PvP Amulet and Rune Additions

[ukuni.8745]

Id like to see a power++toughness++precision+boon duration+ amulet

[witcher.3197]

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> We’re not adding Rebirth.

 

<3

[Crinn.7864]

> @Kyon.9735 said:

> Cele Holo and Reaper might benefit the most with Celestial. Holos has good might stacking skill (Photon Forge #3) on a low CD. Reapers get a lot of might from traits.

 

Reaper's might stacking isn't as good as you'd think. Spite's passive might generation only occurs on targets below 50% HP. Even with strength runes, Reaper generally floats around 12 stacks of might with full stacks of 25 only occurring erratically.

[Exedore.6320]

> @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" is there any chance that the 3 stat amulets can be reworked so their total stat allocation is on par with the 4 stat/Proposed Cele Amulet at 3220 Total stat points?

 

I would rather see the 4-stat amulets go down and remove some of the power creep.

 

But what'd I'd really like to see is a mix-and-match stat system so that we we're so dependent on what Devs decide to add. With all the new selections, I think the argument about needing complete control is no longer valid.

[Ario.8964]

> @flow.6043 said:

> > @Ario.8964 said:

> > > @Kiritodatrth.1548 said:

> > > Why not Precision, CD, healing power, vitality? (yeap Im thinking about scourge)...

> >

> > Because an amulet like that would be so utterly game breaking with the way condi works now you'd have to bring the world's biggest nerf to conditions or end up with everyone running some sort of immortal condi build. If you nerf conditions I'd be down for something like this to hybridize support and condition damage but atm absolutely not.

>

> You do realize that the Sage amulet exists, right? That's power/condi>healing/vitality.

>

> Btw, scourges get more dps from power than precision, even in condition builds.

> Also, carrion gives scourges more defense, because the extra vitality makes more of a difference than scaling barriers with 560 healing power.

 

Sage amulet exists yes but there's a sacrifice of precision so many builds can't stack extra condis through crits. For things like necro (Say you run curses) and you have sage vs this amulet the one with precision will have an absurdly higher condi damage stat plus higher stacking ability than sage. In addition to that the healing power gives it higher support to it's allies without sacrificing the ability to achieve higher condition damage (healing and precision on the same amulet) so this would be leagues better than sage. And also please realize scourge isn't the only class in the game that would run this type of amulet. Condition engineer could utilize something like this, condition ranger/soulbeast, etc. It's not a good idea for an addition until conditions have their damage reduced in some form.

[R E F L H E X.8413]

> @Exedore.6320 said:

> > @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

> > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" is there any chance that the 3 stat amulets can be reworked so their total stat allocation is on par with the 4 stat/Proposed Cele Amulet at 3220 Total stat points?

>

> I would rather see the 4-stat amulets go down and remove some of the power creep.

 

A global nerfing doesnt sound too bad to tone down everything a little bit. Drop the 3 stat amulets down some before even starting.

 

[flow.6043]

> @Ario.8964 said:

> > @flow.6043 said:

> > > @Ario.8964 said:

> > > > @Kiritodatrth.1548 said:

> > > > Why not Precision, CD, healing power, vitality? (yeap Im thinking about scourge)...

> > >

> > > Because an amulet like that would be so utterly game breaking with the way condi works now you'd have to bring the world's biggest nerf to conditions or end up with everyone running some sort of immortal condi build. If you nerf conditions I'd be down for something like this to hybridize support and condition damage but atm absolutely not.

> >

> > You do realize that the Sage amulet exists, right? That's power/condi>healing/vitality.

> >

> > Btw, scourges get more dps from power than precision, even in condition builds.

> > Also, carrion gives scourges more defense, because the extra vitality makes more of a difference than scaling barriers with 560 healing power.

>

> Sage amulet exists yes but there's a sacrifice of precision so many builds can't stack extra condis through crits. For things like necro (Say you run curses) and you have sage vs this amulet the one with precision will have an absurdly higher condi damage stat plus higher stacking ability than sage. In addition to that the healing power gives it higher support to it's allies without sacrificing the ability to achieve higher condition damage (healing and precision on the same amulet) so this would be leagues better than sage. And also please realize scourge isn't the only class in the game that would run this type of amulet. Condition engineer could utilize something like this, condition ranger/soulbeast, etc. It's not a good idea for an addition until conditions have their damage reduced in some form.

 

First of all, I only mentioned scourge in response to Kiritodatrth, because apparently he - just like you - doesn't understand that having precision instead of power means lower damage.

And yes, I have factored in the possibility that he might run Curses.

And no, Barbed Pecision can't make up the difference in direct damage. Especially since Curses has Furious Demise and Target the Weak, so you'll land some crits even if you don't have any precision at all. And that's not even counting other crit modifiers.

 

Secondly, I realize there are other classes, but in regards to this fictional amulet the result would be the same. Sage is already a better version of it so you're making a fuss about nothing.

[Highlie.7641]

• Power: 1050, Condition Damage: 1050, Vitality: 560, Precision: 560

 

Can we get one with Ferocity instead of precision, for us thief's trying (and failing) to craft a hybrid set for years. Even if it's only for a day or two until it get's pulled for being op. make it happen :D

[zealex.9410]

> @"Lost Elegy.9276" said:

> > @Crinn.7864 said:

> > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> > > **Runes**

> > > We’re adding all the new profession runes except Scourge. We’re not adding Rebirth.

> >

> > Why not Scourge? I understand not adding Rebirth, but whats wrong with scourge runes? 3k barrier on a 75sec cooldown is hardly OP, and sPvP has a definitive lack of condi damage + healing power amulets.

> >

> >

>

> Because the team is clearly going to be making massive changes to Scourge. It was marketed as a support spec, and yet currently the damage numbers it puts out are unacceptable in every applicable mode. From PvE to WvW or SPvP, Scourge has become MANDATORY.

 

Prob because w/e could drag out a fight isnt really liked by the playerbase.

[AtlasSi.9130]

Settlers? I'd love to get my base shout war back.

[Archon.6480]

We need a rune for condition Druid:

 

1050 condition, 1050 Healing, 560 vitality, 560 expertise.

 

1050 condition, 1050 Healing, 560 precision, 560 expertise.

 

And one for zerk Druid:

1050 power, 1050 healing, 560 precision, 560 ferocity.

 

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

> @Highlie.7641 said:

> • Power: 1050, Condition Damage: 1050, Vitality: 560, Precision: 560

>

> Can we get one with Ferocity instead of precision, for us thief's trying (and failing) to craft a hybrid set for years. Even if it's only for a day or two until it get's pulled for being op. make it happen :D

 

Um, what's the point of Ferocity if you have base crit chance? Even if you intended on using it with Hidden Killer, everytime you do not crit, the stats are completely wasted.

[messiah.1908]

lets compare power amulet and try to copy them to condition ones

 

condi mender - condition, precision, vitality, healing

condi paladin - condition, toughness, vitality, precision

condi marauder - condition, precision, vitality, expertise

condi vlak - condition, vitality, expertise

 

 

 

diviner and seeker unplayable without vitality ...

 

[ThatNAESLGuard.6238]

There should never be an amulet with condi damage and 2 defensive stats. Ever.

[Crinn.7864]

> @flow.6043 said:

> > @Ario.8964 said:

> > > @flow.6043 said:

> > > > @Ario.8964 said:

> > > > > @Kiritodatrth.1548 said:

> > > > > Why not Precision, CD, healing power, vitality? (yeap Im thinking about scourge)...

> > > >

> > > > Because an amulet like that would be so utterly game breaking with the way condi works now you'd have to bring the world's biggest nerf to conditions or end up with everyone running some sort of immortal condi build. If you nerf conditions I'd be down for something like this to hybridize support and condition damage but atm absolutely not.

> > >

> > > You do realize that the Sage amulet exists, right? That's power/condi>healing/vitality.

> > >

> > > Btw, scourges get more dps from power than precision, even in condition builds.

> > > Also, carrion gives scourges more defense, because the extra vitality makes more of a difference than scaling barriers with 560 healing power.

> >

> > Sage amulet exists yes but there's a sacrifice of precision so many builds can't stack extra condis through crits. For things like necro (Say you run curses) and you have sage vs this amulet the one with precision will have an absurdly higher condi damage stat plus higher stacking ability than sage. In addition to that the healing power gives it higher support to it's allies without sacrificing the ability to achieve higher condition damage (healing and precision on the same amulet) so this would be leagues better than sage. And also please realize scourge isn't the only class in the game that would run this type of amulet. Condition engineer could utilize something like this, condition ranger/soulbeast, etc. It's not a good idea for an addition until conditions have their damage reduced in some form.

>

> First of all, I only mentioned scourge in response to Kiritodatrth, because apparently he - just like you - doesn't understand that having precision instead of power means lower damage.

> And yes, I have factored in the possibility that he might run Curses.

> And no, Barbed Pecision can't make up the difference in direct damage. Especially since Curses has Furious Demise and Target the Weak, so you'll land some crits even if you don't have any precision at all. And that's not even counting other crit modifiers.

>

> Secondly, I realize there are other classes, but in regards to this fictional amulet the result would be the same. Sage is already a better version of it so you're making a fuss about nothing.

 

You are forgetting Target the Weak's conversion of precision into condition damage. You are also forgetting how restricted curses traits are if you don't have crit. (you can't make plague sending work on a scourge build that doesn't have precision) You are also forgetting the importance of Barbed precision for cover conditions.

 

And before you bring up Target the Weak's 2% bonus to crit per condi, I will point out that is way to unreliable to be beneficial, particularly since it only gives a noticeable amount of crit if the target has already been condi bombed, at which point you've already won.

 

Any case where you have two amulets with the same amount of condition damage but one has power while the other has precision, the precision one will be better for a curses build. (for scourge, reaper is different do to death perception)

[messiah.1908]

> @ThatNAESLGuard.6238 said:

> There should never be an amulet with condi damage and 2 defensive stats. Ever.

 

why not , you have power with defensive states and condi is also a mean to do dmg.

[NotASmurf.1725]

> @messiah.1908 said:

> > @ThatNAESLGuard.6238 said:

> > There should never be an amulet with condi damage and 2 defensive stats. Ever.

>

> why not , you have power with defensive states and condi is also a mean to do dmg.

 

Because condi only really needs 1 stat to do damage and all the defensive stuff is free while power has to sacrifice damage for defensive stats.

[flow.6043]

> @Crinn.7864 said:

> > @flow.6043 said:

> > > @Ario.8964 said:

> > > > @flow.6043 said:

> > > > > @Ario.8964 said:

> > > > > > @Kiritodatrth.1548 said:

> > > > > > Why not Precision, CD, healing power, vitality? (yeap Im thinking about scourge)...

> > > > >

> > > > > Because an amulet like that would be so utterly game breaking with the way condi works now you'd have to bring the world's biggest nerf to conditions or end up with everyone running some sort of immortal condi build. If you nerf conditions I'd be down for something like this to hybridize support and condition damage but atm absolutely not.

> > > >

> > > > You do realize that the Sage amulet exists, right? That's power/condi>healing/vitality.

> > > >

> > > > Btw, scourges get more dps from power than precision, even in condition builds.

> > > > Also, carrion gives scourges more defense, because the extra vitality makes more of a difference than scaling barriers with 560 healing power.

> > >

> > > Sage amulet exists yes but there's a sacrifice of precision so many builds can't stack extra condis through crits. For things like necro (Say you run curses) and you have sage vs this amulet the one with precision will have an absurdly higher condi damage stat plus higher stacking ability than sage. In addition to that the healing power gives it higher support to it's allies without sacrificing the ability to achieve higher condition damage (healing and precision on the same amulet) so this would be leagues better than sage. And also please realize scourge isn't the only class in the game that would run this type of amulet. Condition engineer could utilize something like this, condition ranger/soulbeast, etc. It's not a good idea for an addition until conditions have their damage reduced in some form.

> >

> > First of all, I only mentioned scourge in response to Kiritodatrth, because apparently he - just like you - doesn't understand that having precision instead of power means lower damage.

> > And yes, I have factored in the possibility that he might run Curses.

> > And no, Barbed Pecision can't make up the difference in direct damage. Especially since Curses has Furious Demise and Target the Weak, so you'll land some crits even if you don't have any precision at all. And that's not even counting other crit modifiers.

> >

> > Secondly, I realize there are other classes, but in regards to this fictional amulet the result would be the same. Sage is already a better version of it so you're making a fuss about nothing.

>

> You are forgetting Target the Weak's conversion of precision into condition damage.

 

No, I didn't forget. With 1050 precision you get 15.7 burn damage per stack and 8 dmg per bleeding/torment. Even with several stacks of each, casting a single Locust Swarm will do more damage if you have power instead of precision.

 

And btw, above I mentioned Carrion as a better option than both for necro. With that amulet you get more condition damage anyway, especially with Scavenging runes.

 

> You are also forgetting how restricted curses traits are if you don't have crit.

 

Plague Sending and Barbed Precision are literally the only crit proc traits in Curses.

 

> you can't make plague sending work on a scourge build that doesn't have precision

 

Maybe you are forgetting Furious Demise? Or the fact that you can get crit buffs from allies?

It's totally reasonable to occasionally get 30-40% crit chance without any precision. So Plague Sending might trigger on the third hit instead of the first or second, but it still works reliably.

 

> You are also forgetting the importance of Barbed precision for cover conditions.

 

Because Barbed Precision is your only source of bleeding? Pls...

 

> Target the Weak ... only gives a noticeable amount of crit if the target has already been condi bombed, at which point you've already won.

 

With the current state of PvP almost everyone in every fight is perma-condi-bombed, but some of those fights can drag on for minutes.

 

> Any case where you have two amulets with the same amount of condition damage but one has power while the other has precision, the precision one will be better for a curses build.

 

This feels like a deja vu. We had the exact same discussions on the necro forum in 2012 and 2013 when people where still arguing over Carrion vs Rabid.

Curses traits were a little different back then, but your arguements are the same, and they are just as wrong as 5 years ago.

 

[messiah.1908]

> @NotASmurf.1725 said:

> > @messiah.1908 said:

> > > @ThatNAESLGuard.6238 said:

> > > There should never be an amulet with condi damage and 2 defensive stats. Ever.

> >

> > why not , you have power with defensive states and condi is also a mean to do dmg.

>

> Because condi only really needs 1 stat to do damage and all the defensive stuff is free while power has to sacrifice damage for defensive stats.

 

ok so why engi and ranger and ele take mender.

curses necro needs precision .

condition dmg need condition duration also....

 

you want to say condition need 1 state to do ok dmg while power need 3 state to do huge dmg....

[tomwjd.8172]

add internal cooldown on weaver rune so it doesn't get abused by builds that can spam multiple leap finishers back to back. I don't really wanna see build varieties getting gutted because of one rune mechanic.

[NotASmurf.1725]

> @messiah.1908 said:

> > @NotASmurf.1725 said:

> > > @messiah.1908 said:

> > > > @ThatNAESLGuard.6238 said:

> > > > There should never be an amulet with condi damage and 2 defensive stats. Ever.

> > >

> > > why not , you have power with defensive states and condi is also a mean to do dmg.

> >

> > Because condi only really needs 1 stat to do damage and all the defensive stuff is free while power has to sacrifice damage for defensive stats.

>

> ok so why engi and ranger and ele take mender.

> curses necro needs precision .

> condition dmg need condition duration also....

>

> you want to say condition need 1 state to do ok dmg while power need 3 state to do huge dmg....

 

Did you really just ask that? Engi ranger and ele take mender because mender has more healing power than any condition amulet and their kit for bunkering doesn't have much condition damage (druid staff is power, scrapper hammer is power, d/f is mostly power), so if you want to bunker AND do some damage then mender it is. Most of these examples you bring up either are wrong or only apply because anet doesn't allow the optimal amulets for the specs.

[messiah.1908]

> @NotASmurf.1725 said:

> > @messiah.1908 said:

> > > @NotASmurf.1725 said:

> > > > @messiah.1908 said:

> > > > > @ThatNAESLGuard.6238 said:

> > > > > There should never be an amulet with condi damage and 2 defensive stats. Ever.

> > > >

> > > > why not , you have power with defensive states and condi is also a mean to do dmg.

> > >

> > > Because condi only really needs 1 stat to do damage and all the defensive stuff is free while power has to sacrifice damage for defensive stats.

> >

> > ok so why engi and ranger and ele take mender.

> > curses necro needs precision .

> > condition dmg need condition duration also....

> >

> > you want to say condition need 1 state to do ok dmg while power need 3 state to do huge dmg....

>

> Did you really just ask that? Engi ranger and ele take mender because mender has more healing power than any condition amulet and their kit for bunkering doesn't have much condition damage (druid staff is power, scrapper hammer is power, d/f is mostly power), so if you want to bunker AND do some damage then mender it is. Most of these examples you bring up either are wrong or only apply because anet doesn't allow the optimal amulets for the specs.

 

so you agree they take power to do dmg while having healing power. so what is wrong with condition and healing power..... ?!!!! if i want to bunker and do condition dmg why is it wrong? if you saying no bunker should have any dmg at all no power or condition this is different story

[NotASmurf.1725]

> @messiah.1908 said:

> > @NotASmurf.1725 said:

> > > @messiah.1908 said:

> > > > @NotASmurf.1725 said:

> > > > > @messiah.1908 said:

> > > > > > @ThatNAESLGuard.6238 said:

> > > > > > There should never be an amulet with condi damage and 2 defensive stats. Ever.

> > > > >

> > > > > why not , you have power with defensive states and condi is also a mean to do dmg.

> > > >

> > > > Because condi only really needs 1 stat to do damage and all the defensive stuff is free while power has to sacrifice damage for defensive stats.

> > >

> > > ok so why engi and ranger and ele take mender.

> > > curses necro needs precision .

> > > condition dmg need condition duration also....

> > >

> > > you want to say condition need 1 state to do ok dmg while power need 3 state to do huge dmg....

> >

> > Did you really just ask that? Engi ranger and ele take mender because mender has more healing power than any condition amulet and their kit for bunkering doesn't have much condition damage (druid staff is power, scrapper hammer is power, d/f is mostly power), so if you want to bunker AND do some damage then mender it is. Most of these examples you bring up either are wrong or only apply because anet doesn't allow the optimal amulets for the specs.

>

> so you agree they take power to do dmg while having healing power. so what is wrong with condition and healing power..... ?!!!! if i want to bunker and do condition dmg why is it wrong? if you saying no bunker should have any dmg at all no power or condition this is different story

 

Because to do proper power damage you need power precision ferocity but to do similar if not better damage you only need condi damage stat.

 

Dedicated bunkers aren't the problem those always ran power amulets anyways, It's the duels. Toughness/condition damage/healing power should be able to beat any power build 1v1 on point because eventually you'll run out of cleanses and lose while the condi tank will still be fine.

[Ario.8964]

> @NotASmurf.1725 said:

> > @messiah.1908 said:

> > > @NotASmurf.1725 said:

> > > > @messiah.1908 said:

> > > > > @NotASmurf.1725 said:

> > > > > > @messiah.1908 said:

> > > > > > > @ThatNAESLGuard.6238 said:

> > > > > > > There should never be an amulet with condi damage and 2 defensive stats. Ever.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > why not , you have power with defensive states and condi is also a mean to do dmg.

> > > > >

> > > > > Because condi only really needs 1 stat to do damage and all the defensive stuff is free while power has to sacrifice damage for defensive stats.

> > > >

> > > > ok so why engi and ranger and ele take mender.

> > > > curses necro needs precision .

> > > > condition dmg need condition duration also....

> > > >

> > > > you want to say condition need 1 state to do ok dmg while power need 3 state to do huge dmg....

> > >

> > > Did you really just ask that? Engi ranger and ele take mender because mender has more healing power than any condition amulet and their kit for bunkering doesn't have much condition damage (druid staff is power, scrapper hammer is power, d/f is mostly power), so if you want to bunker AND do some damage then mender it is. Most of these examples you bring up either are wrong or only apply because anet doesn't allow the optimal amulets for the specs.

> >

> > so you agree they take power to do dmg while having healing power. so what is wrong with condition and healing power..... ?!!!! if i want to bunker and do condition dmg why is it wrong? if you saying no bunker should have any dmg at all no power or condition this is different story

>

> Because to do proper power damage you need power precision ferocity but to do similar if not better damage you only need condi damage stat.

>

> Dedicated bunkers aren't the problem those always ran power amulets anyways, It's the duels. Toughness/condition damage/healing power should be able to beat any power build 1v1 on point because eventually you'll run out of cleanses and lose while the condi tank will still be fine.

 

Thank you for being an intelligent human being. It's nice to see someone who actually gets the concept of balance.

[Vaeo.4097]

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> Name TBD

> • Power: 1050, Condition Damage: 1050, Vitality: 560, Precision: 560

 

These variant looks good for mirage. I suppose, it will allow us to make sustain build and skip Illusions trait line. It's quite boring that all builds relies on spiking enemies with shatter.

I also think about more power oriented variant of amulet:

_Power: 1050, Precision: 1050, Vitality: 560, Condition Damage: 560_

Possibly it will be worse than yours amulet suggestion, but it provides power build still utilizing heavy confusion application from Mirage and Dueling traitlines. While third specialization could be anything -- not only Illusions.