Should the Skyscale map currency be reduced?

[yann.1946]

> @"eldrin.6471" said:

> I have not played guild wars 2 in over a week since getting to sky scale saddle ,so got up this morning and thought i would give it another try. Loged in went to sand swept isle and done a heart and got 0 Difluorite Crystal. and loged out. anet could you please just close my account.

 

You have to buy the crystals for karma tho

[yann.1946]

> @"SmirkDog.3160" said:

> > @"Rasimir.6239" said:

> > Simplistic and lazy by your standards doesn't make it bad game design. It's an extensive quest involvinge a large variety of gameplay, including **hide-and-seek/scavenger hunt content, random drops, resource investment, minigames and more.**

> >

> > If you don't want to play the game but only to get the rewards that's what I'd call simplistic and lazy. The quest for the skyscale is a lot of things, but simplistic and lazy definitely not.

>

> You're fighting against an argument I'm not making. My problem is the saddle collection, not the hide-and-seek, random drops, etc.

>

> So let me make this extra clear for you, in bolded text: **The saddle collection is bad and lazy, separate apart from the rest of the collections that I've stated are good, and have actually used as part of my argument of why the saddle collection is bad by comparison. Saying to just get 250 of each map currency is lazy and unimaginative compared to the rest of the collections required to get the Skyscale. Read all of what I said or don't both arguing with me.**

 

Can you tell me then what the acceptable amount of currency is to ask and why?

[Derdzvero.7051]

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

 

> Or just ...

 

> Your problem is:

 

I know what and how to spare myself a brain-dead time wasting, that is not the problem. The problem is the trend - next patch we won't have that convenience at our disposal since it won't be "how it's meant to be played".

 

And please restrain from telling others what problems do they have. As Marjory was saying: "Language, please!"

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Derdzvero.7051" said:

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

>

> > Or just ...

>

> > Your problem is:

>

> I know what and how to spare myself a brain-dead time wasting, that is not the problem. The problem is the trend - next patch we won't have that convenience at our disposal since it won't be "how it's meant to be played".

>

> And please restrain from telling others what problems do they have. As Marjory was saying: "Language, please!"

 

Be fair enough to either do an accurate summary of what I said when quoting me and shortening, or if time is short, just snip it. If you are concerned with proper etiquette and language that is.

 

I did not cut, shorten or change the meaning of your comment did I?

[Taygus.4571]

> @"Shabari.1504" said:

> I grumbled at first learning of the collection of the map currency, then think you are going to get your mount once you finished to find out you have to go for another collection of 28 different maps........

> But after learning the Skyscale is tied into the new Legendary Accessory it all made some sense for the grind of the mount. <3

 

No it doesnt. the ledgie is 100 tokens... and the mount 250 tokens. They couldve switch these whoch makes more sense

 

They could've added more quest/collection to the ledgie nd less to the mount. Just because it opens up a ledgie..doesnt mean the mount should have the same grind as one.

[SmirkDog.3160]

> @"Krzysztof.5973" said:

> Next LS is in 3-4 months and from crafting Aurora you should already expect by now that there may be something added to the game that requires LS4 currency with last episode being Dragonfall. You had 1,5 year to from release of first episode to start farming towards something. With such a big spaces of time between episodes there should be something to work on. It's not that much. You have content to play. They have more legendaries to introduce, and mounts. Get ready for the next time, you will be prepared on day 1.

 

It is very bold of you to assume that a) everyone crafted Aurora? and b) everyone has been playing LS4 since it came out and never stopped playing until now. People shouldn't have to drag themselves to play a game they may not feel like playing at the time just to be able to unlock something later. Also I literally couldn't advance through episode 3? I think? because there was a bug with one of the open-world quests that wouldn't spawn (which was a bug present for 6+ months) so I just quit until they were all out and just had to hope the bug was fixed.

 

If you miss out on stuff because you didn't play for a year, that's bad game design. Other MMOs I can go back to after not playing for a long time and just catch up easy without being screwed out of a mount or something because maps are empty. And that's why ANet is making us go back to the previous maps, because they can't keep people going there otherwise, which is, again, bad game design.

 

> @"yann.1946" said:

> Can you tell me then what the acceptable amount of currency is to ask and why?

 

No more than 100 because the time and effort spent should be reflected in what you earn, and I seriously doubt the Skyscale is worth 250 of 6 different map currencies (totaling 1,500). Maybe if it spit out gems or something. Making it a 'precursor' for a legendary trinket was stupid and put it out of reach of casual players or players who otherwise can't put in the time to get it. All the other mounts in the base expansion just required a renown heart and some gold, and the Springer can get more ups than the Skyscale can, the Raptor and Jackal are faster, etc.. It's a novelty item at best, and it's not worth that much grind.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

Only if the players who already paid get a refund for the difference.

[Derdzvero.7051]

250 of each is a NOGO with current droprate (apart from Istan). Within several weeks/a month max, the majority of players will reach that mobile-game-collection and then it will be the downfall of the game...point of no return is approaching.

[Krzysztof.5973]

> @"SmirkDog.3160" said:

> It is very bold of you to assume that a) everyone crafted Aurora?

I meant it's easy to google what was required for Aurora

> b) everyone has been playing LS4 since it came out and never stopped playing until now.

Wiki exists

> People shouldn't have to drag themselves to play a game they may not feel like playing at the time just to be able to unlock something later.

People shouldn't expect to get things for free just because they don't have time to play. And it doesn't take this long to do this

> If you miss out on stuff because you didn't play for a year, that's bad game design.

It's a bad game design to give stuff for free just because you didn't put time into something. Plus you didn't miss anything, you just wasn't ready to get it straight away. I swear to god this is the most bs excuse ever.

> Other MMOs I can go back to after not playing for a long time and just catch up easy without being screwed out of a mount or something because maps are empty. And that's why ANet is making us go back to the previous maps, because they can't keep people going there otherwise, which is, again, bad game design.

 

Dude what? LS4 maps are now populated with people trying to farm the currency. You did not miss out on anything. THANKS to Anet people are roaming those maps because of the mount/trinket.

 

Dear god, some people...

[Grimwolf.7163]

I don't know if I'll ever actually unlock the skyscale at this point. I got to the point where I need all the map currencies, and just burned out after finishing like two-and-a-half of them.

I started getting existential questions that had me doubting if I should even continue playing, because it was just so badly not worth the effort I was putting into it. I had to either walk away from the Skyscale, or walk away from the game all together.

I basically started down the rabbit hole of "This isn't even fun. Do I even want the skyscale that much? Is this really worth it? How much do I really care about anything in this game?"

I had to stop playing for a few days.

[SkyShroud.2865]

It isn't even about currency, the entire collectible is just tedious and some even gated behind events' timing. I am here to play, not to work.

[Witch of Doom.5739]

> @"Grimwolf.7163" said:

> I don't know if I'll ever actually unlock the skyscale at this point. I got to the point where I need all the map currencies, and just burned out after finishing like two-and-a-half of them.

> I started getting existential questions that had me doubting if I should even continue playing, because it was just so badly not worth the effort I was putting into it. I had to either walk away from the Skyscale, or walk away from the game all together.

> I basically started down the rabbit hole of "This isn't even fun. Do I even want the skyscale that much? Is this really worth it? How much do I really care about anything in this game?"

> I had to stop playing for a few days.

 

I was almost at that point. I originally decided to let it drag out and only buy the currencies from the VM vendor in Dragonfall because I found the map hearts etc. so boring and mind-numbingly grindy. Then I thought, no, it's bugging you every day, go ahead and dedicate however long it takes to getting the map currencies finished. Just did that. OMG, I never want to see any of those LW4 maps again. If I never see a "Tasteless Root" again it will be too soon. Now I'm doing the last (?) collection where you have to go to 28 -- 28!!! -- places and do the exact same thing. I "got it" after the first rift-hover, now to rinse and repeat 27 more times. This is what teachers call "busy work."

 

Do I have to have the Skyscale? Nope. Did I want it? Yep. Did I enjoy the process? No way in heck. It almost soured me on the game completely and I think this has been the most mishandled thing in all of Guild Wars, and I've played GW2 since beta and GW since release day.

[Astrolicus.3716]

I unblocked Skyscale yesterday. I can honestly say that this collection was a pain, too long, I seriously just don't understand who thought it was a good idea.

[BrotherBelial.3094]

Who whole thing should be made fun. Collections inside collections, that's just a poor attempt of a fetch quest is not fun at all.

 

Now the Calabrog quest was fun. It was the right length, and I had fun doing it. So far all the mount collections have just felt like work rather than fun. I'm on the elemental eggs. I did 5 on the bounce, and now I'm board of doing them. The collections are just not fun or engaging. It's a check list, it's not really content, it's a job list.

[SmirkDog.3160]

> @"Krzysztof.5973" said:

> > @"SmirkDog.3160" said:

> > It is very bold of you to assume that a) everyone crafted Aurora?

> I meant it's easy to google what was required for Aurora

> > b) everyone has been playing LS4 since it came out and never stopped playing until now.

> Wiki exists

> > People shouldn't have to drag themselves to play a game they may not feel like playing at the time just to be able to unlock something later.

> People shouldn't expect to get things for free just because they don't have time to play. And it doesn't take this long to do this

> > If you miss out on stuff because you didn't play for a year, that's bad game design.

> It's a bad game design to give stuff for free just because you didn't put time into something. Plus you didn't miss anything, you just wasn't ready to get it straight away. I swear to god this is the most bs excuse ever.

> > Other MMOs I can go back to after not playing for a long time and just catch up easy without being screwed out of a mount or something because maps are empty. And that's why ANet is making us go back to the previous maps, because they can't keep people going there otherwise, which is, again, bad game design.

>

> Dude what? LS4 maps are now populated with people trying to farm the currency. You did not miss out on anything. THANKS to Anet people are roaming those maps because of the mount/trinket.

>

> Dear god, some people...

 

Are you actually arguing that I'm complaining about lack of information? That's a new one.

 

Let me say some really simple statements for you to argue against, okay? Since you seem to be confused.

 

Not everyone wants to craft legendary things.

 

Some people have not played LS4 since it started and thus do not have all the required materials at present.

 

I never said things should be free. They should cost what they're worth.

 

You actually agreed with me on your last point, admitting that those maps are only populated because of these collections.

[BlueJin.4127]

I started doing LWS4 maps due to Skyscale and so far have between 150~180 of each. Personally, I don’t think 250 is a lot. Just doing map completion gets me between 50~70 each from gathering nodes, heart vendors, and map completion reward itself. Metas also reward more currencies. I can get about 100 without repeating, so 250 isn’t too bad, for me.

 

I won’t tell others to be OK with 250 just because I’m OK with it, but I can give some tips to help make it less of a chore. This is something I started doing when I was doing WoC HM for all 10 professions in GW1.

 

1) Don’t rush. If all you think about is wanting it now, it’ll be a chore, no matter what. This isn’t a sub based game. A saying I hated in WoW, but isn’t an issue in a no-sub game, “Slow down.”

2) Don’t think about how much you have left to do. Like above, this can put you in a bad mood. You can’t enjoy the game while in a bad mood.

3) Listen to music or something to help you focus on something else. If you have dual monitors, watching a video also helps.

4) Do whatever you feel like at the moment. Feel like map completing? Feel like gathering? Feel like playing a certain profession? Feel like experimenting a build? Only go for these when you feel like it. When you don’t feel like grinding, don’t.

5) Not related to gameplay, but continue to voice your opinion in the forums. State what the issue is and why/how that is a problem for you. This way, others who never thought about this from your perspective may learn why it may be a problem for some. It’s unlikely change will happen immediately, but by letting the devs know of your opinion, they’ll be more considerate in the future. Despite what some believe, devs do read the forums, they do listen, and they do discuss player opinions in their meetings.

[yann.1946]

> @"SmirkDog.3160" said:

> > @"Krzysztof.5973" said:

> > Next LS is in 3-4 months and from crafting Aurora you should already expect by now that there may be something added to the game that requires LS4 currency with last episode being Dragonfall. You had 1,5 year to from release of first episode to start farming towards something. With such a big spaces of time between episodes there should be something to work on. It's not that much. You have content to play. They have more legendaries to introduce, and mounts. Get ready for the next time, you will be prepared on day 1.

>

> It is very bold of you to assume that a) everyone crafted Aurora? and b) everyone has been playing LS4 since it came out and never stopped playing until now. People shouldn't have to drag themselves to play a game they may not feel like playing at the time just to be able to unlock something later. Also I literally couldn't advance through episode 3? I think? because there was a bug with one of the open-world quests that wouldn't spawn (which was a bug present for 6+ months) so I just quit until they were all out and just had to hope the bug was fixed.

>

> If you miss out on stuff because you didn't play for a year, that's bad game design. Other MMOs I can go back to after not playing for a long time and just catch up easy without being screwed out of a mount or something because maps are empty. And that's why ANet is making us go back to the previous maps, because they can't keep people going there otherwise, which is, again, bad game design.

 

 

Beeing forced to play the game is not bad game design tho.

 

> > @"yann.1946" said:

> > Can you tell me then what the acceptable amount of currency is to ask and why?

>

> No more than 100 because the time and effort spent should be reflected in what you earn, and I seriously doubt the Skyscale is worth 250 of 6 different map currencies (totaling 1,500). Maybe if it spit out gems or something. Making it a 'precursor' for a legendary trinket was stupid and put it out of reach of casual players or players who otherwise can't put in the time to get it. All the other mounts in the base expansion just required a renown heart and some gold, and the Springer can get more ups than the Skyscale can, the Raptor and Jackal are faster, etc.. It's a novelty item at best, and it's not worth that much grind.

 

Personally I think it's absolutely worth 250 of each map currency. It is the most versatile mount we have and allows us to travel the easiest. You don't even need to swap mounts to go places except maybe for jackal portal.

 

Their are some many easy ways to get the currency and the trader in dragonfall makes it take 50 days at most. This seems long but any amount of playing the game will reduce this.

[SmirkDog.3160]

> @"yann.1946" said:

> > @"SmirkDog.3160" said:

> > > @"Krzysztof.5973" said:

> > > Next LS is in 3-4 months and from crafting Aurora you should already expect by now that there may be something added to the game that requires LS4 currency with last episode being Dragonfall. You had 1,5 year to from release of first episode to start farming towards something. With such a big spaces of time between episodes there should be something to work on. It's not that much. You have content to play. They have more legendaries to introduce, and mounts. Get ready for the next time, you will be prepared on day 1.

> >

> > It is very bold of you to assume that a) everyone crafted Aurora? and b) everyone has been playing LS4 since it came out and never stopped playing until now. People shouldn't have to drag themselves to play a game they may not feel like playing at the time just to be able to unlock something later. Also I literally couldn't advance through episode 3? I think? because there was a bug with one of the open-world quests that wouldn't spawn (which was a bug present for 6+ months) so I just quit until they were all out and just had to hope the bug was fixed.

> >

> > If you miss out on stuff because you didn't play for a year, that's bad game design. Other MMOs I can go back to after not playing for a long time and just catch up easy without being screwed out of a mount or something because maps are empty. And that's why ANet is making us go back to the previous maps, because they can't keep people going there otherwise, which is, again, bad game design.

>

>

> Beeing forced to play the game is not bad game design tho.

>

> > > @"yann.1946" said:

> > > Can you tell me then what the acceptable amount of currency is to ask and why?

> >

> > No more than 100 because the time and effort spent should be reflected in what you earn, and I seriously doubt the Skyscale is worth 250 of 6 different map currencies (totaling 1,500). Maybe if it spit out gems or something. Making it a 'precursor' for a legendary trinket was stupid and put it out of reach of casual players or players who otherwise can't put in the time to get it. All the other mounts in the base expansion just required a renown heart and some gold, and the Springer can get more ups than the Skyscale can, the Raptor and Jackal are faster, etc.. It's a novelty item at best, and it's not worth that much grind.

>

> Personally I think it's absolutely worth 250 of each map currency. It is the most versatile mount we have and allows us to travel the easiest. You don't even need to swap mounts to go places except maybe for jackal portal.

>

> Their are some many easy ways to get the currency and the trader in dragonfall makes it take 50 days at most. This seems long but any amount of playing the game will reduce this.

 

"Being forced to play the game is not bad game design tho" is what you actually meant to say? Yikes.

 

Also, the Skyscale is definitely not the most versatile mount. It's basically a slightly more sustainable griffon, which is just a mount-shaped glider. It does not allow us to travel the easiest. What if there's a sheer cliff in front of you that's higher than it can flap up to, and no ledges to stand on to get the green bar back. It can't do that, but you know what can? The Springer. Guess how difficult that was to get. And as far as just going, the Jackal is faster and can use portals. It's a novelty mount that is not worth that much time and suffering.

 

Look above you at some of the people who were reluctant to drag themselves through it but did it anyway. Some of them don't even want to play the game anymore after that. That doesn't seem right to me. You can say "oh but what about all the people that said it's good" because if you're only listening to the people that like how things are, nothing changes.

[yann.1946]

> @"SmirkDog.3160" said:

> > @"yann.1946" said:

> > > @"SmirkDog.3160" said:

> > > > @"Krzysztof.5973" said:

> > > > Next LS is in 3-4 months and from crafting Aurora you should already expect by now that there may be something added to the game that requires LS4 currency with last episode being Dragonfall. You had 1,5 year to from release of first episode to start farming towards something. With such a big spaces of time between episodes there should be something to work on. It's not that much. You have content to play. They have more legendaries to introduce, and mounts. Get ready for the next time, you will be prepared on day 1.

> > >

> > > It is very bold of you to assume that a) everyone crafted Aurora? and b) everyone has been playing LS4 since it came out and never stopped playing until now. People shouldn't have to drag themselves to play a game they may not feel like playing at the time just to be able to unlock something later. Also I literally couldn't advance through episode 3? I think? because there was a bug with one of the open-world quests that wouldn't spawn (which was a bug present for 6+ months) so I just quit until they were all out and just had to hope the bug was fixed.

> > >

> > > If you miss out on stuff because you didn't play for a year, that's bad game design. Other MMOs I can go back to after not playing for a long time and just catch up easy without being screwed out of a mount or something because maps are empty. And that's why ANet is making us go back to the previous maps, because they can't keep people going there otherwise, which is, again, bad game design.

> >

> >

> > Beeing forced to play the game is not bad game design tho.

> >

> > > > @"yann.1946" said:

> > > > Can you tell me then what the acceptable amount of currency is to ask and why?

> > >

> > > No more than 100 because the time and effort spent should be reflected in what you earn, and I seriously doubt the Skyscale is worth 250 of 6 different map currencies (totaling 1,500). Maybe if it spit out gems or something. Making it a 'precursor' for a legendary trinket was stupid and put it out of reach of casual players or players who otherwise can't put in the time to get it. All the other mounts in the base expansion just required a renown heart and some gold, and the Springer can get more ups than the Skyscale can, the Raptor and Jackal are faster, etc.. It's a novelty item at best, and it's not worth that much grind.

> >

> > Personally I think it's absolutely worth 250 of each map currency. It is the most versatile mount we have and allows us to travel the easiest. You don't even need to swap mounts to go places except maybe for jackal portal.

> >

> > Their are some many easy ways to get the currency and the trader in dragonfall makes it take 50 days at most. This seems long but any amount of playing the game will reduce this.

>

> "Being forced to play the game is not bad game design tho" is what you actually meant to say? Yikes.

>

> Also, the Skyscale is definitely not the most versatile mount. It's basically a slightly more sustainable griffon, which is just a mount-shaped glider. It does not allow us to travel the easiest. What if there's a sheer cliff in front of you that's higher than it can flap up to, and no ledges to stand on to get the green bar back. It can't do that, but you know what can? The Springer. Guess how difficult that was to get. And as far as just going, the Jackal is faster and can use portals. It's a novelty mount that is not worth that much time and suffering.

>

> Look above you at some of the people who were reluctant to drag themselves through it but did it anyway. Some of them don't even want to play the game anymore after that. That doesn't seem right to me. You can say "oh but what about all the people that said it's good" because if you're only listening to the people that like how things are, nothing changes.

 

Without a ledge to stand on the skyscale gets higher then the springer, but i guess you haven't gotten the mastery's yet so that explains why you don't know.

 

And i agree that people leaving because of the grind is bad, but their where people we didn't even realise they can get currency's from hearts.

plus the burnout is mostly a consequence from wanting it as fast as possible, not from the grind itself.

 

For example, some people said they just logged in and fed the skyscale and then logged of when the timegate was in debate. Why didn't they just play the other parts of the patch for example?

[Derdzvero.7051]

> @"yann.1946" said:

 

> For example, some people said they just logged in and fed the skyscale and then logged of when the timegate was in debate. Why didn't they just play the other parts of the patch for example?

 

Well, I don't think anyone has issues, running a farm train so there must be a difference, right? I mean if it was a regular grind, we all have been doing for years, why would people rage now? Sure, there was a rant about grifon since we had to run pony murdering train for days, but gold there was ok at least and it was massive. Same with Tarir and dragon stand..

Answer is (IMHO) - it's not the same. And playing lws4 content is not a problem. Replaying it is! That means 1h repetitive, boring, meaningless circle on 5-6 small maps. Many times a day. For many days. It's a suicide for the game

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Derdzvero.7051" said:

> > @"yann.1946" said:

>

> > For example, some people said they just logged in and fed the skyscale and then logged of when the timegate was in debate. Why didn't they just play the other parts of the patch for example?

>

> Well, I don't think anyone has issues, running a farm train so there must be a difference, right? I mean if it was a regular grind, we all have been doing for years, why would people rage now? Sure, there was a rant about grifon since we had to run pony murdering train for days, but gold there was ok at least and it was massive. Same with Tarir and dragon stand..

> Answer is (IMHO) - it's not the same. And playing lws4 content is not a problem. Replaying it is! That means 1h repetitive, boring, meaningless circle on 5-6 small maps. Many times a day. For many days. It's a suicide for the game

 

and here I thought people were freaking out about the 250 gold for the griffon. I must have imagined that. Funny how now years down the road people are fine with it.

 

On a more serious note: people were freaking out about the griffon just as much as they are freaking out about the Skyscale, even more back then since the griffon was the secret hidden bonus cookie which every one desired. Farming the 250 gold for the griffon takes longer than farming the 250 map currencies casually by the way.

 

Going to repeat what I said earlier: if you think the game is dying based on a negative spiral thread of complainers banding together in one thread, you have no understanding of how forums work. The game is fine and seeing people with maxed masteries is becoming more of a common occurrence than a rare one.

[Urgi.3504]

Anet still silent about this? Probably the worst communication with community so far. They lost me at their game support, and are losing me in player communication.

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Urgi.3504" said:

> Anet still silent about this? Probably the worst communication with community so far. They lost me at their game support, and are losing me in player communication.

 

What communication do you expect? Them coming out and communicating that they will not change it? They have no reason to communicate on this.

 

They communicated quite fast about changing the timers for the collections. If they do not expect to change the resources required, why comment it? So people in this thread have a reason to freak out even more? If they intend to change the amount required, they will rather surprise players as added benefit.

 

In 4 weeks no one will care. People will either have left, farmed the materials or decided not to get the skyscale. Either way, the problem will resolve its self and unlike what some here expect, the game will move on.

[Derdzvero.7051]

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

 

> In 4 weeks no one will care. People will either have left, farmed the materials or decided not to get the skyscale. Either way, the problem will resolve its self and unlike what some here expect, the game will move on.

 

On that I agree 1000% with you. And 90% of those cases are bad for GW2 and Anet's income.

 

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Derdzvero.7051" said:

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

>

> > In 4 weeks no one will care. People will either have left, farmed the materials or decided not to get the skyscale. Either way, the problem will resolve its self and unlike what some here expect, the game will move on.

>

> On that I agree 1000% with you. And 90% of those cases are bad for GW2 and Anet's income.

>

 

You are expecting that the amount of people leaving will be significant. I'm not seeing that. From my point of view, mid- to longterm goals will hold a lot more players than a few leaving for not getting their free loot.

 

So no, having some unhappy complainers leave happens with every design decision. The waves around this are not as big as you might expect. Then again, Arenanet have the metrics, so if it IS as big as complainers think it is, they will act. So far they haven't.