YoukiNeko.6047 Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 It's a great system. I really like that my characters actually have their own birthdays at a different days. I really enjoy it. So #nochanges Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 > @"serialkicker.5274" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > I have 31 characters. I know of people who have over 60. Please tell me more about what people do and do not do with character slots. > Good for you. Is that suppose to mean that your opinion on characters slots and why people buy them suddenly carries more weight? Did you buy any character slot for the purpose of receiving birthday gift for it? It's a nice extra, like I said. Are you really going to tell me if these gifts were the ONLY thing you would get from obtaining another character slot, that people would buy more slots? I can just imagine a person deciding if they should buy character slot or not "Hmm, idk man, I could play another class, try new build, make new background story, different fashion, another source of farming and much more but I'm still uncertain if I should. Oh wait, I get a birthday present after a year! Insta buy!" No, I'm saying your assumption is completely personal, not applicable to the entire player base and I personally as well as people I know would not fall under it. > @"serialkicker.5274" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > That's beside the point though. Birthday gifts directly encourage the usage of more character slots, even if in a small way. > Read above. Even if that would be true, it would be for very small percent of people, therefore as everyones logic here is, not worth to worry about. No, it's a small incentive which is replaced by no incentive which makes your idea automatically worse revenue wise. > @"serialkicker.5274" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > None of which are as punishing as losing non replaceable progress towards a birthday gift. > Exactly. That's why I made this topic You misunderstood. None of which are as punishing, as such those penalties are not comparable. You obviously didn't care about them but you care about the gifts. You are a prime example why the other consequences are inconsequential. > @"serialkicker.5274" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > On the contrary, some of those consequences come with benefits attached which might counter balance the negative consequences (new World Exploration gifts, new story and personal story related rewards, etc.). > Which you can earn only by playing the game, you know, the way that deserve to be rewarded. Somehow these repeated rewards you mention are negative, by your logic, while getting same reward for all your 31 characters is totally fine. No, this goes along with the inconsequential consequences you mentioned. They are counter balanced by inconsequential rewards which are present. > @"serialkicker.5274" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > I just don't see the necessity to work and change a system which has been in place since as far back as GW1. It's an established approach, it requires minimal tweaking per year and is widely understood. Which reasoning is there to devote more resources to this? > > Many things have been in place for long. That means nothing at all. Things change. By this logic, Anet shouldn't bother with that build templates idea, since we have done without it for 6+ years. We have done also without raids for the first halve of those 6 years, or multiple elite specializations, or specific roles for content. How exactly did birthday gifts change and become a necessity exactly? Listen, you can argue as much as you want. The official response posted by Pifil.5193 is less than 1 year old. If you want to be right, fine I don't care. Have a cookie and know that there could be dozens of better systems in place. This one is still not going to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serialkicker.5274 Posted June 8, 2019 Author Share Posted June 8, 2019 > @"calb.3128" said: > This topic keeps appearing but without any new arguments to advance it. > > The sense of entitlement on here can at times be staggering. :( Not my fault if I have to repeat what I already said. Just look at post above, that says no changes because he likes his toons to have birthday gifts, while just above and ten times more above that, I said I never asked for birthday gifts to be removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben K.6238 Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 The reason why ANet won't be in much of a hurry to change this system is that it moves the incentive from behaviour that's beneficial to them toward behaviour that's counter-productive. It gives more rewards to people who buy more character slots for new characters instead of deleting old ones. None of them give any meaningful advantage, but they are a nice thank-you. Adding build templates, by comparison, doesn't undercut sales of gem store items. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 > @"serialkicker.5274" said: > > @"calb.3128" said: > > This topic keeps appearing but without any new arguments to advance it. > > > > The sense of entitlement on here can at times be staggering. :( > > Not my fault if I have to repeat what I already said. Just look at post above, that says no changes because he likes his toons to have birthday gifts, while just above and ten times more above that, I said I never asked for birthday gifts to be removed. I never said I was in favor of the system due to my toons. I was very clear on the benefits of the current system. If you want to start making things up because you are unhappy people disagree with you, I'll gladly start reporting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serialkicker.5274 Posted June 8, 2019 Author Share Posted June 8, 2019 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: ... You know, these build templates they are working on, will have a lot greater effect on people and character slots. If we can swap builds on same character, many people won't need multiple chars of the same class. By your logic, what the heck is anet doing, hurting their revenue! > How exactly did birthday gifts change and become a necessity exactly? Raids - not necessity, roles - not necessity, elite specs - not necessity. New birthday gifts are starting to get some exclusive skins. Skins are huge part of the game, we all know that. I would just like to think if next year or year after that brings something I like, I'm not missing it because of shoddy system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serialkicker.5274 Posted June 8, 2019 Author Share Posted June 8, 2019 > @"Ben K.6238" said: > Adding build templates, by comparison, doesn't undercut sales of gem store items. Read post above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben K.6238 Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 A realistic analogy might help make that argument credible. Right now, it's much easier to keep multiple armour and weapon sets on the same character than it is to create a completely new one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serialkicker.5274 Posted June 8, 2019 Author Share Posted June 8, 2019 > @"Ben K.6238" said: > A realistic analogy might help make that argument credible. Right now, it's much easier to keep multiple armour and weapon sets on the same character than it is to create a completely new one. Let's see: 1. Click on every piece of armor, trinket and weapon to replace with other stats. Reselect traits, reselect utilities. Also carry all that amour in inventory. or 2. Relog on different character It takes 5 seconds to swap for me, how long does it take you? You can choose to ignore this for the sake of your argument, but I think we all know plenty people made multiple characters for that reason. I certainly know a whole bunch. And I'm also one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serialkicker.5274 Posted June 8, 2019 Author Share Posted June 8, 2019 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"serialkicker.5274" said: > > > @"calb.3128" said: > > > This topic keeps appearing but without any new arguments to advance it. > > > > > > The sense of entitlement on here can at times be staggering. :( > > > > Not my fault if I have to repeat what I already said. Just look at post above, that says no changes because he likes his toons to have birthday gifts, while just above and ten times more above that, I said I never asked for birthday gifts to be removed. > > I never said I was in favor of the system due to my toons. I was very clear on the benefits of the current system. If you want to start making things up because you are unhappy people disagree with you, I'll gladly start reporting. That was meant for other post, other guy. You just beat me to it with your post when I was typing. If that's all it takes for people to get offended, then no wonder discussion cannot be had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 > @"serialkicker.5274" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"serialkicker.5274" said: > > > > @"calb.3128" said: > > > > This topic keeps appearing but without any new arguments to advance it. > > > > > > > > The sense of entitlement on here can at times be staggering. :( > > > > > > Not my fault if I have to repeat what I already said. Just look at post above, that says no changes because he likes his toons to have birthday gifts, while just above and ten times more above that, I said I never asked for birthday gifts to be removed. > > > > I never said I was in favor of the system due to my toons. I was very clear on the benefits of the current system. If you want to start making things up because you are unhappy people disagree with you, I'll gladly start reporting. > > That was meant for other post, other guy. You just beat me to it with your post when I was typing. If that's all it takes for people to get offended, then no wonder discussion cannot be had. Fair enough, my bad. I've said my view on this. In a world of limitless resources and a different monetization model, I'm sure this would be approached changed. Not seeing it. Then again it's luckily also not my decision to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben K.6238 Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 It takes a bit longer than 5 seconds to create a new character from scratch. Sure, you can level them up much faster using tomes, but if you keep deleting your characters those won't last forever. I've made multiple characters of the same class as well. There are several advantages to doing this, including different appearance and story options, additional map completion attempts, additional daily harvests, etc. which you don't get from build templates alone. If the only thing I want to do is swap gear and traits, I just swap gear and traits. For people who genuinely do find it worthwhile to buy a whole new character slot just for a different build alone, I'm sure they might refrain from buying further character slots if they can just use build templates. On the other hand, they'll end up needing more bank/bag space so the difference starts to become a little blurry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seera.5916 Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 > @"serialkicker.5274" said: > > @"Seera.5916" said: > > > Would you be fine if they kept the character birthdays like they are, but added an account birthday? And of course removing account based gifts from the character gifts and adding a vendor or option to an existing vendor to give the account based gifts to players like yourself who don't have a character old enough but whose account is old enough. > > May I kindly ask you to reread my original post? You would realize that is basically idea I was going for. I had not caught on to that and I don't know why people are against adding an account birthday gift. But you may have been better served by being more explicit about not wanting to replace the current rewards when people were initially getting the wrong idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serialkicker.5274 Posted June 8, 2019 Author Share Posted June 8, 2019 > @"Ben K.6238" said: > It takes a bit longer than 5 seconds to create a new character from scratch. Sure, you can level them up much faster using tomes, but if you keep deleting your characters those won't last forever. > > I've made multiple characters of the same class as well. There are several advantages to doing this, including different appearance and story options, additional map completion attempts, additional daily harvests, etc. which you don't get from build templates alone. If the only thing I want to do is swap gear and traits, I just swap gear and traits. > > For people who genuinely do find it worthwhile to buy a whole new character slot just for a different build alone, I'm sure they might refrain from buying further character slots if they can just use build templates. On the other hand, they'll end up needing more bank/bag space so the difference starts to become a little blurry. Oh, believe me, people do. And even if they wouldn't buy a new slot, they are dedicating one slot for this purpose, meaning that is one slot less for other needs. I know plenty of people, who for example, made another same class just to have character ready for raids. Same for bunch of other reasons. Obviously, yes, they are probably aware that character will have other uses other than that, if needed, but still, having another same class ready with build and gear for whatever purpose was a big, if not the main factor in decision to make that character and use that free slot or buy a new one. Anyhow, this point was made, because other poster suggested that reduce in $$$ for Anet is being an issue here with this idea of mine. So, I made this as counter argument. A lot more people would get affected by build templates, meaning less money, than would if they put exclusive rewards anniversary for account creation gift and keep birthday gifts without exclusive for characters. Even most players themselves wouldn't lose much, so I don't know why people are so opposed to idea. How they balance these rewards and how many skins or unique items would Anet give per each anniversary would be up to them and could be compensated for changing from current system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serialkicker.5274 Posted June 8, 2019 Author Share Posted June 8, 2019 > @"Seera.5916" said: > > @"serialkicker.5274" said: > > > @"Seera.5916" said: > > > > > Would you be fine if they kept the character birthdays like they are, but added an account birthday? And of course removing account based gifts from the character gifts and adding a vendor or option to an existing vendor to give the account based gifts to players like yourself who don't have a character old enough but whose account is old enough. > > > > May I kindly ask you to reread my original post? You would realize that is basically idea I was going for. > > I had not caught on to that and I don't know why people are against adding an account birthday gift. > > But you may have been better served by being more explicit about not wanting to replace the current rewards when people were initially getting the wrong idea. I did mention it many times. But it seems people are really close minded and not happy that something that they personally don't care for, could be addressed. If someone doesn't feel strong about certain aspect of the game, then in his eyes, Anet would be wasting resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inculpatus cedo.9234 Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 One can not speak for ArenaNet, but one can speak for the playerbase? I may not completely consider Birthday Gifts when purchasing a Character slot, but I _know_ I consider lost Birthday Gifts when deciding to delete a character. Even if it is a small percentage of revenue for ArenaNet, it is still revenue that would be lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaogin.2679 Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 We could always compromise here and add account birthdays alongside character birthdays. So everyone would get birthday gifts based on the age of their account to catch them up. This way, people that delete characters would get all the gifts they've been missing out on, and people that have multiple old characters will just receive extra rewards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seera.5916 Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 > @"Shaogin.2679" said: > We could always compromise here and add account birthdays alongside character birthdays. So everyone would get birthday gifts based on the age of their account to catch them up. This way, people that delete characters would get all the gifts they've been missing out on, and people that have multiple old characters will just receive extra rewards. That's what the OP suggested in the first post. That they add an account birthday. This account birthday would give different gifts than the character birthdays and the character birthdays remain as they are (with the account rewards removed and shifted to the account birthday side) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 > @"serialkicker.5274" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > ... > > You know, these build templates they are working on, will have a lot greater effect on people and character slots. If we can swap builds on same character, many people won't need multiple chars of the same class. By your logic, what the heck is anet doing, hurting their revenue! > > > How exactly did birthday gifts change and become a necessity exactly? > Raids - not necessity, roles - not necessity, elite specs - not necessity. New birthday gifts are starting to get some exclusive skins. Skins are huge part of the game, we all know that. I would just like to think if next year or year after that brings something I like, I'm not missing it because of shoddy system. If you think they arent going to sell build template slots your living in a imaginary world. We probabely will get1 for free so we can have both elite specs at start. But some classes want core aswell, warrior comes to mind for the better cc for example and then there will be elite spec 3,4 ,5,6 and so on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seera.5916 Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 > @"Linken.6345" said: > > @"serialkicker.5274" said: > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > ... > > > > You know, these build templates they are working on, will have a lot greater effect on people and character slots. If we can swap builds on same character, many people won't need multiple chars of the same class. By your logic, what the heck is anet doing, hurting their revenue! > > > > > How exactly did birthday gifts change and become a necessity exactly? > > Raids - not necessity, roles - not necessity, elite specs - not necessity. New birthday gifts are starting to get some exclusive skins. Skins are huge part of the game, we all know that. I would just like to think if next year or year after that brings something I like, I'm not missing it because of shoddy system. > > If you think they arent going to sell build template slots your living in a imaginary world. > We probabely will get1 for free so we can have both elite specs at start. > But some classes want core aswell, warrior comes to mind for the better cc for example and then there will be elite spec 3,4 ,5,6 and so on 1 free so that people can get a taste for it and then offer more stored templates for a fee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serialkicker.5274 Posted June 8, 2019 Author Share Posted June 8, 2019 > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said: > One can not speak for ArenaNet, but one can speak for the playerbase? Speaking for Arenanet when you are not part of the team, is one thing and speaking for playerbase (not entire, you just made that up), is another thing. I can speak for people I have talked to, shared experience with, read about their experience in guild chat, map chat, forums etc.. > I may not completely consider Birthday Gifts when purchasing a Character slot, but I _know_ I consider lost Birthday Gifts when deciding to delete a character. Even if it is a small percentage of revenue for ArenaNet, it is still revenue that would be lost. Thanks for confirming everything that I already said. You are concerned about revenue with this, but not with tons of other things anet is doing, like build templates. Or take QoL changes. Do you think QoL changes to inventory for example does not require time from developers? Do you think adding an option to insta store all materials was not lost of revenue? Not everything is about money, otherwise game wouldn't be fun and no one would play it. There needs to be balance. How exactly would they lost revenue with my proposed change? You would still get same rewards, just from different sources. You would still get special skin, just not for birthday gift, but anniversary gift instead. People who keep characters for birthday gifts would still get birthday gifts. People would still buy character slots for any reason they are buying now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serialkicker.5274 Posted June 8, 2019 Author Share Posted June 8, 2019 > @"Linken.6345" said: > > @"serialkicker.5274" said: > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > ... > > > > You know, these build templates they are working on, will have a lot greater effect on people and character slots. If we can swap builds on same character, many people won't need multiple chars of the same class. By your logic, what the heck is anet doing, hurting their revenue! > > > > > How exactly did birthday gifts change and become a necessity exactly? > > Raids - not necessity, roles - not necessity, elite specs - not necessity. New birthday gifts are starting to get some exclusive skins. Skins are huge part of the game, we all know that. I would just like to think if next year or year after that brings something I like, I'm not missing it because of shoddy system. > > If you think they arent going to sell build template slots your living in a imaginary world. > We probabely will get1 for free so we can have both elite specs at start. > But some classes want core aswell, warrior comes to mind for the better cc for example and then there will be elite spec 3,4 ,5,6 and so on Even one slot is plenty. I doubt many people would like to swap elite specs 5x a day. I imagine they would be mostly used to swap builds and utlities an maybe weapons around, for example mesmer swaping to reflect build for reflect heavy fight. Playing some core warrior this hour and then berserker next hour and then a bit of spellbreaker.... Idk, hard to imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seera.5916 Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 > @"serialkicker.5274" said: > > @"Linken.6345" said: > > > @"serialkicker.5274" said: > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > ... > > > > > > You know, these build templates they are working on, will have a lot greater effect on people and character slots. If we can swap builds on same character, many people won't need multiple chars of the same class. By your logic, what the heck is anet doing, hurting their revenue! > > > > > > > How exactly did birthday gifts change and become a necessity exactly? > > > Raids - not necessity, roles - not necessity, elite specs - not necessity. New birthday gifts are starting to get some exclusive skins. Skins are huge part of the game, we all know that. I would just like to think if next year or year after that brings something I like, I'm not missing it because of shoddy system. > > > > If you think they arent going to sell build template slots your living in a imaginary world. > > We probabely will get1 for free so we can have both elite specs at start. > > But some classes want core aswell, warrior comes to mind for the better cc for example and then there will be elite spec 3,4 ,5,6 and so on > > Even one slot is plenty. I doubt many people would like to swap elite specs 5x a day. I imagine they would be mostly used to swap builds and utlities an maybe weapons around, for example mesmer swaping to reflect build for reflect heavy fight. Playing some core warrior this hour and then berserker next hour and then a bit of spellbreaker.... Idk, hard to imagine. WvW zerg build. WvW roaming build. Raid build. Fractal build. Dungeon build. World Boss build. Gathering build. Open world build. Build created to do that one story instance you needed to change your build for and you didn't want to immediately delete it in case it could be useful for a future instance. Also players who literally only have 1 character would likely need to buy some if they want to play in multiple modes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dami.5046 Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 oh c'mon. no no no. NO NO NO. It's a 'Birthday reward for a reason' *hits head on wall* NO. what next? Complete set of ascended gear with those lvl80 boosts, along with a weapon and mats to start vison? I can't even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seera.5916 Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 > @"Dami.5046" said: > what next? Complete set of ascended gear with those lvl80 boosts, along with a weapon and mats to start vison? > I can't even. > He's not asking for something that unreasonable. He's just asking for a gift that looks at account age rather than character age. While this may not be an issue for the first few years, I can see how players who don't want to buy new character slots may want to make new characters every 3-4 years. Which means they may not hit years 5+ on individual characters but have been around for several years. And it's not like he's asking for the gift to be unreasonable either. Just for there to be a gift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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