ProverbsofHell.2307 Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 Good to see exactly nobody takes this thread seriously. I hope neither does Anet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Disgrace.4275 Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 > @"melandru.3876" said: > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > @"Ryan.9387" said: > > > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > You have options. > > > > > > > > > > > > - Bring a sidenoder > > > > > > Whether it be a Scrapper, Weaver, Soulbeast or Spellbreaker you can atleast contest 1 of the nodes for your team. > > > > > > > > > > > > - Bring a +1 > > > > > > Herald is an excellent choice. This means you can come in and kill the already low warrior's in outnumbered fights on node. > > > > > > > > > > > > - Bring a teamfighter > > > > > > Take your pick, Chronomancer, Necromancer, Firebrand and Holosmith, how about dominating mid and then sending people back and forth to close leaving that poor enemy warr forever alone on far giving you a 4v5? > > > > > > > > > > > > - Bring a Mesmer! > > > > > > Portal is your friend. Take your other friends with you the world of side nodes. Take two. Even three! > > > > > > > > > > > > The options are there. > > > > > > > > > > isn't portal disabled,since like..ages? > > > > > > > > Nah, it's just really bad now. > > > > > > i know it got smiter boon'd that's why i say disabled no healthy mesmer would ever use it again > > > > It's not smite booned lol, it still works the same, just reduction on how long you can afk before it fades away, smiters boon lol would be only let your portal through it once only with a 5 second window. > > must explain why i haven't seen a portal in nearly half a year > it's to useful Probably because it doesn't carry anymore in solo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 > @"melandru.3876" said: > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > @"Ryan.9387" said: > > > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > You have options. > > > > > > > > > > > > - Bring a sidenoder > > > > > > Whether it be a Scrapper, Weaver, Soulbeast or Spellbreaker you can atleast contest 1 of the nodes for your team. > > > > > > > > > > > > - Bring a +1 > > > > > > Herald is an excellent choice. This means you can come in and kill the already low warrior's in outnumbered fights on node. > > > > > > > > > > > > - Bring a teamfighter > > > > > > Take your pick, Chronomancer, Necromancer, Firebrand and Holosmith, how about dominating mid and then sending people back and forth to close leaving that poor enemy warr forever alone on far giving you a 4v5? > > > > > > > > > > > > - Bring a Mesmer! > > > > > > Portal is your friend. Take your other friends with you the world of side nodes. Take two. Even three! > > > > > > > > > > > > The options are there. > > > > > > > > > > isn't portal disabled,since like..ages? > > > > > > > > Nah, it's just really bad now. > > > > > > i know it got smiter boon'd that's why i say disabled no healthy mesmer would ever use it again > > > > It's not smite booned lol, it still works the same, just reduction on how long you can afk before it fades away, smiters boon lol would be only let your portal through it once only with a 5 second window. > > must explain why i haven't seen a portal in nearly half a year > it's to useful Clearly he's a higher IQ player than all the mesmers to have ever played a game since it's been completely abandoned at all levels of play including the highest tier and hasn't even made an appearing on a MAT Finalist since it's nerf which just means he'd be better at Portal with higher IQ plays than all the mesmers to have ever dropped a portal before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Disgrace.4275 Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > > @"Ryan.9387" said: > > > > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > You have options. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Bring a sidenoder > > > > > > > Whether it be a Scrapper, Weaver, Soulbeast or Spellbreaker you can atleast contest 1 of the nodes for your team. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Bring a +1 > > > > > > > Herald is an excellent choice. This means you can come in and kill the already low warrior's in outnumbered fights on node. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Bring a teamfighter > > > > > > > Take your pick, Chronomancer, Necromancer, Firebrand and Holosmith, how about dominating mid and then sending people back and forth to close leaving that poor enemy warr forever alone on far giving you a 4v5? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Bring a Mesmer! > > > > > > > Portal is your friend. Take your other friends with you the world of side nodes. Take two. Even three! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The options are there. > > > > > > > > > > > > isn't portal disabled,since like..ages? > > > > > > > > > > Nah, it's just really bad now. > > > > > > > > i know it got smiter boon'd that's why i say disabled no healthy mesmer would ever use it again > > > > > > It's not smite booned lol, it still works the same, just reduction on how long you can afk before it fades away, smiters boon lol would be only let your portal through it once only with a 5 second window. > > > > must explain why i haven't seen a portal in nearly half a year > > it's to useful > > Clearly he's a higher IQ player than all the mesmers to have ever played a game since it's been completely abandoned at all levels of play including the highest tier and hasn't even made an appearing on a MAT Finalist since it's nerf which just means he'd be better at Portal with higher IQ plays than all the mesmers to have ever dropped a portal before. Well, sure portal was nerfed but not smiters boon nerfed lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 just nerf rampage, then they'll fall out of meta lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glennypenny.9625 Posted April 18, 2019 Author Share Posted April 18, 2019 > @"Crozame.4098" said: > 1 to 4 warriors every game. Nice argument mate. To make it more credible should be: 0 to 4. Thanks for that. If it was 0-4 then that’s what I would have written... Useless comment lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glennypenny.9625 Posted April 18, 2019 Author Share Posted April 18, 2019 > @"melandru.3876" said: > another mirage main that now has to "play" instead of rely on cheese. probably silver or gold rank aswell > > won't be any better when u get to plat, there the good warriors wait for you Brilliant insight thank you melandru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glennypenny.9625 Posted April 18, 2019 Author Share Posted April 18, 2019 > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > @"Ryan.9387" said: > > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > You have options. > > > > > > > > > > - Bring a sidenoder > > > > > Whether it be a Scrapper, Weaver, Soulbeast or Spellbreaker you can atleast contest 1 of the nodes for your team. > > > > > > > > > > - Bring a +1 > > > > > Herald is an excellent choice. This means you can come in and kill the already low warrior's in outnumbered fights on node. > > > > > > > > > > - Bring a teamfighter > > > > > Take your pick, Chronomancer, Necromancer, Firebrand and Holosmith, how about dominating mid and then sending people back and forth to close leaving that poor enemy warr forever alone on far giving you a 4v5? > > > > > > > > > > - Bring a Mesmer! > > > > > Portal is your friend. Take your other friends with you the world of side nodes. Take two. Even three! > > > > > > > > > > The options are there. > > > > > > > > isn't portal disabled,since like..ages? > > > > > > Nah, it's just really bad now. > > > > i know it got smiter boon'd that's why i say disabled no healthy mesmer would ever use it again > > should have never been a thing. also delete daggerstorm > Yeah let’s get rid of the one and only useful ability thief has except mobility lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Disgrace.4275 Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 > @"glennypenny.9625" said: > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > @"Ryan.9387" said: > > > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > You have options. > > > > > > > > > > > > - Bring a sidenoder > > > > > > Whether it be a Scrapper, Weaver, Soulbeast or Spellbreaker you can atleast contest 1 of the nodes for your team. > > > > > > > > > > > > - Bring a +1 > > > > > > Herald is an excellent choice. This means you can come in and kill the already low warrior's in outnumbered fights on node. > > > > > > > > > > > > - Bring a teamfighter > > > > > > Take your pick, Chronomancer, Necromancer, Firebrand and Holosmith, how about dominating mid and then sending people back and forth to close leaving that poor enemy warr forever alone on far giving you a 4v5? > > > > > > > > > > > > - Bring a Mesmer! > > > > > > Portal is your friend. Take your other friends with you the world of side nodes. Take two. Even three! > > > > > > > > > > > > The options are there. > > > > > > > > > > isn't portal disabled,since like..ages? > > > > > > > > Nah, it's just really bad now. > > > > > > i know it got smiter boon'd that's why i say disabled no healthy mesmer would ever use it again > > > > should have never been a thing. also delete daggerstorm > > > > Yeah let’s get rid of the one and only useful ability thief has except mobility lol You cant deny it is really over tuned for what it does. I mean the meta sd thief or even acro staff already has a ton of evades adding a 4 second that reflects too is kinda silly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbelch.9028 Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > @"Ryan.9387" said: > > > > > > > @"glennypenny.9625" said: > > > > > > > Look I just dislike the way they play currently and it’s never been an issue until this season. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rev Holo scrapper and blood Necro all seem overturned too but spellbreaker has too much too easy and that’s why people like shorts are playing it > > > > > > > > > > > > I would argue people are playing it because it is a very fun class to play. Certainly more fun than a condi chaos scepter/staff mirage. > > > > > > > > > > > > Its also not overtuned, it has difficult 1v1s vs ele/necro and can't reliably kill scrapper. It stands no chance against a competent condi mirage. > > > > > > > > > > Wait.. spellbreaker can't reliably kill scrapper? > > > > > > > > Not if the scrapper is good, knows when to use blind field/reflect and takes mortar kit, no. It should be a stalemate in all cases, unless the warrior gets a plus on his side. > > > For months now everyone on the forums have been screaming at me Spellbreaker hard counters Scrapper EZ kill. > > > > If the scrapper is bad and doesn't use the elite mortar kit, yes, countered. If the scrapper is good and does use the kit, no, not countered. Pretty simple. I dunno who's been screaming at you, not me. P.S. You left this out: "You're ignoring that you use something not in the meta." > > Just step into any one of the scrapper threads. People like Chaith and Vagrant insist scrapper gets 100-0 every time ez by spellbreaker and that scrapper is no longer relevant since barrier nerf. > I'll dip my toe in. You're still ignoring that you use a weapon in your warrior movement calculations that is **not** in the meta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > @"Ryan.9387" said: > > > > > > > > @"glennypenny.9625" said: > > > > > > > > Look I just dislike the way they play currently and it’s never been an issue until this season. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rev Holo scrapper and blood Necro all seem overturned too but spellbreaker has too much too easy and that’s why people like shorts are playing it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would argue people are playing it because it is a very fun class to play. Certainly more fun than a condi chaos scepter/staff mirage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its also not overtuned, it has difficult 1v1s vs ele/necro and can't reliably kill scrapper. It stands no chance against a competent condi mirage. > > > > > > > > > > > > Wait.. spellbreaker can't reliably kill scrapper? > > > > > > > > > > Not if the scrapper is good, knows when to use blind field/reflect and takes mortar kit, no. It should be a stalemate in all cases, unless the warrior gets a plus on his side. > > > > For months now everyone on the forums have been screaming at me Spellbreaker hard counters Scrapper EZ kill. > > > > > > If the scrapper is bad and doesn't use the elite mortar kit, yes, countered. If the scrapper is good and does use the kit, no, not countered. Pretty simple. I dunno who's been screaming at you, not me. P.S. You left this out: "You're ignoring that you use something not in the meta." > > > > Just step into any one of the scrapper threads. People like Chaith and Vagrant insist scrapper gets 100-0 every time ez by spellbreaker and that scrapper is no longer relevant since barrier nerf. > > > > I'll dip my toe in. > > You're still ignoring that you use a weapon in your warrior movement calculations that is **not** in the meta. Throughout my platinum games I see a lot more sword shield warriors as I do dagger. I personally play dagger, but at the end of the day I see more on sword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbelch.9028 Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > @"Ryan.9387" said: > > > > > > > > > @"glennypenny.9625" said: > > > > > > > > > Look I just dislike the way they play currently and it’s never been an issue until this season. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rev Holo scrapper and blood Necro all seem overturned too but spellbreaker has too much too easy and that’s why people like shorts are playing it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would argue people are playing it because it is a very fun class to play. Certainly more fun than a condi chaos scepter/staff mirage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its also not overtuned, it has difficult 1v1s vs ele/necro and can't reliably kill scrapper. It stands no chance against a competent condi mirage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wait.. spellbreaker can't reliably kill scrapper? > > > > > > > > > > > > Not if the scrapper is good, knows when to use blind field/reflect and takes mortar kit, no. It should be a stalemate in all cases, unless the warrior gets a plus on his side. > > > > > For months now everyone on the forums have been screaming at me Spellbreaker hard counters Scrapper EZ kill. > > > > > > > > If the scrapper is bad and doesn't use the elite mortar kit, yes, countered. If the scrapper is good and does use the kit, no, not countered. Pretty simple. I dunno who's been screaming at you, not me. P.S. You left this out: "You're ignoring that you use something not in the meta." > > > > > > Just step into any one of the scrapper threads. People like Chaith and Vagrant insist scrapper gets 100-0 every time ez by spellbreaker and that scrapper is no longer relevant since barrier nerf. > > > > > > > I'll dip my toe in. > > > > You're still ignoring that you use a weapon in your warrior movement calculations that is **not** in the meta. > > Throughout my platinum games I see a lot more sword shield warriors as I do dagger. I personally play dagger, but at the end of the day I see more on sword. You are using a calculation that is NOT in the meta. Why do you keep arguing? That build is inferior, and it is a fact that dagger is the more used weapon among competitive players presently. If you doubt what I'm saying, check the "meta" tab of Metabattle. I'm not saying it's gospel, but it backs up what I'm saying 100%. https://metabattle.com/wiki/Conquest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Ryan.9387" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"glennypenny.9625" said: > > > > > > > > > > Look I just dislike the way they play currently and it’s never been an issue until this season. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rev Holo scrapper and blood Necro all seem overturned too but spellbreaker has too much too easy and that’s why people like shorts are playing it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would argue people are playing it because it is a very fun class to play. Certainly more fun than a condi chaos scepter/staff mirage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its also not overtuned, it has difficult 1v1s vs ele/necro and can't reliably kill scrapper. It stands no chance against a competent condi mirage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wait.. spellbreaker can't reliably kill scrapper? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not if the scrapper is good, knows when to use blind field/reflect and takes mortar kit, no. It should be a stalemate in all cases, unless the warrior gets a plus on his side. > > > > > > For months now everyone on the forums have been screaming at me Spellbreaker hard counters Scrapper EZ kill. > > > > > > > > > > If the scrapper is bad and doesn't use the elite mortar kit, yes, countered. If the scrapper is good and does use the kit, no, not countered. Pretty simple. I dunno who's been screaming at you, not me. P.S. You left this out: "You're ignoring that you use something not in the meta." > > > > > > > > Just step into any one of the scrapper threads. People like Chaith and Vagrant insist scrapper gets 100-0 every time ez by spellbreaker and that scrapper is no longer relevant since barrier nerf. > > > > > > > > > > I'll dip my toe in. > > > > > > You're still ignoring that you use a weapon in your warrior movement calculations that is **not** in the meta. > > > > Throughout my platinum games I see a lot more sword shield warriors as I do dagger. I personally play dagger, but at the end of the day I see more on sword. > > You are using a calculation that is NOT in the meta. Why do you keep arguing? That build is inferior, and it is a fact that dagger is the more used weapon among competitive players presently. > If you doubt what I'm saying, check the "meta" tab of Metabattle. I'm not saying it's gospel, but it backs up what I'm saying 100%. https://metabattle.com/wiki/Conquest Metabattle **sucks** and is loaded with inferior builds across almost all classes, voted on and curated by completely inept players who are largely golds. There's a reason Angeels made Gods of PvP before he quit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbelch.9028 Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Ryan.9387" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"glennypenny.9625" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Look I just dislike the way they play currently and it’s never been an issue until this season. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rev Holo scrapper and blood Necro all seem overturned too but spellbreaker has too much too easy and that’s why people like shorts are playing it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would argue people are playing it because it is a very fun class to play. Certainly more fun than a condi chaos scepter/staff mirage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its also not overtuned, it has difficult 1v1s vs ele/necro and can't reliably kill scrapper. It stands no chance against a competent condi mirage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wait.. spellbreaker can't reliably kill scrapper? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not if the scrapper is good, knows when to use blind field/reflect and takes mortar kit, no. It should be a stalemate in all cases, unless the warrior gets a plus on his side. > > > > > > > For months now everyone on the forums have been screaming at me Spellbreaker hard counters Scrapper EZ kill. > > > > > > > > > > > > If the scrapper is bad and doesn't use the elite mortar kit, yes, countered. If the scrapper is good and does use the kit, no, not countered. Pretty simple. I dunno who's been screaming at you, not me. P.S. You left this out: "You're ignoring that you use something not in the meta." > > > > > > > > > > Just step into any one of the scrapper threads. People like Chaith and Vagrant insist scrapper gets 100-0 every time ez by spellbreaker and that scrapper is no longer relevant since barrier nerf. > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll dip my toe in. > > > > > > > > You're still ignoring that you use a weapon in your warrior movement calculations that is **not** in the meta. > > > > > > Throughout my platinum games I see a lot more sword shield warriors as I do dagger. I personally play dagger, but at the end of the day I see more on sword. > > > > You are using a calculation that is NOT in the meta. Why do you keep arguing? That build is inferior, and it is a fact that dagger is the more used weapon among competitive players presently. > > If you doubt what I'm saying, check the "meta" tab of Metabattle. I'm not saying it's gospel, but it backs up what I'm saying 100%. https://metabattle.com/wiki/Conquest > > Metabattle **sucks** and is loaded with inferior builds across almost all classes, voted on and curated by completely inept players who are largely golds. There's a reason Angeels made Gods of PvP before he quit. It might "suck" but it is correct in this instance, whereas you are **incorrect** if you think sword is superior, and should be used in a broad movement comparison, which you clearly are putting across the forums in an attempt to say warrior movement should be nerfed. Which it shouldn't. To further emphasize my point, the build youre referencing was used commonly in November of 2018. It's currently April of 2019, and it has long been recognized as not in the meta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ryan.9387" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"glennypenny.9625" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > Look I just dislike the way they play currently and it’s never been an issue until this season. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rev Holo scrapper and blood Necro all seem overturned too but spellbreaker has too much too easy and that’s why people like shorts are playing it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would argue people are playing it because it is a very fun class to play. Certainly more fun than a condi chaos scepter/staff mirage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its also not overtuned, it has difficult 1v1s vs ele/necro and can't reliably kill scrapper. It stands no chance against a competent condi mirage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wait.. spellbreaker can't reliably kill scrapper? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not if the scrapper is good, knows when to use blind field/reflect and takes mortar kit, no. It should be a stalemate in all cases, unless the warrior gets a plus on his side. > > > > > > > > For months now everyone on the forums have been screaming at me Spellbreaker hard counters Scrapper EZ kill. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the scrapper is bad and doesn't use the elite mortar kit, yes, countered. If the scrapper is good and does use the kit, no, not countered. Pretty simple. I dunno who's been screaming at you, not me. P.S. You left this out: "You're ignoring that you use something not in the meta." > > > > > > > > > > > > Just step into any one of the scrapper threads. People like Chaith and Vagrant insist scrapper gets 100-0 every time ez by spellbreaker and that scrapper is no longer relevant since barrier nerf. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll dip my toe in. > > > > > > > > > > You're still ignoring that you use a weapon in your warrior movement calculations that is **not** in the meta. > > > > > > > > Throughout my platinum games I see a lot more sword shield warriors as I do dagger. I personally play dagger, but at the end of the day I see more on sword. > > > > > > You are using a calculation that is NOT in the meta. Why do you keep arguing? That build is inferior, and it is a fact that dagger is the more used weapon among competitive players presently. > > > If you doubt what I'm saying, check the "meta" tab of Metabattle. I'm not saying it's gospel, but it backs up what I'm saying 100%. https://metabattle.com/wiki/Conquest > > > > Metabattle **sucks** and is loaded with inferior builds across almost all classes, voted on and curated by completely inept players who are largely golds. There's a reason Angeels made Gods of PvP before he quit. > > It might "suck" but it is correct in this instance, whereas you are **incorrect** if you think sword is superior, and should be used in a broad movement comparison, which you clearly are putting across the forums in an attempt to say warrior movement should be nerfed. Which it shouldn't. > > To further emphasize my point, the build youre referencing was used commonly in November of 2018. It's currently April of 2019, and it has long been recognized as not in the meta. I don't think sword is superior. I use Dagger Shield when I play spellbreaker. I simply see sword shield more often. I know Gods of PvP is out of date. I literally talked about Angeels, the guy who ran it, quitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbelch.9028 Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ryan.9387" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"glennypenny.9625" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Look I just dislike the way they play currently and it’s never been an issue until this season. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rev Holo scrapper and blood Necro all seem overturned too but spellbreaker has too much too easy and that’s why people like shorts are playing it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would argue people are playing it because it is a very fun class to play. Certainly more fun than a condi chaos scepter/staff mirage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its also not overtuned, it has difficult 1v1s vs ele/necro and can't reliably kill scrapper. It stands no chance against a competent condi mirage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wait.. spellbreaker can't reliably kill scrapper? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not if the scrapper is good, knows when to use blind field/reflect and takes mortar kit, no. It should be a stalemate in all cases, unless the warrior gets a plus on his side. > > > > > > > > > For months now everyone on the forums have been screaming at me Spellbreaker hard counters Scrapper EZ kill. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the scrapper is bad and doesn't use the elite mortar kit, yes, countered. If the scrapper is good and does use the kit, no, not countered. Pretty simple. I dunno who's been screaming at you, not me. P.S. You left this out: "You're ignoring that you use something not in the meta." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just step into any one of the scrapper threads. People like Chaith and Vagrant insist scrapper gets 100-0 every time ez by spellbreaker and that scrapper is no longer relevant since barrier nerf. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll dip my toe in. > > > > > > > > > > > > You're still ignoring that you use a weapon in your warrior movement calculations that is **not** in the meta. > > > > > > > > > > Throughout my platinum games I see a lot more sword shield warriors as I do dagger. I personally play dagger, but at the end of the day I see more on sword. > > > > > > > > You are using a calculation that is NOT in the meta. Why do you keep arguing? That build is inferior, and it is a fact that dagger is the more used weapon among competitive players presently. > > > > If you doubt what I'm saying, check the "meta" tab of Metabattle. I'm not saying it's gospel, but it backs up what I'm saying 100%. https://metabattle.com/wiki/Conquest > > > > > > Metabattle **sucks** and is loaded with inferior builds across almost all classes, voted on and curated by completely inept players who are largely golds. There's a reason Angeels made Gods of PvP before he quit. > > > > It might "suck" but it is correct in this instance, whereas you are **incorrect** if you think sword is superior, and should be used in a broad movement comparison, which you clearly are putting across the forums in an attempt to say warrior movement should be nerfed. Which it shouldn't. > > > > To further emphasize my point, the build youre referencing was used commonly in November of 2018. It's currently April of 2019, and it has long been recognized as not in the meta. > > I don't think sword is superior. I use Dagger Shield when I play spellbreaker. I simply see sword shield more often. > > I know Gods of PvP is out of date. I literally talked about Angeels, the guy who ran it, quitting. When did I mention Gods of PvP being out of date? Of course it is. Your "seeing" sword more often is confirmation bias. If you use Dagger, like all people who understand meta builds do, then use dagger in your calculation. You just sound obtuse at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multicolorhipster.9751 Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 > @"ArthurDent.9538" said: > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > @"ArthurDent.9538" said: > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > @"Multicolorhipster.9751" said: > > > > > > @"glennypenny.9625" said: > > > > > > They can move as fast as Mesmer they hit as hard as Necro and they can survive better than guard > > > > > > > > > > I think we move a bit faster than Mesmers. Mesmers are one of the slowest classes in the game, especially condi. > > > > > > > > > > I can also confirm that we don't hit harder than Necro as Necro has the highest potential multi-target DPS in the game and most of our damage is single-target and melee. > > > > > > > > > > Surviving better than guard depends on both the guardian and the warrior's build. Core guard and DH have some impressive sustain, but a core warrior or defense spellbreaker might have them topped through healing signet, adrenal health, and Rousing Resilience in longer fights. Strength Spellbreaker has very little sustain and doesn't even come close. And if you're trying to compare it Firebrand, um... no? > > > > > > > > > > > > > A mirage can outpace a meta warrior now but it requires a number of fringe picks and assumptions; sword ambush+plus mimic blink+ blink + illusionary ambush + jaunt + jaunt. And desert distortion for 3x sword ambushes. > > > > > > > > 600 > > > > 600 > > > > 600 > > > > 1200 > > > > 1200 > > > > 1200 > > > > 450 > > > > 450 > > > > > > > > 6,300 units of movement speed. Plus it requires sword which is not great for 1v1 builds and illusionary ambush requires a target and mimic is a very fringe choice. So really the only build that can come close to running this load out is powermirage and its giving up 2 best in slot utilities to do so. > > > > > > > > Meta condi mirage currently has phase retreat, blink, maaaaaybe illusionary ambush, and jaunt. > > > > > > > > 600 > > > > 1200 > > > > 1200 > > > > 450 > > > > 450 > > > > > > > > =3,900. > > > > > > > > Ive already calculated that meta spellbreaker has 5,800 units of pure unbroken movement chaining in previous threads. > > > > > > It's a bit of a disingenuous way to compare them purely by distance traveled for example rush and blink are both 1200 range yet rush takes much longer to travel that distance resulting in much lower velocity. > > > > Not really. Distance is distance and for the mirage that beats warrior they're both completed in the same amount of time even with a lot of mesmer's being instant teleports. > > Distance isn't what matters, every build can go the same distance just by walking. Velocity is what matters when comparing mobility which is distance over time so yes time is very relevant. Warrior may still be faster, but need to do a more in depth calculation than just adding all the distances, or do timed races. If I might interject to this whole debate, I have to say this^ is absolutely right. Velocity really does matter as movement is most important when engaging/disengaging. If a warrior uses rush, bull's charge, or any other combination of skills(assuming they didn't blow any cooldowns at all during the fight) to disengage a fight, then a mesmer, rev, or thief is always going to catch up to them so long as their teleports are off cooldown whether it be instantly or mid-cast, they will always be able to chase them down, secure the kill, cap, or decap. Likewise, a warrior will always be slower to engage/rotate especially on maps with more verticality because none of their skills allow for any vertical movement. Even strictly talking about distance to get what's described you'd have to blow rampage AND bull's charge in one disengage/engage on flat unobstructed terrain. Being how important these two skills are to warrior, blowing them for a lost fight or engagement is a poor choice as that makes them likely to lose the next/upcoming fight. Sword is has fallen out of play because unblockable boon-removing ways of applying Magebane work better in a more bunker-centric meta like we have now. Dagger also favors defense, which doesn't even get bull's charge and has the full 90s CD on Rampage. One must also consider that warrior is mostly melee, and it could be argued that most of their skills that involve movement are there to keep them in melee range, and allow them to actually pressure their target. You might argue it's the same reason they don't get instant ports or vertical movement, because they should be relatively easy to kite. TL;DR: Arthur and Mbelch are right in my opinion. If Warrior is overpowered, it definitely isn't the distance in their movement-based skills that make them that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 > @"Multicolorhipster.9751" said: > > @"ArthurDent.9538" said: > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > @"ArthurDent.9538" said: > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > @"Multicolorhipster.9751" said: > > > > > > > @"glennypenny.9625" said: > > > > > > > They can move as fast as Mesmer they hit as hard as Necro and they can survive better than guard > > > > > > > > > > > > I think we move a bit faster than Mesmers. Mesmers are one of the slowest classes in the game, especially condi. > > > > > > > > > > > > I can also confirm that we don't hit harder than Necro as Necro has the highest potential multi-target DPS in the game and most of our damage is single-target and melee. > > > > > > > > > > > > Surviving better than guard depends on both the guardian and the warrior's build. Core guard and DH have some impressive sustain, but a core warrior or defense spellbreaker might have them topped through healing signet, adrenal health, and Rousing Resilience in longer fights. Strength Spellbreaker has very little sustain and doesn't even come close. And if you're trying to compare it Firebrand, um... no? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A mirage can outpace a meta warrior now but it requires a number of fringe picks and assumptions; sword ambush+plus mimic blink+ blink + illusionary ambush + jaunt + jaunt. And desert distortion for 3x sword ambushes. > > > > > > > > > > 600 > > > > > 600 > > > > > 600 > > > > > 1200 > > > > > 1200 > > > > > 1200 > > > > > 450 > > > > > 450 > > > > > > > > > > 6,300 units of movement speed. Plus it requires sword which is not great for 1v1 builds and illusionary ambush requires a target and mimic is a very fringe choice. So really the only build that can come close to running this load out is powermirage and its giving up 2 best in slot utilities to do so. > > > > > > > > > > Meta condi mirage currently has phase retreat, blink, maaaaaybe illusionary ambush, and jaunt. > > > > > > > > > > 600 > > > > > 1200 > > > > > 1200 > > > > > 450 > > > > > 450 > > > > > > > > > > =3,900. > > > > > > > > > > Ive already calculated that meta spellbreaker has 5,800 units of pure unbroken movement chaining in previous threads. > > > > > > > > It's a bit of a disingenuous way to compare them purely by distance traveled for example rush and blink are both 1200 range yet rush takes much longer to travel that distance resulting in much lower velocity. > > > > > > Not really. Distance is distance and for the mirage that beats warrior they're both completed in the same amount of time even with a lot of mesmer's being instant teleports. > > > Distance isn't what matters, every build can go the same distance just by walking. Velocity is what matters when comparing mobility which is distance over time so yes time is very relevant. Warrior may still be faster, but need to do a more in depth calculation than just adding all the distances, or do timed races. Which is what I did. For example 3x Sword ambushes takes 4s to account for both the cast time, the internal cooldown, and the delay between activating Mirage Cloak and being able to cast an ambush attack. Charge takes 2 full seconds. Rush takes 2 seconds and activating rampage takes 1 second. I know all of this off the top of my head. It's hilarious that you will simultaneously accuse me of not doing the math to account for distance and time and not even bother doing the math that confirms I'm right and just accuse me of lying. Very classy. Very mature. Much impressed. Your family and peers must be so proud. > If I might interject to this whole debate, I have to say this^ is absolutely right. Velocity really does matter as movement is most important when engaging/disengaging. If a warrior uses rush, bull's charge, or any other combination of skills(assuming they didn't blow any cooldowns at all during the fight) to disengage a fight, then a mesmer, rev, or thief is always going to catch up to them so long as their teleports are off cooldown whether it be instantly or mid-cast, they will always be able to chase them down, secure the kill, cap, or decap. Likewise, a warrior will always be slower to engage/rotate especially on maps with more verticality because none of their skills allow for any vertical movement. > > Even strictly talking about distance to get what's described you'd have to blow rampage And blowing a 72 second recharge rampage is more costly than blowing 2x jaunts which take 60s to recover if it means your life? I mean sure, it's 12 seconds more costly. But yeah, that's it. 12 seconds. 1600 units of movement on your elite vs 900 o mesmer? Seems like a clear winner even with that extra 12 seconds of cooldown taken into consideration. > AND bull's charge in one disengage/engage on flat unobstructed terrain. Dude literally every node in the game has 2-3 path ways for speeding out of without any concern for terrain. Very few have ways to outright blink out of danger that doesn't involve using the same pathways. It's more or less just forest, temple and legacy that give you such easy combat blinks. > Being how important these two skills are to warrior I'm sorry but you warriors talk about your movement skills as though they are 100% on cooldown every fight as if no other class might need their cooldowns during the fight. That's kind of the point. As fights rage on, you are pressured to used more and more cooldowns and then when pluses come and you are out numbered you might not have the cooldowns needed to escape and survive the fight. That's true of every build, not just warrior. I'm kind of baffled you don't get that. > blowing them for a lost fight or engagement is a poor choice as that makes them likely to lose the next/upcoming fight. Dying is always a worse choice than a poor choice. If your only options are to suicide or kite away the answer is obvious. > Sword is has fallen out of play because unblockable boon-removing ways of applying Magebane work better in a more bunker-centric meta like we have now. The past 5 of my games have all had enemy spellbreakers I had to 1v1 and all five of them were Sword+Shield. That was literally just this afternoons ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ryan.9387" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"glennypenny.9625" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Look I just dislike the way they play currently and it’s never been an issue until this season. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rev Holo scrapper and blood Necro all seem overturned too but spellbreaker has too much too easy and that’s why people like shorts are playing it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would argue people are playing it because it is a very fun class to play. Certainly more fun than a condi chaos scepter/staff mirage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its also not overtuned, it has difficult 1v1s vs ele/necro and can't reliably kill scrapper. It stands no chance against a competent condi mirage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wait.. spellbreaker can't reliably kill scrapper? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not if the scrapper is good, knows when to use blind field/reflect and takes mortar kit, no. It should be a stalemate in all cases, unless the warrior gets a plus on his side. > > > > > > > > > > For months now everyone on the forums have been screaming at me Spellbreaker hard counters Scrapper EZ kill. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the scrapper is bad and doesn't use the elite mortar kit, yes, countered. If the scrapper is good and does use the kit, no, not countered. Pretty simple. I dunno who's been screaming at you, not me. P.S. You left this out: "You're ignoring that you use something not in the meta." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just step into any one of the scrapper threads. People like Chaith and Vagrant insist scrapper gets 100-0 every time ez by spellbreaker and that scrapper is no longer relevant since barrier nerf. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll dip my toe in. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're still ignoring that you use a weapon in your warrior movement calculations that is **not** in the meta. > > > > > > > > > > > > Throughout my platinum games I see a lot more sword shield warriors as I do dagger. I personally play dagger, but at the end of the day I see more on sword. > > > > > > > > > > You are using a calculation that is NOT in the meta. Why do you keep arguing? That build is inferior, and it is a fact that dagger is the more used weapon among competitive players presently. > > > > > If you doubt what I'm saying, check the "meta" tab of Metabattle. I'm not saying it's gospel, but it backs up what I'm saying 100%. https://metabattle.com/wiki/Conquest > > > > > > > > Metabattle **sucks** and is loaded with inferior builds across almost all classes, voted on and curated by completely inept players who are largely golds. There's a reason Angeels made Gods of PvP before he quit. > > > > > > It might "suck" but it is correct in this instance, whereas you are **incorrect** if you think sword is superior, and should be used in a broad movement comparison, which you clearly are putting across the forums in an attempt to say warrior movement should be nerfed. Which it shouldn't. > > > > > > To further emphasize my point, the build youre referencing was used commonly in November of 2018. It's currently April of 2019, and it has long been recognized as not in the meta. > > > > I don't think sword is superior. I use Dagger Shield when I play spellbreaker. I simply see sword shield more often. > > > > I know Gods of PvP is out of date. I literally talked about Angeels, the guy who ran it, quitting. > > When did I mention Gods of PvP being out of date? Of course it is. Your "seeing" sword more often is confirmation bias. Here: > To further emphasize my point, the build youre referencing was used commonly in November of 2018. It's currently April of 2019, and it has long been recognized as not in the meta. I just played 5 matches in a row. 5/5 had me 1v1ing sword+shield spellbreakers. You are getting bizarrely bent out of shape over this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbelch.9028 Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ryan.9387" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"glennypenny.9625" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Look I just dislike the way they play currently and it’s never been an issue until this season. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rev Holo scrapper and blood Necro all seem overturned too but spellbreaker has too much too easy and that’s why people like shorts are playing it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would argue people are playing it because it is a very fun class to play. Certainly more fun than a condi chaos scepter/staff mirage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its also not overtuned, it has difficult 1v1s vs ele/necro and can't reliably kill scrapper. It stands no chance against a competent condi mirage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wait.. spellbreaker can't reliably kill scrapper? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not if the scrapper is good, knows when to use blind field/reflect and takes mortar kit, no. It should be a stalemate in all cases, unless the warrior gets a plus on his side. > > > > > > > > > > > For months now everyone on the forums have been screaming at me Spellbreaker hard counters Scrapper EZ kill. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the scrapper is bad and doesn't use the elite mortar kit, yes, countered. If the scrapper is good and does use the kit, no, not countered. Pretty simple. I dunno who's been screaming at you, not me. P.S. You left this out: "You're ignoring that you use something not in the meta." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just step into any one of the scrapper threads. People like Chaith and Vagrant insist scrapper gets 100-0 every time ez by spellbreaker and that scrapper is no longer relevant since barrier nerf. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll dip my toe in. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're still ignoring that you use a weapon in your warrior movement calculations that is **not** in the meta. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Throughout my platinum games I see a lot more sword shield warriors as I do dagger. I personally play dagger, but at the end of the day I see more on sword. > > > > > > > > > > > > You are using a calculation that is NOT in the meta. Why do you keep arguing? That build is inferior, and it is a fact that dagger is the more used weapon among competitive players presently. > > > > > > If you doubt what I'm saying, check the "meta" tab of Metabattle. I'm not saying it's gospel, but it backs up what I'm saying 100%. https://metabattle.com/wiki/Conquest > > > > > > > > > > Metabattle **sucks** and is loaded with inferior builds across almost all classes, voted on and curated by completely inept players who are largely golds. There's a reason Angeels made Gods of PvP before he quit. > > > > > > > > It might "suck" but it is correct in this instance, whereas you are **incorrect** if you think sword is superior, and should be used in a broad movement comparison, which you clearly are putting across the forums in an attempt to say warrior movement should be nerfed. Which it shouldn't. > > > > > > > > To further emphasize my point, the build youre referencing was used commonly in November of 2018. It's currently April of 2019, and it has long been recognized as not in the meta. > > > > > > I don't think sword is superior. I use Dagger Shield when I play spellbreaker. I simply see sword shield more often. > > > > > > I know Gods of PvP is out of date. I literally talked about Angeels, the guy who ran it, quitting. > > > > When did I mention Gods of PvP being out of date? Of course it is. Your "seeing" sword more often is confirmation bias. > > Here: > > To further emphasize my point, the build youre referencing was used commonly in November of 2018. It's currently April of 2019, and it has long been recognized as not in the meta. > > I just played 5 matches in a row. 5/5 had me 1v1ing sword+shield spellbreakers. You are getting bizarrely bent out of shape over this. I haven't faced a Sword Shield spellbreaker this season. Also, what I said is correct and doesn't reference Gods of PvP. November is when that build was commonly used and fell out of service not long after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Tempest.7584 Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > > @"glennypenny.9625" said: > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > > @"Ryan.9387" said: > > > > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > You have options. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Bring a sidenoder > > > > > > > Whether it be a Scrapper, Weaver, Soulbeast or Spellbreaker you can atleast contest 1 of the nodes for your team. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Bring a +1 > > > > > > > Herald is an excellent choice. This means you can come in and kill the already low warrior's in outnumbered fights on node. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Bring a teamfighter > > > > > > > Take your pick, Chronomancer, Necromancer, Firebrand and Holosmith, how about dominating mid and then sending people back and forth to close leaving that poor enemy warr forever alone on far giving you a 4v5? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Bring a Mesmer! > > > > > > > Portal is your friend. Take your other friends with you the world of side nodes. Take two. Even three! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The options are there. > > > > > > > > > > > > isn't portal disabled,since like..ages? > > > > > > > > > > Nah, it's just really bad now. > > > > > > > > i know it got smiter boon'd that's why i say disabled no healthy mesmer would ever use it again > > > > > > should have never been a thing. also delete daggerstorm > > > > > > > Yeah let’s get rid of the one and only useful ability thief has except mobility lol > > You cant deny it is really over tuned for what it does. I mean the meta sd thief or even acro staff already has a ton of evades adding a 4 second that reflects too is kinda silly Not gonna argue with a presumed Thief main who thinks Dagger Storm is OP. Credit where credit's due. Personally, I don't think it's the worst thing we're dealing with, but almost every thief seems to run it and use it as a cheesy "oh kitten" button to flip fights they lost. Few things feel more unfair than outplaying a S/D thief that hard-counters my condi-mirage, only to lose when he hits his panic button. I know it's predictable, but that doesn't make it not feel cheap. Plus the fact that by running Improvisation, there's a chance of instantly recharging Dagger Storm on steal. Add to it the fact that Dagger Storm does not prevent capture-point contribution, and it's extra OP when used at critical moments like edging out the other team to ring the bell in Revenge of the Capricorn. The skill shouldn't be deleted, but it should be toned down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multicolorhipster.9751 Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > It's hilarious that you will simultaneously accuse me of not doing the math to account for distance and time and not even bother doing the math that confirms I'm right and just accuse me of lying. Very classy. Very mature. Much impressed. Your family and peers must be so proud. > Dude, what? I'm not accusing you of anything, nor am I trying to imply you're lying. You did the math spot on, and you certainly aren't wrong by any means. I'm just not 100% sure the issue is as big a deal in what could make Warrior overpowered. I did my best to explain why that is. To be perfectly fair I usually agree on almost everything you have to say, but just this one thing seems a bit overstated. > > And blowing a 72 second recharge rampage is more costly than blowing 2x jaunts which take 60s to recover if it means your life? I mean sure, it's 12 seconds more costly. But yeah, that's it. 12 seconds. 1600 units of movement on your elite vs 900 o mesmer? Seems like a clear winner even with that extra 12 seconds of cooldown taken into consideration. > It really depends on the situation for either class, typically in every engagement rampage isn't going to be used for the extra movement alone, but for pressure and damage, whereas jaunt is used almost exclusively to disengage/kite. Jaunt is also an insta-cast vertical port when most if not all the rampage skills have travel and move horizontal. Again, melee class(mostly.) > Dude literally every node in the game has 2-3 path ways for speeding out of without any concern for terrain. Very few have ways to outright blink out of danger that doesn't involve using the same pathways. It's more or less just forest, temple and legacy that give you such easy combat blinks. > And Khylo, And Skyhammer, and Coliseum has a few. And that's nearly all the maps. And like I say, even if blinks don't get used defensively they'll always have higher velocity to finish off/kite warriors. > I'm sorry but you warriors talk about your movement skills as though they are 100% on cooldown every fight as if no other class might need their cooldowns during the fight. That's kind of the point. As fights rage on, you are pressured to used more and more cooldowns and then when pluses come and you are out numbered you might not have the cooldowns needed to escape and survive the fight. That's true of every build, not just warrior. I'm kind of baffled you don't get that. > What I meant was, bull's charge and rampage are instrumental to getting any sort of value out of strength spellbreaker in a fight. Sure with core and defense, you can hold a point forever and be effective, but all those people running tetherbreaker, or strength dagger basically rely on those two skills to close out duels or have any sort of teamfight presence. Core/defense can use those to move between points, whereas the current "meta" build for warrior might throw a 1v1 before it even starts, especially if they plan on going far at match-start. They aren't going to reasonably blow those skills on disengage unless they absolutely have to. Even then; for the investment, one might argue they should get away in that case. Also, chumean "you warriors?" cmonBruh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Tempest.7584 Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 > @"Multicolorhipster.9751" said: > Also, chumean "you warriors?" cmonBruh Haha, I noticed that too. Maybe Mort picked it up from the common "you mesmers" that peppered those threads for months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan.9387 Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ryan.9387" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"glennypenny.9625" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Look I just dislike the way they play currently and it’s never been an issue until this season. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rev Holo scrapper and blood Necro all seem overturned too but spellbreaker has too much too easy and that’s why people like shorts are playing it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would argue people are playing it because it is a very fun class to play. Certainly more fun than a condi chaos scepter/staff mirage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its also not overtuned, it has difficult 1v1s vs ele/necro and can't reliably kill scrapper. It stands no chance against a competent condi mirage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wait.. spellbreaker can't reliably kill scrapper? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not if the scrapper is good, knows when to use blind field/reflect and takes mortar kit, no. It should be a stalemate in all cases, unless the warrior gets a plus on his side. > > > > > > > > > > > For months now everyone on the forums have been screaming at me Spellbreaker hard counters Scrapper EZ kill. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the scrapper is bad and doesn't use the elite mortar kit, yes, countered. If the scrapper is good and does use the kit, no, not countered. Pretty simple. I dunno who's been screaming at you, not me. P.S. You left this out: "You're ignoring that you use something not in the meta." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just step into any one of the scrapper threads. People like Chaith and Vagrant insist scrapper gets 100-0 every time ez by spellbreaker and that scrapper is no longer relevant since barrier nerf. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll dip my toe in. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're still ignoring that you use a weapon in your warrior movement calculations that is **not** in the meta. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Throughout my platinum games I see a lot more sword shield warriors as I do dagger. I personally play dagger, but at the end of the day I see more on sword. > > > > > > > > > > > > You are using a calculation that is NOT in the meta. Why do you keep arguing? That build is inferior, and it is a fact that dagger is the more used weapon among competitive players presently. > > > > > > If you doubt what I'm saying, check the "meta" tab of Metabattle. I'm not saying it's gospel, but it backs up what I'm saying 100%. https://metabattle.com/wiki/Conquest > > > > > > > > > > Metabattle **sucks** and is loaded with inferior builds across almost all classes, voted on and curated by completely inept players who are largely golds. There's a reason Angeels made Gods of PvP before he quit. > > > > > > > > It might "suck" but it is correct in this instance, whereas you are **incorrect** if you think sword is superior, and should be used in a broad movement comparison, which you clearly are putting across the forums in an attempt to say warrior movement should be nerfed. Which it shouldn't. > > > > > > > > To further emphasize my point, the build youre referencing was used commonly in November of 2018. It's currently April of 2019, and it has long been recognized as not in the meta. > > > > > > I don't think sword is superior. I use Dagger Shield when I play spellbreaker. I simply see sword shield more often. > > > > > > I know Gods of PvP is out of date. I literally talked about Angeels, the guy who ran it, quitting. > > > > When did I mention Gods of PvP being out of date? Of course it is. Your "seeing" sword more often is confirmation bias. > > Here: > > To further emphasize my point, the build youre referencing was used commonly in November of 2018. It's currently April of 2019, and it has long been recognized as not in the meta. > > I just played 5 matches in a row. 5/5 had me 1v1ing sword+shield spellbreakers. You are getting bizarrely bent out of shape over this. Is this some strange eu meta or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroth.4217 Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > > @"glennypenny.9625" said: > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > > @"Ryan.9387" said: > > > > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > You have options. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Bring a sidenoder > > > > > > > Whether it be a Scrapper, Weaver, Soulbeast or Spellbreaker you can atleast contest 1 of the nodes for your team. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Bring a +1 > > > > > > > Herald is an excellent choice. This means you can come in and kill the already low warrior's in outnumbered fights on node. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Bring a teamfighter > > > > > > > Take your pick, Chronomancer, Necromancer, Firebrand and Holosmith, how about dominating mid and then sending people back and forth to close leaving that poor enemy warr forever alone on far giving you a 4v5? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Bring a Mesmer! > > > > > > > Portal is your friend. Take your other friends with you the world of side nodes. Take two. Even three! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The options are there. > > > > > > > > > > > > isn't portal disabled,since like..ages? > > > > > > > > > > Nah, it's just really bad now. > > > > > > > > i know it got smiter boon'd that's why i say disabled no healthy mesmer would ever use it again > > > > > > should have never been a thing. also delete daggerstorm > > > > > > > Yeah let’s get rid of the one and only useful ability thief has except mobility lol > > You cant deny it is really over tuned for what it does. I mean the meta sd thief or even acro staff already has a ton of evades adding a 4 second that reflects too is kinda silly > I see your point, when someone specs for an evasion build, then and only then it is too much. Is it OP for someone like me who uses DD/PP build and withdraw? Hell no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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