While everyone is complaining about soulbeasts an thieves and stealth

[Anput.4620]

Why are Scourge and Firebrand allowed to be the 2 best WvW professions since PoF without any complaints?

[Doug.4930]

Well I've tried to bring up the topic of firebrand recently. However my squad hasn't played enough scourge for me to have any informed opinion on them.

[Justine.6351]

You arnt going to nerf firebrand so hard that healing shout warrior becomes a thing.

 

You arnt going to nerf marks, shades and boon corruption hard enough to make, idk what could really replace necromancer corruption.

 

So I don't know what you expect, more "power creep" for everyone else?

[Anput.4620]

> @"Justine.6351" said:

> You arnt going to nerf firebrand so hard that healing shout warrior becomes a thing.

>

> You arnt going to nerf marks, shades and boon corruption hard enough to make, idk what could really replace necromancer corruption.

>

> So I don't know what you expect, more "power creep" for everyone else?

 

Can say the same about all the roaming balance threads made by non-roamers on here lol, except roaming is way more diverse. You can nerf it and have multiple options, nerfing doesn't mean gutting.

[Sovereign.1093]

> @"Anput.4620" said:

> Why are Scourge and Firebrand allowed to be the 2 best WvW professions since PoF without any complaints?

 

they are not. also tons of complains have been said already since the time they went online. and right now, the best comp is not these two. its fb scrapper rev scourge war. =p

[Anput.4620]

> @"Sovereign.1093" said:

> > @"Anput.4620" said:

> > Why are Scourge and Firebrand allowed to be the 2 best WvW professions since PoF without any complaints?

>

> they are not. also tons of complains have been said already since the time they went online. and right now, the best comp is not these two. its fb scrapper rev scourge war. =p

 

The best comp still includes those 2 and those 2 are still the most vital parts, don't see the difference lol.

 

And dunno, when was the last time you see a post about them here? Weeks ago? All i see is posts about rangers, or stealth, or thieves etc constantly.

[Sovereign.1093]

> @"Anput.4620" said:

> > @"Sovereign.1093" said:

> > > @"Anput.4620" said:

> > > Why are Scourge and Firebrand allowed to be the 2 best WvW professions since PoF without any complaints?

> >

> > they are not. also tons of complains have been said already since the time they went online. and right now, the best comp is not these two. its fb scrapper rev scourge war. =p

>

> The best comp still includes those 2 and those 2 are still the most vital parts, don't see the difference lol.

>

> And dunno, when was the last time you see a post about them here? Weeks ago? All i see is posts about rangers, or stealth, or thieves etc constantly.

 

well scourge is just too good to pass up. :/

and fb simply is a jack of all things.

 

[Zephyra.4709]

firebrand and scourge are like bacon and eggs. They go well together. now I'm hungry. In fact they've been going well together even before PoF... HoT... core days.

 

>@"Justine.6351"

> idk what could really replace necromancer corruption.

 

balance team thought process: looks like it's time to buff scourge & nerf sPelLbReAkEr :trollface:

[Sovereign.1093]

> @"Zephyra.4709" said:

> firebrand and scourge are like bacon and eggs. They go well together. now I'm hungry. In fact they've been going well together even before PoF... HoT... core days.

>

> >@"Justine.6351"

> > idk what could really replace necromancer corruption.

>

> balance team thought process: looks like it's time to buff scourge & nerf sPelLbReAkEr :trollface:

 

true, a simple counter to a pushing war bubble is another war deady with hammer 4. because the bubble war loses all boons when that happens. 4 will knock him back.

[derd.6413]

scourge and FB are good because of the boonspam meta and general blob behavior which is a more overall issue with all classes while SB and thief are a problem because of certain mechanics on said classes

[Sovereign.1093]

> @"derd.6413" said:

> scourge and FB are good because of the boonspam meta and general blob behavior which is a more overall issue with all classes while SB and thief are a problem because of certain mechanics on said classes

 

what mechanics of those classes makes them a problem :3

 

 

[alain.1659]

No class should have the ultimate dominion on any given role. Firebrand destroys other support profession, including shout guardian. Scourge destroys every other dps profession including well necro. Being better is something, being the only option is another.

[derd.6413]

> @"Sovereign.1093" said:

> > @"derd.6413" said:

> > scourge and FB are good because of the boonspam meta and general blob behavior which is a more overall issue with all classes while SB and thief are a problem because of certain mechanics on said classes

>

> what mechanics of those classes makes them a problem :3

>

>

 

stealth is just annoying and SB's burst (which from what i've heard seems mostly due to sic'em)

[Sovereign.1093]

> @"derd.6413" said:

> > @"Sovereign.1093" said:

> > > @"derd.6413" said:

> > > scourge and FB are good because of the boonspam meta and general blob behavior which is a more overall issue with all classes while SB and thief are a problem because of certain mechanics on said classes

> >

> > what mechanics of those classes makes them a problem :3

> >

> >

>

> stealth is just annoying and SB's burst (which from what i've heard seems mostly due to sic'em)

 

indeed :3

[enkidu.5937]

If you refer to roaming Sic'em Boonbeast and perma stealth Thiefs -> low skill ceiling -> high reward

Thats where the complains come from, in the first place.

 

For FB: not so easy for an average player to handle lots of situational skill rotations -> makes your group melt quickly

 

For Bersi Scourge: almost no sustain or mobility -> hard to survive a 3 min Zerg fight as an avarage player

Also presure damage, boon corrupt and condi presure are only valuable if applied coordinated, and an average player may struggle with that, too.

 

So, the "not healthy for build diversity" complains apply to all of these builds, but I wouldn't sort FB and Scourge into the "low risk, high reward" department.

[Fish.2769]

Guardians have been the core of the meta since the game was released. No other class has that much AoE support or at least none that compared to a Guardians. Firebrands just do what they always did better.

 

Necro's pretty much the same, always been in the meta because nothing else can corrupt on the same level, Scourge just adds to what a Necro could already do just more effectively.

 

Rev came along and pushed Warrior out of place quite a bit, Spellbreaker brought it back in. They also pushed Eles out even further because they have better sustain and on par if not better DPS.

 

Scrapper became a thing because ANet over-buffed it with the gyro change, before that patch, nobody played Scrapper. (Or very few to my knowledge, please don't hate me).

 

Mesmers were used for Veil pretty much, not much else until Chronomancer became a thing then they became Boonbots pretty much.

 

Thieves and Rangers have never really had a part in the 'blob meta' due to how their classes play/designed. However, Thieves have been a part of the less popular GvG meta since focus parties become a thing (Not Commander sniping, wrong idea!) and now they kind of have a place due to Daredevil's ability to bounce around evading with Staff 5.

[anduriell.6280]

Simply because all the complains are about one player besting other so the defeated knows a ranger, chrono, thief killed them.

In a zerg you never know what killed you and complain about a zerg is kinda weird...

 

But yeah, the rooten issue with wvw is the basic monopoly guardian and necro have of the gamemode.

[EremiteAngel.9765]

There are a few plausible reasons for this.

 

**Advantage of numbers**

In a Guild/Blob, they have the advantage of numbers.

More numbers means more options to mix and match classes/builds

This allows them to cover weaknesses and amplify strengths of each other.

Since there is little to restrict the Guilds/Blobs when building their comp, there is little to complain about any OP/Dominating class/build since all Guilds/Blobs have similar levels of access to all classes/builds.

 

**Less self-centered, More Group focused**

In a Guild/Blob, players have a stronger Group mentality.

They are less self-centered and think more for the Group's benefit.

They would learn and bring new classes to the group depending on the commander's requests.

Being more Group focused, it matters little to them if a few classes are dominating since those are precisely the classes they would bring to the fight for the good of the Group.

 

Ultimately, with little to restrict the composition of a Guild/Blob, and their focus being on winning as a Group, they only have to pick the stongest classes to fill the respective roles in the group.

There isn't much need to complain about any class because they have the flexibility of numbers to include them in their comp.

 

Solo / Small Scale roaming on the other hand, is largely self-centered and Class focused.

Many players are Class oriented and play only their favorite class.

These would be the people who are more likely to complain about other classes over-performing because they want to fight on a balanced field with the class that they prefer.

[LetoII.3782]

> @"EremiteAngel.9765" said:

>

> Ultimately, with little to restrict the composition of a Guild/Blob, and their focus being on winning as a Group, they only have to pick the stongest classes

 

That was the lengthiest "I agree with op" I've seen in some time..

[SoV.5139]

SB, Thieves, stealth, are all complaints about roamers being able to pick people off one at a time with no consequences.

 

FB/scourge are blob specs.

 

Its like comparing a single opponent combat sport like MMA to NFL football.

[Anput.4620]

> @"enkidu.5937" said:

> If you refer to roaming Sic'em Boonbeast and perma stealth Thiefs -> low skill ceiling -> high reward

> Thats where the complains come from, in the first place.

>

> For FB: not so easy for an average player to handle lots of situational skill rotations -> makes your group melt quickly

>

> For Bersi Scourge: almost no sustain or mobility -> hard to survive a 3 min Zerg fight as an avarage player

> Also presure damage, boon corrupt and condi presure are only valuable if applied coordinated, and an average player may struggle with that, too.

>

> So, the "not healthy for build diversity" complains apply to all of these builds, but I wouldn't sort FB and Scourge into the "low risk, high reward" department.

 

What reward? Scourge is literally roll face over keyboard and get 10x the reward/bags of any Thief/Ranger.

 

> @"SoV.5139" said:

> SB, Thieves, stealth, are all complaints about roamers being able to pick people off one at a time with no consequences.

>

> FB/scourge are blob specs.

>

> Its like comparing a single opponent combat sport like MMA to NFL football.

 

So different builds are good at different things? What is the objective complaint again?

[LetoII.3782]

> @"SoV.5139" said:

> SB, Thieves, stealth, are all complaints about roamers being able to pick people off one at a time with no consequences.

>

 

Oh, there's consequences to not playing in the blob

 

 

[DeadlySynz.3471]

Not even so much as scourge, because they are slow as hell and easy targets. The main culprit is firebrands; they are basically required in parties. That is why they need to be completely gutted or removed from WvW all together. Seen far too many times commanders refusing to leave spawn until they have enough firebrands. If that doesn't set off red flags about a class, I don't know what does.

[XECOR.2814]

This thread is not worth discussion. Trying to defend soulbeast. Lol.

[Anput.4620]

> @"XECOR.2814" said:

> This thread is not worth discussion. Trying to defend soulbeast. Lol.

 

Trying to defend 2 most used professions in all of WvW since PoF then compares them to no impact build lol.