ZDragon.3046 Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 > @"Deihnyx.6318" said: > I'm glad these people never attempted to get legendary armors. That's some real timegate for you. > This... is nothing. I'm sorry. > > Not everything has to be readily available. Mount = item for mobility and fun movement Legendary armor = items that can be used to change your play style at any time with free stat swap and make the player super shiny One is not equally weighted to the other obviously Also at no point has anet labeled this mount as a Legendary (correct me if im wrong) thus one should not be comparing it to legendary items to make the idea of it ok. Any time the term legendary is used in this game its clear cut to any player right out the gate that its going to require a lot of time to obtain it there is no real shock factor in that regard. To time gate a mount like this has induced a big shock to many players because its not been done before with any of the other mounts and it was done with this one for what really is no good reason. I thought i would quit wvw completely when i got the warclaw but i play it more now than I ever have i still dont main it and i dont wvw every day but I will jump into it if im bored its become an alternative option for me away from spvp because of the warclaw. One should not assume just because a player obtains a sky scale quickly that the new map would die. There really is NO REAL reason that this was gated like this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > @"Deihnyx.6318" said: > > I'm glad these people never attempted to get legendary armors. That's some real timegate for you. > > This... is nothing. I'm sorry. > > > > Not everything has to be readily available. > One should not assume just because a player obtains a sky scale quickly that the new map would die. There really is NO REAL reason that this was gated like this Then it's not a problem that it's time scaled in the first place ... if people keep coming back to play the map, the fact it's timescaled is irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 > @"Dondarrion.2748" said: > "Actual probelm" > > It's a game for crying out loud, you'll get your mount over the course of seven days, why this incessant moaning over things taking time, for whatever reason Anet decided. > > Maybe this way more people will get the Skyscale at the same time, not just the hardcore who nolifed the new patch for 72 hours non stop at launch.. it would certainly cater to casuals and letting them also get something new more or less "first" too for once. Thats what zergs and trains are for do you know how often i see commanders and mentors helping casual players unlock mounts and obtain new masteries. PRETTY OFTEN but you know what stops that process a needless 24 hour time gate. Its going to make it a lot harder for people who don't wiz through it in the first 3-5 days to get help with getting it as they could be on a different step from the commander or other players trying to help them. Overall this was needless yes we will still get the mount but the point of this is that it was literally needless and more of an annoyance than a "good thing" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminal.5093 Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 Skyscale is not optional, if you want to earn xp and spirit shards in pof maps you are now forced to grind this out and not only in participate in 30+ events for 0xp to unlock vendors for collection items and go through the story (skipping and spoiling whatever you haven't done yet) and accept multiple large xp bonuses as 0, but also wait multiple days before you can go back to playing the game how you want to play, doing pof metas, getting xp and spirit shards... alternatively you can go back to hot or central tyria and still get xp and shards and not engage in the new content at all, to avoid being punished... or just ignore it and never get xp and shards in pof again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico.6873 Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 The thing is, we now have to wait 5 days or longer to be able to use the mount in other maps. I myself was hoping to test and try the new mount in Droconis mon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absconditus.6804 Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 > @"Dondarrion.2748" said: > "Actual probelm" > > It's a game for crying out loud, you'll get your mount over the course of seven days, why this incessant moaning over things taking time, for whatever reason Anet decided. > > Maybe this way more people will get the Skyscale at the same time, not just the hardcore who nolifed the new patch for 72 hours non stop at launch.. it would certainly cater to casuals and letting them also get something new more or less "first" too for once. The flaw in that proposition is that a casual player won't be able to complete a collection stage in a single day before the daily reset. There's just way too much to the just the first stage for that. If we're talking true casuals anyways. They are not going to be first at all, they are going to be slowed down even further as they miss one day, then got to wait yet another day. Instead of continuing the collection on day 2, they are now on day 3, since they finished the first stage on day 2, or they are on day 4 because they finished it on day 3, etc. It's not helping a casual player the slightest, and who cares if someone "nolifed" to get the mount day one. ArenaNet is probably trying to keep the map populated, or rather to keep players around to try sell them items in the Gem Store, but frustrated and annoyed consumers are far less likely to make a purchase than happy ones. And this timegate hits everyone, even those that are staying around for more than a few days after an update goes live and having cleared it. With this timegate they're frustrating those that would potentially be willing to open their wallets anyways. You have to be pretty stupid business-wise to get on the bad side of your loyal consumers just to try to target leads and sell them your product with a marketing ploy. This is just bad marketing. It's bad game design. I can't think of a valid pro-consumer reason for the timegate. If you have one, by all means, share it. I'd love for ArenaNet to share the pro-consumer reason for it. Their thought process behind its implementation. If they already did, I've missed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrimm.5624 Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 > @"Stalkingwolf.6035" said: > > @"TheGrimm.5624" said: > > > @"Stalkingwolf.6035" said: > > > > @"TheGrimm.5624" said: > > > > Try ESO crafting, 5 days is nothing, why are we talking about this? Haven't even started that yet but that's not a concern. > > > > > > who cares what ESO is doing?! Whataboutism doesnt help in any discussion > > > > It actually does. It puts things in perspective. If you are concerned about 5 days in an MMO you might want to reconsider playing MMOs and going back to other types of games. > > no it does not. All what you are saying. this is not bad, because in the other game is it worse. that doesnt make it in this game good. > srsly whataboutism doesnt help. Where here not in ESO, Black Desert or Tera. This is gw2. > and btw i have Aurora, Golem Backpack. But thats not even close the same. So I will go to a GW2 reference than. It took 2000 WvW levels and a year to get my first 6 pieces of Mistforged Triumphant Hero armor made. I am sorry but the 5 days for a mount, IMO 5 doesn't seem that much time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BolkovonHarnfeldt.1372 Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 I don't really think the time gating is the problem. The problem is whether you like doing these collections or not. If you don't like to do them, then rushing through them with a youtube guide seems pointless busywork and the time gating adds insult to injury. If you like doing collections and resort to guides only after you spend a long time searching for yourself, you'll find that the time gate is a very soft gate indeed, since it takes quite a lot of time doing even the 1st day collection - odds are that you'll need to take a break after it anyway in order not to burn out. As someone who falls into the latter camp, my complaint about these treasure hunts is that quite often the hints could be better. It's a thin line between having fun looking for stuff and eventually finding it and the frustration that sets in if you keep looking and looking without success because the only hint is "somewhere in region x". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deihnyx.6318 Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > @"Deihnyx.6318" said: > > I'm glad these people never attempted to get legendary armors. That's some real timegate for you. > > This... is nothing. I'm sorry. > > > > Not everything has to be readily available. > > Mount = item for mobility and fun movement > Legendary armor = items that can be used to change your play style at any time with free stat swap and make the player super shiny > One is not equally weighted to the other obviously > > Also at no point has anet labeled this mount as a Legendary (correct me if im wrong) thus one should not be comparing it to legendary items to make the idea of it ok. > Any time the term legendary is used in this game its clear cut to any player right out the gate that its going to require a lot of time to obtain it there is no real shock factor in that regard. > > To time gate a mount like this has induced a big shock to many players because its not been done before with any of the other mounts and it was done with this one for what really is no good reason. > > I thought i would quit wvw completely when i got the warclaw but i play it more now than I ever have i still dont main it and i dont wvw every day but I will jump into it if im bored its become an alternative option for me away from spvp because of the warclaw. > > One should not assume just because a player obtains a sky scale quickly that the new map would die. There really is NO REAL reason that this was gated like this I missed the part of the argument where legendary has anything to do whether or not it should be timegated. Care to explain? If anything, legendary armor content is already "gated" by the fact that it's hard content, it doesn't need a second gate. And if there ever was to be a "legendary mount", even just a skin, I am 100% convinced people would complain about not being able to access it right away. A lot of AAA companies know that all too well, hence all the lootboxes we're getting :) Modern gaming is all about instant gratification. The warclaw has a timegate too: 8 hours. Bit less with boosters. 8 hours isn't 5 days. But it's all subjective. To me, a month having to do a repetitive thing every single day is too much, 5 days is nothing. To you, 5 days is too much, 8 hours is nothing. Content should always be gated to be somewhat rewarding. Either through gold/currency, difficulty or time. Timegate is by far my least favorite, but if you're not gonna have that, you need to make the mount either expensive, or gated through difficult content, otherwise it's just like the beetle and won't matter within days of release. Which one do you prefer? Yet another gold sink? We have so many of them already and the gryphon covers that. A gold sink is also a huge time sink, so pick your poison :) Personally I would go with "finish the last boss in hard mode" for the sweet reward, but such an outrageous requirement is no longer allowed in 2019. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Red Arachnid.2493 Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 Something I find odd is that this map introduced limitless trader keys, effectively removing the time gate on them. So, we get infinite keys now, but we have to wait for the mount... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminal.5093 Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 > @"TheGrimm.5624" said: > So I will go to a GW2 reference than. It took 2000 WvW levels and a year to get my first 6 pieces of Mistforged Triumphant Hero armor made. I am sorry but the 5 days for a mount, IMO 5 doesn't seem that much time. but that's a purely cosmetic thing, you can get the functionally same item without the 2000 wvw ranks. Triumphant Hero's armor. A long grind for a cosmetic is not the same as what's happening here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cekay.2614 Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 I dont like the timegate either. Imagine you come home from work around 8pm, at around 10pm your kids are asleep and you have time for yourself. Now you start playing Gw2 but if you want to get that new mount in 5 days, you have to finish a multiple-fetchquest-busywork-achievments in 2 hours before the reset kicks in. Otherwise the time it will take you to get it is now 5 days +1. You can't do anything else in the game that you might enjoy, be it farming materials, fractals, pvp, whatever. You simply do not have enough time in 2 hours if you want to get that mount asap. Not unless you are fine with yet another day tomorrow where you have to finish the previous collection in 2 hours to even get the chance to work on the next achievment the next evening. (and if you are unable to finish the achievment in 2 hours, it is yet another day added (5 days +2)). or if you simply dont care about the mount at all. You get what i'm saying? People that can only play late in the evening or at night are just out of luck with this system. There is no way they can rush an achievment in 2 hours or less if they want to get that mount and actually use it on the new map. This is the first mount that put a complete and absolute fullstop brickwall halt on all progress in your face... You cant even farm exp to unlock every mastery at once once you finally get the mount. You get the masterys unlocked AFTER you get the mount. The time where it takes a full day to unlock the next achievment you can absolutly do NOTHING for the new mount. Timegated materials are different. You can still farm the raw materials if you already hit your limit for the day. With the griffin you could farm gold or do anything else really, every coin you got could be used to buy the griffin. With this mount you cant do anything at all. This might not be that much of a problem for people who can play in the afternoon or evening. they have enough time to finish it before the reset kicks in. they could potentially even do other stuff if they were fast enough. Just remove the time gate completely. People that dont want to rush it can still do whatever else they want. People that really want it and only play in the late evening/night can do so at their own pace, without being forced to finish as much as possbile before reset. Also they are not forced to completely stop everything regarding the new mount for the next day when they finish it half an hour too late... greetings PS: If you find mistakes in my text you can keep them, english is not my native language. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiviana.2650 Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 > @"Aridon.8362" said: > This is by far the most useless mount too, you need a lot of work to keep it flying. The point of all mounts in anything period is to go faster not slower. Thats not the point of gw2 mounts really, the point of the mounts is to have different abilities that allow you to traverse areas you otherwise wouldnt be able to reach/cross. Come from wow where mounts are what you describe merely a means to get around faster with no ability to do anything else , GW2 mounts are actually better. They have a purpose and a job to do that is what makes them amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daishi.6027 Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 > @"ewenness.6482" said: > > @"Rukario.1695" said: > > > @"ewenness.6482" said: > > > > @"Daishi.6027" said: > > > >I took the day off tomorrow expecting to play with the new toy and my initial investment and hype for the release, but now I learn that not only is my investment for this release being met with a spit in the face, but now I am locked behind anyone who happened to finish it before reset. > > > > > > Having to contend with delayed gratification. = Getting spit in the face. > > > > > > Some world we live in. > > > > Yes, completely ignore the reason for his comment and only reply with your one-liner after misconstruing his reason for being upset. > > > > **Some world we live in.** > > When someone exaggerates to that extent, any point they may have had gets lost in the drama llama style presentation. > > Arenanet taking longer than usual or expected with this episode and then time-gating one of the biggest selling points of it can be classed as an unwise decision or a financial mistake. We can argue that the disappointment caused by the time-gate makes people less inclined to purchase gems but we can also argue that this could be offset by the people who are not deterred and may make additional purchases due to the game nudging them to play more frequently and in the process look at the gem store offerings. There is a discussion to be had here. > > What it can not be classed as is "a spit in the face" because that undermines both the point the poster was trying to make and reduces the work put into this episode, from the gameplay and writing to the visuals and music, to an act of spite. Writing that doesn't open a discussion and doesn't work as criticism either. It's the written equivalent of a tantrum. > > Also, don't take time off from work for online games. It never ends well. Never been a problem before for GW2 or any other game I’ve done it for, so I don’t know how you come to the conclusion “it never ends well.” This is the first time being dissatisfied. But at the end of the day, here I am with no (progressing based) reason to log in until reset because the game literally stops me from progressing towards something that actually holds value to my account. I currently do not care about the map and will likely not “thoroughly enjoy it” until **after** I have the mount, the story was fine but I’m not going to replay it over and over till reset. The mount was the biggest draw and the entire reason why I and many others were invested in this release. Maybe “spit in the face” sounds strong, but regardless, as a costumer I don’t feel like I or my time was respected. Where “disrespect” is the entire basis for that “figure of speech”. Maybe you think someone shouldn’t feel disrespected, but not everyone’s situations is the same, and among other reasons mentioned above, the release that everyone expected was set, and advertised for yesterday. This betrayal of expectations was enough for me, and I’m sure I’m not alone. I don’t think a little bit of anger is unjustified. Also idk about you, but some of us have to book our time off well enough in advance making that whole “I have no reason to log in” feel even worse. For over a decade I would take time off for game release, or MMO patches, and again this is the first time being let down in such a way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahou.3924 Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 > @"TheGrimm.5624" said: > > @"Stalkingwolf.6035" said: > > > @"TheGrimm.5624" said: > > > > @"Stalkingwolf.6035" said: > > > > > @"TheGrimm.5624" said: > > > > > Try ESO crafting, 5 days is nothing, why are we talking about this? Haven't even started that yet but that's not a concern. > > > > > > > > who cares what ESO is doing?! Whataboutism doesnt help in any discussion > > > > > > It actually does. It puts things in perspective. If you are concerned about 5 days in an MMO you might want to reconsider playing MMOs and going back to other types of games. > > > > no it does not. All what you are saying. this is not bad, because in the other game is it worse. that doesnt make it in this game good. > > srsly whataboutism doesnt help. Where here not in ESO, Black Desert or Tera. This is gw2. > > and btw i have Aurora, Golem Backpack. But thats not even close the same. > > So I will go to a GW2 reference than. It took 2000 WvW levels and a year to get my first 6 pieces of Mistforged Triumphant Hero armor made. I am sorry but the 5 days for a mount, IMO 5 doesn't seem that much time. Armor =!= Mount. They serve quite oviously different purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrimm.5624 Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 > @"Terminal.5093" said: > > @"TheGrimm.5624" said: > > So I will go to a GW2 reference than. It took 2000 WvW levels and a year to get my first 6 pieces of Mistforged Triumphant Hero armor made. I am sorry but the 5 days for a mount, IMO 5 doesn't seem that much time. > > but that's a purely cosmetic thing, you can get the functionally same item without the 2000 wvw ranks. Triumphant Hero's armor. > > A long grind for a cosmetic is not the same as what's happening here. Its more than cosmetic, I may need to change my build to support my havoc composition or to counter the other side roamers. While not in spawn. Agree the Mistforged and the Triumphant is the same outside of look, but that is still a much longer period than the stated 5 day lead time that the mount will take. But lets go with it for a second, so why is that much time ok for a cosmetic versus a mere 5 days for something being implied as needed? Found I don't like to rush new content and paying bills requires non-gaming time so maybe I am missing something. Is the mount blocking story completion? As I said not done yet but hadn't seemed to thru the part I did so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RizelStar.3724 Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 I believe that during the stream they didn’t tell people about the collection because they knew the feedback wouldn’t be good. Then it’s like “Why would you go ahead with that anyways?” Cause I got to keep repeating this like it is circling the map for collections, the time gate till this point has served nothing [positive]. It did more harm than good, for those who don’t care good for you but to those reaching and claiming “It’s fine” when you know in hindsight it isn’t only to be contrary to what people are saying, is wrong and y’all know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 > @"Deihnyx.6318" said: > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > @"Deihnyx.6318" said: > > > I'm glad these people never attempted to get legendary armors. That's some real timegate for you. > > > This... is nothing. I'm sorry. > > > > > > Not everything has to be readily available. > > > > Mount = item for mobility and fun movement > > Legendary armor = items that can be used to change your play style at any time with free stat swap and make the player super shiny > > One is not equally weighted to the other obviously > > > > Also at no point has anet labeled this mount as a Legendary (correct me if im wrong) thus one should not be comparing it to legendary items to make the idea of it ok. > > Any time the term legendary is used in this game its clear cut to any player right out the gate that its going to require a lot of time to obtain it there is no real shock factor in that regard. > > > > To time gate a mount like this has induced a big shock to many players because its not been done before with any of the other mounts and it was done with this one for what really is no good reason. > > > > I thought i would quit wvw completely when i got the warclaw but i play it more now than I ever have i still dont main it and i dont wvw every day but I will jump into it if im bored its become an alternative option for me away from spvp because of the warclaw. > > > > One should not assume just because a player obtains a sky scale quickly that the new map would die. There really is NO REAL reason that this was gated like this > > I missed the part of the argument where legendary has anything to do whether or not it should be timegated. Care to explain? Sure its not a legnedary dont treat it like such unless some one from anet can confirm it is one > If anything, legendary armor content is already "gated" by the fact that it's hard content, it doesn't need a second gate. I never said it did i dont think you are understanding me correctly. I was simply point out an example of "What if" and its clear that by you saying its hard content so it does not need a second gate means you dont approve of it. I said that its well understood that when the word "Legendary" i used in terms of items quality in gw2 that there is an understanding that its going to take significant time to obtain. There is no shock factor because its been the standard for such a long time people know what they are getting to from the start. When anet says new mount not once have they ver locked people out for them for several days its a "Big!" shock factor that players are not use to myself included and i play daily. I expect any legendary item to take months of work its been the standard from the start but mounts have NEVER been that way. The one mount that should have been that way was griffon and it was not even gated through a method in which the player had 0 control over how fast the could complete it. > And if there ever was to be a "legendary mount", even just a skin, I am 100% convinced people would complain about not being able to access it right away. A lot of AAA companies know that all too well, hence all the lootboxes we're getting :) Modern gaming is all about instant gratification. Yeah it is and loot boxes have been a thing forever lets not even try to bring that into this cause thats an entire different discussion. > The warclaw has a timegate too: 8 hours. Bit less with boosters. 2.5...ish (at least when it came to the reward track) I had all the other task done by the time that got finished so.... not sure what took you 8 hours literally came home the day of release jumped into wvw with a friend it took me about 2.5 hours and took him about 3 hours to completely unlock the base mount neither one of us were were wvw mains. We literally just played listened to commanders it and took one task at a time with other players. Granted at the time anet was running the free 100% bonus you could stack with your boosters.. if it took you 8 hours you were doing things a bit on the slow side i have to say or you tried to obtain it after the event ended. > 8 hours isn't 5 days. But it's all subjective. To me, a month having to do a repetitive thing every single day is too much, 5 days is nothing. To you, 5 days is too much, 8 hours is nothing. Once again it didnt take me 8 hours i got it the day it released. Got the roller the day after it released (only because the map instance to continue the story was bugged for a full day other wise would have gotten it in one day too) I got it the next day with about 2-3 hours worth of collection work most of that time was waiting on the bigger key world bosses to spawn such as mark II golem etc. If you lined the timing up right with the world bosses that you needed to complete the collection you could do it in a day. > > Content should always be gated to be somewhat rewarding. Either through gold/currency, difficulty or time. Once again im not arguing that content should not be gated. Im arguing that the gates should be flexible within reason. IF a player wishes to work hard to obtain something a bit faster although it still might not be instant that should be a thing. Its been a thing with every mount up to this point even Griffion which was the secret mount was not this gated and with some help from friendly players i managed to get it in a single day. > Timegate is by far my least favorite, but if you're not gonna have that, you need to make the mount either expensive, or gated through difficult content, otherwise it's just like the beetle and won't matter within days of release. Which one do you prefer? Yet another gold sink? We have so many of them already and the gryphon covers that. A gold sink is also a huge time sink, so pick your poison :) I would gladly pay my own hard earned gold to unlock the mount over waiting 5 days as i have control over working to earn and or save gold and spend it on what i choose as my reward but i dont have control over waiting 24 hours in which progress cannot be made at all. You simply have to wait which is frustrating... as the main feature i was really looking forward too the most its very upsetting to know wont be getting the thing i wanted most from the update for several more days. Yes I prefer a gold sink because gold can be gained reasonably fast depending on how much gold you are talking if the mount cost 300-500 gold to complete for example but I didnt have to wait 5 days would i do it.. Darn right I would. I worked for that gold. It is my reward to spend it as i see fit. > Personally I would go with "finish the last boss in hard mode" for the sweet reward, but such an outrageous requirement is no longer allowed in 2019. I would even prefer this over over wait 5 days as I have the option to improve and work at beating said boss or bring friends to help me who are also unlocking the mount for an epic fight to remember or even help other players with it (that last fight is fun imo) My whole argument is that this method was by far the worst choice of options that could have been made to gate the mount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoSundown.5419 Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"tekhiun.8653" said: > > > > All they managed to with this cheap design was make me want to play another game tbf. > > And you are going to pay somehow in that game too. Don't fool yourself into thinking GW2 is some exception to MMO design fundamentals. At one point, ANet thought differently. From: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/is-it-fun-colin-johanson-on-how-arenanet-measures-success/ "The answer can be found in the mechanics and choices made in subscription-based MMOs, which keep customers actively playing by chasing something in the game through processes that take as long as possible. In other words, they design content systems that take more time to keep people playing longer. If this is your business motivation and model so you keep getting paid, it makes sense and is an incredibly smart thing to do, and you need to support it.' "When your game systems are derived and designed to fill this prime motivation of a subscription-based MMO, you potentially sacrifice quality to get as much content in as possible to fill that time. You get leveling systems that take insane amounts of grind to gain a level, loot drop systems that require doing a dungeon with a tiny chance the item you want can drop at the end, raid systems that need huge numbers of people online simultaneously to organize and play, thousands of wash/repeat item-collection or kill-mob quests or dailies with flavor text support, the best stat gear requiring crazy amounts of time to earn, etc.' "But what if your business model isn’t one based on a subscription, and your content-design motivations aren’t driven by creating mechanics to keep people playing as long as possible? When looking at content design for Guild Wars 2, we’ve tried to ask the question: What if the development of the game was based on…wait for it…fun?' "If we chose fun as our main metric for tracking success, can we flip the core paradigm and make design decisions based on what we’d like to play as game players? Can we focus our time on making meaningful and impactful content, rather than filler content to draw out the experience? Can we make something so much fun you might want to play it multiple times because it’s fun, rather than making you do it because the game says you have to? It’s how we played games while growing up. I can’t tell you how many times I played Quest for Glory; the game didn’t give me 25 daily quests I needed to log in and do, I played it multiple times because it was fun!' "So if your key metric for success of your game is fun, how do you make content that fits that goal, and how do you know if you’re succeeding? It’s easy to tell if a subscription-based game is hitting its metric of success, you simply look at the number of subscriptions; fun is much harder to define. To accomplish this, we’ve had to fundamentally redefine our development process of content in GW2 around this concept of fun, and it starts with asking a very simple question that surprisingly isn’t asked that often in game development: “Are you having fun?” Such lofty aspirations, ending in the implementation of time-gates and press F collections. Pity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absconditus.6804 Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 I'm realizing now that all this has done for me is to have me log in, do the collection quests, log out. I don't interact with other players, I don't partake in events I don't need. I don't revive players I see downed. I just rushed around the map, then logged out the moment the timegate hit me. This is an absolute first for me after a new content update, ever since the release of the game. I always have fun and want to play for hours upon hours for the next weeks to months. The excitement for the new mount has died already, I guess I associate it with frustration. Doesn't help it's awkward to control and it clings to everything even though you don't want it to (though I expect the Mastery tweaks to help with that). I'm just going to do it to do it at this point. Getting it to get it. It's day 2 and I am in a burned out state in regards to GW2. Don't feel like playing the rest of the day, because what I want to do is timegated. Doesn't help the first collection basically sends you to the same locations repeatedly. Collect these scales. Administer medicine to sick Skyscales in practically the same locations. Oh, pick up eggs in the same locations that weren't there before too. That gets a bit repetitive, might be why I'm burning out already as well, more-so with the feeling of having to do the merry-go-round fetch quest all in one day to not get delayed even further by this terribly stupid timegate system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roquen.5406 Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 I think those arguing that this is fine are missing the point. If you have to time-gate content in this manner to keep people "playing" for an additional 5 days then there is something wrong with your game. If your game is fun to play then people will continue to play BEFORE and AFTER said content. Making people wait an arbitrary amount of days just because does not make sense in any way. In fact this time-gating does not make people want to play. It makes them log in to finish, then log out, until they can do the next step and for many that leaves a sour taste in their mouth. This is the same problem I have with certain reward systems in general. If two players want to put in 50 hours to get the new mount and one wants to rush through it in the first 2-3 days and the other wants to do it over 6 weeks, then let them. Why would you punish the one that wants to get through it quickly? Let them enjoy the game how THEY want. That was part of the original manifesto, so.../shrug It is also why I think the WvW rewards were horribly implemented. Although in this case it rewards the player for the opposite reason. With the current design if you take the same two players from above in regards to the Legendary back-piece, it looks like this: Player 1: Puts in 20 hours a week and as such they earn the max amount of tickets per week. After 10 weeks they have made significant progress on the back-piece, most likely have enough tickets to finish most of it. Player 2: Puts in 4 hours a week over the course of a year. However, because of the way the reward track resets weekly, they may only have a fraction of the tickets to make the back-piece. In this example both players put 200 hours in but the one that can/wants to commit to WvW as a part-time job - 20 hours a week, gets rewarded for their time. Whereas the other that did this over a year does not. It is a system that never made sense to me and I do not understand why someone should be punished for not being able to treat the game as a part-time job. You can disagree with me - but I just do not get it. You should not punish the players that want to enjoy your game in the way they see fit (obviously not talking about condoning cheating/glitching/etc.) but in general terms. This goes back to the mount. This is the same issue that came up with HoT and how they locked Elite Specs behind over 400 Skill Points. This meant that by the time players had enough to complete the trees, they would have already finished the new content. It also forced them to go back and do old content, which many may not have liked. There was so much backlash that they eventually reverted it. The point here is that people want to enjoy the content with the new additions. Back then it was to play through HoT WITH the new elite specs and not unlocking them AFTER playing through HoT. In this case it pertains to the mount/masteries. I also think it is a case of transparency. If Anet had said, "Hey you can use the mounts but you will not be able to own them until you complete the achievements - which are time-gated." Then people would have at least known what to expect. Obviously nothing is perfect and someone will always complain but there are always ways to do things better. Just my two cents... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bast.7253 Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 > @"eldrin.6471" said: > Just more of the same kitten from anet.wont be long till they realise the error of there ways.people who cant /wont do collection cant buy new skins for skyscale mount.bit dumb if you ask me. That’s another thing I don’t get. I still have people in my guilds that play every day, but don’t have the griffin or beetle because they’re locked behind collections. So, on one hand, I get having to work for the mount, but on the other, these people are definitely not going to buy mount skins for a mount they don’t even have. The collections intimidate some people anyway. But now we have a timegate on large collections that are not only alienating the people that just don’t want to do the collections, but the people that don’t mind putting in the effort and time but can’t without waiting for daily resets. Having both a large multi series collection AND a timegate is just pointless. Pick one or the other... Why create something that can lead to massive gem store sells and then design it in a way that will deter a lot of people from having any reason to spend? I just don’t get it. It’s not a good idea, and I hope they learn that from this moving forward for future mounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MokahTGS.7850 Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Richard Marcinko.5132" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > @"Klowdy.3126" said: > > > > > > > TLDR: it's a problem because people have no patience. > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe you should read the email that anet sent out saying that you should come play and get your "SKYSCALE TODAY" > > > > > > its a problem because people dont like bing lied too and bamboozled > > > > > > > > > > LOL ... yeah OMG ... they are FOOLING people into playing a game they have been playing for years to come experience new content. tragic. > > > > > > > > i guess you missed the whole part where you cant do the following statement lol > > > > > > No, i didn't miss it ... I'm just realistic because I play GW2 for more than one day ... therefore it's not a big deal that it takes more than a day to get it. I'm not offended by some minor oversight because I play the game anyways and eventually I will get the mount /shrug > > > > That's great for you that apparently has nothing to do all day but play GW2, some of us have jobs and families and RL so we are unable to sit and play for hours on end, which means I MIGHT be able to get it by Christmas but I'm not holding my breath. > > I have a job and family, etc ... that's why time gating doesn't bother me ... because I know I will be playing over a series of days. Time gating doesn't bother people like us. So do I and I completely disagree with you. Please do not try to speak for everyone with your opinion. Your experience does not equate to my experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 > @"Rain.7543" said: > > @"MokahTGS.7850" said: > > The OP doesn't understand that there are a lot of people that can only carve out 1 to 2 hours every day. If that block of time doesn't allow you to finish a collection before the reset then you are out of luck for the day. This can easily turn a minimum 5 day time gate into much longer than intended. It artificially punishes people that have shorter play times. This is simply bad design. > > > > For example, this time gate might actually stop my wife from playing the game due to an artificially introduced mechanic. It is frustrating, and enough to cause people to stop playing entirely. Pretty sure that was not ANet's intent. > if getting a mount for say 10 days, instead of 5 is enough to make people stop playing the game, then they are playing the wrong game. I've been long enough around different MMO's ingame communities and forums to say that people usually just want the new shiny thing asap. Atleast many do. That's why we have people burning through content in a day and then they start complaining again they have nothing to do and work towards. > > That's why nowadays we have issues of intense development crunch times in a number of games, where the developers are put through insane 100 hours a week work times so they can produce content faster and it's still not enough. Gamers still burn through it all in over a day or a week. > > If Anet made the collections possible to complete in a day, people would complain that they have nothing new to work towads, just like people now complain about the time gate. However the design for the collections were made, some people would be happy and other not. Anet decided to go with that design, so you can either accept it or not, but realisticly i don't see them changing it, as this would be no easy task i am sure. To be fair and im not trying to shame anet... They had more than enough resources to push this game far beyond what its at right now, and they were not using those resources to do that.. Its clear to me with the updates ive seen in the past few months that this game could have easily had much more to offer players between living world updates. Ever since the lay offs have you noticed anything... perhaps all the extra little events that happening been the previous and the current episode. When was the last time we had unique events between major living world updates that were not halloween, wintersday, and SAB. Could it be that now more resources are being pooled into gw2? Could it be that if this type of action had been going on for the past 2 years that we could have been looking at another x pack instead of going into season 5.. possibly but who knows. The time between HoT and PoF shocked me really I dont think anyone expected the PoF x pack at all. It hit far sooner than anyone thought it would and people loved PoF I know I did. While its maps metas were not up to par with say the HoT metas the content and story were well done. There was plenty to do and the living world started up rather rapidly after PoF it was not until after that first episode or 2 that things started to really slow down where we got long gaps of just nothing... i was there playing them... we would get an episode and then 4-5 months of nothing not even mini events outside of the standard halloween winters day and SAB. So before you try to play the "Players burn through content to fast card" Ask your self do you think that anet could have possibly provided us with more content via events or other methods as they have been doing more recently, In the past 2-3 months ive seen more none standard mini player events than I can recall in the past year out of the standard ones i listed above. WvW no down state, Mist rift event, World Boss rush, and they have already announced even more events to come in the future and that more are under planning.... so think really hard before you try to write off the "Gamers burn though it all in a day or week" card, Sometimes more can be done and while living world has never lasted long except in the days of scarlet those were some of the best living world updates gw2 ever had in its history imo, but that method of updates is no longer a thing. Because players who dont play that content in the moment miss out on it completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashantara.8731 Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 > @"Aridon.8362" said: > This is by far the most useless mount too, you need a lot of work to keep it flying. It becomes better once you've leveled the Masteries, I hope. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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