next stage of the zones because you still have a few hundred 'chapters' to finish...) > > > > FFXIV still manages to get new people to put up with that, and is still growing. I think they overdo this in the opposite extreme from GW2... but they get away with it. > > > This is very true, and it's one of the main reasons I utterly despise the FF14 story. It's in complete contrast to the way (I believe) it should work. I actually rate their story pretty high from a plot, writing, and voice acting point of view. But the delivery sucks. And yes - too many fetch quests. I think the MMO that currently has the best system for story in quests is ESO. Just the right pace for each of them, and they're all optional - but I find that if I start one I can't get myself to log out because it gets to be too interesting. I'm less impressed with GW2 story. I find it very easy to log out and even not come back for months or years. It doesn't hook me. But that's another topic... The reason I partially agree with the OP is because right now new players are getting a boost that sends them straight into 'volume 2' of a novel. And this volume is the one in the plot where all the heck breaks loose. Heart of Thorns is just too rough of content for people to start in - and it's very deep through a story that they will have all missed. I think if people aren't encouraged to avoid it until they're ready for it... the game risks losing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellsqueen.3045 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 > @Mea.5491 said: > > @hellsqueen.3045 said: > > But many end up dragging down the team in certain situations and in others end up hindering themselves. > > I recruited two people from the Eater of Souls discussion not too long ago who claimed the fight was too hard. I took them into my guild and we got them new gear and gave them a build to compliment it based on the weapons they liked using the most and suddenly they realized that they were stronger and far more survivable because they were suddenly killing things more than dying. > > Again, this depends on the player. My friend who just got GW2 is doing fine in the Soldier gear he got with the max lvl booster and wants to keep it (he always plays tank in traditional MMOs). He finished PoF story in Soldier's 100% solo without issues. Killing things faster does not mean more survivability. I've been playing GW2 since beta and main an invincible Celestial Engineer. Killing things faster didn't work for me. :) Obviously it does not mean more survivability, but lets say your friend is using condi focused abilities on soldier. How truly effective is it then? Someone jumping right into the game may not have the understanding yet that you don't want to use dual pistols on a soldier stats engineer because the condi will do nothing where as if you stat for carrion on a scrapper with the other right traits you can get a fairly tough built damage over time class where your pistol 4 does 20k burn damage and your toolbelt skill with rocket boots can do 10k and then you get all the bleeds, poisons and confusion. Not to mention the gyros make for a fairly survivable condi class. I run a mismatched minion - power and condi necro on reaper and in my guild hall 2v1 she is the reigning champion. It took a long time but it doesn't matter if I verse condi classes, supports, tanks or power classes, she pretty much stomps no matter what characters people bring in. These are people who I consider beyond competent with build creation and others follow what is meta. My necro was an accidental creation during my leveling and learning stages and she wouldn't be what she is now if it wasn't for the time I spent actually learning and leveling. I level boosted my engineer when we got the booster from HoT. I got soldier stat gear and that served me well on my scrapper for a while. Since the release of holosmith, I turned her into a condi-scrapper for the sake of aesthetics and turned my asuran into a holosmith on hybrid soldier/zerk. Today I turned my Herald into a hybrid from soldier to most zerk with soldier trinkets. Both the builds I had were fine but actually caused them to not get most out of a single life. I have a guardian who is a tank, Cleric build. Comparatively, having my Herald be a tank just felt weak, it felt like I was not surviving long enough versus the contribution I was making even though I was still doing great. Now I am doing even better and this is something you need to play to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellsqueen.3045 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 > @Kichwas.7152 said: > > @Glacial.9516 said: > > > @Kichwas.7152 said: > > > > @Zaltys.7649 said: > > > > So a new player buys the expansion (note that the base game is no longer sold), and finds out that he can't actually access the content that was advertised. > > > > > > > > I can't imagine that turning out well. > > > > > > Well... for contrast... this is exactly what FFXIV does. Not only do you have to level all the way through, you have to complete the 'main story quest' for all past content. Roughly 300-500 quests... each of which is a chain process (quests there are not just, go here and do this... each quest is about the length of an entire chapter of a GW2 'story'... you can be sitting at top level for a couple of months before you are even allowed into the next stage of the zones because you still have a few hundred 'chapters' to finish...) > > > > > > FFXIV still manages to get new people to put up with that, and is still growing. I think they overdo this in the opposite extreme from GW2... but they get away with it. > > > > > This is very true, and it's one of the main reasons I utterly despise the FF14 story. It's in complete contrast to the way (I believe) it should work. > > I actually rate their story pretty high from a plot, writing, and voice acting point of view. But the delivery sucks. And yes - too many fetch quests. > > I think the MMO that currently has the best system for story in quests is ESO. Just the right pace for each of them, and they're all optional - but I find that if I start one I can't get myself to log out because it gets to be too interesting. > > I'm less impressed with GW2 story. I find it very easy to log out and even not come back for months or years. It doesn't hook me. > > But that's another topic... > > The reason I partially agree with the OP is because right now new players are getting a boost that sends them straight into 'volume 2' of a novel. And this volume is the one in the plot where all the heck breaks loose. > > Heart of Thorns is just too rough of content for people to start in - and it's very deep through a story that they will have all missed. I think if people aren't encouraged to avoid it until they're ready for it... the game risks losing them. > Each to their own I guess because GW2 story has me hooked whereas I got ESO and played it for a bit and I haven't touched it since which is a shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasimir.6239 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 I said it before, and I'll say it again: restricting newer players/accounts from playing where the experienced crowd is will do nothing but frustrate those who prefer to learn with/from others and by jumping in at the deep end. There's no hard and fast rule that fits all players and works for everybody, and artificially gating new players will lead to just as many frustrated people giving up prematurely on the game as will the current way of "everybody's allowed to make their own mistakes". I'm sorry to say, but a lot of the replies in this thread that call for an artificial gating come off as not having the best interest of the new players in mind but rather as wanting to not be bothered by people who aren't as experienced yet. We used to have those kinds of conflicts in dungeons, where a vocal group of veterans regularly complained about new players coming into their dungeon parties. Later on it was fractals and raids, then open world metas, and now it's apparently spread to all open world content? I hate to burst your bubble, but no kind of gating the level 80 boost will keep you safe from encountering people that don't know as much as you do, or that simply prefer to play differently. There's lots and lots of people around who have been playing for years and still don't know the first thing about combat mechanics, crowd controls, or condition removal, and even less about mechanics of large meta events and fractal/dungeon/raid fights. There are enough people around that have been playing for 5 years and still down if they encounter a random veteran on their own. Prior to the introduction of the lvl 80 boost, there were regular posts on the forums asking about the quickest way to level. Many of those that have played other MMOs are conditioned to grind grind grind their way to endgame. Many people have given up on this game because they started, beelined to level 80, and found themselves in over their head without the expected carrot to guide them to the ultimate loot pinatas long before the introduction of the lvl 80 boost, and all the boost has done is spared them a few days of grind they perceived as necessary without understanding how this game works. The level 80 boost isn't the problem. Intollerance of less experienced people and people who play differently is the problem. No form of artificially gating the current content will change this. Accept that not everyone has the same goals that you do. Accept that not everyone likes the same kind of content that you do. Accept that this game isn't for everyone, and not everyone is willing to give it a fair chance to see it for what it really is, instead expecting it to emulate this or that other game. Accept that playing an MMO means you'll run across people (in open world as well as in instanced content if you are open to playing instanced content with strangers) with goals conflicting with yours. Accept that GW2 was built with player cooperation and player freedom in mind. Having low or no gates to the majority of content, relying on the community to help each other, and letting less experienced players learn from the more experienced by allowing access to the same content is the core of this game. The level 80 boost helps to allow players to mingle even now when two expansions, gliding, and mounts are threatening to separate the playerbase. I personally think it's doing an awesome job in giving new players just as much freedom to find their niche as experienced veterans. Don't try to shut everyone out just because not everyone can deal with that freedom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odinens.5920 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 > @Faaris.8013 said: > You could have told your friends how this game is, and suggested to them to use the boost, but start playing the story and the starter maps. After all, the level gets adjusted and you cannot kill everything with ease in the starter zones after using the boost. The story leads you to many zones, and you will explore and learn the game and class along the way. There is nothing a character that got the boost cannot do that a low level character can. The boost is great, as long as you don't skip content as a newbie. > > I would suggest to a new player to use the boost, get gliding and the raptor, then go back and start the main story, get hero points in the starter zones, explore, do events. And get into the jungle and the desert when the story leads you to them. The whole PoF story makes no sense if you don't know what happened before anyway. I have 6 level 80s, only 2 have I leveled manually to that point. Gotta use those tomes and boosts on something, after all. Anyway, my 1st 80 was manual, and after playing through the game realized, there was no way in hell I was going to boost a toon and automatically start level 80 content without learning how to play the class 1st (I die enough on classes I do know). I am currently playing through the story, beginning with the starter zones, on 3 different 80s. I recommend this to people ALL the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kichwas.7152 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 > @Rasimir.6239 said: > I said it before, and I'll say it again: restricting newer players/accounts from playing where the experienced crowd is will do nothing but frustrate those who prefer to learn with/from others and by jumping in at the deep end. There's no hard and fast rule that fits all players and works for everybody, and artificially gating new players will lead to just as many frustrated people giving up prematurely on the game as will the current way of "everybody's allowed to make their own mistakes". > I agree, to this part of your point... But I think we're good on that now. PoF is more self-contained in it's story. You can jump in and just play. And the content lets you play at a more reasonable pace. HoT was a mess of constant mob aggro, even when standing on a waypoint... PoF has a lot of towns and safe spots, and even out in the 'questing areas' there is more pacing and spacing... Action is 'contained' to spots that you can go to or get out of better. - That makes for a decent new player experience. It is not good... going through level 1-80 zones first would be better... but it's not horrible like HoT was... I kind of like how ESO does it. Everything scales everywhere - or rather, all characters are scaled to max-level CP 160 (the equiv of exotic gear), all the time, everywhere except in raids and 'veteran dungeons' (like explorables here). The result is that the entire game is the endgame, and all zones are busy. GW2 does that too... but ESO scales better - everyone scales to the same power level, so they balanced the whole game to that level. There is no going to a starter zone and being 'on the top end of it and so a bit too powerful' so people visit them all. So they have no need for boosts... because it's built in, you join there, and you can just go meet your friends and game together and get the same value out of the experience. GW2 was like the 'version 1.5' of this scaling concept... (FFXIV is like the 'limited scaling' - in dungeons and events only), and ESO is the refined version 2.0 that finished implementing the idea GW2 started (ESO started as a horrible mess where you couldn't even group with a same level player standing right next to you if you were on different stages of a quest - scaling was patched in and player-player phasing was patched out... proving that it's never too late to fix a game). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kharmin.7683 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 > @Ellisande.5218 said: >.A better option would be to ask Anet to restrict players to vanilla GW2 maps or PoF maps UNTIL the player has finished the story in either vanilla GW2 or PoF and only then open up HoT. I respectfully disagree. One of the best things that GW2 has going for it is the many things one can do without being forced to do any one thing. I really don't enjoy the personal story, or much of the LS either, and would hate for HoT to be gated behind such a requirement. I am a casual player who gets through zones as best as I am able (solo or with friends) and would be disappointed to not be able to access content based on your suggestion. On point with the topic: I understand some of the frustrations voiced in this thread with regards to new players leveling to 80 and then being clueless. In my opinion, that's on them. If they don't take the time to understand the builds and work with them (call it practice if you like), then who am I to complain? Also, I completely agree that the significant lack of tutorials and/or game manuals makes the learning curve very steep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daynay.1089 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 I understand what the OP is saying, my daughter got my level 80 boost , and then didn't know how to play. what they do have is a trial period to see if your gonna like it or not. I was saving mine just to use the trial period out on different professions. So they do give you an option. I think locking it on new accounts until they hit level 20 is a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maulclaw.4365 Posted October 11, 2017 Author Share Posted October 11, 2017 > @sephiroth.4217 said: > I'm only speaking from the last weeks experience. > > - Introduced a friend to the game under free to play > - upgraded his account with both expansions this weekend just past > - he boosted his Warrior to level 80 > - he spent half hour on the tutorial before I used a Teleport to a friend to find out he was just doing some random event. > - I gave him a brief tutorial about combat mechanics, gear, traits, loot, events and everything else he wanted to know > - I spent 150g on his gear > - I spent 2k gems on his outfits, gliders and such > - he spent another $50 for inventory tabs and bits n pieces > - I dropped a Guild Keg, We got drunk and we have both been exploring HoT and PoF as level 80's, enjoying the game thoroughly. When I'm not online he says the expansion maps are a bit hard so he sticks to his personal story quest until I log on again. > > > I am really happy we have level 80 boosters and as he said, without it, he wouldn't have bothered to get any further into this game. > Comes off as a little petty that the reasoning for not wanting the boosters is "I had to level mine to 80 4 years ago they should do the same", that's like, toddler mentality. So much gold and resources spent on a fresh new account. A part of me was expecting you'd end up writing that your friend lost interest in the game even after so much currency had been spent... because, honestly, I have seen this happen. > @DeadTreeJig.6714 said: > This may have already been mentioned, but why not focus more on the boost trial, perhaps requiring it to be used for x hours before you can use it. Adding a little map variety would be good as well, the silverwastes can be pretty dry (pun intended). > > My girls (10 y/o) bought HoT recently and wanted to boost to get their gliders. They'd only played about 20 hours so recommended they boosts rangers if only for survivability, which they did, and took them in to VB. Afterwards they happily went back to their personal stories. Last week we went to AB to get them bristlebacks, then to southsun cove for the reef drake, then again they went back to central Tyria. They are slowly getting used to harder content which helps them in leveling their other characters and will let them ease fully into HoT when they are ready. They wanted to do the octovine yesterday, considering how confusing it can be for a new (and boosted) player they both did well. They only had 13 keys each so they didn't get to fully enjoy the rewards. I think that it's good that a parent is supervising what their children do online, but... I don't think that children that young should be invested in MMORPGs, especially when Guild Wars 2 can show quite the wicked side when it comes to its community and even some of the themes. Living World Season 2 explored some rather mature themes regarding the main characters and their past. The dialogue is not as childish as it was presented in the Personal Story. This is obviously just my opinion, but when I was around that age all I did was watch cartoons and movies and play singleplayer games at my own pacing without having to deal with other players and their shenanigans. But still, it is good to see them picking up the game at their own pace unlike most adults. > @Kichwas.7152 said: > I don't think they need to lock the boosters as much as lockout Heart of Thorns... > > Heart of Thorns is very unfriendly content even for experienced players. Everything is packed so tightly with aggressive veteran and champion mobs and lots of confusing visual cues blocking your ability to know where to go and how to get there. > > Orr is also unfriendly but for different reasons: it is visually monotonous and unpleasant. It also thick with aggressive mobs, of all the same type, and unless you have done the personal story - the entire place makes no sense and makes you feel the game lacks any budget to create dynamic content... > > They should be pushing new people to Path of Fire. It's vibrant and alive with story, and you can play it at a casual pace without being stressed. It shows a wide variety - though it is also packed with a LOT of repetition, it is not as bad as the other level 80 spots. Plus you get the story with it, and 'quest hubs' that all have their own mini stories. > > Of all the level 80 spots, the Path of Fire one is the best done for getting people to be comfortable with the game. > > Barring going there, people should level normally so they can get more variety. Bringing up Orr is rather unusual. The player spends hours upon hours building up for that very moment if they play the game like it's supposed to be played. They won't feel unprepared since they had time to work on their characters one way or another. And start with Path of Fire is like grabbing Game of Thrones and start watching it around Season 5. What's the point? The story will be too ridiculous them to take seriously, and it will also be hard to get a good vibe out of the world... and they will generally feel bored out of it since it will feel rather generic. Ohh... look, a desert... I have never seen that before. But that would be my case. I enjoy feeling immersed and get to understand the world... but considering 70% of the game's population pretty much uses the same armor sets, wings and legendaries... I'm starting to think they don't care at all. I don't see the appeal of defecting other people's screen with their horrendous creations. I'll never unserstand this necessity of wanting to be a "snowflake". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puma.3645 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 --removed- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 The OP requests the same sort of paternalism introduced with the New Player Initiative: ANet decides when your account is ready for certain challenges, not the player. I'm philosophically opposed to "gating," even though I understand the potential benefits. In the case of the NPE, ANet did extensive research (from "exit interviews" and such) before designing and implementing the current system. I would expect them to do at least as much before restricting the use of the L80 boosters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellsqueen.3045 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 At the very least they should have to do the core tyria story on a character once before heading into the HoT and PoF maps because it is for their benefit to learn the game in environments where it is safe to learn, it's not like they have to level to do the whole core tyria story, they will have all leveled sections unlocked to follow because they used the booster. It will lead them to waypoints on core tyria maps which they are going to need later down the line, it will show them new environments and teaches them to learn the game, get them skins and lots of other cool stuff, including some level books when they decide they want a new character and starting totally from scratch doesn't cut it for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasimir.6239 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 > @hellsqueen.3045 said: > At the very least they should have to do the core tyria story on a character once before heading into the HoT and PoF maps because it is for their benefit to learn the game in environments where it is safe to learn, it's not like they have to level to do the whole core tyria story, they will have all leveled sections unlocked to follow because they used the booster. It will lead them to waypoints on core tyria maps which they are going to need later down the line, it will show them new environments and teaches them to learn the game, get them skins and lots of other cool stuff, including some level books when they decide they want a new character and starting totally from scratch doesn't cut it for them. Not everyone enjoys story. I know a lot of veterans who have yet to finish the story on even one of their characters. Core story has some pretty awful instances, too (don't ask how many of my characters are waiting in front of Claw Island, because I don't enjoy that part of the story at all). Tying area access to story completion is just as random as tying it to playtime or leveling in general. If people want to learn they'll learn on their own, without force. If people don't want to learn, no amount of forcing them to do certain content first will help them or anybody else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasimir.6239 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 > @Kichwas.7152 said: > > @Rasimir.6239 said: > > I said it before, and I'll say it again: restricting newer players/accounts from playing where the experienced crowd is will do nothing but frustrate those who prefer to learn with/from others and by jumping in at the deep end. There's no hard and fast rule that fits all players and works for everybody, and artificially gating new players will lead to just as many frustrated people giving up prematurely on the game as will the current way of "everybody's allowed to make their own mistakes". > > > I kind of like how ESO does it. Everything scales everywhere - or rather, all characters are scaled to max-level CP 160 (the equiv of exotic gear), all the time, everywhere except in raids and 'veteran dungeons' (like explorables here). The result is that the entire game is the endgame, and all zones are busy. > > GW2 does that too... but ESO scales better - everyone scales to the same power level, so they balanced the whole game to that level. There is no going to a starter zone and being 'on the top end of it and so a bit too powerful' so people visit them all. > > So they have no need for boosts... because it's built in, you join there, and you can just go meet your friends and game together and get the same value out of the experience. > > GW2 was like the 'version 1.5' of this scaling concept... (FFXIV is like the 'limited scaling' - in dungeons and events only), and ESO is the refined version 2.0 that finished implementing the idea GW2 started (ESO started as a horrible mess where you couldn't even group with a same level player standing right next to you if you were on different stages of a quest - scaling was patched in and player-player phasing was patched out... proving that it's never too late to fix a game). > I enjoy ESO's sytem, too (have been playing on and off since beta, as my husband is very much into that game and refuses to play GW2 with the rest of the family), but it's got its faults just like GW2's system does. For one, people "feel" progressively weaker as they level, as the early levels are strongly over-compensated due to lack of equipment and skills. For another, champion points (not the gear level but the actual perks you get from spending cp) do have a serious impact on a low-level's abilities, which makes for a difference in character power that feels equal to a good many levels. I took 3 years to get my first character to 50, by which time my husband was at max cp, and I could barely get a hit in while he was slaughtering things left and right, even though the characters we were playing were at the same level (30s and 40s). That difference of course goes away for following characters, but with a first character without cp it's very noticable. Taking champion points into account, I'd actually say GW2 is still a lot more balanced between accounts of different playtimes. Of course you can't compensate experience, so (most) veterans will still have an advantage over new players. Different equipment levels, skills, and traits make for a difference, too, but at mid levels, that's about the same in both games (early levels in ESO are massively over-compensated, which brings its own problems). Both games, GW2 and ESO, allow players to play pretty much everywhere at any time, which inevitably leads to a lot of the "problems" mentioned in this thread. Personally I still think that the design choice to give players the freedom to play how and where you want to play is the strong point of both games, and I enjoy both for it. But as they say "you can't cure stupid". Somebody determined to get to "endgame" as quickly as possible, no matter if it's a level 80 boost in GW2 or mindlessly running a few hours of Alik'r dolmen farm in ESO to max cp, will be clueless. Restricting them from participating in certain content won't make them learn, it'll just drive them to find the most brainless, rapid way to get around the restrictions. It may be a nuisance to them, but it won't make them learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maulclaw.4365 Posted October 12, 2017 Author Share Posted October 12, 2017 This thread sure got a lot of attention. I would like to know more thoughts about this whole ordeal. Maybe it can get the attention of a moderator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
castlemanic.3198 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 The only solution to this problem is some sort of optional tutorial that goes through everything, what boons and conditions are, what are CCs, what are break bars, what's barrier, what are traits, what different stats do, how changing your weapon changes skills, dodging, healing and class specific mechanics (guardian virtues, warrior bursts etc). Just having a tutorial that's optional be available to players to get them happily on the road to understanding everything, whether boosted or not, would be super beneficial for everyone. Hell, I could probably learn a thing or two as well from an Arenanet made tutorial and i've been playing since beta weekend three. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sartharina.3542 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 I boosted to 90 back with Warlords of Draenor in WoW when I tried getting into that game - and it pretty much got me into the game immediately. What GW2 probably needs, though, is something like WoW's Extended Tutorial for the boost, giving players an in-depth tutorial of their class and its mechanics. Unfortunately, the developers creating content that teaches players how to play the game on their class would first require the developers to understand how the game is played, and I'm really, really not sure if that's the case. Or maybe Engineer just won't get a tutorial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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