Anet back in Silent Mode

[Vayne.8563]

> @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

> > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

> > > > > GW2 definitely isn't designed with a hardcore player in mind, they go to other MMORPGs for that, and I can appreciate some of those aspects in GW2. I don't have to worry about gear treadmill, I can take a break for months and come back and I'm all good (though I do enjoy gear treadmill), and it can be helpful for newer players or less skilled players to get more accustomed to content because what we have is nowhere near difficult. There are positives, but the negatives are that a whole group of players essentially gets ignored and feels like the things they look to do in the game are just neglected. Which is where communication and better engagement could come in handy, and where at the very least *considering* the feedback from those smaller subsets of players, aka you know the ones actually playing the content, could benefit that content. I mean they did invite guilds interested and who have done *raiding* before to test Raids before they released for the first time way, way back when.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > ... and this isn't related to Anet communicating more. Again, you have somehow correlated more communication from Anet being equal to players being listened to more. That's not sound. I would give up ALL the communication we get from Anet to have a more transparent approach to player-developer interactions and decision making process. They simply aren't related, at all.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Except isn't that exactly what the intention was when they brought in players to play test raids?

> >

> > How is Anet taking in players to test raids related to Anet communicating with the playerbase? No, honestly I don't see the connection. They could have ZERO communication with the general population and **still** facilitate a process for player feedback. This is what you don't like.

> >

> > Again, they HAVE a process for getting feedback on their developments. Do not misinterpret more communication from Anet as some kind of broader player-driven process for giving feedback. You are formulating this completely unmanageable process in your mind where players just tell Anet what they want and they will magically get it ... IF Anet communicates more. That's not a realistic view.

> >

>

> Well its the whole process that lead up to that which I described...not sure why that is getting ignored. Also I never *once* said that would be how it happened, in fact multiple times now I said that there should be a process in which they parse through it, but as I stated in my last post that process *does not seem to be there anymore*. They *did* do it, the CDI, but they haven't for years now, at least not in any way that we have been *informed* of. This has in now way, shape or form been about wanting ANet to be told what to do by the players and then the players "magically get it". Not at all what has been said or implied.

>

> The ask is not that they take upon this unreasonable task of adhering to and bending to every whim of the community when it pops up as a thread or a request, but that they take the time to acknowledge that there *is* feedback, formulate an appropriate process for it (possibly even something similar to the CDI) and communicate on future plans for the game, with a roadmap, so that the community has some idea as to what the future of the game might hold, as well as give the community a heads up on the kind of content that they are working on and not just a *week* before it releases. Real simple. Not at all complicated, not even at all unreasonable...why is a roadmap, or weekly blog post or devstream such an unreasonable request when when several other companies do that exact thing?

>

> It legitimately feels like you're trying to vilify the entire concept by misrepresenting the idea behind it. Suggesting that ANet take better steps, better measures, to communicate and engage with the community with *reasonable* things like a proper roadmap and at least a frequent and consistent blog post/devstream every week (or every 2 weeks if one a week is apparently *too much*), is like asking for them to drag their entire dev teams away from their jobs to go post onto the forums individually. No. That is not the idea behind it and also not how that works.

>

> > @"Vayne.8563" said:

> > > @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

> > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

> > > > > GW2 definitely isn't designed with a hardcore player in mind, they go to other MMORPGs for that, and I can appreciate some of those aspects in GW2. I don't have to worry about gear treadmill, I can take a break for months and come back and I'm all good (though I do enjoy gear treadmill), and it can be helpful for newer players or less skilled players to get more accustomed to content because what we have is nowhere near difficult. There are positives, but the negatives are that a whole group of players essentially gets ignored and feels like the things they look to do in the game are just neglected. Which is where communication and better engagement could come in handy, and where at the very least *considering* the feedback from those smaller subsets of players, aka you know the ones actually playing the content, could benefit that content. I mean they did invite guilds interested and who have done *raiding* before to test Raids before they released for the first time way, way back when.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > ... and this isn't related to Anet communicating more. Again, you have somehow correlated more communication from Anet being equal to players being listened to more. That's not sound. I would give up ALL the communication we get from Anet to have a more transparent approach to player-developer interactions and decision making process. They simply aren't related, at all.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Except isn't that exactly what the intention was when they brought in players to play test raids?

> > >

> > > You said they've taken feedback before. True. There was an entire section on the forums that they dedicated to player feedback and dev-player engagement, they called it the CDI (Collaborative Development Initiative) and I believe they even got feedback, from the community, on how Raiding should work in GW2. This was all back in *2014* and the CDI topic on Raiding had been started about 3 months before HoT was even announced (it was announced on January 24, 2015). Meaning they took a good several months of feedback before HoT released and before Raids even released.

> > >

> > > ANet even announced Raids were coming to GW2 on August of 2015, the first Raid wing of Forsaken Thicket (Spirit Vale) released *3 months later* in November.

> > >

> > > There are two things here, communication and then community engagement. Depending on the circumstances they can definitely be related. If they communicate intentions properly, like with a Roadmap or *appropriate time as a heads up*, and then offer opportunities to give feedback on upcoming content either through playtesting (as the example above) or by giving information in more detail via a stream or blog post, then there could be a helpful symbiotic relationship born from that.

> > >

> > > They have done all of these things before...but they stopped. Like I said, they only got worse at it as time has gone on.

> > >

> > > All that I just described in this post that ANet *did* is not anything they do now. We get 1 week of notification ahead of time and we have nothing that even remotely resembles the CDI.

> > >

> > > So how exactly are these two things not related?

> >

> > But surely you know they've listened to the community in the instance of dungeons and made a different decision based on their knowledge. You can not agree with it if you like, but that IS the decision. This has nothing to do with not communicating. They told you why. They communicated. You may not agree with it, but I'm not sure why that matters. I do agree with is. They listened to me, not you. That's the issue. Too many people think to listen to the community means to obey the community. That is not the case.

>

> Nope.

>

> Not saying that they should obey the community. Why does this keep getting misconstrued in such an egregious fashion? Kind of blowing my mind right now.

>

> At this point I'm going to try less to *explain* things and just give examples.

>

> Examples of what is being looked for, what I believe would be appreciated by the community but also helpful to ANet are things like;

> * A roadmap. Having an idea of future goals and plans for the game could go a long way towards just informing the community rather than let their imaginations run wild.

> * A weekly (or bi-weekly) devstream/blog post that goes into what is potentially being looked at for balance patches/upcoming events/gem store skin concept art/etc. Would also help solve the issue where we get informed of some game changing update a *week* before it launches.

> * Potentially another process similar to the CDI (Collaborative Development Initiative) that ANet had done back in 2014 until I believe mid to late 2015 or early 2016. This had actually helped pave the way for Raids and how they were *initially* and *first* implemented (they spent about a year developing them based on when they made the CDI thread for Raid feedback and suggestions), as well as other things like changes in WvW and sPvP and their systems and mechanics, it also brought us Guild Halls, as well as changes to the Commander tag and system, as well as a topic that had been about Horizontal and Vertical Progression in the game. This had been helmed by Chris Whiteside and Isaiah Cartwright, however Whiteside is unfortunately no longer at ANet as he left in 2015 and I can't remember the last time I saw Isaiah post or appear on anything.

> (I felt the CDI needed a bit more explaining as it was around *4 or 5 years ago*)

>

> A few examples of companies that do things like this?

> Digital Extremes (Warframe, which is a *7 year old* game with a similar size team as ANet)

> Bungie (Destiny 2, they actually have a weekly blogpost and have been improving since moving away from Activision)

> Grinding Gear Games (Path of Exile, the devs actually keep their players informed of balance changes and communicate about player feedback)

 

The CDIs were terrible, useless wastes of time that accomplished nothing in my opinion. I watches those. Many of them degraded into random complaining. Some of them got really heated. And there was not on idea in the CDIs that I saw that wasn't offered elsewhere at a different point. The forums and reddit give ideas and ANet does read them. I know this because Chris Whiteside used to read my posts.

 

I contacted him one day after one of the CDI went south and the community was being very angry and aggressive and I said, I have a guild full of people who don't feel that way and I wouldn't take this to heart. This is a few very vocal, very disenfranchised people. I was actually pretty sad about the state of the community that day. I didn't even expect him to get back to me.

 

So he mails me back telling me he's glad I took the time to contact him and that he reads my posts all the time and that I have a lot of good ideas. Later on he joined my guild. He was a really cool guy and he wasn't always treated well by the community. My guild used to harrass him about putting paper bag helms into the game, since we love them so much but he was adamant that that wouldn't happen. It was like a guild meme for a while, but at least we were pleasant about it.

 

The point is, you see the CDIs as accomplishing something because they SHOW Anet is listening, but in reality Anet does read and parse what goes on on the forums, some people just want them to prove it. There's plenty of discussion and information that goes on here, about all sorts of topics. CDIs were just too focused on one thing and if that one thing wasn't dungeons or that one thing wasn't PVP, or that one thing wasn't balance (and it never was) it doesn't really help what you're asking at all. It was something Anet could point to and say look we're communicating, but I don't think the CDIs were the answer and I don't think the structure of the forum makes them particularly useful. Reddit would likely be better for that, but this is what we have.

 

At the end of the day, you believe Anet doesn't read the forums or listen, or I assume you do. From watching the forums and what Anet does, I assume the opposite. They simply inform what's being asked for with other information only they have...how many man hours will something take, what percentage of the population ever played that content in the first place and how much else they have on their plate. They know the budget of time and money. They know what they're working on. We don't. Asking for a rehash of dungeons that only a small percentage of the playerbase will likely use or care about may not be in the best interests of the game, even if you want it. Even if you feel strongly about it. That's what I'm talking about.

[Trise.2865]

> @"zealex.9410" said:

> > @"Trise.2865" said:

> > > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > > @"Knighthonor.4061" said:

> > > > > @"Erasculio.2914" said:

> > > > > Just to give an example, we have on the FF XIV reddit a topic named "Guild Wars 2 Refugees coming to FFXIV":

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > If you take a look, it's not made by a GW2 hater, or whatever you want to call it; rather, by someone who's frustrated with the current situation of the game, and the lack of any sign that things will get better.

> > > > >

> > > > > There's a very interesting topic discussing it on the GW2 reddit:

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > In which, again, the main theme is frustration with ArenaNet's silence about the future of Guild Wars 2.

> > > >

> > > > iam reading the top comments on the second link. I am curious, do you all want more grind? Is that the goal? I hate the LW Story as well, but More Grind is not the answer IMO.

> > >

 

> I mean, you talk like the game has bo grind while the overwhelming majority of it is locked behind gold.

> >

>

> I meant moreso the rewards but ehh, lets see

>

> > I'd like an explanation of this. What areas do you have to pay Gold to enter?

>

> None that i can think but theres certainly some that you will get in easier if you invested into somes things (which to an extend cost gold), like gear.

 

Really? The load times are faster with the right gear? The doors open higher or quicker if your fashion is on point? Come on, now... Maps are freely available to anyone playing the game and you know it.

 

> > What activities do you need Gold to participate in?

>

> Pugging raids and t4 fractals/cm in terms of the entry investment into your gear and buffs foods etc.

 

So I'm to believe that https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crafting no longer exists? or that https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dessa now charges you gold instead of relics and infusions, and blocks you from entering the Fractals without paying a fee? or that https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Looking_For_Group and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guild systems charge Gold fees to group up? Once again, as you well know, all players are free to join in the content as much as they want. It's the raiders themselves denying players action, and they're *easily* circumvented using these systems.

 

> > What enemies won't fight you unless you pay them Gold?

>

> None really but i find that abit weird of a point. Its not gold but full gambits queen's gauntlet bosses eont fight u unless u pay the req currency.

 

Oh would you look at that? Playing through an event to progress the event, how strange. Still, has nothing to do with gold, does it?

 

> > What gear can you only obtain with Gold?

>

> Ascented gear of your choice unless blessrng blesses you, and most if not all legendaries require some gold.

 

I checked, and yes, https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crafting still exists. And precisely zero recipes there or in the https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Forge costs gold (currency, not gold ore/bars) to make. Even the recipes themselves can be bought with event currencies or Karma.

 

Even Legendary Weapon Precursors (the thing you pay a whopping 5 gold to obtain through questing/crafting) are still available through in-game drops. Any Exotic-level gear drop has a (very small) chance of being a Precursor. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Precursor_weapon

Impractical, maybe, but impossible? not at all.

 

> > Which PvP arena or WvW map can you not enter and participate in without paying Gold?

>

> None that ik of but im not familair with an mmo that charges you anything to enter pvp.

 

Correct! Nothing denied by gold here.

 

> > What stories are you denied without Gold to pay for it?

>

> Living world stories u missed? Tho i guess u can also buy with gems (which can be converted to gold)

 

You sure about that? Because https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Living_World has the entire stories verbatim, including videos of some of the scenes. Heck, https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Story_Journal has *all* of the stories available to people who *don't even own the game*. So I ask again, in what way is the story being told, or any of the "vast majority of content", denied to you/us by Gold and the lack thereof?

 

I'll answer for you, as though I haven't already: **It isn't**. With two notable exceptions, there is *no* content in this game, including rewards, that is "locked" behind gold. Quite the opposite, in fact. Making these things available through gold and Trading shortcuts makes them that much *more* accessible.

[zealex.9410]

> @"Trise.2865" said:

> > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > @"Trise.2865" said:

> > > > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > > > @"Knighthonor.4061" said:

> > > > > > @"Erasculio.2914" said:

> > > > > > Just to give an example, we have on the FF XIV reddit a topic named "Guild Wars 2 Refugees coming to FFXIV":

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If you take a look, it's not made by a GW2 hater, or whatever you want to call it; rather, by someone who's frustrated with the current situation of the game, and the lack of any sign that things will get better.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > There's a very interesting topic discussing it on the GW2 reddit:

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > In which, again, the main theme is frustration with ArenaNet's silence about the future of Guild Wars 2.

> > > > >

> > > > > iam reading the top comments on the second link. I am curious, do you all want more grind? Is that the goal? I hate the LW Story as well, but More Grind is not the answer IMO.

> > > >

>

> > I mean, you talk like the game has bo grind while the overwhelming majority of it is locked behind gold.

> > >

> >

> > I meant moreso the rewards but ehh, lets see

> >

> > > I'd like an explanation of this. What areas do you have to pay Gold to enter?

> >

> > None that i can think but theres certainly some that you will get in easier if you invested into somes things (which to an extend cost gold), like gear.

>

> Really? The load times are faster with the right gear? The doors open higher or quicker if your fashion is on point? Come on, now... Maps are freely available to anyone playing the game and you know it.

>

 

You are just being silly.

 

> > > What activities do you need Gold to participate in?

> >

> > Pugging raids and t4 fractals/cm in terms of the entry investment into your gear and buffs foods etc.

>

> So I'm to believe that https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crafting no longer exists? or that https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dessa now charges you gold instead of relics and infusions, and blocks you from entering the Fractals without paying a fee? or that https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Looking_For_Group and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guild systems charge Gold fees to group up? Once again, as you well know, all players are free to join in the content as much as they want. It's the raiders themselves denying players action, and they're *easily* circumvented using these systems.

>

 

Regular crafting is a gold sink, buying the gear from anything but raid vendors requires marks which temselves are gold sink. If lfg was automated anet would put w/e requirement they wanted for whatever piece of content since its player managed each player puts their requirements and alot of them would like you to have asc gear or exotic of the right stats and food/buff which all you buy with gold.

 

> > > What enemies won't fight you unless you pay them Gold?

> >

> > None really but i find that abit weird of a point. Its not gold but full gambits queen's gauntlet bosses eont fight u unless u pay the req currency.

>

> Oh would you look at that? Playing through an event to progress the event, how strange. Still, has nothing to do with gold, does it?

>

 

Iirc you dont get to play queens gauntlet by just playing queen's gauntlet you isntead need the currency which you get from other parts in the festival.

 

> > > What gear can you only obtain with Gold?

> >

> > Ascented gear of your choice unless blessrng blesses you, and most if not all legendaries require some gold.

>

> I checked, and yes, https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crafting still exists. And precisely zero recipes there or in the https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Forge costs gold (currency, not gold ore/bars) to make. Even the recipes themselves can be bought with event currencies or Karma.

>

> Even Legendary Weapon Precursors (the thing you pay a whopping 5 gold to obtain through questing/crafting) are still available through in-game drops. Any Exotic-level gear drop has a (very small) chance of being a Precursor. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Precursor_weapon

> Impractical, maybe, but impossible? not at all.

>

 

I thought the point was to avoid more grind yet you present going around doing stuff with the slight change of a precursor (not even the one you want mind you prob) as a good alternative?

 

Alot of shit translates to gold because gold is the easiest and fastest thing to aquire which mean u spend less time farming to make something.

 

> > > Which PvP arena or WvW map can you not enter and participate in without paying Gold?

> >

> > None that ik of but im not familair with an mmo that charges you anything to enter pvp.

>

> Correct! Nothing denied by gold here.

 

Was there even a point to this one? Does any game not allow you to see its pvp maps?

 

>

> > > What stories are you denied without Gold to pay for it?

> >

> > Living world stories u missed? Tho i guess u can also buy with gems (which can be converted to gold)

>

> You sure about that? Because https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Living_World has the entire stories verbatim, including videos of some of the scenes. Heck, https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Story_Journal has *all* of the stories available to people who *don't even own the game*. So I ask again, in what way is the story being told, or any of the "vast majority of content", denied to you/us by Gold and the lack thereof?

>

 

I thought that going ont he internet to see some gameplay wasnt sufficient, at least thats what ppl told me when i said you can watch raid clears as well as the lore online.

 

But hey u can just watch and read for just about anything on the internet for any game so what aditional grind are you refering to?

 

> I'll answer for you, as though I haven't already: **It isn't**. With two notable exceptions, there is *no* content in this game, including rewards, that is "locked" behind gold. Quite the opposite, in fact. Making these things available through gold and Trading shortcuts makes them that much *more* accessible.

 

Making these things available through gold (which is a kittenton of things) makes the grind less extreme yes, but getting gold in itself is a grind. I said msot things are toed to gold with the mindset that we all understood it to be one of if not the best method to aquire anything in this game.

 

But anyways ill stop here because this deviates from the main point of the thread.

[Acheron.4731]

For the love of Kormir ....all the multi-quotations