Aldath.1275 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 It isn't as bad as I thought... We could be in a worst sport, honestly, I'd rather be "meh" than Power Reaper tier. https://qtfy.eu/guildwars/engineer/power-holosmith/ In Fact the one who was gutted was poor Power Deadeye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagrant.7206 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 34k, which I think was about what was known already. Looks like the rotation is "PF, spam 4 when available, otherwise autoattack and laser disk" followed by cycling through the most powerful attacks of rifle, nades, bomb, and lasergun when overheated. Edit: Their discussion thread on reddit: Condition builds used Pinpoint Distribution. (roughly 3% - 3.5% dps increase depending on class [for example almost none on condi mesmer])We thought about removing this from realistic buffs since Engineer is quite below other Condi classes and might not be worth to take anymore but we decided to wait for the next balance patch to see if anything changes. In other words, the whole class is in a bad state -- we're not likely to be anywhere near top or "middling" meta for fractals, raids, PvP, or WvW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamantium.3682 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 34 isn't good considering what everything above Holo can also bring to a group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toeofdoom.6152 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Keep in mind their standard boons still include pd, but not assassin's presence from rev. Which boosts Condi numbers a little unrealistically - they mention this in the reddit post, but understandably don't want to spend time retesting everything when balance patches could be nearby. If you find a rev buddy, your subgroup should have very similar dps to one bringing 2x scourge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamantium.3682 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 The more I look at it the more frustrated I become by this whole Holosmith balance situation... Before PoF: 3 builds/professions above Engi. After PoF (which included a _pure damage elite spec_): 6 professions ahead of Engineer, 7 builds (!) And the last two professions? One is practically equal (but it's Condi so will generally be preferred in this meta, not to mention incredible utility potential) and the other will be in every raid anyways being a PS War! Just about the only positive is two really close Engi builds. That sort of hollow when neither is great though, but it's nice to see. Yeah, they're just benchmarks and it's not what you'll see in practice. But it's a scale that Engi has fallen far behind on. I mean come on, qT is looking at numbers showing even Pinpoint Distribution (3% to condi builds) isn't even worth taking an Engi for. That was supposed to be a nice buff to Engi utility not something that would be considered the only reason to bring Engi... Anet dropped the ball badly on this one. I still believe it's easy to fix by tweaking numbers. But if the first post PoF balance patch doesn't address this I will be very disappointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamahl.3621 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 "Salty Vindication". Kitten it all. Any ballpark estimate on the upcoming balance patch? All I heard was "Halloween", although I have several other games to play that won't irritate me anyway that are fresh and squeaky new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagrant.7206 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 > @Adamantium.3682 said: > Anet dropped the ball badly on this one. I still believe it's easy to fix by tweaking numbers. But if the first post PoF balance patch doesn't address this I will be very disappointed. Knowing how their "balance team" works, we will see a nerf that gets touted as a buff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephalem.8921 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Never forget Power engi nerf sold as an Explosion rework. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoyoko.7309 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 well.....you know...judging from our long-standing history of nerfs and discrimination against engi...should we at least be surprised that holosmith made the meta? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ With simple rotation as well...... Plus! if you look at the list, we are the only profession at the moment with a competitive power build against condi. We have...a power build that is better than...condi atm What! What! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! I.....sense......progress..... ......ish.....(crosses all fingers and toes) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldath.1275 Posted October 5, 2017 Author Share Posted October 5, 2017 > @Shoyoko.7309 said: > well.....you know...judging from our long-standing history of nerfs and discrimination against engi...should we at least be surprised that holosmith made the meta? > ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ > With simple rotation as well...... > Plus! if you look at the list, we are the only profession at the moment with a competitive power build against condi. > We have...a power build that is better than...condi atm > What! > What! > o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! > > I.....sense......progress..... > ......ish.....(crosses all fingers and toes) I repeat, I'd rather be "trash tier" and inside the meta than being Power Reaper or Power Revenant levels of useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukuni.8745 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 anet could give glass cannon a buff to 10% instead of 5% no pvper in there right mind is genna take that in spvp/wvw so its straight up a pve and yolosmith buff and yolosmith aint never genna be meta sadly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamantium.3682 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 > @Aldath.1275 said: > > @Shoyoko.7309 said: > > well.....you know...judging from our long-standing history of nerfs and discrimination against engi...should we at least be surprised that holosmith made the meta? > > ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ > > With simple rotation as well...... > > Plus! if you look at the list, we are the only profession at the moment with a competitive power build against condi. > > We have...a power build that is better than...condi atm > > What! > > What! > > o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! > > > > I.....sense......progress..... > > ......ish.....(crosses all fingers and toes) > > I repeat, I'd rather be "trash tier" and inside the meta than being Power Reaper or Power Revenant levels of useless. Odd choice of words there, I'd love to be maining a Necro or Revenant right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krag.6210 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 > @Aldath.1275 said: > I repeat, I'd rather be "trash tier" and inside the meta than being Power Reaper or Power Revenant levels of useless. At least you'd have the option to be something good instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toeofdoom.6152 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 So to illustrate the importance of support, let's try this... The benchmarks are approximately: Scourge: 39k Renegade: 37k + ap Holosmith: 34k + pd So how does this work in practice if we try some comps? Scourge + scourge - no pd means 1k less dps each. 39k + 39k - 2k = 76k Scourge + holosmith - pd means about 1.5k more from your Condi ps and Condi druid: 39k + 34k + 1.5k = 74.5k Revenant + holosmith - ap means +2k for holo, +1k for support and again, the +1.5k for your supports from pd 37k + 34k + 2k + 3.5k = 76.5k Now this comp does have disadvantages - the ranged dps and burst dps are not so high. It also has some advantages over scourge like more cc skills and the extensive range of utilities available to engineer. It's got tradeoffs, but power holo looks like it's in a decent place to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bovan.9481 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 > @Toeofdoom.6152 said: > If you find a rev buddy, your subgroup should have very similar dps to one bringing 2x scourge Hah, I hadn't thought of this yet but it's super funny to me that power Holosmith buffs the Renegade and Renegade buffs the Holosmith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighter.5631 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 could be worse, but still disappointed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leviathan.2148 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 It's not bad, it has quite simple rotation, could be worse. I still dislike that there's again prevalence of kits but it's getting better at least. IMO if Anet reworked hard light arena to be used all the time and only as a boon sharing tool, might stacking engi could be a good option. Anyway with the current state IMO Holo could use a dmg buff when it brings basically nothing besides dmg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoyoko.7309 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 > @Adamantium.3682 said: > > @Aldath.1275 said: > > > @Shoyoko.7309 said: > > > well.....you know...judging from our long-standing history of nerfs and discrimination against engi...should we at least be surprised that holosmith made the meta? > > > ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ > > > With simple rotation as well...... > > > Plus! if you look at the list, we are the only profession at the moment with a competitive power build against condi. > > > We have...a power build that is better than...condi atm > > > What! > > > What! > > > o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! > > > > > > I.....sense......progress..... > > > ......ish.....(crosses all fingers and toes) > > > > I repeat, I'd rather be "trash tier" and inside the meta than being Power Reaper or Power Revenant levels of useless. > > Odd choice of words there, I'd love to be maining a Necro or Revenant right now. Necros must be over the moon right now, used to be considered the worst to now the best. Sigh...holosmith...I would be okay for this if it wasn't for the high risk mechanism.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaba.5410 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 "Photonforge has good skills but they don’t scale properly with weapons strength" /sigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamantium.3682 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 > @Shoyoko.7309 said: > > @Adamantium.3682 said: > > > @Aldath.1275 said: > > > > @Shoyoko.7309 said: > > > > well.....you know...judging from our long-standing history of nerfs and discrimination against engi...should we at least be surprised that holosmith made the meta? > > > > ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ > > > > With simple rotation as well...... > > > > Plus! if you look at the list, we are the only profession at the moment with a competitive power build against condi. > > > > We have...a power build that is better than...condi atm > > > > What! > > > > What! > > > > o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! > > > > > > > > I.....sense......progress..... > > > > ......ish.....(crosses all fingers and toes) > > > > > > I repeat, I'd rather be "trash tier" and inside the meta than being Power Reaper or Power Revenant levels of useless. > > > > Odd choice of words there, I'd love to be maining a Necro or Revenant right now. > > Necros must be over the moon right now, used to be considered the worst to now the best. Sigh...holosmith...I would be okay for this if it wasn't for the high risk mechanism.. So you are okay with the DPS numbers it's the minor heat damage you have a problem with? Not being confrontational, Just asking, it seems like that is the point you're making. I don't get that argument... Removing heat damage would put us on the same situation, on the outside of raid groups looking in. Notice how qT said nothing about the heat mechanic, except that with normal raid heals being thrown around you should be able to keep up Scholar just as much as anyone else. Heat damage is a red herring, it has nothing to do with Engi's placement in the raid list... Giving heat so much attention takes away from the real problems IMO. It would be really frustrating if Holo damage wasn't touched but after all these complaints heat damage was reduced. That is not the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leviathan.2148 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 Making the Forge scale with the equipped weapons could help us a lot IMO. If they are concerned about its dmg in pvp then whatever, split it from pvp and let it scale only for pve and wvw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoyoko.7309 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 > @Adamantium.3682 said: > > @Shoyoko.7309 said: > > > @Adamantium.3682 said: > > > > @Aldath.1275 said: > > > > > @Shoyoko.7309 said: > > > > > well.....you know...judging from our long-standing history of nerfs and discrimination against engi...should we at least be surprised that holosmith made the meta? > > > > > ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ > > > > > With simple rotation as well...... > > > > > Plus! if you look at the list, we are the only profession at the moment with a competitive power build against condi. > > > > > We have...a power build that is better than...condi atm > > > > > What! > > > > > What! > > > > > o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! > > > > > > > > > > I.....sense......progress..... > > > > > ......ish.....(crosses all fingers and toes) > > > > > > > > I repeat, I'd rather be "trash tier" and inside the meta than being Power Reaper or Power Revenant levels of useless. > > > > > > Odd choice of words there, I'd love to be maining a Necro or Revenant right now. > > > > Necros must be over the moon right now, used to be considered the worst to now the best. Sigh...holosmith...I would be okay for this if it wasn't for the high risk mechanism.. > > So you are okay with the DPS numbers it's the minor heat damage you have a problem with? Not being confrontational, Just asking, it seems like that is the point you're making. > > I don't get that argument... Removing heat damage would put us on the same situation, on the outside of raid groups looking in. Notice how qT said nothing about the heat mechanic, except that with normal raid heals being thrown around you should be able to keep up Scholar just as much as anyone else. > > Heat damage is a red herring, it has nothing to do with Engi's placement in the raid list... Giving heat so much attention takes away from the real problems IMO. It would be really frustrating if Holo damage wasn't touched but after all these complaints heat damage was reduced. That is not the problem. meh... just saying.. I'm ok being at 34k with no risk or..having one of the top dps with risk. I get it that you want people to prioritise on holo damage to be buffed (and probably the whole of engi really) as our power and condi build are outdone by 7 professions but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Like after 5 years of compulsory engi nerf breakfast it's like... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Of course I would want our dps to be higher but I am just a least a bit happy that our new elite spec do even as much as 34k... however I don't get the high risk high reward mechanism escpecially with these new results, all the more our damage should be buffed. But... I get it Just.. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Red Arachnid.2493 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 And here I was, hoping that the sword could be a replacement for being married to the bomb auto. I guess in low quickness scenarios it'll be pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timo.1065 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 That new meta is so ridiculis. ANet prepared new specialisation to use sword and shield or pistol. And after that meta is rifle. I play engi since release, and this class realy mis range attack. So mayby it is good to still use rifle. The problem of xpack is it don't change fealing of this class. What is wrong with ANet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lalainnia.3598 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 Btw any fight that has a boss moving a bit or to much in general will screw over scourge in terms of its shade placement. Out of all the classes I honestly think Renegade is the beast especially considering mesmer clones don't interact properly with the summoning skills in the benchmarks so that's something to consider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now