Beautilation.7915 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Clearly there needs to be some rework done to Mirage, is this being looked into? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ojimaru.8970 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Consider for a moment, _just a moment_, that you've spent two years working on a project. Just as you complete it, your stakeholders scream in your face, tell you to throw everything out and start over. Oh, and they want a perfect, well-packaged product in four weeks. How would _you_ respond? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent Noun.7350 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 I'm not sure it's all that clear, to be honest, and even if it was, it's far too early to ask for substantial changes to a brand new elite spec. It's important to remember that what you read on official forums and Reddit isn't necessarily indicative of a majority opinion across the player base. One experienced (anonymous) game developer described this as the ["80, 20, 5 rule"](http://askagamedev.tumblr.com/post/149466049419/80-20-5 ""80, 20, 5 rule"") in an article about how developers look at player feedback. To summarize, though: roughly 5% of any given game's player base is engaged enough to bother posting on forums or subreddits about it. That might be a pretty large number of people, but it's still only a tiny fraction of the number of people actually playing a game. What might seem like the overwhelming opinion of the majority might well just be the consensus among this small group of people. I want to say, though, that it doesn't mean we're _wrong_. I agree that Mirage (and Mesmer as a whole) has problems that should be addressed. Just that it might not be so clear to ArenaNet that it's something that needs to happen, or even be talked about, so soon, when it's feedback that's coming only from a small fraction of players and not based on data gathered over a larger group and a longer period of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Arenanet has tons of metrics and data on all classes. I'm pretty sure they will keep an eye on things. Don't expect drastic or rash changes within the next few weeks though. As mentioned by Agent Noun, the vocal forum community does not necessarily represent the playerbase. Also most game modes have not addapted to PoF builds yet. Once PoF builds have established themselves, the initial balance pass is over and players have settled down on the classes/elites they plan on playing, that's the time when big changes will be decided upon and maybe a 2nd balance pass might happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miroe.2054 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 We can expect for ALL new elite specs to get changes according to general perception and statistics gathered over time. Even if there is no problem at all with mirage statistically, the devs will probably change things marginally just so there is a perceived improvement (see the jaunt buff). Our discussions do matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdboddy.4162 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 > @Beautilation.7915 said: > Clearly there needs to be some rework done to Mirage, is this being looked into? In your opinion, you mean? Obviously, Anet keeps an eye on things. And as the others have said, Anet has all the numbers. The noisy minority isn't right just 'cause it's making noise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyroatheist.9031 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 > @Ojimaru.8970 said: > Consider for a moment, _just a moment_, that you've spent two years working on a project. Just as you complete it, your stakeholders scream in your face, tell you to throw everything out and start over. Oh, and they want a perfect, well-packaged product in four weeks. How would _you_ respond? I might reflect that perhaps I should have involved the stakeholders earlier in the process than presenting them with a finished product that didn't actually match any of the deliverable requirements they had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaboBabo.3581 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Lol its about bugs folks. Axe 3 bug , staff ambush bug , dune cloak bug/tooltip. Basically they released dune cloak with a wrong tooltip. If u dont know ; 3 stacks bleed for 4 seconds, not 2 for 6... 9 guardian bug fixes 2 mesmer bug fixes. Anger is programmed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trooper.2650 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 It took them two, **two full weeks**, to reply to a ticket concerning connectivity issues. I am sure they will do something about mesmer profession but when... _that_ is the real question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdboddy.4162 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 > @trooper.2650 said: > It took them two, **two full weeks**, to reply to a ticket concerning connectivity issues. I am sure they will do something about mesmer profession but when... _that_ is the real question The connectivity issues are totally separate from balancing the professions. They might have taken some time to go through the tickets due to the number of them. Anet is purposefully going to wait before doing any sort of balancing in order to get a proper idea of the numbers involved. Then they will act. At least, one hopes that is how it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carighan.6758 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 > @Ojimaru.8970 said: > Consider for a moment, _just a moment_, that you've spent two years working on a project. Just as you complete it, your stakeholders scream in your face, tell you to throw everything out and start over. Oh, and they want a perfect, well-packaged product in four weeks. How would _you_ respond? Shrug? Every single software project ever is like that. Okay, minus the two years because despite it being work for two years you only get 18 months to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaboBabo.3581 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Its not about balance in the first Plays , i can wait for it. Its about bugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cantatus.4065 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 > @FaboBabo.3581 said: > Its not about balance in the first Plays , i can wait for it. Its about bugs. Yeah, balance is always complicated, especially with a new spec like this that players are still figuring out, and is something that can and should take time - but I'm hoping some bug fixes are incoming soon. They really can't balance a class properly until it actually functions the way it's supposed to. Having several of our new abilities be unreliable and just completely misfire has a pretty big impact on the effectiveness of the class and how it feels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaboBabo.3581 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 > @Cantatus.4065 said: > > @FaboBabo.3581 said: > > Its not about balance in the first Plays , i can wait for it. Its about bugs. > > Yeah, balance is always complicated, especially with a new spec like this that players are still figuring out, and is something that can and should take time - but I'm hoping some bug fixes are incoming soon. They really can't balance a class properly until it actually functions the way it's supposed to. Having several of our new abilities be unreliable and just completely misfire has a pretty big impact on the effectiveness of the class and how it feels. exactly ; im talkin about things like staff ambush, which fails to hit targets, cause it get blocked by the ground. Even if the devs wanted it to be coded that way in the first place : real life showed us it's not working, and therefore the whole skill is not working, which is something i call "bug". Pls fix bugs like that, and then we can look if mirage is actually viable and really good in current state, or if mirage/mesmer in general? , needs further buffs. Im pretty sure my staff / sword/troch - build is going the be a lot stronger if my staff ambush works. The thing here is ; staff ambush has been like that since beta. They changed things for launch. They did not change staff ambush for launch. They dont mention changing it right now after launch. Therefore our question : Can we get an statement? Do you think its okay for abilitys to be blocked by air, ground , butterflies ? Cause seriously, currently it looks like AN likes those things. I try to be very clear with it ; Tell me u need 1 year from now on to fix all mirage stuff. I'd say ok, if u need that time, I'll give u, stay playing ur Game. Right now, i feel left alone. Gimme anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levetty.1279 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 > @pdboddy.4162 said: > > @Beautilation.7915 said: > > Clearly there needs to be some rework done to Mirage, is this being looked into? > > In your opinion, you mean? > > Obviously, Anet keeps an eye on things. And as the others have said, Anet has all the numbers. > > The noisy minority isn't right just 'cause it's making noise. Anet based Mirage around a mechanic that has been repeatedly shown not to work and rejected by the other classes it was tried on. Clearly it is not just Beautilation's opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esplen.3940 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 > @pdboddy.4162 said: > > @trooper.2650 said: > > It took them two, **two full weeks**, to reply to a ticket concerning connectivity issues. I am sure they will do something about mesmer profession but when... _that_ is the real question > > The connectivity issues are totally separate from balancing the professions. They might have taken some time to go through the tickets due to the number of them. Anet is purposefully going to wait before doing any sort of balancing in order to get a proper idea of the numbers involved. Then they will act. At least, one hopes that is how it goes. Keep in mind, most support tickets go through a third party company contracted out. Also, even if it wasn't contracted out, it's completely separate teams (and the release of an expansion is bound to have support tickets flooding in). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carighan.6758 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 I think the problem with Axe 2 is why it depends on a server reply to fire the initial attack to begin with? When most other attacks fire immediately, **then** check in with the server whether you hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyroatheist.9031 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 > @Carighan.6758 said: > I think the problem with Axe 2 is why it depends on a server reply to fire the initial attack to begin with? When most other attacks fire immediately, **then** check in with the server whether you hit. It's hard to put your finger on what exactly is wrong with axe 2, but it's very easy to notice that something is seriously wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 > @Ojimaru.8970 said: > Consider for a moment, _just a moment_, that you've spent two years working on a project. Just as you complete it, your stakeholders scream in your face, tell you to throw everything out and start over. Oh, and they want a perfect, well-packaged product in four weeks. How would _you_ respond? I would let them know that I hear their complaints, and understand why they have them. I might try to explain what I was thinking with the design if I still stood by it, and if I'd already considered their criticisms I would explain why I didn't go the way they'd expected, but I would also try to work with them to reach a better solution, one that properly addresses their concerns. What I definitely would _never_ do is go completely radio silent until I had a completely _new_ finished project, one which they may not like any better than the existing one. I don't expect them to fix the various PoF classes immediately, but I do expect to hear that they are _working_ on fixes immediately, and to be given some idea of what those fixes might entail. Personally I don't think the Mirage is the worst of the classes though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 I kinda hope if they wnd up reworking it that they dont make condi mirage any more silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bod.8261 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 I'm pretty sure they have their hands full with fixing bugs atm. Not only the new areas and specs, but they also introduced new problems to old areas. There are i.e. new invisible walls in HoT maps and some of them block of achievements. After the mayority of bugs are fixed we can expect tooltip corrections and reworks of clunky mechanics. Actual class balance? Maybe next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 > @Bod.8261 said: > I'm pretty sure they have their hands full with fixing bugs atm. Not only the new areas and specs, but they also introduced new problems to old areas. There are i.e. new invisible walls in HoT maps and some of them block of achievements. > > After the mayority of bugs are fixed we can expect tooltip corrections and reworks of clunky mechanics. > Actual class balance? Maybe next year. It's important to keep in mind that different devs work on different parts of the game, they don't just shift around to all work on the highest priority issue, they only work on the most important aspects _within their specific portion of the game._ The lead balance devs probably have nothing to do with things like invisible walls, those are environment people. There might be some limitations on creating new art (which they don't seem to need at the moment), or maybe pulling in outside programmers to rig up completely new effects, but the people who would be working to improve the elite specs should have nothing to do with their time _but_ working on the elite specs (aside from balance passes on existing builds, and perhaps working up new skills for future content). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlashugged.7642 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 > @Beautilation.7915 said: > Clearly there needs to be some rework done to Mirage, is this being looked into? I don't think complaints on this forum are indicative of anything being necessary, and as far as I can tell Mirage is pretty balanced. I'd like to see ambush traits tweaked, but I don't think it's necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vahn.9351 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 The only thing that really saddens me is that we get a Mirage spec working with clones... using illusions on its "Quantify recommended" build... I know Quantify doesn't decide what is the game, but it's just sad that the main object of this spec, the clones, is kind of useless -so to speak-. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carighan.6758 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 > @Vahn.9351 said: > The only thing that really saddens me is that we get a Mirage spec working with clones... using illusions on its "Quantify recommended" build... > I know Quantify doesn't decide what is the game, but it's just sad that the main object of this spec, the clones, is kind of useless -so to speak-. That's because the spec isn't actually about clones. Yes there is IH, but it's so weak that you wouldn't pick it for top DPS. It's an issue with the **base class**. Mesmer has too many mechanics directly opposing one another, a problem they share with kits-vs-everything-else on Engineers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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